Mikey Here! If you guys would like daily form reviews or are interested in having a daily coach, be sure to check out www.patreon.com/overthrowdiscgolf and sign up for the Daily Form Review $50 tier :) I'll see you on the other side!
For the love of your alien abductor. Listen to your body and DO NOT HURT URSELF. Go slowly. Do not max power dat boi until you know that your arm can handle that motion. My arm currently protects itself from the arm wrestle by dipping. So I’m starting slow as well
@@TkKid1990 Would be pretty meta for this to be the way I find out I have multiple personality disorder. My wife gonna be so mad when she finds out I'm also some guy who plays drums.
Physical therapy student here. When you’re “winning the arm wrestle,” your shoulder is flexed around 60-80 degrees and is near end range internal rotation. This tensions the ligaments of the glenohumeral joint capsule, resulting in a “locked” feeling in the shoulder. Basically, the ball of your shoulder is running out of space to move in the socket. If this position feels uncomfortable, by all means, be smart and gradually work into that position, throwing less than max power at first. I would also recommend trying some basic shoulder internal range of motion exercises to work at getting into that position. Edit: It is also a good idea to perform some variation of resisted shoulder external rotation. Several of the rotator cuff muscles perform this motion and eccentrically control the shoulder in this position. Think of these muscles as rubber bands getting tensioned. Resistance training makes them more durable, decreasing risk of injury.
I just love how this is broken down to three simple steps , three crucial steps to gaining distance. So many UA-camrs trying to make it complicated when it really is three simple steps pretty much. Love this ❤
I meaaaannnnnn. These are three things that helped me for sure. But there is a lot more than these three things people have to work on. And these three things are soooo tough to implement 😂 they have been kicking my butt for the past 2 months
After a Scott Stokely clinic I focused on winning the arm wrestle and not uncoiling before the plant. It got me from being hardstuck at 280ft to getting around 300-315. Then I added not opening my fingers and letting the disc rip out. This got my open field max to 360.
Just want to say that I love the videos that you and Josh put out. Before I watched your videos, I was throwing about 315-320'. Since then, I've had multiple throws hit around 350' and even 360'. My furthest throw is currently 381'. I still have a long way to go, but I'll definitely be putting this video to use!
5:53 Plant and Throw Disc Golf is born! 😂 Seriously though, so glad to see your rapid performance improvement, and your placement not only at USDGC, but doing so well in the Tech Disc event, too. Keep up the great work Mikey and Josh!
Thank you! Anticipating the throw with hips also is a thing I'm learning to avoid it. Now I'll add to avoid also anticipating the shoulders movement, giving priority to the arm. For the second (b) tip, I think one could speak about mantaining the throwing arm parallel to the ground if the throw is straight (and anyway 90° to the body for hyzers and anhyzers)
Fantastic Video Fellas. A lot of these topics (especially the elbow dipping prevention) have crossed my mind. I let it slip thinking it was a bad idea because of the stretch it gave in the shoulder muscle.
For me personally on tip 3) the hardest habit to break is not putting the heel down at peak reach back. Rotating from ball of lead foot and planting is the error. Good news is you'll feel what Mikey is talking about when you do it right
I’ve been wanting to move from 58-60mph to the 65+ range, and I think these tips may be the ticket! I’ll have to make sure to hit the brace, THEN the arm comes in. I also throw the arm too soon.
Nice tips, that are easy to practice. From ball golf I was told to practice a full swing that must only be 2/3 of your normal distance. This forces you to slow down and quite often it is really hard to hit the 2/3 distance as the more relaxed swing has much better timing. The effect for many is that they will shoot just as far with 60% power. This drill works for disc golf as well - it could be cool to see how you would perform with the Techdisc on this drill
When I first saw Overthrow I thought man I'd like to learn how to throw that far. Finally got to the same point and now this guy is throwing 82 when I finally get to 72? Time to catch up again
Nice job Mikey! You do just fine in front of the camera.Congrats on top five at the USDGC DC! ( or is it a distance showcase?) USDGCDS? 😁Either way well done!
I am 52 and can max throw on flat ground up to 350-360' when practicing... I mostly throw 280-320' during those practice sessions. the reason I mention my age is bc it is VERY difficult to build muscle memory when you get older. So my question is, in what order should I start grinding these 3... I am inclined to start with the first, throwing the arm. TIA!
Re: the arm angle. I really agree with that - I was throwing just recently. Easy throws for me going a good distance, and then when I don't keep that arm angle, it's awkward, difficult, shorter and (in some cases) painful. Takes me back to the old Simon & Eagle video where they say something like, "I'm sure this looks really easy, and it is!" hahahaha when you line the body up right, you can get really good distance without feeling like it's a huge effort.
