The man who rigged America's election maps
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2019
- The story of the man who gerrymandered America.
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When Republican mapmaker Thomas Hofeller died in 2018, we learned exactly how far Republicans were willing to go to gerrymander political districts - and rig elections to give themselves majorities in statehouses and Congress.
Here's Hofeller's obituary from 2018, before his files were released: www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/ob...
And here's David Daley - one of the leading experts on gerrymandering - writing about Hofeller's files, which show the intent behind the maps he drew: www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...
My colleagues Ella Nilsen and Tara Golshan covered the North Carolina maps being thrown out by state courts: www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...
If you want to read arguably the definitive book on modern gerrymandering, check our Daley's book, Ratf**ked: / ratf-ked
Lastly, here's footage of the maps being redrawn on a livestream - and one Republican state senator getting caught trying to gerrymander more Republicans into his district: johnbisognano/sta...
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Correction at 1:40: Tom Hoffeler didn't make the black-and-white map on the top row. The map was presented by the plaintiffs in a legal challenge to North Carolina's 2017 maps.
so why is this not illegal?
Edgar Pastor how do you make it illegal? Someone has to draw up the districts.
@@edgarpastor2706 becuase the democrats use it
@@0IIIIII I understand someone has to make the maps but should it happen without consequence?
@@natty5861 use what
The hero in this story is his daughter who put democracy before family and turned over his notes.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Even though she knew it'd adversely affect her father's reputation and her family she still did it.
I appreciate that, though I wouldn't recommend any individual to take on the burden of someone else but it's great nevertheless. Because now we can do at least something about it.
@@EL-ISS Well when you know something is wrong, the burden is so much easier. More often than not is it better to say it and do what is right. I know from personal experience
@@Munchausenification well said, I agree with that concept.
I love my parents, I love my children. But if they did anything like this, I would try to bring it out in the open. To me it's not about not loving your parent/child, but about doing what's right
Shes probably neglected by her father she doesnt even care anymore.
The real issue is not that republicans are doing it. It’s that it’s totally legal
^this^ It happens in the UK too but electoral boundaries are ostensibly under the control of a non-partisan authority, aren't changed as often, and the government will try and disguise their meddling and argue that the new boundaries are common-sense. Those long skinny boundaries in America that just happen to group all the majority black areas into a single district are what happens when you don't even feel the need to deny that you're doing it.
It possibly helps that electoral divisions in the UK have to have names, seems a small thing but it makes it easier to conceal gerrymandering when the divisions are just temporary numbered units that have no real relevance to people's lives, and it's more obvious that a constituency has been gerrymandered when it has a name like 'Town A & Town B' where towns A and B are a long way from each other.
For example, look at the map at 3:15 of District 12. Imagine if they had to call it 'North Central Charlotte, Winston-Salem and South Central Greensboro'. It might not stop them doing it but it would make it harder for them to brush it under the carpet if people went to the polls in Charlotte thinking 'how come we're in the same district as central Greensboro while the rest of Charlotte is in a different district?'
@Mason Wright no it doesnt
@Mason Wright boundaries need to be updated to keep up with population changes. It doesn't need to be within the powers of the government to update them.
@Mason Wright politicians need unfair powers to undemocratically keep them in office against the will of the voters? Explain please
Maryland does it in favor of the Democrats
Gerrymandering is really getting out of hand.
I mean, where do we draw the line?
I see what you did there 😂
LOL. A lot of people are saying that algorithms should do it now instead of people. Idk about that either because people make algorithms.
The “For the People Act” would mandate Independent Redistricting comissions for every state. If that gets passed, it would largely solve the problem
lol
Lol
This is essentially why we can't take America serious as a democracy. Good luck with voting today!
Update: Trump is catching up massively...Bless America. Democracy will never be the same!
@@amberlewis012 now Biden is bacc
@@amberlewis012 That didn’t age well
this will end by next month probably
@@amberlewis012 saving this message to tell you that trump won
Hofeller's legacy: His own daughter hates him so much, she publicizes every crooked thing he did an publicly shamed him.
Good job, dad.
Why does Vox hate Republicans so much? They are implying only Republicans do this. Nancy Pelosi and Team will be doing this this time around too...
Sanjit T Because they pioneer it
@@SanjitT Because Republicans crank it up to eleven. They are far, far worse when it comes to undermining the US democracy.
@@SanjitT if 'Democrats do it too' then maybe it's time we fixed it. 2 wrongs don't make a right...
@@SanjitT Because Republicans have been proven to intimidate and suppress voters and to cheat in the past.
Leaving the ruling party to decide who should vote and how democracy should work?
Who thought that was a good idea in the first place?
Rishabh Kumar The ruling party.
Rishabh Kumar George Washington warn us about having political parties.
America, of course. What a joke of a country.
Gerry obviously thought it was a good idea, lol.
The Constitution was written before a party system solidified, and long before the two-party equilibrium estabilished itself. The founders did not envision there being a "ruling party", so they didn't build in checks against abuses that might be made by a ruling party. The founders were smart people, but they couldn't foresee everything that might go wrong,
This is outrageous. How can anyone call this democracy?
