WATCH Before You Buy - ARC Studio vs Sonarworks Sound ID
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
- By popular demand, here's my unbiased video comparing the ARC Studio System vs Sonarworks Sound ID.
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Timestamps
0:00 Intro
00:34 Calibration process comparison
02:25 Measurement Results
03:02 Sound quality comparison
03:33 Plugin interface differences
05:20 Customization Options
06:37 Additional Features
07:50 Hardware vs. Software
08:30 Headphone calibration
10:37 Profile switching process comparison
11:17 Price Comparison
12:00 Conclusion
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I’m not experienced enough to think I could hear any difference but as Cubase pro comes with control room then SoundID is more convenient as I have specific profiles for each set of monitors and control room allows you to switch monitors with just 1 button which has its own inserts (& profiles). Also I don’t need any more boxes, cables and power lines cluttering my workspace! I’m keeping my SoundID 😍
There you go! That's perfect for you! Thanks for sharing :-)
I've been using Sonarworks Sound ID since the Adam Audio A-series speakers were introduced almost two years ago. The Adams' built-in DSP means there is no plugin on your DAW session (so there is no need to switch anything off when bouncing) and no extra hardware on the desk. I have been nothing but delighted with the results I've been getting in my less-than-ideal room from the Adam/Sonarwork combination so I see no need to look elsewhere. Chris: I do appreciate the comparison and I'm glad there's a less expensive alternative to the Trinnov system. Cheers!
Same love it😎 A7Vs Just Export the patch to each monitor Game Changer.👌🏽
Does it work with adam a77x?
@@oldtimer666 Nope only with the new series
If you're buying a product to optimise your room then want to adjust the balance of the process and tweak the EQ you'd be better of saving your money and just using REW (which is free) to read your room and then strap an EQ on your output to adjust to your taste. Otherwise just let the correction do its job. Enjoy.
Note that this video is a comparison between 2 systems, and not a suggestion to add EQ on top of room correction, cause I do lean towards your opinion on this since I don't use EQ on my correction, but I've seen some pro mixers fine tuning their correction with a bit of EQ. I guess everyone has its own workflow :-)
It's not only about the EQing but also about the phase between the channels. You cannot reach a results like Sonarworks or Arc with just an EQ correction.
That's right @DropoutSound
if you master enough to use eq and phase in REW, thats enough, because the curve they match to is known to none, but REW is like transparent in choosing the house curve. the neutral studio has many curves as per many people opinion, i mean the greats in audio too and for headphones its way different in choosing the target. so research more to find what’s right than blindly choosing a non transparent calibration methods
@@DropoutSoundactually you can, changing phase is also part of EQ. I measured my cheap 305p mk2 and corrected both the amplitude and phase, you need some fir filters but that's still considered just EQ if you ask me.
Now a colleague has a Trinnov system, and another got the new Arc and brought it over to compare. Spent a few hours checking it out, and the Arc was very close in calibration to the Trinnov, with Trinnovs super expensive measurement mic(Arc mic was used for Arc system). The Trinnov was better off course, more accurate and detailed. But for only 300$ vs $4000, it was crazy how close Arc got. And you get processing from the box itself instead of having to flip between plugins and program's, it forgetting to turn it off before you bounce(done that a few times with Sonarworx)... Its gonna be my new go to!
That is interesting, and good to know! Thanks for sharing!
Finally people can realize how much they were ripped off from Trinnov
@@mariacosta2211It's different technology and there will be people with the budget to support companies like Trinnov who are leading the sector in overall results. The best is expensive. Arc Studio seems awesome for most people.
My problem is, why is Trinnov 12x more expensive. I really want to justify spending 12x more bc it “should” be better and I’m hearing that it’s not. Ehh I guess buy the ARC and see what results I get
@@Chaz_r because it also corrects for phase and other things - not just a glorified auto-EQ :) That said, I just ordered the ARC. SoundID destroyed the transients and dynamics for me - excited to try ARC.
Nice and fair comparison IMHO. Thanks Chris.
Thanks a lot, Tatiana! Glad you liked it :)
Thanks Chris! Perfect Summary :)
Very welcome!