I should have mentioned originally how awesome it is to see you hit this milestone you were after :) I've followed your form adventures and I'm thrilled to hear (and see) your success. I think you'll make a great coach because you've had to learn everything, so you will know how to instruct because you've had to learn it as an adult!
Make sure when you have shoulder tension in the position around the 5:00 minute mark that you don't externally rotate (forearm and hand rotated a couple of degrees up) on the follow through as an exploration working on the angle because you'll dislocate your shoulder and tear your labrum. Follow through like you are pulling super low and rounding.
I have the exact same issues you have and had. I'm currently stuck around 72 MPH as well. Let me try these over the next month and see if I can speed it up. I have been loving the arm wrestle cue.
arm wrestle cue is insane. Ive got a lot of high level cues for speed if you are stuck at 72. A lot of throwing faster is mental. Sounds weird, but if you are interested in the mental aspect to throwing faster sign up for the daily form review tiers and i can look at form and we can chat about the mental side of things.
What disc are max distance throwers typically using? What does the shape of the flight path look like. We always see the mechanics, which is the most important part but it’s also important to know what the flight path of the disc typically looks like when people maximize their distance.
Ok, first off, you nailed being in front of the camera. You're always a bit awkward anyways, so that's just it being what it is ;) I will implement all these tips and grind. I am looking for speed, because I think this is what is currently keeping me plateaued at distance. Plus I am nearly 40 by now so I need to step things up to get to 500 in my lifetime :D
I’m stuck around 62 mph. However my plan is to do 1. Plant closed/shorter stride 2. Rotate on heel to release energy 3. and then full plant/full coil. Off arm should fix itself as I fix the heel rotation
I figured out this one early spring this year to really pull with the hand before rotation. But practise takes time, still when speeding up with feet, my hand is too slow and I rotate early losing power. The Full coil is more like you should not full coil before full plant. I'm practicing to start coiling when my toes hit the ground and be fully coiled when heel hits the ground. Still working on it though :D ... great vid. I must get into winning the arm wrestle in the winter, found a new muscle it seems :D.
Sounds to me like you are trying to coil too fast. I’ve found that having a slow and loose feeling coil is the best coil. And it starts during the last step, not when the toe touches. That would be too late to be loose and controlled
Feels like Proctor would be a good point of reference for winning the arm wrestle, as he does tip 2 in his swing, no? Anyways, something to try out today!
I’ve found more accuracy with my form changes but harder to control speed. Gap hitting at max speed is insanely good now. Powering down for an approach? Not so hot lol. I’ll have Josh coach me through powered down accuracy
I wonder if the reason you struggled with tip 2 is the same reason you feel a stretch when you do it right: you naturally have less mobility in that direction. Ive never struggled with keeping the arm up, and I only feel a stretch if I internally rotate super deep
@@OverthrowDiscGolf You haven't played in a tournament yet? I'd definitely do that when you can because it's way different in some ways. Just don't sandbag and start down with us in MA4 😜
I am currently trying to throw 300 feet. So 600 feet seems a bit excessive. In fact, I think I never would need to throw over 350. But the struggle is real! It has not been easy... 🙄
Yup. Rotation is still apart of the full throw. The throwing behind drill teaches you the feeling of what is happening while rotating. But I’m not rotating as fast as possible. Just enough to let my arm get into a more powerful throwing position. Video clarifying that is already on our channel but maybe I do a follow up
Honestly I have bad experiences with big run ups. If you do have a big runup I’d suggest really getting your leg out in front of you to successfully resist all those ground forces. Timing on big runups is INSANELY DIFFICULT. Much easier to learn with a more mild runup. Doesn’t take much to make a difference
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I usually use a small run-up, and it only adds a bit more speed to my throws compared to when I throw from a standstill. I tested with a techdisc and it shows only 5 mph difference :(
Since a lot of this doesn't add up to regular form, I was very surprised to see zero evidence presented here. Not a single throw showing this alleged speed or distance, let alone throws with the tech disc which would have definitively shown the demonstrable results of the form change.
One less person for me to worry about beating in next years distance competition ;) I’m just here to help. You can choose to criticize, or you can choose to get better. ❤️
This is so strange to me. As someone who can scrape 70 sometimes, i already do all of these, theyve all been things i worked hard on. I think my problem must be more balance/lower body/posture related. I feel like im in a weird position in my form journey where most people learned in your order, and i learned this upper body stuff first.
