To Rear Fill, or Not to Rear Fill...in an SQ Build? That is the question, and I have the Answer...
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Do you have, or like rear fill in your sq build, or is it totally taboo?
Do you have it with your 2-or 3-way front stage?
I like it...it helps widen my front stage, and subtly brings the sound around.
I run a 3 way active front stage and a passive 2 way for rear fill powered off the head unit in my build.
Sorry I didn't see your comment, but that's awesome! I've been running my rear fill off head unit power for years. I always felt it was a waste of money and amplifier power to have one dedicated to rear fill that you can barely hear. If you had the extra channels, then yeah, but I wouldn't buy an amp just to power the rear.
Great topic, was actually watching another SQ channel about the same thing.
I have 3way front, and 2way rear (mid bass in doors and 3.5s on rear deck), two 8” subs in trunk.
I feel the same way about all passengers 👍
I knew it wasn't just me. It fills in that tiny gap and gives passengers their own staging without pulling all of their attention to the front.
@@Ahm-Creative I guess it just depends on what you’re listening for. As an SQ person you might be listening for something different than the SPL guys . Even when I’m driving if I turn my head, I can hear music from the back corners.
@@milesbachelor8747 yes....that is the tricky part with these builds....and also what I would consider the odd part, if you will.
I got a demo in an SQ car that sounded great, BUT....you had to adjust the seat to a certain position to get that properly aligned center stage, and I just can't get with that. Like, it ONLY sounds good if you have your seat in THIS position? My center stage is where it's supposed to be if you're taller or shorter than me, and no seat adjustments are required.
I think it was how the car was built...it was just one of those things, but still a bit odd to me. Like, does it sound bad when you're just driving, since you can't put your seat in that optimal position? That sucks cuz the car sounded great otherwise.
I have 6.5” coaxials as rear fill. Mine are powered by my head unit. My front speakers are amplified and I use a DSP. My fader is in the middle, but I cannot hear my rear speakers in the front.
I think the ultimate goal is to really not hear the rear, especially as much as the front, as it would ruin the time aligned staging.
When I have mine fader in the middle, I hear too much of the rear, so I had to find a good balance.
I have since redone my rear fill with new speakers, and ultimately it's for when I have back seat passengers, as it tends to pull from my front stage in a way that I am not the happiest with. It's not bad by no means, but it's not as focused as it is when just using the front 3-way.
In case you missed it, here is the unboxing, install and demo:
ua-cam.com/video/sZDKc-fs-lQ/v-deo.htmlsi=h8l97b_q_lnY2UMz
My current build will have CDT 6x9 woofers in the rear doors. I will use my AC DM810 for them on channels 7/8 (1-6 in use for the front 3-way stage 9/10 summed for the subs and will split use to a front sub down the line).
Not sure until I get them in as to what I'll set the x-over that bandpass filter at, thinking 60 - 250 to 2000, no tweeters, delayed around 15-20 milliseconds. It will be the first time doing the fill this way but after hearing it done this, way, i'm convinced that the front stage can be maintained with the fullness the rear fill brings to the table. If you are going to use rear fill with tweeters, my recommendation is that it have, at the very least, the same tweeters as the fronts' as not to create a distraction introducing highs (which are what draw one away from the front stage to the back) that have a different sounding profile/signature (timbre).
Once that is done, sit up front and have someone adjust the gains on the rears until you think it's no longer there. To test, have someone pull the RCA's or shut the rears off if you have that ability and it's really impressive how much they are actually present. You'll have a "don't know what you have till it's gone" ah-ha moment. Then EQ then TA. Should be interesting :)
That's going to be a sweet sounding system and I can only wish I had 10 channels on my Arc Dsp.... which is one of the reasons why I use my head unit for rear fill.
I will say this... I've heard two champion SQ cars with differential rear fill and I was not impressed. I did not get the sense of a wider stage or fuller car.
If you view my newest rear fill video with the Morel Maximo Ultra 602HE MKII, I'm making it work for me with forward faded head unit power, with a flat full range signal, which is also out of phase with the front midbass, to not effect the upfront presence... and it actually works.
But, with the new set, I only run the rear fill when I have rear passengers, so they can get the full effect of my system, and not just have some of the front stage and a sub, with a gap in the back seat.
@@Ahm-Creative Oh, I get it. Not completely sold on the differential rear fill either, and frankly, after digging into it, not sure my AC DM810 functionally allows it to the degree that the Helix does - I'd be mimicking the settings to try and accomplish the same outcome, we'll see. I will have to play with that for sure later come this summer.
