Is The Onzow Zerodust RUINING Your Stylus?
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- New evidence is showing that gel-type cleaners are mucking up styli and causing BIG problems. I take a look at the facts. If that's your thing, you've found your place. Welcome to the Vinyl Attack!
Read the original article here: www.analogplanet.com/content/...
0:00 - Intro
0:51 - The Claim
1:13 - The Problem
3:04 - The Proof
5:08 - The Fallout
5:48 - The Research
7:21 - The Alternatives
9:05 - The Wait
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Great, as if I wasn't already neurotic enough.
I hear ya.
Because you're damaging you're records and you now need to reaplce you're stilli and check it under a microscope after playing it on you're records because you're going to get cross contamination and it may not come off without out sonic cleaning?
😂
Have you used one? I did twice, won't use it again. Now, I'm gonna go take a Xanax.
Great video on this product. Several years ago when I was investigating the then new idea of ultrasonic record cleaners, I met another audiophile who was using the cleaner. I'd never seen it and was impressed, so I ordered a couple. Just as I got them he contacted me to say that he'd sent his stylus away to be retipped and the company doing it got in touch to say it was contaminated with sticky residue, no doubt caused by the gel cleaner. Fortunately I had not used them and they now sit forlornly in my drawer with all my other turntable tools. I clean my stylus only with a soft brush and occasionally with a stiff Project brush. Very rarely I use the MOFI stylus cleaning liquid. Have you reviewed this product? I have read that some cleaners can affect the glue.
This is why I love your channel.
Without knowing exactly what's in a cleaner, it can be hard to do a review. I do know there's alcohol in the Mofi cleaner, but not how much. I have used it, but a VERY small amount and very infrequently.
Excellent job. Thanks for that detailed, precise summation.
Thanks for bringing the subject to light in the first place.
Excellent episode Chris. I have an Onzow myself but haven’t used it in years, ever since my cartridge retipper told me not to use it and not to use liquid cleaners since my beloved Koetsu Rosewood had evidence of fluid having travelled up the cantilever into the body. I then resurrected my old Audio Technica electronic stylus cleaner (similar to the Flux you showed) which is my go to “deep cleaner” for a more vigorous clean than my standard Carbon fibre discwasher stylus brush. As Wally Tools are saying an occasional careful use of a liquid cleaner such as Stylast is ok, I will give it a try as well! I really appreciate the rational, well reasoned and tempered approach to your reviews. Keep up the great work and do give us an update on Wally tools ongoing testing and recommendations.
Thanks much for the kind words. I'd say you've got a great system going for cleaning your stylus and it's what I'll be doing as soon as I pick up a Flux.
Great information Chris! Interestingly, I have a Hana ML cart that I have been using for almost a year, and I noticed my balance was off. Tried everything to resolve, even realigning. I have been using the Zerodust to clean the stylus after any heavy listening session. After seeing this video, I thoroughly (but carefully) cleaned the stylus with a good old stylus brush for about 3 minutes. Much to my surprise, my balance issue was resolved!!! I therefore am left to assume that there was some accumulation of residue that affected audio quality. Just dropped my gel cleaner in the trash. Who would have thought?
While I'm not surprised, I'm happy to hear you were able to fix the problem.
Mine just arrived today! I won’t use it. Anyone wants it? You would only pay for the shipping. 😜
Hi Chris, thanks for you coverage of this polarizing topic. I appreciate the benevolent approach you're taking and I think I'll be following your example and stop using my Onzow till further research deems it safe. In the meantime I was looking for an alternative and found a couple of products that peaked my interest.
"Hudson Hi-Fi UV Stylus Cleaner" similar to the Flux you mentioned. Also, the somewhat extravagant "Integrityhifi Tru-Kleen Deluxe Stylus Cleaner" collects a healthy number of evangelist on the audio forums that I frequent. If you decide to plan a Stylus Cleaner Shootout in the future, these would make fascinating entries. Thanks
I will definitely look at both. Thanks for the heads up.
This is facinating and not a surprise. Your approach of a tiny amount of Stylast on a brush backs sense, as does the concern about these types of cleaners. Thank you!
Happy to help.
First, thank you for bringing this to our attention. It is a subject worthy of discussion. My own experience: I have three styluses, all with over 200-300 current hours on them. 99% of the time, they are cleaned with the Onzow, with very occasional brushing. I often (obsessively) check the condition of the styluses and cantilevers. Two of the styluses are nude diamond, so the condition of the shank is easy to see. The level of accumulation shown on the photos would not be hard to discern even at lower magnifications. All I can say is, in my case the shanks and cantilevers are clean and shiny and I have never seen anything like this happen. Same was true with the "retired" styluses cleaned with the Onzow. I use two Onzows, one rather new and one with many miles on it. No problem with either. The cartridges track without problems. I should add that all records are machine cleaned. I also try to not put the stylus down in the same place in the gel over and over. Onzows can be dangerous. I did destroy a stylus by banging the plastic case into it head on, so I changed how I placed it. Overall, I think using it as I have described is safer than fumbling all the time with a brush. I hope someone can resolve this matter once and for all! Good luck!
Thank you for this helpful comment!
You don't have access to microscopes this powerful to verify effectively.
Back-to-forth with a brush ain't fumbling. Putting gunk all over your stylus is fumbling, and then smearing the gunk into your cleaned records' grooves. What do you prefer?
@@rabarebra The head of the company that makes the ZeroDust did challenge Fremer about these claims. He says their product is different from some of the imitations and does not have this effect. Since the person reporting this "problem" did not apparently bother to ask which brand was being used and did not use any controls, nothing about this has any level of "proof."
Chris, while in the process of substituting my stylus because of excessive distortion that I thought was due to it beating worn out (after only one year?!), I remembered this video of yours. So I bought an “el cheapo” USB microscope and checked the stylus. That was enough to understand I am another “victim” of this kind of cleaning gels (I used Audio Technica’s one): after some alternate liquid stylus cleaner (and some more distilled water rinse, as I hate the idea of alcohol on stylus bond) plus a good old dry brush, my stylus is as new and there’s no distortion anymore.