For someone like you I’ve got some good brain hacks to throw harder. So much of increasing my speed was a mental thing. Tech Disc is really what made the biggest difference to finding speed. I found that I can have pretty bad form and still throw fast. Pop on the daily form reviews tier and I can walk you through some speed training stuff if you like where your form is at. All good in not though. I’ll have videos coming out explaining it all soon
@OverthrowDiscGolf Interesting, for me, if my form isn't on then I'm throwing maybe 5-7 mph slower than my regular peak. I think I will hop on that tier (next month, away from home right now) and see what you have to say. Recently I feel like I figured out that I have my weight too far over my toes and I need to (what feels like to me) be leaning back as I do the x-step and plant. It made it a bit easier to hit my higher speeds consistently but didn't immediately add anything. Also for what it's worth I know I have a lot of lower body power available to add because I can jump putt 200 feet and on techdisc my jump putt is faster than some people's throws 😅. Still, I can't break 500 backhand, even if techdisc thinks my 69 mph throws could do it, I haven't really done it with an actual throw.
When i get into the deep pocket, I increase speed by 3-4 mph and it feels more effortless as you say, but I lose 100-150 rpm of spin. Do you have any idea why?
Keep a loose grip but also add some pressure to the back two fingers. Loose grip will add the spin back in for sure though. Also curling in can help bring it back. Also winning the arm wrestle brings some as well. Lots of ways to add spin apparently 😂
@@OverthrowDiscGolf well that’s the thing. I focus on all of those things, so it’s strange when spin drops so much, just by getting into deep pocket. To ask you why was a stupid question since you can’t see my form, but it is normal was more what I meant 😂 have you seen this in other people as well?
I’m sure there are people out there who can perfectly explain brace physics. I’m not one of them. I know a couple of things though. The brace doesn’t have to do with rotation. It has to do with stopping your forward momentum and adding weight into your front foot that you wouldn’t otherwise have with a standstill. For some reason, the moment all that weight goes into that front foot, when you throw as hard as you can, you just get more power. I don’t pretend to know the details, I just feel the power and speed and I watch the tech disc numbers go up 😂 and then I try to get others to feel that same thing. But one thing I know, is that the brace isn’t a rotational mechanic. I tried bracing as a rotational mechanic and it lead to a hurt knee and it didn’t add any speed.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf My advice to students who want to know the “why do this, and why do that” of the throw is to have them study the physics of the whip. You can understand it at the level of physics if you want to (i.e. conservation of momentum), or just at a simple level. At a simple level, if a heavy thing moves quickly and stops, and it’s connected to a lighter thing, the lighter thing will move faster than the heavy thing. A fishing rod cast is a great example how a short quick movement of a heavy handle can send the bait out 100ft easily. If the handle of the rod keeps moving, the lighter thing never gets a chance to move fast. This is why bracing the body against the throw works - it allows the lighter things connected to it ( torso, shoulder, elbow, forearm, wrist, fingers ) to move fast. Think of the brace as the base of the fishing rod. I think Mikey’s great point about the arm is that most people try to keep accelerating their shoulders way beyond their time - the shoulder/torso acceleration can be aggressive when starting the throw, but needs to slow down as much as possible after about ¼ turn so that the arm, which is the lighter thing, can take over, and keep the whip moving along. That’s the way I understand the throw - each part of the body has it’s “time to shine” - it’s moment of acceleration, but each part has to know when it’s time to slow down to allow the next piece to move fast.
A disc golf summer by sunny fruit. He made it for us a couple years ago when we paid him to write produce a song for us. We have solo rights to using it in videos which is cool :) but it’s his song
You guys have slo mo videos on this channel of some of the farthest throwers in the world not doing this deep pocket thing. How come that's a key coaching point now? And as an edit: Mikey doesn't do the deep pocket type throw when he sends it in the "win the arm wrestle" point.
I wonder if it's more of a stretch goal you need at higher speeds just to avoid ending up with the disc trapped behind you or just over rotating too soon. So maybe at max speeds you aren't going to achieve it, but without trying to you will likely end up even worse.
EXACTLY. The idea is to try your best to get there while doing everything else well. Im going to do a video on some thoughts i had while increasing my speed as well so that people understand that deep pocket is actually part of what it takes to send the hand fast enough to throw far and fast
the idea is that people dont throw by just "sending the body" and somehow rocketing the arm forward by lagging it behind.. That kind of throw just doesnt exist. I wish it did. but it just doesn't. People have to realize that they need to send there elbow and hand as fast as possible to achieve higher speeds
Tip 1 doesn't make sense to me. If your arm goes first you're not using your body to pull the disc it's just throwing with arm. It goes against everything they're teaching out there
Rotation isn’t bad. It’s still important. Just don’t let the driving force of the throw behind rotation. While you rotate you need to try with all your might to beat your shoulders with your hand. That’s the key. Some pros use more or less rotation but what people don’t realize is the amount of arming the disc that’s happening as well. The throwing behind principle is so that you learn what it feels like to throw instead of only rotating. Once you get it down you should add with the shoulders while you arm the disc.
