Edit: one little note; I forgot to mention that Dimensional Corridor doesn't work if the Monolith teleported in that turn, only if it started on the table. So it doesn't work with the phasing, but you can Ingress it etc. Thanks for teleporting in to watch! Get an Ides of March ticket before you phase out: treasuretrovekeep.com/ides-of-march
I don't understand-- the highlighted rules text you cited is specifically about units with rules that say they have to arrive the next turn. But as you said, Hypercrypt doesn't say that-- it allows you to leave them in reserves. So I'm not understanding what the rule interaction is that lets you arrive from deep strike on turn 1? Similarly, does putting a unit with Deep Strike off of the table and into strategic reserve with a redeploy ability have the same effect?
Every time I think I understand the rules, a monkey wrench gets thrown into my machine brain. Edit: The stratagem that lets a unit charge after teleporting to a monolith says the monolith has to start the turn on the battlefield. So you can't deepstrike a monolith, teleport to it and then charge. It would have to survive a turn to be able to do that.
I might be reading this wrong, but doesn't Dimensional Corridor specify that the Monolith must start the turn on the battlefield to be a valid target of the strat? Therefore no Monolith arriving from deep strike would be able to teleport a unit and then allow it to charge.
@@jonathanhacker8225 Not necessarily true, sometimes its good to lock down an area with a monolith, or it gets engaged by something unexpectedly, which makes it great to use the eternity gate and charge.
Hey I think you missed the update to the rules commentary: Arriving from Strategic Reserves in the First Battle Round: Abilities that allow units to be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase using the Strategic Reserves rules treat the current battle round number as being one higher than it actually is in the first battle round only, unless explicitly stated otherwise.
I'm just starting in the game (I'm watching this video because I'm planning to pick up my first Necrons this weekend), so bear with me here. Does this just replace that "can't arrive in the first battle round" (shown in the vid at 4:29)? Or does the fact that it says "abilities" mean that it needs to be something specific that lets you place, like a Monolith or the stratagem, while not letting you use the normal "place at the edge of the board"?
@@lukeharris2853 only units with the deep strike ability comes in via deep strike, the other units use the rules for strategic reserves. But with the rules commentary it just basically clarifies that all units can come in turn 1 if they went second and used Hyperphasing and not just deep strike units.
But nothing in the hypercrypt rule says that they have to arrive in the next turn. That rule is a clarification for any abilities that explicitly instruct the unit to arrive from strategic reserves in the first turn, which would previously break the game as the strat reserves rules don't state any arrival rules for coming in during the first turn
the hyperphase monolith. eternity gate and charge with strat wont work as you pick up the monolith in your opponents turn so it didnt "start the turn on the battlefield". which is why ive started advancing my monoliths... unless theres a reason i cant i havent seen yet.
This is all dancing around. The very Leviathan rule that prevents Reserve units from arriving Turn 1 is the SAME rule that allows Hypercrypt and Eternity Gate units to arrive Turn 1 if the opponent went first. Step 8 Declare Battle Formations ... Reserves units cannot arrive the first battle round and any Strategic Reserves of Reserves units that have not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round count as having been destroyed, as do any units embarked within them ---> THIS PART: (this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserves after the first battle round has started). The "this" applies to units put into Reserves not being destroyed after round 3 ends AND it applies to the restriction of not being able to arrive Turn 1. Basically, the restriction on arriving Turn 1 doesn't apply to units that later enter Reserves. This means that if you go second, you can Hyperphase and Eternity Gate Turn 1.
This is superseded by the Leviathan tournament companion: "Players now set up objective markers on the battlefield. Each Deployment card’s deployment map will show players how many objective markers to set up and where each should be placed. In Leviathan Tournament Missions, models can end any type of move on top of an objective marker."
Well, superseded if you're playing Leviathan tournament matches I suppose, which I imagine in a competitive analysis video like this is the focus. You're right that in a non-tournament game, you can't screen Cosmic Precision like that.
