What You Don't Know WILL Get You In Trouble - Addressing Comments From Our Daily Driver Video
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- In our last video, we talked about using a classic car as a daily driver, with an emphasis on leaving certain things like steering, suspension and brakes stock and unmodified, as they were originally designed and delivered from the factory.
That lead to some interesting points being made in the comments section, some of which were coming from a misinformed or inexperienced viewpoint.
We decided it would be a good idea to go back and elaborate on some of the points we made and our reasons for making them.
#cars #vintagecars #brake #jeep #mopar #musclecar #mechanic
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Happened in my 86 Firebird, pedal was spongey with little travel. Only got a few houses down from my house, immediately turned around and parked it. Luckily I only had to replace the master cylinder. I remember when you posted the video about stopping a car when the throttle sticks. I kid you not it happened to me a week after you posted it, but I remember what you said 1. Kill power, 2. Down Shift. Luckily my brakes also helped me gradually slow down. Being a 24 years old I feel that driving an older car makes me a better driver, because I don’t have time to be distracted by a phone. I’m looking at gauges, and feeling the car as it goes down the road. This was another educational video, your really helping young guys like me keep these old girls rolling.
I hate to break it to you but.... there is little something called Ncap..... when you see those cars in actual crashes I would not recommend to anyone to use car that old. They seem to be mobile coffins if something hits you. This comes from person who loves, smell of gasoline, oil, sounds, power it produces everything. But still.... Safety is important and there isnt any.
Take a crash in a old car any day of the week bub. You prolly think the government is here for our best interest to. Pssh sit down ncap
@@kylecromp319 Really ? You going to ignore the safety of modern cars as if you never seen crash test of older car and jump to insults ? Governments on the other hand.... yeah I dont feel to highly either ;)
1000% agree I can’t tell you how much more aware and in tune I am driving due to classic vehicles
Knowing what to do when your foot goes through the firewall, because yeah, that happens.
@@lobobaltazar1322
OMG, Bro! 😮.. I grew up in the 50's, and started with Oldsmobiles and GMs. Fkn deathtraps at any speed! They folded like accordions above 30 mph! Stopping distance at speed, measured in the hundreds of feet!
Even the movies of those boats flopping around used modified suspension and brakes and the best drivers of the time.
Thanks for your comment. Might save someone's life. Those piles of 💩 certainly never did! 😊👍
I’ll advocate that people also need to practice braking regardless what vehicle they’re driving. It’s a skill you need especially on something without ABS where you don’t want to just mash the pedal.
It’s a great way to see what the car will do when you need to stop quick. Does it lock the fronts? Rears? Just one wheel? Does it stay stable? Can you modulate the brakes so they don’t just stay locked? Can you brake hard enough to actually lock the wheels?
Excellent and underrated comment! You can buy the tool, doesn't mean you know how to use it!
The simplest answer is to adjust your driving style to the reality of the vehicle , what ever it is. Doesn’t stop like a Formula 1 car, just leave more space, brakes fade on long descents, go slower the entire grade, just do what professional drivers do. No matter what you drive, you always have to adjust for road conditions anyhow.
Yup all these cars with trac control, assisted braking/lane alignment have known to have radar failures, technology doesn't beat not being distracted and driving defensively.
There's no adjusting your driving style to a panic stop... that's what it is by definition. Sure, you might get more skilled at lowering your chance of having a panic stop situation, but you can't avoid them all. Shit happens, shit that is entirely out of your control.
Agreed, assuming the other drivers also agree. My 58’ Ranchero required more room to stop. People would take up my safety buffer. I updated my Ranchero with a 95’Fleetwood frame and drivetrain.
traitor. :)@@rickjames3253
@@Sam-go3mbI mean that’s with all cars but I can still panic stop in my 4 drum brake 66 galaxie just fine, it’s called I swerve outta the way
Really nice that someone has some complete common sense. So refreshing.
My only caveat would be upgrading the wheels. Only for the sake of ease of getting tires. 14” rim tires are not nearly as common as they used to be. Switching to 15 or 16” rims will make getting tires in an emergency and availability. Most tire shop won’t have many 14” tires or any at all. Better brake pads are a good idea (not upgraded brakes like drum to disc or stock discs to willwood). Just more aggressive pads over the stock style pads. But beyond that you should be fine with most cars. Be prepared to wait for parts if you need them. Also pick a common car (not just make). Picking a corvair and getting parts will be a lot harder or a longer wait vs a first Gen camaro. Make sure it has a strong aftermarket support. Something that you can find parts for in any parts store. And be prepared to learn to do stuff yourself and how to do it on the side of the road.
I imagine that profile can be toyed with to keep that overall diameter the same. I have used many online calculators for this and much daydreaming for the wheels I would like to have.
Given the shorter profile of modern 16" wheels, you can probably keep the tires/wheels within the fenders, but be prepared to flare them out. If "original" is important ("numbers matching" resto), then you simply have to go with what the car came with from the factory. Getting 13" or 14" tires isn't THAT hard, but you can't just pop into a Wal-Mart and drive out with new 'skins.
