Fun Fact About This Video: My views on the subject now are different than when I made the video on "What If Eren Did Not Kiss Historia's Hand". A lot of it was caused by the comments from the video. For example, I was reminded that Hizuru had the first aeroplane ready after Eren attacked the festival which could have been used for diplomacy.
When King Francis I of France was captured at the Battle of Pavia, his mother, the Duchess of Savoy, wrote a letter to Sultan Suleiman of the Ottoman Empire for aid to rescue her son and to distract the Habsburg's domains. And that is what laid the foundation to the Franco-Ottoman alliance in the first place. Originally, the alliance was meant to be temporary. But due to that the Italian Wars and the Habsburg-Ottoman Wars remained inconclusive and nothing but temporary respites were brought for all involved parties because King Charles I of Spain needed to deal with a league of Protestant leaders within the Holy Roman Empire, the alliance between France and the Ottoman Empire persisted longer than intended. And there was even a political debate about such an alliance at the time with some condemning it while others defending it. So the same can be applied to Paradis Island and the nations that made up the Mid-East Eyalets as well as long as Marley remained a threat to both sides.
This is really beyond the scope of the story but i find it very hard to believe the Eldeans wouldn't seek to expand beyond the island after decisively winning a world war. Which makes the epilogue symbolizing the destruction of the Eldeans seem extremely contrived as by that point the Eldeans would realistically make up a large percent of the population in all territories.
Agreed. Knowing the Yeagerist, they'd immediately push for control over the mainland. They wouldn't just sit around for the world to rebuild and strike back.
You’re making a ton of assumptions, one namely being that Paradis is destroyed by some outsider non eldian group. We know in the epilogue that paradis became war mongers. They likely did push out, and the world was likely made up of different eldian states as well as a handful of surviving nations from the rumbling. There’s a decent chance Paradis wasn’t destroyed by powerful outsiders, but rather by emerging eldian colonial states. Wars between former colonies and their home states is common in our world. Secondly, hundreds of years is a lot of time for geopolitical balances to change. Countries could have survived the eldian expansion by becoming vassal states , and eventually usurping and destroying them as shown in the epilogue. That is literally what Marley did to the original Eldia.
@@RiqMoran nope, just predictions with what information we have. Your assumptions don’t make sense though, and you assume the ending is contrived because of it. Why is it so hard to believe that hundreds or thousands of years in the future paradis is destroyed? All powerful states fall one day. It’s less that the ending is contrived and more that it’s a logical likelihood that paradis would be destroyed, which also lines up perfectly with the worldview of the series. It’s also brought up several times in season 4 that paradis and eldians will fight amongst themselves if the rest of the world is gone. Seems pretty logical that it eventually happens after the rumbling
4 YEARS of uncertainty, fear and hate building because of the results of the end of season 3 make war inevitable, if not very VERY possible. Marley was in an awful state at the end of it...and they were forced to go to war and learn titans are becoming obsolete.
Most people don't use their brains with this ending. No where it's implied that ONLY paradise gets destroyed. Paradise island was a technological behemoth by the end and they definitely had weapons far more powerful than what we have today. By that logic we know if 2 nuclear power countries went to war, the world will come to an end. Which means that not only paradis got destroyed but the rest of the world did too. We see the missiles being launched from paradise island.
Exactly, THANK YOU; also, no-one said either that it was _actually_ TOTAL ANNIHILATION; like, isn't it also likely that Shiganshina was just attacked during some war whose scope we know NOTHING about ? The point of the story is to NOT assume these kinds of things, after all; in the end, I'm pretty sure that the point of that scene was just to show that "Man will always find a reason for War"
People also think that paradise didn't solve anything after the rumbling even tho the technology during the ending implies at least a few generations of global or national peace meaning our main characters did succeed in their advocation for peace
It's also bigger than that, a good author encourages the audience to use their brains. Also, there is more evidence to imply that only Paradis was destroyed than the opposite. As we only see Paradis get bombed.
Politics is complicated. But yeah, things would have to be done in the long term. While wrong in condemning their own people to die, there is something in the non-violent approach of the king’s vow. Maybe Attack of Titan could’ve become a generational story, one in defiance of hate from the outside world, to overcome the king’s vow, and to outlast Marley’s dominance on the world stage. It makes me wonder what a post Marley dominant world would be like in this scenario - Titan shifters being repossessed by different nations, the borders of Paradis being open to Eldians from different countries maybe. I like to think that, if Attack on Titan was a more hopeful story, it would have sought true peace, regardless of the odds. While not everyone would want to make peace with them, I think a satisfying ending would be to leave hope for a better world. (That said, a part 2 to this would be rad.)
Would you still destroy a small island with a small population that hasn’t done shit in a century and doesn’t plan to just on rep alone ? To me it seems like the rep thing is just current discourse at the time. It could be swayed with efforts from Paradis to shift the grudge on the old eldian aristocracy and marley
Id say no. Imo the only way they could even have a chance of diplomacy is a pack with the tybur family. Let's not forget that the main reason Marley pulled an attack on paradis was not because of hatred but resources and the founding titan because of rival nations. They depended on eldians and the titan powers for so long, and other nations' technology are making them obsolete. Soon, the eldians would become obsolete and be persecuted and extinguished. Paradis would be bombed, and erens existence as a threat to the world makes it worse. There is no real way for pardis and eldians to have peace.
