Some remain agnostic for years.. I myself is probably one cos I still am catholic but accepting of the rationality of atheism... I can’t let go of the faith, even if my thinking is telling me too... hence I appreciate the philosophy I’m getting from the atheist perspective
Ben Dover .. thx mate,, yeah it’s good for the mind as well, it’s like an ongoing battle of good and bad.. and realised they go hand in hand, you won’t understand one without the other.. I love watching TAE and Talk Heathen and I actually love it when they smash Christian freaks, but at the same time, it’s a very complete feeling if you believe in the almighty... things somehow had direction, and my mind had peace it needed when I started praying the rosary again.. and I felt like I can reconcile in my own head the idea of having a god and lacking one... the atheists have their own path to happiness as we all have, and I salute how they actually use education to make people aware that there are holy shitheads out there and that they should be avoided... I decided to remain catholic though... man, after listening to evangelical morons who have their own interpretation of the bible and spreading it like facts, holy fxck I don’t want to be like them... there’s a reason why Catholic schools are expensive- cos they have the authority and the ability to teach, not just optionally but *definitively* ... and boy I was brought up in that way... so now I continue knowing him the way I was taught how... m done with ancient scripture, it’s a very fucked book... but the virtues and the hope that the Catholic Church teaches since my childhood are still very useful... And so is the output of atheists who are there to make me understand how complex this unseen God is... it’s like I’m praying for enlightenment and God leads me to watching Atheist Experience, Talk Heathen, and Ascension Presents (it’s a Catholic channel, a good and decent one I suppose haha)... maybe UA-cam is the new bible 🙄💡
yummypocster Remember, Agnosism and Athiesm aren't two positions on the same thing. Most atheists are agnostics, athiesm answers whether a belief exists, agnosism answers whether there's a claim to knowledge
MarklenIngyer .. hence I never really followed labels... I can call myself a catholic, a chair, a noodle box, agnostic or atheist, at the end of the day, whatever I call myself, I’ll always be human... il always be a complex creation that evolved from wtf knows... So I’ll just stay searching... most atheists have stopped searching, most theists are fuct in the head to even start searching.. I’m Catholic because I was born catholic, if I was atheist, of course I’ll be same.. I feel complete staying catholic but I trust the atheists for answers..
@High Priest of the Flying Spaghetti Monster Finally I meet a High Priest of the one and only true God, the flying spaghetti Monster. What an honor. I even have evidence for his existence. I have seen enough sphaghetti in my life that proves its existence (the same way Bible proves Yahweh)
While not technically impossible, that god would be absolutely none of the gods described in any theism. But those odds are just as likely as the flying spaghetti monster and such.
@@Belikel Or Hermes. Or Dionysus. Or Anansi. Or Sun Wukong. Or Huehuecoyotl. Seriously, there's even an entire category for this concept, it's called a "Trickster God".
This caller was 1000 times better than most. He actually listened, considered, and remained open minded. He even admitted when Matt made a good point and said he'd think about it. I don't know why the comments seem negative towards him. This was a great episode!
@@ivermectinpatient5325 fill in blanks! I do not have to make my examples "happy" ones for you, anyone else! If i was trying to convince everyone i am "right" (Im not) Id have used a "nicer" example. Christianity's spread globally was done by the knife, sword, gun, by torture, murder, as christians surpressed/destroyed others cilivilizations, cultures, etc. The caller is a decent sounding guy, but he calls to, in reality, defend those who marched ashore w the colonial monsters, defended (and participated in) murder/torture of forcibly, in voluntarially colonialized peoples. Nazism actually, in historic context, is a very solid analogy to the white/racist colonial takeovers of much of the world, surpression, murder of its peoples, destruction of their cultures, of which christian charletans were clear participants, not observers. This horrible legacy of colonialism, surpression, etc is absolutely part of/central to our nation's existence today, in the form of institution racism, etc. Further, Hitler actually wrote on how the holocast was actually inspired/taken from the example of white colonial/racist genocide in the Americas. I wrote it in that manner to get the response you gave me. Thank you!
I have watched dozens of these of debates. The caller's always say the same thing. This crazy argument has been going on for over 2000 years and nothing's changed as far as the theist argument goes. It's always the same.
@Dd S "vaginal stained moron"? you should like a christian. Arguments for a "deity" HAVE been going for a minimum of 4,000 years. Evidence for more than 6,000 years. Just what are you quibbling about? Dd S [by the way do you know why I chose the Ki-Shi-Ru totem? What it stands for? I didn't think so sport.
@David Anewman faith is not the interpretation of information. If one draws a conclusion from actual evidence that conclusion is by definition not based on faith.
The word “faith” is loaded. Even though it means thinking something is true when you can’t know it is, “faith” still sounds positive. If we called it being deluded, that would be better.
@@EustaBAracer Sure. And, I love it when people pretend that they _don't_ have faith and that absolutely _every_ proposition that they accept as more likely to be true than untrue actually has evidence to support it...because those who think this *are delusional.*
Faith is a word that is used in different contexts, telling a child about to sit an exam "I have faith in you" , between lovers there can be a belief in each other's faithfulness. There is the idea that we have faith in things like electricity working even though we may have no idea at all how it works. Often believers themselves are confused about what they mean and indeed what "faith" means within their "faith system."
Someone told me that you just need to "believe." I told them that there is a blue elephant in my backyard. Their response was, "I need to see that." And my response to that was, "Why can't you just "believe?"
Apologists continuously try to redefine words like faith and atheism in order to have their unfounded belief in a god equivalent to science in order to try and validate their beliefs.