A narrow-er bandpass on the other hand, for staging really does work. I'm still debating on the rear tweeters thing (which I have always done - have the matching CDT coaxials if that should come to fruition) but I would actually need another R/L channel of DSP if i wanted to just add a matching tweeter and I'm not thinking that I'm heading there, already too deep into this thing to switch gears now. If I do get another set of ES 1200is tweeters, I'll have to run the rears active/passive, no ability to shut off the tweeters unless like you, I use the HU which in my case, probably not optimal as I would likely still want to run a bandpass to minimize the pull to the rear seeing as nobody is around to benefit from it.
With the DM810 I can actually save multiple tunes Single, double, triple quad occupants and toggle between the different saved tune's' depending on who is in the car. It allows you to do this from the dash mounted remote. I't almost always me so a lot of work for hauling around an extra person or two, once or twice a year.
Although it does give me an excuse to change things up, learn a lot more. Get'n too damn old (63 in march) for this stuff!
@@steveschwartz9771 lol man, I totally get it. I too have passenger presets...I have one for the rare rear seat passenger as well as a reversed time aligned side to give front passengers the best imaging. I don't mind suffering every once in a while so someone else can experience what I get daily.
I almost didn't do rear fill after I sold the coaxials I used in this video, but after listening from the rear seats, I had to put something back there for the occasional guest.
And I'll be 49 in March, but we're never too old for our love of the game ✊🏿
Just stumbled across this. I say rear fill. I have a total of 35 speakers (if you include coax tweeters as "separate"). 3 8inch subs and the rest mids and highs. Not a bunch of power...1200 RMS at most but I like the sound coming from all directions and I do not have a DSP but I have 4 EQs for a total of 30 different frequency controls. I have 2 tweets in series running off each of the 4 channels of the head unit for a total of 8 off HU alone. The head unit has a good built-in DSP and tweets are high-passed at 7.5 Khz with gain turned all the way down and I think a -20db slope. Dfntly adds some nice staging and dynamic. Then I have some mids facing me from the back seat area in my wagon and I REALLY like it. After all, you ears are the ones listening to the system the most. Cool vid.
That's awesome brother, and like you, I don't believe there's one set way to have a great sounding system. I trust my ears more than anything, and if all of our systems sounded the same, how much fun could that be. I love different systems.
Great channel, just found it and subbed. Sent to my brother tool
Ah man, thanks brother! I appreciate that more than you know! Welcome to the family!
Hey, Ahm... great video! I just stumbled onto your channel and am enjoying your work. I run rear-fill as you do. I have a 3-way front stage and run the rears from 250-1500Hz from the head unit's power (attenuated heavily). I think I prefer the rear-fill--slightly. When I omit it, I don't feel like I'm missing much, but I usually bring them back into the fold. I think this is one of those topics (e.g., sealed vs. ported) where individual preference will rule the day. Thanks for sharing your system and perspective on this one. Nice work!
Thank you so much brother, and I agree with you 100% on the preference debate. BUT, I am running my rear fill for passengers only now, because I finally got my front in perfected to my ear. When I ride solo, it's just the front stage.
In this video, I was running the Morel Maximo Coax 6, but have since upgraded them to the Maximo Ultra 602HE MKII, and I did an unboxing and sound demo if you're interested.
ua-cam.com/video/sZDKc-fs-lQ/v-deo.htmlsi=zcUX1pGeqeIEt-3l
While having my rear deck removed installing "by nines", I removed what little vibration coming from my deck metal. I love me some sound deadening!! Next off come the door panels, I have some already on there, but more is
always better!!
I had it underneath but both sides be mo better!
@@brianvarnes6174 absolutely! Sad how some ppl want the rattle. You're losing so much good sound with vibrations and rattles.
I have 5 layers on my front doors to keep all that goodness inside.
I've never cared for rear fill, but Peter over at PS Sound has got me interested in differential rear fill. I might give that a try if i ever replace my dsp.
I chat with Peter occasionally...very nice guy, and very knowledgeable. I've been doing rear fill off the head unit for years, and it's worked out pretty well for me. It's so low powered, it is barely heard from the front seat, if at all....but for the passengers, it completes the sound filling the gap between the front stage and sub. It's really just for them.
I’ve been watching PSsound and Peter is very knowledgeable. He is a rear fill proponent. He has talked about having the rear fill time aligned, so if you are using the head unit for the rear fill before the time alignment of the DSP does that make for issues? That’s my question.
