ROOM CORRECTION SHOUTOUT | Sound iD vs ARC Studio vs Neumann MA1 vs Trinnov Nova
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- 🔥I tested four popular room correction and speaker calibration systems to find the most suitable for you! Sonarworks Sound iD vs IK Multimedia ARC 4 Studio vs Neumann MA1 system, vs Tronniv Nova.
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CHAPTERS
00:00 Which is The BEST Room Correction Software?
00:41 Acoustic Treatment Vs Room Correction Software
02:37 Device Overviews & Prices
06:24 Set-Up Time & Ease Of Use
09:45 Resulting Sound, Accuracy & Listening Area
15:00 Sound iD Software Walkthrough
19:04 ARC Studio Software Walkthrough
21:17 Neumann MA1 Software Walkthrough
22:58 Trinnov Nova Software Walkthrough
29:16 Additional Features & ATMOS
33:42 Room Correction Measuring TIPS
34:37 WHICH is BEST & RIGHT for YOU?! - Розваги
Trinnov's additional license thing is highly questionable. You've got the hardware already, but you aren't allowed to use it to its full extend unless you pay another $1000 for two more outputs. Fuck this.
Yeh, it’s a bit shit.
Yeah that is grimy especially for how much the hardware costs. Great mixes that we grew up listening to existed well before Trinnov was a thing. I am sure it is a great unit, but not for that price point to only charge you more to use features already built into the hardware so it is neutered on day one.
Good review, Ed!
I have both Sound ID and ARC Studio. ARC Studio blows Sound ID away, in MY room. I have a small 15'x20' room with a short hallway about 12'x8' opening to the room. I corrected low end standing waves with some extra brick that I had, which helped.
My cloud isn't as dense as I would like, but it helps.
ARC really opened every frequency up and the phase alignment is now on point, giving a more accurate reference.
IK media is not paying for this endorsement.
Yeh, the difference is remarkable. If you can dial in the low end, it’s a very good system.
So, I got mine and was like; why doesn't it come with a rackmount kit, or something! So, after talking to IK Multimedia and saying there is not one, I decided to do some research and came up with this under-desk mount. Easy install, secure and most of all it works lol...! I mounted it to my right within arm's length, so I can use the bypass at ease without having to take up unneeded space on top of my mixer and desk.... I wonder if they thought about this when they made it? Who wants this little box sitting on the desk? In addition, when you try to use the bypass just sitting on the desk, you have to hold the box and then push the button, otherwise it will slide backwards, or place it against the wall or something keeping it from moving. Overall, awesome unit, save me from taking the software off the mixbus at bouncing and many times forgetting to do so...lol! Anyway, I got two in the shipment, so I msg them, and they said to just keep it or give it away. Msg me, and it's yours, just cover the shipping cost! Cheers, love the channel and content. Learned a lot!
ARC Hardware Under-Desk Mounting Kit:
reverb.com/item/81951079-mountz-ik-multimedia-arc-studio-room-correction-hardware-specific-mounting-kit-with-mountz-locking-system-2024-black
This is a great review of all the major options. Thanks so much!
Thanks, hope it was insightful.
I have the Neumann KH120 with KH750, but I had always done manual correction and never used the MA-1. I presumed (falsely, due to lack of documentation at the time) that the MA-1 would simply adjust the 8 EQ bands that exist in the manual setup. How wrong I was! Will definitely have to invest in the MA-1 and give it a go. Thanks for the in-depth video!
You won’t regret using MA1! It’s very good!
@@EdThorne I bought it. Been using it for 3 days. Man, I'm so happy!
At first it sounded very similar to my manual correction (using a PreSonus PRM-1 mic), but it's night/day difference after having time to judge it in more detail.
It seems to do something with the phase response, too. Phantom centre sounds really solid and tight. Highs do have more clarity and little stray transients here and there show up much clearer. I had to turn down the bass as it accentuated it a LOT here, just as it did with yours. I prefer "flatter" for my own ears (personal preference).
Again, thanks so much for the vid. Didn't know I even needed the MA1, but now I'm going to reap the benefits!
Definitely the review I was looking for!
I hope it’s helpful.