I disagree. Josh has brought a lot of unathletic people success with these form cues. You just need proper guidance and personal coaching to see results. Any you need to be committed.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Im sure proper guidance would yield better results and im most likely fucking up a lot of details. However fundamentaly from my perspective trying to implement these tips(+remaining parts of his new form advice from the longer sessions) for only 6 weeks mind you 2-4 field practise per week 1-2 hours. My main issue as a certified weak person(maxing out 22 pound dumbells and like 90pound bench and losing breath walking a couple of stairs) when i tried replicating it it relies a lot more on athleticism/strenght of the arm then what im used to(relaxed rotational trying to replicate more ezra aderhold style, no right peck deep pocket). Resulting in being more fatigued/strain on the body, which meant longer recovery times and less discgolf for me. For me the plane of winning the armwrestle, deeppocket into serving the pizza puts my arm/elbow to high for me, I become weak/slow(also staying back with the body), granted it did help with control of launching angle. But going through the core of my body and helping with rotation i dont have to rely on my puny arm nearly as much, I can rely on coil and long limbs. However as i said im weak, have terrible legwork/brace so not even going to mention that, but can throw 330 ish consistently with nonearm "quasi ezra" form and about 280-300 after the training with this form after 6 weeks i gave up on it. Would like to throw 400 some day but its probably not in the cards for me.
Because 56,000 people. That’s why Josh. He’s an incredible coach with an incredible brain and he is a student of the game. No one will ever know the grind that man has been on to make sure his coaching is the best it can be. The best I can hope to do is be another translator of those things he’s taught me. That’s why Josh.
Lol, I can get 60-62 with a good amount of effort but always slip to 54-56. I went out after watching this and am consistently 63 on minimal effort within 4 throws. That's crazy. I'd be happy to just sit at 69-70. Thanks for this!! Update: Played a round with a friend and was mashing everything. First tip helped stay behind the disc and the second helped with my overextension. Keeping that tension made it so easy to repeat. 🥲 From: 350-380 To: 420-450
Mikey Here! If you guys would like daily form reviews or are interested in having a daily coach, be sure to check out www.patreon.com/overthrowdiscgolf and sign up for the Daily Form Review $50 tier :) I'll see you on the other side!
I gotta say, as a 34 year old who maxes out at 315'. I've never been more ready to explode every ligament in my arm attempting to try this.
For the love of your alien abductor. Listen to your body and DO NOT HURT URSELF. Go slowly. Do not max power dat boi until you know that your arm can handle that motion. My arm currently protects itself from the arm wrestle by dipping. So I’m starting slow as well
Are we the same person? lol I’m also 34 and 315’ drive
@@TkKid1990 Would be pretty meta for this to be the way I find out I have multiple personality disorder. My wife gonna be so mad when she finds out I'm also some guy who plays drums.
Same here!
@@TkKid1990wait, I’m the same person as well 😆
Physical therapy student here. When you’re “winning the arm wrestle,” your shoulder is flexed around 60-80 degrees and is near end range internal rotation. This tensions the ligaments of the glenohumeral joint capsule, resulting in a “locked” feeling in the shoulder. Basically, the ball of your shoulder is running out of space to move in the socket. If this position feels uncomfortable, by all means, be smart and gradually work into that position, throwing less than max power at first. I would also recommend trying some basic shoulder internal range of motion exercises to work at getting into that position.
Edit: It is also a good idea to perform some variation of resisted shoulder external rotation. Several of the rotator cuff muscles perform this motion and eccentrically control the shoulder in this position. Think of these muscles as rubber bands getting tensioned. Resistance training makes them more durable, decreasing risk of injury.
72 to 82 is NUTS! Good shit to you and the coach!
Thanks Neil! Appreciate all the videos youve done and everything you are currently doing to gather data and test theories!
So satisfying to watch this breakdown. Especially the first one speaks my language. Thanks!
Hands down the best UA-cam out here.
Never got better advice anywhere else.