I just did it. Though I have a Helix dsp it is possible to do without...with a couple extra steps..I have to say..so far so good though I only have a few days with it and haven't spent much time tuning after I hooked everything back up.
@@steveharley2021 I think Helix is the only brand dsp that can do differential rear fill.
I like to mount some mid bass for “Phil” he’s a buddy of mine who usually sits in the back.. lol I crack myself up.. but yea rear midbass and a full range 3” mid mounted high in the rear to get a little bit of the 3d stage. It’s one of my DSP settings I enjoy
@@chrisdenicola4336 lol too funny. I have since upgraded my rear fill since this video with a 2-way component set, with the tweeter high enough to hear, but not so high that it pulls from the front stage.... and I'm still running them off the head unit, as they're highly efficient at 94dB. You can see and hear them in my most recent videos.
Yea man that’s how u do it! Dude I’m on this rampage of trying all these small SQL companies.. recently ordered a set of Steven’s tweeters.. stereo integrity mids and tweets, one audio mids, and I even had to try those deaf bonce MM60 v2 6.5” mid even tho that’s a company I’d normally never use I’ve heard mind blowing things about that particular speaker and it’s true.. also I just started digging into Dirac with the mini DSP and it’s pretty Damm cool.. I just love car audio, even tho at my age “38” its kinda rare but I just can’t stop lol.. I could probably talk with u for hours, days about this lol.. ppl just don’t understand the addiction.. anyway, love the content! Thanks for the awesome videos they really are insightful!
@@chrisdenicola4336 Hahaha thanks my man! I'm 49, and started my car audio addiction on 1994... and I'm actually surrounded by guys in our age bracket equally, or even more addicted than we are. This stuff really brings me joy. To hear crystal clear, accurate car audio is just magical... and once you hear it at a certain level, there's no going back.
I haven't tried or heard Steven's Audio, but I've heard nothing but great things. A buddy of mine competes with One Audio, but since he's pure SQ, and not SQ-L like One Audio speakers are (at least that's how he feels about them), he's going to switching to Morel Elate Carbon like I have.
Stereo Integrity is awesome, but I've only heard their mid bass and subs. And I've heard mixed reviews and their mids and highs, so hopefully you'll share a video when you get yours. I'm not big on Def Bonce. Not that they're bad....it's just that I left SPL 20 years ago.
Yea man there’s definitely a unique sound to all these different speakers, that’s what I love about the whole experience.. and yes I’ll be making a video.. I’ve actually just designed a new power supply that integrates with EV’s and I’m gonna be doing an install video on how to integrate and pull big power from an EV using a special type of power converter and lithium system. I’ve actually caught a little bit of attention and acquired a couple sponsors that donated some gear so we should be posting it up in the next month or two! Just like you I’ve just got a passion for it. Anyway, I hope you enjoy those morels man I absolutely love those!
@@chrisdenicola4336 brotha that's awesome! Last I heard EV's and Hybrids have a 1,000w/rms limit, so if your invention works, you will change the world of car audio 👏🏿👏🏿🙌🏿
Yes, Morel makes the best sounding speakers I've heard and owned. At this point. I'M NEVER using anything else.
I don't have a rear seat, but there are rear speakers. Going to throw in some rear fill, but no high frequencies in the back. Easy to turn them off if I change my mind down the road.
My rear speakers are powered off the head unit, which is set to flat, to not conflict with my DSP tune, and are basically nothing more than a little sound for those in the back. It takes a sharp ear to hear the rear from the front seats, but some have heard them while others have not.
I will say, sitting in the back with them completely off sounded empty...I needed something back there to bridge the gap between the sub and front stage, even if by a little.
Hey man I have a noob question. I have a single cab truck meaning I have 6.5s components in the front doors and 4x6s in the b pillar so right by my ear. I unfortunately only have the pioneer head unit for now but I was wondering if I should fade my speakers more up front or turn down the speaker levels for my rears? I feel like I can hear my 4x6s a little too much and it takes away from the front sound stage. What do you think?
@@memes_6980 absolutely fade your head unit for, or lower the output or gain for the 4x6's to keep them from pulling your attention that way. Of course you don't have to lower them to a whisper, but they should only be giving you enough to fill the cab, and not pull from your front stage components.