Thank you Ed for the comprehensive video-really helpful! I have both the Sound ID and MA1 room correction software and mics, but I now only use SoundID with my headphones, as I found it a bit of a pain, switching between more than one set of monitors and remembering to switch calibrations. It doesn't work well in that instance; especially if you're using a monitor controller to do the switching
.
Glad it was helpful! Yeh, I forgot to even mention the system wide part of Sound iD is fiddly and you can’t use it if using analog outboard gear… Makes much more sense to have a fixed outboard processor doing the correction.
Great, comprehensive review Ed. Nice one. About 5 years ago I tried a Trinnov D-Mon and like you, really hated it at first, now I find it very difficult to work without. It recently went in for repair and I was so distracted for a month! It's so confidence inspiring, even in a well treated room. My NS10s sound incredible and ATCs sound unreal. Really interesting to have a look at the competition, though.
Thanks. Glad it was interesting. Trinnov rules though, eh?!
Thanks for this, used SW for years, just got the ARC and now Im considering Trinnov... Youve tipped me over the edge im going to demo it!
Haha. Don’t do that! Because you’ll Definitely want it!!!
This is a remarkable video. Reeks of honesty.
One thing to mention ADAM Audio monitors can store the SoundID calibration into the DSP of the speaker thus removing the need to have any plugin running, and to deal with the any software induced latency.
Ah, yes, I’d forgotten about this. Good shout.
The only competitor missing is Dirac Live, and I think between Trinnov, Neumann and Dirac, they're the best offerings based on their features.
Trinnov is at the highest premium followed by Neumann and Dirac. Genelec's offerings are great too. And I'd pick Arc over Sound ID.
Somehow I hadn’t heard of Dirac before people started commenting about it 🤣
I’m testing Dirac live since yesterday and I have to say it works pretty well. Listening to a lot of reference tracks and I’m testing it for the coming two weeks. I think I will probably get the MiniDSP with the Dirac license. The time alignment is pretty good and with the MiniDSP I can load my own REW filters too. Also I can use the second pair of outputs with different filters for my headphone amp which is great 👍🏼
Great video Ed!! I’m still running old skool sonarworks (heard soundid crashes a lot for Mac users 🤔) but this was great information! Thank you!
You’re welcome. Hope it was insightful.
Thanks so much for this great review, Ed! Concerning Trinnov, does the Nova have a hard bypass for when you are tracking?
I have been reliably informed that this is a software update on the horizon. Currently no but they know it needs implementing. Likely they’ll release both a hard bypass and a low-latency/reduced processing mode.
It has a bypass option, but it's not zero latency. However depending on your sensitivity to latency, it's not terrible and you can get away with it in some cases. I'm managing with the current ability for playing midi parts using Komplete and Maschine for example), but look forward to a lower latency option.
And the father of all this tech is introduced in 2005 by Genelec, it's almost 20 years now. With their SAM speaker lineup, you get something similar to Neumann's MA1...But because they have more experience in this tech. I believe they'll be more accurate than MA1... I'm in love with my 8351's. Great comparision!
Great video 👍🏼
I'm busy with room correction and finally went the d.i.y. way REW and a dedicated DSP.
ARC studio looked nice but I decided not to go that route. 1st of all because of the lack of a subwoofer output and 2nd because the hardware is dedicated to the software and needs to be registered which I absolutely don't like. By the way the 'normal' curve looks close to the Harman speaker target. Some people like to correct their speakers to a flat curve, some prefer the Harman speaker curve. For me personally a dedicated sub correction is a must for phase alignment, also because I can set the crossover point to my liking.
Another thing that I miss is the fact that the eq corrections are predicted corrections, how they actually end up needs a new measurement i.m.o. What I noticed with both IK-Multimedia and Sonarworks is that they boost correction dips in the frequency response. According to what I found out you get better results with only cutting and do as less as possible and preferable not any boosting.
