Thats a really good point. At least the republic was mostly highly wealth and cruel politicians who used half honorable men as pawns and had a cultists leader as a boss.
@@asscheeks3212 No the entire war was a massive scare tactic to consolidate power for Sheev. Truth is there weren't any "sides" or "factions". Just Sheev and a bunch of puppets organized to appear to be armies.
Both sides were being used, so quite a Tragic heroism to both factions. I sympathize with the CIS & their desire to be self governed by a non corrupt entity like the Old Republic. Still, they committed a fair amount of evil during the war. Many could be blamed on their leaders but the CIS chose them so they are not absolved.
How evil you act in a Fight doesnt rely completly on your self(implying you want to win of course). Immagine you have a Fist Fight against an equally strong Opponent but he decides to fight "evil" and uses more than Fists, you can A: be the good and continue to only fight with your Fists and loose B: being evil as well to negate his Advantage and maybe win
in every war both sides commit atrocities and if an atrocity committed means that side is evil, then every single side is evil. war and the loss of innocent lives itself is evil no matter who or what side it is that takes them.
The cis just being in the war doesn't do them many favors either. The republic didnt have the means to stop them from seceding. Building a droid army to attack the republic is kinda a dick move. Idk how dooku justified it to the masses. Propaganda I guess. I assume if a hypothetical cis wasn't lead by corporations and dooku they would've just seceded
@@endermahns Because the Republic would not recognize them and the senate was debating the military creation act. Dooku likely argued without a military to defend them it would only be a matter of time before the Republic militarized and tried to reincorporate the worlds by force. That by building a droid army, they could scare the Republic into accepting their secession.
You can interpret the roles that the CIS and Republic played in the war with their color symbolism: The Republic, who's vehicles and ships are painted in red, an aggressive "bad guy" color, is on the politically "bad" side of the conflict when considering that their motivation is buy-in-large to preserve an unequal unity in the galaxy. The lasers that they shoot, however, are blue, a calmer and more "good guy" color, which symbolizes that their execution and approach to the conflict, led by the Jedi Order, is more pure and humanitarian. The Separatists are the exact opposite according to the colors. Their ships and vehicles are blue, showing that they have good intent when considering the motivations of most of their member systems, but the ammunition they fire is red and their pursuit of conflict is hostile and riddled with ethically questionable tactics and civilian targets.
In my opinion, the good guys were individual systems, like Naboo, Mandalore or Alderaan who wanted a peaceful resolution to the conflict and an end to suffering and corruption. It’s no wonder why senators like Organa and Mothma were some of the few people who stayed loyal to the republic even after it fell and why the New Republic, which attempted to fix the problems of the old republic were led by such individuals
Bail, Padme, and Mon were not neutral in the conflict. They were part of the Republic, but had empathy for the Separatist cause. However, they believed in fixing the systemic issues of the Republic and not seceding from it. In other words, they were loyal to the Republic, not to its leader.
Deliveranze 33 that’s what I mostly ment, I just included mandalore because of how pacifist they were. I still believe the republic is the lesser of two evils since there was theoretically a chance to right it’s wrongs through the senate unlike the Separatists who were run by a corporate autocracy
@@joeclark1893 a corporate autocracy who actuall got sh*** done regarding rampaging Warlords, Pirates and so on. The Republic on the other Hand couldnt be bothered to do anything in the outher Rim till the People there decided there is no point in being part of the Republic
I say the pacifist factions in the republic and separtist senates, MOST of the jedi, regular citizens from both sides and neutral systems were the "good guys" everyone else was bad. The sith, corperations, hutts, violent mandalorians, all bad.
@@jedijournal9159 too bad dooku killed the true mandaloreans. They were off to such a good start but then were not careful n got played by vizla. Im glad boba took care of biznez n did what palpi was supose to do.
I mean... one side was fighting against the republic and democracy, the other side killed liberty with thunderous applause so it's pretty clear there's only bad guys
This is a great topic to emphasize that "protagonist" is not synonymous as "good guy" and antagonists aren't always "bad guys." The honest answer to the question, however, is that both sides were fighting for the truth as they saw it. The only true bad guys were Palpatine/Sidious and his apprentice at whatever moment you look at. The Separatist leaders were doing what they were told by Sidious, while the Clone Army was systematically used, abused, and tossed aside when they weren't useful any more.
I say because Dooku was a laid off leader. It seems he wasn't as powerful in his role as Palpatine was who was gathering more unilateral decision making. Along with that i'm sure Raxus a pleasure world for CIS execs and leadership. So they'd funnel their profits there and make it look good
@@torntokoroa kind of, the confederacy was also less centralized and the corrupt aspects were mostly in the war council rather than the civilian government (set up this way by the sith to help create more legitimate CIS propaganda). as for it being a pleasure world? it was not affiliated with any of the corporations. it was clean because it wasn't a planet-wide city.
