Why Andrew Scheps Doesn't Use Sonarworks
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2022
- Why Andrew Scheps Doesn't Use Sonarworks, very interesting chat with Andrew Scheps! FULL PODCAST HERE: • Having Another GAS wit...
I had another GAS with Andrew Scheps, one of the most respected and well-reputed mix engineers in the music industry
Andrew has worked with a number of incredibly successful artists on chart-topping albums such as By the Way by Red Hot Chili Peppers, 21 by Adele and Beyoncé by Beyoncé.
These days Andrew resides in the UK, where he enjoys a peaceful life in the English countryside.
Watch our previous chat here: • Having a GAS with...An...
Having a GAS™ is the podcast that talks to the great and the good of the creative industries, and in particular finds out what makes great music for film, for TV, for advertising; for dancing to, for cooking to, f*cking to, and more...
GAS™ Music is a music production agency in Manchester, UK. We compose and produce original music, create awe inspiring sound design and have a fully integrated audio post-production studio. We also have a great record collection, and welcome any additions, recommendations or criticisms.
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According to Wikipedia...
Andrew Scheps is an American mix engineer, recording engineer, record producer, and record label owner, based in Los Angeles and the United Kingdom. He received Grammy Awards for Best Rock Album for his work on Red Hot Chili Peppers' Stadium Arcadium, Album of the Year for Adele's 21, and Best Reggae Album for Ziggy Marley's Fly Rasta.
A Long Island native who got his start playing jazz trumpet, Andrew Scheps has mixed records for artists such as the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Adele, Metallica, Jay-Z and many others. After graduating from the Recording Engineering Program at the University of Miami, he spent some time working for New England Digital as a field service technician for the Synclavier, one of the first digital synthesizers / samplers / workstations, then on the road with Stevie Wonder (as a keyboard tech) and Michael Jackson (mixing live sound), before settling in LA.
Having got into mixing a few years before the analog-to-digital revolution, Andrew worked with a collection of vintage gear at his Punkerpad West studio in Van Nuys, California, including a Neve Electronics BCM-10 with ten 1073s that were used for reference during the Waves Audio Scheps 73 plugin modeling process.
Scheps is known for his balanced, modern sounding and often loud mixes. In July 2015, while being interviewed on Pensado's Place, he declared to work completely "ITB" (in the box), which stands for working completely inside a computer, without the use of external gear. His 100% transition to ITB mixing occurred halfway through mixing the Hozier record in the summer of 2014. "Going back into the box wasn't a sonic decision, but I actually rediscovered that I really like it. It's great to be able to work on three or four songs at the same time. I have not gone back to working on the desk since then. While I miss some of the visceral hands-on aspects of the console, there is a lot of creative freedom working this way. It might seem like a drastic change, but it is only the tools that have changed: remarkably my philosophy and sound have stayed the same".
He is also the owner and president of Tonequake Records and Punkerpad UK (formerly Punker Pad West).
Grammy Awards:
Ziggy Marley - Fly Rasta (Best Reggae Album)
Adele - 21 (Album of the Year)
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Stadium Arcadium (Best Rock Album)
#AndrewScheps #MusicProduction #Podcast
I had another GAS with Andrew Scheps, one of the most respected and well-reputed mix engineers in the music industry
*FULL PODCAST HERE: **ua-cam.com/video/iwk9zKRfo7k/v-deo.html*
I’ve always appreciated Andrew’s down to earth attitude about all this stuff. “I just make it sound good” is basically his whole attitude.
What really matters is - does your mixes translate well. And there are many ways how you can achieve that. As Andrew Scheps noted, for many people Sonarworks products make a huge difference and that's what's important - find what works for you and make great music that sounds good on any device and makes the emotional impact to the end listener. At the end of the day that's what's important to any creator
This is exactly what I was told more than 20 years ago. And I started to work accordingly. Nothing fancy in my studio. Ha, I’ve even used Behringer headphones for a long time. All that matters is what Andrew says: just get to know how your room sounds, how your monitors sound and how your headphones sound. Best way to do that is to listen to some of your favourite music.
