True Crime, False Morality: True Crime YouTubers Making Money Off Tragedy - Zav Girl and Annie Elise
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Contact Email: mikasfcontent@gmail.com
We are back here to look into the true crime community because once again there have been questionable moral activities, and that is putting it extremely lightly.
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0:00 - Intro
1:08 - Part 1: Zav Girl Patreon Scandal
15:03 - Part 2: Annie Elise Deletes Patreon Post
33:48 - Part 3: Journalistic Practices and True Crime
43:50 - Conclusion - Розваги
True crime became weird for me when I noticed people always doing the perfect victim thing. Talking about victims like they knew them. So weird
YES YES I talked about this in my Eleanor Neale video
For me, having a family member covered by true crime, this would be my worst nightmare of it. Like, fine, tell the story I guess, but don't speak as if you knew my loved ones.
I had a bit of a phase watching the genre and stopped when I noticed that too - and that some creators would describe different victims very similar, making the ploy to gather sympathy and ramp up the tragedy more obvious.
Now the only True Crime I watch is Sneeg Snag ("Crime Time"), he focuses on the police interviews and has interesting insights into the police system and psychology of the murderers while being respectful of the victims and their families.
@lagggoat7170 The channels focusing on police interviews and the court proceedings are what got me back into it. But I don't really consider those true crime exactly.
It’s very weird and creepy
"maybe all instances of someone's burtal demise aren't up for your pockets to get lined" BARS GIRL ABSOLUTE BARS!
As per Emily D. Baker, who used to be a prosecutor in California, you can request records here. HOWEVER, autopsy photos should have been "sealed" meaning that those aren't allowed to be requested. As per her, it doesn't make any sense how the UA-camr received them, she believes it was a mistake. I feel so bad for Gannon and his family. Still being tortured after all those years.
Hey Lawnerd! Was just gonna say that. Hope your having a great weekend!
I can't believe people are still watching her
She blamed Breonna Taylor for being k1lled and haven't looked her way since
@@MylingCyrus she also said stuff like trump's 2020 election voting fraud claims have merit? she also victim blamed meg thee stallion. emily d baker is a republican who in 2006 said she run for in one of elecitons and said she wants to turn california into a red state. and later on she moved to a red state hmm. also ex mlm hun (arbonne), someone who openly admitted covering johnny depp trial brought them more money than their old district attorney job. and she was so blatant about whose "side" she is on. i remember when she even defended lizzie holmes, how 'she probably had good intentions and tried to change medicine' or when erika jayne and her husband got exposed for fraud and embezzling money fron victims, she kept defending her for a whiiile. strange
emily d baker is not your friend
she didn't, stop spreading misinformation @@MylingCyrus
@@MylingCyrus She did WHAT
I really want to see someone sensationalize tax fraud. I was so engrossed with Fyre fest documentaries when they were coming out. I would feel so good about true crime as a genre if it focused on people being stinky lil scammers instead of people being violent.
Yes! White collar crime or “silly” crimes like the guy who cheated on who wants to be a millionaire is the best kind of true crime to me as (usually) nobody dies. I feel weird and sad when I listen to true crime where they’re talking about horrific things happening to people. It’s not even their story to tell. I like podcasts like American Greed (nothing but white collar crime), Pretend, Swindled and The Perfect Scam. I still think it’s a little weird if I think about it too deeply but it’s interesting and doesn’t do the thing where they idolise a victim they haven’t met.
There are a few great books out there on Enron if you’re interested. I feel like I learned so much about what bad business decisions look like 😂.
Sounds like MLM videos
Coffeezilla is a pretty good one for that white-collar stuff. And _Behind the Bastards_ covers all sorts of bastards, with minimal details about specific crimes, especially the visceral stuff.
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens I was about to bring up Coffeezilla! He is great and especially with Crypto/NFTs there are so many unhinged assholes to talk about.
I also dislike in the true crime community how people brag about being desensitised to it all
yeah, they act like that's a good thing. like bro, you being strip of the empathy is not a flex
@@jjj4n4 And then, to add further insult, these people who brag about being desensitised demonise anyone with mental health issues or lower empathy.
Like ??????????
@@elvingearmasterirma7241They probably have similarities to the killers they talk about, but god forbid you criticize them for their ethics
Annie Elise promoting the Sound of Freedom movie in a community post always rubbed me the wrong way, apparently entirely missing the Q-Anon rhetoric in that film
I’ve always gotten right wing vibes from her so I’m not surprised she was supporting that movie.
I unsubbed from her when I saw that. I can't take anyone seriously if they promote that movie.
@@AC-ff1cn I don’t think I ever actually subbed to her but I watched some of her videos and made a point to completely stop watching when I saw that.
Oh she did😂?
Oh she didn't miss it
when i was 11, my sister's old friend went missing. weeks later it turned out her "boyfriend" stabbed her to death because she was 16 and pregnant. he planned the whole thing, even parked his car in a way it was easier to load the body, and drove around with her in the trunk for hours, had other people in the car, they had no idea. he even was on tv asking her to 'come back home'. the only reason the case got solved is he fucked up while tying a weight to her body. so when he dumped her in a lake the body floated to the surface just days before the lake was supposed to get filled with gravel and leveled down. the guy was 5-6 years older, was the girl's skiing instructor, groomed her all while having a whole fiancee his age he was supposed to get married to. he was a product of his enviorment, rich guy with nothint going on whose parents painted as a prodigal son, sent him to best private schools and what. upper middle class folks in my city were upset anyone would bring up the guy was one of them.
the case is still heavily talked about in polish true crime circles. i made a mistake and listened to one of those videos. not only the comments were fullt blaming a MINOR, hardly condemning her killer but also totally glossed over that her and his parents were weirdly okay with a 14 year old dating a 20 year old. even if age of consent here is 15 it's still ???
not to mention the youtuber plagiarized various journalists, lifiting whole sentences. when i pointed it out in comments, said youtuber jumped on me how 'i have a google doc with sources linked!' so what if you're not able to form an Independent Sentence and dont disclose in the video whose articles you used? people think you're the one putting in work, you're the one with literary skill when you're just reading out shit in a dramatic voice.