@David Parry have i said anything about evidence? Mate, you can spin me around, choke me if u will but I'll never be able to show proof of God. Unfortunately, what you wrote was something already answered during the dark ages so atheist claims dont really shake my faith anymore.. Im a Catholic schoolboy gone wild yet reads, writes and actually practises what was taught since childhood.. I was given a mind who knows how to seek and learn, and i know that if i stop knowing the hows and whys, its pointless having that knowledge at all 😉 🙏 ❤️
@David Parry its a matter of choice, mate... Should i listen to a person full of hate? Of course.. But do i need to follow? I have my own path, you have yours.. God will show up if you want him too... Otherwise he'll still exist after we're dead anyway... Issues youve mentioned occur in every society... It is something we all hate.. But do i remember being taught to harm others, to do evil against their will? I don't remember being schooled on that, it wasn't on the syllabus... If you want to stop your search, fine... Im sticking with mine 😉🙏🌄 BTW Im roman Catholic.. Much as i love the bible, we're not bible thumping nuts 🤪... So feel free to roll your joints with it, i wouldn't go spastic... We have a country of books to read, to keep us learning about things we can't sense but know exist... Oh, and catty calling on Catholics as Child molesters... Dear Judy, please judge 😊🙏
@David Parry and i also became agnostic from believing the Bible too much.. Yup we share the same realities... The things you can't see are the same things i don't see.. But it is my choice to keep looking for that "reality" i can't see.. Some people stop, others keep going.. I became theist because i was born one.. Im baptised since infancy so lucky me 🎉i didn't have to go through the hassles of indoctrination because it is my destiny... That here i am, Catholic asfuck, accepting of everything, and continuously learning.. If you're content with what you believe and it makes you happy, stand by it.. 😉 🙏 Godbless brotha 🌄
"If god talks to you and tells you something, how can you be sure that god spoke to you, and this wasn't just a creation of your brain?" - precisely. For me, this is the single strongest argument against the nonsense of supernatural belief.
I love how TAE is the exact polar opposite to TV evangelist christian programs in every possible way. Not just the content obviously with facts and reason as opposed to claims and assumptions but the TEA crew are succinct as opposed to airy fairy and don't waffle on about nothing for hours. TEA don't appeal to emotions as opposed to christian programmings extremely dishonest grab at the heartstrings approach and TEA doesn't use soft focus (though in some close-ups that may be a good thing:) and grand ornate sets (may be a budgetary constraint) to try and fool the viewers into thinking the hosts are somehow superior or above them somehow.
Dude it's crazy going back to see these videos. I think history will look kind on this show and what they have exposed. Making people think about the world differently is sweet.
That was a particularly good call. I really appreciate the "That's a good point. I'll consider that and get back to you" approach. You rarely see that on this show or even in everyday life but it's so important.
Callers like him are brave to call..it is important to know what is going on in the world of religion..I think the team is very well equipped for these kind of calls..and I am learning how arguments are being built..
In the situation the caller describes, with a bunch of blind people and a few sighted people, you can still verify that the person who has this rare ability isn't just making shit up. "Okay, Joe, I know you couldn't hear it over the sound of the radio, but Sam just opened the door and came into the room." "Sam, ARE you there?" Yes, he's right. I did just come into this room." You can still test it empirically. Faith claims, on the other hand, are completely subjective. "I have a feeling in my heart." "I just know Jesus is talking to me." "I just know that God wants the best for me." Some vague, or even not so vague, feeling is indistinguishable for others from delusions and hallucinations. Faith has not been shown to be a legitimate method for determining what is real.
I have GREAT FAITH in Gravity. I Have NO faith in Elves. Much of "Faith is easy to drill through to the core and explain or deny." Faith is really nothing without evidence.
Most religious God beliefs start with childhood indoctrination. Mine did. My faith grew out of that indoctrination and once in that, it is so hard to "see". To see the truth, to see the inconsistencies, to see the the contradictions. Add to that are all these pastors, ministers, and apologists explaining away all the problems with faith and religion, and you are steeped in the community and environment of church and other believers. My faith collapsed while praying for an ill family member. While praying I realized none of my prayers as a faithful believer had ever been answered - not that the answer was no, but no response at all. As my faith was a totality, all tied together, it all totally collapsed in that moment: God, Jesus, Salvation, Heaven, Hell, all things supernatural, it all collapsed, it all went away, and I realized there was no God. If there is a God, it is certainly not the God of the Bible.
They can be depending on what your talking about. If you lived 2000 years ago and a scientist told you, I'm going to fly. Would you have believed him or would you have thought he was crazy? Or maybe others would have thought you were gullible for believing him if you had. It took some people certain amounts of faith to accomplish certain ideas. God is the same way. His work is manifested in ways the observer personally acknowledges.
@@xposed1333 No, what you're proposing is that ignorance of something is license for believing in the possibility of that thing. And your argument in support of that proposal is that sometimes we discover something despite our ignorance. Alas, none of that is meaningful. It could equally be the case that Ignorance of something is license for believing it's impossible. In other words, a state of ignorance is simply not relevant. It's not something to celebrate.
If someone is talking to God because they were born with an innate ability to communicate with God, all we would need in order to believe that they have some ability that we don’t - is to have them relay detailed, specific information from this “God” they can communicate with and then watch it happen in real-time. People don’t understand that their predictions become completely USELESS if they don’t reveal them until AFTER the predicted event has occurred (just like that old gypsy woman said!!!). They also need to be extremely specific - like winning lottery numbers from a specific date and not generic, non-descript crap like “there will be a car accident on this stretch of road sometime this month”. Finally, it needs to be repeatable and repeatedly accurate under scientific test conditions. If they can pass all those hurdles successful - I am absolutely ready to believe that they have a sense or ability that I don’t - and my next question would be “Well, how do you know that this communication comes from God - as opposed to a Genie or Leprechaun or time traveller or Satan or even some naturally explainable glimpse into the future that your human, fallible brain just presents to you as conversation...” Even with confirmed special abilities, there is a very long way to go before you can attribute it to “God” - so why is that the FIRST thing people think to say/claim when they hear a voice...
It has been preached since the 1980's, that 'faith is the belief in something without evidence'. The Wiccan author Scott Cunningham wrote: "Knowledge is far superior to belief. For belief is the why of the uninformed."