Once you’re done mixing your stuff, take the result into your car, to your living room, listen to the mixes through earphones plugged into your phone and judge what you’ve done. Take a frequent rest. Leave them for a couple of days and then listen again. For me this works… and I am so pleased to hear a pro doing it likewise. So thank you for this!
Perspective: Andrew never mixes in a tiny box room on headphones so take this with a pinch of salt. Sonarworks is great for low budget rooms and cheap headphones
Yeah he has said he likes to mix on a MacBook using only the built in speakers
Andrew has said he mostly mixes on headphones, then checks the final product on speakers.
Great advice! Learning your speakers and your room is probably the best thing for you.
Sonar works for me so far, I treated my room speakers sound good, but must say sonar gave me that last tightening. Mixes translates good
I’ve gotten two videos today from two different producers/engineers about how being familiar with your speakers/listening environment is the most important thing. It’s really validating because 1) I’ve believed this for a long time, and 2) I mix on a pair of $10 headphones and in my car. The record I made in GarageBand on my phone has gotten me lots of compliments and also lots of work from people who want their records to sound like mine. So it’s not crazy, you really can get a good sound from cheap equipment and untreated rooms, you just gotta know what is _should_ sound like.
One thing i've always known is that music is so intuitive. That's something that I really feel with this guy
we talking about sound waves not music. sound is not intuitive, if you study it you will know
I have been producing since the mid 80s now and Andrew just nailed it LOOOL I treat my rooms the same way as he does... it works perfect. In fact some of the albums I mixed for some of the bands I had on my label were mixed in my attic with no professional treatment at all and we got some cool reviews for that record. Know your monitor systems, know your rooms. For me it has been more than sufficient. Thanks much for this cool video.
I started monitoring mixes and mixing using my phone speakers a few months ago. That’s been trip. I resisted for years, but considering that’s how people are going to listen to my music, I had to give in and I’m glad I did. :)
It's REALLY essential where you place the cat tree
100%
yeah but his room is probably treated correctly with the right size monitors and years of practice ... I think sonarworks is for really challenging new spaces...
I mixed on PMCs (in a very small room) and frankly, Sonarworks really helped, but the software was always a huge P.I.T.A, plus the added phase issues, etc. Now I work on M&Ks and they sound perfect without the correction. Took about 1 day to get used to the difference, then off to the races. Before all of that, my NS10S always translated perfectly, also w no correction. Just my little anecdote.
Love his interviews
Loved arm gesticulation for.. " Moving quickly.." 😂
I have to say, sonar works has been a game changer for me
god bless this man. when i first heard of Andrew Schepp's and the vibe surrounding him years ago i figured he was the gnome of all rules, conventions, practices, do's and don'ts yet it turns out that nearly the opposite is true. such a pleasure to listen to....
Going to need the scratch post recall sheet
Andrew thinks the same way I do about mixing rooms. Awesome!
Which Tannoys is Andrew using? I've used the Tannoy 8s for years, excellent monitors!
I am 1 year into mixing now, I can tell by now that speakers/headphones, the DAW and the USB interface are the most important things. Most DAWs have all the basic plugins, maybe you won't get the best bass drum sound, the best reverb, the best whatsoever with those plugins, so either you spend more money for that or you try to recreate them in the DAW with its basic plugiins.
I started work age sixteen in an industrial environment so noisy that I couldn't understand a single word said to me. Within a week my brain had tuned out the noise and I could understand everyone as normal. I left after a year but went back in to say hello a year after that and once again I couldn't understand a thing said to me. It is very easy after that experience to understand by how much my hearing is capable of retuning a listening environment. The greatest recording ever made, done at vast expense will only ever be heard the way it was intended in the recording studio it was recorded in, someone else with a million quid spent on hifi gear is guaranteed to be listening to something else.
When ever I listen to Andrew I realize I’m doing the right thing. His message is know what you have. People hear my mixes and think they were done in professional studios. Little do they know. I mix on Harmon Kardon Soundsticks in an untreated room.