Hey ! Great videos and information you supply !!! I really enjoy your channel. I am interested in room correction. Here is what I have brewing in my studio. A few months ago I purchased ARC 3 and the mic. I decided not to calibrate just yet as I have been juggling tween 5 different manufacture models to learn which would be a better fit of monitors for me and my room. After a few months of testing I finally chose to go with ADAM A77H and Kali IN8 and a pair of Avantone actives. My way of thinking it seems that the ARC 4 would make more sense , as I could have different profiles set up on the hardware . If I went with Sonarworks, the ADAMS have the technology built in for calibration , however I would need to software up the game in order to bounce through the different sets. I’m interested in your thoughts on this. Thank you very much !!! Love the videos !
Hi Chris, it is work with 2.1 system? Also with subwoofer.
Thank you.
Right after your first review I bought it on amazon Canada for $199.(probably a big listing mistake.) The day after it was not available anymore. If I knew it was that good I had bought all 5 units available at that price !😉. Thanks a lot, it makes a big difference here in my room and it will change my workflow forever !
That's so cool! Thanks for letting me know!
I got the second last one for $199 too! I already owned the ARC 3 but the upgrade would have been more expensive!
Is there anything similar to these that can read a room to say how well it it for recording vocals, mainly for singers.
I use Dirac, has phase correction delay compensation, can load REW measurements, really good FIR filtering, has four outputs, digital inputs and an excellent stereo field. 👌🏼
i wonder about vibrations via the floor and mic stand without a shock mount. any thoughts
arc has 1 pair output. how you connect multiple monitors to it? i have 1 pair genelec and 2.1 system with dedicated amp which is connect to audient id24 by optic. is it possible to connect both to arc?
I have both. I find ARC 4 more natural sounding. Very noticeable! Love the outboard processing.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who finds it a bit more natural :-) Thanks for watching!
@@mixdownonline So do I, but that doesn't mean I accepts wasting money on michrophone(s) I don't need!
@@svenisaksson3970 For every measurement system you need a calibration microphone with a know frequency response. There is no way around that. A normal microphone is not usable in this case, because of the difference in pick-up patterns. The ARC software (but also other room correction software) is expecting a microphone with a known frequency response and a know pic-up pattern to make correct measurements. There is no way around that.
So - No, you don't waste money on a microphone you don't need, because you absolutely need a calibrated microphone for your software to work.
Thanks for the video! Couple of things:
You mentioned latency for recording on Sound Id...I have not noticed this at all?
Also, it would be good to mention how Sound Id works with Cubase control room. This is the killer functionality for me, and Arc would not offer this?
Yes, latency when recording with Sound ID ON, which is normal since it's a plugin that by itself will generate very low latency, but the DAW and other plugins in the session will also add latency.
Thank you!
Great video :)
I use a few outboard sequencers and drum machines, and the no latency option sounds like a great idea for this! Love my Sonarworks, but think i will give Arc a go.
Bonus question; does anyone know if there are custom profiles one can use for any of the systems? Like Sonarworks comes with "car1" "ns11" etc. I make music for house/techno clubs, does anyone know if something like that excists or would even be practical?
I haven't tried the Arc and probably won't, but I'll just say if you rely on mixing in the headphones like I have to, SoundID is the way to go. In fact, I found that that individually calibrated headphones (they offer some for sale or you can send yours in) was a tremendous step up for my mixing. I really do love the idea of offloading the processing to a box as the ARC does, butwe can't all have the magic pony we want, can we?
I use a pair of JBL 4328 Monitor. Calibrating system inside 😂
The 4328P features RMC™ Room Mode Correction, JBL's exclusive technology that automatically analyzes and corrects the response of each speaker in the room for absolute accuracy at the mix position.
Nice one , Thx what's the latency on sound ID, if you have it inserted on the Cubase monitor section ?
It depends on which mode you put it. If you put the filter at 0 latency, you will get 0.1 latency from the plugin on top of the latency generated by Cubase, and other plugins, and the buffer size.
I'm trying to choose between vsx and arc 4 system...any thoughts guys?
