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strange that the French intermarried with Native women and had great relationships with the tribes as the Anglish and Americans raped and killed Native women, the Manitoba Métis nations tell a different story then yours and more likely the Anglo Americans were brutal to Native women raping and massacring them even PARADING WITH FEMALE BODYPART TROUGH DENVER AFTER HAVING MASSACRED NATIVE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
@HansJuergBangerter From what I read, the celebration in Denver happened after the Sand Creek massacre, which happened where the fictional story "Dances With Wolves" took place
There were many historical errors in the movie, and not just about Johnson, but the lack of the typical stupid Hollywood dialogue is endearing to many, including me. However, scalping was not just the shaving of the victim's head as with Del Queue. Typically, the skin was removed with the ears and even the chin. Few survived scalping.
Your video provided a much needed context of the movie. The struggles of the various tribes are still active today with getting along with each other as evidenced by their videos. This video made me appreciate the movie more.
I watched this movie for 2 weeks, Straight. When 11 yrs old. Me & my brother 10yrs old, snuck into a drive in theater- through a rain run off gap between fence & pavement. Turning up the speakers close to us. We also watched Posieden adventure. Mom knew we were safe. Even though we crossed an ankle deep creek to get there. Loved both movies. The bear in cabin part was great. We were living in Knoxville TN. Knew had to be a basis for the movie, Thank you for the information. Since it was Mid '73 when seen it.
@Axgoodofdunemaul Without knowing the area, I'd guess the range was named after real swans, but we'd have to investigate the ecology and history of the place to be sure
The “Flathead” tribe are the Bitterroot Salish, and now call the Flathead Reservation home, in the Flathead Valley of the Mission Mountains in NW Montana. They consolidated with Kootenai, in the Mission Valley, and the Pend d’Oreille , to the west. They all form the Consolidated Salish Kootenai Tribes (CSKT), which administers the reservation. I live on the Flathead Reservation and can confirm: their young women are drop-dead gorgeous. John Johnston got himself quite a catch.
@@chaptersofwisdom: Thank you for your good wishes. CSKT I a real success story. A CSKT college, founded in 1980 or so, offers 4-year degrees in Wildlife Sciences, Forestry, Fisheries Management, Civil Engineering and Environmental Engineering, all of which serve tribal industries. The tribes own and operate the Flathead Lake Spillway and sell the electricity generated. All the associated infrastructure is owned by the tribe, including an electric utility company. The tribe has sponsored law students who have returned to practice on behalf of the tribe. There are tribal physicians and nurses who work in tribal health clinics. Perhaps most importantly, the shared language has been formulated and a written language created, which is now taught in schools, keeping the culture alive and thriving. Many Anglos live on the reservation, own property and have children educated in those same schools. We are all working together!!
I have hunted near the Flathead Reservation, that tribe actually does respect the game in the area. So many other reservations have desimated their wildlife. Not the Flatheads. Beautiful people.
@@christiandunn9715 Spent 10 years with local southwest Arizona tribes. Was invited to dance ceremonial for five years. Of this honor I am still grateful. What is undocumented or even verbally discussed is that by far the largest grouping of Indigenous American people is in the LA area. They have managed to get along with each other and have informally created new traditions as a grouping.
If you read the book, at the time of this incident, Johnston’s cabin was in southern Wyoming/ northern Colorado. The war party caught her at this cabin. His vengeance took place over years and many mountain ranges.
@@trappenweisseguy27 I did a search on Delle Bolton and some sites say she was born in Santa Monica, California, where in another says she was born in NYC and others still simply say she was born in the USA. Weird.
If you watched the movie he was not trapping, he had led a white recue group to a stranded wagon train. They passed through one of the Indian grave yards and this was the reason they killed his wife
lol...I really hope your being facitious right now. Because that statement says. " you and the written documentation of the time, is wrong because the movie said it happened like this. " smh
This thing about graveyards, desecration of, "this is our land" and such is a modern liberal view of history, and white people making movies about indians. I highly doubt the crows got upset about an old burial area. I think this video is much more likely the truth. A lone, nice looking woman in the wild, no one around, lots of good stuff to steal, what's not to understand? Any day, any time in history this same scenario as happend millions of times. Now, name me one time a mongol nation got upset because a muslim, hindu, foreigner's horse walked across a mogol grave on the steppes.
I still watch this from time to time….knowing it did have a historic foundation. Life was hard back then…and people were tough…they had to be to survive. I salute to our pioneer ancestors.
My grandmother is buried in Darby… they homesteaded there in her youth but froze out and moved on further west… but she left it in her will she wanted to be buried in Darby her favorite place on earth
In the movie starring Robert Redford, it showed him killing about 30 Crow indians over the next several years , Hollywood toned it down . In reality historians think it was closer to 300 . The crow finally made some kind of peace agreement with Johnston .
@NeilalanBrown-zc4qb According to the book "Crow Killer", JJ offered peace after the 20 were dispatched. Crazy Woman was involved. I'll publish a video about it later
Just a fun fact. Did you know that in the early days of television, Indian people could not play Indians because they could not be members of the screen actors guild, and in those old westerns the Indians we're played by Italians. There are Italian actors who made a good living playing the Indians. This is just one of many stories told to me by Shaman Cheif Kitpou in his teepee, as we sat around in a circle sitting on bear rugs. This was back in the 70's.
@WheezinGeezerTV I knew the "crying Indian" from the "Keep American Beautiful" commercial was an Italian-American actor, but not about the SAG. I guess that's old-school representation where an actor is expected to fairly represent a character without exactly matching the race. Thanks for the info
That's where the Indian with a headband started.. Italians heads wouldn't keep the wigs on so they ties a leather band on and boom another Hollywood stereotype born on screen lol😊
Iron Eyes Cody being the most famous.Appeared in numerous Westerns in minor roles.A major role in "Grayeagle",alongside Ben Johnson,Alex Cord & Lana Wood.
Eagle eye from the old pollution commercials was also Italian not native but he lived are n breathed his role as iron eyes eagle eyes .can't remember but they had his teepee on pickers
I’ve been reading the book “Crow Killer.”….and Johnston was an amazing man, as were all of those early mountain men. It was a tough life, with tough rules, and tough people. It is amazing how far they travelled back and forth, and what they accomplished.