I updated my rear fill since this video, and it should give you a better idea of what I mean.
ua-cam.com/video/6IHd0PzPltU/v-deo.htmlsi=3w04mL0jdlz68v47
@@Ahm-Creative Thanks for the advice man. Watched that video as well and have noticed my soundstage sounds a lot better with the fader up and doesn’t get interrupted by my 4x6s. I go back and forth between tuning the fader but way better either way
@@memes_6980 it's all a balancing act. It took me a minute, but I found my sweet spot, and although I love when it's just the front stage playing, but that rear fill makes it complete.
Current system is still in progress. 2 way front stage , no rear fill, and a single subwoofer. It's an oem+ build that will look completely stock with great sound quality.
Aside from my tweeters in pillar pods, everything else is in oem locations. I might do custom pillars in the future, but for now I'm ok with how everything is set up.
Hopefully you'll make a video when you're done. I'd love to hear it.
remember if you want to rear fill; always ask permission first ... it isn't for everyone. You ask and you might just find someone that loves it. As with anything, you do you no matter what you like! Some say it is just more to love. I don't think it is taboo. I went to try it but it just didn't fit, didn't want to break anything back there. Maybe I will try again in the future when better prepared. I always offer my passengers the chance for me to fill it in, I'm not selfish.
Hahaha it seems like that right! Mention Rear Fill and people gasp! Actually, I have since upgraded my rear fill since this video, and it made a HUGE difference for me. It may not be noticeable through video, but it totally fills the car without pulling from the front stage one bit. The front stage was great for me, but I did want it a tad wider, and like you, I wanted to fill the gap for my rare rear seat passengers, as I have sat back there and it is just not remotely as enjoyable when all they have is some front stage, and a sub. The rear fill fills the gap for them, and the whole experience is great for all, front or back.
Here's the updated rear fill video. I'm now using Morel Maximo Ultra 602HE MKII components instead of coaxials.
ua-cam.com/video/6IHd0PzPltU/v-deo.htmlsi=94kyGDuq5nqr5YI-
I wouldn't do rear "fill" at all. There's a way to set up rear speakers (differential or something like that) where their propose is to widen the sound stage. That I'd go for.
That's exactly what I achieved with this setup. It's nearly impossible to tell watching via UA-cam, but I made a recent video where I'm using new Morel speakers for rear fill, and you might be able to hear how wide the stage is when I turn them on.
That comparison starts at the 6:30 mark. Here is the link.
ua-cam.com/video/sZDKc-fs-lQ/v-deo.htmlsi=Add0fU7OruX3CbVN&t=391
Hello my friend,
I totally agree with your opinion.
I currently have an SQ setup (3 way front + sub in the trunk + amplifiers and dsp) and it's true that without rear speakers, when I put the music on at a certain volume and sit in the back seat, the subwoofer can be heard a lot and my front speakers a lot less. And I think that's a real shame... So I'm going to add a 2 way kit to the rear at the beginning of next year.
Could I have the name of the music you played in this video? :)
Hello from France
Hello my brother from France!!
Glad to hear about your system, and even happier that you agree with the usage of rear-fill.
While it is true that your front stage is for YOU, what about the passengers? Not only do I have a reversed preset in my setup to where the time-alignment benefits the front passenger (so they get proper imaging), but sitting in the back seat with just a sub, with my front stage in the distance is not enjoyable.
I do not hear much of my rear-fill from the driver's seat because of how the front stage is, but it is a much better musical experience for my passengers as it pulls the front stage back towards them, and blends with the sub better.
Although I don't compete in SQ competitions, my friend does and he says some are starting to move towards adding rear-fill, and even 2-seat tunes as well. Should be interesting.
As for the song, it's DRM-Free music from the UA-cam library. You can find it at the link below!
Thanks for listening, and I hope you'll share your build with the rest of us as well.
ua-cam.com/video/JGY-Vclizm4/v-deo.html
My rear speakers are standard in my 2015 golf base system and sound bad compared to my Audison apk 165 so have the rears off
@@Birmingham_racing yeah, that's the best move, but once you upgrade them, if you power them lightly by fading the head unit forward, they can really enhance your listening experience.
That's the one thing I never understood people say they like rear fill but they're running their rear fill off low power and it's faded so far to the front it's like it's not even there anyway so why have it
What's up brother! I totally get it, and I used to think the same way. Please don't take this as sarcasm, but it's in the name....rear fill is just that...tit's used to fill the rear with just enough sound that you don't have a gap between your front stage and sub. Without rear fill, it's not that great of an experience for rear seat passengers. Plus, rear fill helps to widen your front stage.