If you want a simple solution with set and forget then Sonarworks and IK-Multimedia are nice but if you want a better correction and more knowledge about what's going on under the hood, check your decay times, excellent phase alignment then it's either Trinov or go d.i.y. with REW and a dedicated DSP imo 😁
@Studio22mix Time alignment of your sub makes all the difference and the dips you mentioned need to be addressed with acoustic panels and bass traps boosting only results in a shift of those problem frequencies 😉
@@Chaos-Dynamics Yeah I followed Eric Valentines journey in achieving the best possible results, he went totally all in with his acoustic treatment. That guy is a genius 👍🏼
@@Chaos-Dynamics Also speaker placement and sometimes even your studio desk size can be an issue.
@@Truth565 Each room is unique and you definitely have to start with speaker placement, then acoustic treatment and finally room correction. 👍🏼
i was waiting for that
It’s a long video, but there’s TONs of info. I hope it’s helpful.
@@EdThorne thanks to sharing that I appreciated .
Great review. Thank you! I just received the ARC to replace my Sound ID. Hey, here's a question... What if I do the ARC measurements using the Sonarworks microphone instead? Do you think it might measure the bass response better. The Arc mic looks really cheap and crappy. Thanks!
This is a great question. If you try it please let me know the results. As long as you have the mic calibration profile it could work. Apparently they’re both MEMs mics but the Sound iD mic is also listed as an Electrotet Condenser (which isn’t a MEMs as far as I understand - so I’m not sure who’s wrong - them or me🤣)
@@EdThorne Haha. Ok all good. I'll give it go and report back! Thanks.
Thank you Ed !
Very good overview
But I seriously wonder whether using an active kh750 in combination with two PSI A23s will result in a system as well phase aligned as if the Neumann KH750 were used with, say, a pair of Neumann KH 120 II DSPs.
Put another way, it begs the question: why did you deactivate the KH 750 in your configuration with the A23s? Didn’t it lack power in the bass/sub?
Thanks
The MA1 system calculates and corrects the phase alignment of all three speakers.
Thank you for that! For Trinnov are you sure that this 96kh limitation is not due to the Spdif selection?
Yes. I’m using analogue inputs from my X16 and 96k is the current highest sample rate available. I’m not sure why the UI has options for higher - maybe there’s an update coming 🤞
Ed,
I appreciate your video. I have Focal Solo6's. In your opinion which of the systems you have described I should get? I also am using RME UFX III which now has room EQ in TotalMIx but not sure if I should use this.
You’re welcome. I’d get ARC. Unless you also want a sub, then get the KH750 + MA1 👌
@@EdThorne Ed,
I appreciate your input and advice. I am glad you had all of these platforms to help me make a good choice.
Saw you had an MA1 test with the MUM’s. Been thinking of getting a pair. What were your thoughts on them?
@@clintyoung9902 theres a video about the MUMS, where he tests MUMS and other contenders
I‘m on the Neumann KH120 with KH750DSP since 2021 … for almost of 1,5 year Didn‘t use the MA-1 cause my room was shit without any acoustic Treatments during this Time But i learned my Neumann‘s … than i was upgrading the room with acoustic Treatments … and since 12/2023 i was using the MA-1 -> it was really a big thing of Impact 👍💪👍 … i love These beasts 🤩👍🤩 …
I’ve just purchased a pair of kh310s but my room acoustics are not great at all… I and am thinking about getting a sub for the extended low end and also DSP capability which will allow me to use the MA1 with my 310s to get a much better sound out of them.
Would you recommend this?
Absolutely! MA1 is great. But so is Arc. I’m using that for my Amphions
I suspect the trinnov headphone out might be delayed to be in sync with the delay that the trinnov has for processing correction. I have the older ST2 and it reports 16ms of delay from input to be output. When I put on phones while the mains are on I can hear it, same with loud phones when the mains are really low. I'm 100% guessing.
This is a very good point. Thanks for the suggestion.
I am currently using the Neumann KH120's and Eve Audio TS108 sub and am torn between either adding the IK ARC Studio to my monitors or change my Eve sub for the Neumann KH750 and use MA-1. What would you recommend?
So, ARC is a stereo system only. It can’t individually phase correct and time align the subwoofer to the tops. The MA 1 system can, so you’ll have a more cohesive low end with the KH750 sub. Also, I think the MA1 gets a better EQ curve in general.
