BIG MISTAKE? Barn find Pantera parked for 45 years - Will It Run?
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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Tom Cotter, Davin Reckow, and friends unearthed this 1972 DeTomaso Pantera in the last episode of Barn Find Hunter ( • RESCUED: DeTomaso Pant... ). After a quick trip to the car wash to rinse off 45 years of dust and animal droppings, Davin makes a valiant effort to get this Italian sports car's Ford V-8 engine going again. Will It Run?
#WillItRun #BarnFindHunter #neverstopdriving #hagertydriversclub
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I’ve been working on and around Panteras exclusively for more than 30 years. They are amazing cars. I just spent the last five days packing up another garage find car today in fact.
Your car has a mismatched front bumper. The left one has a square inner corner-it’s from a 1971 (through March 1972) car. The March-July 1972 cars used the bumpers with rounded inner corners as this one has.
Although the mufflers are original, they are from a different car, a later one with the big bumpers. The tips point straight out the back of the muffler can, rather than tilted upwards as would be appropriate on an early car like this. There were actually three different styles of mufflers used on the chrome bumper cars. The earliest had a much smaller muffler can, the second series had one that was arguably too large, and the third style used the same just-right muffler can as those you have, except with the tips welded at a more jaunty angle.
The European GTS variant used nominally the same mufflers, except with larger diameter pipes and proper 4-into-1 headers. They are still available new (all were/are manufactured by ANSA) but are eye-wateringly expensive. Count on $2500-3500 for a full Euro GTS exhaust system. This car deserves it though.
The early cars had single adjustable shocks made by Ariston, which were license-built Konis. They are identical internally to Konis and can be rebuilt by any Koni rebuilder. They are really quite good and yours are probably in useable condition without any work needed at all. The aftermarket also has loads of options available. (I happen to have a good original set of 1970s Koni shocks with slighty stiffer springs for sale if you’re interested, although personally I would run what you’ve got for now).
Feel free to reach out for free project consulting any time. I’ve driven literally hundreds of Panteras and probably worked on at least a hundred, and I’ve got a house full of parts (and a very tolerant wife who has her own Pantera, making us a two-car family). I was the guy in Jay Leno’s Pantera video which we shot ten years ago (and can be seen elsewhere on UA-cam). My contact info is all over the place so I’m easy to find.
How much does a pantera like this one cost nowadays?
_WOW ~ FANTASTIC!_ I'd take a good resto-mod Pantera over _any_ other exotic in history!
Too cool! I love that you know so much about them. Will havta watch the Leno vid.
What a lovely old school gentleman you are reaching out to share your invaluable experience and perspective on these truly magnificent exotic Italian cars I had the great pleasure to run a Longchamp for a few years many years ago and it certainly required a very experienced mechanic to keep it fine and dandy !
@@williambarry70 ❗👍
If you do a Redline rebuild I will watch every episode. I promise!!
Agreed
Love the Redline rebuilds
Yes me too
same! pumped
Me three!
An old boat mechanic taught me that brake fluid eats anything that isn’t metal or alloy. They use it to free up locked or frozen engines. Pour it in each cylinder for 24 hrs. Worked for me 8 times already.
I’ve done brake fluid anti seize for years. An old mechanic taught me that as well. Those old timers knew how to get things done.
alluminium wheel cleaner too.
Thanks for showing the reality of taking on these projects. Not always as straight forward as most of the restoration programs make it seem. Thanks for keeping it real and relatable! looking forward to the restoration process videos.
Shame (but not surprising) about the engine - but the silver lining is you still have an incredibly original and solid early Pantera to work with, and in a GREAT color, to boot! Like others I will watch EVERY episode you produce on this build/ restoration/ however you want to phrase it.
This guy thinks push starting this car is a good idea?? He should have put PB Blaster in the cylinders.
Thanks Davin. I used to make these ready at Holland Lincoln Mercury in Albuquerque NM in 71-72. What fun they were to test drive for a 20 year old.