And that is also important. Your front stage is where you sit, so you want the best possible sound up there with you. The rear fill is to widen your sound stage and make the car feel fuller, without pulling your attention towards the back.
Most cars have front speakers on the lower part of the door and tweeters on the sail panels. If the front and rear speakers are the same volume, because most rear speakers are on the rear deck of the car, you will hear them first, and your focus will be back there...but again, you're in the front, so you want the best sound, and most volume up there with you.
When done right, rear fill just fills the gap and gives the aura of spaciousness in the vehicle and not just front rear left right...if that makes sense to you.
I recently redid my rear fill with component speakers and it totally changed my sound. Not super dramatically, but my sound is fuller now.
Please watch the video below (with headphones if you can). It's a lot of good information in the video, but if you wish to skip to the rear fill comparison, go to the 11:00 minute mark.
ua-cam.com/video/6IHd0PzPltU/v-deo.html
Greetings kind sir, my local "guy" tells me placing the added speakers creating a 3 way, so low in my doors, won't give me desirable results. He suggested custom a-pillars to achieve the sonic improvement I seek.q logic makes kick panels for my car. Should I use some 6.5" mid-bass drivers? I won't send anything lower than 80hz or possibly 60?
What's up brotha! Sorry, but your "guy" is incorrect...and it sounds like he may be pushing you towards custom a-pillars to earn your business. Not knocking his business, or skills, but with proper dsp tuning, you can get your 6.5's from low in the doors to sound as if they're on your dash without issue.
I have Morel MW9's in my doors now, but I had their MW6's before, and they both ended up on the dash too. Proper tuning and time alignment is key and it can 100% be done.
As for the q-logic q-forms, I had them back in the day, and unfortunately it was a total waste of time and money. Not only did they not help with imaging, but they also were very thin, so I had to line them with a spray deadener like cascade audio or even dynamat, so they wouldn't flex or resonate. Not to mention people would ALWAYS kick them when they got in my car.
But yes, you can get your mid-bass on your dash with proper tuning.
@@Ahm-Creative you're starting to sound him. Dsp? No thanks, if I can't achieve my sound with two Audio Control pieces, I'll "settle" with analog goodness! Just too much, regarding dsp. I'm a set it and forget it kinda chap!!
@@Ahm-Creative but thanks for the heads up about q forms. I too remember them from back in the day. Never own any, just remember good staging
@@brianvarnes6174 LOL you can set it and forget it with a dsp too. A dsp will actually be WAY easier than two Audio Control pieces. Those Audio Control pieces will not get your mid bass off the floor, even with angled q-forms....trust me. The car I had q-forms in, was eq'd with an Audio Control EQ-L/Four.1 combo, and I never got the mid bass off the floor. A dsp is the future, and is used instead of an Audio Control manual eq for a reason.
I didn't create this page to sell or mislead anyone. A dsp is your friend, I promise.
@@brianvarnes6174 what I thought was good staging with q-forms is laughable in comparison to what can be achieved with a dsp, I promise.
rear fill minimal is good competition SQ sucks to listen to Imo that's a tune never on my daily is my own version of a SQ tune then there's the SQL tune and the Demo tune for showing it off. There a reason DSP's don't just have 1 preset. (Good ones anyway)
I agree with everything you said, bro! Most SQ cars don't sound that great to me, but SQ-L and Demo cars are awesome.
I'm new to the SQ scene.... So, with SQ you don't want any bass at all? I feel like a little bass gives the experience depth. When I say, a little bass, I'm not talking about the little "thumps". Think of a good nightclub sound setup. I'm just curious. Thanks
What's up brotha! I'm not an SQ competitor, but I know quite a few and have been to many shows.
You definitely want bass...especially up front. You want to have your system so balanced, that you cannot localize any speaker, even if you're looking directly at them. That's how the systems are designed at SQ shows.
If you sat in my car, and I played a properly balanced song, you would be hard pressed to find each speaker...because everything meets on the dash at the same time...even my sub in back. It's almost weird how it works, and I mean weird in the best way. It's just magical.
It all comes down to proper tuning and time alignment...and it really helps if your system is fully active. You can get a good sound stage with a passive system, but going active gives you that much more control.