@@andrewmatthews4946 I have no idea what relevance that holds or how often or how important that is but thanks for the lay outs I googled it out still don’t know if this mode of play is used a lot
@@pheonixthedarkflame8249leviathan is literally the only mission pack that exists right now, so if you're playing a competitive format, it's literally 100% of games lol
I have played some games into this combo with my tyranids and it’s just unstoppable. Turn 1 or 2 the latest you have an impossible to kill monolith in your lines, that’s killing everything that he sees. You can only screen it for so long when immortals can deep strike 3” away and delete your squishy screeners.
How would this update to the rules commentary not allow arrival turn 1 from strategic reserves? “Arriving from Strategic Reserves in the First Battle Round: Abilities that allow units to be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase using the Strategic Reserves rules treat the current battle round number as being one higher than it actually is in the first battle round only, unless explicitly stated otherwise.”
I dont get the reasoning why it works in the first turn either. No ability mentioned states that a unit can be set up in the first round as far as I understand. So the second part of "treating the round number higher" would not trigger.
@@apexapey "Abilities that allow units to be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second OR third Movement phase using the Strategic Reserves rules". the OR in the rule means if you can arrive in any of the rounds, the second part would trigger
@justinking1275 okay, but by that logic, how does that not just apply to literally every unit in the game with deep strike? That's like saying "my inceptors have an ability that lets them set up from reserves on turn 2, therefore the ability treats it as being 1 turn higher than it actually is, so I can deep strike turn 1"
Dang bro, thanks a ton for breaking down all of those mechanics, along with all the errata modifications and rules interactions. I like that the character Necron lets a squad do what our interceptors do. It's like gawl, man. Get your own mechanics. 😀
Correct me if i am wrong but rules as written units that arrive from deepstrike turn 1 are immediately destroyed. The leviathan card rule is all one sentence so contains a double negative when applying the bracket exception. Units that start on the board and then move into deepstrike can arrive turn 1 AND are destroyed (the 'does not apply' exception applies to both parts of sentence)
@TacticalTortoise yes the wording says the rules do not apply. As it is one sentence on the card, all of the statement is negated. So units can arrive and are destroyed. Only a full stop in the sentence would stop the double negation
first time playing this, we had long research and discusions about hyperphasing starsteles. you have to search and combine a lot rules and explanations to come to the unsure conclusion that starsteles are not alloud to hyperphase. my thinking is that the rules of the dynasty doesnt state any exluding, says "all units" , .... still a bit grumpy about it. was fun picking up the stones and landing them elswhere to help out infantry near objective markers
I am a Necron player and have always felt that the rules as intended would be clarified and GW would just blanket disallow putting units from off board on the board in turn 1. It seems like this is still a muddy area after the latest data slate. Is my understanding correct? 1) I can hyperphase bottom of turn one only with deep strike and, 2) I can’t use cosmic precision on that unit in turn 1.
Ok guys, I have a question here about the Monoliths ability of the Eternity Gate. Can I pick up a unit without deep strike turn one and place it wholly within 6 of this Monolith? On the one hand, I put this unit in reserves and it cannot arrive back on the battlefield in turn one. So it should have to remain in reserves. On the other hand, the Eternity Gate rule sais "That unit is then set up anywhere on the battlefield that is wholly within 6" of this model". For me, this is somewhat of a grey zone. Please give me your opinions with the reasons, why you thinkn that is.
Am I able to deep strike my turn one if I go first. I think you can because I have watched your video but my friend doesn’t believe me. Can you help me convince him
@@TacticalTortoise ok so I have been in the trenches trying to figure out these rules. Nobody thinks I am right. If I go first, am I able to use deep strike to come onto the table turn one. If I go first?