People don’t hear what they don’t want to... and if they want to hear it, they are taught to believe that “God” can hear their thoughts... I feel bad for them
Thought: test to try an convince a blind person that sight is a thing. Table with multiple geometric objects. They agrees on the names of these objects. He may pick up and hold any one of these objects in his hands and have good enough of a grasp to know that no one else is holding it. Person with sight will then name the shapes from a distance away as many times until the repeatability of the test is enough to convince them. (No real point to this. I just was trying to figure this out in my head. )
I think you’re spot on, this is a way to demonstrate the existence of a sense to someone who doesn’t have it. They will not be able to know what the experience of that sense is, but they will be warranted in believing that others have that sense
I forget the attribution, but someone once said "if a person says they hear God speaking to them, we lock them up, but if a million people say the same thing, we build a church"
This guy's voice sounds amazingly like the old caller Mark or whoever that was concerned about children at his local Texas church, and their parents hating atheists.
I have faith that God probably doesn't exist. We all know that faith is a good way of finding out things. Therefore it is probable that God does not exist. And if God did exist, I would know from my special senses.
Or you could find out when you wake up and face him at the judgement throne. Like Stephen Colbert said ,better to look stupid than to burn for eternity.
Blind people can get a little cube and a ball, pick one in each hand, shuffle them, ask sighted people where the cube is, they'll get it right 100% of the time, you can prove they have a sense you lack. You can get a person you really trust and get a red ball and a green ball, shuffle them in your hands, ask sighted people where the green sphere is, they'll get it right 100% of the times, you can prove they can recognize things beyond their shape and size, you have a case for color.
I would like Matt to do a magic trick, and once when he says something along the lines of "I have faith that when I drop this pop bottle, it will fall to the table." And when he lets go it just hovers there.
This is a thought bubbling up listening to the conversation. In personal relationships we often have faith in the other person, based not so much on positive evidence but on the lack of negative evidence. We have faith in our partners because we love them and have no reason not to put our faith in them. Sometimes the evidence proves that faith baseless. At least some of the Christians I know, I think probably the majority, do talk about their faith in personal and even emotional language. So often the callers seem to struggle to look at their "faith" logically or even understand what point the hosts are trying to make perhaps to them the belief just isn't based on even the concept of logic. (Though most seem to be convinced that their beliefs are inherently logical, and self evidently true.)
If you've ever looked at a picture of a galaxy, chances are you looked at an image that used invisible light, either Xray or UV or IR. And yet we know, without the ability to perceive these wavelengths of light, that they exist and have demonstrated it, by converting the information into something we can perceive. In this case, it would be to convert invisible lightwave spectrums into visible ones. The same concept can be used to covert anything we can not directly sense.
MrsRazor66 The caller was trying to argue early on that essentially there are lots of things we can't see or sense that exist and therefore god can exist. But an example of those things would be the X-ray images of stars, and yet we can collect evidence of these things we can't otherwise sense and are smart enough to convert that into data we can sense. We can't do that with god. My point is we know things we can't directly sense exist because there is still evidence of them existing, but the same can not be said about god.
Edward Overkleeft If you think you are so smart with this age old BS argument, call the show. But seriously, I think you need to research darkness. It is a perception issue, and very much dependant on what our eyes can see. Other animals can see in levels of light we can not, and our ability to see in the dark is tied directly to evolution and the development of rods in our eyes. Darkness is not something people measure, we measure the levels of light. When it is below a certain threshold we consider it dark, as in it is hard for humans to see. Even the Bortle Dark sky measurements are measuring how bright it is in a specific location.
Edward Overkleeft Reflectivity is what gives objects their colors, depending on how much of certain lightwaves they absorb. Have you ever looked at a lightbulb? Or a flame? You are not seeing reflected light, you are seeing direct/emitted light. So NO, not all light we see is reflected light. Have you ever eaten a bland sandwich? What made it bland? The bland particles? No, absence of spices makes it bland. Just because we have a word to describe the absence of something doesn't mean there is no scientific explanation or that it requires a direct presence of a substance. There are no dark particles. Have you ever heard of the "camera obscura"? It is a simple thing you can do yourself at home. A hole in a box or a wall of a dark room that looks out at a scene. With no lenses or anything, you will naturally see a flipped version of the image of the outside inside the room or box. That is the basic building blocks of how eyes developed in sea creatures. There's are several sources that talk about the development of the eye and how they EVOLVED, just because one scientist from the 19th century didn't fully understand the eye didn't mean we haven't figured out more since then. Get it out of your head that we worship the man, he started something, but we have since taken those ideas much farther. Also, Darwin DID admit the eye, no matter how improbable to him, COULD have been evolutionarily possible. In fact he says it in the same quote you are referencing, why don't you look at the entire quote and (as Christians love to say to us) stop taking it out of context.
Faith is a word that people use..rather than be truthful and simply say....I WANT this to be true, so I am going to hope it is true, even say I KNOW it is true....even though there is no evidence.
The blind can test the claim that some people can see based on their claim. They can set up an experiment where a sighted person could identify objects at a distance that would be impossible to interact or detect for someone who could not see. Set up objects out of sight of the subject in a space like a shooting range. Have them describe the shape and perceived material, have them estimate distances between objects and walls. These things the blind could know without sight. If the subjects observations at a distance conform to reality, the blind would be justified in the conclusion that some individuals can see.
You can easily prove vision exists to blind people. Ask the blind person to hold up whatever number of fingers they want and tell them how many they are holding up.
v5red You can prove it to people without talking to them as well. Helen Keller was both blind and deaf and ended up writing 12 books. Admittedly, it wasn't easy to get Helen Keller to understand that most people have two more senses than she had, but eventually she caught on.
I know of a class who had a project of describing colours to their blind classmate so they could understand the concept and pick a favourite colour. (They chose purple). You absolutely can explain colour to a blind person, it just takes some inventiveness.
You assume they succeeded in communicating colours? based on what? Teacher's opinion>? blind kid interviewed? scientist studied? not saing youre wrong. saying i dont buy it. but id need more than 2 lines from a stranger on yt to accept.
Faith is like the substitute teacher in school who does roll call, and the students answer for each other to confuse the teacher. Then for the rest of the class, the teacher thinks they know the student's names, all while being completely wrong.
Multiple emails that some went away...and stopped believing. and others who kept watching. and stopped believing. many kept believing too. just saying.