Johnson was also called “liver eating Johnson”. The reason was his feud with the crow over his wife’s death made him a target of the crow. One time they had him outnumbered and he had shot a crow warrior who wasn’t yet dead. He knew the crow were a very superstitious people and in a desperate act to save himself he took his knife, and while the rest of the crow looked on he cut open the dying crow warrior and tore out his liver and started to eat it which terrified the crow so much they fled. After that when he would kill a crow warrior he’d take out the liver and eat part of it raw and leave it for the rest to find. That became the thing he was infamous for and it not only instilled fear in the crow, but also a deep hatred that drove the crow to try to kill him. What most people don’t know is that Johnson didn’t die in the mountains, but in a old folks home in Maine I think. It might have been New Hampshire I’m not quite sure since I first read his biography many years ago. I don’t know if it’s still in print but as I recall it was called “the life of liver eating Johnson”. A good but frightening read of hatred and revenge. Also the biography of Juan Garcia who was a mountain man who married a beautiful young Blackfoot woman who he bought and there were photos of them. I remember seeing the photo of Garcia and her and he was a dirty ugly man, and I literally couldn’t take my eyes off of this young woman who was so stunningly beautiful she’d be a raven haired beauty even by todays standards and that’s her pure natural beauty. I looked at her and could only imagine how repulsed she must have been to submit her body to a filthy ugly man like Garcia. In the photo her long black hair down to her lower back made me feel a real sense of sadness that such a beautiful creature as she was would be sold to someone like him. The sadness in her beautiful black eyes was so moving I kept that photo for forty years.
@chriswilliams5982 That's a lot of good information that was (mostly) not in the book "Crow Killer" ... I'd have to read the intro again. Thanks for sharing!
@@chaptersofwisdom your welcome. Some of the scenes in the movie are accurate. As I recall after he found his wife raped and murdered he did in fact track the crow and found them camping. According to the “liver eating Johnson” book he killed several before they scattered. There was also a story about him and Jim Bridger who was visiting him in a cabin that backed up to a cliff Johnson had built with an escape route out the back into a ravine. They were baking biscuits when suddenly about forty crow attacked the cabin. According to the account from Bridger Johnson poisoned the biscuits with strychnine and they escaped out the back. Three days later they returned and found over twenty dead crow all over the property. They had eaten the biscuits and it killed them. He eventually left the mountains and somehow ended up back east apparently where he was born and died there because the crow were more and more determined to kill him. Hope this helps if you want to do more research. I remember when the film came out and I saw it and wondered how many people knew the truth about him. On and the killing of his wife was in fact because he trespassed on sacred burial ground of the crow. As I remember it had nothing to do with leading a rescue party. He just for some reason violated sacred ground.
@chriswilliams5982 The story about the biscuits is loosely tied to Crazy Woman which I'll talk about in a few more videos (scheduled to publish in March and April). Also found a sample of "The Never-Ending Lives of Liver-Eating Johnson" on Google Books, which would be interesting to compare to "Crow Killer":
@@chaptersofwisdom great! It’s been so long since I read the book I may very well have confused things. I’ll be looking forward to seeing more that might refresh my memory on it.
Do you have a link or any books on this mountain man named Juan Garcia? I can't seem to find anything online about him or any photos of him and his wife.
A fine commentary the details I was unaware of. I saw the movie in the Spring of 1973 and it had a lasting affect on me, as a troubled 18 year old. It spurred me to want to see the Northwestern territory, and I began acquiring camping gear. I even bought a 50 caliber muzzle loader, that I still have to this day. A friend and I attended the World's Fair in Spokane by driving across the country, and we camped in territory around the story line places. People would talk to us about the Liver Eating Johnson history of the area, as it was freshened by the event of the movie. Such was common knowledge in that territory, but that was 50 years ago.
@johnshields9110 Thanks for sharing those great stories. In addition to Spokane, what cities did you find people are interested in the Liver Eating Johnson history of the area? I figured Helena would be a good source too
I hit the bar in Browing Montana one morning and there were Flathead tribe members laying on the floor and band stage passed out. Went to the bar and was surrounded and had a knife pulled on me and my life threatened if I didn’t buy them some drinks. I’m a stone cold alcoholic is why I was there in the first place and would have bought them drinks without all of that. The pot holes in the street were the worst part. A few years later I was in treatment with a few of them in Great Falls. Good guys as far as I’m concerned.
@jimmycain8669 Sounds like a sad decline that is all too common (people, towns, tribes). I'm glad you didn't get hurt and hope your recovery is successful
@jayleeper1512 There was a time when some Native Americans thought the white settlers and soldiers were just another tribe they could drive back. Others took the side that gave them the advantage. It happened in New England, too
@@chaptersofwisdom that is true. The Crows were concerned that the other tribes were out to take their territory so the aligned with the white soldiers.
FYI. Swan was an awesome young woman. A great friend and companion. If anything was to touch or harm Swan, my revenge would be marked in blood in the highest mountains. Amen
@@dingleberryxo7623 the only one who conquered my tribe was Charlemagne, emperor of the holy Roman empire, before and after that my tribesman did most of the killing I am afraid...and we do NOT live in reservations...
One of my favorite movies , over the years i have watched this movie at least 9 times. I heard they used to call him liver eating Johnson for consuming the liver of warriors he killed.
@BeachsideHank Not sure I agree about forgiveness. That's about redemption for the wrong-doer (assuming there is remorse) and healing for those who were wronged
@@chaptersofwisdom You rob someone of their dignity and personhood who has been grievously wronged and maligned with your casually dismissive attitude.
@@BeachsideHank To forgive is Divine. We were taught to forgive those who hurt us, by Jesus Christ Himself. There is nothing easy or shallow about forgiving. Nothing shallow or dismissive about forgiving a repentant sinner.
@@granmabern5283 Catholicism is to Christianity what pro wrestling is to Olympic sports, because when it comes down to exaggerated ceremonies, perfumed air, soothsaying chants and muttering in an important-sounding dead language whilst kissing Roman execution devices and wearing ghoulishly bizarre wizard costumes, nobody does Shaman-like theater better than the Catholics.
I will add that the Catholic Church has always said that it is sometimes necessary to go to war and also to use the death penalty in some cases. We aren’t supposed to do either out of vengeance, but rather to protect society and deter criminal activity.
I knew the flatheads were capable of being fierce when Dell Jew said if they took insult they would gut them from belly to eyeball with a dull deer antler.