Edit: for anyone in the comments saying that it’s not a democracy it is in fact by definition a democracy, and a symbol for democracy in the world.
The US is considered a flawed democracy according to the economists democracy index. I believe the term is better for describing the US.
Full Oxford definition:
‘Democracy: a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.’
Nobody should. Because the United States never has been, is not now, and should never be a democracy. It's a representative republic.
The supposed beacon of democracy for the rest of the world. Also has the prehistoric electoral college system
It’s not a democracy never was, just living with democratic ways as a republic
Maybe because it isn’t a democracy 💀😭
He should be put in jail like all the others dems
Gerrymandering: The Illusion of Democracy
It’s other way around bro .
Democracy is the illusion so gerrymandering !
It's going to be the same results regardless if you vote red or blue dude.
This should be illegal
It is. Just not enforced as much as it should
well it's hard to prevent it tho, because you do have to redraw the districts every 10 years
The best way to enforce it is to get people to draw districts based on the geography not the voters and not change them (ever)
@@jarrod7465 it has to change tho, every decade, the number of districts in a state changes which means u have to redraw it
America should be illegal tbh
I have an idea:
The guy with most votes wins.
Nah, I hear Democrats make it easy for people to vote more than once and allow people who are not suppose to vote...vote. It's very odd that they make a big deal about passing a law that allows people to vote without showing an official identification. Who doesn't have id? I bet even homeless people carry id.
Kenichi Kenuzo if you think illegal immigrants can vote then you've watched too much Fox News
Kenichi Kenuzo not true. Facts don’t care about your feelings!
Funny they never said a thing when Clinton won the electoral votes 20 years ago.
ZergforLoser We’ve always had a debate about how it works,
Both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of this and it’s part of the reason why I hate party politics and side with George Washington think that there should be no political parties. God bless have a good day
What is the For The People Act and which party supports it?
Thanks to Thomas 's daughter for revealing her dad's crimes . God bless her ❤️
Partisan Gerrymandering isn’t Illegal you know
@@thebakedfruit8850 it was literally found illegal in their states constitution but okay
@@kekatte ye true
@@kekattedemocrats banning firearms but the constitution says you can’t, democrats still do it. Playing fire with fire
"Redistricting is like an election in reverse." Wow. He actually said those words on camera.
That's how you know the US is not a democracy.
@@denelson83 we are a constitutional republic. So of course
Kevin beem which is a form of democracy...
@@falloutboisumbish9409 No, that's not true either.
The US is a capitalist dictatorship.
@@denelson83 ok boomer
America really needs a multi party system, where the power afforded the power afforded to each party is decided on a popular vote
👍
Or, end the party system lol it was a bad idea to begin with, people become too tribal too easily, with weird loyalties to parties so much so they never actually judge the candidate and then get mad and call them corrupt
We also have to acknowledge Democrats (which I am one) do this too primarily in Maryland.
True. But this is far more common for republicans.
@@mishaf19 no party is safe from blame here
@@mishaf19 not true, every single party attempts to stay in power and gerrymanders to the extreme
Politically speaking, Gerrymandering is genius.
But it is the worst thing to ever happen to the Constitution of a Government
That's if you define "politically" as something that's not fair and/or something that's corrupt. But in theory politics shouldn't be corrupt, specially in a democratic society. So i would have to disagree that it's genius and say that's it's more "evil genius".
I think gerrymandering is rigging, and it's warped our democracy.
@@user-ti3vp9mt3z It's literally the opposite of what democratic means
The whole political system in America is outdated, asocial and pretty undemocratic. There is no logical explanation for how someone can win an election without receiving the most votes, except "that's how we always used to do it, so let's keep it" That's at least what they say. What they mean is: "We can rig the system to stay in power, so that's good". In America it's always about how you can get the biggest advantage out of any situation, it's never about what's fair or just.
@@fumeinayuza Agree 100%
I commend his estranged daughter bringing this to light, we don’t have to be like our parents.
If you’re estranged from a parent who is dead, it just makes it easier to go against them.
Too bad she didn’t have the guts to do it while he was alive.
@@cwg73160 exactly!
@@cwg73160 to do that, she needed access to his papers which, if they didn't see eye to eye, she wasn't going to get. He must have had a degree of guilt about what he was doing, or he would have shredded the evidence. And, anyway, what has 'guts' got to do with it? Are you saying that she did the wrong thing?
rpbsjy You’re asking if I thought she did the wrong thing? Is that how you took it? Seriously?
And you have it the other way around - If he thought what he was doing was wrong, he would have shredded the evidence.
Yes, I’m glad she brought this info to light but let’s not make her out to be a hero. I’m just saying that it took no courage to steal a dead man’s belongings. She’s not some sort of hero and deserves no commendation.
@@cwg73160 This is likely something that is going to change her relationship to her whole family. nothing happens in a vacuum, so thing like her no longer being welcome at family events or any other amount of inter social repercussions. There is a 3rd option- she didn't know or didn't think it was as bad as it was. Map drawing was this mans job, and I can't see an adult child and her father chatting about his everyday in depth work when they both have lives they've got to be living, so she likely didn't know that the maps were what they were until later on. Also, in a legal sense, you can't steal from a dead person, only the estate holders
Voters: We choose the representatives
Republicans: *UNO reverse*
both parties do this, look at maryland
Republicans and Democrats gerrymander
Not just them
This video is good they leave out the plain fact that the Democrats also do this
Never understood why districts aren’t outlined by county lines.