Mike Fifer
Right down the road from where I grew up. My dad was service manger at Lloyd McKee…
Cool, I saw the Turbine car demoed there !!! I also worked at Key AMC as a make ready@@1blindmarc
I remember going to my local LM dealer in Ohio where you could buy them for $9,999.95. Of course at my old age of 16, they were a tad out of my price range. Sad to see this one has set for sooooo many years.
They were 11 to 12 K at our dealer@@monkeybarmonkeyman
18:14 i think you should've put the car in 5th gear and pulled it from the front. Because now the wheels are drive and the engine is driven, 5th gear makes a lower ratio. I experienced this when i was adjusting the valve lash on a Peugeot. Just lifted the car on one side, put the car in 5th and turned the wheel to turn the engine and adjusted the valves.
Sorry for my bad english. I speak persian.😅🙏
Exactly what I was thinking.
My dad and his business partner ( they owned a construction company building houses) purchased a 1971 Pantera that was built as a race car but had a blown motor in it and it was locked up. Luckily, there was no critical damage to the block and they bored it and rebuilt it with high performance parts. They raced it for many years on road courses and between 1976 and 1978 they had quite a bit of success. They ended up semi- retiring it and just doing vintage races with modest success. They bought the car in 1975 and it was raced until probably 1980 or so. They sold it in 1982 to a gentleman who had 5 Pantera's. He absolutely loved it. I heard that he passed away in the early 2000's. I don't know what happened to the car as I moved to another state as did my father so I lost touch of where the car was. I sure miss that car it was a BLAST to drive!!!! It has always been one of my favorite exotic cars!!!!!
Personally, I would have rebuilt it anyway. A 351 isn’t a rare engine and aftermarket parts are plentiful and it’s a straight forward job. I’d port the heads or do aftermarket performance ones. An aluminum intake and a performance carb as well. Technology has moved so far forward since this was built, why not take advantage of that?
Can't wait to see how this turns out. Finally another Redline Rebuild! This one is special!
Couldn't you use the flywheel teeth to attempt to turn the engine over? There is a lot more leverage than your ratchet / cheater bar. Also Autolite/Motorcraft used to supply a plastic feeler gauge with their points that gave a much more accurate point gap than a metal ackward feeler gauge like you were using. A match book cover would be more accurate than that metal feeler gauge. The plastic gauge you would place between the contacts, (rubbing block on the high side of distributer cam lobe), (hold down screw snug, but not tight on points) open the points gently / slowly till the plastic feeler gauge fell over and then tighten the hold down screw. Don't forget to use cam lobe grease on the distributer cam, drop of oil on the felt pad for the advance shaft, ( it's in the center under the rotor) and suck on that vacuum hose to the distributer advance to make sure the diaphram is not ruptured.
yup.good point
Don't waste time getting a seized motor to run ! Take it out and rebuild it ! 👍👍👍
Absolutely agree 100%. There's a really good probability you'll do more damage pushing whatever seized it (copious amounts of rust, broken rings, etc.) up and down the cylinders. Another reason pulling the engine is the best idea is that even if what has it frozen is an easy fix, I guarantee that after sitting that long, the seals both inside and out are dried out and WILL leak. If there isn't any cylinder/piston damage and/or much cylinder taper then clean it up, hone it out, put in a good set of rings and bearings, reseal it front to back (now's the time by the way if you want to change out the cam/lifters to something a little hotter), get yourself a good "full" set of Felpro gaskets and put it back together for less then $1500 and you'll have a good reliable engine for another 200k miles. Oh yeah, put a clutch set (clutch plate, pressure plate, throw out bearing and pilot bearing) in it too. I would do that rather then take a chance on that rusty old thing that's in it. Just a thought.
I'm so glad to see this classic Pantera get the restoration it needs. I was very surprised to hear him mention Traverse City at the end! I used to live close to Traverse City. I know the area well. I've been to Traverse many times. I eagerly anticipate the next phase. Thank you.
I'm always fond of complains like "we bought a car that was sitting for 45 years, and it won't start. Big mistake?" Such a rare vehicle deserves a complete rebuild
This is one of the most interesting series, Love your work😍
Time is now to be innovative and aggressive in rebuilding the 351, unless of course the goal is to keep it stock and original as possible.
