A gay friend of mine had a lot of internalized misogyny against gay women and flamboyant gay men. When I questioned him of this his defence was “I’m not attracted to women, why would I care about their rights.” For that reason I chose to cut ties 😔
Drag queens, which is what we call them today, have been recorded in several cultures around the world for millennia. Many great and well know queens came BEFORE RuPaul, paving the way for her. RuPaul did not invent this, she did not invent drag culture, she wasn’t even the first commercially viable or successful queen. Many of you need to learn your drag history and stop assigning RuPaul to some god-like status.
The show is called RU PAUL'S DRAG RACE. Not Carmen Carerra's Drag Race. Ru can make whatever rules he wants for his show. Go make your own show if you don't like it.
Tia there are so many factual errors in your comment that I can’t even begin - go away. No one wants you here. You will never be wanted, respected, or accepted in these spaces unless you educate yourself and learn. Until that moment, you are not wanted here. You will not be listened to here. You are not powerful here. Go away.
Also, to the rant at the end: you don't have to be heteronormative to object to hypersexuality. Don't tell me I have to be a certain way because I'm gay, so also don't tell me to shout it from the rooftops and start dancing on a float.
On the go off: he didn't really answer Carmens question. Yeah I think we should have pride in our sexuality, BUT, a lot of us have kids now, and a lot of kids know that they are gay and part of the community. Why should kids be alienated from an adult gay community- they want to be with us but can't because we choose to be explicitly, aggressively and overtly sexual? Why can't we make steps to become more inclusive of a wider community? Thanks for the content, subscribed, excited for yall to read and answer comments
It did seem like Phillip (P.) ignored or glossed over Carmen's points when they didn't agree with where she was coming from (more than once) instead of actually talking about them? Overall the segment feels too short, I'd love to see an extra 10 minutes to actually address things properly!
Here in Toronto pride parade is over the course of two days . The first day is a more family oriented one, much more kid friendly and inclusive and the second day is like ur average pride, where it is more overtly sexually explicit etc . So from what i know it’s a weekend affair, and this way everyone from all ages gets to enjoy . I feel like this kind of model is probably the best solution, as it allows a way for younger audiences to be involved (as well as anyone else who doesn’t necessarily wanna see naked people etc) and yet the other day allows people in the community to celebrate in the way they choose .
Carmen is the sweetest lil thing. She was getting horrible comments saying that because she can't get pregnant, she's not a 'real woman'. Disgusting thing to say. I was born biologically female and identity as such, but I was also born unable to conceive. I messaged her to tell her so, and she actually replied within 10 mins. She's so down to earth and warm and kind, I almost passed out ha! She's very obviously a stunningly beautiful woman, but I don't think enough people realize how stunningly beautiful she is on the inside, too.
Honestly, I'm not surprised about RuPaul comments. I'm aware he's said pretty transphobic, misogynistic and even antiblack stuff in the past. I don't think he's ever going to change because a lot of people have called him out and he simply dismisses criticism. Now lets talk about happy things. You're all so intelligent, eloquent and lovely people. Love you :) Edit: There are cis women and trans women who perform as drag queens, RuPaul should know that. I think he also forgets drag kings exist...
And why should he change ? This is his life, his show, his money, his fame, his everything, why should he change to please a little nobody like you or an entire community of nobodies ! Don't be ridiculous.
@@kachi2782 I’m trans but I completely agree, that’s why cancel culture is stupid!!!! Like you can “criticize” him all you want but he still has a successful TV show, career, and a huge fan base!!!
I want to clear up something and play devils advocate because sometimes I fee like we listen to respond and not listen to hear what people are saying. Ru was not extremely famous or privileged and doesn't come from money. Also Ru is not only a gay man and a drag queen but also a black man. He fought the good fight and brought visibility to many causes and gave a platform to people who's voices usually go mute wither that was his intention or not. Also Ru never said that he was speaking for all trans people but was talking about and extremely hard competition that he created and the people he chooses to have run are the contestants he puts on. Pepperment, Gia, Giggly, and Carmen have benefited from an experience he has created. Lastly yes drag queens work with both sexes and in between including trans women who are WOMEN. Yes it gives you an added bonus on his show when you don't have to tuck or pad or sculpt or create as much of an illusion when the other contestants who are being constantly criticized for all of the above. Yes queens have had fillers and injections, but they still identify as men and have not taken hormones. Just want to say you don't have to like Ru but you don't have to take away the legacy she has worked so hard to create. You shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you.
dinateller I watched Carmen's season on drag race, and she should be lucky she made it that far in the competition. She was a beauty queen instead of a drag queen, having no showmanship and resting on the fact that she most resembled a woman. I think she's still holding a grudge against Drag Race, feeling she wasn't treated fairly, hence why she's appearing on this panel.
"bite the hand that feeds you?" Ru doesn't feed life into trans people. He's a cis with a TV show & legacy built around it & related ventures. He is not a gatekeeper for who is trans & who isn't. Also how long did we in the community beg him to stop using the Tr***y slur? years or decades? It's a joke to him since success has made him entitled
Houston Its a sad fact, but your right, and its getting more like that in the way people create unhealthy bubbles on the internet. Too many talking, not enough actually listening.
I'm 16 and gay and I have lots of gay and trans friends and I am terrified of the idea of going to a pride event. I am definitely of the mindset that we should be as vocal and visible as we want about who we are, especially at pride events, but I really wish there were spaces for teens to get that same treatment without the sexual aspect of it, you know? I'm all for queer adults having that but I wish we could limit it to adults spaces like bars and clubs and shows, while things like parades in the middle of the day are more accessible and safe for people of all ages
I agreed with Carmen and Karamo at the end... And the annoying white host 1. Interrrupted Carmen to re-instate his own opinion and 2. Completely ignored her question (How can we create a pride event that is potentially less hypersexualized and appropriate for children without losing the purpose of pride?) and instead just trampled all over her opposition. White gays smh
Danielle Asbury not white, just virtue signalling gays, he himself had trouble with his tongue by throwing "cis heteronormative straight conformitivity whatever..." lmao i hate those ones
He didn’t answer Carmen’s question. She was asking about youth and he said it should make more room for trans people? What? That wasn’t even the question.
I’m a White gay man and I’m excited to check out that column; POC often feel pressured not to say stuff to us in person that NEEDS to be said. Thanks for taking the time tbh!
Nick C I have to disagree with you, many poc these days are doing not much more THAN saying what exactly is on their minds. Matter of fact, it seems to be part of their resumes. The color divide is truly getting old.
Nick C So your a white boy speaking for what POC think and feel? Take a step back and re-read what you posted as it makes me feel very awkward as a "white gay man". Can we just drop the labels please, its those that divide.
wordscontrolminds Universalist rhetoric like that erases the struggles and oppression of minorities. Labels exist, and pretending they don’t is, by definition, erasure of history and identity.
Ru is not transphobic. Its a competition impersonating a woman. A trans woman is a woman to me so has an upper hand competition when trying to impersonate 🤷♂️
Katrina Sockett mmm no seems white to me. But I might be wrong. Still don’t like him. I don’t mind the others but he has this I’m better than you aura about him, snobbish. He seems like the kind of person who would snap at you and spew political correctness at you (were an ordinary person would just teach and correct you)for an honest simple mistake.
Drag Queen - a man who dresses up in women's clothes, typically for the purposes of entertainment. It's called "RuPaul's Drag Race"... it's RuPaul's show, it's RuPaul's game, it's RuPaul's rules... if you don't like it, find a new platform and do your thing.
I just feel like I agree with koramo or whatever his name is from queee eye on the dating app thing. But I feel like that in the Hetero world as well in respective to the dating apps. Gay men are over sexualize and I agree that “dating” apps perpetuate that over sexualization of gay men. The over sexualization of gay men is something that I personally is hurting the gay community and we need to be more aware of that in my opinion. But I respect his opinion I suppose.
