Unfortunately, the "HD" version of this video (basically the 1080p quality option) is still processing, so I apologize about that. Until it is done processing, this video will be at 720p quality.
I'm been checking yuor channel out too keep up with all the different ammo out there. .45acp,44mag., and 10mm are among my top favorites. I have a .500 SW mag,and a .454 Casull Ruger, very pricey too shoot routinely. My lastest interest is the Glock 40 mos-10mm, with the extra barrel length over the Glock 20-10mm, it's a ton of fun,for anchoring big nasty hogs,and easily out performs the 4"-5" stuff on tests like your doing.👍
Great channel you have here. In my mind I am comparing you to Paul Harrell and Gun Sam. That’s a huge compliment because they’re my favorite firearm channels. Like them you are exact in your testing methodology and to the point with your information.
Personally, I carry a 45 Colt fully loaded. The bullets are 250 grain solid copper, going at 1000 fps, with a TKO factor of 16 or a KPS value of 35.7, and it will take on animals upward of 1500 pounds or less. So I do not have to worry about flipping a safety off, nor do I have to worry about shooting my self in the leg when trying to fast draw it in a pinch. And I do not have to worry if I reset the safety either before re-holstering. The only worry with a double action revolver is re-holstering with the hammer cocked back, and if it does not have a spur then that worry is done away with for good. Also with revolver pistols people do not have to practice "TAP, RACK, and SLAP" like they have to with semi-auto pistols. This procedure takes time that when a bear is charging one may very well not have. And it takes both hands, of which a bear could be chewing on one by this time in the game. Revolvers are an ambidextrous one handed thing that never fail to feed or eject, and if a round does not go off just keep pulling the trigger. So the only real concern should be which double action revolver one would take to a bear fight? And keep in mind that black bears can be upwards of 600 pounds or so, and grizzlies 1000 or better. What ever one should choose (a semi-auto or revolver pistol), run the figures of the rounds through the two equations below to see just how big of game one could take down with them. Keep in mind that these two systems are considering a humane kill with a side shot through the lungs and heart of the animal and not a straight on charging scenario, so really the numbers need to be higher than rated below as far as what size animal the rounds will take down quickly. And always choose HARD CAST LEAD or SOLID COPPER/BRASS bullets only, as they penetrate the skulls easier as opposed to deflecting off them. 1) "Taylor Knock-Out Factor" ( n4lcd.com/calc/) [bullet weight in grains X speed in feet per second X diameter of the bullet in inches divided by 7,000 = ____ ] 2) "Killing Power Scale": [bullet weight in grains X speed in feet per second divided by 7,000 = ____ ] [Any killing power index system must have some baseline values that define minimums for the weight and/or type of game animals that might be hunted. After considerable deliberation and discussion, Chuck Hawks and Pacos Kelly settled on the following KPS baselines. Understand that these are ultimately judgment calls, so someone who has a different perspective might question particular baseline values. That said, They believe the baselines presented here to be reasonable, though not immutable.] Baseline KPS values: KPS 12.5 or greater: Class 2 game, 50 pounds to about 150 pounds (e.g., average size North American deer, pronghorn, feral hog) KPS 15 or greater: All Class 2 game, but especially those between about 150 and 300 pounds (e.g., very large whitetail deer and feral hogs, mule deer, caribou, black bear) KPS 30 or greater: Smaller Class 3 game, 300 to about 500 pounds (e.g., smaller elk, red stag, oryx, very large black bear) KPS 32 or greater: Class 3 game between about 500 and 1000 pounds (e.g., trophy elk, average moose, extremely large black bear) KPS 35 or greater: All Class 3 game, but especially those between about 1000 and 1500 pounds (e.g., very large moose, eland) [45 Colt 250 grain Extreme Penetrator @ 1000 = 35.7] KPS 68.5 or greater: Thin-skinned Class 4 game (e.g., leopard, lion, GRIZZLY BEAR) [45 Colt 250 grain Extreme Penetrator +P @ 1400 = 61.5 (close). As far as pistols this is a 45 Colt Ruger only load] KPS 88 or greater: Thick skinned dangerous game (e.g., Cape buffalo, rhino, elephant)
Someone did a test a few years ago, firing 380 95 grain FMJ at cattle leg bones and shattered them to small bits. For sure the 10 mm will do at least as well.
