I did voice recording before the "reduce" compromise was put forward and there are enough people that were in the "remove" group beforehand that it's effectively the same thing.
Also multipath error is a real phenomenon irl so removing it entirely isn't even more realistic. It's oversimplified in game for sure but by all means it is a real effect. They could probably tone it down, maybe lower the altitude where it takes effect, but I think it should stay in game.
>Gaijin tests multipathing on dev server >doesn't go well >playerbase demands multipathing removed >Gaijin ignores >playerbase suggests 260km^2 maps >gaijin removes multipath with arrival of 260km^2 maps >260km^2 maps require better servers >gaijin gets better servers >early awacs implemented to counter airfield camping >growlingsidewinderlarperfantasyimplemented.jpg >problem detected >new servers cost money >gaijin loves money >nothing happens >fin Edit: medium range radar SAM sites behind airfields would probably be a good idea in this scenario i.e. hawk site. That or just buff airfield aa
Dude the people who spam those maps exclusively are itching like they have an allergic reaction for the day multipathing is dropped. You know they aren't paying attention to things like this and they're going to spam Sinai like mad immediately after the update in the blind hope that the Fox 3 missiles do what they have recurring dreams over.
I could tell you were already more reasonable than 99% of the people talking on this subject when I saw you maintaining your speed in a dogfight, sad that its not common sense. Good video.
Im pretty much exclusively an Air RB player. Why Gaijin refuses to put out some type of ltm, or playtest for the reduction and/or removal of this mechanic (especially in sim) is beyond me. Gaijin seems so determined to continue pushing the game forwards with more and more advanced tech, but simply refuse to take any time to create the infrastructure to properly utilize these new toys. I think for me, this trend started when they skipped any missile armed, or early afterburning F86s and MiG 17s, and skipped to F100s and MiG 19s. This is the first patch where truly lethal Fox 3 missiles are being added, and would be the perfect time to figure out how the hell to balance them in a way that keeps them effective, yet not too oppressive.
@@nuka. I mean, in the same way the current R27ER isn't really a game changer (despite its superiority over its peers) yes, I don't think Fox 3s will be particularly incredible for netting kills. The R27ER can land you a couple easy kills on people too stupid to know any better, but it's absurdly easy to counter, same as any other Fox 1. It's the reason the meta favors jets with insane flight performance, lots of countermeasures, and good IR missiles, such as the Gripen. You can kinda just fly 100m or lower, and *that's it*, you've now managed to land yourself in a merge with any aircraft in game, where you will easily win.
The introduction of IRCCM missiles ruined team balance because only one side got the invisible and impossible to flare version. ARH missiles are coming to both sides and are all very comparable. As the theoretical battle line between teams inch’s closer to one’s airfields, reinforcement time favors the losing side. This makes it increasingly harder for one side to control the map. But yes I still agree we still need bigger maps and/or smaller team sizes to help prevent total map domination. But tbf, what you’re talking about doing requires at least 3 well coordinated teammates. Which, if you have, can already be used to dominate an EC map on the live server. MP doesn’t change this shortcoming, as it already exists in EC. And again, as Apollo said, reduce, NOT remove. I genuinely, sincerely mean that and I would protest its complete removal. We simply want MP to not be the default answer to beating radar missiles.
My primary issue with the removal of multipathing is RB. 16v16 is such a clusterfuck of sensory/attention overload as it is, and removing the safety of hugging trees would make the experience even more miserable
Let me put it in context. You are talking about the furball. The furball that develops because way too many people survive until that point because they all fly comically low. Fox 3 BVR isnt that much different to Fox 2 BVR considering that until the terminal phase of a fox 3 missile you are best advised to keep the lock. Maps like Sinai or something that are basically just flat whatever will suffer. But other maps might see benefit. They should reduce the effect of multipathing but not remove it. That would see less furballs, which would make TT ARB less of a clusterfuck. Take it as an opinion.
@@loneirregular1280 Yeah nah that logic doesn't work out. Furballs have been consistently a thing anytime gaijin fucks up and changes the mode to support them. You can't act like "people need to have less fun and die more to unavoidable missiles" is a solution.