RU Didnt say Trans Women cannot or should not do drag, He understands the history of Drag and all of that, He just said for HIS show HIS show he doesn't want to include them, I don't think he's policing drag but he is policing the show a show which he created... I'm not saying this is Right but it is his right
Jettsetgirl G probably because cis men or anyone assigned male at birth who does not choose to transition will not be able to be as feminine with trans who have gotten gender surgery and hormones. Can you imagine being a drag queen trying to be proud of making yourself breasts out of your flat chest, tape, props, and makeup, to see you have to compete against a woman with actual breasts. it doesnt seem fair to allow every gender to compete in what used to be a celebration of femininity in people who dont identify as female... and if I hpw to solve that problem because excluding people is not nice either. Maybe there should be dofferent categories like sports. I just blame this on the mystery of gender, it never makes sense to me
Morgan B and excluding women from an art that is specifically about women is kinda stupid, don't you think? I mean, some cis men are naturally more feminine looking than others, are we gonna ban them too? "If you don't have to shave you can't be on the show" please.
As a transwoman I get that it's girls can be performers but we are not drag Queens. This video was so difficult to listen to. If you want to be seen as a man dressing up as a woman then go on drag race but if you want to live your life as a woman then you shouldn't be aloud on the show. It's not excluding people. There has to be boundaries at the end of the day this is a drag show. If trans women want to compete in a competition then go on a trans competition. I don't get why I seem to be the only trans woman who gets this
Because other trans women (like myself) also participate in drag. A trans woman is what I AM, drag is what I DO. Drag has never and will never be excluded to solely male participation outside of mainstream culture. End of story.
DrewAshlynMua Thank you for this. I am I white cis male but I know of trans people who want their gender to be taken seriously rather than a joke/performance like drag.
They didn’t really get into the nitty gritty of trans women in drag. I think the real issue is where is the line drawn for who is considered a drag queen? Can everyone no matter their gender/sex be a drag queen? If we include trans women in drag but not cis women, is that transphobic because we’re creating a difference between trans and cis women? Wish they would’ve gotten into these questions more their analysis was kinda flat. Personally I have no interest in seeing cis women be drag queens.
I feel like these opinions are so misguided and over thought. I'm all about being sensitive to peoples views, but when they ignore facts they lose all credibility.
I'm a gay guy and fan of drag race. Wondering if RuPaul's point is missed/ misconstrued here. There's a version of drag that's very prevalent and is his version and the cornerstone of it truly is what he describes as "treason to a male-dominated society". I think that is the point he's trying to make. When you 're a trans woman doing drag, it's a very different story. Still very valid form of drag, still has things to offer etc. Just not the same thing. For RuPaul's own reasons he's chosen to draw a line there in terms of who's part of the show and who isn't. He has to address the fact that he has made part of the LGBTQ community feel (rightly or wrongly) excluded. However labelling him transphobic based on that, is a big stretch.
Food for thought: If we all agree that trans women are women (which is the concept the LGBT community has spent decades trying to affirm within other communities), then it seems fair to me that trans women be treated like...women. There has never been a bio queen on the show - which is an entirely different conversation - so to me it follows logic to afford trans women the same privileges - and lack thereof - as their cis sisters. I don't necessarily think this is what RuPaul is insinuating in his comments, however I do think this is following logic to its logical end.
trans women and gender non-conforming people literally began the art of drag as a way to express themselves for who they really were. so the fact that rupaul has made the transphobic comments he has in the past and is only now allowing trans women to openly compete is really disheartening. props to women like carmen and peppermint for staying true to themselves and holding the show accountable. also "it loses something when it's not men doing it" so all the nb people who've competed, and in some instances (i.e. jinkx monsoon, violet chachki, sasha velour) won the competition just don't count right? not to mention the fact that drag kings also exist. drag is not and has never been an form exclusive to cis men.
I think that the Phillip Henry's analisis about the privilige that gay men are seeking by "highjacking" the LGBTQA movement is spot on. Gay men have a tendency of trying to insert the diversity of the LGBTQA community into a mainstream establishment that, by definition, does not incorporate the difference at all. For me, the key is to change the whole paradigm of our society.
This discussion is bothering me so much. they are creating controversy where there really is none. Yes we should be inclusive, yes we should be respectful, but that doesn't mean that suddenly we should deny that there are limitations and boundaries to certain definitions.
I think RU's point is that drag is MEN dressed up as women and it's almost like doing transwomen a disservice by recognising them as drag queens on the show, when as I said it's defined as MEN dressing up as women and transwomen are not men, they are women. I think that was RU's point. He's actually helping transwomen, especially by helping straight people seperate the two which essentially would support visibility and inclusiveness. I dunno if I made sense, I was writing this WHILE listening to the video lol.
And I get that transwomen were part of the whole movement originally, however, trans individuals want to be looked at as DIFFERENT than drag queens. Back in the day everyone was fighting for ANY kind of visibility which is why everyone lumped themselves in together (lgbt), however today, most trans individuals want to be seen as women and some don't even want the "T" to be in LGBTQ, so again RU is trying to give them that seperation and not mix them in so that the wider audience (especially straight folks) will identify transwomen as JUST WOMEN. Again, I dunno if that made sense, I was watching the video at the same time haha.
I think his statement makes Ru the opposite of transphobic. He is taking your identities as women seriously by not allowing you to do a show about gay men dressing as women, because you. are. women! You can still perform you can still slay the house down but thats just not what this show was ever intended to be. Drag race does not define drag the performers do.
A reach. Ru references Paris Is Burning a ton of the show, many of the people fromt hat film were trans people who performed as well. Trans people have played an integral part in drag and he knows that. What he said is still transphobic. Suggesting that he was being omnipotent by compassionately excluding them so they can take their identities 'seriousy' is offensive. Allow them to do make their own identities and decide what they want to do as trans people. Clearly many trans women do drag. In fact, I've never been to a drag show where there wasn't at least one trans performer, especially seemingly in the south. Furthermore, in the big pageant systems, they don't seem to discriminate between male drag queens and trans contestants. Its not an advantage for them...why would it be on Drag Race where the competition is supposedly more than just dressing like and resembling a woman. "Everyone is born naked and the rest is drag..." Remember that. What he is really afraid of is a drop in ratings and he likely believes middle America watching Vh1 will turn off the tv once trans people become a part of it, it no longer just becomes funny but a serious platform to discuss real issues people face. Give the trans girls a chance to make money and change their lives too.
So just misogyny then rather than transphobia....okay. Ru is obviously just not as 'enlightened' and in tune with his inner self as he tries to let on. his 'inner saboteur' is always just shitting out of his mouth.
Caligula Longhbottom naw girl you're reaching far, he was speaking for his show and not Drag as a whole, learn to prioritize actual issues instead of blowing little things out of proportion edit: besides its a DRAG show, a woman in a dress is not a drag queen
warjikin Trans queens and bioqueens are not just women in dresses... they put on pounds of makeup, they pad, they cinch, they wear extravagant costumes and wigs. Have you ever been to a local drag show? I can guarantee atleast 1/3 of them are trans. Trans women are a staple in the drag community. Most national title holders and piooners were trans women actually.
Oh, do stop. Drag queens, as we call them today, have been recorded in several cultures for millennia. Rupaul came AFTER many great and well known queens. If the youth are unappreciative, then you’re historically illiterate. The sword swings both ways.
The lot of you are being overly sensitive and unreasonable. Nothing Rupaul said here can remotely be considered offensive. He wasn't saying trans women shouldn't be able to do drag - he doesn't presume to have the power to tell people what they can and can't do with their lives. He also doesn't presume to own the art of drag. He was merely stating HIS opinion (of which he is correct btw), that drag (feminine drag, in this case) loses its sense of danger and intrigue once it's not men doing it. With women pretending to be women, it loses that certain subversive element that makes it the novel art form it is. That subversive element is the point of drag, and has always been at it's core. So if we're to believe trans women are women (which of course, they are), it makes his statement that fully transitioned trans women probably shouldn't be allowed to compete on his show, very reasonable.