Another issue I run into is the opening in the rim for the hub. The factory steel rims match up perfectly. But all aftermarket rims are literally for trucks. I'm told Cougar XR7 rims don't have this central hole so it does not really matter. But I like the insurance of having the perfectly mated assembly.
series I reserch the tire diameter when switching from 14" to 15". Easy to find the charts online. I usually go from a 70 - 78 series 14" tire to a 60 - 65 series 15" tire.
I owned a 1980 corolla and they had 13" wheels.
I think they gave me trailer tires for that because that was all walmart had.
My current truck had 17" stock and I went to 18". I want to go back to 17" because that's what the truck was ment to have.
I got the truck with 20" and I don't like big bling wheels. I don't really like anything over the factory spec.
Tony, you are absolutely correct about the brakes. Go take one of your XJ’s out and stand on the brakes. The rears will not lock up. This is to keep it from swapping ends, like you said. 😉
BS
I don't know about xjs but most pick up trucks since the late 80s have some sort of rear only abs to prevent this from happening
Can you imagine going up a 40 degree slope in 4 L and find out your REAR BRAKES ONLY DRAG A LITTLE when you cant make the top!!!!@@kenleppek
I have a 98 xj no rear abs the proporcion valve cuts a lot of pressure to the rear. Its heavly bias toward the front.
A slight tangent but still applicable to the brake theme, I race a 1990 Mazda Miata with stock small brakes. It is a dedicated track car. I've done up to 25 hour endurance races (NASA's 25 hours of Thunderhill) as well as many other endurance to sprint races using 100% stock brakes with upgraded pads and fresh DOT 3 fluid with no issues. If there was any performance or safety advantage to upgrading the brakes, I would have done it but in my case, it would be a waste of my money for no gains.
I was in a national Club for 1967 - 73 Mercury Cougar. I read back in the late 80's early 90.s in a club newletter that there was a national show in Denver Colorado. Carss from all over the country. A comment was made was that the cars with stock carburetors had no problem adjusting to the elevation. Where the cars with aftermarket carburetors had issues.
Tony has talked about this before and he’s right. Use the hardware the manufacturer used and set up how they set it up. It’s all about how the vehicle load is balanced and not just how to stop the wheels spinning.
I'm restoring a '66 Barracuda. It has drum brakes all around, one master cylinder, and a 273 CID engine. The only mods I want to do is a 4 barrel carb, dual exhaust, and maybe a hotter cam. Therefore, I will keep the original braking system as is and keep it well maintained.
I was 16 years old when I experienced my first brake failure. I was driving a '66 C-10 pickup every day with no issues or indications of problems with the brakes, then at the worst possible time, heading into a left-hand hairpin turn with a steep drop on my right, I stepped on the brake pedal to slow for the turn and got a moment of pedal, then suddenly straight to the floor. No brakes at all. My left-front brake line had burst. I was able to abort the turn, cutting through a neighbor's yard, and was able to get the truck slowed and stopped by downshifting and turning off the key. All of my cars since then have always been upgraded to dual-circuit masters -- and had regular inspections of the lines.
The only part that i disagree with for daily driver is brakes. I to am a licenced since 1985 restoring a 51 dodge. It won't be a daily driver I installed front disc brakes, 2 stage master cylinder, combination valve, and booster. I have also installed seat belts. I think these are important upgrades even if you only drive it once in awhile.
One thing about modern master cylinders. They can be tandem but have one reservoir. I think the two reservoir models might be an exception now.
I ruined the proportion valve on my Plymouth listening to to many know-it-all's who said it was the cause of my rear brake issue - ended up been the old flexible hose had collapsed internally .
most people don't understand why many times a vehicle with 400 HP will out run another with 600HP you have to get the power to the ground. stopping ability has a lot to do with tires once they slide doesn't matter what brakes you have.
I totally agree a 400 to 450 moderate build with matched up gears - good trans build and proper stall converter will win out every time over both in street cruise compfort and sstop light launches. heres my post from above
@AlexJonesWasRight1776
52 seconds ago
I agree 100% Tony. Same with motor and trans people buy or build and want to cruise on the street 8 out of 10 times. I see have to much motor and an overall drivetrain setup that is nothing but a problem. A 700 HP LS injected motor with dry sump system coupled to a 4500 RPM stall converter on a 3 speed auto and 572 rear gears is a horrid idea for the street, highway driving and cruise innns.
When I first met my wife she had just bought her moms 67 mustang had the exact problem you talk about. The in laws had added front disc brakes but never dialed in the rear brakes so they were locking up first. That was the first thing I fixed on that car.
Thanks UTG I had a 1962 Corvair Rampside single master always stoped on a dime. My 1967 Dodge D200 same thing single master . Always stoped great noticed a leak one day changed out the wheel cylinder. Those rear brakes are a pain in the ass to Change out with that differential. Thanks for a great video.