I live in a state where the county was your districts. It was claimed to be racist and was changed
Some counties are more populated than others.
Same
@@jakep9610 same with stats but all have two senators
well, if it was done by county, then certain officials in congress would have more power than others (one vote from a small county in rural wyoming would have the same power as the one vote that covers all of Seattle and most of its surrounding areas. Not fair to that larger county). redistricting is about balancing the size of voting districts so they contain similar numbers of people.
Why on earth are people in power are allowed to redraw these political maps???
Why would the people in power change the system that led to them winning? It has happened but it is rare. In some states a state supreme court changed it due to there being some provisions in the state constitution that could be relied on. In some states the people could use ballot initiatives to bypass politicians eg. CA, MI to give the power to an independent commission. Without that, CA could still be like that. They used to be badly gerrymandered.
In the 80s, Dems passed a gerrymander. The people overturn it with a ballot initiative. The outgoing governor (Jerry Brown) called an emergency session and passed another one. Republicans and the people opposed it. They sued in state courts but the state supreme court let it pass. The people then vote out some of the justices in retention elections. Next, both Dems and Republicans collude to gerrymander for incumbents. Eventually, the people use a ballot initiative to hand it to an independent commission after an election cycle where none of the many seats changes party. Those aren't perfect but it does have a dramatic effect on the gerrymandering.
@shimmy So you have to adjust the districts to stay in power, right?
@@BernhardWelzel I think they redrew the maps every year to prevent the exact same thing from happening. If too much people live in cities and little in the country side, then depending on the size of the districts, they will either be over-represented, or under-represented. Redrawing district maps was supposed to keep representation equal throughout the state. Emphasis on *was supposed*
Hey, it's because population concentrations in certain areas changes with time, to keep up the spirit of one person one vote, the maps are redrawn to have almost equal population in each district (constituency, as called in india). But there are no clear rules on how to draw this maps because every other place has different circumstances, like different ethnicities, different partisanship, different economic conditions etc. Some people take advantage of the lack of any clear rules for their benefits.
Hope this helps you understand why this happens.
They should just do the split line method
"It used to be that voters picked the politicians, not politicians can pick the voters"
Remember when we thought it was unrealistic for the story's villain to evil monologue?
Seriously, what group was he speaking to and where? I took it as him trying to convince people that this shouldn't be allowed, but he makes money from it...
US was never a democracy and it was never meant to be. It's a constitutional republic.
@@neptunian962 Republic still doesn't mean "the powerful get to do whatever they want." That one is called totalitarianism. Playing with words doesn't solve real problems I'm afraid.
@@faranocks Meh. The differences are minor.
@@neptunian962 We're still a democracy. We just aren't a direct democracy.
I'm actually shocked that those in power have the authority to redraw the election districts. It's a no brainer. Regardless of who is in power (republican or democrat), of course they will redraw it to favour themselves. The question then should be this instead. Why isn't there an independent non-political election commission authority that is responsible for election districts?
the way the constitution is laid out means that the entire redistricting process is decided by each individual state. there are a few states that have independent commissions, but most function on having the state legislature do it or have a special committee chosen by the state legislsture do it. so tldr: the people who got elected via gerrymandering are in charge of regulating redistricting.
I don’t understand why our Country, our people allow such system in our “democracy”?? Thanks to Vox for making such wonderful, informative video!
Maybe because we are not a democracy.
@@JediOfTheRepublic This shouldn't be a part of a Democratic Republic either.
its because the constitution is vage on what redistricting involves (read article 1 section 2) and gives the states full power to manage their own election laws (article 1 section 4). the founders couldnt have predicted gerrymandering to be an issue, so they didnt put in safeguards against it. fixing that would require a constitutional amendment changing the way we do redistricting, which are so incredibly hard to pass and would cause an uproar because it could be accused of taking power away from the states. or we could fix it state-by-state via state legislatures which is equally impossible mostly because the people who got in via gerrymandering arent going to approve legislation to stop gerrymandering. congress cant do much bc its a federalism issue, they cant change the ways individual states run their elections. its a big issue thats gonna require complex solutions and will be an uphill battle to the end.
@khanch.6807 we're a Constitutional Republic. We have democratic elections but we're not a democracy
The biggest issue here is that majority of Americans have no clue this goes on nor would even understand it, nor care
For real. I had no clue about this
@Independent voter They never taught voter districting and ESPECIALLY the concept of Gerrymandering in 8th grade.
The part at @02:01 should elude only the dumbest of voters. What I personally would have liked to see in this video is _why_ this is a thing to begin with.
Why go _and_ stick with a system that can be abused like that instead of just counting the peoples votes? I mean this is pretty much fraud in plain sight? 🤨
I had no idea this existed.
