If you're looking for some free music for you creative projects, check out our RelaxJack Music Channel! - ua-cam.com/play/PLjieRbgds_jTu7Cw965C0ImiMmS3GRl-v.html Depa Billaba has to be one of the biggest canon and legends discrepancies in Star Wars lol
To be fair he hadn't been there since before the war Summer Time war. The Summer Time war started 10 years after Windu had last been there. They didn't know what had been going on. Because the Balui were stopping as much information as possible from reaching the Republic.
Seems like a bad idea to send a high grade force empath alone to intervene in such a brutal and emotionally destructive conflict. The council damn near set her up to fail, regardless of her training that's too much to face alone.
It’s a representation of why the Jedi order failed. Your emotions are what make you human, removing them is impossible even for the most indoctrinated and disciplined Jedi. Yoda himself came to realise this when he was trained by the force priestesses. The path to balance comes from accepting your dark side and learning to deal with it in a healthy way rather than denying its existence
@@jimmyjohnjuan Yeah, the Sith Purebloods (the species, not the order) were wiped out by the early Republic and Jedi, in the war that occurred when the Jedi and Sith first made contact(after the darksiders fled Tython). I think it was called the Sith Holocaust. My knowledge is a bit rusty though, so I could be mistaken about some things.
No it wasn't you don't defeat your enemy by making maryters of their leaders. You destroy their ability to resist your will so their leaders have to surrender and give in to all your demands. Military science 101. Carpet bomb their factories, burn their food supplies,sieze or destroy their natural reasources/territory and obliterate their armies. Once you have pinned them they will surrender and give in to your demands because they'll have no other choice. If you kill their leaders then they're worlds will simply elect and appoint new leaders and your going to have to fight them anyways. And they'll fight even harder because you just martyed their leaders.
If the Jedi philosophy was a therapist: “Im feeling depressed” Jedi “well then stop being depressed” “I’m feeling really angry” Jedi “Don’t feel angry; angry bad” “I’m feeling overly attached to someone” Jedi “Absolutely unacceptable, cut it off”
Well without them you're gonna have thousands more force users falling to the dark side more often. This is what happened in legends when Luke didn't want to train new jedi, those he turned down fell to the dark side
I mean the literal difference between the light and the dark is the will to control your emotions. Which is something everyone struggles with so we are all sith lords with out a connection to the force.
@@dylanwoods9491 The problem is that you can 'control your emotions' too much and be blinded by 'logic' into ignoring misdeeds done against you and against your brethren.
Brings into thought how he treated anakin and why he denied him master rank out of fear of a repeat of what happened to his padawan he saw what trusting someone that was close to the dark side and growing closer can do. Makes me wonder if he wasny just bitter and angry but actually concerned for him.
I mean at the end of this very book Mace actually openly states his faith that Anakin was the Chosen One and even goes so far as to say that even if all the Jedi die, as long as he lived, there would still be hope, so yeah I do think Mace was nowhere near as bitter towards Anakin as everyone seems to like to think.
I firmly believe Anakin should have been Mace Windu's padawan. Mace Windu's fear won out. Why else did Palpatine really want Mace Windu out of the way? Because he could have snapped Anakin out of it. I love Obi Wan and Qui'Gon would have been an excellent father figure, but they were both the wrong Master for Anakin. Someone used to being abused doesn't always respond to real love well, because of the emotional damage they've already suffered. Anakin needed discipline with love. And therapy, lots and lots of it.
Fun fact: They actually make an indirect reference to Depa Billaba's fall in the Kanan comics. In it, we learn that some months before she took on Caleb Dume as a Padawan, her clone battalion was slaughtered to a man and she herself was nearly killed by General Grievous, both of which happened while operating on Haruun Kal, the world featured in the Shatterpoint novel where she succumbed to the Dark Side. When you combine this with the fact that several of Caleb Dume's fellow younglings (and to an extent, Billaba herself) refer to Depa Billaba as "damaged goods" in that they think she's a failure, I'd say that her full story in the current canon might still have some bits and pieces of the old continuity in it. Perhaps, while fighting on Haruun Kal, Billaba was tempted by and slipped into the Dark Side, leading to her troops being wiped out, her near-destruction by Grievous, and the rumours and perception that she's a failure.
Exactly what I was thinking- of course it doesn't fit perfectly with legends which is a shame, but it shows that the current star wars authors know about legends material and do their best to write it in when they can ;) I personally combine both stories
@@khanburger3610 to be honest this disregard for the EU books and comics started before Disney's acquisition. The Clone Wars show, though nowadays loved, contradicted myriads of EU plot points back in the day. And given how Lucas was planning his own sequel trilogy, I think we'd end up with the EU being decanonized even if he didn't sell the franchise.
I feel like only some authors do stuff like this where they try to combine canons. Most of the time canon likes to override Legends stories. (Especially visual media guys like Filoni who completely don't give a toss about written media, he even ignored the comic book you mentioned despite it being canon)
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о Not really. Filoni is actually one of the best for combining the old EU with the current continuity and he didn't totally disregard the comics like you say. Caleb Dume and Depa Billaba were still on Kaller when Order 66 went down; the only thing he changed was putting the Bad Batch there as well. Otherwise, he didn't contradict what happened in the Kanan comics.
@@furioussherman7265 well, you could say his contradictions to EU during TCW run were small ones like the Kanan contradiction. The problem is that small contradictions kept adding up.
The dark side and its pull is a powerful thing. Even the best can be consumed by it. Just like Ahsoka said: "I've seen what such feelings can do to a fully trained Jedi Knight. To the best of us."
"Just like Ahsoka said: I've seen what such feelings can do to a fully trained Jedi Knight. To the best of us" TBH Anakin was steered there since he was a boy, Palps made sure of that. And He was a great fighter and thanks to the clone wars he is a better person overall making his fall feel much more sad. But I wouldn't call him the best of them. I love Ahsoka but she does have a bias when it comes to Anakin.
@@MasterGenshu I suppose that's fair, but I still think of Anakin as one of the best Jedi there was, and considering how Depa was considered one of the best to not only be given a seat on the Council but even taught the difficult and dangerous Lightsaber combat of Vapot, I still think the quote can work to show how powerful and corrupting the Dark Side can be even to well experienced and seasoned masters.