The only advantage I believe with a front disc brake conversion is you don't have to ride with one foot on the brake to dry out the drum brakes after riding thru standing water after a heavy downpour. Or you next stop will not be efficient. If you do convert you need an adjustable proportioning valve and the peddle will be harder to push.
First: Aluminum Heads, Aluminum dual plain intake, AED Carb, 15x8's all around with Radials[maybe 15x10s or 12s in the back], Aluminum 4 row radiator, LED bulbs all around(not headlights), and leve stock until something breaks or needs a rebuild..... Then rebuild with CR 10.8 to 1 minimum, Nice street torque cam, DUI Performance ignition, new fuel tank, disc breaks all around, upgarde trans parts or new trans, UPGRADE entire suspension with QA1 parts..... Then drive to Tony's and show him what you did :-) ... **Always remember, engineers always made upgrades from year to year.
I cringe to think that anyone would convert to front disks without using a proportioning valve. Tony is right, the car will swap ends on a curve or very easily on a panic stop. I converted my '64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge to front disks and I'm happy with it... because I did it correctly using a Mopar disk/drum master cylinder, Mopar disk brakes and the correct spindles, and an adjustable proportioning valve. Also before driving it on the street I did several braking tests to set the proper rear brake bias on the proportioning valve. Stops very well with no tendency to swap ends. Know how braking systems work before just jumping in.
I have had single pot master systems fail by blowing a line, pedal hits the floor, zero warning, same thing happened with a dual pot, pedal did not hit the floor, was able to stop, I will never leave a single pot on any vehicle i own.
I drove a 1970 Firebird with front disc and rear drums great stoping power great driving car i loved that car wish i had it back.
Great advice. In the 70's I had a 68 300 with 440/727. I'd love to find a nice 68 Newport, even with just a 383, 2 door. I loved the sleek look of this era Chrysler. Hard to find one not costing too much. I'd keep it all stock. It probably would be a somewhat constant job to keep it going but being a car guy and having 50 years overall mechanical experience, no problem for me to do that.
Love the Newport style. Especially 70-71. Clean. Polaras too. 383 is just fine
UT is absolutely correct. this is a very common misconception. yes disk brakes look cool but you need to do it right or not do it at all
Ive got a '68 Ford wagon with a 2 barrel 390, automatic, all original aside from cruise control added aftermarket which im eventually going to undo professionally, I want to fix up a few things but the only 2 things im changing are the paint and adding a vintage style bluetooth radio, but every last other piece is being left alone up to the lapbelts and all
Actually quite nice and practical enough except for the gas mileage but no regrets
Repairing and fixing vehicles is no joke. Peoples' lives depend on you doing the job correctly.
Sounds like people were getting butt hurt. The more you modify a car, the less street-able it is as a daily driver.
I read forums that young people go on, being one of them, and a lot of people have zero understanding of the modifications they make and the effect they have on the car.
I almost killed my self doing crazy suspension and engine mods to a street car…
This is the reason why the cost of a proper upgrade can be expensive. Brakes are just one example, any proper upgrade can be too expensive to justify, Brakes, suspension, drive train. It's not often a single component in a circuit can be changed to achieve the desired result. Everything has to work together synchronously.
The brake discussion reminds me of stupid youthful decisions. Had a 1955 Cadillac Fleetwood in college 20+ years ago. Driving on a highway that came into a town, I tapped the brakes and went from the left lane into the right lane. I knew the car was losing brake fluid but hey, top it off and it all seemed fine was fine, right? Turns out that I was stopping that behemoth with exactly 1 of the 4 front brake shoes. Driver's side wheel cylinder was leaking but ruptured that day, so that's where the fluid was going. Passenger side had one seized piston cup and one functioning. Learned valuable lessons from that experience and was lucky there was no one in the right lane when the car lurched into that lane. And it speaks to those who like and want to drive an old car but don't know that much about them, it can be very dangerous to self and others. Have learned much since then!
Uncle Tony did not evaluate the setup in my '65 Valiant bracket racer. it had factory drum brakes from the factory. When I installed a 1970 Challenger/Barracuda 8 3/4 differential I noticed the drums were larger and finned. I replaced the front shoes with metalic shoes at the same time, but retained the single master cylinder and brake lines. I don't remember any uneven brake performance either at the drag strip or on the street. Then again, I don't recall making any emergency stops back then either (1970's).
Generally, if you lose all brake function, it's because you've ignored all the warning signs. I'm always checking fluid levels and poking around underneath keeping an eye on stuff. You have to listen to what your car is telling you.