I have SoundID and am waiting for ARC Studio 4 delivery tomorrow. SoundID works great - except for the CRASHES all the time on system level correction. I also don't understand your comment about bypassing for headphones, do you have it in-line before the headphone output? Me no. Sound ID of course does need to be bypassed or switched to a headphone profile. I don't understand your liking for a dry/wet mix knob either, I want a FLAT response from my main studio monitors... Getting rid of the SoundID latency (20-50 ms in linear phase, 17-20 ms mixed mode - or no latency and phase shift, see the site for details) and considerable load that SoundID puts on the system is a plus for me for ARC4. We'll see how it goes. LATER: I got ARC4 Studio and tested it for two days with a quick 7 way measurement. Very satisfied, so integrated it fully with full 21 way measurements for my two monitor systems. It has replaced Sonarworks for now. I also measured the post EQ environment after correcting with ARC4 Studio - using Sonarworks - and found no significant difference, flat response. So it's pretty good for the price.
I have SoundID. Using it for 5 years. SoundID has never worked without issues on my Windows or macOS platforms and using both Pro Tools and Studio One. Constantly something not working, constant upgrades doesn't fully fix everything. I'm still using it. Torture. It's SystemWide causing almost all of my headaches.
Finally someone made this. Thanks ❤
You're welcome!
Can you use the ARK Systeme to calibrate a room of a little church (like 100 feet by 50 feet) ? Not only for a studio ?
Have you used REW to measure their results after addig the eq? See if they deliver what they say.
Actually no. I never worked with REW. I'll check it out, thanks!
How do you use Arc with Monitor Controller with 3 monitors and sub features?
Yeah I’d like to know that too. I have 2 sets of monitors and a sub all being controlled by an Audient Nero controller. I’m really liking my setup and would really like to keep everything as is, but just calibrated.
It looks like ARC doesn't correct the high end dip (12.5khz) on the Kali IN-8's very well--did you find that to be the case? I have the IN-5's and they have the same weird high end dip but Sonarworks flattens it right out (confirmed with REW).
You can add a bell eq to correct it, i think arc avoids doing it so its more natural and avoids headroom loss
In producelikeapro's video they did mess w the eq in arc to smooth out the in5 they measured
Thank you for sharing Chris always bringing the good lesson : D
My pleasure!
Hey Chris - why would you bypass the ARC when you switch to headphones? The hardware goes between your interface and monitors.
because he's not using it 😅
Good question, that's because my ARC goes to my monitor controller, and this is where I connect my headphones into
@@mixdownonlinenever understood why you don’t run the ARC after your monitor controller? Especially if you have multiple speakers, ARC only calibrates one pair and you’d be imparting the correction on all speakers running ARC before the speaker selection.
Hi, did you tried measure arc after calibration with sonarworks ?
I did both back to back. Important to bypass all calibration make making a new one.
@@mixdownonlineWhat I mean is that you measure with ARC your system and then re-measure the corrected sound. So you measure the ARC with Sound ID, even from a laptop. You re-measure the corrected room. That way, in principle, you could measure the goodness of the system. Besides that the animal sounds would be clearly visible, but it could just be in my head:-).
This cam be a good test to do.. do the measurements with the calibration applied.. so we can check the results of the calibration.
I've been using Sonarworks since October '22. So for over a year. I had trouble using it as a system output. I.e. virtual soundcard. Lots of crashes. The plugin was stable. But that meant I didn't have room correction on any source that didn't route through my DAWs (I use both Cubase and Logic). I configured a way to route my system audio through virtual inputs on my interface which solved the listening problem, but the software still gave me trouble.
When I saw the ARC Studio I jumped on purchasing it right away. After recording and mixing several projects over the past 3 days, I'm sold on the ARC Studio system. I may be fooling myself, or maybe the configuration setup was better with the ARC Studio, but I noticed a tighter sound with better imaging. For me and my system (MacBook M1 Max, Apollo interface, Adam A7x speakers) it's a much better solution. I'm sticking with the ARC Studio.
Can you run Arc only as a plug-in in Logic, avoiding the whole system-wide approach that Sonarworks takes? Sonarworks was messing up my audio output too much to keep using.
My question is, if u have a big hole at 50 Hz how u can fill it with Eq so that the response is more linear? I thought its only possible with new placement of the speakers or listening position, because its a problem of cancellation
That's a good question. Yes, I do have a Low bass dip that can partially be "fixed" with Room Correction, but this actually shows me where I need to work more and fix with acoustic panels, and placement for better results. By the meantime, I like to check my low end on my headphones.
