IMPROVED 2025 UK Carrier Group vs 2025 Chinese Carrier Group (Naval Battle 72b) | DCS
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
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0:00 Overview
1:15 Technology Update
3:15 Battle Details
10:53 Predictions
11:58 FIGHT!
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#DCSQuestioned #GRNavalBattle #DCSNavalBattle #UK #China #Navy #AircraftCarrier #QueenElizabeth #Type003 #GR #DCSWorld #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military - Ігри
During Operation Desert Storm, a F-16 Viper (Callsign Stroke 3) was fired upon by 6 Iraqi SAM sites during a air raid gone wrong, and dodged the missiles using only maneuvering since his flare dispenser had a malfunction he was unaware of. Could you guys try to replicate what happened and see if you could also beat multiple missile launches in a row without the use of flares?
Chaff not flares but yeah this would be cool to see
This was know as "strike package Q": ua-cam.com/video/6EWAjZW6ncw/v-deo.html
By 2025 china will equip type 003 and 004 with j35 and large number of type 005 destroyer will be enlisted. I know it's a game and it is for the entertainment but maybe it will be more interesting to see fifth gen fighter air to air fighting instead of f35 shooting down all the j15 lol , but someone need to add the j35 or J20 mode in the DCS to simulate that situation.
@@wsh8447 FC-31 not J35
@@jonomurphy1117 j 35 is here, fc31 is a Prototype and became history
The best part about this channel which really got me so interested was the amount of engagement with the audience and the fact they take the people’s advice to improve the channel. Keep up the great work!
thx
@@grimreapers no thank you
@@flashgordon6670 there was a comma in his heart, if not his fingers
Truly, the free sharing of information is the best part of the internet - and it reflects one of the best instincts of the human race: generosity. Thank you @Grim Reapers for being part of the best of the best.
I found this channel about a month or two ago, and I can't get enough. I don't play the realistic military sims, but wow are they fun to watch! Thanks Cap'n!
It's great isn't it?
It's a great channel.
amazing displays of knowledge and skills every episode. The banter is next level the team are all brilliant. Yess.... Even you Capt. Damp. ❤️
You've been served them because of their role in prop. You're being lied to successfully. Congratulations on being a gullible idiot.
Keep them long, if people want them shorter, they can simply fast forward. I love your campaigns!
Or watch someone else who makes spectacularly worse but shorter videos.
(Yeah, no)
Keep it up, Cap. GR are the best in the biz!
I love that these videos are super long! They're alot more entertaining than the 10min videos
Seems like deconfliction is the next piece of the puzzle to tackle; the LRASMs from the Black Sea attack video and the Meteors in this one would be much more effective if missiles spread more evenly between targets.
It’s also not necessary to fire at max range; pK would go way up if you programmed the stealths to fire closer in (as I bet they would consider doing as it’s still outside detection range).
Yeah, because of how the AI operates it seems like the faster launch rate of the F-35s is actually a disadvantage since they just go up and waste most of their loadout. Once the F-35s have dumped their entire loadout there's still like half of the enemy force left. I imagine you would see a better result by just slowing down the launch rate of the F-35s.
@@williamhumber5890 I just got the basic DCS, and so far I can't even figure out how to place planes on the carrier in the first place. But following this thread in case carrier tips pop up.
Agreed but sadly I think that will always be out of our scope of skills.
Full length videos are the way to go. I love seeing the entire battle play out.
YES! Was hoping you'd do this!
Also, going to the quote you put on at 2:58, this reflects what I'd said on a previous video of yours (don't blame you for not reading everything - you guys are awesome and the amount you do read is reflected in your sims (which are more entertaining than most TV shows for me).
The PL15 may well have a similar range to the Meteor (Most trusted sources I've read say it's *slightly* less - talking like 10Km depending on the source), but where the Meteor is still leaps ahead (legit a generation or a gen and a half) is in the No-Escape Zone (NEZ) which is due to the Ramjet being included - impacting the Kill Probability (PK) quite significantly.
Effectively what this means is that the top-speed achieved by the PL-15 will occur at a similar time to the Meteor, but from that point it will slowly drop off, meaning that at 110-120KM, the PL-15 will be travelling real slow and likely only have a decent PK against slow-moving, large, immobile targets.
Meanwhile, the Meteor will travel at between Mach 4 and Mach 5 ish from the moment it reaches top speed, pretty much all the way to the target - even if that target is 110-120KM (although exact range is obviously restricted information so who knows - but this is the theory). This, as I'm sure you're aware (and sorry if this is patronising - I struggle with that sometimes but try hard not to be) results in an almost 90% PK even at extreme ranges.
No idea if you can model this, but it would seriously reflect the situation more and will make the F-35 armed with Meteor that much more deadly.