OK, that's more than the 40 S&W's you've reviewed. Not a tremendous amount more but more. Making it worth carrying the 10 instead if you have a 10mm pistol. Another good review =thanks.
Jep, I have a Glock 20 Gen., 510 mm, and I'm going a trip to Alaska next year. What Ammunition, would you recommend that I use and what grain? Because i'm not changing the barrel, it's the barrel that comes with the Glock??????
I don't have any experience with the G20, but I know Chuke with Chuke's Outdoor Adventures and Chuck with Alaskan Ballistics have some experience with them, I'd ask them. I would think Underwood's "Black Cherry" coated heavy hardcasts would be best, but I cannot say. I'm sorry I can't be of more use here. I hope you have a fun and safe trip!
For what its worth, im using an old style thicker metal propane bottle for my 10mm test target. Both the Unders & B.B. make a nice clean entry hole but both turn to dust on impact leaving NO dent or mark on the backside. Loading my own 200 grain Berrys bulletts @ 1244 fps it leaves a very nice big dent on the backside but dosent go through. Thoes recovered slugs are flattened out to quarter size and dont lose much weight at all. Im sure in a bear, even hitting bone theyed perform quite well w marginal flattening. The only slug thats punching a hole in the backside are the 140 Unders extream penetrators. I got a Glock 20 gen 5 & its a POS. Nothing but one FTF after another. Only got that because the only standoff devise i could find was for Glocks only. My XDM-Es have proven 100% reliable no matter what i feed em. The glocks spring is weak & NOT designed for full power loads. Only 100 rounds and the cheap end cap on the double spring is bending. Real garbage spring. Glock rep says the gen 5 is only designed for NATO spec ammunition which i guess is weak crap too. And they have NO plans of making stronger/ better springs for the gen 5s. Last damned klunk i will ever buy.
For my use case, I would have to go with the .45 but the 10mm is no slouch. I may try to compare them soon, I think that would be interesting. Thank you for the idea!
@@JepsOutdoorAdventures you do really good work. I liked what I saw with underwood video 45acp and bought $200 worth. I bought some 10mm as well. I have a Glock 21 and 10mm conversion barrel. Wishing to know what you would carry in Alaska. Keep up the great work.
@@craignoviad.c.8932Thank you! To answer your question: I now have access to a Raging Bull .44 mag, so that would probably be my pick. But choosing between the .45 and the 10mm, I would probably go with the 10mm so long as I have a good Shotgun/or rifle with me. Neither the 10 or .45 would make me too comfortable around big bears, but they have been known to work on their own. So long as you carry the gun in a good holster and practice with it a lot, either could work just fine I suppose.
I didn't know about them until now, but I'll look into them. Probably will work but I think the hardcasts will still be better. It's going to be a while before I can test them though. But anyway, thanks for the suggestion and for watching!
Buffalo Bore uses Rim Rock bullets that are BHN 15 in this case. If I recall correctly, they were 227-228 grains counting the lube. Feral hogs tell me that 15 is plenty hard. I have been noticing Underwood’s bullets flattening out at around 1200 fps, despite being advertised as BHN 21. They use powder coated bullets, and it’s my guess that baking the coating on is actually annealing the bullets.
Matt P, is that Rim Rock in Montana? I knew thoes guys for awhile & got to be in the shop watching them do their thing. Meticulous & exact. They made an oversized 320 grain 44 WFNHCGC slug specifically for Ruger's & that turned an average shooter into a 🍀 tack driver. Best bear slugs ever.