I can explain light and how it works to a blind person. I can teach them about how it originates via photons ejected from a matter, how the different wavelengths work, how it travels, and how it is received by the eyes. In fact, no one can discern an individual photon, but any educated person is familiar with my description.
If you hear that 7 years later you see the beginning of people who live more and more by their "own true" which leads to what we have today alternative facts and realities.
I have Spidey-senses too; I can always tell when there's danger nearby as verified by the fact that I can always find it if I keep looking and asking and searching and baiting. But it's verified 100% of the time to be accurate.
Okay now we're going to argue about what the word faith means. I've only heard this one about a hundred times. The hoops that these callers will jump through trying to justify their delusions are unbelievable. Sense experience is reliable? Well I guess all The magicians are out of business then huh? How many times has this callar been fooled by a magician? I guess the magician must be God huh?
I can't watch these videos anymore. It's difficult for me to realize I live in a world in which there are people out there who are so far out there, and they can still vote and drive and raise children. Mind-boggling! Like Ken Hamm's Ark Experience. Utterly unbearable.
Here's a question for people of faith who listen to and watch programs like this one on a regular, semi-regular or even sporadic basis over an extended period, let's say, just for the sake of a number...18 months and over? If the answer is that your faith is a little shaky, or that you're curious to understand atheism as defined by atheists as opposed to by your pastor/preacher/priest, I get it. But if you believe your faith to be bedrock solid, what's the attraction in spending time listening to atheists and theists go back and forth? If you read this and answer, thank you in advance for your indulgence.
Anyone who can show one scintilla of evidence for ANY supernatural phenomena or ANY gods will be rewarded immediately via Paypal in the amount of $5,750 USD. This is no joke, even if no one has yet met the standard for evidence.
@@richardvastine7486 A few have put their best feet forward but failed miserably to meet the burden of evidence. As anticipated I will not be parted anytime soon from my bankroll.
P F "Anyone who can show one scintilla of evidence for ANY supernatural phenomena or ANY gods will be rewarded immediately via Paypal in the amount of $5,750 USD." James Randi (The Amazing Randi) had a million dollar prize for anyone who could do this. No one ever collected.
I can sort of see where this caller's coming from if he's trying to say, as I think he is, that faith can result in belief in facts, but if it does it's absolutely coincidental. If someone's faith tells them that an object dropped will fall at 9.8m/s^2 because fairies will pull it down at that speed, that's a factually true belief about the rate at which things fall, but it offers no useful understanding of why.
What does any of this have to do with the fact that you can't verify the existence of any god? Jesus creeping shit, Matt has a lot of patience for these same arguments over and over
How can anyone watch this show for years & still remain a believer?
R'amen
Some remain agnostic for years.. I myself is probably one cos I still am catholic but accepting of the rationality of atheism... I can’t let go of the faith, even if my thinking is telling me too... hence I appreciate the philosophy I’m getting from the atheist perspective
Ben Dover .. thx mate,, yeah it’s good for the mind as well, it’s like an ongoing battle of good and bad.. and realised they go hand in hand, you won’t understand one without the other.. I love watching TAE and Talk Heathen and I actually love it when they smash Christian freaks, but at the same time, it’s a very complete feeling if you believe in the almighty... things somehow had direction, and my mind had peace it needed when I started praying the rosary again.. and I felt like I can reconcile in my own head the idea of having a god and lacking one...
the atheists have their own path to happiness as we all have, and I salute how they actually use education to make people aware that there are holy shitheads out there and that they should be avoided...
I decided to remain catholic though... man, after listening to evangelical morons who have their own interpretation of the bible and spreading it like facts, holy fxck I don’t want to be like them... there’s a reason why Catholic schools are expensive- cos they have the authority and the ability to teach, not just optionally but *definitively* ... and boy I was brought up in that way... so now I continue knowing him the way I was taught how... m done with ancient scripture, it’s a very fucked book... but the virtues and the hope that the Catholic Church teaches since my childhood are still very useful... And so is the output of atheists who are there to make me understand how complex this unseen God is...
it’s like I’m praying for enlightenment and God leads me to watching Atheist Experience, Talk Heathen, and Ascension Presents (it’s a Catholic channel, a good and decent one I suppose haha)... maybe UA-cam is the new bible 🙄💡
yummypocster
Remember, Agnosism and Athiesm aren't two positions on the same thing. Most atheists are agnostics, athiesm answers whether a belief exists, agnosism answers whether there's a claim to knowledge
MarklenIngyer .. hence I never really followed labels... I can call myself a catholic, a chair, a noodle box, agnostic or atheist, at the end of the day, whatever I call myself, I’ll always be human... il always be a complex creation that evolved from wtf knows...
So I’ll just stay searching... most atheists have stopped searching, most theists are fuct in the head to even start searching.. I’m Catholic because I was born catholic, if I was atheist, of course I’ll be same.. I feel complete staying catholic but I trust the atheists for answers..
My atheist sense is detecting dangerous gullibility.
@Religion Sucks .indianrx
@David Parry kci.xianreyipe
@David Parry v gtdtj.
indiNreyipe
@High Priest of the Flying Spaghetti Monster Finally I meet a High Priest of the one and only true God, the flying spaghetti Monster. What an honor.
I even have evidence for his existence. I have seen enough sphaghetti in my life that proves its existence (the same way Bible proves Yahweh)
3rd option. God exists, he talks to people, but he's a troll.
What if the troll god made up all contradicting extremeist religions as a (practical joke)
While not technically impossible, that god would be absolutely none of the gods described in any theism. But those odds are just as likely as the flying spaghetti monster and such.
@@EricLing64 I understand you haven't heard of Loki, peasant?
@@Belikel Or Hermes. Or Dionysus. Or Anansi. Or Sun Wukong. Or Huehuecoyotl.
Seriously, there's even an entire category for this concept, it's called a "Trickster God".
No she is my FAIRY -----------------
This caller was 1000 times better than most. He actually listened, considered, and remained open minded. He even admitted when Matt made a good point and said he'd think about it. I don't know why the comments seem negative towards him. This was a great episode!
Because most so called atheists commenting here have the same mind of a 5 years old.