In terms of who won - the UK won. IRL, those F-35s would be rearmed and sent back up again, the Meteor missiles would have been launched with greater efficacy, and they would be more deadly as described above.
Yup all noted. Techinically this difference is modellable in game BUT I haven't figured out yet how to do it.
@@grimreapers I'm sure you guys will figure it out at some point but I'm just grateful for the work you do and the entertainment you put out. Thanks so much for making all of these. Love watching them!
Best thing you said that you deliberately make full videos not snappy clickbait videos.
Love to see the whole thing, along with the explanation of where it's not 100% simulated.
Many battles change over time owing to the AI, the techonlogy or the GR pilots, and it's great to see it develop.
WOW!!!
That was brilliant. I've never watched one of these battle simulations before, but I'll be watching plenty more from now on.
Great morning/afternoon Cap and Crew, I really do hope your all doing fantastic. Great video and battle. Please 🙏 keep up all the great work.
Can’t thank you enough, Cap & Grim Reapers, for all of your content! I look forward to the daily video drop as it really helps take my head out of life’s stresses. Thank you
Thanks for all great videos!
Hooray for full videos! Thanks Cap
Love watching the Reapers because the videos are so entertaining but I also learn a lot. I love the amount of research you put into this Cap!
The PL 15s are good missiles on the surface of things looking at the range and other factors.
However at the same time many experts argue that due to its size and also estimated weight, it would be somewhat useless against fighter sized aircraft
Many experts believe it's to counter the US support units like AWACs and refuellers, with that being the thing it's good at
Against fighters it likely won't be the best due to obviously a big manoeuverability gap between fighters and the support units, and due to this the PL 15 may actually not be as good as it seems
Why does US try to develop a similar Aim-260? PL15 has the range advantage, making the opponent to defense and losing its position. Compared to a 25 tons fighter, it is light weight, agile and fast. It has no human physical limitations, so maneuverability is much better than a fighter. Your words does not make any sense.
@@JW-bx4su AIM-260 is a BVR missile that’s what it’s for they are making a compact Aim-120 that can double capacity an F-35 or F-22 could hold internally. PL-15 is very easy to dodge irl
@@Mystical922 aim-260 is a compact aim-120? Bro, do your homework first. Aim 260 will be for sure larger than aim 120, if not much larger, it is long range bvr, not for double capacity.
@@JW-bx4su that’s not what i said there is a separate project for that didn’t word it properly. Yes AIM-260 isn’t that it’s a BVR missile
@@JW-bx4su Many experts believe that the PL 15 is a very heavy and long missile, reducing its manoeuvrability largely and making it effectively mainly against larger aircraft. Against fighters it's going to be very easy to dodge and outmanoeuvre.
In this scenario I would go with all stealth configuration. With 40 planes that gives you 160 missiles to take out 60 targets, and your own losses would be negligible, assuming the stealth works as advertised.
The losses were negligible with a 1:1 ratio, thanks to the data-link. The problem was lack of missiles.
Cap, you know what this means... Do it again!
We've got to move onto the 2025 re-fitted Russian fleet guys.
@@grimreapers Is that 2025 refitted Russian fleet vs Royal Navy fleet? I'd love to see that!
About team balance...
If you're going into a fair fight you're using bad tactics.
The aggressor should be using a force which has a decided advantage of some sort.
The what if scenarios are still a lot of fun to watch. 👍
Yeah most basic thing of warfare is don't fight a battle you're just going to lose. I think the Chinese would try to bait the UK into their land-based and H-6 based anti-ship range, while the UK would use their stealth to go for the Chinese AWACS first and their SSNs to torpedo their most valuable ships. But these videos are still good fun, and more realistic tactics like that seem impossible in DCS and need an impossible number of human players too.
Full Tactical Videos are best ! LOVE them :) thanks
Who ever said make your videos ten mins long can stub their toe on their coffee table lol I love the long battles!
Thanks for the battle Cap. It appears the Meteor had a much higher miss rate than normal. Just based on the missiles I tracked in.
Literally my thought exactly... How did they miss so much with such a decent missile? I mean I don't know the damn thing about this but I do know that the British do not invest in shitty equipment.. They are pretty similar to The United States just on a micro level.. Half to think it's a better missile than what we just saw.