@@zexalbrony4799 I agree. It doesn't matter if you're a prodigy. Even the most greatest of Jedi can easily fall to the dark side. Under dangerous circumstances and conditions.
Billaba in Cannon: *”I will protect this boy with my life and teach him the ways of the Jedi”* Billaba in Legends: *”I will go to my master’s homeworld and commit several war crimes”*
@@KeybladeMasterAndy If you read the Kanan comics, you'll see that they make reference to Depa Billaba nearly being killed by General Grievous and her clone battalion being destroyed on Haruun Kal, the same world she fell to the Dark Side on in the Shatterpoint novel. It's likely that some of the same plot points remain in the current canon as they did in the old EU. Also, the reason why Caleb Dume became her apprentice was because they were both seen by others (snd themselves) as not good enough; their partnership was a chance for both of them to prove that perception wrong.
@@okaysoanyways2645 I used to think of the Jedi as "the good guys" and I suppose in many ways they are. If I lived in the republic I'd appreciate having telepathic space monks with laser swords watching my back, but you know what they say about good intentions.
The reason for not granting Anakin the rank of master was purely political. The council started to really dislike Palpatine in the last months of war, he was already suspected to be influenced by the Sith. Since he demanded to make Anakin a master, they wouldn't, even if they wanted initially.
This is a problem with empathy in real life, I think; If you're exposed to too many bad vibes, it makes you angry and vindictive, and it's extremely hard not to get trapped in it. That was Palpatine's plan anyway, to blind or taint the Jedi with the horrors of war.
Depa "Mace never told you what happened too your master..." Kanan "He told me enough! He told me you killed her!!!" Depa "No..." Pulls down hood... "...I am your Master"
@@lightningonlycommentsonce5824 "Your" was the correct term there actually. "You're" is a combination of "You" and "Are", so by your logic what he said would be "You Are Master" which doesn't sound right.
@@lightningonlycommentsonce5824 If you’re going to correct someone’s grammar, at least do it right. “To” instead of “too” in the first sentence. Here, this is how a real grammar nazi does their job.
You know, we should have dropped massive amounts of sand in any area that Anakin Skywalker was in. This would have secured victory for us, the righteous Seperatists, against the corrupt Republic.
Oh really? How about the one time the jedi fucked the last true mandalorians? Or the extinction of the kaleesh? I blame those fuckers for everything that's bad.
She had a point though at first. Had they orbital bombarded or even just sent in a few arial runs, they could’ve taken out the separatist leaders stopping the clone wars. And while mace made the argument that it wasn’t worth sacrificing two Jedi, and a senator, how many more Jedi died in the process of rescuing two of their own? That being said, the Jedi had a history of doing some bad things, as well as the republic. But such is politics and religious ideology
Yoda: “INSANE, YOUR PEOPLE ARE! KNOW THIS, DID YOU!?” Windu: “No!” Yoda: “WHY NOT!? IMPORTANT INFORMATION, THIS SEEMS TO BE!” Windu: “Master Yoda, calm down.” Yoda: “COMMITTING GENOCIDE, YOUR PADAWAN IS! AN APPROPRIATE EMOTION, CALM IS NOT!”
Frankly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Palpatine was keeping a cockeyed watch on her in case Anakin was a little bit more than he could handle....
It kinda hints it in the book that he was watching her. After all Mace was the second strongest Jedi at the time and Deeba was stated to be a better fighter then him by Mace himself. So she'd make a fine apprentice.
Geneva convention? More like Geneva Suggestion Edit: I don't know why you guys are making a big deal about it. It's a joke , there is no Geneva convention , but there is a yavin code (said by someone below). I'm sure that both sides in the war , committed at least 1 war crime.
I do disagree with bombard the arena, not just because of the deaths of Anakin, Kenobi and Padme, but also because, despiste that Gunray, Dooku an Poggle were there, the CIS still had Wat Tambor, the Banking Clan and the rest of their leaders outside of the Arena, and by bombard the area you will lost a lot of inteligence about their forces and locations, not to mention the killing of civilians that didn't have anything to do with the conflict (even if those civilians were bugs but whatever)
Well, they lost all the intelligence anyway when they escaped. Dooku was also the glue holding the Separatists at that moment with them just barely coming together. Gunray was the only known separatist leader to know of Sidious at the time. Even if they had agreed to keep fighting thanks to Sidious, there would be a power struggle with all of them wanting to assume public control either themselves or through their own puppets like Grievous. Either way, militarily it was the best option, at the time and in hindsight.
Probably something along the lines of "it's their culture" cuz Tuskens were known to be pretty brutal at times but no one was keen on serving THAT court summons. Easier to just shrug it off than to BDZ their bullshit or hunt them down.
Mace reclassified the whole intervention on Haruun Kal as a police action and, if memory serves, arranged for several of the worst surviving offenders on both sides to face trial, while Depa, and Kar Vastor, were secured in the lowest levels of the Jedi Temple until they were fit to face trial... which they weren't for the rest of the war.
@@NobelTheKnave I wouldn't, it ruins a bunch of stories Couldn't have any stories of clones defying Order 66, especially for things like the Republic Commando novels
I wonder if mace windu kept a closer eye on Anakin after this because of her turning to the dark side This also may have contributed to mace windu being against anakin being given the rank of master not wanting to make the same mistake twice
As soon as I heard you say her name, I was like, wait.... wasn’t she the one who was in a coma and then got shot down with the kanan kid?! Then you mentioned that story and I was like “oh good... I’m not crazy”
"Civilian massacres,gangrape and Small scale genocides" Ill be honest the moment gangrape was brought up i genuinely spit out my coffee. In all my life i never expected star wars to go that dark
I mean, at this point I’ve seen enough to where the genocide stuff is typical Star Wars atrocities territory, but even then I didn’t think they were crazy enough to include gangrape.