I can backup this story with pictures, if needed.
Thanks for saving me a few hundred bucks for the new NOS stylus!
I'm happy to hear that you were able to fix the issue. One more testimony of the hazards of these 'cleaners'.
Wow!!! You area hero!! Thank you so much for this video, I’ll make sure to check in with your channel for any updates
I'm just a guy trying to put out a fire.
Just came across this video through UA-cam recommendations. As always, a pleasure watching. Your no nonsense, scientific based reviews are a breath of fresh air. This aligns with my thought process super well. Instead of hype you focus on as scientifically possible within reasonable cost to provide details on vinyl accessories. After this video, I’m chucking my onzow and ordering another stylus brush.
I'm glad you found it helpful. I endeavor to provide truthful and factual evidence as much as possible.
Thank you for a very informative and eye opening account on stylus cleaning gels. As a result, I look forward to the updates on new products to help clean the stylus. As birthday treat I have purchased a beogram 7000 with an MMC 4 stylus. It should have come with a MMC 2 stylus, I have subsequently secured an MMC2 stylus at Great expense and as you can imagine, want to make sure I treat it with the greatest of respect when it comes to cleaning. As previously stated. Look forward to the results. 👍
Always wondered about this gel cleaner,for every action there's a reaction and residue is there when you can't see it..great knowledge,been using the brush for years with no fails but good to know!! Thank you once again
Thanks for watching.
These findings are worrying. I have used Onzow for awhile, and can't say I have noticed any form of degradation other than it is quickly gets rid of the obvious dirt. I hope the company comes out with something soon as this has been reported several places. Anyway, love your presentation and videos. Subbed.
They responded to my email inquiry, but it didn't really clear anything up. I'm still trying to talk with Onzow about the situation. I'll keep everyone posted as I hear more.
@@thevinylattack Anything new?
Well explained. Appreciate the additional detail that went beyond the Analog Planet article. I bought a USB microscope and took photos when attempting to adjust SRA last winter. The stylus was filthy. I thought it was because I had been playing a lot of new records (Tone Poets) without first cleaning them. Now I suspect it was the Onzow, since I use it before each side. Took more photos after the article came out. Still pretty filthy so I am using a stylus bristle brush that will hopefully clean but not harm.
Thanks. J.R. was able to provide the additional detail in our phone converastions.
Thank you for the thoughtful passing of important information and look forward to the follow up. I was relieved to hear I clean my stylus just like you. Whew!
Glad it was helpful.
Been using the audio technica version I have noticed that people tend to manually lift the gel up into the stylus quite "firmly" for lack of a better word I've always used the tonearm lever to lightly drop the stylus onto the gel I do this delicately watching the cantilever as I do it
I also use the liquid stylus cleaner sparingly about once every three or four weeks this combination works well for my setup. I realize that every turntable setup is different and if I had say a cartridge that costs many hundreds or thousands of dollars I'd probably be a lot more discerning
I have a technics sl-1700 mk1 with an ortofon blue been using the audio technica cleaners for several years now and have had no issues I have a microscope to check for residue and stylus wear. I can't stress enough that if you use these types of products its important to have a way to visually inspect your stylus and cantilever and to use them with caution. Just my two cents if your using a very expensive setup I'd not use any of these products
Enlightening video. As one who has always cleaned the stylus prior to playing, I have deliberately avoided the tack pads for reasons mentioned. However, due to your video, have learned that I have been grossly overusing the stylus cleaning fluid since I applied at the start of every listening session. Thanks for the education.
Glad it was helpful.
Chris, thanks for the video on this topic. Im surprised it took so long for this issue to be discovered.
I contemplated getting one of these gel based products but always backed away thinking "If something sticky it gathering the dust then why wouldnt the sticky adhere to the cart?" I never found a straight answer but it appears the question was and is a valid one.
There is no way to perfectly clean such small area as a cart needle unfortunately and I do not feel safe using any type liquids. Dry brush all the way for me.
There are people out there who have had these results checked over the passed few years, but I think J.R. was the first to have so many cases of the same thing that he was able to make a much more informed finding.
I had some problems with my TT and took it into my local shop. I asked him to check my stylus while he had it as I was concerned it might need replacing. He told me stylus was fine but it was really dirty. Weird since I used Onzow as well as stylus brush before every play. I immediately suspected the gel cleaner, now it seems like my suspicions are being confirmed. Going to try using some Last cleaner, very sparingly. Thanks for sharing
I'm hearing more and more stories just like this. I hope you get it all taken care of.
That's what I use sparingly the Last
Thank you sir for yet another informative video. I use a piece of magic eraser but was considering trying a gel type cleaner. I will hold off on that now until more information is available.
Probably for the best.
Thanks for this. I've been using the Zerodust for a long time so this is a bit worrying! I shall dig out my vibrating Audio Technica stylus cleaner and use that from now on I think. Thanks for bringing this to our attention
Glad it was helpful.
I used to use my Onzow with my old turntable and had no problem. When I upgraded my turntable that came with an Ortofon 2m cart I stopped using it because of the distortion I was hearing. I then cleaned the stylus with the MoFi solution and have used a dry brush ever since. Distortion gone! I have since shelved my Onzow. This isn't difinitive evidence that the Onzow was the causal variable producing the distortion, but it was my experience.
Good video! Looking forward to the updates.
Probably for the best.
Another informative bullseye.
Good to know.
Great video! Thanks Chris!
You bet.
I have been using Moon Gel, (dampeners for drum heads), seems to work great and upon inspection I can see no build up so far but think I will stop for now until we learn more.
Better safe than sorry.