If eren did the 100% eren will buried the cycle of hatred forever I don't care about the civil war if it happen it normal cycle of violence never stop but the cycle of hatred can be stop
@@akiraraiku they were used as meat literal meat shields in war. The hatred for eldians runs so deep that it wouldn't be outlandish for Marley to genocide them rather than spend resources keeping them fed and housed. Hitler had less of a reason to genocide the jews and he still did it. It's either they get killed or they get enslaved.
I think the declaration of war festival was a perfect opportunity for armin to call for peace and explain how paradis is not a threat to the whole world. Publishers and journalists, politicians and world leaders were all gathered there and armin could threaten to kill them all with the colossal titan if they didn't hear him out. The entire world would hear paradis plea for diplomatic peace. This was probably the best opportunity paradis had and they blew it
You say that. But armin is LITERALLY threatening to kill them if they don't listen to him. Even IF they call off plan to invade paradis now. What stopping them from waiting a little bit and invade anyway. That plan would have been a even WORSER version of the 50 year plan.
The show pretty much answered this in the 138 cabin scene, where eren does not attack in Liberio. Therefore not inciting any more additional fear that was not already present to the world. This would have presumably given hange and armin time to try to look for peace and talk it out like they hoped. But we are told events lead to the destruction of Paradis, with eren saying the only way to survive was to run. So the declaration of war is still made, Paradis dies, and presumably with the scapegoat island eldians gone the world turns there disdain to all remaining eldians that they already hated and eventually eliminates them too. So no diplomacy was not possible.
I'm personally not certain if Paradise using the rumbling to stop a Marleyian invasion is enough to permanently scar their global reputation. All they did is halt an invading force, making no civilian casualties. And it would also permanently end the Marleyian empire (they will never be able to recover from losing their invading force), giving all other nations a chance at retribution. Paradise showing its power would also give them an opportunity to communicate with diplomats from other nations. They now have to be taken seriously. But worry not we don't want to kill you. And you know all that ice burst stone you guys have been getting from Hizuru? You can also buy it from us for cheaper. Lastly, there is also another unique service Paradise can offer the word. Paradise can relief other nations of their Subject population. Genociding your local Subjects is costly and dangerous. Why not send them to Paradise instead? Paradise could do with a larger population of skilled workers who can help industrialize it. And the other nations could do with fewer biothreats living in their borders. But even when I'm this optimistic I'm not naïve. The biggest problem for Paradise would be their long term position in the world. Even if things lighten up and animosity dies down there is the simple fact that Subjects of Ymir are inherently dangerous. At any moment you friendly Subject of Ymir neighbor could erupt into a mindless flesh eating abomination. Your adorable subject child you had with your subject wife could turn into a titan while you're holding them in your arms. What does this mean for Eldians in the long run? Do all of them have to remain isolated on Paradise forever because they're too dangerous to let into foreign countries? Could a possible cure for titanism be created? These are questions I don't think any of us could answer.
Regarding your point on the Iceburst stones. Why wouldn't the world not use the technology to create a weapon to obliterate Paradis? From there perspective, they're one rogue Eldian away from getting flattened.
@@thenenhunter2600 Multiple reasons: 1: Paradise has first access to ice-burst stone and will be industrializing. Any weapons that could be made with Iceburst stone are weapons the Islanders could also make. They already know what planes look like, and they also already have experience with using Ice Burst stone with flight. So it stands to reason that they could engineer their own planes. 2: Let's be real, until they develop nuclear weapons there is no weapon they could make that could defeat the rumbling. Nukes aren't obvious developments world leaders know will be created, and it won't be till someone actually detonates one that everyone realizes this could be used to defeat the rumbling, and then it would require a couple of decades to create enough of them. And at that point, Paradise might have developed their own nuclear technology, creating another stalemate situation (in all fairness, I doubt Paradise would be able ot create nukes in time given the specialized knowledge and industry required for it. And we also don't know if Paradise has any uranium deposits.) 3: All this stalling, combined with Paradise's constant attempts to create good will, will reduce animosity. Assuming the world becomes more liberal as time goes on (seems likely since there already were Eldian rights organizations) genocide of the Eldians will also become less popular as time goes on. In my view the most realistic scenario is one where Paradise can stall long enough and make enough good will between them and the outside that invading them is no longer popular among the general populace. Then Paradise will most likely spend the rest of its existence as a sort of prison colony where Eldians are kept. They're not allowed to leave unless it's under strict supervision, and non-subjects aren't allowed to enter unless it's under strict supervision. This will go forever, or until a cure to titanism is discovered. I think curing titanism is actually possible since that is what happens at the end of the story. Maybe there is some way of doing it while circumventing Ymir and the worm.