I just love how this is broken down to three simple steps , three crucial steps to gaining distance. So many UA-camrs trying to make it complicated when it really is three simple steps pretty much. Love this ❤
I meaaaannnnnn. These are three things that helped me for sure. But there is a lot more than these three things people have to work on. And these three things are soooo tough to implement 😂 they have been kicking my butt for the past 2 months
After a Scott Stokely clinic I focused on winning the arm wrestle and not uncoiling before the plant. It got me from being hardstuck at 280ft to getting around 300-315. Then I added not opening my fingers and letting the disc rip out. This got my open field max to 360.
Alien abduction is key to distance, I'm on it 👊 lol, jk. Mikey, you nailed it! You're a natural, my friend. I dig your style.
Just want to say that I love the videos that you and Josh put out. Before I watched your videos, I was throwing about 315-320'. Since then, I've had multiple throws hit around 350' and even 360'. My furthest throw is currently 381'. I still have a long way to go, but I'll definitely be putting this video to use!
5:53 Plant and Throw Disc Golf is born! 😂 Seriously though, so glad to see your rapid performance improvement, and your placement not only at USDGC, but doing so well in the Tech Disc event, too. Keep up the great work Mikey and Josh!
I agree with most replies... most succinct, most informational, most useful video yet.
This is gonna be a classic.
Thank you! Anticipating the throw with hips also is a thing I'm learning to avoid it. Now I'll add to avoid also anticipating the shoulders movement, giving priority to the arm. For the second (b) tip, I think one could speak about mantaining the throwing arm parallel to the ground if the throw is straight (and anyway 90° to the body for hyzers and anhyzers)
Omg that arm wrestling thing was so helpful!
Super cool to see you do so well at USDGC distance comp! These are some great tips and very well explained. Great stuff all around Mikey
Great overview, and good to see Mikey out front. This is motivating. Also, congrats on that bomb!
You did awesome man… a natural for sure. Most definitely will get better
Fantastic Video Fellas. A lot of these topics (especially the elbow dipping prevention) have crossed my mind. I let it slip thinking it was a bad idea because of the stretch it gave in the shoulder muscle.
It scares me too. Go slow at first.
As someone who also has been stuck at that 500 range I can't wait to try these tips out🎉
I like this a lot. Less wordy than Josh. Great job.
Three form changes, here’s seven things to remember. ;) great vid I like it
For me personally on tip 3) the hardest habit to break is not putting the heel down at peak reach back. Rotating from ball of lead foot and planting is the error. Good news is you'll feel what Mikey is talking about when you do it right
I just noticed this for the first time a couple of weeks ago and finally hit over 70 mph once I fixed it
I’ve been wanting to move from 58-60mph to the 65+ range, and I think these tips may be the ticket! I’ll have to make sure to hit the brace, THEN the arm comes in. I also throw the arm too soon.
Nice tips, that are easy to practice. From ball golf I was told to practice a full swing that must only be 2/3 of your normal distance. This forces you to slow down and quite often it is really hard to hit the 2/3 distance as the more relaxed swing has much better timing. The effect for many is that they will shoot just as far with 60% power.
This drill works for disc golf as well - it could be cool to see how you would perform with the Techdisc on this drill
That reminds me of why I have no speed control when out of the course. I try to throw 60% to power down. And disc still go far 😂
When I first saw Overthrow I thought man I'd like to learn how to throw that far. Finally got to the same point and now this guy is throwing 82 when I finally get to 72? Time to catch up again
Nice job Mikey! You do just fine in front of the camera.Congrats on top five at the USDGC DC! ( or is it a distance showcase?) USDGCDS? 😁Either way well done!
Love this video can’t wait to see more for you
VERY COOL, THANKS JOSH AND MIKEY!
I am 52 and can max throw on flat ground up to 350-360' when practicing... I mostly throw 280-320' during those practice sessions. the reason I mention my age is bc it is VERY difficult to build muscle memory when you get older. So my question is, in what order should I start grinding these 3... I am inclined to start with the first, throwing the arm. TIA!
Re: the arm angle. I really agree with that - I was throwing just recently. Easy throws for me going a good distance, and then when I don't keep that arm angle, it's awkward, difficult, shorter and (in some cases) painful. Takes me back to the old Simon & Eagle video where they say something like, "I'm sure this looks really easy, and it is!" hahahaha when you line the body up right, you can get really good distance without feeling like it's a huge effort.
I should have mentioned originally how awesome it is to see you hit this milestone you were after :) I've followed your form adventures and I'm thrilled to hear (and see) your success. I think you'll make a great coach because you've had to learn everything, so you will know how to instruct because you've had to learn it as an adult!
Great video reinforcing 3 key ideas.