I hope there ends up being a follow up to this for sure! Would love to know more of what is found. My Onzow is getting delivered today. I bought it after reading many times over that brushes and solutions were less effective, possibly damaging ways to clean a stylus (and before seeing this video). Now I see the opposite. I think some of the variables brought up in this comment section bring up great points. The age of the Onzow, the off-brand solutions, the frequency of use, and another thing I thought of is the temperature. Ive read time and time again of people using them after each side of a record. Is it possible that use immediately after play could raise the temperature of the diamond enough that when brought into contact with the Onzow it semi melts just enough for a thin film to become stuck to the stylus. I thought of this since the Onzow is creating a hardened coating which would indicate heat could be "baking" the gel onto the stylus. These are all things I would like to know. I guess I will be investing in a new carbon brush and solution as well until a final release of findings is made.
There was a follow-up.
I'm brand new to vinyl, and thank you for bringing this up. I'm glad I had the presence of mind to do my research. I also found that - as of March 2023 - Onzow has revamped it's warnings for the Zerodust cleaner. They basically say that if you keep the zerodust in direct sunlight or very warm temperatures, you might have the "residue problem." Also, they say to replace it after 3 years. Personally, I'm just gonna use a stylus brush.
I've heard about that. Another follow-up video is most likely in order.
Great summary of the situation. I'm stopping use of my Onzow until I have more info. I've been happily using it for a couple years. I haven't seen or heard any problems with my stylus but better safe than sorry.
That's pretty much where I'm at.
Thanks for the video. I’m another person who has an Ortofon cartridge and they do not recommend using a wet cleaner so I just use a carbon fiber dry brush. But, if you think a tiny amount of wet cleaner applied once a month won’t damage my needle, I’ll give it a shot!
I wouldn't suggest to go against your cartridge manufacturer, but I can say that I've had no problems when using a VERY small amount of cleaning fluid.
@@thevinylattack I generally agree about following use instructions, it is important. however, the manufacture can't really suggest anything that might take skill, as some customers have none, except at complaining about how they followed instructions and now they need a refund because their stuff is screwed up. .
I'm so pleased to have found this video - Onzow has wreaked havoc with my record listening! I have a respectable system (Linn LP12 Akurate with Hercules II PSU, Linn Ittok arm and Linn Karma cartridge, running through a Linn Linto MC preamp giving line level to my Genelec 1032/7070 system in a sound-treated room), and following a work-enforced listening break I had a hankering to hear a 1979 single I'd ripped to digital years earlier on an earlier and simpler Linn. The ripped song sounded OK, but I wanted to hear it on the uprated Linn and I dug it out and played it, and - horrors! Crazy distortion! I couldn't understand it. The single had been stored with others in a record case in a slightly record-hostile loft, but even after careful application of the carbon fibre bush and Onzow stylus cleaner, there was no improvement. I even bought an example of the album from eBay, and that sounded worse! Now, before my break I'd been playing a few records and using the Onzow, thinking it was a smart idea, but it seems it did add residue to my Karma stylus that not only built-up, but then hardened into something truly terrible for reproduction. After a few more informative You Tube videos I tried something I'd never done - using a short-bristle carbon fibre brush moistened with isopropyl alcohol, I carefully brush-cleaned my stylus. The result: instant improvement! Significantly less distortion. I did it again and got a further improvement. Jeez! Those who know such stuff understand that the Karma cartridge is very much a legacy model, but it's beautiful-sounding, and as mine hasn't had loads of use, it's still excellent. In the many years I've had it (including in the previous, simpler LP12) it's always been consistently wonderful, but the Onzow swiftly reduced it to sounding like a badly-mistracking heap - I am genuinely astounded. I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to suspect the Onzow had I not seen Chris's video, so huge thanks go to him, and this is definitely a cautionary tale to all vinyl fans. It's entirely possible that residue build-up will happen so gradually that a progressively worsening listening experience may be barely noticeable until you suddenly think your cartridge has died a death, when all it needs is a stylus cleaning - or, preferably, not being exposed to hideous contaminating residues in the first place. I cannot stress this enough - after 2 decades of joy from my Karma, within months I was thinking I'd need to replace it - and that wouldn't be cheap! I'm also greatly angered that an apparently innocuous stylus cleaning product can perniciously wreck listening pleasure and give the impression that a cartridge is dying. After all, we can't all stick our stylii under a microscope to check for residue build-up, nor should we even expect it. Onzow clearly hadn't done any long-term testing of the effects of protracted use of their gel, and shame on them for omitting this before releasing it to the market. In light of my experience of 20 years of perfect reproduction followed by a few months of rapid Onzow-induced decline, I would advise all record fans to AVOID GEL STYLUS CLEANERS like the plague! You'd be far better-off sticking to the tried-and-trusted method of blowing over the stylus before each record playing! Caveat emptor!
I'm hearing more and more stories like this as time passes.
@@thevinylattack I'm honestly stunned at the difference the Onzow residue caused. I'm a former record producer and recording engineer and I can attest to how superior (analog-recorded) vinyl is over most digital formats for absolute fidelity. To make my favourite tracks portable I record them at 24-bit, 96kHz, which I've done with with the song in question, both before and after just one process: cleaning the Onzow residue off my stylus. The difference is simply staggering - I wish I could play the before-and-after for everyone without causing copyright strikes! If it would be helpful to you, I could send the files to you - please let me know.
Well. I guess I’m sorry I got talked into these gel stylus cleaners; glad I tend to use a real brush more often simply for convenience. Thanks, as always for a thoughtful, researched point of view. 👊 Appreciate you.
Happy to help.
@@thevinylattack bad news, but news that is sincerely appreciated, especially given the fact that I just bought a couple of new mounted carts to use for lesser recorded records that benefit from a little color; I’d very much like to keep blue, red, and “nagaoka” yellow clean, so I might amateurishly enjoy them a little longer. Much ❤️, today and every.
Thank you for this info. I just added this to my cart yesterday on amazon. Guess I'll wait.
That might be a good idea.
Good information, this is why I subscribed. Putting away the onzow zero dust and will continue using ortofon stylus brush.