Oh my god I am so sorry for your sister’s friend! That is disgusting and insensitive that they would blame her and use her story for views and money! Victims don’t get any kind of respect in the true crime community and it is not ok!
As a forensics student, profiting off of sensationalizing horrific deaths is disgusting. Putting a child's autopsy photos behind a paywall for your fans to see? Borderline evil. It isn't helping anyone. The families and loved ones of victims have been through enough. They should be allowed to grieve and live in peace.
I know and now there is a whole new thing for victims’ families to be scared of
Also I want to comment on how true crime has evolved to become desensitized, I feel as though it started out with people talking about super old cases such as Jack the Ripper and black dahlia murder, but once they’ve been covered they started getting more recent and recent because they ran out of content
so real like i loved buzzfeed unsolved because the cases were so old it was interesting but it’s like… i don’t want to know about people who’s families are still alive!! they’re literally still living in the feeling of losing their loved one why do they need millions of strangers opinions?
As someone with a brother who was m*rdered. It’s so appalling seeing videos after videos of peoples most tragic horrible things that ever happened to them be used as entertainment. It’s so frustrating and worrying that my brother’s case could be a video at some point. 😿
I'm so sorry for your loss❤
I wish it were the law that you have to check with survivors of the deceased to make sure they consent to coverage of these cases. I hope you never see a video about him.
i am so sorry❤😢
My condolences
I’m so glad to see someone FINALLY calling attention to Anne Elise for also profiting from a child’s death. I thought it was sort of unbelievable how she got away with it
There’s no amount of money you could pay me to exploit a child’s murder, let alone provide the gruesome crime scene photos. I don’t understand why people like true crime so much… like, what joy comes from hearing about a total stranger’s haunting death??
many claim its for awareness or people (especially women) can spot warning signs but its like… how is graphic descriptions of these unfortunate people’s deaths on top of dramatized Spoooooky music, outrageous “surprised” clickbait thumbnails and god forbid The Makeup Brigade beneficial? what is there to gain from that other than an unhealthy obsession with other people’s misfortune? especially with recent cases. it honestly is a red flag to me
It's literally human nature to be curious.
Why do you think horror stories are so popular?
we LOVE being scared / hearing creepy shit.
I love true crime. The misery machine focuses on child cases, and it's very informative
(I'm autistic and I can't help what my brain finds interesting and what it hyperfixates on, ive been interested in stuff like this since i was a young child
Same, i tried a podcast when it first got super popular, and i just couldn't get over how weird it was to hear two people chatting about a murder? It felt like two friends recapping their favourite show or something. I don't like watching documentaries on the subject either, but at least they try to be a bit more factual and less "this is fun!". It weirded me out and i was anxious for days after listening to only a third of the thing...
@@Thebeezzkneezz. look, I get the horror genre! I get the fascination of exploring these parts of humanity in fiction, even when it’s not monster gore and set in reality “based on a true story” because it’s centered around entertainment. It’s just that the abundance of true crime isn’t fictionalizing for entertainment, it’s SENSATIONALIZING reality for their own profit that bugs me. Most these shows aren’t at all for “public awareness”, it’s for profiting off of human curiosity.
It’s rise has absolutely IMO contributed to the mistrust and paranoia in some people, they’ve fixated on the idea these horrific murders are very common place and lurking around every corner and someone IS out to get them. They’re filling their minds with fear without a broader understanding of crimes like these. I’m not saying they don’t happen and people shouldn’t be aware, I’m just saying everyone doesn’t have a neighbor or relative that’s a serial killer (which is what the true crime genre would lead people to believe)!
Annie Elise has annoyed me ever since the time where she had a red flag prop that she would wave around when talking about some case where there were warning signs/red flags. This was around the time of the Gabby Petito case and she was talking about a DV situation if I recall correctly... So inappropriate.🙄
Yes it’s giving victim blaming for sure
All of this PLUS it was a child. How many sickos paid $1 to see those horrible images for their own pleasure?? Absolutely disgusting
ooh i've been waiting for this one. used to consume true crime obsessively but when all of those channels decided they loved johnny depp i realised they were nowhere near as well researched as they said they were. even before that I'd stopped watching a lot of channels because victims families had come out and said they were spreading misinformation.