Mr uncle Tony's garage guy you are a legend I've learned so much don't know how to thank you watching your videos over the years when I first got into the cars engrade 11 I remember when my Grandpa gave me an old truck it was a 85 Chevy C30 my grandpa and all my family told me I could never get it up and going and watch your videos just like with the vise grip and Nick's garage and I remember I got the motor on stock and I remember working on it and I remember when I first fired it up
Uncle Tony, You are right on the money here. I got a 4X4 K 10 Chevy Suburban and I chose to put a 1 ton Corporate GM rear axle on it. This axle has monstrous huge brakes and man do they work. I am a driver, I mean a real driver and I am able to handle the changes. Yes the rear brakes are super strong. You can feel it whenever you touch the brakes. This works fine on dry pavement. I didn't get the chance to try it in snow but I bet it would have been squirrelly. I eventually changed to another axle because the ring and pinion gave out.
Right. Great Advice. I just picked up a 289 1966 Galaxie 500. I love it. But I had to drive it 1700 miles home. The suspension needs to be done. I ended up in the truck lane on the mountains. It's mostly stock. But it made it and it was hell of a road trip. I don't have the time to really work on it. It ran fine stock. No major issues.
If your old enough to remember 1970, all those 340 Dusters and Darts were supposed to come from the factory with power disc brakes, but we were told there was a strike.involving the booster supplier, and they held off delivering the cars. Eventually our car was delivered, last week of June, with manual disc brakes, heavy pedal pressure, but you get accustomed to it, and I think we got about $25 back. There were a lot of 70’s with no power brakes, I’ve owned another since then.
Ive had bad drums on classics. They were doing the job when taken care of but on the Chevelle I had I replaced every part of the full drum assembly, and it stopped amazingly well. On my first car a Camaro it dived but it stopped. I like my drum brakes they work just fine when adjusted and taken care of.
It makes sense to me that a 2”x6-8” brake shoe would be better than a 2”x3” pad!🤔
Couldn't agree more. Keep your DD as stock, in form and function, as possible to keep it reliable, save and except replacement parts that are improved over stock.
brake ssytem. cilinders dont last so much like the old ones...and people should never forget.
Brake fluid should generally be replaced every two years, i only change when its dirty.
My college instructor would ask us fellas how many of us could tune or modify a vehicle and do a better job than the engineering team. When a couple of us put hands up...the lecture would start.
That was 1975. It's certainly the same issue in today's vehicles. Don't fix what you don't understand.
I agree Tony. My 2021 Toyota Tacoma has drum brakes. I seen these brake last many miles. My other car is a 2012 Honda Civic. My rear drum brakes have over 100,000 miles and still look like new. Most rear disk brake pads last only 30,000 miles.
Modern cars use the rear brakes for traction control as well as braking, which wears them out.
Uncle Tony is the Mechanic Guru 🙏🏼
I would like some power steering on my 73 B100 though.
Id say there are a few small exceptions to this rule. Its what i call OEM plus.
Example. I swapped a 6.0L LQ9 in my 05 1500 silverado. Originally it came with a 5.3 so its not original. However it obvuosly shares basically all its parts with a 5.3 and the few things that are different are no harder to obtain really. Additionally something like wheels. I put 2021 RST silverado wheels on it. If in some scenario you smoked a tire or an entire wheel on a trip finding another 18" wheel is no harder than the 17s it came with. Point is, any other oem parts from a dofferent car that fit properly can be a nice way to get the benefits of upgrades while not making it harder for the average joe to service.
The relationship between horsepower and the brakes is consummated via the nut holding the steering wheel...
Agreed on all points, especially the Horsepower vs Brakes. This never made any sense to me.
If you use that horse power to go faster and drive more aggressively, yes.
There is a simple correlation between HP and brakes. A car with high HP that weighs 3,400 lbs needs beefy brakes. Don't overthink it and drive yourself crazy.
I agree been there do that. I use a older Volvo (27 years old) as my exclusive highway car. It is all stock and impeccably maintained. Two years ago I had to replace the steering rack and this year the front struts needed to be replaced due to leaking. I would never think twice of driving it cross the country and back. Use it as a daily driver, it would never happen because of the wear and tear on the car would cost me a fortune to keep it up due to it's age. It's a garage queen that was set up back in 2005 specifically to be an exclusive highway car. Since 2005 it's only averaged 3,500 miles a year and during it's life time less than 5,400 miles a year. It might sound like fun to use a classic as a daily driver but you have time working against you. Time as in it's an older car, things wear out, older technology especially when it comes to protecting the passengers during an accident.
Regular parts replacement is key to keeping an old vehicle safe and reliable, although often, it's good old rust in the structural areas that eventually kills off the old vehicles.
If you like to beat the crap out of your car, having brakes that don't fade out when they get hot is kind of a plus. Especially when is as easy as a set of spindles, rotors and calipers from a '74 Dart... drum brakes suck.... if you drive hard...
I Agree somewhat but why not use an adjustable proportioning valve? Simply swapping the front to discs is not the right way to do it. Willwood makes a good adjustable valve.
I wouldn’t call myself an expert but I’ve been down that road a few times. Test panic stops in a parking lot in the rain after mods and adjust the rear bias so it doesn’t lock up.
I have a modified 70 Mustang and an 55F100 both with aftermarket braking systems and they panic stop in any weather no problems.