But it's not about your actual gender, it's about the performance of gender. As someone assigned female at birth, it would be virtually impossible for me to perform femininity that way, for others, it would be easy. For some men, it's easy. It shouldn't be about your gender, it should be about your performance
As a trans woman myself, I dont see what the proble is with RuPauls tweets. Mind you, I dont really like drag. I think that it gets conflated with being trans way too often and its not something that I want to be associated with. That said, I think his tweets are correct. The point of drag is that its men acting like hyper-feminized women. Letting a woman in, be it trans or cis, just takes away from it. Its like, taking away from the whole point of drag.
So much time wasted on abstract claptrap. Just because Ru said one stupid (yes, stupid, but not ill-intended) thing, everybody's got their tuck in a bunch. Go try to solve some real problems for a change. People are getting killed, beaten up, thrown out of their homes, losing jobs etc. etc. etc. for being gay / trans / whatever. That is the problem. A celebrity saying one stupid thing is irrelevant. Stop living your lives in the virtual world of television and try to do something practical. All of this has gotten so meta it's not even funny.
What's the problem? This show is about drag QUEENS, meaning men dressing as women. If you have starting transitioning, you are a woman. If it was a drag race, period, then, yes, women welcome in. However, it has always been implied, especially with "Gentlemen, start your engine and may the best woman win." that this was geared for men doing drag. Again, what's the issue? Edit: Essentially, if you have a trans woman and you're identifying them as a drag queen, is that making a mockery of their transition? I understand about Peppermint. She was not yet identified as being a woman. Her transitioning was known, yes. However, if Carmen was to try to compete now, it would be dumb because she's a woman so she's already a queen
No. That is not how it works. Drag is not just men dressing up as women. Drag is a physical expression of art. You know that drag Kings exist also right? (women dressed as men) Rupaul won't allow drag Kings on his show with no good reason. Also drag doesn't even have to be one gender dressing up as the other for it to be drag. Like I said before it's a physical artistic expression. You could dress up as a character where you can't even tell what gender they are or as an animal. And the slogan of the show doesn't justify rupaul only allowing men dressed as women to compete on the show.
How is thinking critically about things we enjoy seem closed minded? It seem to me that the problem is people who hate any form of discourse about things they like.
Can someone please educate me... Trans women are upset that Rupaul for saying he wouldn't let them (women) compete on his show because they are not gay men, right? But why would they want to go on his that shows where men putting on padding and makeup to pretend to be women and then be judged for how well they accompanied the goal of looking like a woman if you're a woman already? Please know, I am not here to any bad intentions. I just want to understand.
He isn't policing art he is policing what his show is about and who can be on it. Which is within his right. He is not saying trans people can't do drag. Just not on his show.
Ru isn’t transphobic by any means what is happening is that the show is a huge success and people want to use it to have a career so they are making pressure on him that is an ally instead and that’s not cool! It’s all about fame and that’s the true how can people say those things about Ru or even question makes me sad and all for fame. The same way trans turn to Jenner it’s the snake eating it self and it’s sad 😢
I understand all these comments ... but if trans women can do it them why not allow cis-women to try out for the show as well ... competition are competitions for a reason
I totally understand what RuPaul is saying! Perhaps there can be a different word for cis/ trans women doing drag. Although I don't think they shouldn't be included; having a female body & face naturally will diminsh the the art of illusion. I dislike how much backlash RuPaul received; especially disappointed to see it from other iconic drag queens. We should have more respect for the person who was pioneering drag back in the 80's and 90's, literally going through hell so others could shine and feel like a superstar. Being a mother for those who felt rejected by society and their families.
I think the comedian is really off. Rupaul is talking about trans women in the context of the show. He doesn’t disagree with their transition but doesn’t think they can be on the show. I personally feel like it’s unfair for Trans women to do drag because I put them in the same category of women and a woman shouldn’t do drag in a competition
Oi, babies - Ru has been on this planet, doing the work, for decades. He comes from love, and is entitled to make the rules for the show he sweated blood to make happen.
The entire point (originally) of drag, was to make fun of gender expression and gender roles. That men (or males) can dress like "women are supposed to." The point with trans people is that gender is NOT to be made fun of.
Arielle Scarcella - I feel like many are missing that crucial part of this conversation. This show is based around an attitute of irreverence towards gender and NOT taking gender seriously (which clashes with modern liberal identity politics). Even the challenges start with, "GENTLEMEN start your engines and may the best WOMAN win", which is a flippant approach to gender. How does a trans-woman feel about being lumped in with cis gay men and being referred to as a "gentleman" if she takes her gender identity and pronouns ~very seriously~? Should the show restructure itself to the point where it turns into: "People of all genders and agendered people start your engines and may the best hyper-gender win!" Where does it begin and where does it end? And, in said end, does RuPaul's Drag Race even look the same or mean the same thing anymore?
Arielle Scarcella plenty of trans people take the piss out of gender roles and expression. it’s about innate gender identity, not how you express that identity. with trans women, people will sometimes say “why can’t you just be a feminine guy?” and the answer is that they don’t feel like a guy... they might not even feel feminine. they just feel that they are a woman. i’m cis but I know innately that I feel like a woman even though sometimes I might drink whisky or rock a suit with the best of them.
Kalleidoscape - But Peppermint doesn't represent all or even most of the trans community. It is clear that the most vocal trans people take gender VERY seriously. Otherwise, why would we be having national conversations about proper pronouns, IDs, and misgendering? Most trans-women don't want to be lumped in with cis gay men and be called "gentlemen." So back to my original question: Would the show need to completely restructure itself and if so, would it even have the same meaning/power after said changes?
3:23 Well that's exactly what I find very off-putting about the "community". Pigeonholing everyone else and judging their self-image with a holier-than-thou attitude.
I find it interesting that you talk about the older generation and how we perceive things, yet you do not have my generation represented on your panel.
people are way to sensitive, rupaul has a right to believe in his own right to select what is his criteria in his own show and what he believes what "drag" is, he has said in different interviews he respects trans people, even he said it to peppermint on dragrac. Even tho trans people have contributed to drag for many decades and he knows it, it is his show and his definition on drag, if people dont like it then create an space where trans people who want to do drag can do it and leave ru paul do his own thing and have drag artits who share his view on his show, thats it, americans overreact to EVERYTHING!. PS: for the people who still dont know how to read without feeling insulted, i completly respect trans people, they deserve every right to be happy and be their true selves so dont come at me because you dont get the point of my argument calling me transphobic or anything, people need to learn how to really comprehend a text or dialog like rupaul's on that matter before actually getting offended and causing a havoc that makes people create a video like this. Bye.
Okay well i would like to say that rupaul was only talking about the show and not drag in general which these four do not understand.... im not saying i agree with rupaul but these four are not getting the facts straight
daniela rose What's weird is if you watch that documentary about drag in South Beach, Carmen is filmed saying drag is men dressed as women. She's obviously changed her opinion since then (or she just needs the attention).
I can't believe that this is even a discussion. Rupaul isn't transphobic. Ru isn't saying you can't be a trans woman and do drag. He's saying you can't compete on RuPaul's Dragrace and be a trans woman. AND I GET THAT! A Drag Queen is a man dressed up as a hyper-feminized woman or in gender non-conforming clothing. Drag Queens use makeup and padding to manipulate their silhouette, face and hair to look like a woman. Y'all are all up here trying to make it seem like Ru has banned trans from the drag world and that's not the case.
Yeah, but you see the problem is that trans women need to appropriate EVERYTHING. And if you don’t shut up and go along with everything they and their allies want then you’re officially “transphobic.” Now, this uterus bearer, chest-feeder, pregnant person, menstruating person will go sit in the corner and cease to exist so that no trans woman can accuse me of violence. We need to include trans women in everything even if it means excluding biological females, yeah, very inclusive and not misogynistic AT ALL!
Ru was specifically talking about post-op trans women ie. those whose feminine illusion doesn't require as much transformation. If you already have a feminine shape then a) it makes it more difficult to judge against contestants who are biologically male and b) the transformation is less impactful and impressive to a TV show audience.