Ooo yes 🙌 don’t get me started on how triggered I was when everyone got on the Depp bandwagon 😡
God, seriously. That whole debacle just brought out the absolute worst in those channels. Over a civil trial, of all things. I also blame the judge for allowing it to be televised.
yeah it was insane. i stopped like 2 years ago when i was 19. i realised it was majorly messed up to be making money off tragedy while putting your makeup on or literally doing mukbangs. stephanie soo ? and uh, bailey sarian? odd..odd…..and messed up
I'm a HUGE true crime watcher. It gives me a false sense of control as a South African non-men in a country with intense rape culture and femicide. Like the gender-based violence is here is grim at times. HOWEVER, I think this video has woken me up to a point I was in denial about. The fact that true crime content creators lack constraint. And I'm glad you brought up a tangible person like Annie Elise. I once watched one of her videos about to teenagers that got killed for breaking into an old man's house. The case wasn't really jarring or anything. BUT the old man had gotten so paranoid about having his place constantly robbed that he installed recordings around the place. Not sure if he put cameras too. I was watching the case, then out of the blue, Annie starts playing the recordings of this man shooting the teenagers. I was shook bruh! You hear the death rattle of the boy teenager. And the girl comes in afterwards, gets shot. Then the old man comes closer to her and you can here her beg "No no no no..." before she gets shot a final time. I've been in denial about how hearing that affected me fr fr. 😱
I picked up full contact martial arts. Its uh, definitely a healthier way to get that feeling of control. Much better for your mental health too.
Good exercise, you learn how to think fast and not panic under pressure or when in a physical confrontation.
You learn to take hits and how to give them back etc.
I highly suggest it. Just be sure to check theyre certified and connected to proper organisations.
Thank you for talking about this. I’ve had a one sided beef with a true crime UA-camr, Stephanie Harlowe. It’s so disturbing how she grandstands herself, saying these stories NEED to be told, she’s doing it FOR the victims blah blah and then cut to her smiling happy face talking about her favorite scents of deodorant. Dystopian is the perfect word for it. The most frustrating part about her content is how high and mighty she presents herself.
Omg i thought i was the only one with onesided beef with stephanie 😭😭😭 i used to watch her content alot years ago because i liked that it was longform content but the way she started to integrate sponsorships and talk about people from cases that hadnt been solved yet or closed rubbed me the wrong way so BADDDDD 😭
I'm on your side with that. She was one of the first True Crime people I watched and it didn't last very long. Though most of it had to do with her being boring in her delivery, and not in an "I'm speaking with no emotion for ethics", just regular boring.
yeah i used to watch her, and still rarely do, but it really rubs me wrong how strong her opinions are of people and situations she doesn't really know about. talking about how somebody's vile and horrible and evil when the case hasn't even been solved/the person hasn't been proven guilty.
I used to watch Stephanie months ago but she just became unwatchable. She is so condescending, thinks she's always right, acts like the smartest person in the room, victim blames, she does/did clap backs on Twitter when she's in her 40s now acting like a teenager. She seems very paranoid too.
She did the Britnee Drexel case on her podcast, she mentioned going to the same high school as Britnee did after her disappearance. Stephanie is older than Britnee, when people pointed that out she had a melt down!! "I didn't want people to figure out my real name, how dare you focus on this and not on the victim!!" Bro you inserted yourself into the case, you made this about yourself. Also did you forget that people know your age?
She is the most victim shaming person I have ever heard. I can't handle her.
Kendall rae one time instead of putting the picture of the victim put the picture of the girl that took a selfie at auschwitz because they had the same name, and I got a bad taste in my mouth for true crime youtubers since then
Oh hate this
🫢
The way I thought the Annie Elise intro was a parody at first tells me everything I needed to know about that channel tbh
You should look into Dreading. He made a video on Aaron Hernandez and at the end of the video, he mocks his suicide notes that were clearly written in a mentally unstable state. Dreading had literally just explained that Aaron was found to have suffered from the worst case of CTE to date. And he spent 5 minutes mocking the last words to his child, wife, and best friend. It was disgusting.
Oh my god, i can't even imagine what makes some people feel so disconnected from other's pain that they'd mock something like that.
I'm sorry to ask but what is CTE?
@@Biancaleigh693basically excessive brain trauma. He played football I believe.
@@GhoulishGrime oh thank you
I used to think content like dreadings and jcs was good (it mainly just analyses police interviews or perp confessions). But in reality most of the cases they look at are people who are marginalised, people who can’t afford a lawyer, who haven’t been given a fair trial in a lot of cases. And these UA-camrs aren’t helping. They just see everything in black and white. People are either all good or all bad when it comes to the internet. So if you are a bad person in their eyes, well, then you are most likely a murderer. So yeah I’m done with all of them.
annie elise would make a video about ongoing criminal case and at the end she would go 'oh here are winners of my iphone giveaway!' or mobile game ad 💀
🥴
The way both so many true crime viewers and creators are so desensitized is frankly disturbing. I used to be really into true crime and desensitized but then I stopped playing these videos as background noise and actually listened to the story I would almost have a panic attack. I realized that it's not normal to be so used to such graphic violence and disregard for the victims and their families. So many people just have to watch murder mysteries instead of giving money to people who sensationalize REAL CASES
The other thing about "I put it behind a paywall to discourage inappropriate distribution of the pictures!" is that putting the photos behind a paywall that anyone with the money can access *is an inappropriate distribution of the pictures*.
The excuse that true crime content is "empowering women" is starting to really run thin. Like damn, some of these content creators and their fans are starting to do much more harm than any *perceived* good. It doesn't need to be said again that a lot of victims of unsolved crimes tend to *not* be the over-represented pretty, white, cis/straight middle/upper class "perfect and unproblematic" women and girls; it begs to questions how can we give more coverage to underrepresented missing/murdered people WITHOUT sensationalizing their case *and* potentially compromising forensics evidence and endangering other people (physically and emotionally)??). Not going to rail on people for having morbid curiosity and wanting to learn more about cases but like you said, you have to weed through a lot of bad/problematic content before getting to good/neutral just-the-facts content. For me, I listen to stuff that doesn't center the creator, because honestly - when I started seeing that Bailey Sarian channel hit the scene, I kinda noticed that true crime was turning more into an avenue for "meh" MUAs to generate more views rather than dishing out the same makeup tutorial and brand deals over and over again.