Hi, I'm just putting this here for clarification (though I may be wrong, but I have had some practice with Hypercrypt before and largely it was accepted like this but the play groups I've been in.) In essence when you select your detachment, it marks all (or most) of your Necron units with the keyword Hyperphase, which gives you the Hyperphase ability. If your opponent ends their turn, you can pick up a unit put into strategic reserves, you can then bring them down next turn (barring some weird caveats). When you bring down a unit that enters the Hypercrypt version of strategic reserves, they arrive using Hyperphasing, which still deploys under strategic reserves conditions (barring the turn order: I.E no turn one arrival). The general wording says Hyperphasing does not count against your current strategic reserves count, as it is a separate version. Like a mirror version, it's largely the same as strategic reserves, but has some subtle differences. Honestly this is one of the most confusing things possible they could have worded it as.
I think you skipped over the part in the leviathan mission deck that says the turn 1 restriction doesn't apply to models that start the game on the table. your whole video is incorrect, if playing leviathan.
You should prolly rewatch - that clause is exactly why units with DS can hypherphase R1. The issue is that units without DS have to Strategic Reserve, which they are explicitly prevented from doing so by the core rules (and also GW's internal event FAQs).
@@TacticalTortoise "(this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserves after the first battle round has started)." it literally says it does not apply to strategic reserves units. Did GW post their internal FAQ on community? I'd be interested to read it!
Speaking of blue screening, i stuill don´t fully understand the difference between reserve and stratigic reserve. If someone could enlighten me in a simple way with an example, that´d be great. Because, everytime i think i got it, something confusing is happening.
Only abilities which specifically say "set up in the next movement phase" or " set up in your opponents next movement phase" or strats like cosmic precision and orbital teleportarium allow you to set up on turn1 from reserves. You have to have deep strike. Otherwise you can't.
It depends what convention you are playing with. WTC (mainly use across europe except UK) stated that Cosmic Precision can be use T1 on a non deepstrike unit that have hyperphasing
Hey, just a point about objectives, when you jumped into TTS. You "cannot end a move on top of an objective marker", so you couldn't screen out an objective with one terminator like that.
@TacticalTortoise Ah, well, that's what I get for not owning a mission pack 😂. Why do they change things like that? Same with deep strike in the first turn. Should probably just be in the core rules
About deep strike - by the rulebook deep strike units go into reserves, not strategic reserves. 'normal' reserves does not have a turn limit by the rulebook
It does in basically every mission format tho; assuming that you enter reserves in the battle formations step. They're limited from coming in BR1 and on BR4+.
Never ever make fun out of Iulius Caesar again. If you are disrespecting this guy you are just disrespecting yourself. He would win every goddamn Warhammer tournament he would start in.
Edit: one little note; I forgot to mention that Dimensional Corridor doesn't work if the Monolith teleported in that turn, only if it started on the table. So it doesn't work with the phasing, but you can Ingress it etc.
Thanks for teleporting in to watch! Get an Ides of March ticket before you phase out: treasuretrovekeep.com/ides-of-march
I don't understand-- the highlighted rules text you cited is specifically about units with rules that say they have to arrive the next turn. But as you said, Hypercrypt doesn't say that-- it allows you to leave them in reserves.
So I'm not understanding what the rule interaction is that lets you arrive from deep strike on turn 1?
Similarly, does putting a unit with Deep Strike off of the table and into strategic reserve with a redeploy ability have the same effect?
20 minutes of basking on this glorious Rudolph nose and not hearing a single word.
Worth it
Santa is so lucky to have me
Every time I think I understand the rules, a monkey wrench gets thrown into my machine brain.
Edit: The stratagem that lets a unit charge after teleporting to a monolith says the monolith has to start the turn on the battlefield. So you can't deepstrike a monolith, teleport to it and then charge. It would have to survive a turn to be able to do that.
Nah, it's not your foult, monkeys are idiots who write such complex rules without clearly letting u know how rules work.