@jpc6485 BVR is fun though, and Fox3s are not unavoidable. Terrain masking and striking with the least amount of warning should be a thing. Flying without radar. Notching / cranking. Fox 3s arent as deadly once you learn how to defend against radar missiles. But flying tree level is not fun. It doesnt require skill. Its like you push a button to be untrackable for radars. Froma big enough range you can also kinematically defeat a missile. Fox 3s arent true fire and forget missiles from a very long range.
I think if Gaijin just removes multipathing things will go bad really quickly, many people having to go cold to dodge a missile knowing there might be 12+ possible enemies homing in to kill you will make the game play slower and teams getting decimated based on luck
I don't see how that justifies a status quo where you can just charge toward your enemy with no consequences. Flying also isn't this binary situation where you're either flying hot or flying cold toward a target. It's not even like you're operating in 2 axes, you're a plane, you move in 3D space. With a surplrus of range and altitude you can fire a missile and crank, you can notch, pump, drive down incoming missiles, terrain mask, etc. The amount of players I've come across at top tier that don't even take chaff because multipathing makes radar missiles such a trivial concern is exhibit A of why this shit needs reworked.
If the altitude for multipathing is reduced people will not adapt to going up and leaning how to notch...they will just fly even lower as that is the simplest solution to their problem
Alright lets consider a removal and the consequence it will cause: RB will be unplayable you arent gonna notch a full team of 16 jets with 6-8 missiles each. For Sim its rather obvious the game mode will probably end, as red team is always outnumbered now imagine being outnumbered and your only solution is to notch but when you notch you are going in the direction of another enemy who you have to notch again [you dont have the T/W and energy retention to pull that off. This will lead to nobody wanting to play sim anymore.
Made a spreadsheet for this. Basically, if you want to have the same methodical, slow gameplay you see in WW2/early cold war sim, maps would have to be 500x500mi big at LEAST. I hate multipathing when it comes to 1-4v1-4 fights but I can easily see how its removal would make “critical mass” sim lobbies feel like getting your fingernails pulled out with pliers. I think larger maps with more shit to do in them would be cool but I also dont think a lot of sim players would want to fly 20-30min in their F-16C to lob a few AMRAAMs at some MiG-23s, top tier sim players dont have the patience of low tier sim players so we’re kinda in a funk regarding what to do, although i do think sim should be less accessible in general so the sim community can represent more distinct wants for their respective game mode
What im hearing is, instead of adapting to use all 128 of the kilometers we need to tailor to the same 5 areas of each map and have massive gaps in capability resulting in what is already a mass spawn killing fest. It takes like 3 minutes to get to the end of the map when youre mindlessly locked onto one guy and overfly the entire map to get within ten miles because you know launching any farther he could just pitch down 200m and be completely safe, waste a missile and your SL, and make anything that isnt long range IR obsolete because theyre just garbage by [in game] design due to being radar and susceptible to that in the first place.