“ One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist, and vice versa. Some of us clones definitely thought that we were the good guys. I would have to say that I feel like I can claim some square meter of the moral high ground since I didn’t shoot any civilians.” -CS/CT-8711-12 “Cheng”, Captain and Scout of the 442nd Siege Battalion
Indiana Jones I guess you could technically say it is a fanon character, but I think I’m gonna write some thing about it. I have a thing where I respond to geetsley video headlines as some anecdote of some Washed Out hero from the Clone Wars era Who was maimed by war and watched the fall of the republic into fascism but was able to use his skills to start a business that performs space survey operations (i.e. surveying astroids for valuable minerals) and limited mercenary/bounty work and be semi-successful. I guess he’s supposed to be an anomaly, but he definitely has seen his days of conformity. Also, if all is about him is true, this might change various lore pieces, but in a constructive manner. For example, many clone troopers, including this one, rather than being retired after receiving a Trumatic injury to a limb, many of these were replaced with prosthetics and the troopers would continue to fight in the war. Additionally, after reaching middle adulthood, about 30% of surviving clones ceased their accelerated aging and suddenly began to age at a normal pace. It is an anomaly of unknown nature and the Kaminoans were looking into it, and finally, how inhibitor chip actually worked, and simply rely more on the brainwashing and indoctrination to get the clones to commit atrocious acts. Anyway, that’s my two cents about the clone wars.
The non sith/corporation separatists, since they just wanted what was best for their planets but got grouped in with the bad guys, and the clones because clones. There you go
I think a better way to put it is there weren’t any good sides but there were good people trying to do the right thing. Sadly those good people were consumed by evil at the end. Also let’s be honest . Rex, anakin, ahsoka, obi wan, padme, senator bail organa and people such as Them were actually good
Were there any alien species that weren't second class citizens under the Empire? And if not, could individually powerful individuals overcome that stigma (besides Thrawn) ?
Mas Amedda (Horned guy always next to palpatine) and Sly Moore (Pale girl always next to palpatine) were individuals like Thrawn whose species were seen as second class but rose above that because of their political abilities. Mas was Chagrian and Sly was Umbaran.
One group of good guys was the Coalition of Neutral Systems under Duchess Satine. Sadly we barely saw any of the members of this coalition, but as far as we know the coalition tried to get both factions to just sit down and talk. Sure, it inevitably collapsed thanks to the Death Watch coup for Mandalore, but they tried to maintain the moral high ground until they fell. Remind me of the quote "Among other evils being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be dispised".
It also says a lot about Anakin when he simply holds that the Republic isn't corrupt at all and any dissension towards the corruption is the same as being a Separatist.
Chancellor Valorum announces that he will allow the CIS to leave upon signing various non aggression treaties. *Palpatine:* _Fuck,…_ I never considered that.
Just after clicking on the video I paused it and ranted for almost 30 minutes about how neither the separatists nor the Republic were fully good guys. All in all: I could've not been talking to myself for half an hour and have my jaw not hurt. Very good video except for that ;p
The CIS I feel we’re actually the good guys in this situation. If it wasn’t for the banking clans, sidious’ influence, dooku, grievous, ventress, and other benevolent characters, it wouldn’t have had the reputation it did during the clone wars. I mean most species and planets that fought for the confederacy aided the rebel alliance during the GCW.
Honestly that isn't much of a theory. It very nearly happened on multiple occasions. Most-notably, the only Jedi Palpatine truly feared was Qui-Gon Jin, who was not blinded like the Jedi were, who would have almost-certainly sniffed out Palpatine after the events of The Phantom Menace had he survived. Qui-Gon wasn't the best swordsman, nor was he a major practitioner of Force abilities. But he did have a very strong connection to the whole of the Force. He was the one who sussed out the Chosen One and saw him before anyone else did. He was the one who defied a stagnant Jedi council content with the tepid status quo. He was the one who believed in the good of the galaxy over the light of the galaxy, whereas the Jedi Order had been trained to believe the exact opposite. Had Qui-Gon survived, Palpatine would have easily been made well before the Clone Wars--probably even before Master Sipho Deus was killed. But if Qui-Gon had been around during the time of the Clone Wars, he would have easily been one of the front-runners in leading the charge against Palpatine if he found out.
I like the overall vibe of the CIS. It had some good models but was corrupt from the start with the council poisoning things. The republic wasn’t any better with palatine beginning to spin his web. It’s a choice of water with mud in it and water with oil in it, and I can’t decide which is which.
I don't know if I agree with that. I'd like to draw comparison to Julius Caesar and his consulship and dictatorship of Rome, resulting in it's conversion to an Empire from a Republic. Rome as a Republic was already on life support, Caesar was just the guy who pulled the plug. It's system of government was so weak and ineffectual that three men with enough resources and connections were able to drastically change and essentially control the government with little to no repercussions (At least until they turned on each other) Basically Rome either becomes a monarchy or it collapses entirely. Sidious is the same way, he manipulated the normal flow of government for his own ends. But the Republic was also very much likely to collapse on its own without him. It was just too screwed up to survive without making serious changes.
Questions like this are why I prefer the clone wars over the galactic civil war. While now the civil war era is getting some much needed grey it still boils down to heroic band of misfits vs an evil regime.
if Palpatine really needed a war to rearm the Republic in preparation for the Vong he could have just gone to war with the Hutts and do the whole Galaxy a favour.
You know what i always wondered... The republic was avid about the rescue of Jabba's son so they could "move unhindered through Hutt space" The Hutts had enough might to challenge the separatists' and the GAR's navies, along with considerably talented bounty hunters on their payroll. So why couldn't he mount a rescue operation on his own??? 🤔🤔🤔
I thought that was the point of the debate at the end of the clone wars. They had to give palpatine emergency powers to use the clone army. Tons of senators like padme opposed the creation of the army. Otherwise, I love this video man! Your content is awesome
There were no official good guys, BUT there were 2 subgroups that were, one of which was not even touched upon in this video. The first group, were the Republic supporters who did not support a drawn out war, who wanted to return to diplomatic talks, and wanted to address the corruption in the Senate. Senator Amidala, Mon Mothma, and Organa were all members of this growing subgroup. Maybe at first they were blind to the true extent of the Senate's corruption, but as the war dragged on they had their doubts and this is why they eventually founded the Rebellion during the last days of the Republic. The second group, as another commenter pointed out, were the non-corporate world's of the Separatists. While they did reject the Republic's corruption I think they only went along with the Separatists because they thought that their people would at least do better under Separatist rule than the Republic's rule. Similar to the first group, and I think legends touched on this as well, this group also had their doubts and would eventually join and help the Rebels once they revealed themselves as a faction fighting against the newly formed Empire.
