Thanks for watching! Hope you learned a ton. ► Get 50% off Full Time Game Dev during the Black Friday sale: www.fulltimegamedev.com/full-time-game-black-friday ► This video is a response / inspired by @GoingIndie! Be sure to watch: ua-cam.com/video/3ylJCuzsNZc/v-deo.html ► Learn how to become a full time game dev, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-how-to-make-six-figures ► Enroll in my 3D workshop, free!: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-15-minute-3D-game ► Make your game instantly beautiful with my free workbook: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-instant-beauty-color-workbook ► Get my 2D game kit, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-2D-game-kit ► Join my 2D character workshop, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-2d-character-art-workshop ► Wishlist Twisted Tower: store.steampowered.com/app/1575990/Twisted_Tower/ ► Learn how to make money as a UA-camr: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-indie-game-income-workshop
I agree with the idea of the "Trinity hook" but when you say "make sure your hooks are actually hooks" and then follow that up with "Metroid but bugs" etc that is absolutely not the way to make sure that your hooks are hooks. With story, make sure you actually have something to say. Your story needs to have a message even if it isn't on the surface. Bury the message of your game until the second act, the realization of what the point of the story is can be a great turning point for your protagonist, it can even be a twist if that's what you want it to be. With mechanics, follow the fun. If you focus on what makes your game fun that's where you'll find the most success with players. Your game could languish for years with bad sales but if its fun could easily be found by enough people who will prop it up and blast out that it's good. It's not that you shouldn't do your best to market the game, but making sure your game is fun is an easy way to help yourself if your marketing fails to make a dent. With Visuals, make them consistent. It doesn't have to be the most visually impressive game it just needs to look like everything fits together. Now you can obviously get more attention with good visuals so it does pay to find an artist to work with but it is by no means required. THIS is how you make sure your hooks are hooks.
Thank you for expanding on it, I like the trinity hook and the but logic ideas, but they seem like they should be pursued separarely - the trinity hook being something that grabs people's attention first and the but being what grabs their attention second and creates interest - though that can be done in other ways too, but it's always easiest to present to people something they are familiar with already, painted on a new canvas.
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203it really doesn’t. There’s plenty of good and great games that never sold well simply because they released at the wrong time or didn’t market themselves well enough. And there’s plenty games that sell incredibly well while being fairly disliked, but marketed very well. Marketing makes a huge difference
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203Alright, I’ll open a restaurant buried beneath the ocean floor and cover the way I came through. I make pretty good burgers though. I’m expecting the floor to be full, let’s say, two days after open?
never forget. art direction > free assets. making your assets always has more soul because you consider the overall feel and atmosphere of your own game
true but also not that much. You can buy assets and use them in a commercial product. The twist with this tho: ALWAYS Modify them, art direct them with cool shaders and twist. Using them one for one is purely hurting the overall game for sure tho. Publishers will even go as far as dismissing your entry enterely when using recognisable asset packs.
@@MrSandManBringMeADream totally! altho soo much of an art direction and overall feel and moods come from proper lighting + shaders and post process finetuning that yeah it,s why that the asset themselve can most of the time be camouflaged into it
the big caveat though is that you can always change your art. it can be time consuming, but you can complete a game and fully remake its art (mostly) without breaking anything. get something as an asset, dont look for perfect straight away, dont get bogged down with the art because your mechanics do not depend on it
That's silly because there are multiple reasons. If you want to make an indie game to get rich, then by all means. I keep hearing this crap all the time. Most of the guys that left their full time jobs are because they wanted to get rich (let's temper that by saying they wanted to make money doing something they loved and/or wanted to do). Granted if you love what you're doing it will show. Granted that some people will never get rich or even make a living. Sometimes there are reasons for doing something other than just for the "passion" of it.
The opposite can be true as well, you wanna be rich from being an indie developer? so you do your best to be the best indie developer. If you know a bit about business then you can also value your indie game according to its value and so nobody gets cheated.
Appreciate the transparency. The pragmatic take on this is nice to get since we're usually just focused on the game dev dream itself which is ironically why it usually ends up staying a dream.
Great tips Thomas as always! One thing I want to mention is that I've seen so many indie developers in the game developers discord servers/communities where they are advertising their games. I mean yeah that's cool and all but if you think about it that is for sure not enough. Those are developers in the communities they would rather work on their own games than be playing someone else's. I'd suggest finding reddit channels, social media groups and discord channels where you'll find gamers because those are your customers not the devs xd. Be sure those communities allows advertisement. (mobile developers) Give some in-game rewards for sharing and reviewing so that the players markets your game for them. Those are some "Free" marketing strategies. Even when advertising you can tell the players that the first 10 players can get more rewards etc.
Thomas, I really like your channel and your input. Very helpful. But, I would like to point something out. All of the statistics and number and theories are great and all, but there is another thing that i think often plays into the equation: Heart. Some games are made for money, and have hard deadlines; but then there are the ones that are made by those who genuinely just want to build their own worlds and create things, simply because of heart and passion. This is a major part of what sets games like Hollow Knight apart from the rest (and because the guys at team cherry are geniuses ofc). Thanks for the video though. Btw I think you are a guy that truly puts a lot of heart into your work as well, and I understand that a lot of companies and game designers got to get money to live and cant always make their dream game because of these limitations. So no hard feelings anyone. Thank you!
I want to offer some constructive criticism on why some indie games fail to gain traction. It's not my intention to be harsh, but many games simply don't meet the expectations of players and are straight up BAD. While not all pixel art or 2D games are bad, I often find myself questioning the developers' decisions after watching post-mortems of unsuccessful indie games. Many Steam pages appear unprofessional, lacking engaging trailers or featuring bland art direction. Although marketing plays a role in a game's success, it can only amplify the existing qualities of the game itself. In my opinion, developers should focus on polishing their games and presenting them in the best possible light to increase their chances of success. Developers need to start thinking like the player or the person purchasing the game, testing it often and asking is this something a majority of my friends play and would buy or watch someone play
Nothing special about game dev. People start businesses every day. Some succeed, many fail. Same in game dev. It's also not a miracle if you succeed, and not a surprise if you fail.