I 100% agree that these are extremely real and valid issues that could result from lowering multipathing. But the good thing is the problem area's which would result are at least solvable with some other solutions which would limit the effectiveness of spawn camping. And the annoying passive gameplay that often arises in other modern sims is going to be naturally much les of a concern purely due to how WT is set up, with the competitive style game modes and economy which forces people to get rewards to service their sl balance and rp grind. Due to this people will inevitably actively engage and contest the objectives, try to win and prosecute kills after bvr into close range fights. Passive gameplay abusing stuff like proper air defenses is unlikely to happen enmass, as it wont generate any meaningful rewards at all, with extremely low PK max range missile shots and entirely forfeiting all objectives to the enemy - resulting in a guaranteed lost match. The real big problem imo - completely disregarding the whole MP realism issue - is we are entering a time, starting this patch - where radar missiles themselves are going to be so potent and manoeuvrable at close range that they will start to massively impact all close range fights - wayyyy more then current radar missiles ever have. With the current fox3's coming, even non-thrust vectoring variants are entirely capable of doing a complete 180 after launch, maintain track of the target through INS and have enough energy still to catch and kill them - throw in their HMD with full fire and forget capability up to 20km and everyone is going to be flinging them off at every available target they see just the same as fox2's. Changes to multipathing will both require and allow people to spend these potent missiles at range where they are much more easily delt with, and use them to keep their opponents at bay. In tern allowing for overall less restricted close range engagements once they are spent. In contrast, without any MP changes it provides people the opportunity to push without consequence headlong into the enemy and force combat inside their fox3 MAR, all the while retaining their full load of fox3's which (especially in groups) would create such a threat that it enforces a total and strict adherence to the 100m threshold on anyone in the vicinity. And while that's easy to do coming into the merge and at bvr ranges, actually maintaining flight within such a tiny altitude bracket is going to be practically impossible while also dogfighting and dodging all the IR's at the same time. With whoever accidentally climbs outside of this instantly having multiple fox3's incoming and getting slammed out of the air in short order. That style of gameplay which would result is going to be completely hellish and about as toxic as anything else foreseeable, definitely worse than any gameplay issues we've delt with up until now. The worst part is, its unfortunately going to be the inevitable result which cant be avoided if multipathing is left as a Band-Aid solution while stronger and stronger radar missiles continue to get added to the game. And while naturally such a circumstance is going to be way more likely to happen in air rb, where large scale 16v16 group furballs arise all the time, a similar story on a smaller scale will inevitably still happen in sim. So I absolutely agree that without any other changes reduction in multipathing could result in some really bad scenario's - but, personally i think at most they would be as bad those which would result without MP changes, and at least it allows for a future with actual healthy gameplay so long as the devs keep developing the game as needed. Thats my take on the whole issue so far, at least as it relates to potential gameplay problems.
I can't understand your viewpoint of this issue and I do agree with it I will say that the best solution is four gayjin to increase the Map sizes and add better spaa around airfields while reducing multipathing to 40 meters above the ground
They can do it as they did with BR - one day MP on, another - off (by off I mean reduced to the state when it at least will require some skill to not crash by flying so low cause it is laughable and kinda stupid that a plane that carries 7M’s/27ER’s/Fox-3’s and has 5km altitude advantage actually is at disadvantage compared to the guy in a plane that carries something like Skyflashes and who is flying straight at
This is making the assumption that the player-base adapts in the way that people intend. I can see it going another way...where you do some equally goofy shit like shoot all your R-27ERs at the same target and force a trade. Or where the missile saturation on the map is such that you run out of countermeasures while defending from a perpetual barrage of missiles. I've already done some testing on dev server and R27ER is much harder to defeat than any of the new ARH missiles. And if you are in anything other than a Gripen...being defensive against Su-27 is kind of an L because you will probably run out of counter-measures in sim.
Apparently they're just going to leave a whole 100m of multipathing safespace in the game to ''''balance'''' the fox3s. Still early days though, so let's give them a week or so in the live server
I’m waiting for the same people on the forums who asked to remove multipathing to start whining: “AIM-120/R-77/MICA IS SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DODGE, PLEASE NERF!!!1!”
I feel like the problem could be somewhat solved by reducing multipathing instead of completely removing it. Combined with reduced match sizes and maybe more cover on maps with largely flat terrain everyone would be able to somewhat use the strengh of his aircraft to a certain degree.
I love top tier sim but you touched all of the problems. I just want the matchmaking to be balanced which is easier said than done because the majority of the player base wants to spam blue team planes. Reducing multi pathing is good but the less skilled players will have no other choice but to learn which is what they should do.
Much worse? What? From later gen fox1 missiles like the aim-7M and aim-7P the effects of multipathing was nearly negated down to 5-30 meters. Not 100 meters that is is in war thunder. And the current fox3s in game are all speculated (we will never truly know unless someone leaks it) is down to 5-10 meters. Multipathing was only ever a problem for early gen radars and early gen PD radars
You can remove multipathing in sim, sure. You CANNOT do that currently with 16v16 teams in RB that gaijin isn't changing. (No that farce "opt in" settings doesn't count)
One thing I think is important is that we should not REMOVE multipathing, rather make it more realistic. Currently, there is a 100m threshold above the deck that just makes you invulnerable to radar missiles. If multipathing were made dependent on the radar set, the missiles being used, and the engagement conditions (eg. range, direction, etc.) it would be far less reliable and far more dynamic. The removal of multipathing should not be anyone's goal, rather it should just be developed further as to be more realistic. This includes older missiles suffering from multipathing more than modern ones, and mitigation techniques being implemented in some way to properly model how these missiles react to multipathing's effects.