Once again, I saw the title and thought "I bet I know which book he's going to reference" 😉 You did make a few minor mistakes though. For one thing there were only six Akk Guards. Mace says to his clone commander "Yoda wouldn't risk his clone troopers against one enemy Force user on Geonosis. There could be as many as seven in there" , and the commander corrects him that there could be eight. Those eight being the Akk Guards, Kar Vastor, and Depa. Other than that, and the description of the penultimate stage of the battle (before Mace and Depa fight) not quite flowing the way I remember reading it, this was another great video 🙂
I liked this book. One of the most chilling things about the "summer time war", was when Nick Rostu told Mace Windu that "you have to find the place where it becomes fun." ( I may be paraphrasing).
@Samuel Dimmock especially since their ability to feel or connect with the forces was diminishing as well.heck the ones with actual foresight were locked up in the citidel or dead.
Classic legends was so much better then current cannon, Disney and the clone wars brought alot of goodies im no hater, but I always loved the darker tone and especially the darker clones, just straight up following orders in order 66 instead of chips
If Anakin had gained Windus trust by not interferring, and Palpatine had been successfully be defeated by the Jedi, he would have been made a Jedi Master.
She fell in a similar trap of Malachor 5, it was a matter of time. And by sweeping it under the rug and simply forgetting it, they've only showed that they've truly never learned.
That's the best thing about having legends and Canon separate are the different versions of characters. Some being cooler in Canon and some in legends and some just cool all in both.
I always wondered about what could have been an alternative to the Jedi’s fate in order 66. What Palpatine could have done instead of wiping them out. What if the Jedi became so arrogant and corrupt that they became keepers of the peace in name only, becoming little more than an order of crusaders that did nothing more than fight wars for the Galactic Government. Still claiming to be on the light but committing horrible acts of violence in the name of it, their Jedi robes now giving themselves a sense of superiority and justification to unleash punishment on whoever went against the divine light of the force. Reminiscent of the ancient Jedi who slaughtered the Sith and the Imperial Knights of Fel’s Empire. The Republic would become the Empire and they wouldn’t even notice because they would have rotted from within just the rest of the military, a Jedi would have more in common with a Moff at this point. Alternatively what of the Jedi Temple was turned into a reeducation facility instead of the Imperial Palace, where the remaining younglings underwent Inquisitorial style "training” but on a massive scale, essentially creating an army of dark side users for the empire with new masters to take over teaching from Yoda and the others, who would be killed or in hiding. Their function would be similar to the generals during the clone wars with the imperial technology like TIE fighters, but they would be utter slaves of the empire, without an order of their own, being used as weapons or tools like the clones had been for their abilities as they lead the stormtroopers into battle while training in a temple that once symbolised their autonomy and knowledge was now a dystopian war academy. Other Jedi who escaped would not be killed but forcibly converted by Vader himself or other ex-Jedi members.
True ,what others are saying. She shouldn't have been left alone. Even Jedi need mental rest. it's the same with Military leaders here, they can crack .
Soooooo once again windus fault for having a jedi turn to the dark side it wasn't her fault the emotions made her snap and go insane windu shouldint have sent her alone maybe with 2 other jedi and a small despatch of clones as back up
Well sometimes worrying about the well being of others as Jedi can be a setback. Plus she was highly skilled and Windu clearly had enough confidence in her.
@@ramarblood7697 it doesn't matter whether she is a Jedi prodigy. Anyone is susceptible to the dark side of force. Mace Windu didn't have the common sense to realize that her apprentice might need some backup to end war between two nations. That been fighting for centuries😒.
Damn Depa really doesn't have much luck. Legends: She goes Colonel Kurtz gets nicked for war crimes and goes into a coma. Canon: Becomes a victim of Order 66. Either way she's screwed.
I see a lot of people blaming Mace for what happened to Deeba. It wasn't, he hadn't been on the world since before the Summertime War started. When he was last there the Koruni were as he remembered them strong and honorable people who protected their herds and their people but didn't murder indiscriminately. The last thing they (the Jedi Council) knew is that the Balawi government joined the Seps to prevent them from being investigated for Genocide. He didn't know that both sides were going that dark. And She volunteered for it hoping to get some of the Koruni to join the Republic as a set of commandos, force sensitive commando forces to do jobs even Clone Spec Ops might not be able to handle. So not entirely Windu's fault.
If Quinlan Vos went to the dark side and joined Count Dooku in both Canon and Legends, why is it not possible that Depa Billaba one day woke up, spent months rehabilitating and was granted amnesty?
Honestly, her strategy isn't exactly the worst idea ever. I can understand needing to wait for the Clones to arrive and needing to by time for them to break through the CIS navy that was in orbit, but that could also be done with a couple Jedi planting bombs around the arena and detonating them. In the confusion, Mace and a handful of Jedi could swoop in, get Anakin, Obi Wan, and Padme, and fly off. OR just coordinate better and have the gunships soar in, do a quick pickup, and then bomb the place to hell with the Venators and Y Wings. OR just bomb the place to hell because the lives of the entire Separatist leadership and Count Dooku are worth far more than three people. It's a terrible thought process, but if a train can hit one guy or one hundred guys, it's numerically the best outcome. How many millions of lives could have been saved had Yoda just gone full Lt. Kilgore, turned on Flight of the Valkyries, and started shooting?
Second only to Yoda when it comes to that ability yes. what does that mean she can control it as good as him or close to him or are there others you aren't a strong but can still control their abilities a lot better than she can. A volcano is a very powerful thing but it has no control
Orbitally bombard the arena with what? I'm assuming Windu et al got to Geonosis using the standard Jedi starfighter of the time, they wouldn't have had the option of bombardment until Yoda arrived with the Clone fleet from Kamino - and if Windu and the other Jedi hadn't intervened when they did Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme would have likely already been dead and Dooku etc would have presumably left the arena by the time the fleet arrived.
it could be argued that while comiting the crime aigenst sivilisation she had gone insane from what happend on the planet she was sent to, there is other cases of jedi going insane for periods or other thing happening to them when massive events or realy bloody battles etc. wonder if she would have been equited or gothen a lesser sentence because of that.