Honestly saying all that is why I consume even less than I did before. 🫠
What? People actually say it's 'empowering'?
I used to consume a lot of true crime content, it definitely began from my criminal justice/psych double major. However, one of my family members committed a really horrible crime and the emotional rollercoaster completely changed my perspective. I hate that that’s what it took to open my eyes, I wish I had been empathetic enough to realize earlier. But knowing the horrible things my family member did to other people and how their families are impacted made me so sick. Not to mention how our world was rocked. The thought of someone treating it as entertainment is horrifying.
I wonder if any of the families have ever sued these youtubers
Annie Elise always have me the Vik but I didn’t know if I was being too sensitive. I remember one time she segued a hello fresh ad read into her video after she had said the mother of a victim lost her appetite after she saw her son or something. My jaw dropped but no one commented on it.
STOOOP
One of the biggest eye openers for me and my decision to lessen/stop my true crime consumption was a specific explore with us (EWU) video where the creators acted SO entitled to information from family members of an unsolved case. the way they presented the family's reluctance to talk to these UA-camrs made it sound like the family of the victim was to blame or acting suspicious. it just really rubbed me the wrong way how entitled some of these people act when it comes to real people's lives. I was already pretty particular about what true crime content I consumed but for me that was a big moment where I was like damn. ew. anyways great video! I wish more people could realize how unethical and inappropriate the true crime community is lol.
Zav girl saying that " I didn't post it on UA-cam even though I could've made even MORE money" Is really....
I think that one side of true crime content that is extremely beneficial is it’s role in raising awareness and seeking justice for victims. So many families are desperate to get eyes on cases involving their loved ones and sometimes true crime content creators are the best way to do that, esp when police start pulling back on resources and turn their attention to other cases. Channels that focus on victims and involve the families and help raise funds for them are important in my opinion and I respect them a lot. Getting a massive audience to hear about a case can actually make change happen, the public pressure and all. The people who take advantage of our morbid curiosity and go for shock value without giving af abt the truth and what is in the best interest of those affected because they know it’s profitable should not be making sensitive content. Absolutely vile. Sorry long comment I have so many thoughts! Love ur videos
I was assaulted and will never receive justice. I like to head cases to give the victims/survivors a moment of my time, as no one took any time to help/protect me. I’m trying to not consume it as much, and mostly watching things for awareness and whatnot.
Yes, I like videos by ethical creators that make sure the families/survivors consent to a retelling of their life and less on tragic ending.
@@Who-en2vo yes. Certain cases do need awareness as people could be in that same position, and it could be their sign to leave. But some other cases are so horrific and I don’t even know why you would want to research it? For hours, all of the gruesome details. Interesting to say the least.
I’m a consumer of a lot of true crime content, and there are ways of telling the stories without sensationalizing them.
I just feel like people know that won’t get the popularity like that and choose to be unethical instead
nope!
If there’s one potential silver lining to those autopsy photos being released, it’s that the dad of the child is now trying to get legislation passed to prevent that from happening again. So hopefully something good comes from this so another family doesn’t have to go through that. I do consume a lot of true crime content, but I’m very choosy as to who I watch. Neither of the main parties you spoke about are people I care to watch at all. As someone who watches true crime content but am critical of how it’s made and delivered, I appreciate your video. I’ve only recently found your channel and I really like how thorough you are in terms of research and preparing some scripting and all that. Take care!
Critiquing the true crime community is always welcomed on account of how some of these people disregard the victims so thoughtlessly for money. Great video, as always goooorl, it's always a treat to see you upload more content ❤🎉
i used to watch a lot of true crime but after a while i did notice that, like you said, you have to sift through so many bad creators to get to the respectful ones. there are two that i still follow that, as far as i know, haven't been careless or flippant, but ive learned to withhold all my trust.
I really am glad people are speaking about this. I had a very close friend of mine brutally murdered, and his story was exploited on the breakfast club. It was so insensitive the way his murder was described. However, concerning UA-camrs who discuss true crime, I watch only two, of whom are sensitive the way they describe the situations and focus solely on the victims and getting awareness and how to navigate safety, to hopefully avoid any situations they discuss. I hope this video is viewed more, and we see more about it. Also, if you watch or listen to, Do we Know Them? They talk about this as well, and how there are UA-camrs who are very insensitive to who or what they talk about.
I'm so sorry for your loss and seeing your friend exploited like that. I can't even imagine.
Thank you for this. I’ve been saying for years that creators like Bailey sarian are not ethical at all and are highly inappropriate. Serving on a jury in a murder trial changed how I see these things completely.
I used to consume a lot of true crime, via podcasts and youtube and netflix, and I realized after a while it was making my depression worse and I started to move away from it and remember that these were real people who didn't deserve what happened to them. I wasn't going to get answers why these crimes had happened, there was really nothing to get from it. And now it makes me uncomfortable seeing how far people will go to know something they weren't even meant to know in the first place. Especially at the expense of the victims friends and family.