Kind sir, rather than pay several hundred dollars for custom panels to house the 3.5" midrange speakers, Paging Dr Holesaw!! Question being, envision the added midrange drivers just outside of my 6.5" mid-bass 6.5" I ask BEFORE I cut big holes in my doors, is it accurate sonically? I think it's going to be a "game changer" as one respected authority stated
Hahaha well, before I upgraded to the MW9 midbass, I had the Hybrid MW6-MKII and it was awesome and sonically accurate. You just have to make sure your crossover frequencies are correct, and yes, it will be a game changer 🤙🏿
Bro, I was an installer at Circuit City!! Currently have my rear deck 6x9s powered by my deck, full volume. Fixin to upgrade my 2 way front stage to a 3 way, first time ever! Excited-much!
Circuit City was LIFE! I had the most fun when dB Drag Racing shows were hosted there. I had a ton of Circuit City trophies... fun times I'll never forget!
Your 3-way upgrade is gonna be a game changer bro! Please let me know when it's done 🤙🏿
@@Ahm-Creative will do sir, nice to see I'm not the only one! (Addict!) Lol
@@brianvarnes6174 aw brother, I'm 30 years in, and STILL as excited about car audio like it was my very first day.
Full Blown Addict 🤣🤣🤣
@@Ahm-Creative name's Brian sir. From Sacramento
@@Ahm-Creative Circuit City Roadshop, this is Brian how may I direct your call?!!!
If rear fill is done right you should hear it and not be aware that you are hearing it.
That's what I've heard, and it almost makes no sense to me. I've heard champion SQ cars with rear fill, and honestly, it made no difference to my ears (as he was able to turn it on/off via dsp). But, because I don't compete SQ, my rear-fill is done the old school way, running off head unit power and so light that it's really for rear seat passengers. I can BARELY hear it up front, and most can't tell unless they lean back and listen for it.
Thats how rear fill should be and the purpose for it ,to bring the performance to the rear while hearing a front stage .
Furthermore, I already know what subs I'd get, if i were ever need new subs. And they're hella cheap!!!! I know first-hand, how they sound, as I've had the 10s in a sealed box, and LOVED them.
Hey brother. Great video as always. You forgot to say with speakers are you using for your rear fill. I use your crossover points and it sounds way better than the ones recommended on the manual that came with the speakers. I'm thinking on the morel tempo ultra coax for my rear fill but I'm afraid that being a lower end speaker compared to my elate carbon pro 63 in the front they could dirty the sound quality or something. What do you think?
Hey brother....long time, no chat! I thought I mentioned my rear speakers being the Morel Maximo Coax 6. They're definitely lower models than my Elate and MM3, but I'm only running them off head unit power, and my head unit is faded forward to cut the power even more, so they are barely heard, if heard at all from the front. They're really there just for passengers, so it doesn't affect my front staging.
I'm really glad my crossover points helped. I actually got them directly from Morel, as they used the same points in their SQ and Demo cars.
@@Ahm-Creative you know that looking at one of your videos were you mentioned that you wanted more mid bass I started to think that in my case that I don't have the space to install the MW9 or the 8" Stereo Integrity I could put a second pair of MW6 on the rear doors instead of coax and gain more mid bass. Did you ever think about that 🤔. I mean. That mid bass will be coming from behind you complementing the lower frequencies of your subwoofer. If you think about it, one of the reasons why the JL W7 sounds so good is because it can play all the way up to 180Hz. Hopefully it could be a good theme for one of your future videos. If it is in deed a good Idea of course 😅.
@@reynielasencio1964 I actually went with the 8" subs up front after I heard the Morel SQ Mazda! I had never heard anything like it before, but once I heard it, I knew 6.5's wouldn't cut it anymore.
And even though my 12" sub is time aligned, and matches my front door 8's starting points.
My sub is 24-80hs, then 80-250hz for my doors...there's no need for my sub to play higher than 80....and 180hz may be a bit too high.
Instead of using the rear doors for more midbass, which could pull your front midbass back towards the rear, adequate power and a time aligned rear sub will help your front midbass.
My front stage sounds very full, and my rear sub actually fills the whole car because of time alignment...time delay.
Normally, you can hear the sub energy in the rear, but with my current setup, it's everywhere....it's all in the tuning.
It’s just like brands, it’s personal preference. Rear fill is the way I like to go because I have passengers
Agreed. I just updated my rear fill with the new Maximo Ultra 602HE MKII, and did a complete unboxing, install and sound demo. It's one of my most recent videos.
Right now, I only play them when I have passengers. When it's just me, they're off.