I'm glad to help, and I'm glad you're here.
I have used one for the last year or so, so like you, I will refrain until I learn more. Thanks, Chris.
On a side note, from a MSU fan, congrats to UofM on the Big10 championship!
It seems like the pertinent move at the moment. I'd take the congrats, but I'm not on the team ;-)
I’ve been using the zero dust for about three months and after seeing this I have some concerns. I have noticed a slight increase in surface noise in the last two weeks. I’m by no means an audio expert so I’ve been asking friends for advice on the issue. I believe you mentioned abrasion with a brush could possibly help clean the residue away. Do you have advice on which brand of stylus brush to use for this task? Thanks Chris!
Any short haired stylus brush will do. J.R. said that when cleaning, he would wipe the stylus for two minutes straight or more in some cases. The idea is that the friction increases heat and helps the residue come off easier. He then threw that brush away as it was contaminated. Always work from back to front.
@@thevinylattack Thanks for these great videos! So wiping the stylus for this long (two minutes) won't wear out or decrease the stylus' performance, or was this a one time cleaning procedure? I clean my stylus with only two-three strokes back-to-forth very quickly, after each sides has played through, with my LP#9 brush. Any thoughts? I have a quite expensive MC stylus that I don't want to ruin with gunk, and I almost was about to purchase the Onzow Zerodust. Luckily, I didn't.
@@rabarebra You're not going to hurt a stylus with a cleaning brush. There just isn't enough force applied. Generally, I'd say get some sort of a magnifier so you can see your stylus clearly, and swipe until you see that it's clean.
I have bought and and used several times a gel type stylus cleaner from Dynavox, now putting it into its case back and continue with pro-ject fiber brush, as you do so, after seeing this video. Thanks! :)
Happy to help.
Grrrrr! I JUST this week finally opted to open the OnZow I purchased last month from Amazon. Still have not used. And the Vinyl gods still smile on me.
If it's within the window to return it, I'd go that route. If not, at least you didn't have tip damage even if it cost you 40 bucks.
I’ve been using a Henry & Tosh Gel Stylus Cleaner on occasion. I’ve always wondered if it did leave any residue behind. Thanks for this video. I’m going to get a stylus brush instead.
Happy to help.
Thank you for the information, Chris. I always learn a lot from your channel. I have been using an Onzow for the last year because I like that I can just drop the tonearm and let the natural weight of the arm do the work. I will now be rethinking my use of the Onzow. Do you have have recommendations on safely using a stylus brush? I get nervous using my brush, as I worry about putting too much pressure on my cantilever and bending or damaging it. Also, should we be cleaning our stylus brushes from time to time and, if so, how? Thank you for your attention to detail and efforts, Chris.
ps I just recently sent my Dyanvector 10x5 to Soundsmith to be retipped. I will ask them if them see residue on my old stylus.
Any short haired stylus brush will do. Just be gentle and brush from back to front. If you're getting a re-tip, you'll have a fresh slate with which to start so no worries there. Some people brush after every side of a record. I tend to brush after every listening session or so.
@@thevinylattack Thank you, Chris. I have learned a lot about static control from you. Have you ever experimented with using an air canister (not gas, but just air) after using a zero stat gun? I'm trying to find a way to touch my vinyl as little as possible, while still keeping dust off. I clean my records as soon as I get them (I have a VPI 16.5,), new or used, and then put them directly in new MoFi sleeves. The problem area is my record mat. I am experimenting with cork and suede leather. Do you have favorite/preference? I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Thank you for the support, Chris.
Sincerely,
Brad
@@bradhurlburt2227 I haven't needed to dust with air. My ultrasonic takes all the dirt out, and I just dust the records with a brush each play. My turntable also doesn't use a mat, so I don't have an issue there. Cork is a good material though. I'd look at some mats by Analog Restorations. Tell him I sent you.
I just had my 30 year-old Linn Troika rebuilt by Soundsmith this past spring due to a bent cantilever (thanks, Jim 🙄). It was rebuilt (retipped?) before by Linn in 1995 and again in 2004, until they stopped offering the service. I have been using the Onzow (and cleaned the Onzow many, many times) on my Troika for well over a decade since it first came out with no problems with damage or increased surface noise, etc. I took a photomicrograph of the stylus before I sent it to Soundsmith and it was perfectly clean with little wear. Upon receiving the cartridge, Soundsmith reported no problems with the Troika other than the bent cantilever, which they replaced. The Troika still sounds great, tracks like a champ, and may outlast me. I think I’ll continue to use the Onzow because years of experience taught me “Why not?”.
@@thevinylattack Thank you, Chris. I will!
Thanks for your no-nonsense approach to all subjects you cover. Great work.
My pleasure!
Thank you so much for the heads up on the cleaners. Always enjoy your video’s I forward it to my son also
I'm glad to hear it.
Great info. Even though I don't use a gel cleaner, I do use the Mofi stylus cleaning solution (maybe once a week, but I'm sure I'm putting on way too much at a time) in tandem with the Mofi stylus brush (a couple times a week). I'll be dialing back the use of the liquid for sure and increasing the use of the brush to daily. Thanks for the tips.
Happy to help.
@Bizzy Nomo What Mofi stylus cleaning solution is this? The small thick-glassed bottle with the pencil inside (and smell a bit like alcohol), that comes with the LP#9 stylus brush? Sorry for asking, but I have this kit, and would appreciate a feedback, or maybe a feedback from @The Vinyl Attack! if you know what solution is inside this bottle? Thanks. :)
@@rabarebra Yes, I continue to use the Mofi stylus cleaning solution and the LP#9 stylus brush. I've got no clue what the formula is in the Mofi bottle, but you can smell some alcohol, which isn't great for stylus' that are glued in place on the cantilever due to concerns it may dissolve that adhesive over time. I use the liquid cleaner on the stylus about every 10 LP's or so, and use the stylus brush daily or as needed. It's definitely a better solution than the gel pads that Chris showed in the video. I also use a carbon fiber brush prior to every LP play as well. I personally don't have big concerns about the Mofi solution, but am using it less often than I used to, just out of an abundance of caution.