I came here to say this. In fact, I think the hosts would do well to compliment openness to feedback.
that is like saying someone is great debater defending nazism
@@brucebostick2521 How is his position on faith anywhere near nazism? Don't get me wrong I fucking hate nazis but I don't see the connection
@@ivermectinpatient5325 fill in blanks! I do not have to make my examples "happy" ones for you, anyone else! If i was trying to convince everyone i am "right" (Im not) Id have used a "nicer" example. Christianity's spread globally was done by the knife, sword, gun, by torture, murder, as christians surpressed/destroyed others cilivilizations, cultures, etc. The caller is a decent sounding guy, but he calls to, in reality, defend those who marched ashore w the colonial monsters, defended (and participated in) murder/torture of forcibly, in voluntarially colonialized peoples. Nazism actually, in historic context, is a very solid analogy to the white/racist colonial takeovers of much of the world, surpression, murder of its peoples, destruction of their cultures, of which christian charletans were clear participants, not observers. This horrible legacy of colonialism, surpression, etc is absolutely part of/central to our nation's existence today, in the form of institution racism, etc. Further, Hitler actually wrote on how the holocast was actually inspired/taken from the example of white colonial/racist genocide in the Americas. I wrote it in that manner to get the response you gave me. Thank you!
"What do ya got for us?"
~ Don Baker
Another confused caller
But atleast he’s relatively Honest
That’s a rarity too
Religion - because thinking is hard...!!!
I have watched dozens of these of debates. The caller's always say the same thing. This crazy argument has been going on for over 2000 years and nothing's changed as far as the theist argument goes. It's always the same.
they always sound the same too. sometimes i think its the same person(s) constantly calling in with a different name half the time
troy lenz - actually these theist arguments have been going on for around 4,000 or so years, and still no valid arguments have emerged.
@Dd S "vaginal stained moron"? you should like a christian. Arguments for a "deity" HAVE been going for a minimum of 4,000 years. Evidence for more than 6,000 years. Just what are you quibbling about? Dd S [by the way do you know why I chose the Ki-Shi-Ru totem? What it stands for? I didn't think so sport.
@Dd S I see you have not seen fit to apologize, which seems strange. (Perhaps not since you are clearly ignorant, as is shown by your reply, pity)
@Dd S Thanks for proving your stupidity
I really liked how this conversation went. And i'm glad it ended well.
Faith is the absence of information
Faith is believing something without sufficient evidence.
?
Well, I'd say that faith is belief despite an absence if evidence. But you're on the right track.
Faith is the absence of rational thought and critical thinking skills in exchange for ignorance and nonsense
@David Anewman faith is not the interpretation of information. If one draws a conclusion from actual evidence that conclusion is by definition not based on faith.
The word “faith” is loaded. Even though it means thinking something is true when you can’t know it is, “faith” still sounds positive.
If we called it being deluded, that would be better.
Faith is belief in the absence of evidence. Belief despite evidence to the contrary is delusion. There is a significant distinction.
Faith is one of those words that are used and abused by theists to muddle the waters. "Spirit" is also another one.
@@truerealrationalist Significant overlap too.
@@EustaBAracer
Sure. And, I love it when people pretend that they _don't_ have faith and that absolutely _every_ proposition that they accept as more likely to be true than untrue actually has evidence to support it...because those who think this *are delusional.*
Faith is a word that is used in different contexts, telling a child about to sit an exam "I have faith in you" , between lovers there can be a belief in each other's faithfulness. There is the idea that we have faith in things like electricity working even though we may have no idea at all how it works. Often believers themselves are confused about what they mean and indeed what "faith" means within their "faith system."
I feel sorry for Zack, he gave us all he had and it was nothing.
poor guy bases his life on bullshit!
Some of these callers are just incredible... absolutely mind-blowing the way they redefine, move goal posts... Amazing.
Someone told me that you just need to "believe." I told them that there is a blue elephant in my backyard. Their response was, "I need to see that." And my response to that was, "Why can't you just "believe?"
Faith is not knowledge. To know something needs evidence.
Well at least we don't have faith based airline pilots. "Ever flown a 777?" "No, but I have faith I can do it!"
I think that's how Final destination started
Apologists continuously try to redefine words like faith and atheism in order to have their unfounded belief in a god equivalent to science in order to try and validate their beliefs.
Yes.
How is it unfounded?
@David Parry have i said anything about evidence? Mate, you can spin me around, choke me if u will but I'll never be able to show proof of God. Unfortunately, what you wrote was something already answered during the dark ages so atheist claims dont really shake my faith anymore.. Im a Catholic schoolboy gone wild yet reads, writes and actually practises what was taught since childhood.. I was given a mind who knows how to seek and learn, and i know that if i stop knowing the hows and whys, its pointless having that knowledge at all 😉 🙏 ❤️
@David Parry its a matter of choice, mate... Should i listen to a person full of hate? Of course.. But do i need to follow? I have my own path, you have yours.. God will show up if you want him too... Otherwise he'll still exist after we're dead anyway...
Issues youve mentioned occur in every society... It is something we all hate.. But do i remember being taught to harm others, to do evil against their will? I don't remember being schooled on that, it wasn't on the syllabus...
If you want to stop your search, fine... Im sticking with mine 😉🙏🌄
BTW Im roman Catholic.. Much as i love the bible, we're not bible thumping nuts 🤪... So feel free to roll your joints with it, i wouldn't go spastic... We have a country of books to read, to keep us learning about things we can't sense but know exist... Oh, and catty calling on Catholics as Child molesters... Dear Judy, please judge 😊🙏
@David Parry and i also became agnostic from believing the Bible too much.. Yup we share the same realities... The things you can't see are the same things i don't see.. But it is my choice to keep looking for that "reality" i can't see.. Some people stop, others keep going.. I became theist because i was born one.. Im baptised since infancy so lucky me 🎉i didn't have to go through the hassles of indoctrination because it is my destiny... That here i am, Catholic asfuck, accepting of everything, and continuously learning.. If you're content with what you believe and it makes you happy, stand by it.. 😉 🙏 Godbless brotha 🌄
God came to me in a dream last night and told me that he does not exist. What am I to make of that?