Granted, a lot needs to be understood to do it properly but both vehicles stop way better than original.
Also anyone doing this or driving a classic vehicle may need to look up panic stopping without antilock brakes.
Ive had 1 badly warped rim on the back, and the whole car shook like bad u joint.
You also need to learn how to stop with your emergency brake. This is also something you should practice, it has saved me a few times over the years. Also if your a young guy go take a racing school class not to race but for the skills that you will get no place else. These skills made me a much safer driver than the average guy.
Most stock gearing don't like interstate speeds
an old car as a daily driver... aim at an auto from the very late 60's
engine durability/valve survival is important. manual trans are hard to find
and worth hunting. I'd hunt a middle 70's manual mid size Chrysler
as about a Q-boat as can be found.
I also agree brake modifications must be completed with proper proportioning front to back.
The issue being that the cars most needing those Mods, earlier than 1965-ish, are not good for
service on current roads.
The hp vs brake issue, I'd disagree with that. When you increase hp ,that means it can accelerate quicker, which gives the brake system less time to dissipate heat between stops. A 170 dart with 9" drums might be OK stock but that same car at the same weight but 400hp is going to get you in trouble
Ive also lost brakes, road salt eats brake lines. If you don't catch it they burst when you panic stop for freaking deer. Yeah you ain't got much left with dual circuit, but you got something to get home if you drive real slow. Single you got absolutely nothing real quick.
Best bet is keep an eye on the hard lines, but seen it happen on new enough vehicles that you wouldn't expect it. On something from 1970 or whatever you tend to check that stuff closer. My experience in road salt land, is if it's around 10ish years old, start looking at those brake lines. If you're adding fluid, its leaking, find the leak!
The average person doesn't know crap about brakes and tires. They know what motor trend editors tell them. I took one of my techs pick up truck to go grab some parts recently. One of his brake lines blew in the middle of the trip while u was in a big city. I heard it, felt it, and drove it all the way back to the shop because I instantly knew what it was. Also got out and double checked of course. I have lived through countless brake and tire problems, but the average person doesn't. They aren't stupid, they just don't have the experience that a mechanic has. I always recommend people find a good shop with a great mechanic and stuck with it forever. Drum brakes and old cars can be driven a lot but have to be checked out a lot. You can change your life having a tire that has a nail in it or rusty brake lines. Understand your machine. If it feels wrong, it IS wrong.
Tony, love you bud, but I've come to appreciate that the stuff you know is bulletproof. The stuff you don't know on the other hand is off the charts. You ditched the whole miata project because somehow you did'nt understand how an independent rear housing should be secured to the chassis. That's pretty fundamental. I guess you can only learn from somebody what they know. What a shocker. Keep up the good work.
Very Nice Job Tony ,So Much Truth There !!!
There are a lot of disk brake conversion kits available and anyone that doesn’t understand they need to use a proportioning valve when doing a disc brake conversion should not be working on cars. 🤦♂️
For the record, the internal combustion engine is at most ~38% efficient due to frictional losses. There is a better way. Our technological machinery, and precision have come a long way
and it is now not only feasible, but more cost effective to create a hybrid integrated system which uses the most efficient means of propulsion. Using steam, hydraulics, and AC induction
in a computer controlled environment where each wheel is a prime mover is better than any alternative. With a vane drive for high torque/low RPM, an impeller driven by steam as a
mid torque/mid RPM, and AC induction as a low torque/high RPM, using regenerative systems to recapture all three for braking, and active suspension, and recharging. The list of
components is short, and all could be housed in an under body chassis, which would allow any body to be dropped on top. I'm 61, been a mechanic for 45+ years, as well as an
electrician, plumber, carpenter, welder, HVAC tech, and sensor expert, and more. This is not a whimsical pipe dream, it is a vehicle that can be driven for unlimited distances, but would
involve logical restraints on use, i.e. repeated zero to top speed burnouts over, and over, and over. Depends on whether you want a race car, or a means of automotive transportation.
Rotating mass (wheel/tire assys) + Velocity = Force / Braking energy. The heavier the rotating mass and faster you go the heavier the braking Fforce needed, like putting giant wheels and tires on a 4x4 with brakes designed for 25" tires. They're quickly overcome and stopping becomes a true challenge unless you upgrade the entire brake system accordingly. Same goes for cars, hotrods that are going faster than the standard speeds for which the stock brakes were designed, etc.. Mass + speed = force, increasing either mass or speed increases force.
I'm a fan of having at least two legitimate reasons to mod something, and it looks/sounds/feels cool aren't legit reasons. If i can't find two good arguments for changing something i leave it alone. I've modded about 95% of my motorcycle, but all the mods are carefully chosen for strength, reliability, and usability. My stock front brake was dismal, i swapped it for a massive 340mm rotor because it was very much needed.