I never knew the story of Jeremiah Johnson was actually true, thank you so much! And Redford kept the movie so accurate! A great story of love, Vengeance and life in the old west!!
Get over modern sensibilities and offending them. People for thousands of years did this and modern thinking is an abberration and will certainly be looked down upon in the future. Our society today is unsustainable in its lack of moral values and celebrates what is wrong and deplorable as beneficial. Not all nations are like us for good reason. Our reason for allowing what we have become is cowardice and seeking our own pleasure. We would rather be on the golf course, at the shopping center, watching a movie, planning for a year and then going to Disney World, all things that simply can't be disturbed in response to wrong doing. We are entertained to death, a dead society still walking.
You seem to be very bitter and disenchanted with modern society... I suggest you adapt to the times or you're going to have a sad, miserable rest of your life.
@cosmic_american Wise words. We can't focus too much on negativity. You can work on fixing your own corner of the world, or alternatively, as Aaron Clarey says, "Enjoy the decline."
@@american_cosmic I suppose that if I take your username literally, you are one heck of a busy American. Just kidding. Actually, I am a sad miserable person, it happens to some people when you retire and suddenly, your love of your life is suddenly taken down by her intestines separating from the rest of her digestive system but doctors can't find the reason, leave her in pain because her blood pressure had dropped and the meds she gets to help keep her blood pressure up some don't work with any pain killers, then 11 hours after we get there she codes, they as if I should revive her, I say yes, we do't have any kind of diagnosis maybe it can be fixed, then it takes them so long to do it that she is brain damaged, then the docs come back, do an MRI and finds out what's wrong and says she is almost at the last stages of death. So she dies and I am sad and miserable. Then it got worse, losing both daughters, having a home invasion where I was beaten so badly I was in the hospital and rehab for 37 days during which I had a financial disaster that I was unaware of because of brain injury, and then being dismissed from the hospital, I had lost one third of my retirement income. Want me to keep going? Now I was just diagnosed with spinal stenosis and can barely walk. But I am trying to put on a peachy attitude so that the upper half of my body which is still good, can enjoy what's left.
@Dontwlookatthis Really sorry to hear about all this. We have a family member who is struggling like that. Maybe the escapism into some good old movies helps. Keep sharing your thoughts
They made that commercial where the Chief Is looking all over the ground. Garbage, dirt, and debris tossed everywhere. The fading shot is on the Chief's face with a tear slowly running down his cheek.
I saw this movie for the first time about a year ago. He was a peaceful man, but when it came time for violence, he was all in. He was absolute death for those that tested him.
@cubefarmerhkc9105 The film cleaned up his behavior to make him more sympathetic, but yes, he did not seem like one of those who would kill people for no reason
What a movie. Not quite as accurate as the WWII story about Allied airmen in a german prison camp. Their slapstick humor, keen inventions and constant outwitting of the colonel warden and his bumbling sergeant are stuff of legend. Please showcase that documentary-like treasure. Give the reading bot a real heavy accent. For realism.
Werner Kemplerer agreed to play the part if he would be a bumbling fool.He and his parents were Jews who escaped from Germany in the 1930''s.Leon Askin also a Jew escaped from Austria played the general was a sergent in the Army Air Corps in WWII.
My Grandpa was Seminole. It would be amazing to see how the different Indian Tribes got along. I just watched Jeremiah Johnson after I purchased it. It do not know it was true.
@lukuscarter3563 That's interesting, the first episode of "Lawmen: Bass Reeves" showed a Seminole woman and son who moved to the frontier after the Civil War. Some tribes were allies and some tribes fought each other endlessly. The story of Jeremiah Johnson as we know it belongs somewhere between "kind of true in spirit" and "tall tales told by adventurers years later"
@tmcge3325 That scene was in the film but not "Crow Killer". I wonder if the scene was added to tone down the violence throughout the story where people were getting scalped just because they couldn't stop it
According to the book "Crow Killer," the Crazy Woman was a real person who had settled in the Wolf Tail Valley. After her children were killed and her husband taken captive, she remained in her cabin. Liver Eatin' Johnson, Del Gue and Anton Sepulveda were among the mountain men who "avenged" her. One popular story was that the mountain man known as "Hatchet Jack" was actually her husband who had gone insane after being scalped and tortured by the Blackfoot Indians when they took him away. It was known that Hatchet Jack had been scalped at some point in his life and that he was mentally unbalanced. Johnson refers to this when he tells the Crazy Woman that he cannot find any sign of her husband, but that he might return if he escaped from the Indians.
@randallstephens78 Thanks for the comment. Combining the text from "Crow Killer" and screenshots from the movie has caused some confusion, so I need to be clearer about the differences
@Roastcrackling The book "Crow Killer" has more good stories you could make a TV mini series about, though it might be hard to make liver-eater sympathetic to modern audiences
@chaddixon5725 Thanks for the compliment and constructive criticism! You're right about the pauses and I've learned to chop the last half-second off the end each audio section
@CassandrashadowcassMorrison They were all killers but there was friendship, honor and kindness among them too. It may be unfair to judge them from the safety of my warm office 🙂
For those who liked Jeremiah Johnson, here are other movies. "Mountain Men" starring Charlton Heston and Brian Keith. "Man In The Wilderness" with Richard Harris, similar to the Revenant. Both were about the mountain Man, Hugh Glass. Neither was accurate about the real life encounters of Hugh Glass. Also one to watch, but very hard to find, "Sacred Ground" with Jack Elam. Last but not least is The full series of "The Life And Times Of Grizzly Adams" Starring Dan Hagerty and Denver Pyle." Both seasons of this Wonderful TV series. Hours of entertainment at a great value. I bought a copy in Walmart!!!! Can also be found online. Hope this helps for those interested in mountain Man lore and life. All the best and may God bless.
Im glad we in times...i would rather not put my daughter up for sale...or trade like ever!!! However as a tribal and bloodline strong partial native ....i would love to put some of my inlaws up for sale or trade....😂
This is very different from the legends ive heard. From the legends its said Johnson spent the rest of his life hunting and ambushing Crow warriors wherever he found them. Hes said to have killed them , cut out their livers and cooked them. Thus earning him the name liver Johnson
It is what it is. Suffering is a part of life, even for the most pampered. I am not obligated to break any cycles if someone has injured me enough to warrant revenge.