A big part of it is that flat response is not actually the correct response because of acoustical reasons due to the speakers, polar pattern and phasing, and all of these things that cannot be fully corrected electronically or a measurement microphone can pick up. However, I think proper calibration can be really good, especially for the bass.
I bought a new pair of Sony MDR-7506 phones which came with a free trial of Sonarworks, because I used them for 25 years in live FOH mixing and the brightness helped cut through the program. My friends hate them, but I will try using them as vocal performance recording phones with SonarWorks and will report back. (I'd like a 60-band EQ, but if instead they sound weirdly convoluted it's g'bye S-Works.) Thanks!
You know, I have always had this opinion and just kept it to myself cause I didn't think it would be well received. But NOW I can say "You gonna call Andrew Scheps a bad engineer?" No one will question it now hahaha
I have been wondering whether Andrew Scheps ever tried the software called CanOpener Studio by Goodhertz for mixing entirely using headphones purposes.
Seems to distract me (sometimes), but it is a nice limiter to use to keep casual listening down. . .So the "Sensitivity" stays my hearing. . .And its a great interface to place in between things
It sounds very digital and flattened...
Yeah, I thought that was the point, flattening, that is.
I wholeheartedly disagree. with SW I focus on the right things instead of battling the "cabinet" imprint of the speakers and inconsistent low end. I don't know why you would work otherwise if theres an option to correct the uneven sounding low end and spikey high end which leads to wrong eq moves
Sonarworks sounds very phasey and unnatural
Great video. Andrew does mention speakers called "MX"? That if they don't sound good on them, they won't sound good anywhere? Who makes the MXs?
He's saying 'my iMac's speakers' I think
Sound ID works wonders for me.
The secret is having a large carpeted cat tower with big fluffy cats around.
I'm with Andrew. Get used to what you have.
In order to not hear the room, you need to trap the low end and first reflections. So he does want the room to sound good - by not hearing it too much whilst not being too dead..
In the end ,just push the faders up.All good)
Absolute Legend.
If you're mixing in a really bad room to where you have to throw a graphic eq on it and mess your mix up just for it to be "flat" then you should probably just try and find a different room or use headphones lol or mix hella quiet
Sonarworks has made my mixes absolutely perfect in my case, they’ve translated well on all devices I’ve tested without even mastering. I can see how in Andrew’s case (and many other 30+ year engineering veterans) it would only throw off their process and routine.
But if you’re still at an intermediate level, or even expert, you can never truly translate a mix perfectly unless you have amazing skills + treatment + gear + experience to know exactly how your equipment reacts to different frequencies. Reference 4 just seems to even the playing field (in my opinion).
Andrew Scheps is a legend.
What kind of Headphones ar you use for Mixing Mr. Scheps..give me a name of the product,,please....
He uses the Sony's MDR7506. They are cheap and a little bit bright, but they work for him.
His point is that you don't need what he has. You need to know what you have.
I A/B on my phone speaker and laptop speaker. If a mix translates well there, it’ll translate well anywhere.
And yet, Sonarworks + PSI monitors + some bass traps have made me get mixes to translate right on those devices much faster.
Yes, if you learn & keep in mind all the idiosyncrasies of your listening environment you can get by. But I don’t want to have to think about it. Everything published to this channel before I abandoned this project was done in open-backed headphones next to a noisy industrial train yard and I ain’t wanna deal with environmental problems ever again.
The only downside of software like Sonarworks is the initial cost & time spent on calibration, which are both one-time ouches, and the slight annoyance of remembering to disable it on export, something you can get in the habit of doing that could feasibly be solved by DAWs allowing you to flag plugins to not be used for export.
@@made.online2149Cubase control room supports this functionality
I think the cat tower is the key
Great video. Within the first 30 seconds or so, I thought dude was a lunatic, but by the end, he conveyed the concept of creating or having a reliable point of reference. If you have a dependable system/room to start with, it's easy to figure out how it translates across other systems/rooms.
I love seeing the cat tower/hangout right next to the console. Love music. Love cats. ❤❤❤❤❤
At the risk of criticizing someone who has done way more records that more people like than I ever will, and who I consider as close to an idol as I have, I disagree wholeheartedly about the room. Speakers do all sound different, and you can't help but acclimate to some degree on pretty much any pair of speakers. But rooms are totally different.