I appreciate that Zack was intellectually honest in the discussion.
I agree, and it kinda annoys me that this guy is far from the dumbest guy to ever call in
"If god talks to you and tells you something, how can you be sure that god spoke to you, and this wasn't just a creation of your brain?" - precisely. For me, this is the single strongest argument against the nonsense of supernatural belief.
Sometimes people think that "no" means "no". But I define "no" as "yes".
I believe it means yes. So it is yes.
Lol
No means yes, yes means anal
It's like they always say: sometimes enough is too much
"I wanna redefine faith."
And another religious apologist fails.
Faith is the abandonment of reason.
I love how TAE is the exact polar opposite to TV evangelist christian programs in every possible way. Not just the content obviously with facts and reason as opposed to claims and assumptions but the TEA crew are succinct as opposed to airy fairy and don't waffle on about nothing for hours. TEA don't appeal to emotions as opposed to christian programmings extremely dishonest grab at the heartstrings approach and TEA doesn't use soft focus (though in some close-ups that may be a good thing:) and grand ornate sets (may be a budgetary constraint) to try and fool the viewers into thinking the hosts are somehow superior or above them somehow.
Dude it's crazy going back to see these videos. I think history will look kind on this show and what they have exposed. Making people think about the world differently is sweet.
SeniorSaint what a perfect way to say that! ❤️
That was a particularly good call. I really appreciate the "That's a good point. I'll consider that and get back to you" approach. You rarely see that on this show or even in everyday life but it's so important.
agree, an honest caller that listens during the conversation and is able to explain his point of view clearly
Callers like him are brave to call..it is important to know what is going on in the world of religion..I think the team is very well equipped for these kind of calls..and I am learning how arguments are being built..
I have faith that I can go to work and actually do what i have planned. Then reality sets in when I get there
In the situation the caller describes, with a bunch of blind people and a few sighted people, you can still verify that the person who has this rare ability isn't just making shit up. "Okay, Joe, I know you couldn't hear it over the sound of the radio, but Sam just opened the door and came into the room." "Sam, ARE you there?" Yes, he's right. I did just come into this room." You can still test it empirically. Faith claims, on the other hand, are completely subjective. "I have a feeling in my heart." "I just know Jesus is talking to me." "I just know that God wants the best for me." Some vague, or even not so vague, feeling is indistinguishable for others from delusions and hallucinations. Faith has not been shown to be a legitimate method for determining what is real.
I have GREAT FAITH in Gravity. I Have NO faith in Elves. Much of "Faith is easy to drill through to the core and explain or deny." Faith is really nothing without evidence.
You don’t need faith in gravity because you see the theory of gravity being endorsed every second of every waking hour.
"some sort of sense experience" what amazes me is the mental gymnastics people go through to even explain their beliefs
Are the words faith and gullibility interchangeable?
Most religious God beliefs start with childhood indoctrination. Mine did. My faith grew out of that indoctrination and once in that, it is so hard to "see". To see the truth, to see the inconsistencies, to see the the contradictions. Add to that are all these pastors, ministers, and apologists explaining away all the problems with faith and religion, and you are steeped in the community and environment of church and other believers.
My faith collapsed while praying for an ill family member. While praying I realized none of my prayers as a faithful believer had ever been answered - not that the answer was no, but no response at all. As my faith was a totality, all tied together, it all totally collapsed in that moment: God, Jesus, Salvation, Heaven, Hell, all things supernatural, it all collapsed, it all went away, and I realized there was no God. If there is a God, it is certainly not the God of the Bible.
Russell Brooks
Honest story, thanks mate for sharing and I wish more people could “see” what you can :)
They can be depending on what your talking about. If you lived 2000 years ago and a scientist told you, I'm going to fly. Would you have believed him or would you have thought he was crazy? Or maybe others would have thought you were gullible for believing him if you had. It took some people certain amounts of faith to accomplish certain ideas. God is the same way. His work is manifested in ways the observer personally acknowledges.
@@xposed1333
No, what you're proposing is that ignorance of something is license for believing in the possibility of that thing. And your argument in support of that proposal is that sometimes we discover something despite our ignorance.
Alas, none of that is meaningful. It could equally be the case that Ignorance of something is license for believing it's impossible. In other words, a state of ignorance is simply not relevant. It's not something to celebrate.
Close.
If someone is talking to God because they were born with an innate ability to communicate with God, all we would need in order to believe that they have some ability that we don’t - is to have them relay detailed, specific information from this “God” they can communicate with and then watch it happen in real-time.
People don’t understand that their predictions become completely USELESS if they don’t reveal them until AFTER the predicted event has occurred (just like that old gypsy woman said!!!). They also need to be extremely specific - like winning lottery numbers from a specific date and not generic, non-descript crap like “there will be a car accident on this stretch of road sometime this month”. Finally, it needs to be repeatable and repeatedly accurate under scientific test conditions.
If they can pass all those hurdles successful - I am absolutely ready to believe that they have a sense or ability that I don’t - and my next question would be “Well, how do you know that this communication comes from God - as opposed to a Genie or Leprechaun or time traveller or Satan or even some naturally explainable glimpse into the future that your human, fallible brain just presents to you as conversation...”
Even with confirmed special abilities, there is a very long way to go before you can attribute it to “God” - so why is that the FIRST thing people think to say/claim when they hear a voice...
I'm going to redefine a term ad hoc and then I'm going to base all my line of reasoning on that, because you know... reasons.
I do really appreciate callers like Zack here who end by saying, "I'm going to think about what you said and call again sometime".
At least he was very reasonable about it all, good for him.
The most perfect theistic caller. Non-confrontational and non-defensive.
It has been preached since the 1980's, that 'faith is the belief in something without evidence'. The Wiccan author Scott Cunningham wrote: "Knowledge is far superior to belief. For belief is the why of the uninformed."
Which just goes to show...... no matter how far apart you are, a sensible respectful dialogue is always worth having.
Faith is belief in the absence of evidence and reason. It is not a path to truth. It leads only to delusion.
Gotta love Don’s anology to Spiderman
Russell gets credit for the Spiderman Analogy. Granted, Don addressed a different facet
Thanks Matt!!!