@@mixdownonline i had a friend of mine who measures rooms professionally, he measured my room and he told me that dips are not correctable with eq cause i had a dip of 10 db at 90, so we had to reposition the speakers and listening position to reduce it of 5 db and than eq the midrange reducing it of 2 db to get a good frequency response
@@michaelleitner4334 Not all dips/peaks (room modes) can be resolved with EQ, but you can for sure put a dent in them with placement, absorption, + EQ. Subwoofer placement is key. In my current room (10x11x8, ouch), it turns out in the corner behind my chair raised about 3 feet off the ground with the subwoofer firing downward gave me the most even response in the low-end. You gotta move things around and take a ton of measurements to find the sweet spot, but it's possible even in a shit room like mine.
Hi,
What about the phase ? Is there any improvement ?
Best
Seems just a bit better on the ARC side, but that's just me.
Hi Chris,
I have a simple question.
Studios spend 1000's on microphones for this and microphones for that, yet these calibration microphones cost approx $100.
If these calibration mics are good enough to tell us how good/bad (for want of a better expression) our speakers are shouldn't they be good enough for recording everything?
Because it is not important for these microphones to sound detailed, dynamic, with character etc. The only thing that matters is that they accurately represent the amplitude of the sound for each frequency.
My question is with SoundID is it still useful to calibrate your headphones?
You have to send them your headphones if you want it individually calibrated. Otherwise it's just their presets, which isn't worth the price when you can get hp correction for free with AutoEQ.
Just uninstalled Sonarworks because it was messing up basic sound output on my computer. Wondering if Arc can function only as a plugin. Sonarworks attempting to adjust the whole system’s audio complicates things in a way that I don’t need. Just want my daw to have the option for correction.
How does the ARC Studio System work with multiple sets of speakers? Nice Video btw.
And one minute later you answered my question in the video....
LOL!
Can you use multiple ARC devices simultaneously?
I don't see why not, it would probably show the list of installed device on top anyway to load your profile, but once it's loaded, you don't need the software.
The biggest difference is that if you use the software only version, sonar works also affects Windows system sounds, with ARC i had to add a vst pedalboard and special sound drivers so that any sounds including spotify and youtube would be corrected. Of course the new dsp box is superior, because you can set nd forget. And don’t need to bypass it whenever you are on headphones.
Thanks for your comment, bro!
Sonarworks for me as i have the new Adam A7Vs with built in Sonarworks patch importing right into each monitor and then Close Sonarworks app on the new A Series Adams have this the S series might have been updated, and the only other Monitors to have built in Sonarworks built into each monitor are the Fluid Audio Image II DSP monitor is the Future as you can bypass hardware boxes like this .
What I find disappointing is how the Kicks sound with SoundID, but I do not know if in aRC studio kicks sound better
I wonder how long would it take for someone to come up with an audio interface with this dsp built in, this box is basically a ad/da converter with some dsp/eq….universal audio could breath some life into their dsp interfaces…
It's already started, Audient just released a new interface called Oria, and it has Sound ID intergraded.
RME has a global EQ in their boxes that can read calibration measurements and effectively act in the manner you describe.
There is 1 important nuance that you did not mention. SoundID can be used on a PC WITHOUT a hardware sound card, as is done with ARC, since the SoundID program can emulate a virtual sound card inside the computer itself.
no latency ?
I HAVE THEM BOTH my opinion ARC gave me more acceptable sound compared with Sonarwoks
That's good to know, thanks for you comment :-)
@mixdownonline by the way I am using ARC since 2007 or 2008 not exactly remember
Nice comparison.
I want to make potential buyers aware that "how the correction sounds" should probably not be your main concern. Strangely enough many reviews online (especially on UA-cam) focus on this aspect.
Your main concern should be "how do your mixes translate before and after using the product?"
You can do all kinds of stuff to make sound from your monitors "better", but if your mixes translate worse than the product isn't worth any money.
I've wasted a good amount of time with Sonarworks because I somehow decided that I should learn to work with it while denying the red flags: my mixes started to translate badly. Only after talking to my mastering engineer, I understood that 'it wasn't me' it was the too heavy working "correction". Ditched it and my mixes translated properly again. Now YMMV so I'm not saying or recommending to not use a product like this at all, I'm just saying: be aware that "sounding good" should not be your point of reference to decide whether to use a product like this.