@@EdThorneThanks 👍🏻
your crossover point in Nova was 1 short of being NICE!
What do you suggest? My settings are the result of a lot of trial and error.
@@EdThorne It was a #69 joke... I'm childish. Great review.
Aaahahaha. Sorry, that went over head🤣🤘
😁😇 - thankyou very informative.
Can the Trinnov Nova do active crossovers for a DIY 3 way speaker?
Interesting question. It’s not designed for that at all but in theory it might be possible. You could feed the 3 stereo pairs of Trinnov outputs to each individual speaker amplifier, which would require an additional two stereo licenses costing £900/each=£1800! Then you could set up the cross over frequency and slopes in the software but I’d speak to a speaker specialist about this. The Present Day Production guys are very knowledgable and responsive.
I'd love a Trinov, but I definitely can't afford it or the Neuman system. Which of the more affordable ones would you recommend?
ARC Studio👌
@@EdThorneAh, I was just able to ginish the video, and got to your recommendations. Thanks for responding as well👍
Really well done video as always. ARC seems to be a good value for your cheddar overall. Trinnov is a hard NO because of the price. I can slap on a pair of my Neumann headphones and take my room out of the equation and Bob's your uncle. For RME users like myself, they have room correction EQ built in TotalMix so you can run REW for free, get your measurements and and make your corrections in TotalMix and it is Dolby Atmos capable if that is your style. An RME interface comes in well below the Trinnov and the savings could be used towards other gear. Just my 3 cents.
Thanks. Good info about Total Mix!🔥
The question is whether RME uses FIR and IIR filters for the correction or is it just a dynamic equalizer? Also does it have delay compensation? Maybe I should take a look at the specs.
(looking at the specs at RME I couldn’t find anything about room correction only that there is a possibility of delay compensation on all outputs and the eq which can be applied to the outputs, which is great because many interfaces can only do this on the inputs so it could be used for correction depending on the filter types)
I have focal twin 6be what system would you recommend ?
ARC unless you need a subwoofer and have the budget for the MA1 system including the KH750 sub.
I had SoundID on my setup with a 2019 Intel MBP, and though it did what it should do I grew concerned with how it interacts with my OS. Latency and constantly switching on or off in order to play and track was a challenge, but more than anything I just found that it messed with my computer’s audio management (via Focusrite interface). Through this journey I started with more budget friendly monitors and cheaper headphones and at that time it was a phenomenal upgrade. When I purchased Neumann monitors and headphones I did hear an improvement but the interaction with my system became more of a hinderance than an acceptable improvement. When I upgraded to Clarett and a new M2 MBP I chose NOT to install SoundID. Does anyone know if this system is markedly improved when using Apple Silicon machines? I’d consider installing it, but until I get someone to confirm it works better than on Intel Apple machines I’ll have to pass.
Can we use the eumann MA1 on any speakers system ? or its only for their speakers ?
Any speakers.
@@EdThorne so if you have your own speaker - Is ARC studio a better option than MA1 ?
It’s the £1200 cheaper option but no subwoofer with Arc of course. Hard to say which one is better. They do slightly different things but both very well.
@@EdThorne Thanks for your response !!! I wonder - did you try Dirac Live too ? and if so - how does it compare to the new Arc studio 4.
ANY idea about GLM vs TRINNOV NOVA?
What’s GLM?
@@EdThorne Genelec’s room correction system
Ah, the Genelec correction is the SAM system. I don’t have Genelec’s and this video was long enough as it is. I already owned the KH750 sub.
Please compare Trinnov with Dirac 💛💙
Geez, your room is wild in the low end and lower midrange 😅+10 dB at 40Hz and -10db at 100Hz. That seems like way too much to correct with EQ? I would prioritize room acoustics way over a Trinnov system at that point, by a lot. Sonarworks only corrects in 3-4dB at max in my room which has basic treatment.
Yeh, it’s pretty bad. There’s very little I can do with the room (for various reasons including it not being my property), but I am looking to address the 60Hz bump with acoustic treatment. I’m diving down a translation rabbit hole atm and this is part of the problem.
The Trinnov is defiantly the sound business choice.