Because he took a group of men through the flathead burial Ground that is sacred. So they punished Johnson by killing his family ! So Johnson declared war on the Flathead Tribe. It lasted for years and years. 😮😊
@michaelcopper7635 Yes, that's how the film presents the events. However I'd instead say the Crows declared war on him, after he took revenge on the men who attacked his family
The film and the book are complete fiction. John Johnston give many newspaper interviews in his life and the real story blows all the nonsensical fiction away.
Jeremiah Johnson was based on the novel Mountain man, published in 1965. It is not possible fiction it is listed as fiction (Fiction means NON TRUE, MADE UP STORY) there is no possible fiction here, it is confirmed by the author as fiction. Using a known location, or known tribes that lived in an area does not lend truth to the existence of Jeremiah Johnson or his wife. In the novel the main character is Augustus Barret. The mountain man and his native american wife raise a family and thrive in the mountains, though they do have occassional problems with the blackfoot tribe. Between the narrators claim of "possible fiction" and reading all the comments suggesting this is a true story, I just cant listen to this whole video.
@jenkor513 Thank you for your comment. This video and those other comments are based on the book "Crow Killer", which is categorized as a biography at my local library. Whether the stories are true or not is debated in the book's introduction (or prologue). I have not read "Mountain Man" but based on what you wrote, "Crow Killer" is a much closer story to "Jeremiah Johnson". Thanks again
If you'd like to watch "Jeremiah Johnson" again or read "Crow Killer", here are affiliate links to Amazon (as an Amazon Associate this channel earns from qualifying purchases). Thanks for your support!
- "Jeremiah Johnson" streaming video at amzn.to/3TSbUwZ or DVD at amzn.to/4aS15Sa
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strange that the French intermarried with Native women and had great relationships with the tribes as the Anglish and Americans raped and killed Native women, the Manitoba Métis nations tell a different story then yours and more likely the Anglo Americans were brutal to Native women raping and massacring them even PARADING WITH FEMALE BODYPART TROUGH DENVER AFTER HAVING MASSACRED NATIVE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.
@HansJuergBangerter From what I read, the celebration in Denver happened after the Sand Creek massacre, which happened where the fictional story "Dances With Wolves" took place
@@chaptersofwisdom Strange I thought they called Jeremiah Johnson the "Liver Eater". I could be wrong.
Well done Pilgrim . A fitting tribute to a "legendary" warrior and Mountain man . One of my favorite movies .
@jeffdanner653 Glad you like it, thanks!
I could not have said that any better💯😎
Head Native American looks like was from Palermo.
Ya right he couldn't even get the right TRIBE.
Sunday 2pm movie, with oriental food on the way. Cheers
One of my favourite movies, I've watched it multiple times.
There were many historical errors in the movie, and not just about Johnson, but the lack of the typical stupid Hollywood dialogue is endearing to many, including me. However, scalping was not just the shaving of the victim's head as with Del Queue. Typically, the skin was removed with the ears and even the chin. Few survived scalping.
Your video provided a much needed context of the movie. The struggles of the various tribes are still active today with getting along with each other as evidenced by their videos. This video made me appreciate the movie more.
@MakerBoyOldBoy Thanks, it's a great story, glad you liked the video
Great film ❤
Tough to play victim and be so hated at the same time.
That part of the movie was so tragic, upsetting that thirteen cowardly women killers got away.
That wasn't in the movie, it was in the book?
@indigotidebeeblebrox9978 Yes, that was in the book "Crow Killer", i'm not sure about "Mountain Man" (by Vardis Fisher)
@@chaptersofwisdom i dont recall that in the book mountain man
I never saw that in the movie either and have it on dvd@@indigotidebeeblebrox9978
I watched this movie for 2 weeks, Straight. When 11 yrs old. Me & my brother 10yrs old, snuck into a drive in theater- through a rain run off gap between fence & pavement. Turning up the speakers close to us.
We also watched Posieden adventure.
Mom knew we were safe. Even though we crossed an ankle deep creek to get there.
Loved both movies. The bear in cabin part was great. We were living in Knoxville TN.
Knew had to be a basis for the movie, Thank you for the information. Since it was Mid '73 when seen it.
@anitawindbigler7100 Those are some fun stories and thanks for sharing!
Remarkable you survive ankle deep creek ;)
I lived for a while on Flathead Lake, in view of the Swan Range. I think now those mountains were named for her.
@Axgoodofdunemaul Without knowing the area, I'd guess the range was named after real swans, but we'd have to investigate the ecology and history of the place to be sure
The “Flathead” tribe are the Bitterroot Salish, and now call the Flathead Reservation home, in the Flathead Valley of the Mission Mountains in NW Montana. They consolidated with Kootenai, in the Mission Valley, and the Pend d’Oreille , to the west. They all form the Consolidated Salish Kootenai Tribes (CSKT), which administers the reservation.
I live on the Flathead Reservation and can confirm: their young women are drop-dead gorgeous.
John Johnston got himself quite a catch.
Oh, yeah…the Absaroka (Crows) aren’t well thought of here.
@henryrodgers1752 It's good to know all the tribes are doing well, or well enough i hope
@@chaptersofwisdom: Thank you for your good wishes. CSKT I a real success story. A CSKT college, founded in 1980 or so, offers 4-year degrees in Wildlife Sciences, Forestry, Fisheries Management, Civil Engineering and Environmental Engineering, all of which serve tribal industries. The tribes own and operate the Flathead Lake Spillway and sell the electricity generated. All the associated infrastructure is owned by the tribe, including an electric utility company. The tribe has sponsored law students who have returned to practice on behalf of the tribe. There are tribal physicians and nurses who work in tribal health clinics. Perhaps most importantly, the shared language has been formulated and a written language created, which is now taught in schools, keeping the culture alive and thriving. Many Anglos live on the reservation, own property and have children educated in those same schools. We are all working together!!
@henryrodgers1752 That's great! Especially after such a difficult history
I have hunted near the Flathead Reservation, that tribe actually does respect the game in the area. So many other reservations have desimated their wildlife. Not the Flatheads. Beautiful people.
One of my great grandmothers was Flathead. Left the reservation and came to California, her surname was Eagle.
@@christiandunn9715 Spent 10 years with local southwest Arizona tribes. Was invited to dance ceremonial for five years. Of this honor I am still grateful. What is undocumented or even verbally discussed is that by far the largest grouping of Indigenous American people is in the LA area. They have managed to get along with each other and have informally created new traditions as a grouping.
Truth - especially outside of civilized times and places - is usually far more interesting and complex than books and movies ever capture.
