Breitling in 2023: Where to Now?
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- #NSOW
For your awareness some things about me and the channel.
I'm an engineer who's into human behavior, loves the ideas behind art and sees watches as a mix of science, craft, art, business, history, technology, philosophy, and psychology. As a result, my videos cover all that ground. (Oh, and I overthink everything).
In my opinion a $15 Casio or a $50 G-Shock are probably the only real tool watches and pretty much everything else is jewelry. So as we are talking about jewelry I think style is substance and I tend to believe history, brand, style, design, execution, and aesthetics are more important than specs. A dull design with a good movement is a dull watch, and an exciting design with an average movement is an exciting watch.
To be clear, I hate the expression "it's just a watch". If you got this far, watches matter to you and represent a bridge between us - dismissing them as unimportant seems wrong and disrespectful. That doesn't mean we can't and don't have fun, it just means we should not be totally mindless of others.
I'm a watch collector and curator - I like my collections to have a theme. My collection has several themes:
1. Vintage Alpina watches
2. Travel watches (GMT. UTC, world timers, home times, dual times)
3. Seiko Prospex dive watches
4. Breitling chronographs
5. Stuff I just really like.
I don't do wrist checks so if you want to see what I'm wearing, my collection, and other random bits of my life check out my Instagram:
@not.so.obvious.watches / not.so.obvious.watches
You can email me at not.so.obvious.watches@gmail.com
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also, my stock images and videos tend to come from either snappa (snappa.com/app) or pexels (www.pexels.com/) - Навчання та стиль
Best luxury watch product & business analysis on UA-cam
thanks - not sure if its true - but thanks.
For me Breitling success comes down to simply making good looking watches that appeal to the masses… You have to admit they all look good in the window… Now can you imagine if their in house movements were thinner?!?! Now that’s when they would break the market!
Nah, people always complain, and those not buying becuase a watch is slightly too thick will gladly find some other reason not to buy.
I see that comment about Breitlings being thick a lot and while thinner is always nice Breitling are already amongst the thinnest in class. The superoceans are under 13mm thick, the Premiers are 13.5mm (auto) or 13mm (manual) thick. You arent getting thinner until you are spending Rolex/JLC money.
I've just watched your Morgan Stanley "World Olympic Wrist Watch Race League" trilogy. I far prefer thoughtful market and brand analysis to "reviews" and hype. So I'm subscribed. Keep it up, please. Great content 👍
Great analysis of one of my favorite brands.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Really like your channel pete. You deserve far more subscribers
I own dive watches from nearly every brand, and I probably enjoy my Breitling’s the most. Breitling design is largely unique and it seems to be a brand that has a lot more fun with their products. Who else makes such different lines as the Emergency, Navitimer, Avenger, etc? Their boutiques are the best in the business. I have eight or ten Rolexes and an equal number of Breitlings, yet am treated like a total stranger at almost all Rolex stores, but at Breitling boutiques am treated like family and always get into great watch conversations with the Breitling employees.
Got to agree my experience with the breitling boutique here in melbourne has been incredible - super friendly, really into the brand, happy to chat and let me play with zero pressure.
Very insightful and interesting video Pete
Glad you think so!
Your take makes sense and for the record I genuinely like Brietling as a brand even if I have never and likely will never own one of their chronographs.
Especially agree that there is room to round out their three-handed range, but when your are 9th in the world you don’t NEED to do anything. You are already successful and crushing most companies.
I do have one area of possible disagreement.
I don’t think watch companies moving in mass up market is some automatic wise. In any market supply can rush past demand.
And if too many companies rush upstream there will be lesson competition in the lower price ranges.
Not everyone wants an in-house 12k watch or a 50k hype piece.
completely agree on your last point, in fact I think Breitling does too, hence a desire not to push much higher, a point George Kern explicity stated in that Hodinkee interview. Another thing that was hinted at was the desire to add a third brand 'under' Breitling in the future ala Tudor for Rolex. That would be an interesting question - what would be a sensible brand for Breitling to buy to be their 'Tudor' - Fortis? Enicar?
Pete, a question at the end of this, I swear. The video opened with the viewer being told the brands turnaround was in part the result of its advertising becoming more diverse, and then we are told the Breitling buyer is males who want large chronographs, which is largely the demographic the prior ham-fisted and embarrassing advertising was directed toward. My question is, could it be simply that removing the clunky and embarrassing advertising is what made it more palatable to its target demographic?
I dont think so:
1. the 'old' demographic really hates this move - go to Breitling forums on places like watchuseek and the moderators and old and bolds of the breitling forum despise george kern and his "woke" agenda and are actively cheering on the failure of the 'new' brand.
2. the demographics of the people Im seeing in the newer online Breitling communities are younger and include a lot of people that previously thought Breitling was a joke brand.
But - while the boundaries of the niche have shifted and expanded a little its still a niche was my point.