Agreed. In fact, in looking for some resemblance of "Good" in the Force, all one can find is True Neutrality. The use of the Force is what determines any moral observation. It is a tool.
The whole clone wars IMO was a means of the force to cleanse the veeeeery flawed current generations of Jedi who by choosing the will of the Republic was the same as that of the force disturbed it's balance, so much I believe this to be so that the Jedi order formed by Luke was considerably more effective but also returned to their roots as enforcers of the will of the force.
Products and, more specifically, military equipment. Even their military ranks are more window dressing than anything. If one falls out of line, it is very likely that they would just be killed. Look at how quickly Krell was able to just decide to kill Fives and Jesse. And even in Rebels, when Rex is captured, the Imperial officer interrogating him basically calls him a defective piece of equipment. The Kaminoans actually treat them a bit more like, well, pets. Nala Se even tries to justify Tup's euthanasia by telling everyone that it would be the kinder option instead of actually trying to save him, just like how someone might a sick dog.
I personally would support the Republic, mainly because I've seen the nobility and goodwill of many of the Jedi and Clones, despite the corruption that plagued the Republic. However, like anything, what side a person chooses will depend on their point of view and what they're exposed too. For example, to the Togura people, after the Jedi and Clones bravely rescued them from the Zygeria Slavers, they felt the Republic was the good side to choose. The same can be said for those on Onderon after the CIS occupied and oppressed them, then the Jedi came to help them by training them and even going as far as to go against Republic rules to have Hando give them rocket launchers to protect themselves, it's like what Lux said at the end, "After seeing the nobility of the Jedi, it's clear the Republic is the side to be on." However, the reverse is also true, if your from New Pylmpto, then the Separatist offering to trade you for your eggs so you can eat and survive makes them seem like the heroes and good guys. Even the other factions could be seen as good from a certain point of view. For instance, if I had been personally wrong by Sideous like Maul and Mother Talzin were then I'd want to see him dead too, and given how evil he is killing him is always 100% good, I'd especially want to do it if he massacred my people like he did the Nightsisters.
This video is a great explanation of who the bad guys were I will say you did forget to mention the senetors because they made a great contribution to the war too great video tho xx
You could also factor in Satine's pacifist alliance. In THEORY, it was a noble thing to do and be, but in PRACTICE, well, one example was when Anakin had to kill Tal Merik in order to stop him from blowing up the ship they where on, which Satine refused to do, herself, and, thereby, nearly allowed it to happen.
Initial assessment before the video: Republic. Reason? Because it has the mechanisms for positive change built in to it. The CIS? Did not. Now I watch and see...
I'd have chose the CIS. For a few reasons. 1. They aren't Human-centric. 2. You can keep your culture and forms of government as a member, instead of being under the mass Republic beauracracy. 3. Their military is more moral. 4. The organic commanders they did field, generally were more competent than those of the Republic. Many of those on the Republic side being Jedi, but also the Clone Commanders, who while many were very skilled and strategic, others were too ingrained in the dogmatic commands they were given. (Side note). They Jedi Order does not seek balance. It seeks the 'Light side' of the force being the only one to exist. And some would argue that the Force doesnt have a side. In fact, before the 'Light side' Fanatics formed, the Jedii Order practiced a general belief in the Force, that had no sides, it just created life and regulated the changes in the universe. The 'Light side' Radicals really created dis-balance. Which formed the foundation for the Jedi-Sith tension's for the rest of Star Wars history since then. Particularly because those members who were researching other abilities and knowledge of the Force and such, weren't allowed to do so, thus creating resentment. And this doesn't even go into the Jedi methods in maintaining their Order..
Padmé Amidala and the people who followed her were the true heroes of that time. She never believed in the war to the very end. She believed in the good people of both sides. She just never had all the information and died in the end because of that.
jayvhon calma its extremely reasonable. Without the militarization that the galaxy had undergone in its decades of infighting, the entire galaxy would have been massacred by the Vong...
In a galaxy like Star Wars, I’d probably just end up in support for myself! Keeping my nose to the ground and minding my own business and helping out who I could when I could. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
I’d support the hapes consortium due to the fact that they were able to keep their independence through the clone wars plus the galactic civil war and onwards. If I’m correct the hapes were mainly a independent trade faction
Personally I would’ve formed my own faction and if it would be any section word ally with or simply outright willingly join it would be the Mandalorians for a list of reasons at the top of the list survival against all possible threats.
The individual systems of the CIS were usually good, as were some republic senators. However, the Empire was needed to save the galaxy from threats in the unknown regions.
I would have likely been on the side of the republic only to eventually desert once I realized the true extent of their misdeeds after going beyond my home in the core worlds. I feel Quinlan Vos on the state of the galaxy
In Star Trek's original series, Kirk and Spock were teamed with two of their personal heroes to fight against four of what they considered to be villains of the galaxy and pit them against each other to see which was stronger, good or evil. The powerful aliens who created the heroes and villains watched the battle but were confused because both sides fought using the same tactics. Kirk asked the aliens what they offered the villains. They answered they villains wanted wealth and power. Kirk then told them that he fought for the life of his crew because the aliens had to disable his ship so that it would spiral out of orbit and burn up in the atmosphere of the planet before Kirk agreed to participate in the battle. So what is the difference between good and evil? What you are fighting for.