You can listen to the same material on two different sets of speakers and immediately know what each pair is doing to the sound. Visuals are huge cues- a pair of NS10s sounding boxy is expected when you compare them to a set of TAD/ Augspeger mains mounted in a soffit. But you can't compare rooms in a similar way. And except for very large vs very small, or treated walls/ ceilings vs untreated, it can be impossible to even guess just by looking at it what the room is doing . If you build a control room with sufficient volume (within reason), treat the first reflection points and deaden it sufficiently above about 300 Hz it might sound objectively good without you having any idea whatsoever about what it is doing to the sound. There could easily be (and very likely are) 20-30 db volume swings in lower frequencies at the mix position. You very likely wouldn't notice when you started mixing. You might not notice them until you got somewhere else. Peaks and nulls at different places in the room can give radically different impressions to people seated in different areas (hint: It's not a bad idea to make sure the bassist is at the very back of the room), leaving each with a totally different idea of what the mix actually sounds like. A control room should be "the control". Everything else is a variable. If you have an "out of control" room you *might* be able to learn it, but it can be incredibly counterintuitive. When you're constantly having to suck all the 60Hz out of a mix because you know it is going to sound woofy in the car is a shitty way to work. You should not have to mix things to sound "wrong" because you're hoping they sound "right" elsewhere. Getting a good reference at the mix position allows you to hear the differences between speakers and EQs. Otherwise you can't know what you're listening to. My guess is he has a pretty good room with good ratios to begin with or he wouldn't be able to work around the limitations of the monitors.
All that said, I don't think Sonarworks is the answer. Huge swings cause by boundary reflections can create the huge peaks and nulls mentioned above, and EQing one spot can couse bigger problems elsewhere. If you add 20dB of 80Hz to try to fill the null at the mix position only dumps more of the frequency that's canceling itself already. For every null at one spot in the room there will be a corresponding peak, and that spot where there is constructive interference now has a +40dB peak! All that LF energy causes the room to resonate even more and the ringing can make everything else sound muddy and eat up all your amp's headroom just by trying to fix that single problem.
Measure your room. There is no shortage of good, free information online to help you learn how. RoomEQ Wizard is free and can tell you a lot about the the stuff you see or intuit. Build absorbers targeted at the problem modes of the room. Once the room is truly a contol for the experiment, start experimenting. At least then you can have a baseline to judge everything else by.
Totally agree with you regarding the room, speakers do all sound different and will need to get used to in order to get the best mix out of them.
However, Sonarworks does measure from 37 different spots so it doesn't really cause more nulls and peaks then pre Sonarworks in my experience, however the room always should be treated first and foremost, Sonarworks or similar should be used after and i only use the 6db cut/boost calibration and not 12db as it can sound a bit too heavily eq'd to my ears.
@@supernovaf1 Has anyone tried to measure the room again after sonarworks? Why should we believe in the software(programmers) that it is good?
@@joewolf38 Interesting POV! I never seen a video on YT where someone measure their system after SW correction! That would be interesting for sure! I talked with many audio engineers who make acoustic adaptation and they tune almost everything by ear. Then they allow to check sound with software and measurements and so on to figure out what should need to be improved and then again tune by ear. I tried to make measurements with pink noise and measurement mic but when I use eq to correct the sound of my room almost always was something wrong. Even though my freq response chart became flatter the sound from speakers became strange and full of artifacts! When I start to use reference tracks and use my ears I could finally correct somewhat my speakers with that approach. And guess what? Freq response chart after measurement was not flat at all! Little bit better than before but not "straight flat" as Sonarworks software make your speakers! And there's something strange when you listen monitors with applied eq. They sounds different. But not because you boost or cut some frequencies but the quality and response changed too. And most of the time it sounds worse than without any eq correction or whatever.
@@joewolf38 Yes. I've done REW frequency sweep before & afters with Sonarworks. The result with Sonarworks on is mostly the same peaks & valleys as before, but attenuated significantly.