I might be reading this wrong, but doesn't Dimensional Corridor specify that the Monolith must start the turn on the battlefield to be a valid target of the strat? Therefore no Monolith arriving from deep strike would be able to teleport a unit and then allow it to charge.
Basically kills that strategy as Monolith rarely wants to stay in place.
@@jonathanhacker8225 Not necessarily true, sometimes its good to lock down an area with a monolith, or it gets engaged by something unexpectedly, which makes it great to use the eternity gate and charge.
Hey I think you missed the update to the rules commentary:
Arriving from Strategic Reserves in the First Battle Round: Abilities
that allow units to be set up in the Reinforcements step of your
first, second or third Movement phase using the Strategic Reserves
rules treat the current battle round number as being one higher
than it actually is in the first battle round only, unless explicitly
stated otherwise.
I'm just starting in the game (I'm watching this video because I'm planning to pick up my first Necrons this weekend), so bear with me here. Does this just replace that "can't arrive in the first battle round" (shown in the vid at 4:29)? Or does the fact that it says "abilities" mean that it needs to be something specific that lets you place, like a Monolith or the stratagem, while not letting you use the normal "place at the edge of the board"?
@@Bobberation it basically means that hypercrypt works in all turns. So half the video is wrong lol
we dont use any abilitys to arrive from strat reserve though? we come down with deep strike @@chemonized
@@lukeharris2853 only units with the deep strike ability comes in via deep strike, the other units use the rules for strategic reserves. But with the rules commentary it just basically clarifies that all units can come in turn 1 if they went second and used Hyperphasing and not just deep strike units.
But nothing in the hypercrypt rule says that they have to arrive in the next turn. That rule is a clarification for any abilities that explicitly instruct the unit to arrive from strategic reserves in the first turn, which would previously break the game as the strat reserves rules don't state any arrival rules for coming in during the first turn
the hyperphase monolith. eternity gate and charge with strat wont work as you pick up the monolith in your opponents turn so it didnt "start the turn on the battlefield". which is why ive started advancing my monoliths... unless theres a reason i cant i havent seen yet.
This is all dancing around. The very Leviathan rule that prevents Reserve units from arriving Turn 1 is the SAME rule that allows Hypercrypt and Eternity Gate units to arrive Turn 1 if the opponent went first.
Step 8 Declare Battle Formations
...
Reserves units cannot arrive the first battle round and any Strategic Reserves of Reserves units that have not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round count as having been destroyed, as do any units embarked within them
---> THIS PART: (this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserves after the first battle round has started).
The "this" applies to units put into Reserves not being destroyed after round 3 ends AND it applies to the restriction of not being able to arrive Turn 1. Basically, the restriction on arriving Turn 1 doesn't apply to units that later enter Reserves. This means that if you go second, you can Hyperphase and Eternity Gate Turn 1.
I thought rules state you can’t place models on the objective directly. Would the 40mm base screening still work?
It’s all a bit poorly defined but in Leviathan Tournament games you can end a move on top of an objective, rather than play around it.
No model can be on the objective marker 12:51
The rules state this to specifically not let you screen things like the hypercrypt ability
This is superseded by the Leviathan tournament companion:
"Players now set up objective markers on the battlefield. Each Deployment card’s deployment map will show players how many objective markers to set up and where each should be placed. In Leviathan Tournament Missions, models can end any type of move on top of an objective marker."
Well, superseded if you're playing Leviathan tournament matches I suppose, which I imagine in a competitive analysis video like this is the focus. You're right that in a non-tournament game, you can't screen Cosmic Precision like that.
@@andrewmatthews4946 I have no idea what relevance that holds or how often or how important that is but thanks for the lay outs I googled it out still don’t know if this mode of play is used a lot
@@pheonixthedarkflame8249leviathan is literally the only mission pack that exists right now, so if you're playing a competitive format, it's literally 100% of games lol
I have played some games into this combo with my tyranids and it’s just unstoppable.