@@876mpr , Thanks. The shop in Ronan was maxed out on floor space. I can see where they'ed have to expand for taking on B.B. From what I was told Ruger cuts their bores 1/1000 over so loading the larger diameter slugs gave a better seal. I don't know if that's true or not but loading the bigger diameter slugs DID increase the speeds 100 fps & printed WAY tighter. My loads went from 1200 fps to 1300 fps. That was back many years ago before B.B. even existed. If you wanted hot bear loads you had to load them yourself. Rumor is that B.B. was started to fill the demand for the hot bear loads for our 45/70s & the business just exploded into the mega company it is today. I was pushing 420 grain WFNHCs out at 2100 fps.. B.B. shows 430 grain out at 2300 fps. I believe it. Absolutely have to have a triple mag recoil pad or it breaks ones arm. Hard kicking loads on both ends. Really knocks the crap out of our grizzlies thou. I shot a charging 10 ft blackie @ 100 yards square in the sternum. Instantly dropped him. Found the compleatly Undamaged slug just under the rear flank fur except for the rifling cuts. TOYAL energy transfer INTO the bear..Impressed me! Full length Old Marlin. Have shot many bears since, all dropped w 1 shot. That 10 ft blackie is the biggest bear I ever shot. My 2 grizzlies we're only 8 footers. That blackie was killing & eating the smaller grizzlies around my bait station. I was lucky he charged me out in the one of the few open spaces up here. In A close ambush he'd have prob got me. Amazing how FAST thoes suckers can move from a standing to full charge run.
Been buying RimRock bullets for over 10 years now. They have 2 BHN cast loads to choose from, a standard BHN 15 loads and their premium line Hardcast has BHN of 21 which is what is loaded into the Buffalo bore cartridge seen here. On a side note the coating that underwood and the like use on Hardcast is actually harmful to your barrel, it is also highly toxic.
@@mikerobinson8734 I used to use some of their bullets, but have been casting all my own for the past 5 years. I’m not surprised about the coating. I’ve also never seen anything that suggests coated bullets have any performance advantage over traditionally lubed bullets. Besides, who wants bullets that look like lipstick or candy?
Can't really say, but range certainly is a factor. But out of a handgun, no caliber is ideal at those distances unless you have an 8" (or longer) barrel imo. Best use a carbine or rifle, you get better performance all around and most rifle cartdridges hit with a harder T.K.O anyway.
You put out some really good vids on this type of ammo. Very impressed with the penetration on the 40. I have always felt it was a good choice if you had to pick only "one gun". Obviously, ammo choice is very important for the duties needed. Have you chrono'd this round?
Taylor KO has its critics, and it doesn't account for expansion and sectional density (penetration). When performing very high ballistics you look at the velocity and density of your projectiles (sometimes hardness or temperature depending on application).
We don't do that for the bear loads, they don't really do anything as far as simulating a bear and we need to save as many jugs as possible. I will keep them for the hollow points and hunting rounds though 👍
@@JepsOutdoorAdventures The reason I miss the all jug test is because your other tests are so unique that I can’t compare the results with the results I can get with just jugs.
I have a 10 and use the Liberty 60 gr, copper hollow point, moving kinda fast out of the 10, seems to dump a lot of energy, no idea how fast it would KO that african taylor guy. 🤣. Im sure not nearly as much energy as a 9mm or 40/45.....
Jep, here's a true story of four guys shooting at a black bear with four pistols (one 10mm, one 44Mag, and two 45ACPs). Pay close attention as to how far the 45ACPs penetrated. ua-cam.com/video/ClexOj6S_OE/v-deo.html
Unfortunately, the "HD" version of this video (basically the 1080p quality option) is still processing, so I apologize about that. Until it is done processing, this video will be at 720p quality.
720p is fine in my opinion anyway thanks for your time, like your videos!!
@@danwhyte3524 No problem, thank you!
GREAT point about TKO and explains why I prefer a .45, but any of these rounds very capable.
I'm been checking yuor channel out too keep up with all the different ammo out there. .45acp,44mag., and 10mm are among my top favorites. I have a .500 SW mag,and a .454 Casull Ruger, very pricey too shoot routinely. My lastest interest is the Glock 40 mos-10mm, with the extra barrel length over the Glock 20-10mm, it's a ton of fun,for anchoring big nasty hogs,and easily out performs the 4"-5" stuff on tests like your doing.👍
Great channel you have here. In my mind I am comparing you to Paul Harrell and Gun Sam. That’s a huge compliment because they’re my favorite firearm channels. Like them you are exact in your testing methodology and to the point with your information.
That really is a huge compliment, thank you!
Personally, I carry a 45 Colt fully loaded. The bullets are 250 grain solid copper, going at 1000 fps, with a TKO factor of 16 or a KPS value of 35.7, and it will take on animals upward of 1500 pounds or less. So I do not have to worry about flipping a safety off, nor do I have to worry about shooting my self in the leg when trying to fast draw it in a pinch. And I do not have to worry if I reset the safety either before re-holstering. The only worry with a double action revolver is re-holstering with the hammer cocked back, and if it does not have a spur then that worry is done away with for good.