You should believe the software(programmers) because physics is physics and engineering can overcome physics problems. Btw, there are many software(programmers) in the world who are also creative(musicians); the two fields aren't as exclusive as some would like to believe.
thanks&goodness
I've got PMC's and Sonarworks, but it's rarely switched on... I just know them so well, it's like they're pretending somehow.
Well who knew it all comes down to talent and experience, and not gear?
My bf forced me to watch this, just wanted to say that Andrew has an exceptionally beautiful voice
Hahaha, he sure does
TF 😂
You better have taken notes
Is the cat climber primarily for absorption or diffusion?
Absorbtion.
It counters the cats that diffuse your stuff onto the floor.
Depends on the size of the cat.
Relaxing hahaha
As a professional you know what he's talking about, but it doesn't do much favors to new people into mixing, to have them believe treatment is less important than learning the room. And you don't need to get overly technical on the topic, this is true, but its just the truth that you can NOT hear what you are doing when there is a great deal of reflection in the low end, because the actual signal WILL be drowned out by reflections :) Scheps knows this, everyone knows this. From quick clips like this, it appears that you simply need to listen enough in an environment to learn it and then make the right judgements. Not the case.
i dont think he is talking about rooms where you have 12db dips! or similar spikes (very common in small rooms). That is not "hearing the speakers" , that is a nightmare
Interesting perspective. To me, room correction is not about making your room sound great, it’s about trying to make your room more neutral; taking as much of the room out of the equation as you can.
Also, sonarworks is definitely not the answer, but something like trinnov hardware can get you closer to that goal.
@@justinbraun8003 Charles Sprinkle did a short demo of passing a mic repeatedly in a wide front to back loop over a given point in the listening area to (iirc) pink noise to get a consistent FR average, then equalizing any major eigenmodes using REW.
I've had really good results with Dirac, but REW will give good results for free (donations are nice) if you can commit to a bit of a learning curve.
'great rooms' for tracking or performance or listening are often terrible for engineering. Many a church was designed to have the holiest, most pleasing reverberance possible & yet mixing a record in there would lead to something that sounds terrible anywhere else.
And now he is promoting the new Arc Studio on their advertising..😂
It doesn't make the room sound great. It stops the speakers sounding crap.
8" eliptical
If someone turns on a pair of Tannoys somewhere where I am, and I demand to have them turned off and switched to NS-10s, shoot me
californication nevermind and songs for the deaf the 3 kick ass records and one was mono by mr s
Huh?
Sonorwoks and DSP sounds really processy.
What do you mean processy? How?
it takes less than 30 minutes to install and setup speakers. Under 5 for headphones.
The room is in your head. It helped if you mixed some major hit records to know what’s needed. To adjust the ears is more important than the room I guess 😅. Probably people think that because Andrew is mixing it, it will become a hit. But that’s not his job.
Rooms will sound different,m. Speakers will sound different. However, how consistent is the sweet spot between your speakers? Comb filtering problems are the biggest issue. If you move a foot forwards or a foot back and the low frequency content changes... you have a major issue in that room. You can't lock your head into a vice a la Clockwork Orange. If the low end is always changing, you won't be able to make proper decisions.
A discussion on comb filtering and why it happens isn't a single comment post. Treating your room can be expensive. There is also the issue of landlords and adjacent neighbors for many people. But you should definitely research the issue. Cheers.
Sonarworks specifically takes averages of many impulses around your listening location so that its correction is as close to evenly good (or bad) within a circle around you as possible.
I never understand why rock bands at this level don't participate more in the mixing process. With so much of mixing having been demystified through channels like youtube, this isn't as dark of an art as it used to be. I would 100% be in the mix because this is your end result!
@Andy Wallace indeed.
Their ears are almost always in rough shape. They will dictate changes that will sound questionable to any normal person.
...And Justice for All is a great example of this.
I hate sonarworks
Sonarworks is snake oil! Mucking around with your settings based on buying their 'special' mic and their overpriced software. If you want room simulation there are better products. As for correcting your room, fix the actual room and don't waste money on Sonarworks junk!
better products like what? Have you actually used sonarworks before?