Anything that ups you mixing and translation game is a no brainer for a business.
But, You'd need a substantial start up to include it.
I'm have it on the list and will remove quite a lot to include it.
You'll mix better with plugins hearing properly than not having that and having a few analogue units to make a small hybrid setup.
The Oria is the best choice for Atmos where you can upgrade when your Atmos business earning enough with the D-mon Trinnov for Atmos as it has all the AES you need... and I would chose Oria instead of a Dante interface as the Oria just works with anything Atmos without a headache.
You suddenly close your Atmos mixing session and play a Atmos movie, it just works.
A important thing I would think for Atmos as you can play a Atmos song through the interface the same way you would playing music right off you computer.
It mean you can work and check seamlessly.
Maybe a upgraded model can have AES inputs, maybe more analogue inputs too, become a interface and monitor controller for everything... and maybe even make it so much more inclusive and have ARC HDMI outputs (and ins maybe) and so you can even have that going to a Atmos soundbar setup so you can see how mixes translate to that format of Atmos speaker.
That will be the most common proper home Atmos setup.
You'd clearly will want to test it on the single speaker Bluetooth offerings with Atmos also... but the most common proper home Atmos setups will be soundbars.
Having digital AES outs for that many speakers is just a incredible move as so many speakers have AES inputs now.
Just wish they had AES inputs to make that interface a complete studio option.
The ARC is the best option for budget stereo setups.
I will get this along side the Trinnov Nova for cheaper speakers... plan to do UA-cam also, so handy for speaker reviews also if cheaper... I'm very brutally honest so probably will not get asked much for that lol.
Love your channel, always a great perspective to learn from when someone shows their learning curve as they progress... best way to avoid mistakes that will be mostly unavoidable... will be my angle also.
Take care
Please don’t buy cheaper speakers so that you can get the Nova… Get expensive speakers first, and the Nova later when you’re making a healthy profit. The Nova can only do so much when your speakers are limited by their driver quality. You will be much better off getting a decent pair of speakers than you would a cheap pair of speakers + the Nova.
Exactly this!!!
Good to see Trinnov here, but miss the king of room corrections aka Dirac.
I’ve never heard of this. What am I missing?
@@EdThorne LOL I can't believe it. Time domain fix which eliminates nulls and after that all the rest. Check and try for yourself. It can work as a software or through MiniDSP devices.
I use the ST2 Pro. Too bad they stopped making it.
The Nova is the ST2 replacement with slightly better conversion (apparently) and no fan noise.
You should have included Dirac as well. It is much better than Sonarworks.
I’ve never heard of it…
@@EdThorne Corrects both phase and amplitude. To get the best impulse response.
By the way, does anyone know that if you sell your IK-Multimedia hardware and the new owner wants to use it they have to pay for a license transfer 😂😂😂
Really?!
@@EdThorne yeah I heard many people complaining about it. A friend of mine has a guitar interface which his brother wanted to use to try it out, he couldn’t use it because the license. Basically it’s software that has hardware attached to it so the hardware only works with the license. Many people hate IK-Multimedia because of this. I also heard people say that they bought software which had sample libraries go with it, if you want to install those a couple of months later after registering they also let you pay a download fee. These guys are not very customer friendly so to speak.
I had sonarworks, ARC 3, currently I have Genelc with GLM, switching from SoundID to Genelec GLM is like driving a Fiat at night without lights and then changing to a Mercedes... .ARC is a little better, but still doesn't fix the phase problems.SoundID is very, very overrated,
You forget accourate..it can do all the things that trinnov does
What can?
@@EdThorne phase correction , group delays ...
@@EdThorneI think he meant ARC can. The the autocorrect probably misunderstood the intention.
@@EdThorne he means Acourate by AudioVero. It's a tad more complicated to get working, but it can do everything Trinnov does for less than a tenth of the price. It really is a stellar piece of software! The dev is also really helpful if you (like me) need a helping hand the first time you set everything up
Never liked Sonarworks. Sounded unnatural and thin. Bought it, never actually used it. So then I decided to go with the MA-1, which actually works.
ID can’t be used while tracking! That’s to me a downgrade