By mature I mean no one is yelling "kill all cis men" and shit😂 it's not so shoved in my face and I feel like I can actually think about the points they are trying to make instead of cringing the entire time
D G.G. I didn't agree with that guys rant at all, but I'm not mad at it he's allowed to have that opinion, I don't agree with a lot of this stuff actually but I like that they're getting their opinions out in a way that isn't so agressive
Rupaul has helped the trans community more then anyone else. STOP whining. This is why people don’t respect the trans community, they are to sensitive.
look at this comment section delusion convince your self was spoken by a SHE MALE...... thats called a "male drag queen" lol they are so upset because he's treating them like ..... women??? this is there plight
I'll be the only sane person in the comments and say that we need to institutionalize any person that feels the need to cross dress in public without a specific job related reason such as an actor/actress. Also any individual that is or supports transexual mental illness should likewise be institutionalized. No apologies. No hate. Just compassion for our future.
Why the obsession with labels? This kind of knit-picking is unraveling years of slog done by LGBTQ people like myself. We should be forcing change to drop all pro-nouns and labels, not re-enforcing them. If you need a label then you have already succumbed to the straight, binary hegemony. There are far more things worth debating. This to me smacks of Stockholm syndrome. and lacks the humour which is needed to OWN who you are without labels.At the end of the day visibility is about numbers and its a fact that there have always been more gay/lesbian folk than trans, hence the dominance of gay lib. Thats nobodies fault at the end of the day, but it has burst open the door for discussions such as this.
the idea that ppl don’t consider carmen a woman blows my mind? the body, the face, the style, the voice. not that you need all those things to be a woman if you’re amab but it truly highlights how pointless the gate keeping is, esp in drag
I understand people can be upset that women cannot go on drag race, but as you said, Rupaul is not the "gate keeper" for drag, so you shouldn't consider it as "banning" woman from doing drag. RPDR has an age limit, does that mean drag queens under 18 are not valid ? no. RPDR doesn't have drag kings, does that mean their art isn't valid ? no. I don't really agree with not having trans woman on the show, but I don't consider Rupaul transphobic for that reason and respect his choice.
So you're saying that if I go round calling a trans woman a drag queen, 8 won't get any slack for it!? A trans woman is a trans woman, I don't know of any trans females that would be happy if I called them a drag queen! Ru Paul created the show, he already doesn't include contestants from other countries, he has rules about who can be a contestant and who can't. I'm pretty sure that noone would have said anything if he had said cis women/ lesbians couldn't enter the show. A trans woman has an advantage in looking like a female.
Rupauls logic and everyone that agrees with him is equate to saying that s gay male actress should not be allowed to play a gay male role because it's who they are everyday. Drag is a form of art and I don't see many women out with 6 inch eyelashes, glitter eyeshadow and exaggerated make up during their day jobs as secretaries, nurses, social workers, doctors, librarians etc.
Curiosity question. If transwomen are women and is fine for transwomen to do drag are you also saying XX chromosome women are fine to do drag also? Personally for me Im fine with anyone who wants to do drag just curious what you take on this is @EleanorBell
It sounds like for some people, drag is about men or women transforming into the "opposite" gender, whereas for some people drag is about total freedom of gender expression, no matter how you identify. Is the concern then how drag is defined? Does it harm people if there are two differing definitions?
Im so tired of this subject people gay or straight. Need to stop reading way to into the comment. Made by rupaul ... Rupaul stay positive haters gonna hate
I agree with them (drag was started by trans women and is/was not just cis gay men), but they come off as so bitter and sensitive that it's off-putting. Carmen seems dope though.
the go off and carmen’s subsequent questions really were on point with issues that i struggle with to find answers and to hear them being asked so plainly is really refreshing? my immediate thought to answer her question of “is it wrong to want to bring children to pride?/how can we make that happen?” is to have youth pride which happens in seattle where i live. true its not a perfect system and there are some people that can be seen walking completely naked but it is fewer and all performances/drag shows are mostly pg-13 ish in content. im technically still a minor (17) so my friends and i all go to the youth pride and always have a lot of fun in a way that is expressive and not destructive and thats the point of pride isnt it?
I disagree with the host. I completely agree with quamo that the gay community is oversexualized. This culture of hypersexuality permeates into every social and physical interaction gay men have with each other. This has led to an increase in mental health issues. What was supposed to be our liberation has become our prison. Unfortunately, there are a lot of gay men, like the host here who refuses to acknowledge the problems that are plaguing our community.
A gay friend of mine had a lot of internalized misogyny against gay women and flamboyant gay men. When I questioned him of this his defence was “I’m not attracted to women, why would I care about their rights.” For that reason I chose to cut ties 😔
Tiffany Marie WTF, girl, glad you cut ties, he seems horrible.
what the heck kind of logic is that? he seems so dumb lmao props to you for getting away from him though
👏👏👏 yas! Please expose him. Because people out there assume there is equality and respect in the LGBTQ+ community and that'sFAR from the Truth
What rights? Women have all their rights since decades
Collegiate yeah everyone is misandrist there, like being gay doesnt make you part of the "community" in the gay scene everyone is an annoying sjw
Drag queens, which is what we call them today, have been recorded in several cultures around the world for millennia. Many great and well know queens came BEFORE RuPaul, paving the way for her. RuPaul did not invent this, she did not invent drag culture, she wasn’t even the first commercially viable or successful queen. Many of you need to learn your drag history and stop assigning RuPaul to some god-like status.
The origin of the term is uncertain
The show is called RU PAUL'S DRAG RACE. Not Carmen Carerra's Drag Race. Ru can make whatever rules he wants for his show. Go make your own show if you don't like it.
Jacques Peterson ILL SAY IT AGAIN. Carmen would be No where without ru. Period.
If people actually listen, this topic makes sense. All valid arguments!
Short answer: Yes.
Ok and?
@@EjPwned are u ok????
good
Nice, iam too
@@28YRR20UU
Doesn't make sense that you're here. K
Don't like when the presenter shuts down Carmen Carrera at the end - seems ironic given the previous discussion about promoting trans women's voices
Jemima P REEEEEE
omG ur right
@Tia, why are you even here?
Tia, go back to the cave your crawled out of...
Tia there are so many factual errors in your comment that I can’t even begin - go away. No one wants you here. You will never be wanted, respected, or accepted in these spaces unless you educate yourself and learn. Until that moment, you are not wanted here. You will not be listened to here. You are not powerful here. Go away.
Also, to the rant at the end: you don't have to be heteronormative to object to hypersexuality. Don't tell me I have to be a certain way because I'm gay, so also don't tell me to shout it from the rooftops and start dancing on a float.
Absolutely !
more pride, less cops
These types will never figure themselves out and they need to stop projecting on to others.
On the go off: he didn't really answer Carmens question. Yeah I think we should have pride in our sexuality, BUT, a lot of us have kids now, and a lot of kids know that they are gay and part of the community. Why should kids be alienated from an adult gay community- they want to be with us but can't because we choose to be explicitly, aggressively and overtly sexual? Why can't we make steps to become more inclusive of a wider community? Thanks for the content, subscribed, excited for yall to read and answer comments
We didn't have that freedom as children and maybe that's why the whole thing is around mature people, we developed this community like that
It did seem like Phillip (P.) ignored or glossed over Carmen's points when they didn't agree with where she was coming from (more than once) instead of actually talking about them?
Overall the segment feels too short, I'd love to see an extra 10 minutes to actually address things properly!
Here in Toronto pride parade is over the course of two days . The first day is a more family oriented one, much more kid friendly and inclusive and the second day is like ur average pride, where it is more overtly sexually explicit etc . So from what i know it’s a weekend affair, and this way everyone from all ages gets to enjoy . I feel like this kind of model is probably the best solution, as it allows a way for younger audiences to be involved (as well as anyone else who doesn’t necessarily wanna see naked people etc) and yet the other day allows people in the community to celebrate in the way they choose .
Laura Williams I love and agree with your comment that's a great idea
thiefofthursday exactly ! Thanks so much for standing up and commenting!
I am glad to see people like you sharing your views as well.