PLEASE!!!!!! EVERYONE!!!, i am telling this to my past self, BILLION DOLAR WORTH. I really realy wish i knew this years ago." Stop Running after Money before you get good enough, get good first and money will come after you, learn first then make and if you want to make something, please make somthing that you can confidently make without entirely relaying on assets, honestly tell me what is your power point, if you don't make games or it failed, for what people are gonna hire you in game development even if your are good at something go and look for the job requirements in the field you are simply not good enough" the second is "Growing audience, building a community and selling things is a completly diference art to learn, so start building community as sooon as possible." " try everything as soon as possible in order to know what you actually can or can't do"
I support the point get good enough first...am yet to publish my game am always learning and always questioning myself what the heck have I been doing this whole time and yet I still don't rush it still learning and now in the intermediate level of game dev🙂
Just discovered your channel now. Amazing content with a fast enough pace to not waste my time but still very informative, illustrative, fun and concise. Thanks! I think I'm going to watch your whole channel...
Literally every single successful indie game was made with a lot of passion and skill. If you're making a game trying to pander to the market in hopes of making it big, it won't work out. You gotta use your strengths instead. The market shouldn't dictate your game.
i follow the sales of indy games, peculiar games seem to do well lately. the Gnorp Apologue did very well in sales so far. There are too many games coming out from each genre now in the indy game world, ppl gotta start gettin really creative or just make a banger game. like Bo Path of the Teal Lotus is coming soon, that one is going to do well. .. . or just have the cutest character, music and gameplay. it's not easy it seems. but another game i could reference. Pico Park, that game sold a ton of copies. it's such a small basic game. but super fun. Not everything has to be crazy graphics to sell, that's what i've noticed.
I work a lot with diverse businesses on a strategic level and my most common question is 'what is the marketing potential of this idea?'. People think I'm silly, often, but everything you do is marketable - even if you change your payment system, operational process, or hire a new intern; and starting with 'how do I market this?' is a very good way to start a long journey as it forces you to think about the real value of the idea and who would care about it, and that helps to guide you on how to go about it. This question, frankly, has also stopped many of my ideas in their tracks because I realise they aren't very marketable (I pretend-play indiedev in my spare time). It is a critical test for me. And by marketing I don't just mean billboards and socials, I mean board meetings, elevator pitches, or just stories you tell people you meet too. I like the trinity hook. I'll be using this. Thanks!
Indie should learn how to sell and market own game, its not easy if your prefer to spent whole time working on computer, interacting for people is a skill and indies should learn it.
The coming winter... You'll see that the more noise AI makes with low effort overload, the higher the demand for handcrafted quality experiences will be.
What should you do if you don’t have any content to show yet? Is it better to wait until you have a polished vertical slice? Or should you try to build a following with unfinished dev footage?
Is it better to get eyes now, or wait until later? If you want to build a game dev following, and you’re working on something, you should ALWAYS have new stuff to talk about because you will ALWAYS be thinking/doing/creating/coding/theorizing/researching/testing/prototyping and this is all content, my friend. Good luck!
I've seen it done successfully both ways, if you can manage YT vids on a consistent basis give it a try. The biggest take-away from the video here is build an audience.
If your a indie dev, creating content is #1 thing. You need money / crowdfunding / attention. Devote the next month to getting 5, 10 even 15 seconds of polished footage.
With this, I fear for my indie game development career, I'm almost done with high school but i fear of what path should I take first. I know that my dream game is going to be last and other small games at the back of my head will come first for a learning experience then maybe some small games succeed or fail or accidentally becomes a masterpiece idk, I'm an anxious person always thinking about the negatives instead positives, a person who takes everything at once instead of one step at a time, and I'm autistic which i feel normal because of a high spectrum but feel not normal enough.
Hello alex. I am a business owner of 11 years now. Not in games, but in another industry. However, the lessons learned and the wins and losses are all pretty much the same. I can tell you that fear is the biggest killer of pretty much anything you want to do. Yes, fear can be used to light the fire, but it will definitely make you question everything you do. Some advice that I would give is this...failure isn't fatal or permanent. Failure can be the greatest teacher of how things work and don't work. It isn't a negative, it's a learning point, if you allow it to be such. You say that you focus on the negatives, well, you can teach yourself to focus on the positives. It takes work and practice every day. Nothing comes without consistent work. I don't know how it is to be on the spectrum, that is not my life, but if these are things that you can do, make it important enough to do them. Life and all it offers are truly yours to conquer if you put yourself to the task. The fact that you have a vision is a big step ahead of a lot of people out there, good for you. Btw, normal is what you make of it, not the peeps around you. Be yourself and go for it!
Alex, you need to ask yourself the hard questions. 1. Am I actually good, or can I be good at making games? 2. Do my ideas work/ are they anything new/ are they revolutionary to the medium/ will other people copy my games once done? If you answered yes then go full fledge into gaming. You can have another thing as a side to make you money in the meantime not as a fall back. Go forth full swing and attack it from all sides. Get real autistic about it. Im a high functioner myself, so I know how we can get. Get real into it. Get obsessed. Make the small games for income and experience like you said, and always push forward on that dream game. I am 4 years into it. Coming up on my 5th and things are finally moving. You can do it, if you really want to. Its not a career, its a passion. Its not a product, its art. You make money, but it doesn't make you. Also, you can start a business or career in other things and work on your games too. That way, you make the games and make something else for yourself as well. Never hurts.
Marketing is important *but * I think if we are honest without bitterness or being mean, there is not one game that either does look very bad or has bad gameplay/ sound or both which failed (asset flips/AI generated is automatically in this category). Depending on your expectation in my opinion there is not one really well made game which failed ( I'm not talking about the individual effort put in but being good from a neutral standpoint means polished look and gameplay which isn't too one dimensional).
Thanks for the amazing advices, they all make sense! I'm convinced that good marketing, or at least a strategy to make the game known, among an ocean of thousands of games released each month, is key. What I find the hardest is finding what to say/show about the game. It's a skillset that goes beyond gamedev itself, and is common to most digital businesses. An approach that I plan to use for my future game is studying how some content goes viral while others don't, learn the basics of consumer psychology, and keep the communication "in-game" (basically, narrating/showing things through the game, as opposed to creating a video of myself talking about it), as I believe a beginner devblog wouldn't be relevant for the end user to watch.