True but do we even know how reallife missiles deal with multi pathing? From my limited knowledge of weapons guidance, partially turning of sensors and relying on inertial navigation might be real life solutions that "defeats" a real life phenomenon like multipathing radar waves. If that is how its dealt with, then defeatng a FOX3 might be like defeating a sidewinder IRRCM, you would be zigzagging close to the ground to the inirtial guidance would create the miss for you.
@@STGN01 haha it does that even in wt rn, you can only do it in RB effectively cause u get the missile tracking view - but if you break lock with an ER right before the missile hits it will go into INS and be very likely to hit the real target instead of tracking the ghost target into the ground. Unfortunately fox3's do their their own thing so we cant really make them do it too lol. In terms of the current missiles, yeah there is generally enough information out there that we know what the effective altitude engagement envelopes are for most things - and for those that we dont the known metrics for older missiles are so low(like in the single digits) that it doesn't really matter, the newer missile will be either equal to it or better.
Lol the IFF comment The japanese T2 has been awesome in sim, great in RB, just no rwr or CMs But even in sim, have another T2 on tail Will ping myself, say in chat that its me etc But ppl will lock with acm and fire, even tho they have iff radar, and then blame the radar for saying i tracked as "an enemy" lol
Hi, just a little editing critique, I could barely understand you over the audio. I would suggest for you to turn down the game audio so that people could better understand what you're saying. I have otherwise enjoyed the video so far!
Next time remember to lower the volume of the game in the background! Anyway, if people want so bad to eliminate MP, then I'd ask for a 6vs6 in maps that are at least 300x300km with multiple spaw locations and no interracial marriage between planes and techtree (on one side only planes from the ussr and the other only planes from western europe or us. No italian mig29, no f16s in the red team, no bs that could mqke the situation even more chaotic)
Ytp, the ultimate balance for spawn camping, etc, already exists. . . *Multipathing at low altitudes!* 😂 And it's not like merges will be forced, with no exception in the forseeable future, as fox1s and 3s will easily get more advanced at close ranges against cms. . . Lmao cope :3 Oh, and if those are too op? Everyone will either have to learn how to effectively pre-flare. Or die! :D Realism! 😂
Multipath good
No 🤬
LOVE YOURSELF
for me to POOP ON
We've already had our discussions on discord, but I'd like to reiterate. Reduce, not remove.
I did voice recording before the "reduce" compromise was put forward and there are enough people that were in the "remove" group beforehand that it's effectively the same thing.
@@squishface80085 Yep. It's a good video, just wanted to clarify
Also multipath error is a real phenomenon irl so removing it entirely isn't even more realistic. It's oversimplified in game for sure but by all means it is a real effect. They could probably tone it down, maybe lower the altitude where it takes effect, but I think it should stay in game.
Thats what some people want. To make it lower, not zero because currently it works up to like 90m above ground while irl it should be maybe like 5-10
@@Bombert54bro what are you smoking it only works up to like 20 meters top
Nobody I've seen here really gets the total idea of multipathing and it's annoying. They could really easily change it to be more realistic.
@toxickilljoy9037 ikr but some people be like no dont take the least brain demanding non realistic defensive tactic from us
@@Bombert54 I've thought about making a video about it but I've been also considering a copypasta
Can't be wrong about multipathing if I don't know what it is 😎😎😎
However having said that I need to go to the forums and ask for it to be removed because I might be bad.
>Gaijin tests multipathing on dev server
>doesn't go well
>playerbase demands multipathing removed
>Gaijin ignores
>playerbase suggests 260km^2 maps
>gaijin removes multipath with arrival of 260km^2 maps
>260km^2 maps require better servers
>gaijin gets better servers
>early awacs implemented to counter airfield camping
>growlingsidewinderlarperfantasyimplemented.jpg
>problem detected
>new servers cost money
>gaijin loves money
>nothing happens
>fin
Edit: medium range radar SAM sites behind airfields would probably be a good idea in this scenario i.e. hawk site. That or just buff airfield aa
260km maps?