To all the people saying the Canon version is lame: the Canon story of Depa still uses lots of stuff from shatter point- in the Kanan comics- she is in a coma from the battle of Haruun kal, just like in legends- and in the comic they are cautious of letting her back on the council so they test her and when they finally do let her back on who introduces her back and let's them sit in their seat: Obi wan- the person who took her chair in legends- of course there are still lots of things that arnt the same, like in the comic she goes into a coma cause grevois was at the battle not her turning evil, but there are enough plot links that show that they are fully aware of these stories and wish to do them justice and show homage to legends in the Canon stories :)
The message at the start is from a Star Wars book about mace windu called shatter point which is quite good if a little bloody for maybe 11 year olds (including me) and under but most Star Wars fans should enjoy it （＾ω＾）
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Depa Billaba has to be one of the biggest canon and legends discrepancies in Star Wars lol
2 days ago?
You a time traveller?
Is there least any Legends material about that Wampa that lost its arm to Luke?
This story is changed now due to the bad batch
what happened after? like order 66. did she survive or die?
@@TheSegert she died in both the comics and the bad batch
I was gonna say Anakin but then I realized it said Jedi Master
Oof
I thought it was Yaddle
GBTMNIH
Too soon
OOOOOOFFFFFFFF
>Depa Billaba can basically read minds
Windu: "Perfect, I'll send her to my home planet where everyone is a psychopath."
To be fair he hadn't been there since before the war Summer Time war. The Summer Time war started 10 years after Windu had last been there. They didn't know what had been going on. Because the Balui were stopping as much information as possible from reaching the Republic.
windu fucks up most of the shit
@@irrelevanttroll3312 Ki Adi Mundi Fucks more shit up.
@@Lord_Helix ki aid ain’t that bad tho …
@@lemonade_011 He's one of the reasons for order 66
Seems like a bad idea to send a high grade force empath alone to intervene in such a brutal and emotionally destructive conflict. The council damn near set her up to fail, regardless of her training that's too much to face alone.
almost like depriving a kid who is pretty much the force embodied, the second half and than being surprised when he snaps
@@midgetman4206 yeah, never saw that coming
It’s a representation of why the Jedi order failed. Your emotions are what make you human, removing them is impossible even for the most indoctrinated and disciplined Jedi. Yoda himself came to realise this when he was trained by the force priestesses. The path to balance comes from accepting your dark side and learning to deal with it in a healthy way rather than denying its existence
Lol what a surprise
@@sawspitfire422 indeed
The Jedi Council after Depa Billaba commits Genocide: Well, that was terrible, but we doubt any Jedi can top that.
Anakin Skywalker: Hold my beer.
Every Jedi ever: "Anakin no!"
Anakin: "Vader yes!"
Meetra Surik: Rookie numbers kids. *Activates the Mass Shadow Generator*
Group of jedi master murdered there padawans out of fear of being kill by them. Because of a vision.
Pretty sure jedi order genocides species before.
@@jimmyjohnjuan Yeah, the Sith Purebloods (the species, not the order) were wiped out by the early Republic and Jedi, in the war that occurred when the Jedi and Sith first made contact(after the darksiders fled Tython). I think it was called the Sith Holocaust. My knowledge is a bit rusty though, so I could be mistaken about some things.
Windu's home planet: inter-tribal wars are genocidal and terrible.
Mandalorians: We literally do those all the time. We have no word for genocide.
Warcrimes is fun times XD
I mean it’s hard to fit “my 10:00 to 12:00 routine every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday” into one word.
@@noahleonard2481 schedule?
Sure they do. Its called yesterday, today, and the next day.
Their word for genocide is "fun outdoor activity #5".
She was right about the fact that Jedi shouldn’t be Generals. And her military strategic disagreement with Windu was correct.
You have unlocked the skill: Genocide.
@@ramarblood7697 sweet!
she would have saved the republic, stop palpatines take over, stopped the birth of darth vader and saved the Order if she was General
@@devildavin And proved Count Dooku and the glorious Confederacy right
No it wasn't you don't defeat your enemy by making maryters of their leaders. You destroy their ability to resist your will so their leaders have to surrender and give in to all your demands. Military science 101. Carpet bomb their factories, burn their food supplies,sieze or destroy their natural reasources/territory and obliterate their armies. Once you have pinned them they will surrender and give in to your demands because they'll have no other choice. If you kill their leaders then they're worlds will simply elect and appoint new leaders and your going to have to fight them anyways. And they'll fight even harder because you just martyed their leaders.
Technically speaking, they never kicked Anakin off the council
Tbh I don't think it even got put on the council agenda, an egregious oversight.
I just hate seeing paperwork left unfinished...........
@Darth Revan But technically Anakin was the last remaining member of the Jedi Council, since it was never made official.
Anakin became the council lol.
@@geetslys Have you noticed how the comments are more about Anakin than Mace Windu apprentice Depa?
If the Jedi philosophy was a therapist:
“Im feeling depressed”
Jedi “well then stop being depressed”
“I’m feeling really angry”
Jedi “Don’t feel angry; angry bad”
“I’m feeling overly attached to someone”
Jedi “Absolutely unacceptable, cut it off”
I feel attacked because that's drunk me giving "advice"
Because the Jedi Order have a anti-life mindset.
@@kingnamor777 Nietzsche would both hate and love them.
And that's why Luke's order was better! (The Legends one of course)
I FEEL THE NEED TO COMMIT WAR CRIMES!
that cool, just keep out of sight.
If falling to the Dark side is this easy, as a non Force user, I would be against the formation of the Jedi Order as well.
Well without them you're gonna have thousands more force users falling to the dark side more often. This is what happened in legends when Luke didn't want to train new jedi, those he turned down fell to the dark side
@@shadowfox0087 nah use the jedis own gear to hunt force sentitives dow
@@shadowfox0087 Jedi order was trash, Something akin to the much wanted Grey Order would be best. Revan did it right, Revan NEVER fell fock the Jedi.
I mean the literal difference between the light and the dark is the will to control your emotions. Which is something everyone struggles with so we are all sith lords with out a connection to the force.
@@dylanwoods9491 The problem is that you can 'control your emotions' too much and be blinded by 'logic' into ignoring misdeeds done against you and against your brethren.
Brings into thought how he treated anakin and why he denied him master rank out of fear of a repeat of what happened to his padawan he saw what trusting someone that was close to the dark side and growing closer can do. Makes me wonder if he wasny just bitter and angry but actually concerned for him.