Turn 1 or 2 the latest you have an impossible to kill monolith in your lines, that’s killing everything that he sees.
You can only screen it for so long when immortals can deep strike 3” away and delete your squishy screeners.
How would this update to the rules commentary not allow arrival turn 1 from strategic reserves? “Arriving from Strategic Reserves in the First Battle Round: Abilities that allow units to be set up in the Reinforcements step of your
first, second or third Movement phase using the Strategic Reserves rules treat the current battle round number as being one higher
than it actually is in the first battle round only, unless explicitly stated otherwise.”
I dont get the reasoning why it works in the first turn either. No ability mentioned states that a unit can be set up in the first round as far as I understand. So the second part of "treating the round number higher" would not trigger.
@@apexapey "Abilities that allow units to be set up in the Reinforcements step of your
first, second OR third Movement phase using the Strategic Reserves rules". the OR in the rule means if you can arrive in any of the rounds, the second part would trigger
yup it actually means that the hypercrypt ability works on all units in first turn and not just things that have deep strike
@justinking1275 okay, but by that logic, how does that not just apply to literally every unit in the game with deep strike? That's like saying "my inceptors have an ability that lets them set up from reserves on turn 2, therefore the ability treats it as being 1 turn higher than it actually is, so I can deep strike turn 1"
Dang bro, thanks a ton for breaking down all of those mechanics, along with all the errata modifications and rules interactions.
I like that the character Necron lets a squad do what our interceptors do. It's like gawl, man. Get your own mechanics. 😀
Correct me if i am wrong but rules as written units that arrive from deepstrike turn 1 are immediately destroyed. The leviathan card rule is all one sentence so contains a double negative when applying the bracket exception. Units that start on the board and then move into deepstrike can arrive turn 1 AND are destroyed (the 'does not apply' exception applies to both parts of sentence)
The Leviathan rule explicitly only applies to units not arriving by the third Battle round.
@TacticalTortoise yes the wording says the rules do not apply. As it is one sentence on the card, all of the statement is negated. So units can arrive and are destroyed. Only a full stop in the sentence would stop the double negation
You can't hold me down Trev!
first time playing this, we had long research and discusions about hyperphasing starsteles. you have to search and combine a lot rules and explanations to come to the unsure conclusion that starsteles are not alloud to hyperphase. my thinking is that the rules of the dynasty doesnt state any exluding, says "all units" , .... still a bit grumpy about it. was fun picking up the stones and landing them elswhere to help out infantry near objective markers
*allowed 🤦🤦
I also don't see why you wouldn't be able to
After more looking and discussing it with local GW: allowed with vehicle keyword 🎉
I am a Necron player and have always felt that the rules as intended would be clarified and GW would just blanket disallow putting units from off board on the board in turn 1. It seems like this is still a muddy area after the latest data slate. Is my understanding correct?
1) I can hyperphase bottom of turn one only with deep strike and,
2) I can’t use cosmic precision on that unit in turn 1.
also, you are not limited to coming in by turn three. not in the reserves or strategic reserve rules
Just wanted to check... But didn't they change 10th to state units(models) can move through but not end on an objective marker?
Not in Leviathan games - that rule is discounted.
Ok guys, I have a question here about the Monoliths ability of the Eternity Gate. Can I pick up a unit without deep strike turn one and place it wholly within 6 of this Monolith?
On the one hand, I put this unit in reserves and it cannot arrive back on the battlefield in turn one. So it should have to remain in reserves. On the other hand, the Eternity Gate rule sais "That unit is then set up anywhere on the battlefield that is wholly within 6" of this model". For me, this is somewhat of a grey zone. Please give me your opinions with the reasons, why you thinkn that is.
11:00 isn’t that the old monolith stat line from before the codex?
10:39 lol
it was also backwards, not that it matters.
Am I able to deep strike my turn one if I go first. I think you can because I have watched your video but my friend doesn’t believe me. Can you help me convince him
You can if you use Hyperphasing
Units that are put in reserve during Battle Formations cannot (in basically every format).