Best tip: do not use assets from store, do not use templates for game genres, make your own template. Original stuff is recognised and appreciated much more.
@@HybridZoo Yeah but if that same tree is in 50 other games will the impact be as big as unique low poly art tree that can be made in few hours with little skill?
Human interference is screwing with AI, slowing down AI development immensely. AI is great to learn, but anyone making a game using AI will tell you its not where people think it is. You still need to do a ton of work and the fastest way I've seen people make games is by spending tons of money on addons to speed up their workflows or outright buying their assets. Buying game templates from the asset store to kickstart the journey, yes its getting cheaper but I don't believe its getting easier.
marketing your indie game is the top 1 priority every indie dev MUST consider, along with thomas's hook, i agree, also i feel like the industry is shifting more to indie games because through out the 15 years, gamers got bored from the AAA Games thats been released and milked out over and over again with a minimum creativity.
In general, even a mid AAA game blows 99.999% of indie browser games out of the water and I've played a lot of them. There's a reason they are free though and paid indie games are better.
I understand the concept of a Trinity Hook (you’ve pounded that into my head) but it’s still hard to come up with a good one. Sometimes I wonder if my game has one but I don’t know what it is.
I wish more people cared about the game I made. It's better than all the competition of its absolutely minuscule niche, but gets orders of magnitude less views and profit because barely anyone knows of its existence.
Then bring it to the light man! Make gameplays, insta reels, youtube shorts, fb videos. Be sure to use SEO (search engine optimization) and stuff. Ask chatGPT to write catchy description and great hashtags to make it stand out. If you're gameplay will be recognized people will try to find your game man!
thanks You always motivated me with ya last words haha "Hey i think you can do that to" "Hey but you dont need realy a devolper you can do it by you own" 😁
my take after talking to a bunch of people is that the layoff are not a sign of scale back or industry decline but rather a concerted effort by syndicalised mega corporations that 1: overspeculated with the tax cuts, government funding and increased revenue of the pandemic 2: now flood the market with talent to create a buyers market and hire if not the same people the same positions back but cheaper 3: drop employees temporarily to boost their profit and make shareholders happy AI almost certainly plays a role in this too, but I suspect maybe naively hope that people will soon enough recognise the work that comes out of it for the slop it really is. the people in management who believe chat gpt will ever write a coherent, meaningful or interesting story are kidding themselves. The market is constantly growing, its the middlesegment that is swallowed up by the large conglomerates, cant have anyone grow large enough to threaten them. But games with small teams are doing better than ever before, at least thats what the data suggests. if you disagree, id be genuinely interested in why and what your take is dear reader. have a nice one.
I'm honestly considering quitting game dev and I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing or not by doing so. In 2022 I finished my uni game design course and tried to get into the industry. The next two years were basically spent working on applying for jobs and working on indie games of my own. I went through 14 job interviews being told the same thing "You don't have enough experience" which was ironic because this was for all entry level positions. So that was incredibly difficult to take but what came next was even worse. I'd been working on an indie horror game called Creation Chronicles: Seven Hours which is sort of the best version of a project I'd been working on in uni. After years of dreaming of a game within this series I launched it last year in late November. I never intended it to make it a millionaire but I was hoping it would at least get a bit of attention and find a few fans. That didn't happen. In fact to say this game flopped would be an understatement. I can count the copy's sold on one hand and all of those were from people I already knew. There was no videos made on it, no reviews left on the itch page. I didn't even make enough to pay for the cheap microphone I bought to record the voice acting. After that I've tried to work on other projects. I was eventually able to get a job in IT that was none gaming based. I've not got as much time to work on games anymore and a lot of that motivation I've had to work on my games had really started to fade. I'm in a split mind. I've wanted to make games for years, it a childhood dream but after so long of being rejected I've honestly started to wonder I've really got to consider if it was ever worth becoming a developer.
There’s so good insight here, but I definitely don’t believe that voice acting & music are gonna go by the wayside. A constant thing that I’ve seen is developers essentially leaving audio to last or devaluing it. Yet almost every successful game has had unique, special audio. It’s a 3rd of how the player experiences the game. So just remember that when you advise that it’s going to be generated by software, and be good. Because it’s likely not going to be anything but average.
I mean, yes to a lot of what you're saying, but the wave of AAA employee layoffs is not due to the studios not needing their manpower. The layoff will mean a lot of games not getting released or released with a lot of features cut or at the very least less polished and more buggy. And I'm certain within a year or two, these same companies will hire hundreds of people to fill the empty positions again, and call it "growth", until the cycle repeats.
reminder: hooks dont need to be all that unique and complex, i struggled with finding a mechanical hook for a long time until i realised ive had one this whole time, slide under attacks it doesnt sound complex but it fits the stylish combat im aiming for, however if you were to find a more interesting hook it would be preferable
I honestly never thought about getting much money through my indie game, Made em for free just because I want ppl to play what I liked. I made them cuz I enjoy making them, tho I do get support sometimes from patreon and such but Money was never the main focus. Being a full time, 1 man indie dev was never a stable income ravenue so I wasn't expecting much unless I somehow made it sell billions (cuz its literally free on itch io anyways) So I only did it as a hobby lol.
I have found the fun in the process right away. Coding and game development is one of the trickiest puzzles I've ever attempted and I'm having a blast. IN FACT..... idk what I was thinking, but I got my first batch of haters! :D I coded "pong" from scratch and it works! The accomplishment was shared and... well... let's just say I think I'm doing something right, because the people who I'm leaving in the dust are hating what I'm doing. They want me to stay in the trenches of "avoiding my goals" where they themselves, are trapped. big win. big win.
AI AI AI, please AI can do nothing in game dev, this year and next year, it is the truth, also not in the sooner future, maybe after 5 years, for ChatGPT or any text AI, they are like shit( for me, as an engineer).