Also with revolver pistols people do not have to practice "TAP, RACK, and SLAP" like they have to with semi-auto pistols. This procedure takes time that when a bear is charging one may very well not have. And it takes both hands, of which a bear could be chewing on one by this time in the game. Revolvers are an ambidextrous one handed thing that never fail to feed or eject, and if a round does not go off just keep pulling the trigger.
So the only real concern should be which double action revolver one would take to a bear fight? And keep in mind that black bears can be upwards of 600 pounds or so, and grizzlies 1000 or better.
What ever one should choose (a semi-auto or revolver pistol), run the figures of the rounds through the two equations below to see just how big of game one could take down with them. Keep in mind that these two systems are considering a humane kill with a side shot through the lungs and heart of the animal and not a straight on charging scenario, so really the numbers need to be higher than rated below as far as what size animal the rounds will take down quickly. And always choose HARD CAST LEAD or SOLID COPPER/BRASS bullets only, as they penetrate the skulls easier as opposed to deflecting off them.
1) "Taylor Knock-Out Factor" ( n4lcd.com/calc/)
[bullet weight in grains X speed in feet per second X diameter of the bullet in inches divided by 7,000 = ____ ]
2) "Killing Power Scale":
[bullet weight in grains X speed in feet per second divided by 7,000 = ____ ]
[Any killing power index system must have some baseline values that define minimums for the weight and/or type of game animals that might be hunted. After considerable deliberation and discussion, Chuck Hawks and Pacos Kelly settled on the following KPS baselines. Understand that these are ultimately judgment calls, so someone who has a different perspective might question particular baseline values. That said, They believe the baselines presented here to be reasonable, though not immutable.]
Baseline KPS values:
KPS 12.5 or greater: Class 2 game, 50 pounds to about 150 pounds (e.g., average size North American deer, pronghorn, feral hog)
KPS 15 or greater: All Class 2 game, but especially those between about 150 and 300 pounds (e.g., very large whitetail deer and feral hogs, mule deer, caribou, black bear)
KPS 30 or greater: Smaller Class 3 game, 300 to about 500 pounds (e.g., smaller elk, red stag, oryx, very large black bear)
KPS 32 or greater: Class 3 game between about 500 and 1000 pounds (e.g., trophy elk, average moose, extremely large black bear)
KPS 35 or greater: All Class 3 game, but especially those between about 1000 and 1500 pounds (e.g., very large moose, eland)
[45 Colt 250 grain Extreme Penetrator @ 1000 = 35.7]
KPS 68.5 or greater: Thin-skinned Class 4 game (e.g., leopard, lion, GRIZZLY BEAR)
[45 Colt 250 grain Extreme Penetrator +P @ 1400 = 61.5 (close). As far as pistols this is a 45 Colt Ruger only load]
KPS 88 or greater: Thick skinned dangerous game (e.g., Cape buffalo, rhino, elephant)
Someone did a test a few years ago, firing 380 95 grain FMJ at cattle leg bones and shattered them to small bits. For sure the 10 mm will do at least as well.
You know your stuff young man. 45acp and 10mm are much closer than folks think. I have them both in Glocks and 1911s. TKO is a gtreat measure.
Good video 👏
Looking at your set up in beginning I thought there would be no way the bullet would make it to that final board. Impressive.
Thank you! And yeah, these rounds are really impressive
I thought the same thing. Really impressed
Another really good video!
It’s definitely a hot load. I’m going to pop off some of my double tap .45 ACP 230 grain +P 1000 FPS FMJ flat nose today.
OK, that's more than the 40 S&W's you've reviewed. Not a tremendous amount more but more. Making it worth carrying the 10 instead if you have a 10mm pistol. Another good review =thanks.
Buffalo Bore 220gr
1143 FPS in 4.6” Glock G20
Very Marginal Full Power Load
Jep, I have a Glock 20 Gen., 510 mm, and I'm going a trip to Alaska next year. What Ammunition, would you recommend that I use and what grain? Because i'm not changing the barrel, it's the barrel that comes with the Glock??????