I understand it and am pro gerrymandering
"america is a democracy"
hoffeler: hold my maps!
america isn’t a democracy, it’s a constitutional republic
arcs and a lot of American would punch you and not agree with this. I have no idea why (I’m not even American but they did it to me anyway)
America isn’t a democracy, never has been.
yukitaka oni It’s no surprise, Americans aren’t exactly the smartest people
It never was
This is an obvious flaw in our election process, that needs to change. I'm surprised our founding fathers didn't see this coming. What can we do?
get rid of electoral college
I'm not American or something but, cannot you just draw lines over the parallels and meridians?
It's more fair and equitable for everyone
Easy fix for this problem:
Don’t use congressional districts and just allocate seats by the percentage of votes each party got.
Like Switzerland
You mean they should make it democratic?! That wouldn’t fit the US in its current state
Then people wouldn’t be represented. They would just have someone of the same party. Kinda ruins the point of representatives
In the UK constituencies (districts) are drawn exclusively by the independent electoral commission. I can't imagine trusting either party with this responsibility, much less simply telling them 'do it again' when not once but twice have their efforts been found to have been guilty of electoral corruption.
And yet, in 2015, despite earning 12.6% of the popular vote, UKIP only got 0.2% of the parliamentary seats (1 seat). Similarly, in 2010 the liberal democrats got 8.8% of the seats for 23% of the popular vote, in 2017 - 1.8% seats for 7.4% of the popular vote, in 2019 - 1.7% seats for 11.6% of the popular vote.
The problems with UK's First-past-the-post regional district voting system are practically just as bad as the Electoral College in the USA. I don't trust such a voting system in general, regardless of potential gerrymandering.
Travel Mousazz seas
@@roadent217 yep, here in Canada we have the same electoral system and the same issue. The green party here got 7% of the vote, and 3 seats out of our about 340, while a different party also got 7% of the popular vote, but got 32 seats
@@roadent217 Exactly, gerrymandering is not the problem, it is the symptom of First Past the Post voting.
@@roadent217 In 2005 Blair bearly edged out over the conservatives by 1 or 2 percent. He won by a majority of 70
The real hero here is his daughter. She may have saved the country from a lot of turmoil in the future.
Kevin Ford This is america... uneducated voting and miseducated citizens. Turmoil is our nature
They were not touch for years....she rather found out he was dead on google.....😐
Josh James it's amazing how prophetic these words are now...
"election in reverse" is a very good description of dictatorship
Trump got the full 2020 experience:
1. Got COVID
.
2. Lost his job.
3. Getting evicted from his house.
Why can't we just get rid of gerrymandering and go to popular vote like the rest of the world!!!
Zaxor Von Skyler popular vote doesn’t always represent different communities equally
We still want people to be able to choose their reps. We just want fair districts.
I think very few countries actually have true popular votes.
@@kamisawekchim but votes in election should be equal, doesn't matter to what community you belong: one person = one vote.
Only 3 countries use popular vote
There is a Soviet joke about the party dissolving the electorate and choosing a new one. This guy took it as advice.
That was actually a poem Berthold Brecht wrote, after the east german revolt of 1953.
It's called "the Solution" goes as followed:
After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
Tomitius Tritus
So true
One obvious rule: Do not register as a Republican or Democrat. Register as an Independent.
Done.
This "registering" as a Dem voter or Repuglican voter sounds peculiar to Europeans. You don't register as a particular party voter even if you're a party member in Europe or Australasia, you just register to vote with the Govt electoral commission so you're on the electoral roll come election time, which gets ticked off the list when you vote to keep a check on multiple fraud votes as several booths in the district will have the same rolls (information). What's the point of "voter registration" for Dems or Repuglicans?
As a person from North Carolina's District 12, this is disgusting.
As a non-US Citizen, gerrymandering has always been a confusing concept and i always had no idea why it's still a thing
It also happened in Bavaria in Germany.
Ruven Pinkhasov Britain's problem is more the use of first past the post and too many parties meaning that everyone spoils each other so that a majority of voter don't get what they want. They do have independent boundary commissions which set the boundaries so it's not Gerrymandering approved by the congess/parliament like it is in the US.
It doesn't happen in countries with proportional representation. It is more common in first past the post systems.
Literally, if it weren’t for gerrymandering. The republicans
would never win another election. They’ll fight to the death for it.
@@angelgjr1999 they say Democrats would never would win if there is voter id. Which they fight for the death agaisnt it.
whos jerry and why is there a mandarin
You don't know him, he goes in another school.
@Tammy T its a joke
"Jerry" rigging takes on a hole new meaning!
I don't know you tell me
LOLL
We just gonna pretend that Democrats don’t Gerrymander Maryland Illinois New York Connecticut
except the dems get well over 50% of the vote in those states
Love how you essentially ignore all gerrymandering from Democrats 🤦🏼
Can u give me link if democrats did and court have to call it unconstitutional??
Tom Hoffeler is like that game hacker who keeps killing you and spawn killing but then logs out but still leaves a impact
Kyle & Chung Rainbow six 😂
It's not surprising the US has the lowest voter turnout among all developed nations.
Triston LaCross do you even know what these words mean? “Republic” refers to the way the government is organized , with representatives representing the people and a president. France is also a republic. It’s a fundamentally democratic form of government
Triston LaCross you do realise you’re not the only republic democracy and you’re definitely not the ones doing it best
@@tristonlacross4275
Low voter turnout has nothing to do with if it Republic or not. Majority of the countries on the Earth are republics except few constitutional monarchies.