If you work very big company or triple A game studios. The best way to avoid getting layoff is stop using pirate game engine that bypass licenses fee. Triple A tried it. Sony, Microsoft, Google, etc. They got all layoff for using pirate engines and free assets. Rockstar uses their own game engine to avoid paying royalty fees. Same as Konami. if you got layoff. Start from the beginning. Erase Pirate Game Engine. Download the original. Start learning th hard way
please dont perpetuate the myth that the layoffs are because of economic hardship. theyre not. its pure corporate greed. Everywhere corporations are firing workers left and right while making record profits. The reason theyre laying off workers en masse is because of god awful corporate decisions to make low quality games and expecting the brand name to rake in money. All of a sudden they made significantly less profits, and needed to "impress" shareholders. So instead of weathering the poor income for a year or two and making higher quality games for long term income, theyve fired a huge number of workers as a way to cut costs and artificially make higher profits, at the expense of long term quality. Corporations do not have economic hardships. They make poor decisions and force workers to pay the price
99% of the indie games are trash. why? everyone can see they are made with bunch of default asset and default game play mechanics from some game engine.
I have multiple ideas; I just need a group of talented people. I am willing to take only 10% of the profits if the project fails and 15% if it is a massive success.
Sometimes it hurts to be real and accept reality, you will suffer if you think everything is rosy and bright, everything have a mix of bright and black days!
I just want to let you know.. On your website its a bit confusing what u get and how it works before u buy anything? Is it just me? Like there should be a little intro in like 1 minute before u buy anything i mean it just says "Full time game dev - buy 1246$." Thats it and u buy it without knowing whats inside?
Why does this chanel have such a hyper fixation on profits? Anyone thinking of making games for the money rather than storytelling or as a passion project are in the wrong field. Lame channel, ignored.
Statistics when it comes to things like this mean nothing. Anyone can download unity for free, put together a game and deploy it on steam. That person will count towards the statistic being so low because what he put out wasn't a “game” it was him fiddling around. That is why you're doing god's work by teaching your audience how to actually build a game as a product for a business, not just getting your code to run without crashing. Which is what many noob devs get stuck doing (I know because it used to be me) That being said, I would like to think that building an audience for your game can be detached from an audience for yourself. I personally have no intention of putting my face out there on UA-cam (ever again) and don't see myself starting my own channel just to ensure my game's survival. I would start a channel dedicated to the game itself, trailers and gameplay and maybe even podcasts but the UA-camr life is not for me.
Follow your passion, even if it's just a tiny flicker of curiosity about a certain mechanic. Then, share it in a way you feel good about. It's really that simple. All these strategies and metrics and such are just ways of trying to get around the feeling that what you want to make, and your ability to make it, isn't good enough. Just keep believing in what makes you excited about game dev and doing it and thr money will come. Your passion is the value people are seeking and would pay for.
Great advise but for a single person developing games is a lot to ask, thats why there is a constant low success rate maybe AI can assist .... will see 🤖
You have invested 150 000 in what? I am confused. Were you buying assets or what? Even with assets how is it possible to spend 150k , i am really confused. Can you explain
I hate the sponsor bit, pushing your own course, and generally asking for likes/wishlist/subscribe every single video. I don't think it's something I can stomach doing.
aaaand use clickbait. I mean I clicked on this video because title said "Why 96% Of Indie Games Make NO MONEY" and you put Hollow Knight on thumbnail so I thought "It can't be true that Hollow knight made no money" and I was right. Hollow Knight was only there to catch my attention
@@folgoll8927 you are right: I wrongly interpreted thumbnail when I clicked on video. But thumbnail is still clickbaity: hollowknight still have very little to do with content of the video
6:07 😂 ,so u intentionally focused more on building audience and being a ginmic for the actual content , sounds VERY FAKE Seems waaaay too vageue Video in nutshell "Make game interesting" "Use different ways to make game interesting and have priorities" "Don't experiment new things" That is about it ..except that these rules can be wrong 😂😂😂😂
Thanks for watching! Hope you learned a ton.
► Get 50% off Full Time Game Dev during the Black Friday sale: www.fulltimegamedev.com/full-time-game-black-friday
► This video is a response / inspired by @GoingIndie! Be sure to watch: ua-cam.com/video/3ylJCuzsNZc/v-deo.html
► Learn how to become a full time game dev, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-how-to-make-six-figures
► Enroll in my 3D workshop, free!: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-15-minute-3D-game
► Make your game instantly beautiful with my free workbook: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-instant-beauty-color-workbook
► Get my 2D game kit, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-2D-game-kit
► Join my 2D character workshop, free: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-2d-character-art-workshop
► Wishlist Twisted Tower: store.steampowered.com/app/1575990/Twisted_Tower/
► Learn how to make money as a UA-camr: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-indie-game-income-workshop
This might be off topic but can you use the "but" rule three or four times, like DOOM Eternal but More Violent
ect
I agree with the idea of the "Trinity hook" but when you say "make sure your hooks are actually hooks" and then follow that up with "Metroid but bugs" etc that is absolutely not the way to make sure that your hooks are hooks.
With story, make sure you actually have something to say. Your story needs to have a message even if it isn't on the surface. Bury the message of your game until the second act, the realization of what the point of the story is can be a great turning point for your protagonist, it can even be a twist if that's what you want it to be.
With mechanics, follow the fun. If you focus on what makes your game fun that's where you'll find the most success with players. Your game could languish for years with bad sales but if its fun could easily be found by enough people who will prop it up and blast out that it's good. It's not that you shouldn't do your best to market the game, but making sure your game is fun is an easy way to help yourself if your marketing fails to make a dent.
With Visuals, make them consistent. It doesn't have to be the most visually impressive game it just needs to look like everything fits together. Now you can obviously get more attention with good visuals so it does pay to find an artist to work with but it is by no means required.
THIS is how you make sure your hooks are hooks.
Who's reading this? 💀
@@littledudefromacrossthestr5755People who know how to read
@@Fleepwn cry
Thank you for expanding on it, I like the trinity hook and the but logic ideas, but they seem like they should be pursued separarely - the trinity hook being something that grabs people's attention first and the but being what grabs their attention second and creates interest - though that can be done in other ways too, but it's always easiest to present to people something they are familiar with already, painted on a new canvas.