@@thenenhunter2600if with the advent of technology you shove the titan power under the carpet. Stop using the shifters and there are no spinal fluid to turn people into titan. It would fade from memory in half a century i think, the longer the world goes without seeing titans around and the less people will be concerned about them. Same is true for the fear of nuclear weapons in the west
@@thenenhunter2600 That is however a moot question, the answer is that doing something like that would take them a long time, creating a nuke would take several decades at least, in that time any nation that has already started trading with Paradis can obtain Iceburst stones and become very more developed and powerful, giving them a geostrategic advantage, that will cause other countries to be forced to do the same so as not to be left behind. And there is another factor that you do not consider, perhaps the opinion of the Eldians is low right now, but that is due to Marley using them as weapons of war for a century to achieve their world predominance, if Marley is crushed by a coalition supported by Paradis the Titans will no longer be used for war, so fear and hatred against the Eldians will decrease over time. Not to forget that the Tybur family was extremely loved internationally even though it was no secret that they were Eldians. In the same way it seems that the Honorary Marleyans were also loved by the general Marley public considering the farewell they gave to Marcel, Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie before going to Paradis. With all this in mind, Paradis could have tried to fight a PR campaign, especially with some charismatic figure like Erwin, in which they after crushing the Marleyan military forces and sinking their fleet force a peace treaty against Marley that liberate all the nations that had been annexed. And they then declare themselves the saviors of the world who defeated and dismantled the terrible Marleyan Empire, just as the Tybur family did against the Eldian Empire, in order to gain some support. From there, added to their commercial offers, the good-will they have earned with the liberated nations plus the fact that they have used the Rumbling in a limited way, showing that they had no intention of using it to trample the world, it should had being enough to create a place for them in international politics, as time goes by, without more Titan Warfare and with more and more countries sending their Eldian populations to Paradis in a situation similar to Israel with the Jews, Paradis manages to develop technologically until becoming an economic superpower, but which remains neutral in foreign policy, and which has also prioritized the creation of a large stockpile of nukes to have a deterrance of mutually assured destruction and thus guarantee its future. Also remember that the power of the Founder can be used for many things, not just to do the Rumbling, but also to create any infrastructure they want in no time, to create basically all the natural resources that they could want and also have a workforce in the form of Titans that can work without any rest and doing things that are much difficult to any normal human, all of this means that this power is so OP that they could very well improve their situation on all levels at at very high speed. Hell, they could use the power of the Founder to force Willy Tybur to make an speech in favour of Paradis, sharing the truth of Karl Fritz, telling about some of the actual good things that the Eldian Empire did like making roads or farming stuff and finally saying that Paradis have no intention to do the Rumbling as an offensive attack ever.
Could you do a video on how far Eren would get with other titans Like go through all of them as a suggestion (Aside from the attack founding and warhammer) Also how would a world war Titan go with the mid east paradis and hizuru go against Marley with Eren armin and Zeke vs riener porco pieck and tyber and their respective forces go
Can you make What if Bertholdt got eaten instead Marcel? So that the walls never fell. I want to see scenario where majority of survey corp soldiers and military is alive fighting off an actual marleyan invasion and Eren using the full power of the Founding Titan over Eldians
It is interesting to note that when take out eren and zeke (the 2 people who already had a plan) from the story. You STILL have to do the rumbling. It is fitting since eren could see the rumbling in the future. So he went along with it instead of fighting it. I can only imagine everybody's face when they tell eren to do the rumbling. If I was eren in that situation I would say something along the lines of: So you want me to do the rumbling? It looks like you accepted the fact your plan just wasn't going to work. Why did you think I didn't agree to this plan in the first place? The only good thing you did was delay the rumbling by convincing me to try diplomacy first. This was going to happen but I let you try anyway to prove to you it was pointless in the end. Oh well. Time to do what I said needed to be done, despite your best efforts. *starts the rumbling.* That is what I would do in that situation.
@@smelllikeyourmomspirit7394 yeah because war was inevitable weather anyone wanted to say it or not and really what can be considered “morally right” in that situation?
@@chrismenary3340 Simple questions for you. Is killing a pig morally right? No, because you took a life from livings. Is killing a pig for food morally right? Again, no, because you took a life from livings. BUT it’s understandable and must do in order humans to survive from starvation. (Noted that all plants are livings too, so whether it’s an animal or plant being killed, it’s not morally justified but understandable and logical.)
with the state Marley and the mid east were after the 4 year war. Paradis probably could have kept attacking and capturing ships and just grind their economy into dust. Not completley stomping everyone out. Paradis didn't have the same resourse restrictions that the rest of the nations had. Plus having Hizuru as an ally after that definetly opens up the possiblity for negotiation.I don't think the Rumbling was even needed, I also don't think the writer had a big interest in politics at this point in the manga. might be why he opted for the messy depressing ending. if it hadn't went the Rumbling route, there's easily another arc worth of content to work with in this story
Great video as always. I wanted to know what you think of AoT no Requiem. You made a video a while back on the problems with Eren's character in the canon ending, but given your critiques with him in that video, I'm assuming that, like me, you believe he was handled even worse in No Requiem. I also noticed a reply by you stating that there were problems from the beginning of the final season, which writing from the very end fails to address (Let me guess: it had to do primarily with Eren and Mikasa's lack of development in their relationship) I'm not asking for an entire video on this subject, but maybe a response with 3 or so points that made it great or bad and why. Also, if it isn't already clear, I am eagerly anticipating your video in the far future on your ideal Attack on Titan ending.
I’ve actually covered pieces of it in multiple videos. For starters the world building. The impact of the Rumbling was neutered by the fact only nameless people and places were getting destroyed. We need more information regarding why diplomacy was failing so the Scouts objections had actual arguments against the Yeagerist. Eren’s and Mikasa’s romance or lack thereof was a big one considering the role it played in the end. But honestly the majority of my reversions of the final seasons are centered around the world building and plot points created from those changes. Regarding AOT no requiem, I want to see how it ends first. I’m not the biggest fan of Eren’s character but I can’t really criticize it until I see where it ends up.