Keeping the vehicle naturally aspirated is probably recommended but, some internal upgrades would definitely add some spice to this Pantera pie. Balancing the engine components will provide the foundation for an ultra smooth and powerful driving experience.
Looking forward to see what is in store for this amazing Barn Find!
The engine has the most mechanical advantage in first and reverse gears. If you are trying to turn the engine over by dragging, the most mechanical advantage is in fourth. Rocking the car back and forth in 4th gear might have worked.
True
Actually, use 5th gear!
Im glad it didnt pop free actually, as now the cleveland will get the repair it desesrves.
Not a mistake by any means.The body is in great shape , its just the engine which needs help.Looking to see this car done up. What a lovely mating of Italian style and a Ford V8 ,its a marriage made in heaven.
The mistake was trying to push start the motor!!
it's american style.
Love this series. Rescuing the car getting it going. That's awesome. Keep on the good work. I am doing the same. I found a 1980 Mustang 4 cylinder turbo 4 speed car with 33,000 miles on it. A lot of fun
Great series of episodes on one my favourite cars. And the colour is absolutely perfect! Sucks to find out that the engine is locked up, but I'm selfishly excited to see the Redline Rebuild, and the Masters of Time Lapse do the voodoo they do better than anyone else.
That should be a pretty straight forward rebuild. Plenty of OEM available for those 351's.
I totally agree!! The 1st few seconds give it ALL away😊
Unless the block is ruined since the cooling system has lots of water and may have froze. Finger crossed.
At that point, you just toss the old block as a core and get a replacement 351C. I wouldn't be messing with a trashed Cleveland core.
@@PatientXero607 We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one...but that's okay. If i was the new owner of this car, I would want has much originality as possible to obviously include the original engine block and heads. Only if it is completely, utterly, absolutely trashed would i move on to a new block.
@@rlfmichigan There is a big difference between being the owner and a knowledgeable mechanic. That block is rusted completely inside. That means piston walls, pistons, piston rings, cam, and crankshaft. Even the bearings are toast at this point. Now given that this is plain-jane 351C, are you going to invest thousands into rebuilding that block? I didn't think so. If we're dealing with an R-Code GT500 where the cost of the car is in six-digits, then I would say yes. Pantera's don't yield that much compared to Shelby's.
Thank you guys for your videos. No criticism from me, how many of us will ever pull a Pantera into our garage and restore or update one. Beautiful. Thanks for allowing us to be part of something that otherwise we could never experience.
Davin is the perfect mix of pleasant media personality while still maintaining his authentic mechanic grumpiness. That Pantera is beautiful. My friend has one and he let me drive it. I found the pedal configuration quite unbearably tight. Maybe if you took your shoes off?
Ahh man thats gutting to see. Hope the rebuild goes well and you can see where it was sezied.
If the engine is seized, it's likely the top of the ZF is rusty as well. You'll need to crack the case the inspect it thoroughly. There are very few guys in the 'States who know how to rebuild a ZF and the bronze syncros are unobtainium.
This is the most interesting rebuild you guys have done in a while. I really can't wait for the next episode. I want to see every step of rebuild and detailing process.
I remember having mechanics tell me they used Marvel Mystery Oil to unstick frozen engines. If nothing else works, fill the crankcase and also add some on top of the cylinders. Soak for a few days then check.
A little ATF is another backyard solution that folks try.
@@Bill_N_ATXbrake fluid is best.
Sucks that it wouldn’t start. Great news, we get to see you rebuild it.
love my 1971 Pantera that I’ve owned since 1998. Learn more about the Pantera at Pantera Place.
From the look of the bottom of the car it was neglected long before it was parked. Nows a great time for the owner to detail the bottom of the car along with the engine bay. Also rebuilding the braking system that probably need all new lines along with everything else.
Awesome! Love Panteras. I just put up a video chemically dipping a red 72 Pantera! It was in amazing shape.
So how about pulling it forward in a higher gear? I've done that with siezed jeep engines before.
I was considering that too- using 5th instead of reverse to increase torque backward. Even in pulling backward... shouldn't cause any damage, right?
@@AdamStreet75 yup, it would work either way. Not like it’s going to try starting with the plugs out. ;-)
The gearing just acts as a torque multiplier.