Robert Redford's finest performance.
The Sting was good to & where he played some Judy that was in a think tank for Intelligence
If you read the book, at the time of this incident, Johnston’s cabin was in southern Wyoming/ northern Colorado. The war party caught her at this cabin. His vengeance took place over years and many mountain ranges.
The actress who portrayed Swan was quite attractive. I researched her one time and she did very few movies for some reason.
@trappenweisseguy27 While searching for screenshots I was surprised at how many times she gives a big smile and looks happy
Delle Bolton was her name and she’s from from NYC of all places 😳. It’s a great movie I like watching from time to time.
She died in June of 2022.
@@trappenweisseguy27 I did a search on Delle Bolton and some sites say she was born in Santa Monica, California, where in another says she was born in NYC and others still simply say she was born in the USA. Weird.
@@trappenweisseguy27
Delle Bolton IS her name. Not was. Was is past-tense.
If you watched the movie he was not trapping, he had led a white recue group to a stranded wagon train. They passed through one of the Indian grave yards and this was the reason they killed his wife
lol...I really hope your being facitious right now. Because that statement says. " you and the written documentation of the time, is wrong because the movie said it happened like this. " smh
There are several versions of the story. It’s all just based on legend. Good movie though.
This thing about graveyards, desecration of, "this is our land" and such is a modern liberal view of history, and white people making movies about indians.
I highly doubt the crows got upset about an old burial area. I think this video is much more likely the truth.
A lone, nice looking woman in the wild, no one around, lots of good stuff to steal, what's not to understand? Any day, any time in history this same scenario as happend millions of times.
Now, name me one time a mongol nation got upset because a muslim, hindu, foreigner's horse walked across a mogol grave on the steppes.
And just think Joshua Redford drove off the mountain in a willy's jeep and went of to make loads of films n the flatheads were riding horses 😂
That was only a part of the movie, pure fiction. Read dekapi absaroke, killer of crows. It is an anecdotal account of johnson
Johnson was also known as liver eater Johnson to the Crow according to popular lore.
I still watch this from time to time….knowing it did have a historic foundation. Life was hard back then…and people were tough…they had to be to survive. I salute to our pioneer ancestors.
@richardjohnson2965 Totally agree. Think about chopping down trees with a metal axe and building a log cabin - wow
My favorite movie. I used to live on the West fork of the Bitterroot river, outside Darby MT.
My grandmother is buried in Darby… they homesteaded there in her youth but froze out and moved on further west… but she left it in her will she wanted to be buried in Darby her favorite place on earth
In the movie starring Robert Redford, it showed him killing about 30 Crow indians over the next several years , Hollywood toned it down . In reality historians think it was closer to 300 . The crow finally made some kind of peace agreement with Johnston .
@NeilalanBrown-zc4qb According to the book "Crow Killer", JJ offered peace after the 20 were dispatched. Crazy Woman was involved. I'll publish a video about it later
That would half the warriors of the crow nation and ia quite absurd
Great! I always wondered about her Father and what he would do. He did not disappoint. 6:13
Just a fun fact. Did you know that in the early days of television, Indian people could not play Indians because they could not be members of the screen actors guild, and in those old westerns the Indians we're played by Italians. There are Italian actors who made a good living playing the Indians. This is just one of many stories told to me by Shaman Cheif Kitpou in his teepee, as we sat around in a circle sitting on bear rugs. This was back in the 70's.
@WheezinGeezerTV I knew the "crying Indian" from the "Keep American Beautiful" commercial was an Italian-American actor, but not about the SAG. I guess that's old-school representation where an actor is expected to fairly represent a character without exactly matching the race. Thanks for the info
That's where the Indian with a headband started.. Italians heads wouldn't keep the wigs on so they ties a leather band on and boom another Hollywood stereotype born on screen lol😊
Iron Eyes Cody being the most famous.Appeared in numerous Westerns in minor roles.A major role in "Grayeagle",alongside Ben Johnson,Alex Cord & Lana Wood.
Eagle eye from the old pollution commercials was also Italian not native but he lived are n breathed his role as iron eyes eagle eyes .can't remember but they had his teepee on pickers
Must have been southern Italians because the northern Italians are too white.
Thanks . That was informative and entertaining. I know the movie but you have supplied so much more information. Cheers from Oz. 👍
@thomasmcloney1437 Yes, thanks, the back story is really interesting and fun to compare to what ended up on screen
I’ve been reading the book “Crow Killer.”….and Johnston was an amazing man, as were all of those early mountain men. It was a tough life, with tough rules, and tough people. It is amazing how far they travelled back and forth, and what they accomplished.
@richardjohnson2965 Great book! We all need to read more
Johnston terrorized the Crow tribe after this. He hunted them, 💀 them, and ate the liver of over 300. Crow learned to fear "Liver Eating Johnston".
my all time favorite movie! "crow killer," the book is part fiction, just like the movie is part fiction. tall tales were common back in those days...
Very interesting, My brother in-law is from that tribe. I will see if he knows the history...
What a FANATASTIC movied this was, one of Redford's finest. He also fell in love with Utah during the filming, starting the Sundance Film Festival.
I think Redford owned property where some of film was made.
Johnson was also called “liver eating Johnson”. The reason was his feud with the crow over his wife’s death made him a target of the crow. One time they had him outnumbered and he had shot a crow warrior who wasn’t yet dead. He knew the crow were a very superstitious people and in a desperate act to save himself he took his knife, and while the rest of the crow looked on he cut open the dying crow warrior and tore out his liver and started to eat it which terrified the crow so much they fled. After that when he would kill a crow warrior he’d take out the liver and eat part of it raw and leave it for the rest to find. That became the thing he was infamous for and it not only instilled fear in the crow, but also a deep hatred that drove the crow to try to kill him. What most people don’t know is that Johnson didn’t die in the mountains, but in a old folks home in Maine I think. It might have been New Hampshire I’m not quite sure since I first read his biography many years ago. I don’t know if it’s still in print but as I recall it was called “the life of liver eating Johnson”. A good but frightening read of hatred and revenge. Also the biography of Juan Garcia who was a mountain man who married a beautiful young Blackfoot woman who he bought and there were photos of them. I remember seeing the photo of Garcia and her and he was a dirty ugly man, and I literally couldn’t take my eyes off of this young woman who was so stunningly beautiful she’d be a raven haired beauty even by todays standards and that’s her pure natural beauty. I looked at her and could only imagine how repulsed she must have been to submit her body to a filthy ugly man like Garcia. In the photo her long black hair down to her lower back made me feel a real sense of sadness that such a beautiful creature as she was would be sold to someone like him. The sadness in her beautiful black eyes was so moving I kept that photo for forty years.