But i'm not a 'daily driver' type of dude either, my "commute" is over a mile high, 1000' vertical altitude change, twisty cliffside rough dirt, rock, sand, mud, or snow, ice depending in season, and a few hundred yards of potholed pavement that looks like it was cluster bombed before i was born. 'Jeep people' come up here and park by the trail to my house, ake selfies, blogging about "we made it!!!" lol. If you live on a mountain peak or off grid in he desert, then your stock daily driver is probably gonna need see upgrades, but if you're just rolling around on smooth pavement down there in flatland then stock is usually your best bet for reliability.
Trying to daily a built car , for the majority of people will ruin the hobby for them. Iv done it many many times. But I loved the challenge. Now you can spice up your car a lil small cam with stock converter, intake, carb headers. Your usually safe. But man after that don't burn yourself out. And stock brakes 99% of the time just fine.
Uncle Tony did you ever drive your Roadrunner to the Gemini Lounge?
OK, so I'm one of the guys who mentioned suspension and brakes, and the problem is stopping distance; even at relatively low speeds, a modern car can cut over in front of you and hit the brakes, and there's no way your Dart is going to stop in time.
Cutting over and hitting the brakes, that’s a Bozo move, and that’s where a dash cam comes in real handy, apportioning blame.
@@jamesblair9614 That's nice, but it doesn't help whoever got hurt or killed in the accident.
Just an addition comment. I mispelled imparative. Sorry, but, no one should assume monster brake conversions will stop your car in a shorter distance with stock tires. Bigger brakes and wider tires (if they can be fiited) go together.
I had a 1966 Plymouth Fury. Single master cylinder. I disagree. I blew a brake line and lost all brakes. Blew through red light and took out a k5 Blazer. Every dual master cylinder car that has happened with still had some brakes. I live on the rust belt in Ohio. I have driven some rust buckets.
and for you guys that think drilled and slotted rotors brake better, you are wrong. Drilled and slotted rotors have less material to for pads to work with. Less braking power. Better cooling but less stopping
I hear ya UT. My daily driver is a 76 F150 4x4. It is bone stock. 360 4 psd manual. Works perfectly. I also have a 68 Mustang, highly modified but not stupid horse power. I rarely drive it, but I like it. But for daily driving I will take the truck. Perfect for my life.
Front to rear brake bias is important! You have to coordinate things like the engineers designed things or disaster can happen!
Let me tell you something, pal. I am a car guy, but nowhere near on your level. I was, however, once a jet egine mechanic. I remember when I was in school learning how to do that.
There were two kinds of instructors. One kind searched for the rarest words possible. He tried to "explain" things by reciting them in the same way the engineers wrote them down. We were a classroom full of 18 year old kids, who had no idea what most of these words meant. The first challenge was looking up all of the terms they used, and that had to be done before we ever even got to starting to figure out what in the hell he was trying to explain.
The second kind used plain language. He translated big words into little ones and broke things down in a way that made sense to our young, inexperienced brains. In HIS class you could spend 100% of your time learning to understand how these things actually worked, rather than developing vocabulary. I could learn from this kind of instructor. I DID learn from this kind of instructor.
With that first kind, I learned how to pass the test. With the second kind, I learned how to work on the engines.
You sir, are that second kind. This is a deep compliment, because that second kind is the kind I respect. You are concerned with passing along the information and not with stroking your own ego. I can learn from you.
Hand salute, Tony. I really enjoy your channel.
Thank You!
I do want to hear what you have to say; but I cant take the " but I have good intensions babbling " get to point Tony!
another log i'll toss onto this fire...if you're using a something from the 1960's for a daily driver by choice and not because you're broke, and you decide to ditch that AM radio and maybe toss in some electric fans because your sheet metal 4 blade fan just ain't doing it in modern traffic...upgrade the alternator as well.
I'm dubious of the supposed advantages of the dual circuit brake system, although I do understand the system's operation in theory. I've had brake failure twice in my life, both in late model cars that blew out a hard line going towards the rear wheels (from corrosion - welcome to the rust belt) and I immediately had the pedal go completely to the floor with no actual braking effect whatsoever. I ended up sailing through an intersection with the horn blaring, with lots of tyre squealing and a cloud of smoke from pulling the handbrake. In theory this should not happen, as both vehicles had dual circuit brake systems that worked perfectly up to that point, but there was no "remaining brake pressure from the other circuit" as the theory says should happen.
Late model.
These rules go out the window.
Circuits could converge in the abs unit.
I disagree. I had a 64 chevy step side 1/2 ton with a single cylinder brake. Pulled to a stop when a back line had a hole pop in it and my foot went to the floor. No brakes period after that. Just lucky I had stopped prior to burst or I would of had a crazy ride. So you don't always have at least one stop.
Just mind the fact that If you have an accident in a car this old it has the safety of a paper bag.
I drive motorcycles gsx-r1100, ytf600r but I dont think they are great daily drivers - drive for the fun of it and put my milage in modern (newer than 2000) cars.
Tony Tony Tony ...
Metering valve on the brake system? I've also seen that block in the brake plumbing referred to as proportioning valve.