@jordancourse5102 the current ones are 130km^2 in ec
If multipathing gets reduced, I'm hoping at least the community realises that Denmark and Sinai aren't the best maps to make lobbies for.
Dude the people who spam those maps exclusively are itching like they have an allergic reaction for the day multipathing is dropped.
You know they aren't paying attention to things like this and they're going to spam Sinai like mad immediately after the update in the blind hope that the Fox 3 missiles do what they have recurring dreams over.
I could tell you were already more reasonable than 99% of the people talking on this subject when I saw you maintaining your speed in a dogfight, sad that its not common sense. Good video.
Im pretty much exclusively an Air RB player. Why Gaijin refuses to put out some type of ltm, or playtest for the reduction and/or removal of this mechanic (especially in sim) is beyond me.
Gaijin seems so determined to continue pushing the game forwards with more and more advanced tech, but simply refuse to take any time to create the infrastructure to properly utilize these new toys.
I think for me, this trend started when they skipped any missile armed, or early afterburning F86s and MiG 17s, and skipped to F100s and MiG 19s. This is the first patch where truly lethal Fox 3 missiles are being added, and would be the perfect time to figure out how the hell to balance them in a way that keeps them effective, yet not too oppressive.
Do you think that fox 3s in a world with multipathing are not effective?
@@nuka. I mean, in the same way the current R27ER isn't really a game changer (despite its superiority over its peers) yes, I don't think Fox 3s will be particularly incredible for netting kills. The R27ER can land you a couple easy kills on people too stupid to know any better, but it's absurdly easy to counter, same as any other Fox 1. It's the reason the meta favors jets with insane flight performance, lots of countermeasures, and good IR missiles, such as the Gripen. You can kinda just fly 100m or lower, and *that's it*, you've now managed to land yourself in a merge with any aircraft in game, where you will easily win.
@@nuka.Yes
The introduction of IRCCM missiles ruined team balance because only one side got the invisible and impossible to flare version. ARH missiles are coming to both sides and are all very comparable.
As the theoretical battle line between teams inch’s closer to one’s airfields, reinforcement time favors the losing side. This makes it increasingly harder for one side to control the map. But yes I still agree we still need bigger maps and/or smaller team sizes to help prevent total map domination. But tbf, what you’re talking about doing requires at least 3 well coordinated teammates. Which, if you have, can already be used to dominate an EC map on the live server. MP doesn’t change this shortcoming, as it already exists in EC.
And again, as Apollo said, reduce, NOT remove. I genuinely, sincerely mean that and I would protest its complete removal. We simply want MP to not be the default answer to beating radar missiles.
You are aware russia didnt really use smokeless missiles tho china did much later on
My primary issue with the removal of multipathing is RB. 16v16 is such a clusterfuck of sensory/attention overload as it is, and removing the safety of hugging trees would make the experience even more miserable
Players will learn. 16v16 is already a clusterfuck. Changing this won’t make that any more or any less of a clusterfuck.
Let me put it in context.
You are talking about the furball.
The furball that develops because way too many people survive until that point because they all fly comically low.
Fox 3 BVR isnt that much different to Fox 2 BVR considering that until the terminal phase of a fox 3 missile you are best advised to keep the lock.
Maps like Sinai or something that are basically just flat whatever will suffer. But other maps might see benefit.
They should reduce the effect of multipathing but not remove it.
That would see less furballs, which would make TT ARB less of a clusterfuck.
Take it as an opinion.
@@PvtPartzz Nah, I will straight up never touch anything above 11.0 again if they turn off multipathing without fixing 16v16.
@@loneirregular1280 Yeah nah that logic doesn't work out. Furballs have been consistently a thing anytime gaijin fucks up and changes the mode to support them. You can't act like "people need to have less fun and die more to unavoidable missiles" is a solution.
@jpc6485 BVR is fun though, and Fox3s are not unavoidable.