The Jedi Order shouldn't have participated on the Clone Wars. The Galactic Republic was too corrupt and should have allowed the separation of any system that wanted it.
I think Alot of this conversation in the community focuses on the leadership of the factions and not what actully happens in the war itself. By that regard I'd go republic
To me it ultimately comes down to which side benefits me and people like me the most. As you've already proven in the video neither side would benefit me. So to me both sides are evil, and so I'd treat both sides as my enemy.
technically they were still part of the Republic but I did raise the same question. Should they be analyzed as their own group or as another subset of the Republic.
The good guys were the ones who subscribed to our second channel
👆
Really?
@@geetslys the miniature is Great
Im a good guy lets gooo
Got 3 ADD SEGMENTS in a 12 minute video 🤦♂️
The High ground was the “True Good Guy”.
I never realy did anything. My power is just a tool one can use to utterly vanquish their foes.
The high ground is an ability most consider to be .. unnatural
@The High Ground I am a big fan
I disagree
You should say the high ground was the morale highest
I think the phrase that best describes the clone wars is “war does not determine who is right, it determines who is left”.
Edit: thanks for the likes!
And damn, there weren't that many people left.
@@rosesweetcharlotte true.
We know the Jedi weren’t right, nor were they left
@@geetslys I love Star Wars philosophy. Don’t you?
@@geetslys damn crippled Jedi with their no hands yet still can move things with the Force
Nobody:
Palpatine: Slavery is a Sith tradition.
So funny my guy really not
@Gaius Wyrden what about the old sith empires? They were completely dependant on slavery
@Gaius Wyrden Because all those ancient Sith temples, and tombs you see in old Sith controlled worlds? All were built by slaves.
@@lordnazar6382 and there were slaves that could become acolytes and later on Sith Lords and Darths
@@marseldagistani1989 Only force sensitive slaves. But yeah, a small handful of them did survive, and end up Sith.
The conference was mostly highly wealthy cruel business men who used half honourable men as pawns also they have a cultist leader as a boss.
Thats a really good point. At least the republic was mostly highly wealth and cruel politicians who used half honorable men as pawns and had a cultists leader as a boss.
Battlemaster Gen Khan 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
So they are fighting a mirror basically?...
@@asscheeks3212 No the entire war was a massive scare tactic to consolidate power for Sheev. Truth is there weren't any "sides" or "factions". Just Sheev and a bunch of puppets organized to appear to be armies.
Both sides were being used, so quite a Tragic heroism to both factions.
I sympathize with the CIS & their desire to be self governed by a non corrupt entity like the Old Republic. Still, they committed a fair amount of evil during the war. Many could be blamed on their leaders but the CIS chose them so they are not absolved.
True
How evil you act in a Fight doesnt rely completly on your self(implying you want to win of course).
Immagine you have a Fist Fight against an equally strong Opponent but he decides to fight "evil" and uses more than Fists, you can
A: be the good and continue to only fight with your Fists and loose
B: being evil as well to negate his Advantage and maybe win
in every war both sides commit atrocities and if an atrocity committed means that side is evil, then every single side is evil. war and the loss of innocent lives itself is evil no matter who or what side it is that takes them.
The cis just being in the war doesn't do them many favors either. The republic didnt have the means to stop them from seceding. Building a droid army to attack the republic is kinda a dick move. Idk how dooku justified it to the masses. Propaganda I guess. I assume if a hypothetical cis wasn't lead by corporations and dooku they would've just seceded
@@endermahns Because the Republic would not recognize them and the senate was debating the military creation act. Dooku likely argued without a military to defend them it would only be a matter of time before the Republic militarized and tried to reincorporate the worlds by force. That by building a droid army, they could scare the Republic into accepting their secession.
You can interpret the roles that the CIS and Republic played in the war with their color symbolism:
The Republic, who's vehicles and ships are painted in red, an aggressive "bad guy" color, is on the politically "bad" side of the conflict when considering that their motivation is buy-in-large to preserve an unequal unity in the galaxy. The lasers that they shoot, however, are blue, a calmer and more "good guy" color, which symbolizes that their execution and approach to the conflict, led by the Jedi Order, is more pure and humanitarian.
The Separatists are the exact opposite according to the colors. Their ships and vehicles are blue, showing that they have good intent when considering the motivations of most of their member systems, but the ammunition they fire is red and their pursuit of conflict is hostile and riddled with ethically questionable tactics and civilian targets.
The empire had green lasers and the rebels had red so yeah lol
@@diegusmaximus9655 shhh it was working
This was very thoughtful, wow!
In my opinion, the good guys were individual systems, like Naboo, Mandalore or Alderaan who wanted a peaceful resolution to the conflict and an end to suffering and corruption. It’s no wonder why senators like Organa and Mothma were some of the few people who stayed loyal to the republic even after it fell and why the New Republic, which attempted to fix the problems of the old republic were led by such individuals
You mean the Neutrals?
Bail, Padme, and Mon were not neutral in the conflict. They were part of the Republic, but had empathy for the Separatist cause. However, they believed in fixing the systemic issues of the Republic and not seceding from it.
In other words, they were loyal to the Republic, not to its leader.