The problem with Breitling building up complications on their existing caliber would be exactly what you stated, that the B01 and it's iterations can't really be put into a watch less than 40mm. So from that perspective, Breitling is hamstringing themselves. They really need to develop another smaller caliber in order to be more versatile with their offerings. While there are some good things that Georges Kern has done for the brand, I think some of the direction of the lines has been a bit too unfocused. Who exactly is the Navitimer Automatic/Automatic GMT 41 aimed at? It has no direction and that line is a miss completely. What about the other lines... Are they watches for surfers? Are they watches for pilots who are fans of specific airplanes from 50 -75 years ago? Are they watches for owners of specific car models...AND want a tourbillion?? Are they watches for fans of Victoria Beckham who just so happen to have large wrists capable of wearing a 36mm integrated bracelet watch? Then you have the Avenger line...That atrocity was just someone saying, "let's dumb down the former Chronomat/Avengers, make them more plain, and make one in each pastel color of the spectrum". They still have work to do in my opinion....
Pete, Breitling has some legs left in it, then will Peter out after hitting peak. It will stay in the mid weight division. UG will elevate to the heavyweight div if done right.
Thank you for your time.
Starlight
Very useful analysis Pete. On the role of UG in the “heavyweights” division… I do wonder whether the UG brand can cut it up there
I suspect they'll be a "light heavy weight" so above the middleweights (rolex/omega/cartier), below the true heavyweights (AP/Patek/Vacheron), and in the mix with Blancpain, Breguet, Chopard, GP.
As a watch enthusiast myself and a sales professional I believe Breitling has moved over the first stage and the easiest in terms of what we call house cleaning phase that will sure bring with it the first round of growth , now they need to look deeper if they want this growth to continue, as I own 2 Breitling watches in my collection that I bought over 10years now ( a Navitimer and a super ocean ) which I love both I still doesn't feel the need to add any new one and that for me is the problem with Breitling, I feel that the Breitling catalog while extensive yet still all the watches look like each other and no distinction between each model with the exception of navitimer , all are thick all has chronographs all has the same overall static but named differently , this needs to change and each model should have its own identity and static , Navitimer is known for its chronograph so no need for a simple automatic Navitimer it doesn't make sense and so on
I agree with half of this and am mystified by the other half.
1. I totally agree that the work Breitling has done cleaning up the mess was the 'easier' - or perhaps 'less risky' - phase of renewal, but
2. Im mystified your can look at an avenger, premier, navitimer, top time, chronomat and say they look like each other - I found myself wondering if you've actually seen the new catalog.
3. On being thick - Breitling are already amongst the thinnest in class. The Premiers are 13.5mm (auto) or 13mm (manual) thick. You arent getting thinner until you are spending Rolex/JLC money.
The biggest thing will be a simple in house 3 hander movement, as thin as possible. Then they can raise prices of the cheaper everyday and diver watches, and it doeant even meter if the movement is better than the expensive eta they use. Universal geneve can be pushed to compete with the vacherons and pateks of the world in the elegant and complicated gold watch territory. They are among brands with the most room for growth in that price range
agree - if the new threehander fits in (say) an ETA 2894 'envelope' that would be brilliant. Even thinner would be cool but I worry that would driver brietling prices higher.
In design terms Breitling’s catalogue remains largely historical. Personally, I think it should do more in terms of completely new designs.
In a market where diameters are falling (I know your views on this Pete 😅) I think the lug-to-lug and thickness dimensions of current offerings limits demand from men, unless you have Oisin-sized wrists. It’s smaller offerings are too decidedly feminine…and I see the logic behind the Posh Spice colab, but it needs to do more to raise awareness amongst women.
It has raised SRPs quite a bit in recent years (partly reflected in the mean estimated sale value, which, at least among enthusiasts, has caused some unfavourable comparison with Tudor models featuring the same movements.
So, for me, Breitling has more to do. I wonder how much of a resource distraction UG will be? 🤔. UG has to be got right. Will that mean developments at Breitling will take a back seat as key people are dividing their time between the brands?
First - I dont see anyone outside a small corner of watch social media cross shopping Breitling and Tudor and given the difference in styling are they really aiming at the same customers? Seriously, if you look at a new SuperOcean and say 'I like that' you are going to be bored rigid by Tudors. Most watch buyers actually buy what they like (and can afford) rather than bargain hunt. (Which is why I wonder if Chrisptopher Ward is stuck being an online community niche brand).
That said, I agree on the other two fronts:
1. Drawing from the past is fine but there has to be something new as well - I would love to see them really play with the avenger and professional lines there.
2. I think they need to develop a Rolex OP type watch, something truly unisex. I fear the 'core' Breitling designs are so masculine that 'feminising' them pushes them to far.
As for resourcing? In 6 years Breitling have overhaulled every watch in the catalog except 1 (the Aerospace/Emergency) have completed the development of an inhouse movement (which it scrapped) and then started and is about the finish the development of a second inhouse movement while openning up over 250 boutiques world wide. I dont see resourcing now being much of an issue.
I think the buzz around Tudor is starting to peter out. They seem to be doing a Panerai. I wonder whats next. I'd love for Longines to be polular again among enthusiasts
"they seem to be doing a Panerai" is the most braindead take I've seen this week, and that is saying something
Funny that it would take a French guy, with a German name, to lead a Swiss brand to commercial success.