@@elliotsmith8940 any facts to back up your claim? Because I'd argue the opposite. More diverse groups tend to be more politically active to advance "their" candidate
@@elliotsmith8940 You do realize that your claim is actually false and the Government has made it harder for lower-class citizens to vote (largely affecting the minority population).
The Supreme Court is such a joke
I grew up in NC while the original racially gerrymandered map was in effect and learned about it in elementary school - one of my earliest memories of learning about politics. Later, as a freshly turned 19 year old, I worked at a canvassing agency hired by the ACLU to raise money for the lawsuit against HB2, otherwise known as the bathroom bill, which came to be thanks to the partisan gerrymandered map. This video hits home in a lot of ways, and all of the things that were talked about here honestly played a huge part in shaping my view of american politics. Needless to say, I do not have very much faith in the way that the separation of state and federal government has been carried out. Good job North Carolina, your repulican government made me a democrat.
The man actually had the nerve to joke about it. Disgusting!
I just hear a scottish mom scraming that
Becuase democrats do this aswell
@@ilikekspwaytoomuch4691 so what? Republicans were never mentioned in the comment
Yeah, what a crook
Yasha Yuksel Not nearly as much. Look up actual voting statistics. If it weren’t for gerrymandering, republicans would never win another major elections.
There is democracy ...and then there is "American" democracy
Archiworks 992 It’s not only in the U.S.A that Gerrymanderring happens
@@the8thgemmer467 It's only worth to do in countries with "winner takes all" districts.
Recenzje Płyt Yes, I know, but these are only half of all democratic countries. Saying this problem is unique to the U.S.A isn’t exactly right.
You act like this is a uniquely American problem
@@Jackk0921 because it is to libs and dems
Man I loved when Thomas Hofeller said "it's gerrymanderin' time" and then proceeded to gerrymander all over the US map. Truly one of the moments of all time
politicians: are litteraly rigging the elections
highest court in the country: no sorry thats not our problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The fact that this has existed in American democracy for centuries is disgusting.
We have same profile picture
@Hariom Shree Woah there slick, slow your roll. I don't agree with conservatives on most things either, but basically making them forbidden is one of the most un-American things I've ever heard in my life! Most conservative people, just like you and me, are just trying to get by through life and want what they think is best for themselves, albeit without much evidence.
The long and short of it is that what you're proposing is not only unconstitutional, but really dangerously authoritarian.
Hariom Shree bruh
@@joshuab2926 That's a spam bot btw, It was written in quite a few comments. Click the 3 dots to the right of the comment it made and report as spam.
@@Sanif514 the one from Hariom?
Nationally and locally, Republicans are almost never the preferred party. That's why gerrymandering is so important to them. It's almost impossible to win any other way.
Wow
Ninety percent of Republicans hate gerrymandering, it was just the few greedy politicians that started this, I am a republican and I would far rather lose a fair election than win an unfair one.
Edit was for spelling
@xSOLO Exactly. Only problem is that a good portion of those 90% of Republicans who hate gerrymandering end up voting for the greedy politicians that love gerrymandering.
@k a Statically Democrats are the majority and have the popular vote in almost every state.
@k a Just look at California as an example, they passed a non partisan districting law (anti gerrymandering) in 2012 and ever since it's been a blue sweep every election. Simply put they don't need Gerrymandering when they have the raw votes, if the districts are drawn fairly 9 times outta 10 the party with more votes will come out on top.
I am ashamed to say that it should not have taken his daughters disclosure to bring this to light.
It's no wonder that people are so disenfranchised and disengaged.
Wait! Hold on! You mean to tell me that this guy is on camera admitting this and the supreme court said its beyond there reach?
It's not illegal. The courts can't enforce something, even if they disagree, if it isn't technically illegal. Racial gerrymandering is, but partisan gerrymandering is not in any law. Congress would have to make it illegal (but they have literally 0 incentive to).
@@Tony.H03 making borders based on data collected of people should be illegal. districts should cover x number of people with y amount of space.
A common misconception about the Supreme Court is that they can overturn laws. Their main duty is to ensure that actions do not violate existing laws and the constitution. It is Congress' place to rewrite or invalidate laws. That's why a lot of their rulings tend to be on human rights issues because they interpret a document written hundreds of years ago.
Isnt because there is no specific legislation about partisian gerrymandering? Supreme Court cant make laws
That’s because the federal government has no say in how the States draw their congressional district lines (at least in the partisan gerrymandering) It technically doesn’t violate the Constitution.
awwwww I was hoping his name was Gerry Mander :'(
Gerrymandering actually came from a politician who drew "an eagle-like district". His name is actually named mispronunciation in the word gerrymandering which add an extra bit of salt.
"Gerrymandering" term came from Elbridge Gerry, vice president of James Madison. He drew electoral map of Massachusetts in such way that this term is named after him.
And the mander part came from salamander like district 12
The amount of people in these comments trying to defend gerrymandering of any form disgusts me.