@@Ahm-Creative I’ll go check that out and I forgot to hit subscribe, but I’ll go subscribe right now
@@BlackEyeSRT aw man, I appreciate that more than you know. Thank you 🙏🏿
two available channels are sreamin loudly from my 2 ohm Infinity Kappa "by nines" in my rear deck. yummy af
Nothing better than achieving the sound you've been chasing.
bro, the vas of the woofers Im looking at is 2.5'. However, my enclosure is 1.75'. What will I be losing by using below the vas of a particular sub. The 91 sensitivity they offer is why I',m tempted
Your woofers will have to work a little harder to produce the sound they're capable of...mainly if the enclosure is sealed. If it's ported and still too small, you can likely "choke" the woofers if the port is too small...which it will likely be, if it's a smaller ported box.
If sealed, to compensate for the smaller enclosure size, a pound of polyfil will help. Ported, that may or may not work, if the ports are still too small/restrictive.
@@brianvarnes4803 that is a pretty big jump in efficiency... I'll be surprised if you don't notice. I doubt it'll be night and day, but the gains should definitely be there.
@@Ahm-Creative thanks for your help sir. Think I'm gonna keep breaking these Type S''s, and be DONE buying woofers!! Bought these new, and always run @2ohm. Subs for life , in other words
@@brianvarnes4803 hahaha glad I could help! Might I suggest Stereo Integrity SQL-12's if you want to get LOUD!! My one is surprisingly loud, and they will definitely give you more than the Type S's and Kappa's But if not, you can't go wrong with what you currently have.
No mix engineer, nor mastering engineer ever used “rear fill”
And that’s for good reason.
It causes phase issues, you may like that sound, but it’s a form of distortion.
All distortion isn't bad, and if it sounds good, then it must be ok. Plus, in conventional left/right stereo systems, there are always rear speakers, so mix and mastering engineers do take them into consideration....if not, it would the sound stage, in stereo or time aligned.
3 way passive up front ,Rear 6.5 mid with built in compression horns, Rear is active.DSP control and fade dead center, with time alinement to drivers side wide?
Is that how your system is set up? I'm guessing 3 way passive is because you don't have enough channels to run fully active up front?
I would love to hear a setup like yours?
Yep, you wright, 3 ways up front, gong to add compression horn driver's bout 500k xover for a mid-effect. @@Ahm-Creative
@@lionellrabb9566 man, I loved compression horns back in the day, and actually heard a car with them recently. Still amazing in today's time.
I usually use rear fill in larger vehicles or with regularly rear sea use. I limit the frequency range, speaker size and level for the rear fill. I used rear fill in a 1971 vw beetle to Increase perceived cabin size. The vw was a sq daily. I used to install sq systems professionally in 90's and early 2000's.
That's awesome! I used to compete dB Drag in the mid 90's to 2000 then retired. I built a personal SQ vehicle where I had my rear fill running flat, off head unit power, faded forward like I have here.
As a matter of fact, in my most recent Morel unboxing, I did just that with an upgraded set of their Maximo HE line. They're also running off head unit power faded forward just the same, but only when I have rear seat passengers. When I ride alone, I only have my front stage playing.
Here's the video if you hadn't seen it yet.
ua-cam.com/video/sZDKc-fs-lQ/v-deo.htmlsi=RlxA1H75OdIoJRFp
Nice video brother, subscriber here in ph! :) love your vids! anyway great song, whats the title?
My brother! Thank you for the kind words and sub! Here's a link to that song.
ua-cam.com/video/JGY-Vclizm4/v-deo.htmlsi=C6tTGHeIRXiXRFry
thank you! looking forward for more car audio tips! take care bro :)
@@Ahm-Creative
Bro i am planning to go active on my front twitters for more precise tuning on dsp but i only have 4ch amp for my front components and rear coax, should i remove my rear door coax on my amp and let it powered by my head unit?
@@gelo_tiongson that's exactly what I did in this video, and have actually upgraded my rear fill since.
They're still being powered by my head unit, but check this out.
ua-cam.com/video/sZDKc-fs-lQ/v-deo.htmlsi=bcwAJoPJZNrffw5e
@@Ahm-Creative nice! okay now i know what to do for my setup to make it sound more better hehe thanks to you bro! , ill be installing my sub today behind the seat of my toyota pickup, a shallow 10" infinity ref sub and in front im using ciare 2 way speakers. amp for the components is rainbow dream 4 and temporarily will use my spare rockford r250x4 amp for the sub (bridged) i hope this will sound good hehe :D btw tuning and install for the sub is just a DIY project haha
Rear fill is ok if you use mid range or mid bass speakers
Here's my updated rear-fill video:
ua-cam.com/video/sZDKc-fs-lQ/v-deo.html
Ok ok, I will remain gleeful with my 2 way front stage. The available low-end dominance at any point, will continue to be rhe "bread n butter " of my setup. 2 ohm delicious thumping mid-bass output from my amp will satiate my hunger...