@@littledudefromacrossthestr5755 lame
The percentage of indie games that fail has remained largely unchanged. Marketing almost matters above the game itself.
A good game sells itself
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203it really doesn’t. There’s plenty of good and great games that never sold well simply because they released at the wrong time or didn’t market themselves well enough. And there’s plenty games that sell incredibly well while being fairly disliked, but marketed very well.
Marketing makes a huge difference
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203Alright, I’ll open a restaurant buried beneath the ocean floor and cover the way I came through. I make pretty good burgers though. I’m expecting the floor to be full, let’s say, two days after open?
yes@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203
@@Darkrender Name some of these great games. Most likely it's a niche that nobody wants to play.
never forget. art direction > free assets.
making your assets always has more soul because you consider the overall feel and atmosphere of your own game
true but also not that much. You can buy assets and use them in a commercial product. The twist with this tho: ALWAYS Modify them, art direct them with cool shaders and twist.
Using them one for one is purely hurting the overall game for sure tho. Publishers will even go as far as dismissing your entry enterely when using recognisable asset packs.
@@2Jackrabbit definitely. yes you can always get help but that certain feeling the overal atmosphere of the game gives is the most important part.
@@MrSandManBringMeADream totally! altho soo much of an art direction and overall feel and moods come from proper lighting + shaders and post process finetuning that yeah it,s why that the asset themselve can most of the time be camouflaged into it
@@2Jackrabbit Couldn't have said it any better myself!
the big caveat though is that you can always change your art. it can be time consuming, but you can complete a game and fully remake its art (mostly) without breaking anything. get something as an asset, dont look for perfect straight away, dont get bogged down with the art because your mechanics do not depend on it
Don't make an indie game to get rich. Make an indie game for the experience, the satisfaction, and to create something you can always call your own.
Indeed
I also think that when I'm homeless, at least I'll have something to brag about among others.
If you make your game with that mentality, you’re much more likely to actually get rich because there was passion behind the project.
That's silly because there are multiple reasons. If you want to make an indie game to get rich, then by all means. I keep hearing this crap all the time. Most of the guys that left their full time jobs are because they wanted to get rich (let's temper that by saying they wanted to make money doing something they loved and/or wanted to do). Granted if you love what you're doing it will show. Granted that some people will never get rich or even make a living. Sometimes there are reasons for doing something other than just for the "passion" of it.
The opposite can be true as well, you wanna be rich from being an indie developer? so you do your best to be the best indie developer. If you know a bit about business then you can also value your indie game according to its value and so nobody gets cheated.
Appreciate the transparency. The pragmatic take on this is nice to get since we're usually just focused on the game dev dream itself which is ironically why it usually ends up staying a dream.
Great tips Thomas as always! One thing I want to mention is that I've seen so many indie developers in the game developers discord servers/communities where they are advertising their games. I mean yeah that's cool and all but if you think about it that is for sure not enough. Those are developers in the communities they would rather work on their own games than be playing someone else's. I'd suggest finding reddit channels, social media groups and discord channels where you'll find gamers because those are your customers not the devs xd. Be sure those communities allows advertisement. (mobile developers) Give some in-game rewards for sharing and reviewing so that the players markets your game for them. Those are some "Free" marketing strategies. Even when advertising you can tell the players that the first 10 players can get more rewards etc.
Thomas, I really like your channel and your input. Very helpful. But, I would like to point something out. All of the statistics and number and theories are great and all, but there is another thing that i think often plays into the equation: Heart. Some games are made for money, and have hard deadlines; but then there are the ones that are made by those who genuinely just want to build their own worlds and create things, simply because of heart and passion. This is a major part of what sets games like Hollow Knight apart from the rest (and because the guys at team cherry are geniuses ofc).
Thanks for the video though. Btw I think you are a guy that truly puts a lot of heart into your work as well, and I understand that a lot of companies and game designers got to get money to live and cant always make their dream game because of these limitations. So no hard feelings anyone. Thank you!
I want to offer some constructive criticism on why some indie games fail to gain traction. It's not my intention to be harsh, but many games simply don't meet the expectations of players and are straight up BAD. While not all pixel art or 2D games are bad, I often find myself questioning the developers' decisions after watching post-mortems of unsuccessful indie games. Many Steam pages appear unprofessional, lacking engaging trailers or featuring bland art direction. Although marketing plays a role in a game's success, it can only amplify the existing qualities of the game itself. In my opinion, developers should focus on polishing their games and presenting them in the best possible light to increase their chances of success.
Developers need to start thinking like the player or the person purchasing the game, testing it often and asking is this something a majority of my friends play and would buy or watch someone play
Presenting the games in the best way is marketing
Nothing special about game dev. People start businesses every day. Some succeed, many fail. Same in game dev. It's also not a miracle if you succeed, and not a surprise if you fail.
PLEASE!!!!!! EVERYONE!!!, i am telling this to my past self, BILLION DOLAR WORTH. I really realy wish i knew this years ago." Stop Running after Money before you get good enough, get good first and money will come after you, learn first then make and if you want to make something, please make somthing that you can confidently make without entirely relaying on assets, honestly tell me what is your power point, if you don't make games or it failed, for what people are gonna hire you in game development even if your are good at something go and look for the job requirements in the field you are simply not good enough" the second is "Growing audience, building a community and selling things is a completly diference art to learn, so start building community as sooon as possible." " try everything as soon as possible in order to know what you actually can or can't do"
I support the point get good enough first...am yet to publish my game am always learning and always questioning myself what the heck have I been doing this whole time and yet I still don't rush it still learning and now in the intermediate level of game dev🙂
Just discovered your channel now. Amazing content with a fast enough pace to not waste my time but still very informative, illustrative, fun and concise. Thanks! I think I'm going to watch your whole channel...