People don’t hear what they don’t want to... and if they want to hear it, they are taught to believe that “God” can hear their thoughts... I feel bad for them
Thought: test to try an convince a blind person that sight is a thing.
Table with multiple geometric objects. They agrees on the names of these objects. He may pick up and hold any one of these objects in his hands and have good enough of a grasp to know that no one else is holding it. Person with sight will then name the shapes from a distance away as many times until the repeatability of the test is enough to convince them.
(No real point to this. I just was trying to figure this out in my head. )
I think you’re spot on, this is a way to demonstrate the existence of a sense to someone who doesn’t have it. They will not be able to know what the experience of that sense is, but they will be warranted in believing that others have that sense
Hey, a conversation with someone who believes in faith that wasn't a complete dumpster fire! Nice!
I forget the attribution, but someone once said "if a person says they hear God speaking to them, we lock them up, but if a million people say the same thing, we build a church"
Faith is the belief in something you want to be true. No one has faith in something they don’t want to be true.
When you have to change definitions to make your argument, your argument is already drowning
good caller, interesting thought
I love you Matt and Don, you guys are so smart!
This guy's voice sounds amazingly like the old caller Mark or whoever that was concerned about children at his local Texas church, and their parents hating atheists.
Don Baker looks like a nice guy. @6:12 - I like the way he makes a statement and then looks incredibly pleased with himself.
Drawing answers from a hat is reliable way to get the right answer
He sounds an awful lot like Mark from the stone church, ya think??
It's amazing that so many other people aren't noticing this.
yes, Zack/Mark has a very unique voice.
@David Vogeley Mark was a character played by a troll
He does.
I’m not hearing it, I don’t think he sounds like Mark from Stone at all
I love this bit. They were kind to each other and willing to discuss openly and genuine, about this.
Run along now Zack.
Go see if you can find us a you-knee-corn.
He's a smart caller but he's confusing Confidence with Faith.
When you don't know what knowledge is... but, think you have it.
I have faith that God probably doesn't exist.
We all know that faith is a good way of finding out things.
Therefore it is probable that God does not exist.
And if God did exist, I would know from my special senses.
I'm gonna use this.🤣🤣🤣🤣
Or you could find out when you wake up and face him at the judgement throne. Like Stephen Colbert said ,better to look stupid than to burn for eternity.
@@xposed1333 How do you know? Some of us might enjoy being burned for eternity.
@@rembrandt972ify Time is on our side. Fortunately for now. I doubt anyone would want to burn for eternity.
@@xposed1333
If there is a loving understanding moral God, he won't harm me for not having enough evidence.
Blind people can get a little cube and a ball, pick one in each hand, shuffle them, ask sighted people where the cube is, they'll get it right 100% of the time, you can prove they have a sense you lack. You can get a person you really trust and get a red ball and a green ball, shuffle them in your hands, ask sighted people where the green sphere is, they'll get it right 100% of the times, you can prove they can recognize things beyond their shape and size, you have a case for color.
Don Baker-mate, if you did weights, you would look like He-Man.
By the POWER of GreySkull!!!!!!!!!!
Excellent!
I'll have to call you back when I have a scrapbook of snappier comebacks. I wasn't expecting this. You guys are fuckin good... Real good.
Just have faith in faith for your faith!
I would like Matt to do a magic trick, and once when he says something along the lines of "I have faith that when I drop this pop bottle, it will fall to the table." And when he lets go it just hovers there.
Zack’s desperation is not an attractive trait.
If you guys had patreon I would throw down$$
They do...
This is a thought bubbling up listening to the conversation. In personal relationships we often have faith in the other person, based not so much on positive evidence but on the lack of negative evidence. We have faith in our partners because we love them and have no reason not to put our faith in them. Sometimes the evidence proves that faith baseless. At least some of the Christians I know, I think probably the majority, do talk about their faith in personal and even emotional language. So often the callers seem to struggle to look at their "faith" logically or even understand what point the hosts are trying to make perhaps to them the belief just isn't based on even the concept of logic. (Though most seem to be convinced that their beliefs are inherently logical, and self evidently true.)
"IF...90% of the world is blind..."
Kills any rational discussion.
"IF" from a theistic apologist is a general conversational killer.
If you've ever looked at a picture of a galaxy, chances are you looked at an image that used invisible light, either Xray or UV or IR. And yet we know, without the ability to perceive these wavelengths of light, that they exist and have demonstrated it, by converting the information into something we can perceive. In this case, it would be to convert invisible lightwave spectrums into visible ones. The same concept can be used to covert anything we can not directly sense.
What the hell are you talking about?
MrsRazor66 The caller was trying to argue early on that essentially there are lots of things we can't see or sense that exist and therefore god can exist. But an example of those things would be the X-ray images of stars, and yet we can collect evidence of these things we can't otherwise sense and are smart enough to convert that into data we can sense. We can't do that with god.
My point is we know things we can't directly sense exist because there is still evidence of them existing, but the same can not be said about god.
Edward Overkleeft It is by definition the total or partial absence of visible light. How the hell do you define it?
Edward Overkleeft If you think you are so smart with this age old BS argument, call the show. But seriously, I think you need to research darkness. It is a perception issue, and very much dependant on what our eyes can see. Other animals can see in levels of light we can not, and our ability to see in the dark is tied directly to evolution and the development of rods in our eyes. Darkness is not something people measure, we measure the levels of light. When it is below a certain threshold we consider it dark, as in it is hard for humans to see. Even the Bortle Dark sky measurements are measuring how bright it is in a specific location.
Edward Overkleeft Reflectivity is what gives objects their colors, depending on how much of certain lightwaves they absorb. Have you ever looked at a lightbulb? Or a flame? You are not seeing reflected light, you are seeing direct/emitted light. So NO, not all light we see is reflected light.
Have you ever eaten a bland sandwich? What made it bland? The bland particles? No, absence of spices makes it bland. Just because we have a word to describe the absence of something doesn't mean there is no scientific explanation or that it requires a direct presence of a substance. There are no dark particles.