@@thenenhunter2600 I actually came up with a minor change to the story that fixes some of this: In the forest on the night the Rumbling begins, when the warriors beg for her help to stop the rumbling, she imposes upon them one crucial condition: They must come up with a way to spare Paradis from foreign nations seeking vengeance for the rumbling. Eventually, Magath comes up with one way, a risky way, but a path to coexistence nonetheless. Basically, because Magath is now Marley's primary representative and effectively the leader of the Global Alliance, the plan requires that he stay alive to vouch for the island after (and assuming) they are able to stop the Rumbling. I came up with another one that fixes Eren's character in the finale: Initially, when the alliance arrives to face him, he tries to convince them to stop and return to Paradis, and when he realizes that if he does not stop the rumbling, his friends will die trying, he accepts it and exposes Zeke's real body, then he still goes Colossal after Armin blows up the Founding Titan's body, and his conversation in the paths with Armin starts out differently, with Eren blowing up at him in anger, condemning him for trying to stop Eren from saving the island and rejecting his wishes to save them, with Armin then calling out Eren on his god complex. (If you want a better picture, imagine how Rod reacts to Historia rejecting the titan serum in Season 3, except magnitudes worse) the rest of the conversation happens very similarly to the anime finale, as that is the infinitely superior iteration.
There was no diplomatic option as at the end credits they still attacked paradi islands when they gained numbers and technology. Eren was right it seems
This may be a weird request, but could you elaborate on how egregious it is? I was intentionally cutting the pauses between sentences because in older videos I felt the pauses were too extreme. But it seems I may have over-corrected.
@@thenenhunter2600 it feels like you cut into the sentence too early. It kind of sounds like you suddenly start talking. I also noticed you speak every line practically the same, you start with the same inflection every time, speak a bit and then say the final word with the same inflection everytime, and then it starts again. Both of them together makes ot pretty jarring. But i would say the bigger issue is when cutting out the gaps you cut too much and it sounds like there is a tiny skip start into you speaking. With talking you can tell.when someone starts because the sound waves have a gradual rise in volume even if its only a quarter of a second long. Maybe if you are using line a touch to speak button try holding it a little longer before speaking, or if its from cutting try cutting in a little earlier.
@@thenenhunter2600 im entirely glad to help, creating videos takes time, practice, trial and error, the content of the video is good. Narrating takes practice man but keep at it. I hope my comments arent seen as mean as that isnt how they are meant.
Bro Marley not destroyed paradis island but because eren killed 80 percent population big questions how many alive Marley people I'm not sure Marley attacks paradis island
If you read and analysts the story even if eren didn't attack marley it will still happen people outsideword hate eldians it's even state gabi friend out side in marley treat a eldians much worst than marley . You can even see before eren attack the ambassadors crying tears of joy because they want to exterminat eldians in paradise
Jesus how can you speculate on diplomacy of the world when you don't understand the story It wasn't eren that burned that bridge - it was willy Tybur and declaration of war. The second that happend eren had no choice because the invasion and destruction of Paradis was inevitable anyway. And declaration of war happend almost simply as a consequence of Eren getting founding titan and what that brought. If you here speculate "how to achieve diplomacy without the story being as it is aka Eren not being relevant" then the whole argument is pointless and redundant because that's not the story and we delve deeper into fan fiction with each argument So no, Eren had no choice, 100% rumbling was the only way. After the declaration. And he will achieve it.
1. Marley was launching preemptive strikes on paradis for many years and sucessfully broke the walls protecting the island kingdom from the pure titans sent by marley. This lead to many deaths including erens mother 2. Tyburs declared war with 80% of the worlds leaders in attendance hence peace talks and diplomacy would not work. Not when war was declared on a minority people by a greedy racist world These two points give you your answer : diplomacy wouldn't work and traitor armin and the alliance are nothing but glorified cringevengers for thinking they could make peace with a bunch of power hungry racist countries.
Diplomacy was very clearly never possible lmao. What I would say is possible was Eren and paradise doing specific attacks to remove marley leadership. There would still be war but at least they could spare the common person. This would cause way more eldians inside the walls to die though and Eren did not want that period.
Fun Fact About This Video: My views on the subject now are different than when I made the video on "What If Eren Did Not Kiss Historia's Hand". A lot of it was caused by the comments from the video. For example, I was reminded that Hizuru had the first aeroplane ready after Eren attacked the festival which could have been used for diplomacy.
But HOW?! the entire world was against Marley for 5 years. There's a lot of political hot water that needs to cool down.
Please come back to us 😢
When King Francis I of France was captured at the Battle of Pavia, his mother, the Duchess of Savoy, wrote a letter to Sultan Suleiman of the Ottoman Empire for aid to rescue her son and to distract the Habsburg's domains. And that is what laid the foundation to the Franco-Ottoman alliance in the first place. Originally, the alliance was meant to be temporary. But due to that the Italian Wars and the Habsburg-Ottoman Wars remained inconclusive and nothing but temporary respites were brought for all involved parties because King Charles I of Spain needed to deal with a league of Protestant leaders within the Holy Roman Empire, the alliance between France and the Ottoman Empire persisted longer than intended. And there was even a political debate about such an alliance at the time with some condemning it while others defending it. So the same can be applied to Paradis Island and the nations that made up the Mid-East Eyalets as well as long as Marley remained a threat to both sides.
This is really beyond the scope of the story but i find it very hard to believe the Eldeans wouldn't seek to expand beyond the island after decisively winning a world war. Which makes the epilogue symbolizing the destruction of the Eldeans seem extremely contrived as by that point the Eldeans would realistically make up a large percent of the population in all territories.