Ugh!!!! just recently subscribed to your channel and find this!!! My Stylus cost more than my turntable! Looks like I need to find my stylus brush! will most likely have to buy one I think I through it out when I got my Onzow!
Unfortunately, I hear this a lot. The good news is that with a bit of work (depending on how gunked up your stylus is) you can clean off the residue and move on.
Great video, I too have a DS Audio gel cleaner I’m very interested in those results
As soon as I have that info, I'll be letting everyone know.
WOW thanks for the Heads up I have been using the ZeroDust on My Ortofon 2M Black but that stop NOW!!!!! With the cost of a Replacement being what it is I am NOT taking a chance so far there seems to be very little or no build up thank goodness, probably because even though I bought them at the same time over the years I have had them I do use it that often since i don't play dirty or dust record with my 2M Black though I will check my 2M Red as it is my sacrificial lamb so it gets cleaned the most often I am hoping that there will be Good news soon
If in the future, you will be doing a comparison of different stylist cleaners could you please include Blu tack. I have a Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC star cartridge. Peter Ledermann of Soundsmith recommends blu tack for cleaning the stylus on his cartridges. He does not recommend a liquid cleaner. I use blu tack and maybe every two or three months I will use a small amount of liquid stylist cleaner. I have not noticed any degradation of sound quality but would be very interested in your results if you decide to test Blu tack. Great video. Thanks for the info.
At the present, I don't think my usb microscope is powerful enough to see the residue but I'm certainly going to be checking it out.
I regularly take my entire turntable out to the driveway and hose it down with soap and water. Ha!
Seriously, I keep my records clean with the Spin Clean and Nitty Gritty vacuum. Mostly just distilled H2O. The stylus of my 3500 dollar cartridge meets clean grooves and may get a dry gentle brush. That’s it.
Thank you Chris, for a really good, pertinent video.
Thanks for checking it out.
I never went out to the driveway, but I used to regularly use a wet Brillo steel wool pad and polish the inside rim (then a good rinse!) of the inner platter of my vintage Thorens TD-124 where the rubber idler wheel contacts the inner rim. It noticeably reduced noise. That old aluminum does oxidize a bit. I used to do it about once a year…
This is really interesting. I have used the Onzow Zerodust for about 9 months now. I am going to hold off on using this for a while. I will use a dry brush for a bit.
Probably for the best.
Hi Chris, Thanks for another very important video. I am of the opinion that this problem starts with the release agent used during the pressing process. That is why every new record should get a gentle cleaning first time out of the sleeve, both sides. I use a proper mixture of distilled water and Turgiklean with a micro-fiber painters pad, rinse and dry. As for stylus cleaning, I use the same solution on a Q-tip being very careful to just lightly touch it to the needle without letting it flood up the cantilever. I then use a dry Bliss stylus brush, very gently, and always back to front. I never liked the idea of an adhesive gel cleaner because I feared it might be possible to pull the diamond off the cantilever. As vinyl lovers we all need to take a deep dive into the care and preservation of our precious record collections.
Well said, Tom.
From what I have read the release compound is part of the vinyl mixture, not something that is applied to the outside of the vinyl. Impossible to release mold compound if it is part of the vinyl mixture.
I think I might put my onzow to the side until further info is available. I have a stylus brush I could use, but I’m not sure it’s a very good one. Any suggestions on a good brush?
In my experience, the short hair brushes that come with almost all the liquid cleaners are the same.
I chose the Onzow because I didn’t want the residue that’s left on my hands when handling blue tack and Magic Eraser, on my stylus. I’m not an everyday Onzow user. I’m going to guess that the residue issues are more problematic with regular users. Thanks for featuring this topic.I look forward to learning more.
Thanks for tuning in.
@C Burgess Nice approach. I'd be concerned with the residue it would leave on the stylus though.
I've used zero dust for years and haven't seen or heard any problems with multiple cartridges. Will keep on doing my record cleaning with my In The Groove, record cleaner, carbon brush and zero dust. Don't like liquids and using brushes on my cartridge.
electronic brush that was invented 50 years ago is second to none in cleaning. People always have to push some bullshit product just for the sake of it
@@nickthenail there should be no residue at all unless you are using the magic eraser with detergents added.
I'd like to see how using gel-type cleaner for daily use, and every once in a while the mr. clean eraser to deal with residue from the gel (or just 2000 grit sandpaper?!?) would work.
Great video. Thank you for this information. I still use LAST stylus products. No issues. Take care.
I've heard good things about them.
would you recommend the project debut carbon evo as a first turntable for someone new to vinyl? what speakers and pre amp would you pair with it? thanks guys
This is something I have always wondered about - will it leave a residue. Anything sticky will leave some sort of residue, I would think. So I stopped using for the most part only a few months ago.
I had been using an Onzow for over a year on my precious Nagaoka MP-200 stylus, and now I'm really afraid that is ruined, and thus, also ruining my expensive records.
I'm hoping there is an easier way to get the gunk off the stylus without creating even more damage.
This is a very important video, in my opinion.
NO MORE ONZOW. I'm done.
If you're able, get as close a photo of your stylus as possible to check. J.R. said that when cleaning, he would wipe the stylus for two minutes straight or more in some cases. The idea is that the friction increases heat and helps the residue come off easier. He then threw that brush away as it was contaminated.
@@thevinylattack...I took a few pics like you said, as close as I could possibly get with my phone. From looking at the pics, it looks OK, but it's the smaller, microscopic stuff that I'm kind of worried about.
Thanks for sharing JR'S advice...I'm going to try to clean it that way he had described.
Thanks Chris 👍
@@MJEvermore853 Happy to help. Just remember, be slow and be careful.
Same here!