Carmen is the sweetest lil thing. She was getting horrible comments saying that because she can't get pregnant, she's not a 'real woman'. Disgusting thing to say. I was born biologically female and identity as such, but I was also born unable to conceive.
I messaged her to tell her so, and she actually replied within 10 mins. She's so down to earth and warm and kind, I almost passed out ha!
She's very obviously a stunningly beautiful woman, but I don't think enough people realize how stunningly beautiful she is on the inside, too.
Everybody was born unable to conceive.
bless you. ages later too late, but this perspective and support is needed more than ever… 💔
@@kachi2782 ha! big true.. just like everyone starts “female” in utero…
Honestly, I'm not surprised about RuPaul comments. I'm aware he's said pretty transphobic, misogynistic and even antiblack stuff in the past. I don't think he's ever going to change because a lot of people have called him out and he simply dismisses criticism. Now lets talk about happy things. You're all so intelligent, eloquent and lovely people. Love you :) Edit: There are cis women and trans women who perform as drag queens, RuPaul should know that. I think he also forgets drag kings exist...
And why should he change ? This is his life, his show, his money, his fame, his everything, why should he change to please a little nobody like you or an entire community of nobodies ! Don't be ridiculous.
@@kachi2782 I’m trans but I completely agree, that’s why cancel culture is stupid!!!! Like you can “criticize” him all you want but he still has a successful TV show, career, and a huge fan base!!!
I think that drag should be something anyone can do regardless of gender! even if they are trans or cis
Antisjwbaby Baby exaCTLY!
I disagree.
He didnt say that, stop the strawmans
I think it should be kept within the lgbt community
Drag belongs to everyone because drag si art and art belongs to everyone. Period.
He completely glossed over her question.
I want to clear up something and play devils advocate because sometimes I fee like we listen to respond and not listen to hear what people are saying. Ru was not extremely famous or privileged and doesn't come from money. Also Ru is not only a gay man and a drag queen but also a black man. He fought the good fight and brought visibility to many causes and gave a platform to people who's voices usually go mute wither that was his intention or not. Also Ru never said that he was speaking for all trans people but was talking about and extremely hard competition that he created and the people he chooses to have run are the contestants he puts on. Pepperment, Gia, Giggly, and Carmen have benefited from an experience he has created. Lastly yes drag queens work with both sexes and in between including trans women who are WOMEN. Yes it gives you an added bonus on his show when you don't have to tuck or pad or sculpt or create as much of an illusion when the other contestants who are being constantly criticized for all of the above. Yes queens have had fillers and injections, but they still identify as men and have not taken hormones. Just want to say you don't have to like Ru but you don't have to take away the legacy she has worked so hard to create. You shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you.
dinateller I watched Carmen's season on drag race, and she should be lucky she made it that far in the competition. She was a beauty queen instead of a drag queen, having no showmanship and resting on the fact that she most resembled a woman. I think she's still holding a grudge against Drag Race, feeling she wasn't treated fairly, hence why she's appearing on this panel.
Preach!
I see what you mean.
Treasure White TOTALLY agree
"bite the hand that feeds you?"
Ru doesn't feed life into trans people. He's a cis with a TV show & legacy built around it & related ventures.
He is not a gatekeeper for who is trans & who isn't. Also how long did we in the community beg him to stop using the Tr***y slur? years or decades? It's a joke to him since success has made him entitled
So glad this channel hasn't been infiltrated by trolls yet
Rogelio Caro im here
Right?? I feel like I can let my hair down in the comment section. Love it.
Rogelio Caro spoke too soon...
Sharron from Accounting love your name lol
Houston
Its a sad fact, but your right, and its getting more like that in the way people create unhealthy bubbles on the internet. Too many talking, not enough actually listening.
I 100% agree w everything said here.... drag is not and has never been a cis male only event
Elliott he never said that, this video and trans ex competitors reached all over, strawmaning everything
Just shut up he never said trans people can’t do drag. God your so idiotic.
Yeah exactly. He won't let the women who created the art compete in his version? It's wildly inappropriate.
Edit: not sarcastic
I'm 16 and gay and I have lots of gay and trans friends and I am terrified of the idea of going to a pride event. I am definitely of the mindset that we should be as vocal and visible as we want about who we are, especially at pride events, but I really wish there were spaces for teens to get that same treatment without the sexual aspect of it, you know? I'm all for queer adults having that but I wish we could limit it to adults spaces like bars and clubs and shows, while things like parades in the middle of the day are more accessible and safe for people of all ages
I agreed with Carmen and Karamo at the end... And the annoying white host 1. Interrrupted Carmen to re-instate his own opinion and 2. Completely ignored her question (How can we create a pride event that is potentially less hypersexualized and appropriate for children without losing the purpose of pride?) and instead just trampled all over her opposition. White gays smh
Danielle Asbury not white, just virtue signalling gays, he himself had trouble with his tongue by throwing "cis heteronormative straight conformitivity whatever..." lmao i hate those ones
you're so smart identifying ur shapes! hahaha ... not everyone feels like you do, let it be.
Ok I fail to see how the hosts color has anything to do with this
no, carmen is a trans woman. :)
Racist.
He didn’t answer Carmen’s question. She was asking about youth and he said it should make more room for trans people? What? That wasn’t even the question.
I’m a White gay man and I’m excited to check out that column; POC often feel pressured not to say stuff to us in person that NEEDS to be said. Thanks for taking the time tbh!
Then its their fault for not saying it. Not yours. You arent psychic
Nick C thank you for that
Nick C I have to disagree with you, many poc these days are doing not much more THAN saying what exactly is on their minds. Matter of fact, it seems to be part of their resumes. The color divide is truly getting old.
Nick C
So your a white boy speaking for what POC think and feel? Take a step back and re-read what you posted as it makes me feel very awkward as a "white gay man". Can we just drop the labels please, its those that divide.
wordscontrolminds Universalist rhetoric like that erases the struggles and oppression of minorities. Labels exist, and pretending they don’t is, by definition, erasure of history and identity.
Ru is not transphobic. Its a competition impersonating a woman. A trans woman is a woman to me so has an upper hand competition when trying to impersonate 🤷♂️
The white gay host is so quick to pass judgement and think his opinion is the only valid one. which just devalues so much of what he's saying.
Katrina Sockett mmm no seems white to me. But I might be wrong. Still don’t like him. I don’t mind the others but he has this I’m better than you aura about him, snobbish. He seems like the kind of person who would snap at you and spew political correctness at you (were an ordinary person would just teach and correct you)for an honest simple mistake.
БЛЭСС thats basically "them", virtue signalling the channel
Carmen shut him down so good lmao like how can u not resonate that pride parades r not kid friendly, ugh
Drag Queen - a man who dresses up in women's clothes, typically for the purposes of entertainment. It's called "RuPaul's Drag Race"... it's RuPaul's show, it's RuPaul's game, it's RuPaul's rules... if you don't like it, find a new platform and do your thing.
Women can do drag. Drag kings exist
ida b cool congrats
I just feel like I agree with koramo or whatever his name is from queee eye on the dating app thing. But I feel like that in the Hetero world as well in respective to the dating apps. Gay men are over sexualize and I agree that “dating” apps perpetuate that over sexualization of gay men. The over sexualization of gay men is something that I personally is hurting the gay community and we need to be more aware of that in my opinion. But I respect his opinion I suppose.
Y'all are mad annoying , stop being so sensitive and GROW UP. Without Rupaul NONE of you would exist.
RU Didnt say Trans Women cannot or should not do drag, He understands the history of Drag and all of that, He just said for HIS show HIS show he doesn't want to include them, I don't think he's policing drag but he is policing the show a show which he created... I'm not saying this is Right but it is his right
Jettsetgirl G probably because cis men or anyone assigned male at birth who does not choose to transition will not be able to be as feminine with trans who have gotten gender surgery and hormones. Can you imagine being a drag queen trying to be proud of making yourself breasts out of your flat chest, tape, props, and makeup, to see you have to compete against a woman with actual breasts. it doesnt seem fair to allow every gender to compete in what used to be a celebration of femininity in people who dont identify as female... and if I hpw to solve that problem because excluding people is not nice either. Maybe there should be dofferent categories like sports. I just blame this on the mystery of gender, it never makes sense to me
Morgan B and excluding women from an art that is specifically about women is kinda stupid, don't you think? I mean, some cis men are naturally more feminine looking than others, are we gonna ban them too? "If you don't have to shave you can't be on the show" please.