I am a true crime....consumer...(lover just feels wrong to say lol). And I get what you are saying. It is hard to find a youtuber or podcast that is informative, educational but not exploitative or crass. I have like one or 2 that I listen to and I am always super hesitant to try anything new.
on the topic of “true crime” you should definitely cover plagued moth, there’s a lot of really messed up stuff going on with the ethics of covering tc/g*re on UA-cam and the monetization of selling g*re off the platform, this reminded me a lot of it and I don’t see many sizable creators really discussing it but lazybedhead made a really good 2 part in depth videos on it!
i am a true crime content watcher and i have been one of those people that did have to sit back and examine what i was watching and the way it's presented. there's true crime creators that i cut out because of their presentation of their videos... i do like kendal rae's videos a good bit because she contacts the families, involves them in videos, pushes her viewers to be active in pushing cases for justice and it's been so vital in helping some cases.
overall ive noticed people who primarily cover closed/solved cases can be the ones who lean into dramatization. i stopped watching multiple people because i realized they were making it comfortable to consume and that, for me, is not what i see as the point of true crime it SHOULD remain uncomfortable hearing about murder and violence
Something similar happened to me. I used to watch TC thoughtlessly until something clicked in my brain.
I started by watching "Forensic Files" on TV as a kid and shifted to UA-camrs afterwards. Interestingly enough, the first thing that made me think that something was not right was not the content creators themselves, but the comments. I mean, comments like "Yay! Another video on time to [insert house chore]!" or "Oh no, I prefer solved cases because I need closure"... Made my skin crawl and I wondered if I was consuming this kind of content as mindlessly as these commenters 😬
Kendal is the only one I trust
Kendall lost me after her promoting Graham Hancock on her podcast... in early days of Mile Higher they would be super irresponsible while discussing conspiracy theories
she doesn't always contact families though and profits off many stories the families never consented to. You should reexamine why you're okay with watching this stuff.
16:31 that Zachary Michael "bar 👋"
😅
YUP
omg wait i’m surprised i watch annie elise but i don’t keep up with her so i’m shocked thank you for bringing it to our attention
For me is surreal that any random person could just request and get court documents when they have no relation to said case. Usually in those documents would be very personal information that, as you mentioned, can lead to doxxig.
Also making public any info about the victims without the consideration for the family is something so vile I could never even think someone would do it and mask it as something educational as the true crime channels often do.
So many more creators covered the Annie Elise problem than you mentioned, I wanted that to be clear. The viewers didn't see it as severe as Zav Girl and gave her a pass. I disagreed and unsubed. Something I noticed but I could be wrong is right before all this came out, Annie became a partner at Law and Crime Network. Law and Crime was replaying her previous videos, since she was exposed I've seen none of her videos on Law and Crime. They may have broken ties with her, but I'm not a researcher, but interesting.
Idk if it’s my algorithm but most of then Annie Elise videos are buried I looked for a while and had to resort to the two that were sent directly to me
I used to like true crime. It took until the day that I really thought about the fact that these channels are eagerly watching crimes unfold in the media, knowing they'll have more content to put out because of something horrible. That changed my outlook on things. Additionally, I felt like it was having a negative effect on my mental health.
I got into them during the pandemic. Now that we're allowed outside again I'm doing a lot better and I don't need to consume that kind of content.
Oh absolutely
The media we consume influences how we think and how we view the world. And it can absolutely impact our mental health
We are not meant to be bombarded with death and pain 24/7 (or too much information of any kind)
We need joy and fun and being outside too
I’m not gonna get into what happened to me but I think true crime genre is GROSS and I think most (if not almost all) ppl who watch it and get their “kicks” out of it haven’t experienced it IRL or to someone very close to them. Easy to romanticize something you think would never happen to you.
Sorry if tmi but i just wanted to let you know. Your videos really help me out mentally. Currently in withdrawals trying to get sober, haven’t been able to find videos i enjoy that distract me / keep me engaged / get me to learn things like yours.
Truly thank you for what you do, i seriously am very grateful to watch your videos. You rock
That’s so touching to hear and really makes this all worth it for me 🥰🥰🥰 - I hope things get easier for you over time
THANK YOU I feel like it's such a controversial take to be against True Crime content. I'm so deeply against it but I can never say it out loud
i thought i was losing my marbles about how i’ve been feeling about annie particularly after the teen in the water after a party thing. like accusing literal teens of murder
Something I haven't seen people bring up with this situation yet is the fact that the channel PlaguedMoth was doing the same thing with gore videos and just generally being super disrespectful about them
did he stop doing that? it’s wild you can just give out links to gore on here and make money…
@@toiletfrog Another youtuber named that creepy reading called him out about it and got his patreon taken down, then PM basically claimed he was lying even though the evidence was there clear as day
@@orsonb203 he claimed he was lying about paywalling gore? Or claimed that the other youtuber is lying? Bc he pretty clearly states what’s on his patreon …
@@toiletfrog if you watch the TCR vids he explains what went down, lazy bedhead has also made vids
@@orsonb203 thanks!
I used to be an avid true crime and Annie Elise watcher, but over time started feeling more and more uncomfortable with the sensationalization of horrid crimes. Consuming hours of videos talking about the worst in humanity is not good for anyone’s mental health and I fear what it is doing to the creators. Your video put a lot of my feelings into words and really helped me realize how much is truly wrong with the genre. Thank you!
Zoinks this is a harsh topic, but needed. Thanks Mika, it's hard to watch but needed. Between this and Ruby Franke in the news lately I need a break from hearing about kids in these situations, but it's nice to hear your take and feel validated in my own feelings
I watch a documentary on netflix of a husband who kill his wife and two daughters, after that I was so traumatise and couldn't stop thinking about it, I really don't know how watchers can consume true crime as content regulary. As far as the youtubers, podcaster or people who make documentaries or series or movies of true crime is so wrong to profit of someone tragedy and use their plataform so even more strangers know about this tragedy, I feel so bad for the families and love ones that the case of someone murdered is talk about and profit. Thank you for this video.