Terrain masking and striking with the least amount of warning should be a thing. Flying without radar. Notching / cranking. Fox 3s arent as deadly once you learn how to defend against radar missiles.
But flying tree level is not fun. It doesnt require skill. Its like you push a button to be untrackable for radars. Froma big enough range you can also kinematically defeat a missile.
Fox 3s arent true fire and forget missiles from a very long range.
I think if Gaijin just removes multipathing things will go bad really quickly, many people having to go cold to dodge a missile knowing there might be 12+ possible enemies homing in to kill you will make the game play slower and teams getting decimated based on luck
And aam count even more. . .
The gameplay should be slower. That's one of the main problems everyone has with top tier air battles right now.
I don't see how that justifies a status quo where you can just charge toward your enemy with no consequences. Flying also isn't this binary situation where you're either flying hot or flying cold toward a target. It's not even like you're operating in 2 axes, you're a plane, you move in 3D space. With a surplrus of range and altitude you can fire a missile and crank, you can notch, pump, drive down incoming missiles, terrain mask, etc. The amount of players I've come across at top tier that don't even take chaff because multipathing makes radar missiles such a trivial concern is exhibit A of why this shit needs reworked.
@BlackjackTheLad idk, lol just make the radars stronger against clutter when the target is flying straight st them 😂
Nothing greater than a good beerthunder on a Monday afternoon.
If the altitude for multipathing is reduced people will not adapt to going up and leaning how to notch...they will just fly even lower as that is the simplest solution to their problem
That will make it more dangerous
Alright lets consider a removal and the consequence it will cause:
RB will be unplayable you arent gonna notch a full team of 16 jets with 6-8 missiles each.
For Sim its rather obvious the game mode will probably end, as red team is always outnumbered now imagine being outnumbered and your only solution is to notch but when you notch you are going in the direction of another enemy who you have to notch again [you dont have the T/W and energy retention to pull that off. This will lead to nobody wanting to play sim anymore.
Made a spreadsheet for this. Basically, if you want to have the same methodical, slow gameplay you see in WW2/early cold war sim, maps would have to be 500x500mi big at LEAST. I hate multipathing when it comes to 1-4v1-4 fights but I can easily see how its removal would make “critical mass” sim lobbies feel like getting your fingernails pulled out with pliers. I think larger maps with more shit to do in them would be cool but I also dont think a lot of sim players would want to fly 20-30min in their F-16C to lob a few AMRAAMs at some MiG-23s, top tier sim players dont have the patience of low tier sim players so we’re kinda in a funk regarding what to do, although i do think sim should be less accessible in general so the sim community can represent more distinct wants for their respective game mode
What im hearing is, instead of adapting to use all 128 of the kilometers we need to tailor to the same 5 areas of each map and have massive gaps in capability resulting in what is already a mass spawn killing fest. It takes like 3 minutes to get to the end of the map when youre mindlessly locked onto one guy and overfly the entire map to get within ten miles because you know launching any farther he could just pitch down 200m and be completely safe, waste a missile and your SL, and make anything that isnt long range IR obsolete because theyre just garbage by [in game] design due to being radar and susceptible to that in the first place.
Agree! But what do u think about missile time before launch 💀💀💀
as a blue player I can confirm I only found out about IFF a couple weeks ago
I 100% agree that these are extremely real and valid issues that could result from lowering multipathing. But the good thing is the problem area's which would result are at least solvable with some other solutions which would limit the effectiveness of spawn camping. And the annoying passive gameplay that often arises in other modern sims is going to be naturally much les of a concern purely due to how WT is set up, with the competitive style game modes and economy which forces people to get rewards to service their sl balance and rp grind. Due to this people will inevitably actively engage and contest the objectives, try to win and prosecute kills after bvr into close range fights. Passive gameplay abusing stuff like proper air defenses is unlikely to happen enmass, as it wont generate any meaningful rewards at all, with extremely low PK max range missile shots and entirely forfeiting all objectives to the enemy - resulting in a guaranteed lost match. The real big problem imo - completely disregarding the whole MP realism issue - is we are entering a time, starting this patch - where radar missiles themselves are going to be so potent and manoeuvrable at close range that they will start to massively impact all close range fights - wayyyy more then current radar missiles ever have.