I wouldn't agree that it is 100% his show. It's a show with his name on it.
As a transwoman I get that it's girls can be performers but we are not drag Queens. This video was so difficult to listen to. If you want to be seen as a man dressing up as a woman then go on drag race but if you want to live your life as a woman then you shouldn't be aloud on the show. It's not excluding people. There has to be boundaries at the end of the day this is a drag show. If trans women want to compete in a competition then go on a trans competition. I don't get why I seem to be the only trans woman who gets this
Because other trans women (like myself) also participate in drag. A trans woman is what I AM, drag is what I DO. Drag has never and will never be excluded to solely male participation outside of mainstream culture. End of story.
DrewAshlynMua Thank you for this. I am I white cis male but I know of trans people who want their gender to be taken seriously rather than a joke/performance like drag.
You're not the only one girl, them is just a channel about virtue signalling and victimization
Quinn Michaels you dont speak for everyone
Cali Mori who lmao
They didn’t really get into the nitty gritty of trans women in drag. I think the real issue is where is the line drawn for who is considered a drag queen? Can everyone no matter their gender/sex be a drag queen? If we include trans women in drag but not cis women, is that transphobic because we’re creating a difference between trans and cis women? Wish they would’ve gotten into these questions more their analysis was kinda flat.
Personally I have no interest in seeing cis women be drag queens.
I feel like these opinions are so misguided and over thought. I'm all about being sensitive to peoples views, but when they ignore facts they lose all credibility.
I'm a gay guy and fan of drag race. Wondering if RuPaul's point is missed/ misconstrued here. There's a version of drag that's very prevalent and is his version and the cornerstone of it truly is what he describes as "treason to a male-dominated society". I think that is the point he's trying to make. When you 're a trans woman doing drag, it's a very different story. Still very valid form of drag, still has things to offer etc. Just not the same thing. For RuPaul's own reasons he's chosen to draw a line there in terms of who's part of the show and who isn't. He has to address the fact that he has made part of the LGBTQ community feel (rightly or wrongly) excluded. However labelling him transphobic based on that, is a big stretch.
Food for thought: If we all agree that trans women are women (which is the concept the LGBT community has spent decades trying to affirm within other communities), then it seems fair to me that trans women be treated like...women. There has never been a bio queen on the show - which is an entirely different conversation - so to me it follows logic to afford trans women the same privileges - and lack thereof - as their cis sisters. I don't necessarily think this is what RuPaul is insinuating in his comments, however I do think this is following logic to its logical end.
trans women and gender non-conforming people literally began the art of drag as a way to express themselves for who they really were. so the fact that rupaul has made the transphobic comments he has in the past and is only now allowing trans women to openly compete is really disheartening. props to women like carmen and peppermint for staying true to themselves and holding the show accountable. also "it loses something when it's not men doing it" so all the nb people who've competed, and in some instances (i.e. jinkx monsoon, violet chachki, sasha velour) won the competition just don't count right? not to mention the fact that drag kings also exist. drag is not and has never been an form exclusive to cis men.
I think that the Phillip Henry's analisis about the privilige that gay men are seeking by "highjacking" the LGBTQA movement is spot on. Gay men have a tendency of trying to insert the diversity of the LGBTQA community into a mainstream establishment that, by definition, does not incorporate the difference at all. For me, the key is to change the whole paradigm of our society.
didn't answer Carmen's question tbh.
This discussion is bothering me so much. they are creating controversy where there really is none. Yes we should be inclusive, yes we should be respectful, but that doesn't mean that suddenly we should deny that there are limitations and boundaries to certain definitions.
the white gayness just jumped out
Rupaul Isnt transphobic. You’re just bitter.
I think RU's point is that drag is MEN dressed up as women and it's almost like doing transwomen a disservice by recognising them as drag queens on the show, when as I said it's defined as MEN dressing up as women and transwomen are not men, they are women. I think that was RU's point. He's actually helping transwomen, especially by helping straight people seperate the two which essentially would support visibility and inclusiveness.
I dunno if I made sense, I was writing this WHILE listening to the video lol.
And I get that transwomen were part of the whole movement originally, however, trans individuals want to be looked at as DIFFERENT than drag queens. Back in the day everyone was fighting for ANY kind of visibility which is why everyone lumped themselves in together (lgbt), however today, most trans individuals want to be seen as women and some don't even want the "T" to be in LGBTQ, so again RU is trying to give them that seperation and not mix them in so that the wider audience (especially straight folks) will identify transwomen as JUST WOMEN.
Again, I dunno if that made sense, I was watching the video at the same time haha.
Thanks for the manexplanation hun 🤣
I think his statement makes Ru the opposite of transphobic. He is taking your identities as women seriously by not allowing you to do a show about gay men dressing as women, because you. are. women! You can still perform you can still slay the house down but thats just not what this show was ever intended to be. Drag race does not define drag the performers do.
A reach. Ru references Paris Is Burning a ton of the show, many of the people fromt hat film were trans people who performed as well. Trans people have played an integral part in drag and he knows that. What he said is still transphobic. Suggesting that he was being omnipotent by compassionately excluding them so they can take their identities 'seriousy' is offensive. Allow them to do make their own identities and decide what they want to do as trans people. Clearly many trans women do drag. In fact, I've never been to a drag show where there wasn't at least one trans performer, especially seemingly in the south. Furthermore, in the big pageant systems, they don't seem to discriminate between male drag queens and trans contestants. Its not an advantage for them...why would it be on Drag Race where the competition is supposedly more than just dressing like and resembling a woman. "Everyone is born naked and the rest is drag..." Remember that. What he is really afraid of is a drop in ratings and he likely believes middle America watching Vh1 will turn off the tv once trans people become a part of it, it no longer just becomes funny but a serious platform to discuss real issues people face. Give the trans girls a chance to make money and change their lives too.
It's the performance enhancing drugs comment that makes his stance clear
No Ru is just saying he doesnt want any women on his show, only gender bending drag queens, nothing fun and exciting about a woman in a dress
So just misogyny then rather than transphobia....okay. Ru is obviously just not as 'enlightened' and in tune with his inner self as he tries to let on. his 'inner saboteur' is always just shitting out of his mouth.
Caligula Longhbottom naw girl you're reaching far, he was speaking for his show and not Drag as a whole, learn to prioritize actual issues instead of blowing little things out of proportion edit: besides its a DRAG show, a woman in a dress is not a drag queen
I still agree with RuPaul’s comments. What is subversive about a woman in a dress? It’s not what I tune into see.
warjikin Trans queens and bioqueens are not just women in dresses... they put on pounds of makeup, they pad, they cinch, they wear extravagant costumes and wigs. Have you ever been to a local drag show? I can guarantee atleast 1/3 of them are trans. Trans women are a staple in the drag community. Most national title holders and piooners were trans women actually.
Exactly!! No one is being transphobic at all
Exactly I agree with you it’s drag race not trans race ppl so damn sensitive now a days
Can gay men have a space that is just ours? Drag is gender bending, if you're expressing as the gender that you identify as, it's not gender bending.
Ru was right they just don’t want him to be so they really didn’t delve into the entire conversation
Rupaul deserves better. You unappreciative young know it alls should bow to Ru for what he's done and CONTINUES to do for the community. Smfh
👏🏼👏🏼
Oh, do stop. Drag queens, as we call them today, have been recorded in several cultures for millennia. Rupaul came AFTER many great and well known queens. If the youth are unappreciative, then you’re historically illiterate. The sword swings both ways.
Thank you Mel S - Finally, some sense amongst all these trigger-happy youngsters.