If you are worried what your stylus looks like under an electron micro scope why even bother with vinyl. Your listening to your equipment and not enjoying the music. Stylus and records are consumable products by design.
Hi Chris, I was going to do a similar video on this topic soon, but you have beaten me to it. I have said the same thing about the gel products some time ago. I used an Onzow on my Shure V15V-MRx with a Jico SAS stylus and found exactly what you have said, a build up of hard gunk on the stylus. A friend of mine (a serious audiophile) who is a food industry scientist, has access to a electron microscope and he had his 20k Koetsu cartridge suddenly loose its clarity so he took it to the office and called me about it. We looked at the Jico SAS stylus we found the same thing however the Shure V15V-MR which has never seen a gel cleaner was perfect. I have gone back to using the Audio Technica AT-637 Ultra-sonic cleaner in my Jico SAS Shure and my Ortofon 2m Black. The AT-637 cleaned all three stylii perfectly. The Flux unit works as well but u=is super expensive in Australia. We checked the Gel record cleaners that seem to be popping up under various names including project. They all appear to have the same properties including the stylus cleaners. The record cleaners also leave a residue on the records as well. I only use the AT-637 now for my stylus'. I certainly do not let the gel near my records......The Magic Eraser unit can be problematic because of the cleaning agent in it and its reaction to moisture, a better choice would be to buy a sheet of melamine from the Hardware store instead which has no chemicals (you still have to use it carefully)......Take care. Great video. I have probably made myself a target for abuse now too.
BTW: anyone using the record cleaning gels should use powderless medical or cooking latex/silicone gloves because these gels literally suck the oils out of your skin then deposit them onto your records leaving a oily, slimy film on the record which can if done regularly may cause a wooshing sound on the record.......
Thanks for sharing your experience here. I'm hearing more and more tales like this which just goes to show that the event is real.
@@thevinylattack yw, it is a real problem. I only use my AT-637 Dry Ultrasonic vibrator unit. Had a flux unit but sold it since the AT and Flux worked exactly the same.
I use an audio Technica AT617-a gel cleaner, and haven't noticed any degradation yet. I do use a cabron brush for quick wipes in between though.
Same… AT says it’s composition is polyurethane gel. More info than DS Audio or Oznow.
I'm glad to hear you're not having issues.
Ive just grabbed the instruction leaflet for my MP-500 and they recommend the 801/2 fluid which of course is Nagaoka's own product.
I've frequently been using the Oznow Zerodust as it seemed to be the best option at the time of purchase. I cant say I've noticed any degradation to sound but as it's been used so often maybe there's nothing further to notice after the first couple of "cleans"
After watching this video I'm certainly willing to switch to Nagaoka's fluid or something similar.
Keep us posted, all very interesting so far.
You'll be the first to know as I hear more.
I to have a MP-500 and have been cleaning it for two years now with their cleaner and have not had any problems using it.
Be sure to remove the fluid with something absorbent, air-drying leaves residue
@@johnw.graovac8030 Thank you for the input, I've just ordered their cleaning fluid.
@@Grrrr3FKAGrrrrGrrrrGrrrr thank you for the advice.
After discovering this phenomenon thru blogs that were prompted by Mr Fremer and some other credible gentleman - yes I find Mr Fremer very credible. Thanks for covering it further. A worry some dilemma for Onzow users as I am. Fortunately, I hope, I brush 90% and gel approx. 10% so I hope that's minimized my damage. Cheers to you. Greg
I felt like people would definitely want to know.
Fremer pushes high end audio snake oil. I take anything he has to say with a mountain of salt.
@@dougmacmillan1712 There's nothing being pushed here though and Fremer only reported on the findings of someone else.
@@dougmacmillan1712 I first formed that opinion about his work after he kept talking about magic no one understands while reviewing some electronic gear, as if the circuits were made randomly , and then the opinion was locked in after he recommend a device as positively needed to de-magnetize a vinyl record, and it wasn't cheap. I guess I will have to now give him credit for productive work, but it is a struggle , releasing a hole card to play against a published audio writer, takes away my secret I know better position.
Was also using Onzow. Under microscope my stylus is covered in gunk. Used the Flux cleaner, which I also own and it did a great job of removing it. Will avoid gels for now until we know more and revert to dry brush.
A solid plan of action.
I’ll be getting the Flux for Xmas😉. How many cleans did you have to do to get it all clean?
@@nielsoe8970 One clean is sufficient to get stuck on goop off - it's very effective.
Wow. Food for thought! Maybe this is why my cartridge is sounding a bit off. Thanks for posting!!
Glad to help.
Thanks for the video. I'll stop using my Zerodust for now and stick with the stylus brush. Let us know if you find out and additional information.
I've heard back from Onzow, but nothing helpful as of yet and I'll definitely drop a video as things develop.
I have a 21 month old cartridge that has been cleaned only with Onzow Zerodust, and fine abrasive paper. I looked at it through a mircroscope. There was residue all over the cartridge, except on the stylus and on the area of the cantilever next to the stylus, where the Onzow had removed the residue.
I used the Zerodust as well, and have been tracking the news about it. I've shelved mine until further information comes out, but I'm expecting I'll have to trash it in the end. Huge shame to hear that the people bringing this to light are getting flack for it, seems everyone thinks someone else is pushing an agenda... Hope you're not getting any hate for this video, it mostly summarized things I'd picked up but had some new details that I appreciate. Thank you for helping spread the word!
I'm not getting nearly as much heat as J.R. or Fremer, but I'm getting my fair share. I don't mind really. That's just idiots on the internet being idiots on the internet. I'm glad you found the video useful, that was the entire idea.
This is interesting for sure, but I have some things to point out: the 40 person sample size is very small plus there didn't seem to be any control for other factors as well (the two people who bought used cartridges for example). Then we need to compare the manual brushing in the same conditions, with gel type stylus cleaners or what have you.
Thanks for the info. A reddit user in the vinyl subreddit turned me onto your channel, specifically in reference to this video.