With the current fox3's coming, even non-thrust vectoring variants are entirely capable of doing a complete 180 after launch, maintain track of the target through INS and have enough energy still to catch and kill them - throw in their HMD with full fire and forget capability up to 20km and everyone is going to be flinging them off at every available target they see just the same as fox2's. Changes to multipathing will both require and allow people to spend these potent missiles at range where they are much more easily delt with, and use them to keep their opponents at bay. In tern allowing for overall less restricted close range engagements once they are spent. In contrast, without any MP changes it provides people the opportunity to push without consequence headlong into the enemy and force combat inside their fox3 MAR, all the while retaining their full load of fox3's which (especially in groups) would create such a threat that it enforces a total and strict adherence to the 100m threshold on anyone in the vicinity. And while that's easy to do coming into the merge and at bvr ranges, actually maintaining flight within such a tiny altitude bracket is going to be practically impossible while also dogfighting and dodging all the IR's at the same time. With whoever accidentally climbs outside of this instantly having multiple fox3's incoming and getting slammed out of the air in short order.
That style of gameplay which would result is going to be completely hellish and about as toxic as anything else foreseeable, definitely worse than any gameplay issues we've delt with up until now. The worst part is, its unfortunately going to be the inevitable result which cant be avoided if multipathing is left as a Band-Aid solution while stronger and stronger radar missiles continue to get added to the game. And while naturally such a circumstance is going to be way more likely to happen in air rb, where large scale 16v16 group furballs arise all the time, a similar story on a smaller scale will inevitably still happen in sim. So I absolutely agree that without any other changes reduction in multipathing could result in some really bad scenario's - but, personally i think at most they would be as bad those which would result without MP changes, and at least it allows for a future with actual healthy gameplay so long as the devs keep developing the game as needed.
Thats my take on the whole issue so far, at least as it relates to potential gameplay problems.
I can't understand your viewpoint of this issue and I do agree with it I will say that the best solution is four gayjin to increase the Map sizes and add better spaa around airfields while reducing multipathing to 40 meters above the ground
They can do it as they did with BR - one day MP on, another - off (by off I mean reduced to the state when it at least will require some skill to not crash by flying so low cause it is laughable and kinda stupid that a plane that carries 7M’s/27ER’s/Fox-3’s and has 5km altitude advantage actually is at disadvantage compared to the guy in a plane that carries something like Skyflashes and who is flying straight at
This is making the assumption that the player-base adapts in the way that people intend. I can see it going another way...where you do some equally goofy shit like shoot all your R-27ERs at the same target and force a trade.
Or where the missile saturation on the map is such that you run out of countermeasures while defending from a perpetual barrage of missiles.
I've already done some testing on dev server and R27ER is much harder to defeat than any of the new ARH missiles. And if you are in anything other than a Gripen...being defensive against Su-27 is kind of an L because you will probably run out of counter-measures in sim.
Apparently they're just going to leave a whole 100m of multipathing safespace in the game to ''''balance'''' the fox3s. Still early days though, so let's give them a week or so in the live server
ur voice sounds a bit too quiet in compared to the background voice. it gets drowned out by the noise sometimes
I'll Re-Upload with new sound mixing tomorrow. I have giga slow Internet so I upload when I go to bed.
That rude lady kept interrupting him haha
I’m waiting for the same people on the forums who asked to remove multipathing to start whining: “AIM-120/R-77/MICA IS SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DODGE, PLEASE NERF!!!1!”
I feel like the problem could be somewhat solved by reducing multipathing instead of completely removing it. Combined with reduced match sizes and maybe more cover on maps with largely flat terrain everyone would be able to somewhat use the strengh of his aircraft to a certain degree.