...
I'm simply not paying for custom a pillars😊
Mid bass is LIFE! 🙌🏿
@@brianvarnes6174 lol agreed... which is why I have those pods. Maybe not as good looking as custom pillars, but they only cost a fraction of what custom pillars cost, and they're removable in case I ever sold the car.
@@Ahm-Creative thinking of ordering some more deadening to my doors. Maybe even coverage panels to get the "enclosure effect " to my 6.5" doors speakers
@@brianvarnes6174 I have 5-layers on my doors, and it was a total game changer. The more the better, as it definitely won't hurt your sound, and your doors will close like a vault! My car is SOLID now.
Are the rears time aligned? if not, can you tell that the front stage is delayed with DSP?
So, prior to installing the rear fill, the whole system is time aligned... everything is centered on the dash... even my rear subwoofer.... which has to be out of phase for this to be accomplished.
That also meant I had to put my rear fill out of phase as well, or I'd lose all midbass.
So, what it does for me is widen my stage, and also makes the listening experience for rear passengers 100 times better, as it pulls the front stage more towards the rear of the car, filling the previous gap where they'd hear some of the front, and the subwoofer.
Now, with the rear fill installed, it's like they have their own phantom front stage when sitting back there.
I've updated my rear fill since this video. If you view the video I released yesterday, you'll see the changes I've made.
the rear speakers sound good to me
Thank you brother. I have actually replaced them since this video, and I did an unboxing, install and demo.
You can see it here:
ua-cam.com/video/sZDKc-fs-lQ/v-deo.html
I was always about rear fill and to be honest if I didn’t have kids I would not use it now. Or I would at least try it out.
Agreed! At this point, I'm only using rear fill if I have back seat passengers.... so it helps pull the front stage towards them, so they don't have nothing other than a sub back there. But when it's just me, it's front stage only.
@@Ahm-Creative same
I need my rears back
They make the vehicle sound so full! I've actually upgraded my rears since this video, and did an unboxing, install and sound demo.
ua-cam.com/video/sZDKc-fs-lQ/v-deo.html&lc=UgwKVHXCl-rY_0ZTFhd4AaABAg
Ok ok, my rear fill will now be amplified with the two available delicious channels of 80 +rms of Arc power. I WILL use all of the amp I just $200 to repair! $1500 for custom A- pillars? Nope. I scored some Infinity Kappa 6×9s begging to keep up with his brothers up front!! Kappas
Niiice! Your build sounds SWEET!! I used to sell/install Kappa's back when they had the green cones, but recently heard some current models, and they sound even better!
@@Ahm-Creative for sure, I too remember the green cones! I heard the stark difference to the reference series. So much so, 20 yrs later, and the Kappa Kid lives on!!
And thanks for the compliment
30 yrs by now
@@Ahm-Creative running the Kappa " by nines" full-range from my amp, should exponentially improve my mid-bass, yes?
What mic is that brother?
Hey brother. That is the Zoom H2N.
Bro, I beat our neighbors and the public thinks we are crazy Cray cray with all the in-car listen we are doing! ja ja ja I have run rear fill in the last two builds (my 06 Roush F150 Stage 1 and the 20 Camry XSE) my 2005 Competition Camaro I only ran 3 channels (A 3-way front Stage and Sub on the Xtant 3150c). Oh almost forgot just put the Alpine Optim 6 DSP in yesterday! Wow, now my neighbor going to really think I am crazy with the laptop and mic tuning! ja ja ja Semper Fi and Can Do OORAH
Lol oh yeah, my neighbors always look at me funny, then ask what the computer is for, and they freak out when I tell them it's for my car stereo. It blows their minds.
No rear fill for me lol
Lol even though I can't hear them, it almost feels wrong to not have SOMETHING in my rear doors, even if at low volume. Gotta give my rare passengers more than just a sub 😄
The stereo image gets blurred with a lot of music if the rear fill isn’t perfectly summed and all.
@@zeropointstar agreed. It doesn't translate well through this video, but it's summed. It adds to the front stage, making it a bit wider, without pulling from it.
I didn't have my Zoom recorder set right, but I finally got it corrected, so all of my videos going forward should give a truer representation of my system.