I don't have any experience with the G20, but I know Chuke with Chuke's Outdoor Adventures and Chuck with Alaskan Ballistics have some experience with them, I'd ask them. I would think Underwood's "Black Cherry" coated heavy hardcasts would be best, but I cannot say. I'm sorry I can't be of more use here.
I hope you have a fun and safe trip!
For what its worth, im using an old style thicker metal propane bottle for my 10mm test target. Both the Unders & B.B. make a nice clean entry hole but both turn to dust on impact leaving NO dent or mark on the backside. Loading my own 200 grain Berrys bulletts @ 1244 fps it leaves a very nice big dent on the backside but dosent go through. Thoes recovered slugs are flattened out to quarter size and dont lose much weight at all. Im sure in a bear, even hitting bone theyed perform quite well w marginal flattening. The only slug thats punching a hole in the backside are the 140 Unders extream penetrators. I got a Glock 20 gen 5 & its a POS. Nothing but one FTF after another. Only got that because the only standoff devise i could find was for Glocks only. My XDM-Es have proven 100% reliable no matter what i feed em. The glocks spring is weak & NOT designed for full power loads. Only 100 rounds and the cheap end cap on the double spring is bending. Real garbage spring. Glock rep says the gen 5 is only designed for NATO spec ammunition which i guess is weak crap too. And they have NO plans of making stronger/ better springs for the gen 5s. Last damned klunk i will ever buy.
Love to see comparison of the 10mm to BB 45acp 255 hard cast commentary what would you use
For my use case, I would have to go with the .45 but the 10mm is no slouch. I may try to compare them soon, I think that would be interesting. Thank you for the idea!
@@JepsOutdoorAdventures you do really good work. I liked what I saw with underwood video 45acp and bought $200 worth. I bought some 10mm as well. I have a Glock 21 and 10mm conversion barrel. Wishing to know what you would carry in Alaska. Keep up the great work.
@@craignoviad.c.8932Thank you! To answer your question: I now have access to a Raging Bull .44 mag, so that would probably be my pick. But choosing between the .45 and the 10mm, I would probably go with the 10mm so long as I have a good Shotgun/or rifle with me.
Neither the 10 or .45 would make me too comfortable around big bears, but they have been known to work on their own. So long as you carry the gun in a good holster and practice with it a lot, either could work just fine I suppose.
Great information. Appreciate it.
Thanks!
Very thorough, subbed. Excellent job!
Awesome, thank you!
The weight of the 10mm bullets really add a dimension of momentum to drive deep through your testing medium.
Bro whats your opinion on Underwood 230 grain 45 acp +p for woods?
Do you have any plan to review it?
I didn't know about them until now, but I'll look into them. Probably will work but I think the hardcasts will still be better. It's going to be a while before I can test them though.
But anyway, thanks for the suggestion and for watching!
Isn't the ceramic plate the same thing as the Chobham armor used in the Abrams? Something about the fracturing reducing the force?
Buffalo Bore uses Rim Rock bullets that are BHN 15 in this case. If I recall correctly, they were 227-228 grains counting the lube. Feral hogs tell me that 15 is plenty hard.
I have been noticing Underwood’s bullets flattening out at around 1200 fps, despite being advertised as BHN 21. They use powder coated bullets, and it’s my guess that baking the coating on is actually annealing the bullets.
Matt P, is that Rim Rock in Montana? I knew thoes guys for awhile & got to be in the shop watching them do their thing. Meticulous & exact. They made an oversized 320 grain 44 WFNHCGC slug specifically for Ruger's & that turned an average shooter into a 🍀 tack driver. Best bear slugs ever.
@@tristantimothy1004 Yeah, that’s them. They bought Oregon Trail a few years ago. They supply BB with all of their cast bullets.