I can't believe everyone forgot about the F-14A introduction and why we got exaggerated multipathing in the first place
multipath has occured at ~100m of altitude since the Red Skies update which added Rank VII in the first place
Over-g Over-g Over-g Over-g
15:18 near collision jumpscare
I love top tier sim but you touched all of the problems. I just want the matchmaking to be balanced which is easier said than done because the majority of the player base wants to spam blue team planes. Reducing multi pathing is good but the less skilled players will have no other choice but to learn which is what they should do.
multipathing in real life is much worse than in war thunder, i personally think it should be increased in some areas, like if it were over flat ground
Much worse? What? From later gen fox1 missiles like the aim-7M and aim-7P the effects of multipathing was nearly negated down to 5-30 meters. Not 100 meters that is is in war thunder. And the current fox3s in game are all speculated (we will never truly know unless someone leaks it) is down to 5-10 meters. Multipathing was only ever a problem for early gen radars and early gen PD radars
Freaky Thunder when?
I had no idea what multipathing was until your video lol
You can remove multipathing in sim, sure. You CANNOT do that currently with 16v16 teams in RB that gaijin isn't changing. (No that farce "opt in" settings doesn't count)
One thing I think is important is that we should not REMOVE multipathing, rather make it more realistic. Currently, there is a 100m threshold above the deck that just makes you invulnerable to radar missiles. If multipathing were made dependent on the radar set, the missiles being used, and the engagement conditions (eg. range, direction, etc.) it would be far less reliable and far more dynamic.
The removal of multipathing should not be anyone's goal, rather it should just be developed further as to be more realistic. This includes older missiles suffering from multipathing more than modern ones, and mitigation techniques being implemented in some way to properly model how these missiles react to multipathing's effects.
True but do we even know how reallife missiles deal with multi pathing? From my limited knowledge of weapons guidance, partially turning of sensors and relying on inertial navigation might be real life solutions that "defeats" a real life phenomenon like multipathing radar waves. If that is how its dealt with, then defeatng a FOX3 might be like defeating a sidewinder IRRCM, you would be zigzagging close to the ground to the inirtial guidance would create the miss for you.
@@STGN01 haha it does that even in wt rn, you can only do it in RB effectively cause u get the missile tracking view - but if you break lock with an ER right before the missile hits it will go into INS and be very likely to hit the real target instead of tracking the ghost target into the ground. Unfortunately fox3's do their their own thing so we cant really make them do it too lol. In terms of the current missiles, yeah there is generally enough information out there that we know what the effective altitude engagement envelopes are for most things - and for those that we dont the known metrics for older missiles are so low(like in the single digits) that it doesn't really matter, the newer missile will be either equal to it or better.
Lol the IFF comment
The japanese T2 has been awesome in sim, great in RB, just no rwr or CMs
But even in sim, have another T2 on tail
Will ping myself, say in chat that its me etc
But ppl will lock with acm and fire, even tho they have iff radar, and then blame the radar for saying i tracked as "an enemy" lol
Just as feedback for the video I felt your voice was too quiet compared to the gameplay.
Yeah I messed up the sound mixing.
DISCORD server LINK PLEASE SQUISH
Can you turn the game down next vid? I can hardly hear you
Hi, just a little editing critique, I could barely understand you over the audio. I would suggest for you to turn down the game audio so that people could better understand what you're saying. I have otherwise enjoyed the video so far!
Need whiskey thunder please
My liver is not ready.
I was barely able to understand anything you've said, game audio too high.
Do you use headtracking, controller, or mouse to freelook?
Next time remember to lower the volume of the game in the background!
Anyway, if people want so bad to eliminate MP, then I'd ask for a 6vs6 in maps that are at least 300x300km with multiple spaw locations and no interracial marriage between planes and techtree (on one side only planes from the ussr and the other only planes from western europe or us. No italian mig29, no f16s in the red team, no bs that could mqke the situation even more chaotic)
hi
Idk my real question is why are you soooo bad in the mirage? 😮😮😮
Fuck is that thumbnail
now talk about no HUD!!!!
You didnt balance the audio properly, your game is far too loud in comparison with your voice.
Ytp, the ultimate balance for spawn camping, etc, already exists. . .
*Multipathing at low altitudes!* 😂
And it's not like merges will be forced, with no exception in the forseeable future, as fox1s and 3s will easily get more advanced at close ranges against cms. . . Lmao cope :3
Oh, and if those are too op? Everyone will either have to learn how to effectively pre-flare.
Or die! :D
Realism! 😂