One of my absolute favourite cars. I was wondering why you didn’t try turning the engine in a high gear on a rougher surface. ATF oil and acetone 50/50 is a great rust release. The acetone makes the solution penetrate and then evaporate.
Looking forward to the next episodes
I like this series with both channels. Should do more with this. Thanks 🤝👍
Glad you enjoyed it, Bill!
If a motor is locked up that strong it needs to be taken apart and fixed properly.
They're going to the ends of the earth to free up this motor yet they're in a shop with a lift and everything needed to pull the motor and open it up.
I mean, I guess they haven't tried a ouija board yet but c'mon - this whole operation is making me feel like a certified NASA engineer.
I fully agree with both of you. I do know if it were mine I'd try the same thing. Plus it would have been a bonus if it did break free. It was good content vs. A video 2 minutes long saying "well it's locked up". Not to mention they also avoid all the "just let it soak with oil and try a breaker bar, or drag it in gear" comments 😅
They tear the motor down to just the block its a great video check it out
These guys have more experience than you can shake a stick at....doubt they need to be told, bro.
They literally tore the whole thing down and rebuilt it.
Hope you can save the block. When I hear water came out of the coolant lines, I probably felt as bad as the owner. I've always loved Pantera's, can't wait to see more of the progress.
Anyone that's ever had to push-start a manual trans car knows to do it in high-gear to get the most leverage on the engine. It's no surprise it wouldn't turn over in Reverse.
I used a large screw driver on the flywheel to get an engine that was locked up. That was eight years ago and she still runs good.
I've always wanted to find one of these gems. Beautiful car.
Saw the first Pantera at a local Lincoln-Mercury dealer and I fell in love. That bodyline was wonderful.
Really looking forward to the redline rebuild on this unit!!!
I have '72 that I bought in '82. Road hard and put away wet (eg 40punds of bondo). This rebuild reminds me of all that I have learned in 40 years of ownership. Be sure to replace the u-joints in the drive shafts. Mine broke at 2 MPH and were a big-time disaster. At speed it can be catastrophic.
Loving this series. Can’t wait to see the damage when the heads come off!
Designed by the great Tom Tjaarda, who also worked for Pininfarina. A couple of his other designs were the beautiful little Fiat 124 Spider and the Corvette Rondine concept.
I would rather pull the engine than risk damaging driveline by dragging any car with a seized engine.
And, it's a 351 Cleveland. Not exactly hard to find.
I'd like to see a 427FE stuffed in like in a Ford GT@@scottimusgarrett15
I agree. Those transaxles are fragile and expensive to repair. Reversing hard torque on that reverse gear can result in damage as I have seen before.
@@scottimusgarrett15 Damaging the siezed engine is not the issue, damaging the somewhat fragile, and now difficult to obtain spares, for the ZF transaxle is the concern.
Redline rebuild -- heck yeah.
I worked on a few of these in my career, lots of rust and overheating issues. Don't see many in this color, mostly red or yellow. I also recall one or two with Windsor engines. Supposedly Ford was out of Cleveland engines towards the end of the Ford/DeTomaso relationship
The problem for repair this car is the strees for the time and the final product.
It's hard work in a litle space. Grate job
Bingo. Some things can't be rushed.
Is it a 'special parts' Ford small block or just a garden variety?
If not numbers matching doesn't seem like such a big deal
This was kinda of a given though, wasn't it? The thing hasn't moved in 40yrs or so.. I wouldn't have even bothered testing any sort of method. Pull the hatch and pull the engine staight away.
Regardless, intersting to see what the outcome will be when you finally get in there and do a proper rebuild. 🙂
We've started plenty of cars that have sat for 40+ years. Heck, we've even driven a few. In our experience, sitting for a long time doesn't necessarily mean it's broken!
@@HagertyBit of a let-down not telling us how it worked out. At least pull a head and confirm if it froze.
They haven't pulled it apart yet,that is the next episode
That floor is the worst place to try to drag turn the engine. Super smooth and looks like water or oil coated in areas. Take it outside on some real cement.
I am from Germany and we would never work like this. When the engine do not turn dont use force it must be disassembled!