@@876mpr , Thanks. The shop in Ronan was maxed out on floor space. I can see where they'ed have to expand for taking on B.B. From what I was told Ruger cuts their bores 1/1000 over so loading the larger diameter slugs gave a better seal. I don't know if that's true or not but loading the bigger diameter slugs DID increase the speeds 100 fps & printed WAY tighter. My loads went from 1200 fps to 1300 fps. That was back many years ago before B.B. even existed. If you wanted hot bear loads you had to load them yourself. Rumor is that B.B. was started to fill the demand for the hot bear loads for our 45/70s & the business just exploded into the mega company it is today. I was pushing 420 grain WFNHCs out at 2100 fps.. B.B. shows 430 grain out at 2300 fps. I believe it. Absolutely have to have a triple mag recoil pad or it breaks ones arm. Hard kicking loads on both ends. Really knocks the crap out of our grizzlies thou. I shot a charging 10 ft blackie @ 100 yards square in the sternum. Instantly dropped him. Found the compleatly Undamaged slug just under the rear flank fur except for the rifling cuts. TOYAL energy transfer INTO the bear..Impressed me! Full length Old Marlin. Have shot many bears since, all dropped w 1 shot. That 10 ft blackie is the biggest bear I ever shot. My 2 grizzlies we're only 8 footers. That blackie was killing & eating the smaller grizzlies around my bait station. I was lucky he charged me out in the one of the few open spaces up here. In A close ambush he'd have prob got me. Amazing how FAST thoes suckers can move from a standing to full charge run.
Been buying RimRock bullets for over 10 years now. They have 2 BHN cast loads to choose from, a standard BHN 15 loads and their premium line Hardcast has BHN of 21 which is what is loaded into the Buffalo bore cartridge seen here.
On a side note the coating that underwood and the like use on Hardcast is actually harmful to your barrel, it is also highly toxic.
@@mikerobinson8734 I used to use some of their bullets, but have been casting all my own for the past 5 years.
I’m not surprised about the coating. I’ve also never seen anything that suggests coated bullets have any performance advantage over traditionally lubed bullets. Besides, who wants bullets that look like lipstick or candy?
Your comparing these 2 calibers at close range. What happens to your Taylor knockout at 70yds?
Can't really say, but range certainly is a factor. But out of a handgun, no caliber is ideal at those distances unless you have an 8" (or longer) barrel imo. Best use a carbine or rifle, you get better performance all around and most rifle cartdridges hit with a harder T.K.O anyway.
You put out some really good vids on this type of ammo. Very impressed with the penetration on the 40. I have always felt it was a good choice if you had to pick only "one gun". Obviously, ammo choice is very important for the duties needed. Have you chrono'd this round?
That’s a beautiful gun I have the same gun in black and 45 ACP That thing is sick though
Yeah, It's great. My only complaint are the sights. I have a hard time with the solid black rear sight but that's a minor nitpick
Thank you , Sir.
Taylor KO has its critics, and it doesn't account for expansion and sectional density (penetration). When performing very high ballistics you look at the velocity and density of your projectiles (sometimes hardness or temperature depending on application).
Great info to know for the next time I'm attacked by plywood, towels, gel, and milk jugs full of water.
Smart ass lol
Lol.. my bad.. Ive watched so many of these this am , I forgot I was on the 10mm.. also, yep, I shoulda watched to the end before commenting..
At what distance are you shooting???
About 12 feet. The distance never changes unless we're doing testing for long gun ammo, at which point it is about 40 feet or so 👍
9 inch lone wolf barrel might go completely thru
What happened to the test where you used just water jugs?
We don't do that for the bear loads, they don't really do anything as far as simulating a bear and we need to save as many jugs as possible. I will keep them for the hollow points and hunting rounds though 👍
@@JepsOutdoorAdventures The reason I miss the all jug test is because your other tests are so unique that I can’t compare the results with the results I can get with just jugs.
I have yet to find this ammo in 10 mm in my town
Should be able to mail order it, no?
More 10mm
Love my Glock 20 gen5
Thumbs up
I have a 10 and use the Liberty 60 gr, copper hollow point, moving kinda fast out of the 10, seems to dump a lot of energy, no idea how fast it would KO that african taylor guy. 🤣. Im sure not nearly as much energy as a 9mm or 40/45.....
I can only imagine what that things like lol! Sounds like its a fast little devil.
Jep,
here's a true story of four guys shooting at a black bear with four pistols (one 10mm, one 44Mag, and two 45ACPs).
Pay close attention as to how far the 45ACPs penetrated. ua-cam.com/video/ClexOj6S_OE/v-deo.html
several friends of mine [3] have used this 220 load in their glocks,,jamming was a big problem,,plus it hammered the glocks bad,, one need repairs
Razor. Dobbs