I mean at the end of this very book Mace actually openly states his faith that Anakin was the Chosen One and even goes so far as to say that even if all the Jedi die, as long as he lived, there would still be hope, so yeah I do think Mace was nowhere near as bitter towards Anakin as everyone seems to like to think.
@The Hollow Called White ain't this a legends video...
@The Hollow Called White mace used Shatterpoint in the clone wars show. It wasn't stated but it was shown.
Afraid
I firmly believe Anakin should have been Mace Windu's padawan. Mace Windu's fear won out. Why else did Palpatine really want Mace Windu out of the way? Because he could have snapped Anakin out of it. I love Obi Wan and Qui'Gon would have been an excellent father figure, but they were both the wrong Master for Anakin. Someone used to being abused doesn't always respond to real love well, because of the emotional damage they've already suffered. Anakin needed discipline with love. And therapy, lots and lots of it.
Fun fact: They actually make an indirect reference to Depa Billaba's fall in the Kanan comics. In it, we learn that some months before she took on Caleb Dume as a Padawan, her clone battalion was slaughtered to a man and she herself was nearly killed by General Grievous, both of which happened while operating on Haruun Kal, the world featured in the Shatterpoint novel where she succumbed to the Dark Side.
When you combine this with the fact that several of Caleb Dume's fellow younglings (and to an extent, Billaba herself) refer to Depa Billaba as "damaged goods" in that they think she's a failure, I'd say that her full story in the current canon might still have some bits and pieces of the old continuity in it. Perhaps, while fighting on Haruun Kal, Billaba was tempted by and slipped into the Dark Side, leading to her troops being wiped out, her near-destruction by Grievous, and the rumours and perception that she's a failure.
Exactly what I was thinking- of course it doesn't fit perfectly with legends which is a shame, but it shows that the current star wars authors know about legends material and do their best to write it in when they can ;) I personally combine both stories
@@khanburger3610 to be honest this disregard for the EU books and comics started before Disney's acquisition. The Clone Wars show, though nowadays loved, contradicted myriads of EU plot points back in the day. And given how Lucas was planning his own sequel trilogy, I think we'd end up with the EU being decanonized even if he didn't sell the franchise.
I feel like only some authors do stuff like this where they try to combine canons. Most of the time canon likes to override Legends stories. (Especially visual media guys like Filoni who completely don't give a toss about written media, he even ignored the comic book you mentioned despite it being canon)
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о Not really. Filoni is actually one of the best for combining the old EU with the current continuity and he didn't totally disregard the comics like you say. Caleb Dume and Depa Billaba were still on Kaller when Order 66 went down; the only thing he changed was putting the Bad Batch there as well. Otherwise, he didn't contradict what happened in the Kanan comics.
@@furioussherman7265 well, you could say his contradictions to EU during TCW run were small ones like the Kanan contradiction. The problem is that small contradictions kept adding up.
I remember my first time reading this book very fondly, I always loved Mace Windu’s characterization and origins as it progressed
A man of culture I see!
What is this book called? I'll like to check it out
@@uniquelyawesome4455 The book is Shatterpoint by Matthew Stover
@@rowancarlson892 Thank you!!!
Seriously this book in the first chapter made Mace a better character then all of Disney Canon.
I feel like this is the reason Anakin didn't get the rank of master.
The dark side and its pull is a powerful thing. Even the best can be consumed by it. Just like Ahsoka said:
"I've seen what such feelings can do to a fully trained Jedi Knight. To the best of us."
"Just like Ahsoka said:
I've seen what such feelings can do to a fully trained Jedi Knight. To the best of us"
TBH Anakin was steered there since he was a boy, Palps made sure of that. And He was a great fighter and thanks to the clone wars he is a better person overall making his fall feel much more sad. But I wouldn't call him the best of them. I love Ahsoka but she does have a bias when it comes to Anakin.
@@MasterGenshu I suppose that's fair, but I still think of Anakin as one of the best Jedi there was, and considering how Depa was considered one of the best to not only be given a seat on the Council but even taught the difficult and dangerous Lightsaber combat of Vapot, I still think the quote can work to show how powerful and corrupting the Dark Side can be even to well experienced and seasoned masters.
@@zexalbrony4799 I can agree with that.
@@zexalbrony4799 I agree. It doesn't matter if you're a prodigy. Even the most greatest of Jedi can easily fall to the dark side. Under dangerous circumstances and conditions.
Gotta give props to Obi-Wan though, he had everyone he ever loved and cared about die and yet he still stayed true to the Jedi.
“The council will decide your fate”Mace Windu
The council, I am.
@@jedimeyer1298 I am the senate.
@@yeetyay921 I am a member of Senate.
@@jedimeyer1298 you are what you eat :\ so ig palpitine ate the senate😂
@@yeetyay921 D the Superior is bad person
So basically Apocalypse Now in Star Wars... that actually sounds pretty sick
Haruun Kal... Shit... I'm still only on Haruun Kal... Every time I think I'm gonna wake up back in the jungle.
Chinggis Khan: And they said the perfect woman didn't exist.
Billaba in Cannon: *”I will protect this boy with my life and teach him the ways of the Jedi”*
Billaba in Legends: *”I will go to my master’s homeworld and commit several war crimes”*
Literally
It makes me wonder why they went with Bilaba for Caleb's Master rather than somebody else.
@@KeybladeMasterAndy If you read the Kanan comics, you'll see that they make reference to Depa Billaba nearly being killed by General Grievous and her clone battalion being destroyed on Haruun Kal, the same world she fell to the Dark Side on in the Shatterpoint novel. It's likely that some of the same plot points remain in the current canon as they did in the old EU. Also, the reason why Caleb Dume became her apprentice was because they were both seen by others (snd themselves) as not good enough; their partnership was a chance for both of them to prove that perception wrong.
Sooo Mace’s padawan was made a Master quickly, yet he refused to grant Anakin that same rank? Sounds a little biased on Mace’s part to me lol
Well he was distrustful of Anakin from day 1 so it's not surprising
@@timlewis9004 but the jedi loved talking about how "compassionate" they were
@@okaysoanyways2645 I used to think of the Jedi as "the good guys" and I suppose in many ways they are. If I lived in the republic I'd appreciate having telepathic space monks with laser swords watching my back, but you know what they say about good intentions.