Literally every single successful indie game was made with a lot of passion and skill. If you're making a game trying to pander to the market in hopes of making it big, it won't work out. You gotta use your strengths instead. The market shouldn't dictate your game.
the market does influence your game, its just that you have to know which market you want your game in.
i follow the sales of indy games, peculiar games seem to do well lately. the Gnorp Apologue did very well in sales so far. There are too many games coming out from each genre now in the indy game world, ppl gotta start gettin really creative or just make a banger game. like Bo Path of the Teal Lotus is coming soon, that one is going to do well. .. . or just have the cutest character, music and gameplay. it's not easy it seems. but another game i could reference. Pico Park, that game sold a ton of copies. it's such a small basic game. but super fun. Not everything has to be crazy graphics to sell, that's what i've noticed.
I work a lot with diverse businesses on a strategic level and my most common question is 'what is the marketing potential of this idea?'. People think I'm silly, often, but everything you do is marketable - even if you change your payment system, operational process, or hire a new intern; and starting with 'how do I market this?' is a very good way to start a long journey as it forces you to think about the real value of the idea and who would care about it, and that helps to guide you on how to go about it. This question, frankly, has also stopped many of my ideas in their tracks because I realise they aren't very marketable (I pretend-play indiedev in my spare time). It is a critical test for me. And by marketing I don't just mean billboards and socials, I mean board meetings, elevator pitches, or just stories you tell people you meet too. I like the trinity hook. I'll be using this. Thanks!
Indie should learn how to sell and market own game, its not easy if your prefer to spent whole time working on computer, interacting for people is a skill and indies should learn it.
The coming winter... You'll see that the more noise AI makes with low effort overload, the higher the demand for handcrafted quality experiences will be.
What should you do if you don’t have any content to show yet? Is it better to wait until you have a polished vertical slice? Or should you try to build a following with unfinished dev footage?
Is it better to get eyes now, or wait until later? If you want to build a game dev following, and you’re working on something, you should ALWAYS have new stuff to talk about because you will ALWAYS be thinking/doing/creating/coding/theorizing/researching/testing/prototyping and this is all content, my friend. Good luck!
I've seen it done successfully both ways, if you can manage YT vids on a consistent basis give it a try. The biggest take-away from the video here is build an audience.
Excactly! And you can do this with just your voice and development screens, no need to go full 'Hollywood' production@@dr.jackshephard4733
A lotta people do dev logs (or posting short videos/pictures of progress on social medias). Best of both worlds for that scenario
If your a indie dev, creating content is #1 thing. You need money / crowdfunding / attention. Devote the next month to getting 5, 10 even 15 seconds of polished footage.
With this, I fear for my indie game development career, I'm almost done with high school but i fear of what path should I take first. I know that my dream game is going to be last and other small games at the back of my head will come first for a learning experience then maybe some small games succeed or fail or accidentally becomes a masterpiece idk, I'm an anxious person always thinking about the negatives instead positives, a person who takes everything at once instead of one step at a time, and I'm autistic which i feel normal because of a high spectrum but feel not normal enough.
Hello alex. I am a business owner of 11 years now. Not in games, but in another industry. However, the lessons learned and the wins and losses are all pretty much the same. I can tell you that fear is the biggest killer of pretty much anything you want to do. Yes, fear can be used to light the fire, but it will definitely make you question everything you do. Some advice that I would give is this...failure isn't fatal or permanent. Failure can be the greatest teacher of how things work and don't work. It isn't a negative, it's a learning point, if you allow it to be such. You say that you focus on the negatives, well, you can teach yourself to focus on the positives. It takes work and practice every day. Nothing comes without consistent work. I don't know how it is to be on the spectrum, that is not my life, but if these are things that you can do, make it important enough to do them. Life and all it offers are truly yours to conquer if you put yourself to the task. The fact that you have a vision is a big step ahead of a lot of people out there, good for you. Btw, normal is what you make of it, not the peeps around you. Be yourself and go for it!
yo my advice is do other shit while you're doing game dev. that way theres nothing to fear.
Alex, you need to ask yourself the hard questions.
1. Am I actually good, or can I be good at making games?
2. Do my ideas work/ are they anything new/ are they revolutionary to the medium/ will other people copy my games once done?
If you answered yes then go full fledge into gaming. You can have another thing as a side to make you money in the meantime not as a fall back. Go forth full swing and attack it from all sides. Get real autistic about it. Im a high functioner myself, so I know how we can get. Get real into it. Get obsessed. Make the small games for income and experience like you said, and always push forward on that dream game. I am 4 years into it. Coming up on my 5th and things are finally moving. You can do it, if you really want to. Its not a career, its a passion. Its not a product, its art. You make money, but it doesn't make you.
Also, you can start a business or career in other things and work on your games too. That way, you make the games and make something else for yourself as well. Never hurts.
Marketing is important *but * I think if we are honest without bitterness or being mean, there is not one game that either does look very bad or has bad gameplay/ sound or both which failed (asset flips/AI generated is automatically in this category). Depending on your expectation in my opinion there is not one really well made game which failed ( I'm not talking about the individual effort put in but being good from a neutral standpoint means polished look and gameplay which isn't too one dimensional).
Thanks man i was getting demotivated i needed this ❤❤
Thanks for the amazing advices, they all make sense!
I'm convinced that good marketing, or at least a strategy to make the game known, among an ocean of thousands of games released each month, is key. What I find the hardest is finding what to say/show about the game. It's a skillset that goes beyond gamedev itself, and is common to most digital businesses.
An approach that I plan to use for my future game is studying how some content goes viral while others don't, learn the basics of consumer psychology, and keep the communication "in-game" (basically, narrating/showing things through the game, as opposed to creating a video of myself talking about it), as I believe a beginner devblog wouldn't be relevant for the end user to watch.
Best tip: do not use assets from store, do not use templates for game genres, make your own template. Original stuff is recognised and appreciated much more.
Or learn shaders to transform the look of pre-made assets.
Who says that spending a month making a tree end up creating a better tree than buying a tree from someone else who spent a month on it?
@@HybridZoo Yeah but if that same tree is in 50 other games will the impact be as big as unique low poly art tree that can be made in few hours with little skill?
@@Zihenroy I agree, I avoid games made with the Synty packs because I've already seen so many and it started to become annoying.
@@Zihenroy More polygons = better tree.
Thanks for your advice! 🎉🙏🙏🙏
It really got my marketing juices flowing.
