So how I understand this and please correct me if I'm wrong; people tend to think echoism is being an introvert, when that is not the case. Introverts are ok with being alone and can cope with thier feelings with a healthy manner; where as echoists are shut in by thier traumas or experiences, they don't cope with thier emotions in a healthy manner. Because echoists are sort of conditioned to shut themselves in, they get confused as being introverts. Am I understanding this correctly?
Yes. I think the easiest way to think of it is that Narcissists crave constant attention for external validation of their existence, and Echoists fear attention because any attention - even good attention - can turn dangerous very quickly. While healthy Introverts are just quieter and enjoy their alone time, Echoists need to be invisible in order to feel safe. Even just asking for help or feeling a basic need for something will induce fear because it means drawing unwanted attention.
Yeah, i was wondering how introverted i actually am considering i am a strong echoist but actually like a lot of social activities. I just deny myself access for whatever thought or reason
Maybe echoism can result in codependency but it is not the same concept. Echoism is a trait. Watch the video and you will learn it's a way of coping with knowing you can not depend on others. So it might be involved in a codependent relationship but is not exactly the same concept as codependency. there is a lot of overlap with these "names" for things which are really results of trauma, and naming your condition help give you a framework to heal. This is just from what I have been reading about it today.
Connection between narcissism-echoism spectrum and introversion-extraversion spectrum is wrong. These are not at all related. Overt-covert has indeed something to do with extraversion, but even this relation is not absolute, in my experience
@@CraigMalkin, thank you for your reaction, I would like to read the study you refer to. But my experience (however little and insignificant it is) doesn't support the relation, unless, of course the organisers of the study meant something different by 'extraversion' than what I mean. I found that narcissists can be any personality type: ISFJ (my mother), ESFP (her long-time female friend), ESTJ (her other female friend), ESTP (my father), ENTJ (my wife), ISFP (her father), ENFP (one of the bosses in my company); same refers to codependents / echoists I know: ISFJ (myself), ENTP (my wife's mother), INFP (my mother friend's son). So, in my view, it all seems to be quite mixed. There is, however, the same popular misguiding stereotypes regarding introversion-extraversion spectrum, some people use the terms loosely (just as is the case with the term narcissist that came to mean 'boastful jerk'), so the term 'exteravert' could be applied not accurately enough. To me the very idea - that a personality type can have a direct effect on which personality disorder (narcissism or echoism) develops from an insecure attachment style - seems to be very strange... However, there's no use insisting. If somebody came to such conclusion - good... It just doesn't apply to my situation. Also, I'd like to use this chance to thank you for your impressive work, and I mean both your book and your videos. Thank you for reaching out and lending a helping hand to those who suffer from narcissistic abuse.
Mikhail Belkin I’m using extraversion/introversion as a personality trait and referring to not one but decades of studies on the correlations. Jungian typology isn’t supported by research because it’s too vague/overlapping with other constructs. Instead, researchers use the measure from the NEO (big five) you can find all the studies -maybe hundreds- reviews here. Echoism findings are on my website. No one else has researched it. www.amazon.com/Handbook-Narcissism-Narcissistic-Personality-Disorder/dp/047060722X/ref=asc_df_047060722X/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312446862670&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15888110365962066865&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002076&hvtargid=pla-492227010454&psc=1 but yes, sounds like you’re using the more informal definitions and your experience is still valid. Even high correlations allow for exceptions :-)
Very very interesting. Thank you!
I just found the answer some questions I've thought about. Now if only they trusted me enough to believe me.
So how I understand this and please correct me if I'm wrong; people tend to think echoism is being an introvert, when that is not the case. Introverts are ok with being alone and can cope with thier feelings with a healthy manner; where as echoists are shut in by thier traumas or experiences, they don't cope with thier emotions in a healthy manner. Because echoists are sort of conditioned to shut themselves in, they get confused as being introverts. Am I understanding this correctly?
Yes. I think the easiest way to think of it is that Narcissists crave constant attention for external validation of their existence, and Echoists fear attention because any attention - even good attention - can turn dangerous very quickly. While healthy Introverts are just quieter and enjoy their alone time, Echoists need to be invisible in order to feel safe. Even just asking for help or feeling a basic need for something will induce fear because it means drawing unwanted attention.
very interesting
Thank you!
Thanks
Yeah, i was wondering how introverted i actually am considering i am a strong echoist but actually like a lot of social activities. I just deny myself access for whatever thought or reason
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So is echoism another name for codependency? They sound like the same thing to me
Maybe echoism can result in codependency but it is not the same concept. Echoism is a trait. Watch the video and you will learn it's a way of coping with knowing you can not depend on others. So it might be involved in a codependent relationship but is not exactly the same concept as codependency. there is a lot of overlap with these "names" for things which are really results of trauma, and naming your condition help give you a framework to heal. This is just from what I have been reading about it today.
Connection between narcissism-echoism spectrum and introversion-extraversion spectrum is wrong. These are not at all related. Overt-covert has indeed something to do with extraversion, but even this relation is not absolute, in my experience
Mikhail Belkin it’s not wrong at all; decades of research around the world demonstrate consistent correlations as I’ve described them.
@@CraigMalkin, thank you for your reaction, I would like to read the study you refer to. But my experience (however little and insignificant it is) doesn't support the relation, unless, of course the organisers of the study meant something different by 'extraversion' than what I mean. I found that narcissists can be any personality type: ISFJ (my mother), ESFP (her long-time female friend), ESTJ (her other female friend), ESTP (my father), ENTJ (my wife), ISFP (her father), ENFP (one of the bosses in my company); same refers to codependents / echoists I know: ISFJ (myself), ENTP (my wife's mother), INFP (my mother friend's son). So, in my view, it all seems to be quite mixed. There is, however, the same popular misguiding stereotypes regarding introversion-extraversion spectrum, some people use the terms loosely (just as is the case with the term narcissist that came to mean 'boastful jerk'), so the term 'exteravert' could be applied not accurately enough. To me the very idea - that a personality type can have a direct effect on which personality disorder (narcissism or echoism) develops from an insecure attachment style - seems to be very strange... However, there's no use insisting. If somebody came to such conclusion - good... It just doesn't apply to my situation.
Also, I'd like to use this chance to thank you for your impressive work, and I mean both your book and your videos. Thank you for reaching out and lending a helping hand to those who suffer from narcissistic abuse.
Mikhail Belkin I’m using extraversion/introversion as a personality trait and referring to not one but decades of studies on the correlations. Jungian typology isn’t supported by research because it’s too vague/overlapping with other constructs. Instead, researchers use the measure from the NEO (big five) you can find all the studies -maybe hundreds- reviews here. Echoism findings are on my website. No one else has researched it. www.amazon.com/Handbook-Narcissism-Narcissistic-Personality-Disorder/dp/047060722X/ref=asc_df_047060722X/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312446862670&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15888110365962066865&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002076&hvtargid=pla-492227010454&psc=1 but yes, sounds like you’re using the more informal definitions and your experience is still valid. Even high correlations allow for exceptions :-)
What's that noise!!! Kids in background???