The reason for not granting Anakin the rank of master was purely political. The council started to really dislike Palpatine in the last months of war, he was already suspected to be influenced by the Sith. Since he demanded to make Anakin a master, they wouldn't, even if they wanted initially.
@@timlewis9004 even acts of kindness can be exploited and can do more harm than good. I learned that from Kreia in the Kotor ll.
I kinda forgot how different legends Billaba is to her Canon ver.
This is a problem with empathy in real life, I think; If you're exposed to too many bad vibes, it makes you angry and vindictive, and it's extremely hard not to get trapped in it.
That was Palpatine's plan anyway, to blind or taint the Jedi with the horrors of war.
Depa Billaba: Commits war crimes.
Anakin: "Write that down! Write that down!"
Fun fact: cheese is a loaf of milk
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave
jerky is just cow raisins
No.
@@geetslys why are you afraid of the truth
@@geetslys Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering
Depa "Mace never told you what happened too your master..."
Kanan "He told me enough! He told me you killed her!!!"
Depa "No..."
Pulls down hood...
"...I am your Master"
Okay that's pretty impressive.
You've somehow managed to misuse "You're" twice.
@@lightningonlycommentsonce5824 "Your" was the correct term there actually. "You're" is a combination of "You" and "Are", so by your logic what he said would be "You Are Master" which doesn't sound right.
@@lightningonlycommentsonce5824 If you’re going to correct someone’s grammar, at least do it right. “To” instead of “too” in the first sentence. Here, this is how a real grammar nazi does their job.
Kanan: NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
THATS NOT TRUE THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE
Depa: search your feelings boy you know it to be true
Anakin realizing that this video is about a Jedi other than him: This is unfair!
It's outrageous
Take a seat young Skywalker
I mean the SAND is everywhere!
You know, we should have dropped massive amounts of sand in any area that Anakin Skywalker was in. This would have secured victory for us, the righteous Seperatists, against the corrupt Republic.
I think this shows that the Jedi don’t care about how badly their members act short of genocide
They definitely tolerated some pretty shitty personalities in their midst
Oh really? How about the one time the jedi fucked the last true mandalorians? Or the extinction of the kaleesh? I blame those fuckers for everything that's bad.
I can't say everything but they're literally responsible for the Sith, so.......
She had a point though at first. Had they orbital bombarded or even just sent in a few arial runs, they could’ve taken out the separatist leaders stopping the clone wars. And while mace made the argument that it wasn’t worth sacrificing two Jedi, and a senator, how many more Jedi died in the process of rescuing two of their own? That being said, the Jedi had a history of doing some bad things, as well as the republic. But such is politics and religious ideology
No. It shows how committed to rehabilitative mercy they are...
Which is a good thing
Yoda: “INSANE, YOUR PEOPLE ARE! KNOW THIS, DID YOU!?”
Windu: “No!”
Yoda: “WHY NOT!? IMPORTANT INFORMATION, THIS SEEMS TO BE!”
Windu: “Master Yoda, calm down.”
Yoda: “COMMITTING GENOCIDE, YOUR PADAWAN IS! AN APPROPRIATE EMOTION, CALM IS NOT!”
Frankly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Palpatine was keeping a cockeyed watch on her in case Anakin was a little bit more than he could handle....
It kinda hints it in the book that he was watching her. After all Mace was the second strongest Jedi at the time and Deeba was stated to be a better fighter then him by Mace himself. So she'd make a fine apprentice.
Knowing Palpatine, that wouldn't surprise me.
Anakin: "I'll never join you!"
Palpatine: "Fine, pull out the replacements!"
(out steps Depa Billaba, Barriss Offee, Grand Inquisitor, etc.)
Geneva convention?
More like Geneva Suggestion
Edit: I don't know why you guys are making a big deal about it. It's a joke , there is no Geneva convention , but there is a yavin code (said by someone below). I'm sure that both sides in the war , committed at least 1 war crime.
*Yavin
Overused, dead joke?
More like free likes
@@UpsideDownCycle the people were certainly dead
Geneva conventions is a Earth thing how are people even suppose to know about it in if it existing a long time in the future in a galaxy far far away.
@@ramarblood7697 There's a Yavin Convention with a Yavin Code.
I do disagree with bombard the arena, not just because of the deaths of Anakin, Kenobi and Padme, but also because, despiste that Gunray, Dooku an Poggle were there, the CIS still had Wat Tambor, the Banking Clan and the rest of their leaders outside of the Arena, and by bombard the area you will lost a lot of inteligence about their forces and locations, not to mention the killing of civilians that didn't have anything to do with the conflict (even if those civilians were bugs but whatever)
Well, they lost all the intelligence anyway when they escaped. Dooku was also the glue holding the Separatists at that moment with them just barely coming together. Gunray was the only known separatist leader to know of Sidious at the time. Even if they had agreed to keep fighting thanks to Sidious, there would be a power struggle with all of them wanting to assume public control either themselves or through their own puppets like Grievous. Either way, militarily it was the best option, at the time and in hindsight.
Everyone knows the CIS cannot be defeated so long they have the TECHNO UNION's mixtape
I like how the Balawai, (How do you even spell that?) equally guilty for crimes against civilization, appear to have had theirs swept under the rug.
Probably something along the lines of "it's their culture" cuz Tuskens were known to be pretty brutal at times but no one was keen on serving THAT court summons. Easier to just shrug it off than to BDZ their bullshit or hunt them down.
Mace reclassified the whole intervention on Haruun Kal as a police action and, if memory serves, arranged for several of the worst surviving offenders on both sides to face trial, while Depa, and Kar Vastor, were secured in the lowest levels of the Jedi Temple until they were fit to face trial... which they weren't for the rest of the war.
This is what happens when you send a Jedi to Sierra Leone.