Make sure when you have shoulder tension in the position around the 5:00 minute mark that you don't externally rotate (forearm and hand rotated a couple of degrees up) on the follow through as an exploration working on the angle because you'll dislocate your shoulder and tear your labrum. Follow through like you are pulling super low and rounding.
Great tips, great tips!
You did great on camera Mikey
I think that shoulder muscle is the alien abductor. Yeah, that's it. Great Video. Thank you!!! Congrats on the 600+ foot throws..
Lovely tips, thanks! ❤
I have the exact same issues you have and had. I'm currently stuck around 72 MPH as well. Let me try these over the next month and see if I can speed it up. I have been loving the arm wrestle cue.
arm wrestle cue is insane. Ive got a lot of high level cues for speed if you are stuck at 72. A lot of throwing faster is mental. Sounds weird, but if you are interested in the mental aspect to throwing faster sign up for the daily form review tiers and i can look at form and we can chat about the mental side of things.
Loved it, thank you!
Super helpful!
Yea dude. This!!!
What disc are max distance throwers typically using? What does the shape of the flight path look like. We always see the mechanics, which is the most important part but it’s also important to know what the flight path of the disc typically looks like when people maximize their distance.
Ok, first off, you nailed being in front of the camera. You're always a bit awkward anyways, so that's just it being what it is ;) I will implement all these tips and grind. I am looking for speed, because I think this is what is currently keeping me plateaued at distance. Plus I am nearly 40 by now so I need to step things up to get to 500 in my lifetime :D
I’m stuck around 62 mph. However my plan is to do 1. Plant closed/shorter stride 2. Rotate on heel to release energy 3. and then full plant/full coil. Off arm should fix itself as I fix the heel rotation
Nice tips!
I figured out this one early spring this year to really pull with the hand before rotation. But practise takes time, still when speeding up with feet, my hand is too slow and I rotate early losing power. The Full coil is more like you should not full coil before full plant. I'm practicing to start coiling when my toes hit the ground and be fully coiled when heel hits the ground. Still working on it though :D ... great vid. I must get into winning the arm wrestle in the winter, found a new muscle it seems :D.
Sounds to me like you are trying to coil too fast. I’ve found that having a slow and loose feeling coil is the best coil. And it starts during the last step, not when the toe touches. That would be too late to be loose and controlled
Feels like Proctor would be a good point of reference for winning the arm wrestle, as he does tip 2 in his swing, no? Anyways, something to try out today!
But those shorts! Amiright!? ;) Love you, Mikey! Thanks for this! Awesome stuff! Alien abduction is certainly it!!
Bunkyyyyy!
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Dude, you did SO good in front of the camera! You're gonna be an awesome coach.
Grinding.
"Sending the arm" definitely feels faster also feels super uncontrollable as of my first time sending it yesterday.
I’ve found more accuracy with my form changes but harder to control speed. Gap hitting at max speed is insanely good now. Powering down for an approach? Not so hot lol. I’ll have Josh coach me through powered down accuracy
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I'm in low 60s right now, 370 consistently, hitting gaps hasn't been a concern. My priority has been more distance.
I wonder if the reason you struggled with tip 2 is the same reason you feel a stretch when you do it right: you naturally have less mobility in that direction. Ive never struggled with keeping the arm up, and I only feel a stretch if I internally rotate super deep
How are you not on the pro tour yet?! Sheesh
I may try this year... We will see. I definitely want to play tournaments now! Will see where that leads
@@OverthrowDiscGolf You haven't played in a tournament yet? I'd definitely do that when you can because it's way different in some ways. Just don't sandbag and start down with us in MA4 😜
I am currently trying to throw 300 feet. So 600 feet seems a bit excessive. In fact, I think I never would need to throw over 350. But the struggle is real! It has not been easy... 🙄
Its so funny I feel like over throw is always posting the stuff I'm self identifying at the same time. I guess
I'm manifesting.
@ 2:15 Your shoulders did indeed go and rotated 😮
Yup. Rotation is still apart of the full throw. The throwing behind drill teaches you the feeling of what is happening while rotating. But I’m not rotating as fast as possible. Just enough to let my arm get into a more powerful throwing position. Video clarifying that is already on our channel but maybe I do a follow up
Amazing video as always! I have a question - How many miles per hour can a run-up add to my throw speed?