Sure, because you can speak for an entire country and every German is the same...🙄
@@andoletube exactly and know you found out the secret of "german engineering"
@@michaelleibrock967 German engineering is no better than any other country in the modern era. You make plenty of crap these days. The golden era of German engineering is long past.
@@andoletube yes this golden era is over.
Me personally I would have pulled the oil pan and you probably can see which cylinders has oil bypassing the rings down the Piston skirts. Then I would have loosened each rod cap and just lightly tapped up on the Pistons and see which ones were free.
It's not an iron pipe, it's a ferrous based tubular torque amplifier.
I've used part of my floor jack handle to amplify mine on occasion.
At the NY auto show , the year the Ford GT was being displayed , as soon as you walked in the convention center was a older man ,displaying his silver Pantera ! The rear hood open displaying and i kid you not it had a polished and chromed out shiny engine full blown 671? super charger with twin turbos feeding it ! Wow blew me totally away ! One of a kind monster ! These cars were fav;s of rock stars in the 80's ! Many of them crashed them driving drunk and or high !
Also guys, if ur gonna try and drag-spin a locked motor you need to get it rolling and dump the clutch...
Better doing it on tarmac too, rather than the polished concrete floor!
Agreed. Plus I don't think they tried bumping it on the starter right?
I got an MGB that had been sitting outside for years, and managed to get the seized engine to turn by jacking the car up, putting a pipe wrench on the driveline with a long cheater on it, then lowering the car. It actually ran after that!
Well, we know where this is going...Time-lapse engine rebuild! Thanks for the episode, everyone!✌️❤️🙂🇨🇦
Panteras have some australian history as well, after cleveland production stopped in the US de tomaso began using the australian built cleveland. The last of these beasts had bogan engines in them!. Glad to see that engine will get rebuilt.
You beat me to it was going to mention the later ones had Australian built engines,i read when ford Australia stopped building the 351 detomaso spoke with brock about supplying Holden V8’s but his asking price was several times what the Cleveland cost
35 years ago, a frind of mine's dad bought a Pantera, and we looked into getting a marine short or long block to build on. We also looked into getting a throttle body fuel injection system, tuneable by 4 potentiometers. Instead the original engine was tuned for racing by a "specialist" making it totally undriveable on the street.
Love the Pantera!!! Only car you don't wish you had a correctly located Ford distributor though. Great series. Davin, you're living my dreams!!!! Warm regards and best wishes!!!
Unfreeze the clutch from the flywheel and attempt to turn the engine again.
Great find. I absolutely LOVE Panteras
The time lapse where the guys are fading around is super cool. As a I loved these cars, never the Lamborghini. Thanks for saving this one.
Really? Trying to pull crank in reverse? Need to pull it forward in top gear for more advantageous mechanical advantage.
Always love these programs.
Thank you for sharing, always a pleasure watch your project, I learn a lot 👍👍👍👍
I love Panteras and I love Davin videos. This series is killer!
Is it just me that wonders why you would tow in reverse (the lowest ratio giving the engine the greatest mechanical advantage) instead of forward in 3rd or 4th or even 6th? I know these are senior guys, so I must be missing something?
16:30 i like how they replayed the same audio clip twice 😅
The pantera engines were The AUSTRALIAN 351 4V cleveland. Made in Australia.
It was not a mustang type 351.
It was the ford australia falcon GTHO engine that was the most potent 351 to cary the ford badge.
The panteras done excellent at le mans and ran the Aussie clevelands.
Bob Gliden said the ultimate 351 to build was the aussie engine.
This car is rusty and worth 100k restored. But would cost 50k to do it.
You can still buy new parts car still from italy. They were sold through lincoln dealers. Beautifull car
Steve in Australia
Probably for the best anyway. The new owner will have the peace of mind of a freshened engine at the least.
Additional peace of mind comes from knowing (and therefore, being able to *trust* ) the fella doing the rebuild.
Lord knows, old cars give you plenty of other things to spend your time on even if they're running/driving, eh?
- Ed on the Ridge
Ford 1, Barn Find crew 0. Let the tear down begin.
Again, very excited to see the next episode.