Human interference is screwing with AI, slowing down AI development immensely. AI is great to learn, but anyone making a game using AI will tell you its not where people think it is. You still need to do a ton of work and the fastest way I've seen people make games is by spending tons of money on addons to speed up their workflows or outright buying their assets. Buying game templates from the asset store to kickstart the journey, yes its getting cheaper but I don't believe its getting easier.
It's funny how the video you mentioned was literally above your video in my recommendation section lmao.
marketing your indie game is the top 1 priority every indie dev MUST consider, along with thomas's hook, i agree, also i feel like the industry is shifting more to indie games because through out the 15 years, gamers got bored from the AAA Games thats been released and milked out over and over again with a minimum creativity.
In general, even a mid AAA game blows 99.999% of indie browser games out of the water and I've played a lot of them. There's a reason they are free though and paid indie games are better.
I'd love to see more videos like this that are both professional while also trying to be honest.
I understand the concept of a Trinity Hook (you’ve pounded that into my head) but it’s still hard to come up with a good one. Sometimes I wonder if my game has one but I don’t know what it is.
I wish more people cared about the game I made. It's better than all the competition of its absolutely minuscule niche, but gets orders of magnitude less views and profit because barely anyone knows of its existence.
Then bring it to the light man! Make gameplays, insta reels, youtube shorts, fb videos. Be sure to use SEO (search engine optimization) and stuff. Ask chatGPT to write catchy description and great hashtags to make it stand out. If you're gameplay will be recognized people will try to find your game man!
So burned out on my last few months before launch, what a crazy ride
Subscribed because of your transparency ❤
All I want to do is start developing games as a hobby
I also use the godot game engine because I'll be making more money
@@gamergate2.0andbooks how to get rich ?
thanks
You always motivated me with ya last words haha
"Hey i think you can do that to"
"Hey but you dont need realy a devolper you can do it by you own"
😁
This is my biggest fear
my take after talking to a bunch of people is that the layoff are not a sign of scale back or industry decline but rather a concerted effort by syndicalised mega corporations that
1: overspeculated with the tax cuts, government funding and increased revenue of the pandemic
2: now flood the market with talent to create a buyers market and hire if not the same people the same positions back but cheaper
3: drop employees temporarily to boost their profit and make shareholders happy
AI almost certainly plays a role in this too, but I suspect maybe naively hope that people will soon enough recognise the work that comes out of it for the slop it really is. the people in management who believe chat gpt will ever write a coherent, meaningful or interesting story are kidding themselves. The market is constantly growing, its the middlesegment that is swallowed up by the large conglomerates, cant have anyone grow large enough to threaten them. But games with small teams are doing better than ever before, at least thats what the data suggests.
if you disagree, id be genuinely interested in why and what your take is dear reader. have a nice one.
I'm honestly considering quitting game dev and I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing or not by doing so. In 2022 I finished my uni game design course and tried to get into the industry. The next two years were basically spent working on applying for jobs and working on indie games of my own. I went through 14 job interviews being told the same thing "You don't have enough experience" which was ironic because this was for all entry level positions. So that was incredibly difficult to take but what came next was even worse. I'd been working on an indie horror game called Creation Chronicles: Seven Hours which is sort of the best version of a project I'd been working on in uni. After years of dreaming of a game within this series I launched it last year in late November. I never intended it to make it a millionaire but I was hoping it would at least get a bit of attention and find a few fans. That didn't happen. In fact to say this game flopped would be an understatement. I can count the copy's sold on one hand and all of those were from people I already knew. There was no videos made on it, no reviews left on the itch page. I didn't even make enough to pay for the cheap microphone I bought to record the voice acting. After that I've tried to work on other projects. I was eventually able to get a job in IT that was none gaming based. I've not got as much time to work on games anymore and a lot of that motivation I've had to work on my games had really started to fade. I'm in a split mind. I've wanted to make games for years, it a childhood dream but after so long of being rejected I've honestly started to wonder I've really got to consider if it was ever worth becoming a developer.
yeh development as a job is really competetive man . better as a hobby now
Game development is a passion job, not a job job if you get me.
There’s so good insight here, but I definitely don’t believe that voice acting & music are gonna go by the wayside. A constant thing that I’ve seen is developers essentially leaving audio to last or devaluing it. Yet almost every successful game has had unique, special audio. It’s a 3rd of how the player experiences the game. So just remember that when you advise that it’s going to be generated by software, and be good. Because it’s likely not going to be anything but average.
All of these videos are the same you could find the advice 10 years ago on youtube
I mean, yes to a lot of what you're saying, but the wave of AAA employee layoffs is not due to the studios not needing their manpower. The layoff will mean a lot of games not getting released or released with a lot of features cut or at the very least less polished and more buggy. And I'm certain within a year or two, these same companies will hire hundreds of people to fill the empty positions again, and call it "growth", until the cycle repeats.
reminder: hooks dont need to be all that unique and complex, i struggled with finding a mechanical hook for a long time until i realised ive had one this whole time, slide under attacks
it doesnt sound complex but it fits the stylish combat im aiming for, however if you were to find a more interesting hook it would be preferable
I honestly never thought about getting much money through my indie game, Made em for free just because I want ppl to play what I liked. I made them cuz I enjoy making them, tho I do get support sometimes from patreon and such but Money was never the main focus.
Being a full time, 1 man indie dev was never a stable income ravenue so I wasn't expecting much unless I somehow made it sell billions (cuz its literally free on itch io anyways) So I only did it as a hobby lol.
I have found the fun in the process right away. Coding and game development is one of the trickiest puzzles I've ever attempted and I'm having a blast.
IN FACT.....
idk what I was thinking, but I got my first batch of haters! :D
I coded "pong" from scratch and it works! The accomplishment was shared and... well... let's just say I think I'm doing something right, because the people who I'm leaving in the dust are hating what I'm doing. They want me to stay in the trenches of "avoiding my goals" where they themselves, are trapped.
big win. big win.
100% agree Thomas, your audience is the new currency in todays market
i appreciate the honesty thank you
Good video, Thomas!