I have always consumed true crime content, since I was definitely way too young to be doing so. I grew up watching various documentaries, forensic files, cold case files, that kind of thing. I remember when My Favorite Murder first came out, and I really enjoyed it at first. And then truecrime podcasts absolutely exploded and there were just so many. And I watched it start to get more and more popular on youtube but always felt off about most of the true content on here. As it grew into and was being treated as a "fandom" I took several steps back. I fully understand having an interest in true crime, but there was a definite shift in how people consumed and treated the content.
I still read true crime books. Mostly ones written by victims/survivors of something or written by like a lawyer or detective involved in a case.
This is the first I’m hearing of Canadian journalistic standards. I wish the states would follow your example so much.
Many US journalists are amazing, they are the one thing and the only thing keeping us free and keeping Democracy alive. There is a propaganda campaign to discredit ALL journalists. If you have had bad luck with finding a good journalist that meets your criteria, keep looking, they are out there.
okay but the "true crime" (get it) is Gus jumping on squishgang
FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY! Someone is seriously critiquing true crime! As a criminologist, I can not with this…
I am definitely on-off about true crime. Sometimes I'm avidly into it, and sometimes I'm put off. It is definitely a weird thing to like.
I could never place exactly WHY I disliked the true crime community. And you've succinctly put into words exactly why I dislike that community so fucking much. Thank you so much for your time and effort, appreciate you and your videos as always! NGL, it sure as shit feels like most True Crime YTers like the tragedy porn. Considering they constantly don't consider the families, the victims, the innocents that are horribly devastated in these instances. TC Community is just content to make money off their pain and that's a little gross, imo.
One thing I haven’t heard anyone mention in defense of true crime content is that a lot of cases are still unsolved because the police just don’t care. A lot of cases Kendall talks about involve something happening to someone, the family goes to the police, and they’re just like ah it’s fine, she’s a teenager she just ran away. And first of all, what? Even if that was the case, you’re not gonna do your job and find this actual minor? That’s just one example from a case Kendall covered but there’s so many other cases like that. So with cases like that where the police just refuse to help families, I think those are really important to talk about and something Kendall does a lot is put tweets and emails in the description for people to copy and paste and add their name to it to send to the authorities so that they’ll actually take it seriously and put the work in to solve the case and get some form of justice for these victims and their families
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HONEST CRITIQUE OF ANNIE ELISE.
i am a . . . selective, discerning True Crime viewer (lol i am aware how pompous and pretentious that sounds). i am obsessively fascinated with criminal psychopathy, but cannot stand 99% of CrimeTubers because their delivery just disgusts me. i hate when amateur TC creators make themselves the main character of their content. Annie Elise, That Chapter, and Danielle Kirsty are particularly heinous examples - honestly, Swoop is guilty of this too if we’re keeping it 💯. i have unsubbed from almost all CrimeTubers i used to follow because there’s so much ego, performance, and personal branding infused into their videos. these days i stick to mainstream journalism outlets like Law & Crime Network, who hold themselves to higher broadcast standards. the few indie creators i still follow are more research-focused and/or have a very dry, fact-driven delivery, sans the shocked faces, dramatic gasps, and emotional exclamations of outrage. 😒
When I heard "UA-camr sells child autopsy photos," I was bewildered about how someone thought that was okay; but when I learned more about the details of what happened, I could see the mental gymnastics routine that she did to get to this very wrong decision. This video was helpful for that, so thank you.
Edit: And I hadn't even heard of the second person who put up crime scene photos behind a paywall! Wow.
I agree with you 100% and it always bugged me how females get into this space and act like its to know what to look out for but judge strangers for what their partners and family members who are likely to do heinous acts towards them
I never bought this idea that women watch true crime to learn self defense. :/ Sure there is sort of a side effect like that, but I am part of this demographic and had been actively following this community for a relatively long time and what see is people consume for the storytelling like they want some background noise that also has a narrative and there is an element of gossip and speculation, but that's all.
“Females” just say women. We have a word for female humans. Use it please.
@@Moony1568 smh I'm not the one who plays the pronoun game on UA-cam especially when words share the same meaning, now unless you are paying me half a million dollars, I would appreciate it if you didn't give me unsolicited advice
I want to hear about the Annie Elise thing because I actually like her videos. I’ll update with my thoughts at the end of the video. Thank you for all you do ❤
🥹🩷
@@MikasRhetoricupdate: I’m surprised but I agree with you. I’ve watched almost all of her videos (except the Idaho and Petito cases because i felt they were insensitive and coming out too fast with not enough information). I didn’t know about the recent issues with her doing this behind her paywall. I have a lot to consider and think about, I need to look at the true crime creators I do watch a littler more closely because it is NOT okay to do that. I’m the community they always preach how the worst crimes are crimes against children. How do these actions not re victimize them?
The Petito stuff was really when I stopped consuming true crime. I also thought content was coming out way too fast for the information
@@Adrian-gk5vsthe Idaho one really dropped the ball for me. She literally had someone who was working on the case send her "exclusive evidence" and read it off her message as if she might not have ruined the potential evidence in solving the case.
One thing I will say, is at the freedom of information act is incredibly crucial for a well functioning judicial system.