Oye, we're left hanging with the Pantera progress? Really anxious to see the outcome. My dad worked at Ford and had access to many models, including a Pantera in '72, and brought it home for a week. I was 8 at the time and was pumped just looking at it. Knick-knacks on the mantle rattled when he pulled up the driveway. Going for a ride left me laughing and eyes big as saucers. It truly was an incredible experience!
Okay, so there are some setbacks but that is what comes with barn finds. You have one heck of a Pantera there for sure. At least it's mechanical and not bodywork, LOL. I'm getting popcorn ready for the future episodes! 🙂
Yes!!!
Well actually no - not great for Brian, it would have been better for him if it started... But great for us! In the end probably great for Brian as well, as he'll get some great time working on his car.
Looking forward to seeing this taken apart!
Certainly one of the coolest car designs in history, and, historic collaborations. I am looking forward to watching this rebuild.
Fortunately it's a Pantera, so engine parts won't be expensive unobtanium *unlike some other Italian cars you could mention*
Alejandro Detomaso was born in Argentina and died in Modena Italy. He founded the company De Tomaso Modena SpA and first created the stunning Ghia Vallelunga. Later on he went to work with Carroll Shelby in various projects but mainly to help him design an alternative to the Cobra capable of competing in a Can-Am race. After an altercation regarding failed deadlines and conflicts with the design, Shelby backed from the deal and went on to desing the Ford GT, Detomaso found the necessary backing from Carrozzeria Ghia to finish his vision, a hideous rocket-ish car with rear tire skirts named P70. Detomaso refined the desing (Thank god for Giorgetto Giugiaro) on the same P70 chasis and the Mangusta came about to "kill" the Shelby Cobra (The mongoose is the cobra's natural predator).
Changing the oil and spinning the oil pump rod sometimes breaks em free?
Acetone and ATF for a solvent. Plenty in each cylinder. Use a bar against the fly wheel teeth for more leverage.
Suggestion for your stuck wheels. Wrap a strap around the circumference of the tire. Hook your winch to the underside of the tire, pointing out the back, so as to prevent body damage, anchor the front of the car and reel in the winch. Should break it loose. ...... or just break it and make you quit wasting your time lol
Sorta the opposite of the selfwinching techniques we learned in vehicle recovery school in the Army.
Have done several stuck motors.seafoam deep creep works really well. Let it soak then Let soak some more. Patience
amazing gentlemen thank you for this.
Im glad this episode didnt turn into an Mustie1 kinda start up episode...
1 bank whitout plugs for some time that enginge has to go on a stand and get a better life!
A Pantera with a toasted small block is the perfect opportunity to replace said small block with a BOSS 429.
"Get your hands dirty." Tomorrow I'm buying an '11 Boxster Spyder that needs all the routine maint done, along with a polish and detail. Can't wait.
Pour some diesel into the cylinder until it is full. Let it set long enough to drain thru. Then try to urn it over.
Before even watching this video (I'm 2:24 into it) I'll tell you Pantera's are nothing but trouble! I knew a guy that owned one back in the 70's and he could barely keep it running. And he owned a transmission shop and knew his way around cars! Good luck trying to get an old one starting much less a new one......
Great effort in trying to turn that 351 Cleveland over...you left no stone unturned in doing so, now on to the Rebuild!
That's the best way to get to know your classic car.
Gotta love the DeTomaso Pantera brother
It’s Kroil, The Creeping Oil, it will find its way everywhere regardless where you spray it. I have seen it creep up hill/manifold.
Buying or restoring a Pantera is a dream of mine! Watching it be done by this awesome crew is the next best thing.
local dealer had one here when I was in high school ,man I loved that car, always thought the engine came out from the bottom
Ive seen an engine unceased by an old timer. He filled the cylinders with paraffin and left it overnight.
Very cool, so is the motor staying factory true? Aluminum heads? .020 over?
FYI a vehicle needs to be in high gear and pulled from the front to break a motor loose. Your 'park gears' like reverse or low won't work. They keep the motor from spinning over.
Rear trunk is missing. They had a big tub that dropped in and was fastened at the edges. I know the 74's had it because I replaced a transmission on one of those.