Deliveranze 33 that’s what I mostly ment, I just included mandalore because of how pacifist they were. I still believe the republic is the lesser of two evils since there was theoretically a chance to right it’s wrongs through the senate unlike the Separatists who were run by a corporate autocracy
@@deliveranze3342 Still they forced their Ideas of the "true" Republic on Peoples who just wanted to be left alone
@@joeclark1893 a corporate autocracy who actuall got sh*** done regarding rampaging Warlords, Pirates and so on.
The Republic on the other Hand couldnt be bothered to do anything in the outher Rim till the People there decided there is no point in being part of the Republic
The non corporation CIS had the moral high ground
I say the pacifist factions in the republic and separtist senates, MOST of the jedi, regular citizens from both sides and neutral systems were the "good guys" everyone else was bad. The sith, corperations, hutts, violent mandalorians, all bad.
@@jedijournal9159 too bad dooku killed the true mandaloreans. They were off to such a good start but then were not careful n got played by vizla. Im glad boba took care of biznez n did what palpi was supose to do.
As soon as they aligned themselves with the Sith, they lost any moral high ground. The ones with the moral high ground were the pacifist Mandalorians.
Considering how many of them joined to restart conflicts or enslave other worlds without anyone trying to stop them... debatable...
@@Werrf1 theres no point in having the moral high ground n not being able to defend it.
"There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere." -Revenge of the Sith opening crawl.
There was no good faction. Every side told themselves heroes, and the others the villains.
there are heroes on both sides, evil is everywhere
History is written by the victors
@@geetslys "And here I am, thinking that we won."
@@geetslys yet Clone Wars has no victor, except old Palp, lol
Unfortunately for you, history will not see it that way... *execute them.*
Unfortunately, in a war everyone, to some extent, is evil and everyone loses at the end....
CaptainRex _7567 may your days after the war be a good one Rex
I mean... one side was fighting against the republic and democracy, the other side killed liberty with thunderous applause so it's pretty clear there's only bad guys
As a clone I'm sure you can understand that basically everybody was a puppet ultimately for Palpatine
@@გიორგიმოსაშვილი-ო3დ the clones were the only good guys. They were literally created for the sole purpose of being used. They were innocent.
@@JeanLucCaptain Roger Roger!
there are heroes on both sides Evil is everywhere.
This is a great topic to emphasize that "protagonist" is not synonymous as "good guy" and antagonists aren't always "bad guys."
The honest answer to the question, however, is that both sides were fighting for the truth as they saw it. The only true bad guys were Palpatine/Sidious and his apprentice at whatever moment you look at. The Separatist leaders were doing what they were told by Sidious, while the Clone Army was systematically used, abused, and tossed aside when they weren't useful any more.
Very rarely do we see in media on how the ordinary people in the Confederacy lived. We only see the Jedi do stuff in the war.
When it comes to speciesm, the CIS was a lot better than the Republic, and I think that's a detail that's gone criminally unnoticed
Which is actually something Palpatine uses against them later on.
@Shayan This is unfair. Grievous asked for better droids on several occasions and Dooku vetoed it.
That's mixed, considering how they treated species like the twi'leks and how they were ok by commiting genodice in some other non-human species
The Clones truly believed for a cause that would betray them
Both sides were neither good or bad, each were merely pawns to the Sith Lord
Well everyone knows that but its the motives to both sides that differ than a Sith Lord pulling the strings to both sides.
Why is it Raxus loooked better than Coruscant and the Sepratist senate seemed so much more civilised
I say because Dooku was a laid off leader. It seems he wasn't as powerful in his role as Palpatine was who was gathering more unilateral decision making. Along with that i'm sure Raxus a pleasure world for CIS execs and leadership. So they'd funnel their profits there and make it look good
Torn Tokoroa yh
@@torntokoroa kind of, the confederacy was also less centralized and the corrupt aspects were mostly in the war council rather than the civilian government (set up this way by the sith to help create more legitimate CIS propaganda).
as for it being a pleasure world? it was not affiliated with any of the corporations. it was clean because it wasn't a planet-wide city.
“ One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist, and vice versa. Some of us clones definitely thought that we were the good guys. I would have to say that I feel like I can claim some square meter of the moral high ground since I didn’t shoot any civilians.”
-CS/CT-8711-12 “Cheng”, Captain and Scout of the 442nd Siege Battalion
Is this from a Star Wars novel? If so which one, sounds interesting to have a clone’s perspective
Indiana Jones I guess you could technically say it is a fanon character, but I think I’m gonna write some thing about it. I have a thing where I respond to geetsley video headlines as some anecdote of some Washed Out hero from the Clone Wars era Who was maimed by war and watched the fall of the republic into fascism but was able to use his skills to start a business that performs space survey operations (i.e. surveying astroids for valuable minerals) and limited mercenary/bounty work and be semi-successful. I guess he’s supposed to be an anomaly, but he definitely has seen his days of conformity. Also, if all is about him is true, this might change various lore pieces, but in a constructive manner. For example, many clone troopers, including this one, rather than being retired after receiving a Trumatic injury to a limb, many of these were replaced with prosthetics and the troopers would continue to fight in the war. Additionally, after reaching middle adulthood, about 30% of surviving clones ceased their accelerated aging and suddenly began to age at a normal pace. It is an anomaly of unknown nature and the Kaminoans were looking into it, and finally, how inhibitor chip actually worked, and simply rely more on the brainwashing and indoctrination to get the clones to commit atrocious acts. Anyway, that’s my two cents about the clone wars.