@chriswilliams5982 That's a lot of good information that was (mostly) not in the book "Crow Killer" ... I'd have to read the intro again. Thanks for sharing!
@@chaptersofwisdom your welcome. Some of the scenes in the movie are accurate. As I recall after he found his wife raped and murdered he did in fact track the crow and found them camping. According to the “liver eating Johnson” book he killed several before they scattered. There was also a story about him and Jim Bridger who was visiting him in a cabin that backed up to a cliff Johnson had built with an escape route out the back into a ravine. They were baking biscuits when suddenly about forty crow attacked the cabin. According to the account from Bridger Johnson poisoned the biscuits with strychnine and they escaped out the back. Three days later they returned and found over twenty dead crow all over the property. They had eaten the biscuits and it killed them. He eventually left the mountains and somehow ended up back east apparently where he was born and died there because the crow were more and more determined to kill him. Hope this helps if you want to do more research. I remember when the film came out and I saw it and wondered how many people knew the truth about him. On and the killing of his wife was in fact because he trespassed on sacred burial ground of the crow. As I remember it had nothing to do with leading a rescue party. He just for some reason violated sacred ground.
@chriswilliams5982 The story about the biscuits is loosely tied to Crazy Woman which I'll talk about in a few more videos (scheduled to publish in March and April). Also found a sample of "The Never-Ending Lives of Liver-Eating Johnson" on Google Books, which would be interesting to compare to "Crow Killer":
@@chaptersofwisdom great! It’s been so long since I read the book I may very well have confused things. I’ll be looking forward to seeing more that might refresh my memory on it.
Do you have a link or any books on this mountain man named Juan Garcia? I can't seem to find anything online about him or any photos of him and his wife.
A great movie... Thanks for flushing out more content about the movie!
@t.anthony3940 You're welcome, glad you liked it!
A fine commentary the details I was unaware of. I saw the movie in the Spring of 1973 and it had a lasting affect on me, as a troubled 18 year old. It spurred me to want to see the Northwestern territory, and I began acquiring camping gear. I even bought a 50 caliber muzzle loader, that I still have to this day. A friend and I attended the World's Fair in Spokane by driving across the country, and we camped in territory around the story line places. People would talk to us about the Liver Eating Johnson history of the area, as it was freshened by the event of the movie. Such was common knowledge in that territory, but that was 50 years ago.
@johnshields9110 Thanks for sharing those great stories. In addition to Spokane, what cities did you find people are interested in the Liver Eating Johnson history of the area? I figured Helena would be a good source too
I hit the bar in Browing Montana one morning and there were Flathead tribe members laying on the floor and band stage passed out. Went to the bar and was surrounded and had a knife pulled on me and my life threatened if I didn’t buy them some drinks. I’m a stone cold alcoholic is why I was there in the first place and would have bought them drinks without all of that. The pot holes in the street were the worst part. A few years later I was in treatment with a few of them in Great Falls. Good guys as far as I’m concerned.
@jimmycain8669 Sounds like a sad decline that is all too common (people, towns, tribes). I'm glad you didn't get hurt and hope your recovery is successful
Great movie! Powerful stuff & should be on your must watch list!
1
Thank you so much for this. Very well done and informative.
@chrismorrison3696 Glad you liked it, thanks!
I’ve been on the Flathead reservation north of Missoula, Montana.
In Scotland 🏴 we’d call big Robert, big rab or BOABY
Great movie.Heard it was based on a true story.Good to learn something every day.Thanks.
@Robert-i4u7g Loosely based on a partially true story, but still a great movie, thanks!
The Crows were also despised by the Oglala and Lakota Sioux for acting as scouts and fighting on the side of Custer.
@jayleeper1512 There was a time when some Native Americans thought the white settlers and soldiers were just another tribe they could drive back. Others took the side that gave them the advantage. It happened in New England, too
@@chaptersofwisdom that is true. The Crows were concerned that the other tribes were out to take their territory so the aligned with the white soldiers.
I read the book, Crow Killer. Quite different than the movie.
My brothers fav. Movie. Think of him especially when I see this movie.
FYI. Swan was an awesome young woman. A great friend and companion. If anything was to touch or harm Swan, my revenge would be marked in blood in the highest mountains. Amen
...like the flatheads even better now!!!....as a SAXON warrior I greet you!!!
@@dingleberryxo7623 north-east part of the Netherlands and north-west Germany.
@@dingleberryxo7623 the only one who conquered my tribe was Charlemagne, emperor of the holy Roman empire, before and after that my tribesman did most of the killing I am afraid...and we do NOT live in reservations...
@@dingleberryxo7623
Why are you so snotty? We are ALL descended from tribes. Everybody on EARTH! Get over yourself. 😤
That movie was great! Never be another one like it...
Great stuff...thank you Sir....
@chrisbergonzi7977 You're welcome and thanks!
This was excellent, thanks 😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
One of my favorite movies , over the years i have watched this movie at least 9 times. I heard they used to call him liver eating Johnson for consuming the liver of warriors he killed.
The Swan wasn't American Indian, but a great actress in her best role.
Great movie, saw it at the cinemas in the 1970s.
I've been wondering exactly about this. Thanks!
Happy to help!
I thoroughly enjoyed your video. Ill sibscibe and im looking forward to perusing more. 💪🏻🙏🏻✨
@thomasgumersell9607 Great, thank you!
My favorite movie of all time..
good yarn .where did you dig this up from
@billygun I read "Crow Killer" and matched the text to the events in the film. Glad you liked it!
I read that the ‘liver-eating’ was unproven and that 300 livers was likely an exaggeration. Great story either way!
As to her murder: to forgive means *it was unimportant,* to forget means *it never happened.*
@BeachsideHank Not sure I agree about forgiveness. That's about redemption for the wrong-doer (assuming there is remorse) and healing for those who were wronged
@@chaptersofwisdom You rob someone of their dignity and personhood who has been grievously wronged and maligned with your casually dismissive attitude.