My dream goal would be selling enough until to bring home 70k a game so that's 2 years of income so time for the next small gam3s
AI AI AI, please AI can do nothing in game dev, this year and next year, it is the truth, also not in the sooner future, maybe after 5 years, for ChatGPT or any text AI, they are like shit( for me, as an engineer).
ai may be shit, but itll still increase the quantity of games being released
If you work very big company or triple A game studios. The best way to avoid getting layoff is stop using pirate game engine that bypass licenses fee. Triple A tried it. Sony, Microsoft, Google, etc. They got all layoff for using pirate engines and free assets. Rockstar uses their own game engine to avoid paying royalty fees. Same as Konami.
if you got layoff. Start from the beginning. Erase Pirate Game Engine. Download the original. Start learning th hard way
please dont perpetuate the myth that the layoffs are because of economic hardship. theyre not. its pure corporate greed. Everywhere corporations are firing workers left and right while making record profits. The reason theyre laying off workers en masse is because of god awful corporate decisions to make low quality games and expecting the brand name to rake in money. All of a sudden they made significantly less profits, and needed to "impress" shareholders. So instead of weathering the poor income for a year or two and making higher quality games for long term income, theyve fired a huge number of workers as a way to cut costs and artificially make higher profits, at the expense of long term quality.
Corporations do not have economic hardships. They make poor decisions and force workers to pay the price
99% of the indie games are trash. why? everyone can see they are made with bunch of default asset and default game play mechanics from some game engine.
I have multiple ideas; I just need a group of talented people.
I am willing to take only 10% of the profits if the project fails and 15% if it is a massive success.
Jewish? Seems like a shylock move to get people to do the work for you.
Why my games don't make money? I didn't implement anything to monetize it.
Can you do an interview with Byte Barrel? I'd like to know how they made "Forgive Me Father."
Sometimes it hurts to be real and accept reality, you will suffer if you think everything is rosy and bright, everything have a mix of bright and black days!
bro this whole channel is gimmicky
Conferences are cool!
I just want to let you know.. On your website its a bit confusing what u get and how it works before u buy anything? Is it just me? Like there should be a little intro in like 1 minute before u buy anything i mean it just says "Full time game dev - buy 1246$." Thats it and u buy it without knowing whats inside?
What percentage of your game sales would you contribute to this youtube channel?
are you paying the art list licence for games, because the base licence does not include games.
Why does this chanel have such a hyper fixation on profits?
Anyone thinking of making games for the money rather than storytelling or as a passion project are in the wrong field.
Lame channel, ignored.
Because we would like to make a living from gamedev. And Thomas leverages that for his profit.
that Twisted Tower bioshoooock how can i track it for buying when u realise it??
its on steam, you can wishlist it there
Statistics when it comes to things like this mean nothing. Anyone can download unity for free, put together a game and deploy it on steam. That person will count towards the statistic being so low because what he put out wasn't a “game” it was him fiddling around.
That is why you're doing god's work by teaching your audience how to actually build a game as a product for a business, not just getting your code to run without crashing. Which is what many noob devs get stuck doing (I know because it used to be me)
That being said, I would like to think that building an audience for your game can be detached from an audience for yourself. I personally have no intention of putting my face out there on UA-cam (ever again) and don't see myself starting my own channel just to ensure my game's survival.
I would start a channel dedicated to the game itself, trailers and gameplay and maybe even podcasts but the UA-camr life is not for me.
You don't need to show your face, just talk about your game while showing what you've made.
how does one withdraw their $$
Follow your passion, even if it's just a tiny flicker of curiosity about a certain mechanic. Then, share it in a way you feel good about.
It's really that simple. All these strategies and metrics and such are just ways of trying to get around the feeling that what you want to make, and your ability to make it, isn't good enough.
Just keep believing in what makes you excited about game dev and doing it and thr money will come. Your passion is the value people are seeking and would pay for.
YES YES YES. Love this video so much!
Great advise but for a single person developing games is a lot to ask, thats why there is a constant low success rate maybe AI can assist .... will see 🤖
Bro ai is everywhere i mean everywhere
Thank you. As always, preety straightforward and informative. May the Lord bless you always.
Why this crap looks like I watched "Brain Power lyrics"? Fucking hell, just put a chart and talk over it, not so hard.
What's the name of the strategy game in 4:43?
Thronefall
Or maybe it's that these current AAA games have lousy trinity hooks
Winter is coming
Because people don't buy them
You have invested 150 000 in what? I am confused. Were you buying assets or what? Even with assets how is it possible to spend 150k , i am really confused. Can you explain
Bro, if games will go full AI Imma quit gaming no cap.
Just let humans do games for humans
I hate the sponsor bit, pushing your own course, and generally asking for likes/wishlist/subscribe every single video. I don't think it's something I can stomach doing.
Too many sound effects. Makes it harder to focus on what's being said
Yeah , I'd AI could make a whole AAA game it could make many other things , there will be no point of studying or working smth
Noice! Well done Thomas
If Mr beast made a game it make at least a 100 million.
awesome
Little content, a lot of bull**it course promotion.
So you’re teaching people how to be UA-camrs? Cool.
aaaand use clickbait. I mean I clicked on this video because title said "Why 96% Of Indie Games Make NO MONEY" and you put Hollow Knight on thumbnail so I thought "It can't be true that Hollow knight made no money" and I was right. Hollow Knight was only there to catch my attention
There is an arrow pointing to hollow knight saying “you”
He’s implying that the video will help you have the success of hollow knight
@@folgoll8927 you are right: I wrongly interpreted thumbnail when I clicked on video. But thumbnail is still clickbaity: hollowknight still have very little to do with content of the video
@@Daniel_VolumeDownhk is an example of a successful indie game
I saw it yesterday... do you make good paper?
i dont care about the money, i care about this dude railing me ahahahha
WOO! ANOTHER W VID!
6:07 😂 ,so u intentionally focused more on building audience and being a ginmic for the actual content , sounds VERY FAKE
Seems waaaay too vageue
Video in nutshell
"Make game interesting"
"Use different ways to make game interesting and have priorities"
"Don't experiment new things"
That is about it
..except that these rules can be wrong 😂😂😂😂
Jock, your game is trash