Agreed. Knowing the Yeagerist, they'd immediately push for control over the mainland. They wouldn't just sit around for the world to rebuild and strike back.
which means they were pushed back alot
You’re making a ton of assumptions, one namely being that Paradis is destroyed by some outsider non eldian group. We know in the epilogue that paradis became war mongers. They likely did push out, and the world was likely made up of different eldian states as well as a handful of surviving nations from the rumbling. There’s a decent chance Paradis wasn’t destroyed by powerful outsiders, but rather by emerging eldian colonial states. Wars between former colonies and their home states is common in our world. Secondly, hundreds of years is a lot of time for geopolitical balances to change. Countries could have survived the eldian expansion by becoming vassal states , and eventually usurping and destroying them as shown in the epilogue. That is literally what Marley did to the original Eldia.
@@albertanmotorcyclist6419 it's funny you mention making a ton of assumptions lol
@@RiqMoran nope, just predictions with what information we have. Your assumptions don’t make sense though, and you assume the ending is contrived because of it. Why is it so hard to believe that hundreds or thousands of years in the future paradis is destroyed? All powerful states fall one day. It’s less that the ending is contrived and more that it’s a logical likelihood that paradis would be destroyed, which also lines up perfectly with the worldview of the series. It’s also brought up several times in season 4 that paradis and eldians will fight amongst themselves if the rest of the world is gone. Seems pretty logical that it eventually happens after the rumbling
4 YEARS of uncertainty, fear and hate building because of the results of the end of season 3 make war inevitable, if not very VERY possible. Marley was in an awful state at the end of it...and they were forced to go to war and learn titans are becoming obsolete.
Most people don't use their brains with this ending. No where it's implied that ONLY paradise gets destroyed. Paradise island was a technological behemoth by the end and they definitely had weapons far more powerful than what we have today. By that logic we know if 2 nuclear power countries went to war, the world will come to an end. Which means that not only paradis got destroyed but the rest of the world did too. We see the missiles being launched from paradise island.
Exactly, THANK YOU; also, no-one said either that it was _actually_ TOTAL ANNIHILATION; like, isn't it also likely that Shiganshina was just attacked during some war whose scope we know NOTHING about ? The point of the story is to NOT assume these kinds of things, after all; in the end, I'm pretty sure that the point of that scene was just to show that "Man will always find a reason for War"
People also think that paradise didn't solve anything after the rumbling even tho the technology during the ending implies at least a few generations of global or national peace meaning our main characters did succeed in their advocation for peace
It's also bigger than that, a good author encourages the audience to use their brains.
Also, there is more evidence to imply that only Paradis was destroyed than the opposite.
As we only see Paradis get bombed.
Politics is complicated. But yeah, things would have to be done in the long term.
While wrong in condemning their own people to die, there is something in the non-violent approach of the king’s vow. Maybe Attack of Titan could’ve become a generational story, one in defiance of hate from the outside world, to overcome the king’s vow, and to outlast Marley’s dominance on the world stage. It makes me wonder what a post Marley dominant world would be like in this scenario - Titan shifters being repossessed by different nations, the borders of Paradis being open to Eldians from different countries maybe.
I like to think that, if Attack on Titan was a more hopeful story, it would have sought true peace, regardless of the odds. While not everyone would want to make peace with them, I think a satisfying ending would be to leave hope for a better world.
(That said, a part 2 to this would be rad.)
Idk but i think due to paradise’s rep even with the help of Hizuru paradise would still be destroyed by Marley if not the world
Would you still destroy a small island with a small population that hasn’t done shit in a century and doesn’t plan to just on rep alone ?
To me it seems like the rep thing is just current discourse at the time. It could be swayed with efforts from Paradis to shift the grudge on the old eldian aristocracy and marley
You are my hero! Keep winning man these videos ROCK!!!! It’s like AOT College
It is good to have video from you again!
The goat is back 💯💯💯
I love your videos ❤
Id say no. Imo the only way they could even have a chance of diplomacy is a pack with the tybur family. Let's not forget that the main reason Marley pulled an attack on paradis was not because of hatred but resources and the founding titan because of rival nations. They depended on eldians and the titan powers for so long, and other nations' technology are making them obsolete. Soon, the eldians would become obsolete and be persecuted and extinguished. Paradis would be bombed, and erens existence as a threat to the world makes it worse. There is no real way for pardis and eldians to have peace.
If eren did the 100% eren will buried the cycle of hatred forever I don't care about the civil war if it happen it normal cycle of violence never stop but the cycle of hatred can be stop
@sragonlast5723 The cycle of hatred will be stopped when either side is annihilated. Either eren kills the world or the world kills eren and eldia.
I don't think eldians would be killed. Persecuted sure but not killed.
Hating people is one thing, getting around to killing them is another.
@@akiraraiku they were used as meat literal meat shields in war. The hatred for eldians runs so deep that it wouldn't be outlandish for Marley to genocide them rather than spend resources keeping them fed and housed. Hitler had less of a reason to genocide the jews and he still did it. It's either they get killed or they get enslaved.
Love the content man
can you do a what if, if dina ate bertholt instead of ignoring him?
How do people watch the anime, listen to the characters pronounce words literally hundreds of times, and still manage to pronounce these words wrong.
Which words was I mispronouncing?
What if the scouts had thunder spears during the first attack on shiganshina
Bro please do a long part 3 of what if zeke and pieck went to paradis instead of bertholdt and Annie
I think the declaration of war festival was a perfect opportunity for armin to call for peace and explain how paradis is not a threat to the whole world. Publishers and journalists, politicians and world leaders were all gathered there and armin could threaten to kill them all with the colossal titan if they didn't hear him out. The entire world would hear paradis plea for diplomatic peace. This was probably the best opportunity paradis had and they blew it
You say that.