@@BeachsideHank To forgive is Divine. We were taught to forgive those who hurt us, by Jesus Christ Himself. There is nothing easy or shallow about forgiving. Nothing shallow or dismissive about forgiving a repentant sinner.
@@granmabern5283 Catholicism is to Christianity what pro wrestling is to Olympic sports, because when it comes down to exaggerated ceremonies, perfumed air, soothsaying chants and muttering in an important-sounding dead language whilst kissing Roman execution devices and wearing ghoulishly bizarre wizard costumes, nobody does Shaman-like theater better than the Catholics.
I will add that the Catholic Church has always said that it is sometimes necessary to go to war and also to use the death penalty in some cases. We aren’t supposed to do either out of vengeance, but rather to protect society and deter criminal activity.
I knew the flatheads were capable of being fierce when Dell Jew said if they took insult they would gut them from belly to eyeball with a dull deer antler.
I never knew the story of Jeremiah Johnson was actually true, thank you so much! And Redford kept the movie so accurate! A great story of love, Vengeance and life in the old west!!
It's not Redford who kept the movie "accurate". It's its writer John Milius.
@@paulhomsy2751 the movie is always a collaboration of ideas. And the end result of this was perfect! Kudos to their honesty!
Get over modern sensibilities and offending them. People for thousands of years did this and modern thinking is an abberration and will certainly be looked down upon in the future. Our society today is unsustainable in its lack of moral values and celebrates what is wrong and deplorable as beneficial. Not all nations are like us for good reason. Our reason for allowing what we have become is cowardice and seeking our own pleasure. We would rather be on the golf course, at the shopping center, watching a movie, planning for a year and then going to Disney World, all things that simply can't be disturbed in response to wrong doing. We are entertained to death, a dead society still walking.
You seem to be very bitter and disenchanted with modern society... I suggest you adapt to the times or you're going to have a sad, miserable rest of your life.
@Dontwlookatthis It's all part of the cycle of empires and the USA is going into the decadence/selfish phase. Have you read "The Fate of Empires"?
@cosmic_american Wise words. We can't focus too much on negativity. You can work on fixing your own corner of the world, or alternatively, as Aaron Clarey says, "Enjoy the decline."
@@american_cosmic I suppose that if I take your username literally, you are one heck of a busy American. Just kidding. Actually, I am a sad miserable person, it happens to some people when you retire and suddenly, your love of your life is suddenly taken down by her intestines separating from the rest of her digestive system but doctors can't find the reason, leave her in pain because her blood pressure had dropped and the meds she gets to help keep her blood pressure up some don't work with any pain killers, then 11 hours after we get there she codes, they as if I should revive her, I say yes, we do't have any kind of diagnosis maybe it can be fixed, then it takes them so long to do it that she is brain damaged, then the docs come back, do an MRI and finds out what's wrong and says she is almost at the last stages of death. So she dies and I am sad and miserable. Then it got worse, losing both daughters, having a home invasion where I was beaten so badly I was in the hospital and rehab for 37 days during which I had a financial disaster that I was unaware of because of brain injury, and then being dismissed from the hospital, I had lost one third of my retirement income. Want me to keep going? Now I was just diagnosed with spinal stenosis and can barely walk. But I am trying to put on a peachy attitude so that the upper half of my body which is still good, can enjoy what's left.
@Dontwlookatthis Really sorry to hear about all this. We have a family member who is struggling like that. Maybe the escapism into some good old movies helps. Keep sharing your thoughts
They made that commercial where the Chief Is looking all over the ground. Garbage, dirt, and debris tossed everywhere. The fading shot is on the Chief's face with a tear slowly running down his cheek.
@MrEric2cu I believe that actor was Italian-American, but that's OK with me as long as he could reasonably represent the character he portrayed
Iron Eyes Cody
Liver eating Johnson was from New Jersey.
Exit 14...
Big Robber was supposedly killed by Shoshone chief Washakie at Crowheart Butte on the Wind River.
@tinoyb9294 Hmm, I just checked that on Wikipedia, interesting story
For me story and western movie of Jeremiah Johnson are excelent...
A forgotten gem of a movie. Gunslingers are a teenagers dream....lasted a few decades...mountain men were the people you walked quietly around.
Well said.
I saw this movie for the first time about a year ago. He was a peaceful man, but when it came time for violence, he was all in. He was absolute death for those that tested him.
@cubefarmerhkc9105 The film cleaned up his behavior to make him more sympathetic, but yes, he did not seem like one of those who would kill people for no reason
Johnson went on a twenty year killing spree killing crow everywhere he found them it wasn't that cut and dry
What a movie. Not quite as accurate as the WWII story about Allied airmen in a german prison camp. Their slapstick humor, keen inventions and constant outwitting of the colonel warden and his bumbling sergeant are stuff of legend.
Please showcase that documentary-like treasure.
Give the reading bot a real heavy accent. For realism.
@HistoryOnTheLoose Let us know when you make that video, i'd watch it!
Werner Kemplerer agreed to play the part if he would be a bumbling fool.He and his parents were Jews who escaped from Germany in the 1930''s.Leon Askin also a Jew escaped from Austria played the general was a sergent in the Army Air Corps in WWII.
I’ll admit I didn’t watch the video but I’ve never known of the flathead to be at odds with Johnson but the Crow
@RobbieBobbie98 You are right. Johnson married into the Flathead tribe, who ended up ambushing the Crow tribe, according to the book "Crow Killer"
My Grandpa was Seminole. It would be amazing to see how the different Indian Tribes got along. I just watched Jeremiah Johnson after I purchased it. It do not know it was true.
@lukuscarter3563 That's interesting, the first episode of "Lawmen: Bass Reeves" showed a Seminole woman and son who moved to the frontier after the Civil War. Some tribes were allies and some tribes fought each other endlessly. The story of Jeremiah Johnson as we know it belongs somewhere between "kind of true in spirit" and "tall tales told by adventurers years later"
The second half of the movie was sad!!! Johnson knew not to travel through the sacred burial land yet, he did....he paid dearly for the mistake.
@tmcge3325 That scene was in the film but not "Crow Killer". I wonder if the scene was added to tone down the violence throughout the story where people were getting scalped just because they couldn't stop it
According to the book "Crow Killer," the Crazy Woman was a real person who had settled in the Wolf Tail Valley. After her children were killed and her husband taken captive, she remained in her cabin. Liver Eatin' Johnson, Del Gue and Anton Sepulveda were among the mountain men who "avenged" her. One popular story was that the mountain man known as "Hatchet Jack" was actually her husband who had gone insane after being scalped and tortured by the Blackfoot Indians when they took him away. It was known that Hatchet Jack had been scalped at some point in his life and that he was mentally unbalanced. Johnson refers to this when he tells the Crazy Woman that he cannot find any sign of her husband, but that he might return if he escaped from the Indians.