I think I will get the Slate Digital VSX instead. ✌🏻✌🏻
There's a huge misconseption regarding latency with the two softwares. The Arc DOESN'T have zero latency, while Sonarworks DOES.
Here's what IK Multimedia state on their website regarding latency:
• Natural Phase mode: 1.4 ms
• Linear Phase mode: 42 ms
Meanwhile, here are Sonarworks' latency numbers:
• Zero Latency: 0 ms
• Mixed: 17.2 ms
• Linear Phase: 45.3 ms
In the end, the latency difference between the two softwares on the "Zero/Natural" modes is indistinguishable, and should not be the reason to buy one software over the other.
However, the fact that Sonarworks has the extra "Mixed" option (which is basically 99% Linear Phase Mode with much lower latency) could be seen as a big advantage; unless somehow IK Multimedia managed to produce similar sound quality with their "Natural Phase mode" which would be surprising.
We need a real phase test with all modes, not just a subjective "I kinda think this one sounds more natural to me" assessment with no additional info.
Soundid has an edu option for students.. making software plus microphone €179
I use headphones so sonarworks, works for me.
Awesome!
waiting for sonarworks' reply ;-)
The winner: mini dsp + rew 😀
Never tried it!
@@mixdownonline you should
@@mixdownonline Was just writing about this before I saw your comment. Mini-DSP + REW + Convology XT / Equalizer APO = best option in my book.
Or just get a set of monitors that load a sound ID profile and sound ID has every advantage of arc without the extra set of AD/DA conversion.
I really don't mind extra AD/DA conversion, I would not pay several thousands $ only for that. In 2024, high quality converter chips are pretty cheap, and accessible to manufacturers, so good converters are also in cheaper gear :-)
Sonarworks compensate with 180 phase curve.. too much processing. Arc compensate more gently, especially where the phase cancellation dips appears. Arc really sounds less processed and more natural.
Thanks for your comment, I so think it's sounds a bit more natural
and chris what about 3-way speakers? sound id not support 3 way speakers
Yes, Sound ID supports any types of speakers. It doesn't matter if they are 2-ways or 3-ways
@@mixdownonline thank you
I bought ARC Studio and after 3 days of testing and tinkering, I conclude it is cheap garbage. The software is terrible. The unit is noisy. It randomly increase the volume of the right speaker by a couple of dB. I will be returning it. What a total waste of time that was.
is there any chance you doing something wrong? i just bought and not set it up yet, i hope it works for me.
@@leadpain I hope it works for you too. I checked the results carefully using a calibrated microphone and REW. At first, I thought ARC might be helpful, but it certainly wasn't. I don't know, but I suspect that they may have a quality control problem. It's hard to believe that the way my unit behaved is the way it is supposed to work. In any case, I gave up on the product after a considerable amount of time trying to get it to work properly.
ARC4 Is ARC3 + hardware, the CPU weight Is low and with ARC3 you don't have double dac and adc conversione. It was Born probably to win the piracy. Arc 3 Is cheaper than ARC4 but now Is not more available, I bought on Novembre 2023 😊 and happy. No problem for headphones using two separate buses, and Sienna, Vhs or other headphones correction, cheaper than SoundId as well 😉
I’ve decided not to install SoundID after getting my new computer. As other have said, running as system audio I kept having weird stuff going on, particularly after upgrading my interface. So I’ve been debating some kind of in-speaker DSP calibration instead as the next upgrade to my system. I have Neumann monitors but not the newer DSP models, trying to convince myself to get their sub and MA1 so I can piggy back on them, but it’s a big investment. This seems like a decent and needed stopgap financially. Curious if anyone has opportunity to compare MA1 calibration vs Arc4, even if a niche query.
Sound id works in the real world for superb mixing results🔥
Yes it does!
In the real world ?