@@michaelmurray9232 It's a simulation remember and missile hits often don't compare with real life. Both the US and UK air-to-air missiles are superior to anyone else's but the British Meteor is regarded by most military experts as the better missile. The AIM-120D (US) has an official range of 160km, and the Meteor has an official range of 100+ km, but BVR missiles (beyond-visual-range) are almost never used out to the edge of their performance envelope, as that makes them too easy to avoid. The Meteor is fast, Mach 5 compared to the AIM-120's Mach 4. The Meteor is highly maneuverable and has a “no-escape-zone,” or region in which the attacked aircraft must rely on manoeuvring to defeat the missile instead of running the missile out of fuel, three times that of the AIM-120. These figures likely understate the performance envelope of the Meteor. Given comparable aircraft, the F-35 or similar armed with the Meteor would have a significant, potentially decisive advantage.
Just a thought .. if you could halve the F35 launch speed from the carrier you’d get more kills per fighter … with the current launch speed 4 or 5 missiles are going for the same target … I might be missing something of course
I agree with this. So many missiles are wasted. If the missiles were more effective you could send some F35s out with anti-ship no?
It would be interesting to replay this with the F-35 AI launch slowed down to 1/2 as fast. It would help reduce the amount of wasted shots.
Love the longer videos, don’t shorten them!
Thank you for keeping your videos at full length! Don't listen to those who want abridged versions.
It's not that we think Chinese tech is garbage. We're just not falling into the same trap that "experts" did with Russia prior to their current conflict. China, like Russia, has a long-standing habit of touting exaggerated abilities, when it comes to military ability. The US, has a long-standing habit of understating capabilities and attempting to keep real characteristics secret. We're not great at that, but that's not the point. When taking public figures without a realistic handicap, it's not so realistic. History has shown that whatever china says, you can probably deduct 20% for actual capability.
Western they/them navies are no match for the chad PLAN. /s
China never overestimate their capabilities like Russia does.
Yet their the pentagon admits their ai technology is more advanced than the US and Marines use Chinese drone's on recon they still use Russian chopper's in Iraq and Afghanistan better armor more powerful engine. They build thing's to get the job done 🤷
As the great president Roosevelt said speak softly but carry a big stick
@@Anakin_Sandy_High_Ground even with the woke bs the us navy is still unmatched
Would have been interesting to see what the new loadouts of Wildcats with the two new anti ship missiles could have achieved if anything
I've watched a few of this show. This is the 1st time I've seen them in a few hours of playing. I've learned now how important rockets are in different missions and how many different missiles there are. Since the horrible war has been going.. am finding out more about rockets and missiles there are. From sea, air and ground. Do they play against other teams? keep it long. Real time . Good show. 👍😊
4:50 lol hell yeah! Cap you took my advice!😅✌
Yes this seems to keep most people happy lol :)
@@grimreapers that's what I was goin for😁✌
Love the full videos Cap. Just cant capture full wargames or missions with 10 minute videos. Cheers, keep it up
Love the full videos.
keep the long vids Cap! I can't get enough long form full tactical videos. I watch more WarGames vids than TV! trying to learn DCS and these are invaluable for study!
This is a classic case of British Longbowmen vs Chinese Chu ko Nu
43:37 “That’s my boy!”
-crashes-
No, my boy!
Might be best to set up the F35s in whatever way seems to do best. After all, the crew IRL will know the best doctrine through simulations.
Obviously the British would not just blindly fire missiles without communicating with each other. Irl the brits would win easy.
But once other countries catch up with stealth tech, who knows.
Drone ships with rappiers (or whatever British anti air missile) leading in front of the British fleet?
I think AI wasnt great, in real life I'm sure the British wouldn't be lobbing Meteors as soon as they took off, instead they'd use their stealth to get somewhat closer ( not too close to where they're detected) to get more effective shots in.
Aswell as that if the battle had took place more near to land for both sides so the AI would be able to rearm, I think the British would've done better
TY FOR FIXING THE RTB THING when they ran out of missiles and just stayed there it was driving me nuts
As someone who watch your blackbird/Vulcan falklands bombing video from start to finish, keep the videos as they are, if it’s a epic or a short, so be it
Simba fan club approves our king of the jungle being "On a Boat" Thank you for all the quips and keeping cap less serious! Love Grim Reapers and the team!
Hello GR's. I was an AO (Aviation Ordinanceman) back in the 80's. We were just getting F/A 18's on the flight deck at that time. I don't think it would be anywhere close to an hour for the first 20 or so planes to land and rearm. We could send up a rack of snake eyes (6) every 6 minutes and we would build the whole time the planes were out. And we were only one of the magazines. I think, if you found out how long it takes to fuel a plane, that would be your turn around time. Granted, things are very different today and there are still DCS issues, but I have heard you request naval advice before, so that's what I've got. Keep up the wonderfully long missions. How about a NATO attack on the Russian front lines. (Just in case they use a nuke.)
Literally the best part of the videos "Hello Valued Viewers!" feels like a warm hug
You guys always fire the missiles at or near their max range and then they run out of legs or brains right at the end and you get a hit rate of less than 50%. I would think that with the advantage of stealth, you should get a little closer before you launch so you can give your missile a cushion just in case the flight parameters don't let it perform at max range. What am I missing?