Jerrymandering should be illegal
Republican here, this election map rigging thing should be illegal
It is, it's just so hard for the people getting elected to be the same people drawing the maps. That's case for Republicans AND democrats
Totally irrelevant, but I like your username.
@@Michaelc-wt8wg only racially motivated gerrymandering is illegal. Political motivated gerrymandering is most certainly not illegal and the Supreme Court has said this.
@@JediOfTheRepublic why bother voting if that is the case
So with the democrat majority in Congress this year in 2020, they wont gerrymander the districts right?
Why do we even have voting by precinct? Why cant the popular vote matter, then have smaller county votes for things that matter locally?? Why is gerrymandering even allowed legally?
Because each community has a right to elect their representatives.
@@laurent1144 but this is not communities representation ....
If thats true then the communities would be the one who put on their lines not individual from another state choosing for the rest of a whole country
@@laurent1144 Compromise. Each district would have 3 or 4 representatives elected by single transferable vote, this would allow local independents to be reps not just the two biggest parties. Ireland and Malta has this system.
You rank 1 2 3 4 etc.
Because then California alone would decide elections and politicians will pay no attention to small rural communities
@@luca7069 Politicians paying attention to the areas _where the most people live?!_ *Unconscionable!!*
The day the electoral college goes away is the day America becomes a true democracy.
Anyone caught with gerrymandering should be not allowed to EVER have a job in ANY government
Hofeller is evil. Thank god his daughter released his files and emails
When i was in my early teen i had a friend who was a computer wiz, self taught, and all that. One day his parents get confronted by the police, someone in that house had hacked into our country's social services domain. The kid very promptly assumed what he did, and so he explained: well, i did it because i couldnt believe - as i was going - how easy it was, so i kept going till i would found something that prevented me... i didnt.
I think with Hofeller was the same thing, he was good at what he did and he found that there was nothing to stop him. That was the vibe i got from that speech. He seemed dumbfounded for that being possible.
He died trying to keep Democrats out of office. A hero if ever there was one.
Can’t win on ideas, just cheat your way to victory
Packys Liquor store
It's the Evangelical way.
GOP in a nutshell.
@@angelgjr1999 Democrats in a nutshell too.
@@dl2839 Democrat-Republicans. That's what we're dealing with in today's elections. The USA hasn't been a true two-party state in over 70 years, but it has been a capitalistic oligarchic dictatorship.
Its not Democrats also. Stop lying. Republican ideas are old and outdated. They're here bc they cheat. Been proven time and time again.
America is actually one of the least free countries I can think of.
America is still a very free country, as we offer thousands and thousands of jobs. We allow people to have their own freedoms, rights, and beliefs. Yes, we may not be perfect. In fact, I don’t think we’re anywhere near perfect, but we still are a free country.
What country would you say is the most free country?
@@JediOfTheRepublic Antarctica
I HIGHLY recommend the CGP grey series on voting and elections. This problem is endemic to First Past The Post.
Switching to Proportional representation would solve these problems and be more democratic overall.
His Shortest Split-line Method is the solution against Gerrymandering.
Sadly, Supreme Court ruled that proportional representation is unconstitutional a while ago. Interestingly, it was on the basis of racial discrimination concerns.
American love thier local representation, so mixed member proportional representation would suit them better.
The person who wins the vote should win the seat, no?
@@mackenziegoodwin459 What are you talking about in terms of proportional representation being unconstitutional? The most they did was make it very suspicious to use multi member districts and also use a plurality system, IE if there are three seats open for the district and each voter has 3 votes which must be used for different candidates and the three candidates with the most votes wins. Proportional representation can be much better for racial minorities, and was actually a reason that it was fought against. Dozens of cities used proportional representation, such as single transferable vote, early in the 20th century, but the Cold War and the Second Red Scare made many people afraid of the increasing power of racial and political minorities.
Imagine needing to basically cheat in order to stay in office...sad
Unfortunately State governments can draw their congressional district lines this way (in the partisan gerrymandering way) and Supreme Court basically decided it’s not a federal issue, and doesn’t violate the constitution.
@@jasonknight9042 Exactly. Because it doesn't effect a federal election. Only a state election.
@@jasonknight9042 They said it's not a federal issue not that it doesn't violate the Constitution. It's just firmly within the state's power to decide that which is why they gave it to the states Supreme Court
@k a here come trump's bootlickers
Sadly people who can get away with cheats gets an easy pass
What a ridiculous voting system in America
High school teachers need to teach kids about this. I'm 33 and didn't know about this til now. -____-
Shut up and eat your quadratic equation.
They are definitely teaching this. I went to a solid red highschool and I learned about this. Fairly certain it's a part of AP government curriculum now
@@bubtrucker But not ever kid is smart enough to take a AP class though. I tried to take a AP class and it was too much for me, I had to drop out lol.
I am a Freshman and am learning this now.
This is so revolting and undemocratic.
I mean, voting is supposed to reflect the views of the people.
America isn’t a democracy
i’m pretty sure “democracy at work” and “an election in reverse” are two mutually exclusive things
Just like socialism and democracy.
AnEvilJoke what if we democratically chose socialism?
Its only okay when our party dose it.