The lot of you are being overly sensitive and unreasonable. Nothing Rupaul said here can remotely be considered offensive. He wasn't saying trans women shouldn't be able to do drag - he doesn't presume to have the power to tell people what they can and can't do with their lives. He also doesn't presume to own the art of drag. He was merely stating HIS opinion (of which he is correct btw), that drag (feminine drag, in this case) loses its sense of danger and intrigue once it's not men doing it.
With women pretending to be women, it loses that certain subversive element that makes it the novel art form it is. That subversive element is the point of drag, and has always been at it's core. So if we're to believe trans women are women (which of course, they are), it makes his statement that fully transitioned trans women probably shouldn't be allowed to compete on his show, very reasonable.
Amaduality I love your comment!
Exactly
But it's not about your actual gender, it's about the performance of gender. As someone assigned female at birth, it would be virtually impossible for me to perform femininity that way, for others, it would be easy. For some men, it's easy. It shouldn't be about your gender, it should be about your performance
As a trans woman myself, I dont see what the proble is with RuPauls tweets. Mind you, I dont really like drag. I think that it gets conflated with being trans way too often and its not something that I want to be associated with. That said, I think his tweets are correct. The point of drag is that its men acting like hyper-feminized women. Letting a woman in, be it trans or cis, just takes away from it. Its like, taking away from the whole point of drag.
So much time wasted on abstract claptrap. Just because Ru said one stupid (yes, stupid, but not ill-intended) thing, everybody's got their tuck in a bunch. Go try to solve some real problems for a change. People are getting killed, beaten up, thrown out of their homes, losing jobs etc. etc. etc. for being gay / trans / whatever. That is the problem. A celebrity saying one stupid thing is irrelevant. Stop living your lives in the virtual world of television and try to do something practical. All of this has gotten so meta it's not even funny.
Lol you can never please everyone! Always somebody is gonna feel left out ... walking on eggshells all the time! You can always count on the ❄
never looking at rupaul the same again
Way to not even listen to the question she asked at the end.
What's the problem? This show is about drag QUEENS, meaning men dressing as women. If you have starting transitioning, you are a woman. If it was a drag race, period, then, yes, women welcome in. However, it has always been implied, especially with "Gentlemen, start your engine and may the best woman win." that this was geared for men doing drag. Again, what's the issue?
Edit: Essentially, if you have a trans woman and you're identifying them as a drag queen, is that making a mockery of their transition? I understand about Peppermint. She was not yet identified as being a woman. Her transitioning was known, yes. However, if Carmen was to try to compete now, it would be dumb because she's a woman so she's already a queen
No. That is not how it works. Drag is not just men dressing up as women. Drag is a physical expression of art. You know that drag Kings exist also right? (women dressed as men) Rupaul won't allow drag Kings on his show with no good reason. Also drag doesn't even have to be one gender dressing up as the other for it to be drag. Like I said before it's a physical artistic expression. You could dress up as a character where you can't even tell what gender they are or as an animal. And the slogan of the show doesn't justify rupaul only allowing men dressed as women to compete on the show.
Annette Denomatth reread what I said. I especially emphasized QUEENS.
Karamo is right being gay is about being with a man not the love of showing off blatant sex and explicity. We are ppl not our sexualities.
The guys didn't like Carmen agreeing with Karamo...
He didn't even acknowledge the topic at hand, he just went back to trans issues, lol
Our community is getting to close minded we need to stop getting offended by everything people say!
How is thinking critically about things we enjoy seem closed minded? It seem to me that the problem is people who hate any form of discourse about things they like.
Can someone please educate me... Trans women are upset that Rupaul for saying he wouldn't let them (women) compete on his show because they are not gay men, right? But why would they want to go on his that shows where men putting on padding and makeup to pretend to be women and then be judged for how well they accompanied the goal of looking like a woman if you're a woman already? Please know, I am not here to any bad intentions. I just want to understand.
He isn't policing art he is policing what his show is about and who can be on it. Which is within his right. He is not saying trans people can't do drag. Just not on his show.
Ru isn’t transphobic by any means what is happening is that the show is a huge success and people want to use it to have a career so they are making pressure on him that is an ally instead and that’s not cool! It’s all about fame and that’s the true how can people say those things about Ru or even question makes me sad and all for fame. The same way trans turn to Jenner it’s the snake eating it self and it’s sad 😢
I understand all these comments ... but if trans women can do it them why not allow cis-women to try out for the show as well ... competition are competitions for a reason
“Themstory”. That’s an awful term
I think he feels it's for Men and not women or Transwomen. Everything isn't Transphobic quit whining.
Oh he must be. Anyone who says anything you don't agree with is automatically some kind of phobic. 🙄
I am 9 mins in and the takes are so off I cant. You lost me when you called drag a 'safe space'.
You can be a gatekeeper.for a show you created..y'all are angry because he has rules for his show??
I totally understand what RuPaul is saying!
Perhaps there can be a different word for cis/ trans women doing drag. Although I don't think they shouldn't be included; having a female body & face naturally will diminsh the the art of illusion.
I dislike how much backlash RuPaul received; especially disappointed to see it from other iconic drag queens. We should have more respect for the person who was pioneering drag back in the 80's and 90's, literally going through hell so others could shine and feel like a superstar. Being a mother for those who felt rejected by society and their families.
I think the comedian is really off. Rupaul is talking about trans women in the context of the show. He doesn’t disagree with their transition but doesn’t think they can be on the show. I personally feel like it’s unfair for Trans women to do drag because I put them in the same category of women and a woman shouldn’t do drag in a competition
Oi, babies - Ru has been on this planet, doing the work, for decades. He comes from love, and is entitled to make the rules for the show he sweated blood to make happen.
Biologically speaking though trans women aren’t female..
The entire point (originally) of drag, was to make fun of gender expression and gender roles. That men (or males) can dress like "women are supposed to." The point with trans people is that gender is NOT to be made fun of.
Arielle Scarcella - I feel like many are missing that crucial part of this conversation. This show is based around an attitute of irreverence towards gender and NOT taking gender seriously (which clashes with modern liberal identity politics). Even the challenges start with, "GENTLEMEN start your engines and may the best WOMAN win", which is a flippant approach to gender. How does a trans-woman feel about being lumped in with cis gay men and being referred to as a "gentleman" if she takes her gender identity and pronouns ~very seriously~?
Should the show restructure itself to the point where it turns into: "People of all genders and agendered people start your engines and may the best hyper-gender win!" Where does it begin and where does it end? And, in said end, does RuPaul's Drag Race even look the same or mean the same thing anymore?
David Boucard Girl, ask Peppermint. She didn’t seem too bothered. In fact, she almost won.
Arielle Scarcella plenty of trans people take the piss out of gender roles and expression. it’s about innate gender identity, not how you express that identity.
with trans women, people will sometimes say “why can’t you just be a feminine guy?” and the answer is that they don’t feel like a guy... they might not even feel feminine. they just feel that they are a woman.
i’m cis but I know innately that I feel like a woman even though sometimes I might drink whisky or rock a suit with the best of them.
Kalleidoscape - But Peppermint doesn't represent all or even most of the trans community. It is clear that the most vocal trans people take gender VERY seriously. Otherwise, why would we be having national conversations about proper pronouns, IDs, and misgendering? Most trans-women don't want to be lumped in with cis gay men and be called "gentlemen."
So back to my original question: Would the show need to completely restructure itself and if so, would it even have the same meaning/power after said changes?
Arielle Scarcella why you keep giving your opinion about Trans people when nobody is asking for it. Girl, just stop.
hey can we get closed captions? love ur channel!
I did not know that Carmen is trans! when I saw her my jaw dropped, she looks stunning 🙌
Often, that is the point
This is not a compliment.
NO, RuPaul is not transphobic.
3:23 Well that's exactly what I find very off-putting about the "community".
Pigeonholing everyone else and judging their self-image with a holier-than-thou attitude.
The on the left is annoying and too pessimistic.