Honestly I have bad experiences with big run ups. If you do have a big runup I’d suggest really getting your leg out in front of you to successfully resist all those ground forces. Timing on big runups is INSANELY DIFFICULT. Much easier to learn with a more mild runup. Doesn’t take much to make a difference
@@OverthrowDiscGolf I usually use a small run-up, and it only adds a bit more speed to my throws compared to when I throw from a standstill. I tested with a techdisc and it shows only 5 mph difference :(
Since a lot of this doesn't add up to regular form, I was very surprised to see zero evidence presented here. Not a single throw showing this alleged speed or distance, let alone throws with the tech disc which would have definitively shown the demonstrable results of the form change.
One less person for me to worry about beating in next years distance competition ;) I’m just here to help. You can choose to criticize, or you can choose to get better. ❤️
Hi Mikey, these are really good tips but also don’t tell me what to do fist emoji
This is so strange to me. As someone who can scrape 70 sometimes, i already do all of these, theyve all been things i worked hard on. I think my problem must be more balance/lower body/posture related. I feel like im in a weird position in my form journey where most people learned in your order, and i learned this upper body stuff first.
For someone like you I’ve got some good brain hacks to throw harder. So much of increasing my speed was a mental thing. Tech Disc is really what made the biggest difference to finding speed. I found that I can have pretty bad form and still throw fast. Pop on the daily form reviews tier and I can walk you through some speed training stuff if you like where your form is at. All good in not though. I’ll have videos coming out explaining it all soon
@OverthrowDiscGolf Interesting, for me, if my form isn't on then I'm throwing maybe 5-7 mph slower than my regular peak. I think I will hop on that tier (next month, away from home right now) and see what you have to say. Recently I feel like I figured out that I have my weight too far over my toes and I need to (what feels like to me) be leaning back as I do the x-step and plant. It made it a bit easier to hit my higher speeds consistently but didn't immediately add anything.
Also for what it's worth I know I have a lot of lower body power available to add because I can jump putt 200 feet and on techdisc my jump putt is faster than some people's throws 😅. Still, I can't break 500 backhand, even if techdisc thinks my 69 mph throws could do it, I haven't really done it with an actual throw.
"Sending the arm" in my case, seems less powerful and throws timing way off.
When i get into the deep pocket, I increase speed by 3-4 mph and it feels more effortless as you say, but I lose 100-150 rpm of spin. Do you have any idea why?
Keep a loose grip but also add some pressure to the back two fingers. Loose grip will add the spin back in for sure though. Also curling in can help bring it back. Also winning the arm wrestle brings some as well. Lots of ways to add spin apparently 😂
@@OverthrowDiscGolf well that’s the thing. I focus on all of those things, so it’s strange when spin drops so much, just by getting into deep pocket. To ask you why was a stupid question since you can’t see my form, but it is normal was more what I meant 😂 have you seen this in other people as well?
If rotating has nothing to do with it then what is the point of a run-up? You should be able to get the same results from a stand still?
I’m sure there are people out there who can perfectly explain brace physics. I’m not one of them. I know a couple of things though. The brace doesn’t have to do with rotation. It has to do with stopping your forward momentum and adding weight into your front foot that you wouldn’t otherwise have with a standstill. For some reason, the moment all that weight goes into that front foot, when you throw as hard as you can, you just get more power. I don’t pretend to know the details, I just feel the power and speed and I watch the tech disc numbers go up 😂 and then I try to get others to feel that same thing. But one thing I know, is that the brace isn’t a rotational mechanic. I tried bracing as a rotational mechanic and it lead to a hurt knee and it didn’t add any speed.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf My advice to students who want to know the “why do this, and why do that” of the throw is to have them study the physics of the whip. You can understand it at the level of physics if you want to (i.e. conservation of momentum), or just at a simple level. At a simple level, if a heavy thing moves quickly and stops, and it’s connected to a lighter thing, the lighter thing will move faster than the heavy thing. A fishing rod cast is a great example how a short quick movement of a heavy handle can send the bait out 100ft easily. If the handle of the rod keeps moving, the lighter thing never gets a chance to move fast. This is why bracing the body against the throw works - it allows the lighter things connected to it ( torso, shoulder, elbow, forearm, wrist, fingers ) to move fast. Think of the brace as the base of the fishing rod.
I think Mikey’s great point about the arm is that most people try to keep accelerating their shoulders way beyond their time - the shoulder/torso acceleration can be aggressive when starting the throw, but needs to slow down as much as possible after about ¼ turn so that the arm, which is the lighter thing, can take over, and keep the whip moving along. That’s the way I understand the throw - each part of the body has it’s “time to shine” - it’s moment of acceleration, but each part has to know when it’s time to slow down to allow the next piece to move fast.
Does this mean “lag” is dead as a thing to strive for?!
Yes! 🪦
I feel like it wasn’t that long ago that you were trying to break 500’… 🤯
It really wasn’t. And I have a hard time believing it as well.