Scary and sickening
why did I watch this. I already knew this. "If voting actually did anything, they wouldn't let us do it"
Share it with people who maybe don't know yet. And don't let them talk you out of voting anyway. Of course that isn't enough. Go volunteer for Bernie. Get involved with anti corruption activists etc. THe struggle will never be over, but we can make things a lot better than they are!
“North Carolina was his masterpiece”
Border gore, border gore everywhere. I’d hate to see what his “nonmasterpieces” are.
Thomas Hofeller would have probably creamed his pants if he saw an HRE map from the 1400s.
@@roadent217 /r/historyjokes/
@@pmeagle r/ihavereddit
IloveCzechRepublic that’s why it’s his masterpieces, his “nonmasterpieces” probably had much cleaner borders
@@roadent217 Or a game of Age of Civilizations 2.
We ungerrymandered Michigan, Pennsylvania, NC (at least for now), and Ohio will get fair maps in 2020! MD needs to get onboard
Maryland's districts has to be THE single most disgusting thing to exist on planet. Just look at the 3rd district rofl
Ohio, sadly did not get fair maps in 2020. Maryland did though!
If we are ever to achieve equality in our political system, gerrymandering would need to be abolished and it would be a great start to choosing your representative rather than the other way around.
The fact this still happens really should make you realise America is not a great country at all
yup they’re kinda not even democratic
And your country is? Not any better I'd imagine.
@@delorbb2298 Well mine for sure is.
@@delorbb2298 many European countries are better than US
@@iI_Principe Name your country, don't be shy.
Every Americans have to see this
American*
@@gilgabro420 I think in this sentence it should be 'all' instead of 'every'.
@@yoRockstardude134 "Every american has to see this." is also correct.
every chinese shud also see this
Everyone already knew about this
It's something that happens everywhere. For example in France (my own country), the socialist president at that time, François Hollande, decided to reduce the number of regions from 22 to 13 and merged together some of them in order to shift to conservative regions to the left. For example, he merged the region Basse-Normandie (traditionally conservative) and the region Haute-Normandie (traditionally left-wing) in order to flip the whole region to the left (because Haute-Normandie was a more populous region)
Take a look at Illinois new map. Worst gerrymandering I’ve ever seen.
Texas map is way worse
@@Farhankhan_the1 Not really, the new map and old map didn't change anything besides adding 2 seats and solidifying certain districts for either the Republicans or Democrats.
Gerrymandering should be illegal nationwide, point blank period. Full stop.
Filibuster too please
That's the problem you see, SOMEBODY has to draw the maps. And you know how the maps are drawn? with consideration to group similar people groups together.
Do you really believe making gerrymandering illegal will stop the government from doing what they want?
Great idea, so who draws the maps then? In Missouri we recently voted to have a "Demographer" map our districts instead of the legislature, I voted yes on this measure. The problem with it is that no matter what the demographer will be chosen by people of a certain party, and people rightfully fear that the demographer could then gerrymander the map to their allies benefit. So you see the problem here, you cannot make gerrymandering "illegal", it's impossible. The best we can do is be an attentive populace and call it where we see it, and demand better. Unfortunately most are not informed enough for such things. This is why we elect people to represent us, but if our votes are gerrymandered so we dont get the people that would represent us properly, and on and on and on. You see the problem, but there are no easy solutions.
Chancey M but there’s way to do it without favoring one party. In perfect representation, urban and suburban areas would actually get more districts then Raul areas as they have more people, and the House is based off population!
For those wondering why this is has not yet been outlawed, it is because there is absolutely no way to define gerrymandering in a way that is undeniable by those taking part in it.
Why outlaw it when you can just require states to use independent commissions to draw all congressional district lines?
"Redistricting is like democracy in reverse"
He says it as if people are supposed to like it because it has democracy in the name. "Democracy in reverse" is undoubtedly authoritarianism. "Politicians choose the voters" is like the main way dictators stay in power.
I live in north carolina. No wonder everything was so weird
Yeah I looked at the district and since I live in district 12 (Charlotte) it was so weird
My home state of Arizona, along with several others states has an Independent Redistricting Commission consisting of two Republicans, two Democrats and an Independent that decide redistricting. But this only came about because of a voter proposition that was brought to the ballot box and passed in the year 2000. I wish you would have brought this up in the video! We as voters are not powerless and this type of voter proposition could be brought up in any state!
Actually not all states allow for ballot propositions like that.
You are also naive to think Corruption can’t happen with an independent commission.
@@JediOfTheRepublic Well it’s less likely to be corrupt (like the Republic’s Senate and Chancellory was) than a partisan state legislature.
@@JediOfTheRepublic I've never heard of that happening in Arizona so far. The only controversy that happened was the Republican State Legislatures filed a lawsuit and brought it to the Supreme Court to bring back Gerrymandering here. The court threw out the case.
The problem is that many states, like North Carolina and Pennsylvania, don't have the citizen initiative and referendum process.
Gerrymandering can be INCREDIBLY powerful, using Dave's redistricting I was able to make Florida NINTEY PERCENT blue.
that might be able to help you in geting a job later if you get into politics
Vox: I wanna focus on District 12.
Me: I love The Hunger Games!