After years of hearing this myth and wondering how it worked I took one apart and found only a lock off spool valve, there was zero mechanisms for metering or proportioning. Zero. None, Nada.
Only thing in the block was a spool that shifts position isolating the brake circuit not developing pressure. And a detent holding the lockoff spool in position. And a switch for the dash light.
But not one damned thing to meter or proportion.
so i commented on that vid about my daily 62 pontiac catalina 4 dr hard top...its stone stock....2 bbl single exhaust points drums on all 4 corners power brakes power steering....i drive it 4-5 hrs on the highway at 70-80 mph....she runs great on th highway with the 2:56 gears great daily around town.....but i also have a 62 catalina with a worked dual quad 389 muncie 4 speed 3:90s out back....manual steering manual brakes bench seat.....no heater no radio factory delete car....i love to drive it.....but it sucks to just drive it around town like a normal daily driver....it has no street manners at all....its like trying to drive a vintage super stocker to get milk....i get i built it that way but its only happy being beat on while you shove your foot threw the floor while banging gears.......i also have a 66 grand prix tri power 4 speed 8 lugs....heater power brakes power steering.....its the best of both worlds....its stock enough to deal with daily summer or winter....but that tri power and 4 speed makes it fun enough to play with....headers and glass packs makes it sound hotter then it is....its not beating any records but its fun.....on the brake issue....always check the E brake and make sure its functional cause as you said when wheel cylinders go....they go....to alot of warning before hand....they was designed to be daily drove in there time....with proper maintaince and up keep you can daily a car or truck from the 50s-60s.....i beleive if you want the famcy bells and whistles of a new car buy a new car if you want the experiance of living with a classic theres things you just learn comes with it....kinda the nature of the beast type of thing.....but i mean i guess each to there own....
Got to agree with Tony. I have three late 90's Chevy OBS with rear drums. The brakes work perfect, no need to modify them.
Interesting point of view, planned obsolescence is so much more prevalent today than 30 years ago. No one talks about how that can get you killed. But I don't really fall into the group you speak of I guess.
maybe you don't understand how physics works when you have paid 5.000$ on a car from the junkyard: 1 you ask google a few questions so that you are now an expert. 2 you buy some shiny stuff chosen from a cool seller with cool brand so you have the best components. 3 you put them together using fasteners. 4 no budget left so repair rust holes with bondo. 5 make a good filming with postproduction and post it on social
It’s all relative man I drive a geo metro on 25x8 atv tires everyday 48 miles to work on the hwy. had to take a sawzall to the fenders and put a lift on it. Is it meant to be an off-road vehicle? God no it’s got 3 cylinders and it’s front wheel drive, but it now does pretty fucking good off-road all while getting 50 mpg.
Yeah just leave it stock and maintain it in good condition...
There's a lot of Chev pickups and old Honda's with rear drums, along with 18 wheelers.
If your car is newer than 1952 the EPA already has laws on the books to where if it's modified past stock in any form beyond its original purpose at some point in the future they can and will confiscate your cars which is another very good reason for keeping them stock love you Uncle Tony sorry you lost your sense of humor UA-cam seems to do that to peopel
Big t I drive a 1950 Morris Oxford drum brakes nothing wrong with it cheap on fuel reliable ideal for putting around town the furthest ive taken it is 230 km went great 50 miles per hour no worries
GRRRRR- PAAAAKKKK!
Steve Magnate explained some engineering braking flaws from some cars. Imagine when they messed with DIY swaps on those cars.
Anyone else here who broke a park gear ramming the transmission lever in park before hitting a car or any object from instant brake failure ? Hand brake wasn't enough. As if dual pots did a difference when my brake hose instantly broke from rust. Yeah, we have more rust here in upper Canada. LOL
E-BRAKE did little to none if not worse from rear sliding left and right at 30 mph. foot e-brakes with foot unlocking, car 100 feet in front,
Try to put in park. GRRRRRRR-PAAAK.
Good thing the ditch wasn't deep. Shit happens and Tony is absolutely right on the pin again. How many Slant 6 dusters or Mavericks where v8 swaped and the suspension nor the brakes were upgraded.
They didnt really tought about it back then and millions of accidents were cause by messing with the engineering blueprint safety designs, wich are already put to limits sometime from bad driving.
I think the bigger thing to look at is people love things that are familiar such as disc brakes Because just about anybody can work on it today. But bringing your car with drum brakes someplace today I don’t think they would even know what they’re looking at😂
I TOTALLY agree with you. Shared.
My 67 coronet r/t has manual steering and manual single pot 4 whee drums and I have only ever lost brakes once. I took back roads home and slowly drove and slowed the car with down shifting. My 71 duster 421- 4 speed I'm doing I swapped to 73-76 spindles and big bolt pattern manual disc brakes up don't but I also took the proportioning valve off the parts car and master so it can all go back stock. I don't steer off to far from stock specs aside from built engines and trans
You are one of the few people that actually talks about how serious this stuff is and how hurt or killed you can get.
the problem begins with owners who simply lack common sense and use their vehicle to an extreme it was never intended to be used to achieve.