@Cheng Zhou nice, sounds interesting
So where can one read that fanfic story of yours? Sounds more interesting than Disney
Your comments are so awesome Cheng, I’d love to read your novel when it comes out and if you want to do it.
The only reason Palpatine was concerned for others was because he needed something from them or needed them to cause something.
Clone trooper be like: “I just want to kill some battle droids!”
The non sith/corporation separatists, since they just wanted what was best for their planets but got grouped in with the bad guys, and the clones because clones. There you go
True
Geetsly: who would you support.
Me: *HONDO INTENSIFIES*
Lets just say this there were no “good guys”during the clone wars era
I think a better way to put it is there weren’t any good sides but there were good people trying to do the right thing. Sadly those good people were consumed by evil at the end.
Also let’s be honest . Rex, anakin, ahsoka, obi wan, padme, senator bail organa and people such as Them were actually good
I’m sry, your name does seem like a lost cousin from New Jersey, but your comment: true
Were there any alien species that weren't second class citizens under the Empire?
And if not, could individually powerful individuals overcome that stigma (besides Thrawn) ?
There were ones who were left more alone, but the point was, if they proved to be a problem in any shape or form, it was bad.
Unfortunately the Empire was still very hostile to non-human species.
Mas Amedda (Horned guy always next to palpatine) and Sly Moore (Pale girl always next to palpatine) were individuals like Thrawn whose species were seen as second class but rose above that because of their political abilities. Mas was Chagrian and Sly was Umbaran.
One group of good guys was the Coalition of Neutral Systems under Duchess Satine. Sadly we barely saw any of the members of this coalition, but as far as we know the coalition tried to get both factions to just sit down and talk. Sure, it inevitably collapsed thanks to the Death Watch coup for Mandalore, but they tried to maintain the moral high ground until they fell. Remind me of the quote "Among other evils being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be dispised".
It also says a lot about Anakin when he simply holds that the Republic isn't corrupt at all and any dissension towards the corruption is the same as being a Separatist.
Plot wise: Yes. The Republic. Lmao
But lore wise. There isn’t a good side. Just a few good people on both sides.
"Droids will always be superior to organic soldiers." - Meatbag
Sad HK-47, HK-51, and HK-55 sad assassination protocol noises.
“Would you have supported another faction mentioned in this video”
Sure, the Yuzhan Vong
Speaks volumes that the insane space witch who was the most powerful nightsister until Tenel Ka only merits a passing mention in this list.
Good guy or bad guy, both of them just diffrent by the angle you look.
So don't judge someone because they're diffrent.
Chancellor Valorum announces that he will allow the CIS to leave upon signing various non aggression treaties.
*Palpatine:* _Fuck,…_ I never considered that.
Just after clicking on the video I paused it and ranted for almost 30 minutes about how neither the separatists nor the Republic were fully good guys. All in all: I could've not been talking to myself for half an hour and have my jaw not hurt.
Very good video except for that ;p
What Faction in what War since the dawn of Time would you consider "fully good guys"?
Those who were neutral were best because they committed 0 heinous acts in regards of the Clone Wars
and were dragged in the war with blockades and unjustified invasions from both sides
Hello there
General Kenobi, you are a bold one...
Ah yes the negotiator
* R2-D2 beeping noises *
GENERAL KENOBI
General Kenobi *random coughing fit*
The CIS I feel we’re actually the good guys in this situation. If it wasn’t for the banking clans, sidious’ influence, dooku, grievous, ventress, and other benevolent characters, it wouldn’t have had the reputation it did during the clone wars. I mean most species and planets that fought for the confederacy aided the rebel alliance during the GCW.
Great video but is the "history of the republic" series still on going? It's been a month since the last video and I'm growing worried
True good guy is
„My new empire”
I have an idea for a theory: what happened if the Jedi and the clones army turned against the republic and palpatine in the clone wars
Honestly that isn't much of a theory. It very nearly happened on multiple occasions. Most-notably, the only Jedi Palpatine truly feared was Qui-Gon Jin, who was not blinded like the Jedi were, who would have almost-certainly sniffed out Palpatine after the events of The Phantom Menace had he survived. Qui-Gon wasn't the best swordsman, nor was he a major practitioner of Force abilities. But he did have a very strong connection to the whole of the Force. He was the one who sussed out the Chosen One and saw him before anyone else did. He was the one who defied a stagnant Jedi council content with the tepid status quo. He was the one who believed in the good of the galaxy over the light of the galaxy, whereas the Jedi Order had been trained to believe the exact opposite. Had Qui-Gon survived, Palpatine would have easily been made well before the Clone Wars--probably even before Master Sipho Deus was killed. But if Qui-Gon had been around during the time of the Clone Wars, he would have easily been one of the front-runners in leading the charge against Palpatine if he found out.
@@QrazyQuarian yeah that’s a good point you make there
I like the overall vibe of the CIS. It had some good models but was corrupt from the start with the council poisoning things. The republic wasn’t any better with palatine beginning to spin his web. It’s a choice of water with mud in it and water with oil in it, and I can’t decide which is which.
The entire collapse of the galaxy could've been prevented by 1 abortion
For all we know someone else could have taken advantage of the situation, or who knows, it could have all happened on its own
I don't know if I agree with that.
I'd like to draw comparison to Julius Caesar and his consulship and dictatorship of Rome, resulting in it's conversion to an Empire from a Republic. Rome as a Republic was already on life support, Caesar was just the guy who pulled the plug. It's system of government was so weak and ineffectual that three men with enough resources and connections were able to drastically change and essentially control the government with little to no repercussions (At least until they turned on each other)
Basically Rome either becomes a monarchy or it collapses entirely.