Need to get rid of Moscow Mitch
That's a problem with the Senate. The Senate by definition cannot be gerrymandered, as both senators are elected statewide. What you could try is something more like using say borda count for each senatorial election and use a proportional system for the House of Representatives, along with changing the structure of the Senate to give agenda setting powers and probably also the filibuster and committee appointments and chairs to different structures.
Moscow Mitch is so unpopular it might be possible for him to lose in such conservative states. Though it is unlikely as though many votes hate him, many voters would vote for him regardless.
Please drop your support for the new McCarthyism and new Cold War.
what a despicable man, even her daughter wasnt on his side
you dont think democrats have done this too California New York Illinois
Covfefe well considering the fact that these states are overwhelmingly democrat in voters than not necessarily. Stop using “but what about” tactics
@@covfefe1787 its not about republic or democrat
Mr. Murica no not at all they still are over 40% conservative and they have gerrymander that Democrats have the majority Maryland especially my home state of Illinois has been In the grasp of Democrats for 30 years high taxes poverty has made Illinois the third worst state to live in and the 3rd largest state to lose 1 million people in the 2020 census which shows you how great the Democrats are in power compared to republicans
Covfefe I guess that’s the result of neoliberalism, something I’m very much against and what’s taken over the Democratic Party unfortunately
Hey both sides are gerrymandering, but since republicans get most of usa and democrats get *densely* populated pockets is easier to then gerrymander, but *Iowa is gerrymandered,* new mexico and Maine too
Maine is not Gerrymandered
@@joshuaalfaro4781 yes it is
@@lucaslevinsky8802 How is it Gerrymandered?
@@joshuaalfaro4781 it's not like deeply gerrymandered but some counties are republican, and I'm not with any party
I know that the party that most gerrymanders is the republican
@@joshuaalfaro4781 some counties of maine are republican
Another clear example of cracking is Nashville, TN. The metro area was split across three separate U.S. House districts.
His daughter is the one with integrity. This country owes her a debt of gratitude.
The United States is a weird country with some of the most counter-intuitive laws i have ever seen.
its not just the U.S. Other countries have their ways on trying to exploit their own elections as well.
@@Tragedyval Yes... I agree. But for a country that brags about being the beaming light of democracy and 'the greatest country on earth' this (among other things) is ridiculous.
@@MrJuma95 so it's not like plenty of other countries citizens say they live in the best country
@@planetsheenishot3274 well I think I live in great country but to say it is the greatest I find it a bit strange. Countries can always improve I believe when you say that you are the greatest that it is like putting a blindfold on yourself. Because by saying your are the greatest. That means that there is no need for improvements.
@@Tragedyval your comment is classic whataboutism
Until it’s ONE person ONE VOTE we don’t live in a democracy.
Get rid of the Electoral College for starters.
Tbh it should just be an independent election where we don’t have to worry about partys
I like how everytime they mention hoffler suddenly that weird music plays, it's like he's a villain with his own theme song😂
How is this even and still a thing? It baffles me.
One person, one vote.
stella or one person two votes like in Germany
@@TAK-yj4hj or one person three votes like in the antarctic
stella exactly the simple solution, taking all the votes, and then what ever the percentage of democrates to republicans are is how the the representative should be split up for that state
You have to realize these districts are draw so local needs are met. Don’t get me wrong I don’t agree with gerrymandering at all, it kills our democracy. But if all the people in one area gain all the influence then many peoples needs outside of the area won’t be met
Republicans. Most Americans are democrat, but republicans rigged the elections to where land matters more than actual votes.
Why not just use popular vote, like in the majority of the world? I am not from USA, just wondering.
Because our government is rigged! Republicans have not won the popular vote for a president in decades. Look into the electoral college if you’re interested in it.
@@brendanmorin9935 bruh wtfdym by decades? The last time they won with the PV was in 2004
@@someguy6422 do you not know about the 2004 voting controversies?
FORREAL like if people from other countries could vote then republicans stand NO chance
@@kimaya.3563 you mean like Puerto Rico?
This vid should be named "Democracy in USA Explained".
What's telling is that the man can go to a public event with press and say that out loud. I see this all the time. Marketers spelling out to their investers how they're going to make money by exploiting consumers psychologically to do things they say consumers wouldn't do in their right mind. Politicians telling us they will do something unethical because gaming the system in that way is legal. It's like... how do they get away with it?
Luckily in my country there is no gerrymandering
Only Gerrymurdering
As someone who lives in Maryland, I can tell you that there is a TON of gerrymandering here too, but in this case, the Democrats did it. Maryland is about one-third Republican, but 8 (now sadly 7) out of our 9 elected Congressmen are Democrats.
I'm not attacking the Democratic Party, I'm just saying it's a bipartisan issue that needs to be fixed.
I feel same way about Illinois
Vermont's the same way as well
Margie Deal Illinois is actually quite non partisan
National Sarcastic Society totally agree, Democrats are guilty of gerrymandering too, but Republicans do it worst more often so it favors them more overall!
Chris I’m not backing the Republicans, I hate the Republicans, but you have to admit that Democrats do, do it too. They have. Off course no where close to what the Republicans do, but both parties are guilty, however the Republicraps do it worst.
Tbh they should just draw random lines on the map