I'd say with the well over 50 cases I've heard about now that, while not a large sample size, the problem is directly linked to the gel type cleaners. Does it mean that every one of them will cause this? No. But it does show that it's gel cleaners causing it and that's not a risk I'm willing to take personally. I'm glad you found the channel :-)
@@thevinylattack Were other factors controlled for such as age of cartridge, average time used playing, condition of albums used with said cartridge, etc.?
In other words a presumed single outcome tied to gel cleaning solutions might not be the full story.
I'm happy to wait for more research with more data to see if there's a substantive trend as well.
Thanks for broaching this topic. It's fairly niche but interesting as it seems a lot of advice given is experiential and anecdotal and rarely examined in such a capacity.
@@latetotheparty7551 While I can see where you're going with your line of questioning, I'd say that none of those factors matter. Does the gel cleaner leave residue? The answer is yes. Does it do it for everyone? It would seem not, but again, that's not a risk I'm willing to take. Of course, as soon as I hear more, you will too.
@@thevinylattack Looking forward to it.
Curious on what your thoughts of using a dry Mr. Clean’s Magic Eraser to lowering your stylus on to for cleaning purposes ?
I haven't tried it myself, but I'm putting it on my list now.
Ive tried it works for the most part. But get nervous every time i would put the needle down. i prefer a light brush
@@s.t.e.r.e.o.
I wouldn’t think it would be any different than lowering it on a gel!
I find it works well, used with care it has prolonged the life of my stylus greatly for very little cost- would be similarly curious for other opinions on this method
This is my best alternative. Who knew mr clean was into vinyl??
Hi Chris!Thank you for this video!
I stopped using it!
….Is three a Better option out there?
The general consensus is just a nice dry stylus brush.
Amazing microphotographs. My Nikon stereo microscope doesn't have the depth of field for such photos. I'll start looking for that residue on my client's cartridges, though.
Best of luck.
I’ve using the Audio Technica AT617a stylus cleaner. It’s a flat surface tacky firm gel. They’ve been shipping it for years, long before the Zero Onzow hit the market. I’ve never heard about any issues with the product, but yet no one has used an electron microscope to identify the problem before….
Personally, I'm leary of all gel type cleaners now. I don't see how one would leave deposits and another wouldn't when they're all based around adhesive cleaning.
I stopped using my zero dust back in February of this year, after purchasing a high magnification usb microscope ($25 Amazon) and seeing up close the amount of residue that was accumulating on my stylus (MC Ortofon quintet red). It was to far gone to deep clean, so had to replace with new cart (MC Ortofon quintet bronze).
I’m a bit neurotic about keeping my stylus clean and free of debris, and couldn’t put my finger on what was the issue with “slowly degrading sound separation” from this amazing cart (imho).
Sure enough, as I zoomed in closer with the microscope, I noticed a “melted silicone/ used eraser dust” like material all over the stylus.
Since acquiring new cart, my method has been:
1. Dry soft brush in between each flip (groove washer kit)
2. Damp brush (Kirmuss audio KAN1 cleaning solution ) before dropping each record
3. Allowed to dry for 15 seconds, dry brush, play and enjoy.
I’m not one to bash anyone or a particular company, but since I stopped using the zerodust, I haven’t had issues since then.
Hope this helps…rock on!
I'm hearing more and more stories just like this. I'm glad you found some good use of this episode.
thanks for the information. I thought I was slick when I bought the onzow product, assuming the price of purchase involved detailed product development suitable for a critical market, but it seems the critics had the last word. once again, knowledge is power, while the trash gets my presumed end of search tip cleaner.
Glad I could help.
Thank you so much for this. I'm using a similar product from HudsonHIFI, but until there's more information available, I think my stylus brush is going into full service once again.
I have never liked the idea of gel cleaners because I've always figured they would either leave a residue, or hold on to the stylus and bend the cantilever downward or out of shape. My method has always been the same for the last 7 years I have been in the hobby, just a soft brush ran across my stylus every side of a record I play, and cleaning each record I buy thoroughly with the spin clean or the ultrasonic now that I have one. I also make sure to take macro photos of my stylus every once in a while to make sure they are still clean and in good condition. I still have the cartridge I started out with (the Nagaoka MP-110 with original stylus) relegated to the "well loved" records, and I save my AT33Sa for my good condition records, and I have never had issues with buildup on any of my stylus.
It would seem you were ahead of the curve. Well done.
Wow sinchronicity or what iv'e sent away for a "stiff short hair brush" and fluid cleaner ,it just hit the door mat as i'm watching this vlog . I have been using Audio techica gel but not too often so i to will hold fire until we know more , thanks for posting
very useful to know .
Happy to help.
I have a stylus cleaning brush that came with my Ortofon 2M red I use on that and my Elys 2 on my Riga P3 and that seems to work okay for me. I have always been leery about any type of gel product. Not just that, but the price tag for those items is pretty high.
The prices for this gel stuff is nuts....yet I was still foolish enough to purchase one for myself
Sounds like you're already on the right path.
Thanks for the info I've seen others in the music UA-cam videos talk about it but glad I've never bought it I've got 300 ish 33s since the 70s think I'll stick to my old fashioned brush for the stylist never had a problem with it
Happy to help.
Using Audio-Technica AT617a. I don't know if this has the same problem.
Maybe the residue needs time to evaporate before we put it back into the dirty grooves?
If it's a gel type cleaner, the chances are you'll have the same results. I don't think gel evaporates.
Yes, I have seen some sort of sticky staff around my stylus. It's the same fashion as in the picture you've shown. Concern? Very. Stopped using? Yes.
I hope you can clean it off with relative ease.
I’ve been using Project Vinyl Clean to clean my records for years. It seems fine and it gets the records a hell of a lot cleaner than using a brush alone.
This gel-ball doesn't work at all, it also leaves a residue on your records. Avoid it for all costs!