@tesstickles1280 That's all true and a great book, thanks!
It was so sad. She was such a nice lady
And a great cook
saw the movies years ago, first time finding out it was based on a real person.
Excellent 👍👍👍
@johnmurryvlogs8603 Thank you!
I’m not sure how accurate this betrayal of what happen or if it’s true but I like the movie still got it typed on my DVR regularly watch it.
@randallstephens78 Thanks for the comment. Combining the text from "Crow Killer" and screenshots from the movie has caused some confusion, so I need to be clearer about the differences
One of my favourite movies
Dang the crow were outnumbered AND ambushed and they still killed more flatheads.
I loved that movie
Good job!
Thank you!
It’s weird I’m watching the movie right now😂
@stephenmitchell-we8wi Somehow Google detected that and recommended videos about JJ. The Cloud is watching us all 😬
Waiting for the next movie.
@Roastcrackling The book "Crow Killer" has more good stories you could make a TV mini series about, though it might be hard to make liver-eater sympathetic to modern audiences
Ambushed and out numbered 4 to 1 they still managed to kill almost twice their number. Dang, that ain’t good!
Good subject and video editing. The pauses after each sentence are a bit annoying though.
@chaddixon5725 Thanks for the compliment and constructive criticism! You're right about the pauses and I've learned to chop the last half-second off the end each audio section
Thanks mate
Did ya read the book
@davidboldt3206 I read "Crow Killer", not the fiction novel "Mountain Man". What differences did you notice?
I love the Robert Redford movie. It is incredible. But make no mistake, The real Liver Eating Johnson was no hero.
@CassandrashadowcassMorrison They were all killers but there was friendship, honor and kindness among them too. It may be unfair to judge them from the safety of my warm office 🙂
Wow. Outnumbered 4 to 1 and killed 60? Not a very effective ambush. Who punished who?
@sheldonf The Flatheads showed they won't let their people be bullied, but you're right, it was at a heavy price
For those who liked Jeremiah Johnson, here are other movies. "Mountain Men" starring Charlton Heston and Brian Keith. "Man In The Wilderness" with Richard Harris, similar to the Revenant. Both were about the mountain Man, Hugh Glass. Neither was accurate about the real life encounters of Hugh Glass. Also one to watch, but very hard to find, "Sacred Ground" with Jack Elam. Last but not least is The full series of "The Life And Times Of Grizzly Adams" Starring Dan Hagerty and Denver Pyle." Both seasons of this Wonderful TV series. Hours of entertainment at a great value. I bought a copy in Walmart!!!! Can also be found online. Hope this helps for those interested in mountain Man lore and life. All the best and may God bless.
@dalehood1846 Great recommendations, thanks! "Mountain Men" is on my short list to watch
Im glad we in times...i would rather not put my daughter up for sale...or trade like ever!!!
However as a tribal and bloodline strong partial native ....i would love to put some of my inlaws up for sale or trade....😂
@alanashford9207 Haha, nice! But you might have to pay someone instead ...
The best movie ever made.
This is very different from the legends ive heard. From the legends its said Johnson spent the rest of his life hunting and ambushing Crow warriors wherever he found them. Hes said to have killed them , cut out their livers and cooked them. Thus earning him the name liver Johnson
Moral of the story.... insisting on revenge always guarantees that many more people will suffer and the cycle will continue endlessly...
@zedmarlen Yes and I doubt the Crows wanted to trade for horses with the Flatheads any time soon after that
---- actually, the moral seems to be that even vastly superior numbers can't make up for incompetence
It is what it is. Suffering is a part of life, even for the most pampered. I am not obligated to break any cycles if someone has injured me enough to warrant revenge.
Ah, yes. The ever wise soul that would leave such a vicious injustice go unanswered. The world needs sheep.
Yes, and snowflakes melt when there is too much heat...
Because he took a group of men through the flathead burial Ground that is sacred.
So they punished Johnson by killing his family !
So Johnson declared war on the Flathead Tribe. It lasted for years and years. 😮😊
@michaelcopper7635 Yes, that's how the film presents the events. However I'd instead say the Crows declared war on him, after he took revenge on the men who attacked his family
My all time favorite movie! I'd like to see more vlogs on this topic.
@DMTaber Great, there are more coming soon, thanks!
The film and the book are complete fiction. John Johnston give many newspaper interviews in his life and the real story blows all the nonsensical fiction away.
Written by two writers from LA and NYC, who knew nothing about American Indians
Filmed entirely in Utah.
Robert redord great actor my one favorite was the mountain man with charlton heston
@StewardSmith-sw5dl Yeah that one's on my watch list too
There was nothing fictitious about the story of Liver-eating Johnson, the story loosely used for the film.
@MrLgmurphysr That seems to be an ongoing debate. I'll have to investigate more
Jeremiah Johnson was based on the novel Mountain man, published in 1965. It is not possible fiction it is listed as fiction (Fiction means NON TRUE, MADE UP STORY) there is no possible fiction here, it is confirmed by the author as fiction. Using a known location, or known tribes that lived in an area does not lend truth to the existence of Jeremiah Johnson or his wife. In the novel the main character is Augustus Barret. The mountain man and his native american wife raise a family and thrive in the mountains, though they do have occassional problems with the blackfoot tribe. Between the narrators claim of "possible fiction" and reading all the comments suggesting this is a true story, I just cant listen to this whole video.
@jenkor513 Thank you for your comment. This video and those other comments are based on the book "Crow Killer", which is categorized as a biography at my local library. Whether the stories are true or not is debated in the book's introduction (or prologue). I have not read "Mountain Man" but based on what you wrote, "Crow Killer" is a much closer story to "Jeremiah Johnson". Thanks again
The movie was based on the book " Crow Killer ". It's right there in the film credits.
How true is this. Hollywood true, but, good movie.
It was the crow Indian's that took revenge on him because he led the soldiers through their burial grounds!
@lancereed1631 Thank you for the comment. In the future I'll be more clear about the differences between the film and the book
Thank you.
You're welcome!
That actress was lovely.