Sidious is the same way, he manipulated the normal flow of government for his own ends. But the Republic was also very much likely to collapse on its own without him. It was just too screwed up to survive without making serious changes.
Because as we know, slaves have access to the credits needed to get one. >->
Questions like this are why I prefer the clone wars over the galactic civil war. While now the civil war era is getting some much needed grey it still boils down to heroic band of misfits vs an evil regime.
if Palpatine really needed a war to rearm the Republic in preparation for the Vong he could have just gone to war with the Hutts and do the whole Galaxy a favour.
You know what i always wondered...
The republic was avid about the rescue of Jabba's son so they could "move unhindered through Hutt space"
The Hutts had enough might to challenge the separatists' and the GAR's navies, along with considerably talented bounty hunters on their payroll.
So why couldn't he mount a rescue operation on his own??? 🤔🤔🤔
Oh I'm not brave enough for politics
Palatine is that one kid that seems silent and innocent but kill animals for fun
I always found the Clone Wars a very grey conflict, unlike the Galactic civil war
long live the CIS! also what about the CNS (Council of neutral systems)
I thought that was the point of the debate at the end of the clone wars. They had to give palpatine emergency powers to use the clone army. Tons of senators like padme opposed the creation of the army. Otherwise, I love this video man! Your content is awesome
There was no good or bad guys in the clone wars It was just Palpatine plan to destroy the Jedi knight
i don't think that there was a "Good Guys" in the clone wars because the two factions were controlled by one guy and it's palpatine
Happy New Year, Geetsly! This is Canon for me!
There were no official good guys, BUT there were 2 subgroups that were, one of which was not even touched upon in this video. The first group, were the Republic supporters who did not support a drawn out war, who wanted to return to diplomatic talks, and wanted to address the corruption in the Senate. Senator Amidala, Mon Mothma, and Organa were all members of this growing subgroup. Maybe at first they were blind to the true extent of the Senate's corruption, but as the war dragged on they had their doubts and this is why they eventually founded the Rebellion during the last days of the Republic. The second group, as another commenter pointed out, were the non-corporate world's of the Separatists. While they did reject the Republic's corruption I think they only went along with the Separatists because they thought that their people would at least do better under Separatist rule than the Republic's rule. Similar to the first group, and I think legends touched on this as well, this group also had their doubts and would eventually join and help the Rebels once they revealed themselves as a faction fighting against the newly formed Empire.
This is why I really like the Clone War era, there was no good side or bad side.
Agreed. In fact, in looking for some resemblance of "Good" in the Force, all one can find is True Neutrality. The use of the Force is what determines any moral observation. It is a tool.
concerning the "various other groups": You forgott the Mandalorians
Question: How did Palpi know of the Vongs Invasions before it happenend?
[4 months later] starwars outbound flight should give you some answers
If anything, the Soldiers of the CIS, Republic, rebels fighting against their enemy’s, and the people were the victims of the clone war.
Twi'leks: *exist*
Hutts and other slavers: "i SmElL pROfIt!!"
The whole clone wars IMO was a means of the force to cleanse the veeeeery flawed current generations of Jedi who by choosing the will of the Republic was the same as that of the force disturbed it's balance, so much I believe this to be so that the Jedi order formed by Luke was considerably more effective but also returned to their roots as enforcers of the will of the force.
There is no rights or wrongs in a war, there are only consequences.
I wouldve been a Separatists like the Bomteri family
History is written by the victors
*Survivors
We're just the Rebel Alliance, only we send droids to die for our freedom rather than people, usually.
Glory to the CIS!!!
"War isn't about who's right or wrong, but who's left, after all, history is writen by the victors"
Are clones really classified as real people or products
Products and, more specifically, military equipment. Even their military ranks are more window dressing than anything.
If one falls out of line, it is very likely that they would just be killed. Look at how quickly Krell was able to just decide to kill Fives and Jesse. And even in Rebels, when Rex is captured, the Imperial officer interrogating him basically calls him a defective piece of equipment.
The Kaminoans actually treat them a bit more like, well, pets. Nala Se even tries to justify Tup's euthanasia by telling everyone that it would be the kinder option instead of actually trying to save him, just like how someone might a sick dog.
@@rosesweetcharlotte I'd say circus animals. If they don't do and act the way I want, they're defective
@@WikiHL Excellent comparison.
I personally would support the Republic, mainly because I've seen the nobility and goodwill of many of the Jedi and Clones, despite the corruption that plagued the Republic.
However, like anything, what side a person chooses will depend on their point of view and what they're exposed too.
For example, to the Togura people, after the Jedi and Clones bravely rescued them from the Zygeria Slavers, they felt the Republic was the good side to choose. The same can be said for those on Onderon after the CIS occupied and oppressed them, then the Jedi came to help them by training them and even going as far as to go against Republic rules to have Hando give them rocket launchers to protect themselves, it's like what Lux said at the end, "After seeing the nobility of the Jedi, it's clear the Republic is the side to be on."
However, the reverse is also true, if your from New Pylmpto, then the Separatist offering to trade you for your eggs so you can eat and survive makes them seem like the heroes and good guys.
Even the other factions could be seen as good from a certain point of view. For instance, if I had been personally wrong by Sideous like Maul and Mother Talzin were then I'd want to see him dead too, and given how evil he is killing him is always 100% good, I'd especially want to do it if he massacred my people like he did the Nightsisters.