"with the superior story from legends"
that applies just about everywhere in Star Wars continuity
I mean TCW was disregarding the EU long before the franchise was sold to Disney
Probably the only thing I’d keep from canon is the control chips in the clones brain
@@NobelTheKnave I wouldn't, it ruins a bunch of stories
Couldn't have any stories of clones defying Order 66, especially for things like the Republic Commando novels
@@murderousintent7838 Oh, in that case I retract my previous statement
I wonder if mace windu kept a closer eye on Anakin after this because of her turning to the dark side
This also may have contributed to mace windu being against anakin being given the rank of master not wanting to make the same mistake twice
As soon as I heard you say her name, I was like, wait.... wasn’t she the one who was in a coma and then got shot down with the kanan kid?! Then you mentioned that story and I was like “oh good... I’m not crazy”
"Civilian massacres,gangrape and Small scale genocides"
Ill be honest the moment gangrape was brought up i genuinely spit out my coffee. In all my life i never expected star wars to go that dark
Hence why it is called Star Wars for a reason, everyone is getting stuffed.
I mean, at this point I’ve seen enough to where the genocide stuff is typical Star Wars atrocities territory, but even then I didn’t think they were crazy enough to include gangrape.
Once again, I saw the title and thought "I bet I know which book he's going to reference" 😉
You did make a few minor mistakes though. For one thing there were only six Akk Guards. Mace says to his clone commander "Yoda wouldn't risk his clone troopers against one enemy Force user on Geonosis. There could be as many as seven in there" , and the commander corrects him that there could be eight. Those eight being the Akk Guards, Kar Vastor, and Depa. Other than that, and the description of the penultimate stage of the battle (before Mace and Depa fight) not quite flowing the way I remember reading it, this was another great video 🙂
I’m just a simple man making my way through the comments
I liked this book. One of the most chilling things about the "summer time war", was when Nick Rostu told Mace Windu that "you have to find the place where it becomes fun." ( I may be paraphrasing).
"The Jedi have a name for that; the Dark Side"
A response to that quote: "This is where the fun begins."
Seems like the only way the Jedi Order could keep their membership was to seclude them from the reality of life outside the Jedi Temple.
@Samuel Dimmock planning and strategie isn't their strong suit. Look at who they left in charge of the clone units.
@Samuel Dimmock especially since their ability to feel or connect with the forces was diminishing as well.heck the ones with actual foresight were locked up in the citidel or dead.
A jedi being punished for war crimes?
Impossible
"But farming...Really? Man of your talents?"
Depa Billaba had two different fates I can think of: In Legends, she fell to the Dark Side, but in Canon she was gunned down by Clones.
Classic legends was so much better then current cannon, Disney and the clone wars brought alot of goodies im no hater, but I always loved the darker tone and especially the darker clones, just straight up following orders in order 66 instead of chips
I agree with classic legends to my preference although I like the fact that the clones had chips it made more sense to me
The approval of using clone army using chips in their heads is already warcrime enough.
To be fair, no one knew except dooku, palps, and possibly the kaminoans
This is probably the reason why Mace Windu and the High Council was against giving Anakin the rank of Master
Well that and Anakin was what is scientifically termed 'A Hot Mess.'
"Gentlemen, welcome to Dubai"
If Anakin had gained Windus trust by not interferring, and Palpatine had been successfully be defeated by the Jedi, he would have been made a Jedi Master.
"The superior story in legends" ahhhh, as it should be.
0:50 and here is her employee ID photo
Depa Billaba went full Colonel Kurtz here
And once more legends proves to be superior than anything the souless mouse can produce.
She fell in a similar trap of Malachor 5, it was a matter of time. And by sweeping it under the rug and simply forgetting it, they've only showed that they've truly never learned.
Depa Bilaba in Canon: Run Kanan! Run!
Depa Bilaba in Legends: All of you might die but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make.
How did the clones explain to the Jedi about what happened to Krell🤔
He fell in the shower.
He was cleaning his blaster, when checking the prison cells...
@@TheBenjaman Obi-Wan: "Impossible! A Jedi would never use such a uncivilized weapon!"
Meetra Surik would like to know your location.
That's the best thing about having legends and Canon separate are the different versions of characters. Some being cooler in Canon and some in legends and some just cool all in both.
Jedi Order: But we have to protect life and keep the peace!
Depa Billaba: bUt We HaFtA pRuTeKt LiFe AnD kEeP dUh PeEcE
Legends still is the real canon in my eyes
It’s an amalgamation for me.
I always wondered about what could have been an alternative to the Jedi’s fate in order 66. What Palpatine could have done instead of wiping them out.
What if the Jedi became so arrogant and corrupt that they became keepers of the peace in name only, becoming little more than an order of crusaders that did nothing more than fight wars for the Galactic Government. Still claiming to be on the light but committing horrible acts of violence in the name of it, their Jedi robes now giving themselves a sense of superiority and justification to unleash punishment on whoever went against the divine light of the force. Reminiscent of the ancient Jedi who slaughtered the Sith and the Imperial Knights of Fel’s Empire.
The Republic would become the Empire and they wouldn’t even notice because they would have rotted from within just the rest of the military, a Jedi would have more in common with a Moff at this point.
Alternatively what of the Jedi Temple was turned into a reeducation facility instead of the Imperial Palace, where the remaining younglings underwent Inquisitorial style "training” but on a massive scale, essentially creating an army of dark side users for the empire with new masters to take over teaching from Yoda and the others, who would be killed or in hiding. Their function would be similar to the generals during the clone wars with the imperial technology like TIE fighters, but they would be utter slaves of the empire, without an order of their own, being used as weapons or tools like the clones had been for their abilities as they lead the stormtroopers into battle while training in a temple that once symbolised their autonomy and knowledge was now a dystopian war academy.
Other Jedi who escaped would not be killed but forcibly converted by Vader himself or other ex-Jedi members.
So basically "what if the Jedi order became Sith"?
Now that would be interesting
And then Obi Wans apprentice went on to do worse. That seat was cursed.
That damn thumbnail killed me... “‘cancelled’ for crimes against civilization” 😂
Gives me strong Heart of Darkness vibes
I'm sorry Depa. I have failed you
Just make sure not to fail anyone else. We know your still alive!
@@MasterGenshu I am. I'm too badass to die
@@macewindu3492 I know Master Windu!
Kanan probably be like my master is a Sith Lord
8:51 Qui-Gon: "WAIT, YOU CAN DO THAT?"