But armin is LITERALLY threatening to kill them if they don't listen to him.
Even IF they call off plan to invade paradis now.
What stopping them from waiting a little bit and invade anyway.
That plan would have been a even WORSER version of the 50 year plan.
Next Video What if Eren Use Full Abilities War Hammer Titan War for Paradis Arc
The show pretty much answered this in the 138 cabin scene, where eren does not attack in Liberio. Therefore not inciting any more additional fear that was not already present to the world. This would have presumably given hange and armin time to try to look for peace and talk it out like they hoped. But we are told events lead to the destruction of Paradis, with eren saying the only way to survive was to run. So the declaration of war is still made, Paradis dies, and presumably with the scapegoat island eldians gone the world turns there disdain to all remaining eldians that they already hated and eventually eliminates them too. So no diplomacy was not possible.
Great video man. Paradi was in such a huge pickle. Violence was the only answer
I'm personally not certain if Paradise using the rumbling to stop a Marleyian invasion is enough to permanently scar their global reputation. All they did is halt an invading force, making no civilian casualties. And it would also permanently end the Marleyian empire (they will never be able to recover from losing their invading force), giving all other nations a chance at retribution.
Paradise showing its power would also give them an opportunity to communicate with diplomats from other nations. They now have to be taken seriously. But worry not we don't want to kill you. And you know all that ice burst stone you guys have been getting from Hizuru? You can also buy it from us for cheaper.
Lastly, there is also another unique service Paradise can offer the word. Paradise can relief other nations of their Subject population. Genociding your local Subjects is costly and dangerous. Why not send them to Paradise instead? Paradise could do with a larger population of skilled workers who can help industrialize it. And the other nations could do with fewer biothreats living in their borders.
But even when I'm this optimistic I'm not naïve. The biggest problem for Paradise would be their long term position in the world. Even if things lighten up and animosity dies down there is the simple fact that Subjects of Ymir are inherently dangerous. At any moment you friendly Subject of Ymir neighbor could erupt into a mindless flesh eating abomination. Your adorable subject child you had with your subject wife could turn into a titan while you're holding them in your arms. What does this mean for Eldians in the long run? Do all of them have to remain isolated on Paradise forever because they're too dangerous to let into foreign countries? Could a possible cure for titanism be created? These are questions I don't think any of us could answer.
Regarding your point on the Iceburst stones. Why wouldn't the world not use the technology to create a weapon to obliterate Paradis? From there perspective, they're one rogue Eldian away from getting flattened.
@@thenenhunter2600
Multiple reasons:
1: Paradise has first access to ice-burst stone and will be industrializing. Any weapons that could be made with Iceburst stone are weapons the Islanders could also make. They already know what planes look like, and they also already have experience with using Ice Burst stone with flight. So it stands to reason that they could engineer their own planes.
2: Let's be real, until they develop nuclear weapons there is no weapon they could make that could defeat the rumbling. Nukes aren't obvious developments world leaders know will be created, and it won't be till someone actually detonates one that everyone realizes this could be used to defeat the rumbling, and then it would require a couple of decades to create enough of them. And at that point, Paradise might have developed their own nuclear technology, creating another stalemate situation (in all fairness, I doubt Paradise would be able ot create nukes in time given the specialized knowledge and industry required for it. And we also don't know if Paradise has any uranium deposits.)
3: All this stalling, combined with Paradise's constant attempts to create good will, will reduce animosity. Assuming the world becomes more liberal as time goes on (seems likely since there already were Eldian rights organizations) genocide of the Eldians will also become less popular as time goes on.
In my view the most realistic scenario is one where Paradise can stall long enough and make enough good will between them and the outside that invading them is no longer popular among the general populace. Then Paradise will most likely spend the rest of its existence as a sort of prison colony where Eldians are kept. They're not allowed to leave unless it's under strict supervision, and non-subjects aren't allowed to enter unless it's under strict supervision. This will go forever, or until a cure to titanism is discovered. I think curing titanism is actually possible since that is what happens at the end of the story. Maybe there is some way of doing it while circumventing Ymir and the worm.
@@thenenhunter2600if with the advent of technology you shove the titan power under the carpet. Stop using the shifters and there are no spinal fluid to turn people into titan.
It would fade from memory in half a century i think, the longer the world goes without seeing titans around and the less people will be concerned about them.
Same is true for the fear of nuclear weapons in the west
@@thenenhunter2600
That is however a moot question, the answer is that doing something like that would take them a long time, creating a nuke would take several decades at least, in that time any nation that has already started trading with Paradis can obtain Iceburst stones and become very more developed and powerful, giving them a geostrategic advantage, that will cause other countries to be forced to do the same so as not to be left behind.
And there is another factor that you do not consider, perhaps the opinion of the Eldians is low right now, but that is due to Marley using them as weapons of war for a century to achieve their world predominance, if Marley is crushed by a coalition supported by Paradis the Titans will no longer be used for war, so fear and hatred against the Eldians will decrease over time.
Not to forget that the Tybur family was extremely loved internationally even though it was no secret that they were Eldians. In the same way it seems that the Honorary Marleyans were also loved by the general Marley public considering the farewell they gave to Marcel, Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie before going to Paradis.