I wonder what it's like to get backhanded across the face at 80+ mph.
Very badddd. Very very bad.
Youre using grinder with your students?
Bruh. Dats Onform Bruh
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Dont misgender me, Im go by "troll" and "@#$% sucker" okay?
What is the outro song that you use?
A disc golf summer by sunny fruit. He made it for us a couple years ago when we paid him to write produce a song for us. We have solo rights to using it in videos which is cool :) but it’s his song
Step #0, grow 6" taller and somehow go from a -3" to a +3” ape index
My ape index is nothing special. My legs are really long though.
Tl:dr?
Tl:dr
He used pixie dust 🧚
Easy to discuss, very hard to change ingrained muscle memory though!
Im fighting every day to make these changes currently lol. Good luck out there!
second!
You guys have slo mo videos on this channel of some of the farthest throwers in the world not doing this deep pocket thing. How come that's a key coaching point now? And as an edit: Mikey doesn't do the deep pocket type throw when he sends it in the "win the arm wrestle" point.
I wonder if it's more of a stretch goal you need at higher speeds just to avoid ending up with the disc trapped behind you or just over rotating too soon. So maybe at max speeds you aren't going to achieve it, but without trying to you will likely end up even worse.
EXACTLY. The idea is to try your best to get there while doing everything else well. Im going to do a video on some thoughts i had while increasing my speed as well so that people understand that deep pocket is actually part of what it takes to send the hand fast enough to throw far and fast
the idea is that people dont throw by just "sending the body" and somehow rocketing the arm forward by lagging it behind.. That kind of throw just doesnt exist. I wish it did. but it just doesn't. People have to realize that they need to send there elbow and hand as fast as possible to achieve higher speeds
first
Tip 1 doesn't make sense to me. If your arm goes first you're not using your body to pull the disc it's just throwing with arm. It goes against everything they're teaching out there
Rotation isn’t bad. It’s still important. Just don’t let the driving force of the throw behind rotation. While you rotate you need to try with all your might to beat your shoulders with your hand. That’s the key. Some pros use more or less rotation but what people don’t realize is the amount of arming the disc that’s happening as well. The throwing behind principle is so that you learn what it feels like to throw instead of only rotating. Once you get it down you should add with the shoulders while you arm the disc.
"Technique" is the word, you "LITERAL" millennial
😂 words are struggle
I don't think this form variation is beneficial for unathletic/weak people.
I disagree. Josh has brought a lot of unathletic people success with these form cues. You just need proper guidance and personal coaching to see results. Any you need to be committed.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Im sure proper guidance would yield better results and im most likely fucking up a lot of details. However fundamentaly from my perspective trying to implement these tips(+remaining parts of his new form advice from the longer sessions) for only 6 weeks mind you 2-4 field practise per week 1-2 hours.
My main issue as a certified weak person(maxing out 22 pound dumbells and like 90pound bench and losing breath walking a couple of stairs) when i tried replicating it it relies a lot more on athleticism/strenght of the arm then what im used to(relaxed rotational trying to replicate more ezra aderhold style, no right peck deep pocket). Resulting in being more fatigued/strain on the body, which meant longer recovery times and less discgolf for me.
For me the plane of winning the armwrestle, deeppocket into serving the pizza puts my arm/elbow to high for me, I become weak/slow(also staying back with the body), granted it did help with control of launching angle. But going through the core of my body and helping with rotation i dont have to rely on my puny arm nearly as much, I can rely on coil and long limbs.
However as i said im weak, have terrible legwork/brace so not even going to mention that, but can throw 330 ish consistently with nonearm "quasi ezra" form and about 280-300 after the training with this form after 6 weeks i gave up on it. Would like to throw 400 some day but its probably not in the cards for me.
Again. Why is Josh?
Because 56,000 people. That’s why Josh. He’s an incredible coach with an incredible brain and he is a student of the game. No one will ever know the grind that man has been on to make sure his coaching is the best it can be. The best I can hope to do is be another translator of those things he’s taught me. That’s why Josh.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf FINE.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Just saying his apostle, Saint Mikey, really communicates his teachings ;)
Lol, I can get 60-62 with a good amount of effort but always slip to 54-56. I went out after watching this and am consistently 63 on minimal effort within 4 throws. That's crazy. I'd be happy to just sit at 69-70. Thanks for this!!
Update: Played a round with a friend and was mashing everything. First tip helped stay behind the disc and the second helped with my overextension. Keeping that tension made it so easy to repeat. 🥲
From: 350-380
To: 420-450