@@TacticalTortoise ok so I have been in the trenches trying to figure out these rules. Nobody thinks I am right. If I go first, am I able to use deep strike to come onto the table turn one. If I go first?
@@HarryBignoodleno... that is literally the opposite of what he just said.
@@jamesloder8652 lies
Can someone explain what is "arriving using hyperphasing ability"? How can i arive using it?
You can't. It's just poor rules writing from GW.
Hi, I'm just putting this here for clarification (though I may be wrong, but I have had some practice with Hypercrypt before and largely it was accepted like this but the play groups I've been in.) In essence when you select your detachment, it marks all (or most) of your Necron units with the keyword Hyperphase, which gives you the Hyperphase ability. If your opponent ends their turn, you can pick up a unit put into strategic reserves, you can then bring them down next turn (barring some weird caveats). When you bring down a unit that enters the Hypercrypt version of strategic reserves, they arrive using Hyperphasing, which still deploys under strategic reserves conditions (barring the turn order: I.E no turn one arrival). The general wording says Hyperphasing does not count against your current strategic reserves count, as it is a separate version. Like a mirror version, it's largely the same as strategic reserves, but has some subtle differences. Honestly this is one of the most confusing things possible they could have worded it as.
I think you skipped over the part in the leviathan mission deck that says the turn 1 restriction doesn't apply to models that start the game on the table. your whole video is incorrect, if playing leviathan.
You should prolly rewatch - that clause is exactly why units with DS can hypherphase R1.
The issue is that units without DS have to Strategic Reserve, which they are explicitly prevented from doing so by the core rules (and also GW's internal event FAQs).
@@TacticalTortoise "(this does not apply to units that are placed into Strategic Reserves after the first battle round has started)."
it literally says it does not apply to strategic reserves units.
Did GW post their internal FAQ on community? I'd be interested to read it!
Speaking of blue screening, i stuill don´t fully understand the difference between reserve and stratigic reserve. If someone could enlighten me in a simple way with an example, that´d be great. Because, everytime i think i got it, something confusing is happening.
Only abilities which specifically say "set up in the next movement phase" or " set up in your opponents next movement phase" or strats like cosmic precision and orbital teleportarium allow you to set up on turn1 from reserves. You have to have deep strike.
Otherwise you can't.
It depends what convention you are playing with. WTC (mainly use across europe except UK) stated that Cosmic Precision can be use T1 on a non deepstrike unit that have hyperphasing
Hey, just a point about objectives, when you jumped into TTS. You "cannot end a move on top of an objective marker", so you couldn't screen out an objective with one terminator like that.
Not in Leviathan games - that rule is discounted.
@TacticalTortoise Ah, well, that's what I get for not owning a mission pack 😂. Why do they change things like that? Same with deep strike in the first turn. Should probably just be in the core rules
About deep strike - by the rulebook deep strike units go into reserves, not strategic reserves. 'normal' reserves does not have a turn limit by the rulebook
It does in basically every mission format tho; assuming that you enter reserves in the battle formations step.
They're limited from coming in BR1 and on BR4+.
Thanks Trevy! That was very enlightning!
Never ever make fun out of Iulius Caesar again. If you are disrespecting this guy you are just disrespecting yourself. He would win every goddamn Warhammer tournament he would start in.
Nah he'd play with double walls of fortifications and be unable to control objectives with their 0 OC
@@TacticalTortoise Nah, he is the reason why fortifications got nerfed so hard because in the early pre-alpha of the game it was the meta
Et tu Bruté 🤘
Stay off the booze man. The nose is bleeding internally. 😢.
I don't actually drink much - it's just an unfortunate combo of sensitive skin and mild rosacea. Pretty temperature dependant too.
can the guy who wrote necrons rules be sent over to the dark angels department and rewrite their codex pls?
First!