Have you ever heard of the "camera obscura"? It is a simple thing you can do yourself at home. A hole in a box or a wall of a dark room that looks out at a scene. With no lenses or anything, you will naturally see a flipped version of the image of the outside inside the room or box. That is the basic building blocks of how eyes developed in sea creatures. There's are several sources that talk about the development of the eye and how they EVOLVED, just because one scientist from the 19th century didn't fully understand the eye didn't mean we haven't figured out more since then. Get it out of your head that we worship the man, he started something, but we have since taken those ideas much farther. Also, Darwin DID admit the eye, no matter how improbable to him, COULD have been evolutionarily possible. In fact he says it in the same quote you are referencing, why don't you look at the entire quote and (as Christians love to say to us) stop taking it out of context.
"Spiritual reality" :D
I suggest watching at x1.5 speed
Faith is a word that people use..rather than be truthful and simply say....I WANT this to be true, so I am going to hope it is true, even say I KNOW it is true....even though there is no evidence.
The blind can test the claim that some people can see based on their claim. They can set up an experiment where a sighted person could identify objects at a distance that would be impossible to interact or detect for someone who could not see.
Set up objects out of sight of the subject in a space like a shooting range. Have them describe the shape and perceived material, have them estimate distances between objects and walls. These things the blind could know without sight. If the subjects observations at a distance conform to reality, the blind would be justified in the conclusion that some individuals can see.
You can easily prove vision exists to blind people. Ask the blind person to hold up whatever number of fingers they want and tell them how many they are holding up.
v5red
You can prove it to people without talking to them as well. Helen Keller was both blind and deaf and ended up writing 12 books. Admittedly, it wasn't easy to get Helen Keller to understand that most people have two more senses than she had, but eventually she caught on.
I have such a hard time believing these callers are real people.
I know of a class who had a project of describing colours to their blind classmate so they could understand the concept and pick a favourite colour. (They chose purple). You absolutely can explain colour to a blind person, it just takes some inventiveness.
You assume they succeeded in communicating colours? based on what? Teacher's opinion>? blind kid interviewed? scientist studied? not saing youre wrong. saying i dont buy it. but id need more than 2 lines from a stranger on yt to accept.
3 years has passed. I wonder if this guy still hold his initial position or if he actually learned something from this.
It sure is now you're learning
Faith is like the substitute teacher in school who does roll call, and the students answer for each other to confuse the teacher. Then for the rest of the class, the teacher thinks they know the student's names, all while being completely wrong.
They stop watching when the first doubts start popping up.
Multiple emails that some went away...and stopped believing. and others who kept watching. and stopped believing. many kept believing too. just saying.
I can explain light and how it works to a blind person. I can teach them about how it originates via photons ejected from a matter, how the different wavelengths work, how it travels, and how it is received by the eyes. In fact, no one can discern an individual photon, but any educated person is familiar with my description.
If you hear that 7 years later you see the beginning of people who live more and more by their "own true" which leads to what we have today alternative facts and realities.
I have Spidey-senses too; I can always tell when there's danger nearby as verified by the fact that I can always find it if I keep looking and asking and searching and baiting. But it's verified 100% of the time to be accurate.
The bit right at the end there, this exactly the world we'd have if there wasn't a God
So based on this caller, I have "faith" I will win the Powerball someday. Therefore, it's knowledge....Yeah....👌
Okay now we're going to argue about what the word faith means. I've only heard this one about a hundred times. The hoops that these callers will jump through trying to justify their delusions are unbelievable. Sense experience is reliable? Well I guess all The magicians are out of business then huh? How many times has this callar been fooled by a magician? I guess the magician must be God huh?
I can't watch these videos anymore. It's difficult for me to realize I live in a world in which there are people out there who are so far out there, and they can still vote and drive and raise children. Mind-boggling! Like Ken Hamm's Ark Experience. Utterly unbearable.
SPOT ON KEN.....WHY DO THESE PEOPLE OVER COMPLICATE THINGS......
Not just some people but most people! Very scary
Here's a question for people of faith who listen to and watch programs like this one on a regular, semi-regular or even sporadic basis over an extended period, let's say, just for the sake of a number...18 months and over?
If the answer is that your faith is a little shaky, or that you're curious to understand atheism as defined by atheists as opposed to by your pastor/preacher/priest, I get it.
But if you believe your faith to be bedrock solid, what's the attraction in spending time listening to atheists and theists go back and forth?
If you read this and answer, thank you in advance for your indulgence.
@David Anewman You don't believe in Newman?
Zach is confused but he definitely sounds intelligent.
With a little effort he just might break free.
Zack keeps saying.."i think.." when clearly he does not..
This man is able to tell me how many fingers I am holding up without touching my hands! Like a witch!
It would be better in the interest of keeping the conversation focused if Don just kept quiet.
What complete tripe ... "Well, how about this, then?" I think these folks call in for points in their biblical classes.
Anyone who can show one scintilla of evidence for ANY supernatural phenomena or ANY gods will be rewarded immediately via Paypal in the amount of $5,750 USD. This is no joke, even if no one has yet met the standard for evidence.
At the end of the day, month, year, decade, century....... You still will have your $5,750. Any takers yet?
@@richardvastine7486 A few have put their best feet forward but failed miserably to meet the burden of evidence. As anticipated I will not be parted anytime soon from my bankroll.
P F
"Anyone who can show one scintilla of evidence for ANY supernatural phenomena or ANY gods will be rewarded immediately via Paypal in the amount of $5,750 USD."
James Randi (The Amazing Randi) had a million dollar prize for anyone who could do this. No one ever collected.
Aha!
The old change the definition of faith trick.
I lucid dream, I must be an angel
I love that they started talking about Spidey Sense .....
I can sort of see where this caller's coming from if he's trying to say, as I think he is, that faith can result in belief in facts, but if it does it's absolutely coincidental. If someone's faith tells them that an object dropped will fall at 9.8m/s^2 because fairies will pull it down at that speed, that's a factually true belief about the rate at which things fall, but it offers no useful understanding of why.
What does any of this have to do with the fact that you can't verify the existence of any god? Jesus creeping shit, Matt has a lot of patience for these same arguments over and over