True ,what others are saying. She shouldn't have been left alone. Even Jedi need mental rest. it's the same with Military leaders here, they can crack .
These Legends stories seem like they could make a really interesting animated anthology series in the same ilk as the Clone Wars.
"The superior story from legends"
Aren't they always?
I wonder what the legends version of Caleb Dume did during the Clone Wars?
He didn't exist. He's a canon exclusive.
Hey I can dream right?
@@jamiewalsh3349 feel that. He',s a personal favorite of mine
Sounds like this planet is strong in the dark side of the force.
Mace Windu: my Padwan turned out to be a lost cause!
Yoda and Obiwan: first time? (Count Dooku and Vader)
Heart of Darkness: Star Wars Edition
It's already a mark of culture to connect this story with Apocalypse Now, but you get extra points for knowing Heart of Darkness
Soooooo once again windus fault for having a jedi turn to the dark side it wasn't her fault the emotions made her snap and go insane windu shouldint have sent her alone maybe with 2 other jedi and a small despatch of clones as back up
Well sometimes worrying about the well being of others as Jedi can be a setback. Plus she was highly skilled and Windu clearly had enough confidence in her.
@@ramarblood7697 More so negligence than confidence. All that darkness cascading onto someone extra sensitive to it almost never ends well.
@@jokairou489 agree
@@jokairou489 Agree too.
@@ramarblood7697 it doesn't matter whether she is a Jedi prodigy. Anyone is susceptible to the dark side of force. Mace Windu didn't have the common sense to realize that her apprentice might need some backup to end war between two nations. That been fighting for centuries😒.
5:43 HOL UP
Damn Depa really doesn't have much luck. Legends: She goes Colonel Kurtz gets nicked for war crimes and goes into a coma. Canon: Becomes a victim of Order 66. Either way she's screwed.
Except this is no longer canon.
Edit: They do still have her in a coma leading up to her taking Caleb Dume as a padawan.
He already mentioned in the video it was legends I don’t see what your point is.
No one cares what Disney says if the story is good it's good screw th mouse and his Mega Corp
Mace: I will beat the evil out you
Actually In the old PC game StarWars Battlesgrounds, she is sent to Geonosis
Pathetic Jedi - Falls to the darkside due to weak will...
Revan - CHOOSES THE DARKSIDE...REVAN NEVER FELL!
Exactly, he jumped, feet first, with a scowl
I see a lot of people blaming Mace for what happened to Deeba. It wasn't, he hadn't been on the world since before the Summertime War started. When he was last there the Koruni were as he remembered them strong and honorable people who protected their herds and their people but didn't murder indiscriminately. The last thing they (the Jedi Council) knew is that the Balawi government joined the Seps to prevent them from being investigated for Genocide. He didn't know that both sides were going that dark. And She volunteered for it hoping to get some of the Koruni to join the Republic as a set of commandos, force sensitive commando forces to do jobs even Clone Spec Ops might not be able to handle. So not entirely Windu's fault.
Anakin making the masters before him proud I see
I expect more of this in Jedi History.
Shatterpoint is such a good novel
If Quinlan Vos went to the dark side and joined Count Dooku in both Canon and Legends, why is it not possible that Depa Billaba one day woke up, spent months rehabilitating and was granted amnesty?
Cancelled for a good reason? Liar!
Honestly, her strategy isn't exactly the worst idea ever. I can understand needing to wait for the Clones to arrive and needing to by time for them to break through the CIS navy that was in orbit, but that could also be done with a couple Jedi planting bombs around the arena and detonating them. In the confusion, Mace and a handful of Jedi could swoop in, get Anakin, Obi Wan, and Padme, and fly off.
OR just coordinate better and have the gunships soar in, do a quick pickup, and then bomb the place to hell with the Venators and Y Wings.
OR just bomb the place to hell because the lives of the entire Separatist leadership and Count Dooku are worth far more than three people. It's a terrible thought process, but if a train can hit one guy or one hundred guys, it's numerically the best outcome. How many millions of lives could have been saved had Yoda just gone full Lt. Kilgore, turned on Flight of the Valkyries, and started shooting?
Second only to Yoda when it comes to that ability yes. what does that mean she can control it as good as him or close to him or are there others you aren't a strong but can still control their abilities a lot better than she can. A volcano is a very powerful thing but it has no control
I remember in revenge of the Sith novel . Palpatine made sure this story became common knowledge
Orbitally bombard the arena with what? I'm assuming Windu et al got to Geonosis using the standard Jedi starfighter of the time, they wouldn't have had the option of bombardment until Yoda arrived with the Clone fleet from Kamino - and if Windu and the other Jedi hadn't intervened when they did Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme would have likely already been dead and Dooku etc would have presumably left the arena by the time the fleet arrived.
That thumbnail tho- did space twitter cancel a space wizard?
it could be argued that while comiting the crime aigenst sivilisation she had gone insane from what happend on the planet she was sent to, there is other cases of jedi going insane for periods or other thing happening to them when massive events or realy bloody battles etc. wonder if she would have been equited or gothen a lesser sentence because of that.
“I have seen through the lies of the Jedi”
Wait wrong Jedi.
What happend to the zillo beast? did they ever make the armor?
Genocides and slavery I feel are per course in Star Wars, but gang rapes? Wasn't expecting that.
You say war crimes I say bonus missions
To all the people saying the Canon version is lame: the Canon story of Depa still uses lots of stuff from shatter point- in the Kanan comics- she is in a coma from the battle of Haruun kal, just like in legends- and in the comic they are cautious of letting her back on the council so they test her and when they finally do let her back on who introduces her back and let's them sit in their seat: Obi wan- the person who took her chair in legends- of course there are still lots of things that arnt the same, like in the comic she goes into a coma cause grevois was at the battle not her turning evil, but there are enough plot links that show that they are fully aware of these stories and wish to do them justice and show homage to legends in the Canon stories :)
Half the opening page is from the book "Shatterpoint" which is between Episode 2 & 3!!!
The message at the start is from a Star Wars book about mace windu called shatter point which is quite good if a little bloody for maybe 11 year olds (including me) and under but most Star Wars fans should enjoy it （＾ω＾）