@@northdakotaham1752 and those need have changed over the years. The entire system should be modified to a 1975 or later spec like car to be safe for most of todays driving. Ask my 63 chevy nova with a poorly engineered rear suspension That goes into random speed wabbles at 70mph . This was an engineering flaw from the factory. Need to put track bars on the rear and modify the brakes to make it safe for just about any driving situation on todays roads. One of the reasons I stopped driving it 20 years ago and havent restored it yet. Need to spend lots of $$$ to make it safe.
Probably not.@@Mikefngarage
You just made me think of something. When I was a lad, I worked in a shop doing oil changes and simple repairs. One thing a lot of people may not realize is that there were a lot of cars in the 50's and 60's that did not have self-adjusting brakes. Part of the routine when doing an oil change was adjusting the brakes. That is something to consider if you are choosing a classic car as a daily driver. Cars that did not have the brakes regularly adjusted would not necessarily be apparent to the driver but if the brakes got wet driving through a puddle, it may not be able to apply enough braking pressure to stop.
I have a 1970 shop manual that details and diagrams a traction control system that appears to be all analog.
Equipping a 1950s-1960s vintage ride that didn't originally come with self-adjusting rear drum brakes to have them isn't difficult. It's a matter of what will fit on the backing plate. As well as using the correct drum/shoe width.
I can’t seem to go more than 100 miles in my 1950 without one side or the other not engaging properly and it yanking to the right or left. Not a mechanic myself, but it seems to be a problem with the remanufactured slave cylinders.
Absolutely true. Know your car. Does it have self adjusters? if not, take the time to adjust the brakes at least every oil change
I have seen a lot of people who wanted a cool old car until they drove it every day.
Brakes are a system that unless you have extensive training and experience one should not change.
I have converted several cars but I don’t lack experience nor training.
Failure is always a problem one has to contend with so having new parts every few years is what you MUST DO to safe.
Thank you Chrysler Training Center Kansas City for teaching me brake systems and brake safety.
Greetings UT from the high plains of Texas .
1st thing first, research, talk to someone who knows, get all compatible parts together to avoid pitfalls
We had a mid 80s TBird for a few years. The brakes started giving us trouble. Took it to a "reputable" shop. Two days later the pedal is spongy and down on fluid. Take it back they bleed the system. Two days later its spongy again. This goes on for about a week and a half. Finally I pop the hood in the garage. As Nd start looking for leaks. Master cylinder was fine. Proportioning valve literally 12 inches away had a trail of fluid running down the inner fender. That explains the quotation marks around reputable.
And I agree that a lot if people if they drove older cars as daily drivers would realize that a lot of older cars were junk when new.
They would be wrong and should stick with brand new cars.And I would agree a lot of people are cowering weaklings@@mpetersen6
If you can lock up the tires or get into ABS, “upgrading” the brakes will do virtually nothing for a single stop. Your tires are the weakest link.
BOSS,, if possible I would like to do to,, 10inch Drum upgrade... From the stock 9inch.. for ease of Drums replacement and Wheel Patterns, rim size and tire availability..
I know it's a Mopar parts bin swap .
DHCC 🐴
@@NathansMoparGarage DEAD HORSES CAR CLUB...
Gotta go with Tony on this one.. the man knows what he’s talking about!! Leave it the heck alone
Tony has a proper set of scales - he can find both total weight, and front/rear weight distribution. That just might be important. I can't think of any tv show putting on shiny new parts they called "upgrade" that weighed the car and did any math for the audience.
For some, yes, leave it alone. If you are competent, make the change. Just consider upkeep costs and availability of replacement parts if you truly want a daily driver.
Except the dual reservoir master.....If you have driven one even with stock drums. dual reservoirs stop better. it is the brake pressure leverage. The pedal is easier and stopping is better in panic situations. Better control. I used to think like tony does but I know better now after doing both.
@@craighansen7594 Yea like Hey I need some new front drums for a 1963 Cadillac....If you can find them? Time to do the whole system upgrade. They were 300 each 30 years ago. Some of these kits use a "like " later model car that you convert the whole thing to. Like a DeVille break system from a 76 or later model Whole system including Master front and rear brakes and proportioning valve. The Hard lines should be replaced anyway on something that old.
my 1963 nova had a Rear leaf spring issue. They roll over and at highway speeds it gets a random speed wabble at 70 you can barely keep it on the road. Happens intermittently. You Need to put track bars on the rear and either coil overs or modify the rear suspension just to make it freeway safe. Stock is not enough for todays roads.
B
🍟
Dual pot brakes certainly need a proper proportioning valve, because otherwise things are gunna go nutz really fast.
In a dual system, the master pistons can be different diameters.
@@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259 True, and on some cars its about 0.80:1 to the front.
This varies a lot on vehicle geometry from the factory, of course, though.
So what will work on a station wagon will not necessarily work on a 2 door muscle car.