With all this in mind, Paradis could have tried to fight a PR campaign, especially with some charismatic figure like Erwin, in which they after crushing the Marleyan military forces and sinking their fleet force a peace treaty against Marley that liberate all the nations that had been annexed. And they then declare themselves the saviors of the world who defeated and dismantled the terrible Marleyan Empire, just as the Tybur family did against the Eldian Empire, in order to gain some support.
From there, added to their commercial offers, the good-will they have earned with the liberated nations plus the fact that they have used the Rumbling in a limited way, showing that they had no intention of using it to trample the world, it should had being enough to create a place for them in international politics, as time goes by, without more Titan Warfare and with more and more countries sending their Eldian populations to Paradis in a situation similar to Israel with the Jews, Paradis manages to develop technologically until becoming an economic superpower, but which remains neutral in foreign policy, and which has also prioritized the creation of a large stockpile of nukes to have a deterrance of mutually assured destruction and thus guarantee its future.
Also remember that the power of the Founder can be used for many things, not just to do the Rumbling, but also to create any infrastructure they want in no time, to create basically all the natural resources that they could want and also have a workforce in the form of Titans that can work without any rest and doing things that are much difficult to any normal human, all of this means that this power is so OP that they could very well improve their situation on all levels at at very high speed. Hell, they could use the power of the Founder to force Willy Tybur to make an speech in favour of Paradis, sharing the truth of Karl Fritz, telling about some of the actual good things that the Eldian Empire did like making roads or farming stuff and finally saying that Paradis have no intention to do the Rumbling as an offensive attack ever.
Could you do a video on how far Eren would get with other titans
Like go through all of them as a suggestion
(Aside from the attack founding and warhammer)
Also how would a world war Titan go with the mid east paradis and hizuru go against Marley with Eren armin and Zeke vs riener porco pieck and tyber and their respective forces go
Can you make What if Bertholdt got eaten instead Marcel? So that the walls never fell.
I want to see scenario where majority of survey corp soldiers and military is alive fighting off an actual marleyan invasion and Eren using the full power of the Founding Titan over Eldians
Next Video What if Eren Eat Porco And Gets Jaw Titan Power Marley Arc
I hate to ask but when are you going to upload your next video?
Very soon. I’m targeting this Saturday or at the latest Monday.
@@thenenhunter2600Bro you good?
@@ErenYeager-os5lv I'm good, just fell off schedule again
I have a request: What if Dina ate Bertolt?
That was the most voted on video in the Poll, so I'll be making that video
@@thenenhunter2600 When will it be released
@@thenenhunter2600 Out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how interesting does "What if the Warriors never attacked Trost?" sound?
DUDE I JUST COMMENTED THIS WITHOUT EVEN SEEING IT
I’m working on it right now. Most likely within the next week at the soonest
diplomacy is very hard considering willy tybur used his charisma & influence to further deepened & focused global hate on paradis.
Diplomacy, or war without WMD's could have worked.
Yeas a new video
What if mikassa had royal blood
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
It is interesting to note that
when take out eren and zeke (the 2 people who already had a plan) from the story.
You STILL have to do the rumbling.
It is fitting since eren could see the rumbling in the future.
So he went along with it instead of fighting it.
I can only imagine everybody's face when they tell eren to do the rumbling.
If I was eren in that situation I would say something along the lines of:
So you want me to do the rumbling? It looks like you accepted the fact your plan just wasn't going to work. Why did you think I didn't agree to this plan in the first place? The only good thing you did was delay the rumbling by convincing me to try diplomacy first. This was going to happen but I let you try anyway to prove to you it was pointless in the end.
Oh well. Time to do what I said needed to be done, despite your best efforts.
*starts the rumbling.*
That is what I would do in that situation.
So was Eren’s attack on Marley justified?
I'm tired of these 'justfied or not' statement jesus christ, ain't nothing justified in this show lmao. but that has nothing to do with 'must' to do.
@@smelllikeyourmomspirit7394 fair enough
@@chrismenary3340What Eren did is right choice, but not morally right.
@@smelllikeyourmomspirit7394 yeah because war was inevitable weather anyone wanted to say it or not and really what can be considered “morally right” in that situation?
@@chrismenary3340 Simple questions for you.
Is killing a pig morally right? No, because you took a life from livings.
Is killing a pig for food morally right? Again, no, because you took a life from livings. BUT it’s understandable and must do in order humans to survive from starvation. (Noted that all plants are livings too, so whether it’s an animal or plant being killed, it’s not morally justified but understandable and logical.)
with the state Marley and the mid east were after the 4 year war. Paradis probably could have kept attacking and capturing ships and just grind their economy into dust. Not completley stomping everyone out. Paradis didn't have the same resourse restrictions that the rest of the nations had. Plus having Hizuru as an ally after that definetly opens up the possiblity for negotiation.I don't think the Rumbling was even needed, I also don't think the writer had a big interest in politics at this point in the manga. might be why he opted for the messy depressing ending. if it hadn't went the Rumbling route, there's easily another arc worth of content to work with in this story
Great video as always. I wanted to know what you think of AoT no Requiem. You made a video a while back on the problems with Eren's character in the canon ending, but given your critiques with him in that video, I'm assuming that, like me, you believe he was handled even worse in No Requiem. I also noticed a reply by you stating that there were problems from the beginning of the final season, which writing from the very end fails to address (Let me guess: it had to do primarily with Eren and Mikasa's lack of development in their relationship) I'm not asking for an entire video on this subject, but maybe a response with 3 or so points that made it great or bad and why. Also, if it isn't already clear, I am eagerly anticipating your video in the far future on your ideal Attack on Titan ending.