I find it interesting that you talk about the older generation and how we perceive things, yet you do not have my generation represented on your panel.
i dont know this seems negative to the gay community. too sensitive
Oh my i love this channel already! As a trans woman of color i really appreciate and enjoyed this candid beautiful conversation!
people are way to sensitive, rupaul has a right to believe in his own right to select what is his criteria in his own show and what he believes what "drag" is, he has said in different interviews he respects trans people, even he said it to peppermint on dragrac. Even tho trans people have contributed to drag for many decades and he knows it, it is his show and his definition on drag, if people dont like it then create an space where trans people who want to do drag can do it and leave ru paul do his own thing and have drag artits who share his view on his show, thats it, americans overreact to EVERYTHING!. PS: for the people who still dont know how to read without feeling insulted, i completly respect trans people, they deserve every right to be happy and be their true selves so dont come at me because you dont get the point of my argument calling me transphobic or anything, people need to learn how to really comprehend a text or dialog like rupaul's on that matter before actually getting offended and causing a havoc that makes people create a video like this. Bye.
These gays DO NOT represent me.
Well... then make your own race?
Okay well i would like to say that rupaul was only talking about the show and not drag in general which these four do not understand.... im not saying i agree with rupaul but these four are not getting the facts straight
The cringe is unbearable here
I agree with Ru Paul. I’m not transphobic, neither misogynistic.
No he is not
Drag is THE last thing that should be exclusive!!!🤔🤔😏
Rupauls comments were completely out of line. I agree with everything Carmen said
Antisjwbaby Baby exactly !!
I disagree with you.
Antisjwbaby Baby he didnt say they cant do it lmao he just said "competing" on drag race, go watch Drag U if u wanna see women in drag so bad
daniela rose What's weird is if you watch that documentary about drag in South Beach, Carmen is filmed saying drag is men dressed as women. She's obviously changed her opinion since then (or she just needs the attention).
I can't believe that this is even a discussion. Rupaul isn't transphobic. Ru isn't saying you can't be a trans woman and do drag. He's saying you can't compete on RuPaul's Dragrace and be a trans woman. AND I GET THAT! A Drag Queen is a man dressed up as a hyper-feminized woman or in gender non-conforming clothing. Drag Queens use makeup and padding to manipulate their silhouette, face and hair to look like a woman. Y'all are all up here trying to make it seem like Ru has banned trans from the drag world and that's not the case.
Yeah, because there haven't been any queens that are trans on Drag Race. Have you watched the show? lol
Loui Hernandez Of course I’ve watched the show. What are you talking about?
MessyMyles Carmen Carrera, Jiggly Caliente, and Peppermint are all examples of what the commentor was talking about
Yeah, but you see the problem is that trans women need to appropriate EVERYTHING. And if you don’t shut up and go along with everything they and their allies want then you’re officially “transphobic.” Now, this uterus bearer, chest-feeder, pregnant person, menstruating person will go sit in the corner and cease to exist so that no trans woman can accuse me of violence. We need to include trans women in everything even if it means excluding biological females, yeah, very inclusive and not misogynistic AT ALL!
Ru was specifically talking about post-op trans women ie. those whose feminine illusion doesn't require as much transformation. If you already have a feminine shape then a) it makes it more difficult to judge against contestants who are biologically male and b) the transformation is less impactful and impressive to a TV show audience.
I wish people would learn the difference between gender and sex. It would make the trans conversation a lot more logical.
I'm actually obsessed with this channel. It's so put together and mature and I love it!
Gray Shannon mature? Lmao its tumblr in youtube
By mature I mean no one is yelling "kill all cis men" and shit😂 it's not so shoved in my face and I feel like I can actually think about the points they are trying to make instead of cringing the entire time
D G.G. I didn't agree with that guys rant at all, but I'm not mad at it he's allowed to have that opinion, I don't agree with a lot of this stuff actually but I like that they're getting their opinions out in a way that isn't so agressive
Rupaul has helped the trans community more then anyone else. STOP whining. This is why people don’t respect the trans community, they are to sensitive.
BANCHEE Delusion. Convince yourself.
is this your live motto
I agree so much
Delusion, convince yourself.
look at this comment section delusion convince your self was spoken by a SHE MALE...... thats called a "male drag queen" lol they are so upset because he's treating them like ..... women??? this is there plight
Ru won't alow trans women to do drag even tho it's an ART FORM not only for men.
Carmen is so damn beautiful
No he’s not.
I would have really liked to hear more from Carmen
I'll be the only sane person in the comments and say that we need to institutionalize any person that feels the need to cross dress in public without a specific job related reason such as an actor/actress. Also any individual that is or supports transexual mental illness should likewise be institutionalized.
No apologies. No hate. Just compassion for our future.
Why the obsession with labels? This kind of knit-picking is unraveling years of slog done by LGBTQ people like myself. We should be forcing change to drop all pro-nouns and labels, not re-enforcing them. If you need a label then you have already succumbed to the straight, binary hegemony. There are far more things worth debating. This to me smacks of Stockholm syndrome. and lacks the humour which is needed to OWN who you are without labels.At the end of the day visibility is about numbers and its a fact that there have always been more gay/lesbian folk than trans, hence the dominance of gay lib. Thats nobodies fault at the end of the day, but it has burst open the door for discussions such as this.
the idea that ppl don’t consider carmen a woman blows my mind? the body, the face, the style, the voice. not that you need all those things to be a woman if you’re amab but it truly highlights how pointless the gate keeping is, esp in drag
I understand people can be upset that women cannot go on drag race, but as you said, Rupaul is not the "gate keeper" for drag, so you shouldn't consider it as "banning" woman from doing drag. RPDR has an age limit, does that mean drag queens under 18 are not valid ? no. RPDR doesn't have drag kings, does that mean their art isn't valid ? no. I don't really agree with not having trans woman on the show, but I don't consider Rupaul transphobic for that reason and respect his choice.
So you're saying that if I go round calling a trans woman a drag queen, 8 won't get any slack for it!?
A trans woman is a trans woman, I don't know of any trans females that would be happy if I called them a drag queen!
Ru Paul created the show, he already doesn't include contestants from other countries, he has rules about who can be a contestant and who can't.
I'm pretty sure that noone would have said anything if he had said cis women/ lesbians couldn't enter the show.
A trans woman has an advantage in looking like a female.
Rupauls logic and everyone that agrees with him is equate to saying that s gay male actress should not be allowed to play a gay male role because it's who they are everyday. Drag is a form of art and I don't see many women out with 6 inch eyelashes, glitter eyeshadow and exaggerated make up during their day jobs as secretaries, nurses, social workers, doctors, librarians etc.
Curiosity question. If transwomen are women and is fine for transwomen to do drag are you also saying XX chromosome women are fine to do drag also? Personally for me Im fine with anyone who wants to do drag just curious what you take on this is @EleanorBell
It sounds like for some people, drag is about men or women transforming into the "opposite" gender, whereas for some people drag is about total freedom of gender expression, no matter how you identify. Is the concern then how drag is defined? Does it harm people if there are two differing definitions?
Rupaul had a new song with the word tr*nny used multiple times and even in the title.
Im so tired of this subject people gay or straight. Need to stop reading way to into the comment. Made by rupaul ... Rupaul stay positive haters gonna hate
I agree with them (drag was started by trans women and is/was not just cis gay men), but they come off as so bitter and sensitive that it's off-putting. Carmen seems dope though.
the go off and carmen’s subsequent questions really were on point with issues that i struggle with to find answers and to hear them being asked so plainly is really refreshing? my immediate thought to answer her question of “is it wrong to want to bring children to pride?/how can we make that happen?” is to have youth pride which happens in seattle where i live. true its not a perfect system and there are some people that can be seen walking completely naked but it is fewer and all performances/drag shows are mostly pg-13 ish in content. im technically still a minor (17) so my friends and i all go to the youth pride and always have a lot of fun in a way that is expressive and not destructive and thats the point of pride isnt it?
I disagree with the host. I completely agree with quamo that the gay community is oversexualized. This culture of hypersexuality permeates into every social and physical interaction gay men have with each other. This has led to an increase in mental health issues. What was supposed to be our liberation has become our prison. Unfortunately, there are a lot of gay men, like the host here who refuses to acknowledge the problems that are plaguing our community.