Where is that exactly,
I’m looking for it for a long time 😂
@@Studio22mix The real world is where your mix translates to other systems same as what you hear in the studio No 22 :)) ... enjoy the real world...welcome 😀😊
@@a.ro6 that’s why I don’t use sonarworks, because it sucks 🫡
@@a.ro6 Yeah thanks, I know my studio sounds great because I don’t use sonarworks 🫡
Why would you EQ to flat? You are not in free-space? EQing to flat in a room with some absorption is an error in calibration or room correction. Normal room acoustics would include reflective and absorptive coefficients as well as loudspeaker directivity in order to calculate the proper transfer function or room curve. This is BASIC ACOUSTICS. If you ignore things like the Schroeder frequency based on the room volume, dimensions and loudspeaker location then you are making an error that results in an inaccurate response from the loudspeakers. I see this often in auto EQ systems. Free field response is anechoic and diffuse field response is all reflective. A normal room/studio/listening environment is somewhere in between. Meaning a proper response will NOT BE FLAT. Is this something that many audio engineers do not know?
🎉 Exactly most people talk about flat response which is the stupidest thing to say or try imo 😂 (and then complain about to much high frequencies or a lack of base) Correction to a house target curve like Harman target for speakers isn’t a flat line, it isn’t called a curve to represent a flat anechoic line.
Also when applying room correction you need to lower the target curve below your measurement curve, we want to cut frequencies and NOT boosting dips or nuls. If applied correctly you can achieve great results 👌🏼
That’s so wierd to put something between hi end converter and speakers to double adda convention in the studio… definitely its for enthusiasts non for pros… I was using krk ergo in the past. The same idea, but conveters went too bad
I agree, I would prefer a digital input on this, but I don't agree that this is only for enthusiasts, and not for "pros". I've been a pro music producer/mixer for more than 20 years, and I use it, no problem ;-)
@@mixdownonline But the point is still, people pontificate for months over which D>A to buy spending thousands in the process and then are expected to stick a cheap?/unknown AD>DA in their monitoring chain. Either high quality conversion matters or it does not - you can't have it both ways!
@@mixdownonline let’s renew thread a couple of month later
@LondonSteveLee Quality of converters has come a long way, I don't think it matters much today like it did 15 years ago. High quality converter chips are way cheaper than they used to, so very accessible for manufacturers. So the quality of converters are not what makes a device more expensive than cheaper ones. And even "if" there was a 2% difference in sound quality by going into an extra AD/DA, I'm still altering the sound with room correction way more than any converter would, so a non issue as far as I'm concerned. It's a good discussion though :-)
better off treating your room before using any of these solutions.
Totally, that's always the first step!
The mic tracking in itself is a gimmick. The calibration software knows where the mic is located by calculating the delay from teh siginal it picks up from each speaker. The exact position of the microphone during calibration is arbitrary.
That makes sense
Thumbs down to IK Multimedia and ARC Studio. Instructions (what instructions??) were a mystery. Their online registration & activation process is a bloody nightmare!! After a week of constant failures, I gave up in frustration and returned the product... and I'm NOT sorry.
hey there I am! lol
The problem with the ARC system isn't technical. It's IK Multimedias buisness practises! They won't sell you the box only!!!! If you want to switch from SoundID to ARC they force you to waste money on buying their mic, despite the fact that the software allow you to use your excisting Sonarworks microphone.
If you want to buy multiple boxes, for a multi monitor setup, you're forced to waste money on multiple unnecissary mics (atr $50-60 a pop) as well. This is BAD!
I'd love to buy the ARC Studio, but NOT if I'm being ripped off!
I've written IK Uultimedia and complaines about this practice. I urge more people to do the same. Maybe that can cause IK Multimedia to get their act together, ans let us buy the box (and software) only.
That's a fair complaint, glad you reach out to them on this!
I replied to you on the Sweetwater post where you say the exact same thing. You are spreading FUD. Right on the ik multimedia website you select "versions" then you can choose to buy Just the box, WITHOUT the mic for 50 less ($249) so do better research before you start yelling at clouds like an old man.
Is this true? I thought I could easily use the mic from Sonarworks and use it with the ARC 4 software. No?
@@putte_stuttgart Yes you can, but IK Multimedia still force you to waste money on a microphone, you don't need.
@@m00t1 You are the one spreading FUD. You can only buy the box by itself as an UPDATE, if you are a rqistered user of the ARC4 software, with a microphone. Get your facts straight, before you insult others!