I’ve actually covered pieces of it in multiple videos. For starters the world building. The impact of the Rumbling was neutered by the fact only nameless people and places were getting destroyed. We need more information regarding why diplomacy was failing so the Scouts objections had actual arguments against the Yeagerist. Eren’s and Mikasa’s romance or lack thereof was a big one considering the role it played in the end. But honestly the majority of my reversions of the final seasons are centered around the world building and plot points created from those changes.
Regarding AOT no requiem, I want to see how it ends first. I’m not the biggest fan of Eren’s character but I can’t really criticize it until I see where it ends up.
@@thenenhunter2600 I actually came up with a minor change to the story that fixes some of this: In the forest on the night the Rumbling begins, when the warriors beg for her help to stop the rumbling, she imposes upon them one crucial condition: They must come up with a way to spare Paradis from foreign nations seeking vengeance for the rumbling. Eventually, Magath comes up with one way, a risky way, but a path to coexistence nonetheless. Basically, because Magath is now Marley's primary representative and effectively the leader of the Global Alliance, the plan requires that he stay alive to vouch for the island after (and assuming) they are able to stop the Rumbling.
I came up with another one that fixes Eren's character in the finale: Initially, when the alliance arrives to face him, he tries to convince them to stop and return to Paradis, and when he realizes that if he does not stop the rumbling, his friends will die trying, he accepts it and exposes Zeke's real body, then he still goes Colossal after Armin blows up the Founding Titan's body, and his conversation in the paths with Armin starts out differently, with Eren blowing up at him in anger, condemning him for trying to stop Eren from saving the island and rejecting his wishes to save them, with Armin then calling out Eren on his god complex. (If you want a better picture, imagine how Rod reacts to Historia rejecting the titan serum in Season 3, except magnitudes worse) the rest of the conversation happens very similarly to the anime finale, as that is the infinitely superior iteration.
There was no diplomatic option as at the end credits they still attacked paradi islands when they gained numbers and technology. Eren was right it seems
The L deans . . . L DEADNS. hehehe
Dude why do you cut your voice so much? Its so obvious every time when you cut in a new sentence. Cant even get a minute in becuase its so jarring.
This may be a weird request, but could you elaborate on how egregious it is? I was intentionally cutting the pauses between sentences because in older videos I felt the pauses were too extreme. But it seems I may have over-corrected.
@@thenenhunter2600 it feels like you cut into the sentence too early. It kind of sounds like you suddenly start talking. I also noticed you speak every line practically the same, you start with the same inflection every time, speak a bit and then say the final word with the same inflection everytime, and then it starts again.
Both of them together makes ot pretty jarring.
But i would say the bigger issue is when cutting out the gaps you cut too much and it sounds like there is a tiny skip start into you speaking.
With talking you can tell.when someone starts because the sound waves have a gradual rise in volume even if its only a quarter of a second long.
Maybe if you are using line a touch to speak button try holding it a little longer before speaking, or if its from cutting try cutting in a little earlier.
@@thenenhunter2600 im entirely glad to help, creating videos takes time, practice, trial and error, the content of the video is good. Narrating takes practice man but keep at it.
I hope my comments arent seen as mean as that isnt how they are meant.
No they aren’t seen as mean spirited as all. I find them very constructive.
Bro Marley not destroyed paradis island but because eren killed 80 percent population big questions how many alive Marley people I'm not sure Marley attacks paradis island
What are you talking about?
If you read and analysts the story even if eren didn't attack marley it will still happen people outsideword hate eldians it's even state gabi friend out side in marley treat a eldians much worst than marley . You can even see before eren attack the ambassadors crying tears of joy because they want to exterminat eldians in paradise
Jesus how can you speculate on diplomacy of the world when you don't understand the story
It wasn't eren that burned that bridge - it was willy Tybur and declaration of war. The second that happend eren had no choice because the invasion and destruction of Paradis was inevitable anyway. And declaration of war happend almost simply as a consequence of Eren getting founding titan and what that brought.
If you here speculate "how to achieve diplomacy without the story being as it is aka Eren not being relevant" then the whole argument is pointless and redundant because that's not the story and we delve deeper into fan fiction with each argument
So no, Eren had no choice, 100% rumbling was the only way. After the declaration. And he will achieve it.
1. Marley was launching preemptive strikes on paradis for many years and sucessfully broke the walls protecting the island kingdom from the pure titans sent by marley. This lead to many deaths including erens mother
2. Tyburs declared war with 80% of the worlds leaders in attendance hence peace talks and diplomacy would not work. Not when war was declared on a minority people by a greedy racist world
These two points give you your answer : diplomacy wouldn't work and traitor armin and the alliance are nothing but glorified cringevengers for thinking they could make peace with a bunch of power hungry racist countries.
Diplomacy was very clearly never possible lmao. What I would say is possible was Eren and paradise doing specific attacks to remove marley leadership. There would still be war but at least they could spare the common person. This would cause way more eldians inside the walls to die though and Eren did not want that period.
Legit seeing Paradis getting genocided by the outside world launching nuclear weapons on them was the funniest shit I've seen in anime history! 🤣🤣😂
huh?
@@New_friskbros an edgelord
Must be an Israeli
@@mervinstheadore9742 Eren died a virgin and accomplished nothing! Lmao