Almost bought the Onzow zerodust, but did some "googling" first. Luckily I found the article on Analogplanet and this YT video. I saw in one of the comments down below that you got an email from Onzow, but nothing new came to its surface. Did you ever hear more from them after this email? I may think many of us like to know, and especially what residue is in their product. Many would probably say that "they can't tell, it is their secret", BS, I'd like to know what is put on to my precious stylus.
Thanks so much. Is it the same stuff for Audio-Technica AT617a?
I'd imagine AT has their own proprietary blend, but I can't imagine it not leaving residue. That's just the nature of the beast.
I use blue tack cause that what the guy who makes soundsmith carts recommends using but I think I will be getting a carbon fiber stylus brush w the recommended solution recommended by Sumiko
I can't say that I blame you. Better safe than sorry here.
I use LAST no4. Never had a problem with it. I used it on my same Rega Exact cart for over 6 years before i changed the cart and never a problem with it and it stayed perfectly clean when looking at it with a 60x lens. It lasts a long time as well as I'm still using the same bottle I bought almost 7 years ago.
I'm glad to hear it's working for you.
I found my Onzow cleaner became more gel like and softer after about 12-18 months. When the stylus was lowered on it you could see it really sticking as it was removed. I since replaced with a new Onzow and it's much firmer. I think when I got my first one I was under the impression that it lasted a long time and you could just clean it periodically with water but seems you really need to replace these I would say every 12 months. I wonder if people with residue problems are using older Onzwows as I don't think it's well documented how often to replace these
It's a very real possibility.
I think you are spot in there. I moved house/country at the start of the year, finally got the system set up and a few weeks later, found that the sound was rubbish. Haven't got a microscope so got the best photo I could with my phone and lo, covered in gunk. The Onzow is at least 5 years old. Cleaned it as best I could and am about to fit an Ortofon Blue but the Onzow had indeed been washed many, many times. Time for the bin.
Dang, I wish I had seen this before I got the Onzow. I wonder how many applications are needed to affect playback. Anyhow, I get a stylus brush and will use it for now.
I'd imagine it's a fair bit of regular use, so I wouldn't panic.
Thanks for the info. I just canceled my order of gel cleaner. Better safe than sorry. I will wait for final results before using a gel cleaner.
A good idea. There was an update video that explains what the problem was with the gel. You might watch that if you're interested.
Using the AT617a Audio Technica stylus cleaner here - I've recently examined my stylus tip using one of those hobbyist USB microscopes and didn't see any deposits from the gel. You can get pictures almost as good as the ones you showed in your video if you are patient with a USB microscope. I'm puzzled as to how the stylus cleaner could possibly leave deposits on the cantilever as shown in some of the pictures. The gel only contacts the stylus NOT the cantilever so I'd be more inclined to believe that the deposits may actually be from the surface of the vinyl. I wonder what cleaning solution and processes are being used by those stylus owners for their record collections?
If there's a way for someone to misuse a cleaning product, I'm certain they'll find it.
Haha love the 'dramas' in the vinyl and audiophile communities, for which there's obviously overlap.
Really appreciate this video as I was close to buying a kit with a gel cleaner!
There will always be some sort of curfuffle when it comes to audio. I'm just glad you got something from the video. Thanks for watching.
@@thevinylattack Yes, I've enjoyed a lot of your content, especially the series around (reducing) static solutions.
@@mikexcopeland I apreciate it.
I was once told by a hobbyist to use a Magic Eraser, and gently drop the needle down onto the pad and lift it straight up without using any brushing motion, do that several times, but I stopped using that since I couldn't find any information if it would damage the needle or not.
The magic eraser isn't hard enough to cause damage to a diamond stylus, but I also don't know that it'll really clean it either. It's on my list to test.
One of my dealers, Galen Carol, warned me against using products like Zerodust years ago.
Guilty…been using one of the cheap knock-off brand gel cleaners as Zero Dust seemed overpriced, like paying for the name. Admittedly, sometimes you get what you pay for in quality, like Nike’s and Hondas, I was willing to drive the Hyundai to test the waters. Thank very much for bringing this to our attention, will just use my stylus brush for a while.
I'm glad you found it useful.
Invaluable information. Many thanks. 👍
No problem.
I have a microscope/ camera attached and focused to the spot my needle lands when in the arm rest. So I see what it looks like after every play. Interesting how little or much accumulation there is from record to record. I have found my old Discwasher SC1 does a great job and is very safe even with these older shaky hands.
And did you find the onzow leaving residue in your experience?
@@ajmoore2201 Can't say I used it consistently enough to develop a track record. Because of difficulty using it in my system I used it the least out of my arsenal.
I did also get a Hudson HiFi UV Stylus cleaner which after using I found lots of short carbon fibers all over the cantilever from. Back to the SC1.
When I bought the zero dust, I was told it is a piece of rubber. Just put it underneath the cartridge with the tone arm raised. It just requires you to lower the tone arm like you"re playing an LP. I believe the gel that gets caught with up the cartridge. I believe the gel will be in the way of the cantilever, so will affect the sound as it restricts the movement of the cantilever.
The gel is sticking to whatever it touches.
Also,thank you for the heads-up
Thank you for this video!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks: Was planning to buy one!
Glad it helped.
Yikes.. Yeah I saw Michael's report before I saw this video. I was about to buy one of those too.. Glad I didn't! I've used blue tac in the past, but I won't be doing that anymore either. Think I'll just stick with the standard brush and some sort of cleaning fluid once in a while and maybe a little bit of magic eraser if needed. Cheers
Sounds like the best plan of action at the moment.
I use dry brush only....I have a 30x or 50x lens to view stylus tip and determine if it needs a dry brush. I use to use liquid cleaners but these left a residue on my old stylus.
Dry brush is quickly becoming the go-to for a lot of people.
Thank you! What about audio-technica AT 607 Stylus Cleaning Formula? Sometime I user it.
I have no experience with it, but as with any liquid cleaner I would say use VERY little when cleaning your stylus.
@@thevinylattack Thanks.