This video is a great explanation of who the bad guys were I will say you did forget to mention the senetors because they made a great contribution to the war too great video tho xx
You could also factor in Satine's pacifist alliance. In THEORY, it was a noble thing to do and be, but in PRACTICE, well, one example was when Anakin had to kill Tal Merik in order to stop him from blowing up the ship they where on, which Satine refused to do, herself, and, thereby, nearly allowed it to happen.
I just want to be a pilot, flying in my spaceship to travel around the galaxy.
Initial assessment before the video: Republic. Reason? Because it has the mechanisms for positive change built in to it.
The CIS? Did not.
Now I watch and see...
I'd have chose the CIS. For a few reasons.
1. They aren't Human-centric.
2. You can keep your culture and forms of government as a member, instead of being under the mass Republic beauracracy.
3. Their military is more moral.
4. The organic commanders they did field, generally were more competent than those of the Republic. Many of those on the Republic side being Jedi, but also the Clone Commanders, who while many were very skilled and strategic, others were too ingrained in the dogmatic commands they were given.
(Side note). They Jedi Order does not seek balance. It seeks the 'Light side' of the force being the only one to exist. And some would argue that the Force doesnt have a side. In fact, before the 'Light side' Fanatics formed, the Jedii Order practiced a general belief in the Force, that had no sides, it just created life and regulated the changes in the universe. The 'Light side' Radicals really created dis-balance. Which formed the foundation for the Jedi-Sith tension's for the rest of Star Wars history since then. Particularly because those members who were researching other abilities and knowledge of the Force and such, weren't allowed to do so, thus creating resentment. And this doesn't even go into the Jedi methods in maintaining their Order..
you speak truth Long live the CIS!
@Diecast Cars not for Kids lol, yes I clone troopers but the Republic is bad
I just realized how the republic and empire flag/logo thing looks like 1930s-1940s german miltary
Padmé Amidala and the people who followed her were the true heroes of that time. She never believed in the war to the very end. She believed in the good people of both sides. She just never had all the information and died in the end because of that.
What she believed in doesnt matter, what she did does
and in her Role as Senator she supported the War
don't say "the empire was created to fight the yuuzhanvong"
It seems reasonable *deal with it*
jayvhon calma its extremely reasonable. Without the militarization that the galaxy had undergone in its decades of infighting, the entire galaxy would have been massacred by the Vong...
@Zman 1471 I know
3:19 .........really really good point.
In a galaxy like Star Wars, I’d probably just end up in support for myself! Keeping my nose to the ground and minding my own business and helping out who I could when I could. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Not to mention palpatine could have, you know, told the galaxy about the vong
Depends when... he couldn't out himself as a Force Sensative/Sith until after Order 66 or the Jedi would've beheaded him. Still evil though...
Well he has a good point on each faction ......but I still love the clones no matter what
I’d support the hapes consortium due to the fact that they were able to keep their independence through the clone wars plus the galactic civil war and onwards. If I’m correct the hapes were mainly a independent trade faction
do one on the Nebula Front!- only faction i'd consider mostly good in all of star wars, at least on more than a single planet
General Tuberculosis *cough*
I think Cut had it right for who whom and what should have been fought for and protected
The Lerman, and possibly the Corelians
Personally I would’ve formed my own faction and if it would be any section word ally with or simply outright willingly join it would be the Mandalorians for a list of reasons at the top of the list survival against all possible threats.
The individual systems of the CIS were usually good, as were some republic senators. However, the Empire was needed to save the galaxy from threats in the unknown regions.
Too bad the Yuuzhan Vong are no longer canon
JJ García They have more or less been replaced by the Grysks. Timothy Zahn has brought a lot of the expanded universe back into Disney’s canon
The high ground is a pathway to many abilities some would consider unnatural
I would have likely been on the side of the republic only to eventually desert once I realized the true extent of their misdeeds after going beyond my home in the core worlds. I feel Quinlan Vos on the state of the galaxy
I fucking love how realistic star wars politics is
In Star Trek's original series, Kirk and Spock were teamed with two of their personal heroes to fight against four of what they considered to be villains of the galaxy and pit them against each other to see which was stronger, good or evil.
The powerful aliens who created the heroes and villains watched the battle but were confused because both sides fought using the same tactics.
Kirk asked the aliens what they offered the villains. They answered they villains wanted wealth and power. Kirk then told them that he fought for the life of his crew because the aliens had to disable his ship so that it would spiral out of orbit and burn up in the atmosphere of the planet before Kirk agreed to participate in the battle.
So what is the difference between good and evil? What you are fighting for.
The Jedi Order shouldn't have participated on the Clone Wars.
The Galactic Republic was too corrupt and should have allowed the separation of any system that wanted it.
I think Alot of this conversation in the community focuses on the leadership of the factions and not what actully happens in the war itself. By that regard I'd go republic
If the Republic didnt turn into the Empire, what would they have done with the Clones?
Good thing I wasn't invited to the battle of coruscant because knowing me ild probably crash my Victory star destroyer into Palpatine's office
To me it ultimately comes down to which side benefits me and people like me the most. As you've already proven in the video neither side would benefit me. So to me both sides are evil, and so I'd treat both sides as my enemy.
I would support most factions as long as Anakin, Ahoska, Kenobi, Rex, Cody, and most of the clones were in that factions.
You are forgetting the confederacy of neutral systems
Yeah but if they are neutral they were not officially part of the war
And was that neutrality really good?
technically they were still part of the Republic but I did raise the same question. Should they be analyzed as their own group or as another subset of the Republic.
I love the thumbnail
War doesn't determine who is right but only who is left