The freedom of information act has been used by activist groups in order to overturn court cases and help wrongfully convicted people prove their innocence. The freedom of information act also allows for people to have some form of insight on how the police are acting and handling cases. It allows for a level of transparency, and being subject to scrutiny can act as a deterrent for wrongful actions by the police.
This transparency is one of the only forms we have too have insight into the judicial system. It doesn’t work perfectly, but it’s better than nothing.
Another awesome video, Mika. I always admire how articulate and respectful you are in videos even when calling people out for the crazy fucked up shit they've done lol. I always enjoy hearing what you have to say about any situation.
As someone who consumes a good deal of true crime content, I 100% agree with the dystopia it's devolved into. The videos of people doing makeup and talking about these cases have always made me super uncomfortable. unless they were talking about like. Idk. Jack the ripper or something just so far removed from modern time. People from 10000 years ago are still people, and their deaths and such are still very serious matters, but when it's just so long ago it feels more like consuming historical content as opposed to "true crime" (in the way we know it now).
I read another comment on this video mentioning they were consuming this kind of media mindlessly and they had to step back at who they were watching, how they presented it, and how they would consume it, and i feel like that's a place where people who regularly consume true crime content always end up. The channels that make it feel so comfortable that you just leave these cases about real people and their real suffering on in the background while not really paying attention to what's really being said are a huge problem for me now. (ie, doing their makeup whole talking about horrific crimes, even if they are respectful in their words, it just feels so dismissive). There used to be a couple I watched and when I, too, had the "I should be way more mindful when listening to these stories," those kinds of channels were the first to to for me. Now if I'm watching a video and I feel my attention dwindling, I watch something else and come back to it later because the victims deserve to have their story listened to. I feel like that's the main point of true crime but we've completely lost the plot at this point.
I find it hard to believe she could have “made so much more money posting the autopsy on UA-cam” (as if we should be impressed?) because true crime is notoriously hard to monetize on UA-cam. As much as I like to support my favorite creators (and I do watch true crime) I’m a little shocked that anyone would spend money on content like that
I’m glad you are talking about it. I used to watch Annie Elise a lot but there’s a few times that she’s really put a bad taste in my mouth with her content. Specifically, her choices of words and posting videos too quickly after information about a case comes out and feeling the need to jump on this for views. She did this with the Gabi petito case. She also tends to speculate a lot about aspects of the crimes rather than sticking to facts and verified information. And it’ll be so casual talking about motives for m*rdering someone. Like it feels so inappropriately nonchalant. Also, there was one time she posted a video where she did an ad read at the start and someone else commented about her doing the ad read before even saying the victims names and idk that really resonated with me. It is so gross to talk about someone’s last moments and then start talking about hello fresh in the middle of the video. Furthermore, It sucks to make the perpetrators the centre of the videos instead of the victims. And again, some families don’t even want their family members talked about after their death and their personal information put on the internet. It also needs to be highly considered. I feel like that doesn’t happen with true crime UA-camrs a lot of the time.
I had no idea she was selling photos behind a pay wall. Gross.
The only true crime person I will ever really recommend is Kendall Rae. Not just for her compassion in how she covers cases but she is the only creator I know who is frequently reached out to by family of victims who are usually featured in videos. Hearing family members talking about the case and their loved ones who have passed adds much needed humanity to true crime. There are of course criticisms you can make of Kendal because of the nature of what her channel is about, but of the genre I think she is the gold standard of what this should be if this type of media is to exist. If i were to think of a criticism, my first would be she should crack down more on comments that are just wild speculation about cases. That’s never helpful for anyone involved. I hesitate to say this type of media should not exist at all; I know for certain cases, having the public be aware of the crime can really help in getting the cases solved and taken seriously by investigators. Plus one of the biggest things I’ve learned through true crime is how f-ed up the justice system is. From cops to judges. Stories of cops being negligent and lazy or cases where judges convict someone with almost no evidence need to be exposed. The line for me seems to be knowing who this media is benefiting. And a lot of the time, unfortunately, it’s not the victim or their family. Even highly produced documentaries, I’ve found can be easily full of misinfo or misrepresentations of facts. The tiger king docu-series comes to mind. Absolutely awful. If you’re gonna consume true crime content you need to be extra discerning and diligent.
Thank you so much for talking about this. I can't believe she charges for gore photos on her Patreon.
And it’s not even content that she owns of that makes sense, so even charging for that in the first place is so wild despite the context
As someone who’s been violently attacked three times to the point I’m left with complex-PTSD, I 100% agree. I’m lucky to be alive and it sickens me to think if I hadn’t had made it through, there’d potentially be people profiting off my demise. My sister loves true crime and I constantly have to remind her if I hadn’t have survived the violence I was subjected too, there could well be people not just making profit from her sisters death, but from her own pain too. It seems everyone loves true crime lately so as the survivor of or violent crime, you don’t how refreshing it is for me to come across this video. I’ll definitely be giving your channel a sub, currently I’m recovering from a massive seizure which was bought on by the head injuries sustained from the violence I was subjected too. I was looking for new UA-camrs to watch whilst I recover and randomly came across your channel I’ve watched a few of your other videos and I’m very impressed. Looking forward to binge watching your channel this weekend, You’ve got a wise head on your shoulders and you know your stuff - sending much respect from the UK 😊
Glad to be here early! I used to watch ID too young but some of the new stuff makes me feel icky
Preach Mika. This is dystopian.
You nailed this, as usual! You’ve got some of the best takes on this app I swear ❤
Honestly the only true crime I can comfortably watch now is Watcher (Ryan and Shane for the win)
and the lights out podcast, both are respectful, they don’t act like they knew the victims and the don’t sensationalise the criminals/persecuted.
I used to watch a lot more but when I get ‘RAID SHADOW LEGENDS’ shouted randomly after being told about a victim found in a literal bin, I dipped out. Some people are so disrespectful :((
So happy to see Annie Elise in the thumbnail. Thanks for talking about this. Cheers!
edit: I think Annie has editors and writers, so she is just reading scripts at this point. Also! She promoted Sound of Freedom without saying it was sensentionalized. It was a MUST see!
So she is... uh... she is... a piece of work is what Im getting
Ohhh I clicked so fast.
I appreciate your take on this.
Thanks!
i hope as years go on, there will be laws on independant journalism (and other things, like children's content for an example) through platforms like youtube, but since it's so new, ppl are 100% taking advantage of the lack of them. it shouldnt be legal to make content using this kind of practice
As someone who watches true crime you've summed up everything wrong with the non-ethical true crime channels (which as you've said is the sad majority)
Some good can be done from the ethical channels like Kendall Rae, but most channels are just making jokes and profiting off other people's horrible pain and misery
These aren't scary stories
Thank you for talking about this.
27:35 thank you, sometimes it's so needed for others to remember this, to get a complete perspective.
I appreciate your response and I also don’t tend towards true crime because it’s a bit sickening
What I have found strange is that to watch a lot of these news stories that are gruesome or say 'viewer discretion adviser', you have to watch an ad, first. At least in the states.
I hate 95% of the true crime community because of how much they exploit and glamorize tragedies. There is not a single True Crime content creator I like except JCS. Everyone else makes True Crime entertainment. True Crime is not entertainment. I understand if you're watching for information but someone's tragedy should NOT just be entertainment. Would you like someone talking about your family members tragic death while putting on makeup and making fun of the victim? Or some of the creators SIDE with the killers. People sell serial killer merch. Or 'true crime and chill' merch. it's disgusting.
I feel like I've made this comment on one of your videos before, but I used to love true crime. The reason I stopped was because it felt like the information sources were all fourth hand, and each source cited the other in an ouroboros of sensationalism. I haven't really encountered the jr investigator side of true crime, but it sounds horrific. You mentioned journalistic integrity, and I was listening to a podcast (If Books Could Kill, highly recommend) where they were talking about how lots of BS nowadays is due to lots of people calling themselves journalists or practicing journalism without practicing the important elements of integrity
Omfg. I heard people talk about "10 to life" a lot, but I've never looked at her channel. Everything about it looks so tone deaf
totally agree with you. constantly talking about this issue!
As someone who is interested in true crime but does not consume it too much, you've given me a very interesting perspective. I've only really considered the people who do GRWM and promote beauty products to be a bit off beat. But when I heard about this person exploiting pictures for money it felt even worse.
Another banger video to listen to while I made dinner. Put my zucchini boats in the oven just as the video ended! Was meant to be.
That makes me happy to hear that y’all are understanding as fans of the genre
I’ve loved true crime since I was a kid. Watched forensic files and law and order with my grandma, my mom and I would watch live court cases on TV. As an adult, I still consume some true crime shows and enjoy watching interrogation UA-cam videos.
With all of that being said, I appreciate the critical lens that you’re looking at the true crime community through. There are far too many podcasts, shows, and channels that feel gross. They’re literally profiting off of someone’s death or SA or both. Over the last few years I’ve tried to limit my intake of true crime content and be critical of what I’m taking in. I appreciate this video and I’m sorry for any backlash you’ve received or may continue to receive.
I love Emma Kenny personally. She is a psychologist and extremely passionate true crime enthusiast
LFGGGG MIKA VIDEO!!!
True crime probably 2nd on the most exploitative content on this platform next to family channels.
Gannon and many other victims went through enough, can't these people just let them rest? Unless they're actively working with the family, they shouldn't be talking about it.
this is the reality check i needed
The whole "I chose not to put it on youtube where I could make more money" actually made me snort. She, better than any viewer, knows what you can and cannot put in YT. You can't even say a ton of words relating to crime, let aline autopsy photos. She didn't have a chance of putting it publicly on YT so to act like she did something so virtuous while ignoring the hit to her wallet is just so disingenuous.
THANK YOU! I watched Annie Elise's video and she put it on the screen many times with letters and all!!! it was DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!! how is that not selling the pics? lmao
Supporting you and joining first 5 min gang!!
Thank you so much happy you’re here!! 🤩
When you said “BAR” I knew you watched Zachary Micheal 😂
The girlies are in the chat
Hi Mika I just wanted to write to you and say thank you. I had started a true crime You Tube channel a couple weeks ago and I wanted to make sure I was doing this ethically. I have decided I'm going to stop and change the path of my channel. I didn't realized how unethical it was until today. I wanted to be like Kendall Rea, reach audiences and interview victims. But I'm just starting and it would be impossible to have families in my channel when I only have 29 subscribers. So thank you and looking forward to watching more of your videos.
The genre has become so saturated because people see money in it. As soon as money is involved, i think people lose sight of their humanity a little. I'll never forget getting a recommendation for "12 days of christmas: jon benet" (or smth to that effect) It was so disgusting.
25:15 Also you were talking about the situation surrounding it, not getting into graphic details and showing pictures.
so funny to see people who saw a video criticizing true crime, proceed to Not Watch said video, and then… propagate eleanor neale?!!??! listen to yourselves!!!!