Same thoughts here. I feel like I have to be missing something because it seems so obvious
Yeah, agreed. The Meteor -would-actually be perfectly effective at extreme range if it had its IRL engagement profile, but that doesn't seem to be possible in DCS modding.
(We'll see how Heatblur handles this when their Typhoon mod comes out.)
Cap, love the long format videos! Never go to the dark side click bait 10 minute fish brain attention span videos.
Keep up the great work. I look forward to every video you upload!
rgr
In this situation, missiles like the meteor turn the f35 into little more than a stealthy boost phase.
It will be so cool when they use stealthy drones to deploy them instead of manned aircraft. If you strip the pilot supporting equipment, you could fit more missiles and/or have a smaller airframe.
Really you do know you need to detect it before you fire the missile?
Thanks Cap & Crew! I'll throw my opinion in favor of the longer videos. I like them because I can gather some good ACM and techniques. Getting cold in Colorado, so it's time to order a Grim Reapers hoodie.
I like the longer 60 to 120 minutes episodes it is llke watching a show or a movie keep up the good work!
I for one enjoy the long videos!
in 60 minutes you have 20 35's back in the air headed at the chinese fleet reloaded with anti ship.
Nice
I love the carrier battles cap! Full length videos are the best! One of these days can you redo the US versus Russia carrier group?!
Recording that one Wed :)
@@grimreapers you’re awesome cap!!!!
Honestly for the stealth configurations I’d have them hold off a bit with firing, increase that PK and help ensure the batteries aren’t dying in flight.
Fun stuff
Fun video.
American here; sorry for all the bozos giving y'all grief for using the PL-15, unfortunately a lot of people just don't have the ability to take in information that conflicts with their incredibly vague and narrow view of the world. The AIM-260 will probably even the odds but until then, we better put all that expensive RAM coating to good use. Or until they somehow make the F-15 EX compatible with the Meteor which... holy shit that'd be scary
I would love to participate in a GR fantasy-football kind of thing... brackets of dogfights with all the regulars (Sock, Violet, Matrix, etc) and all the newbies (Cannonball!) That would be fun.
Imagine being a Chinese pilot going up against stealths! You have no idea where they are, just that they are there and firing missiles at you that could hit you at any moment and you'll have little to no warning!
the Chinese have drones that appear to have meter band VHF radars on their sides... there is a very good chance they are anti-stealth capable. for starters VHF is about 500x more effective at detecting these aircraft which are optimized for X-band stealth & small enough they can't be stealthy to VHF.
I'd love to know why nobody has created a disposable/retractable pylon system. With the proclivity and advantages of stealth technology the ability to fire off an array of long range missiles and then convert the aircraft back to a stealth configuration to guide missiles/reattack seems like it would be a massively powerful technology
A decent amount of bandits were sent to Meteorville tonight.
But the Meteor is a far more capable monster than shown in this video. The missile can change its speed midflight and it can reacquire a target after an initial miss.
Fantastic air combat simulation!
Chinese flankers have thrust vectoring? And if they have, what models?
I heard somewhere that the J-20B will have thrust vectoring
The only Chinese fighter with TVC if J-20B, but I am pretty sure she is not in service yet.
The meteor is such a dominant weapon. I'm entirely convinced it's the best air to air missile of our day. Really the meteor breaks up into three separate missiles.
Yes, Cap, full videos please!!
Unfortunately they kinda end up wasting the stealth configuredd F35s by launching all their meteors at max range. If they waited even just till they were 25- 50 miles closer they'd still be out of detection range but the missiles would have far better firing parameters, retain more energy prior to going terminal/final approach, giving a higher kill probability, and making kinematic dodges more unlikely.
I enjoy the full length videos guys keep up the great work!
One point the UK F-35B (RAF/FAA) do not use internal gun or gun pod so its really missile only for all use cases including close-range air-to-air.
Yep deconfliction. It looks like with the longer range engagements the second group of f35s come into ranger while the first groups missiles are still in the air. They spot the same set of targets and launch on them. When the first meteors shots hit, it leaves the second groups missiles without target and they go dumb. A goodly portion of shots get wasted. A d they are finite. It didn't happen with 120 Cs as the flight time was a lot less thus the targets dropped off quicker.
PLEASE KEEP DOING LONG VIDEOS!
yayy, THE RETURN OF THE METEOR on GR
how about an improved Europe + America vs Russia + China (Possibly + India?)
I can somewhat understand the politics thing from the previous one, tho I don’t understand it when before that a budget increase for the Mod was announced from 2.2 to 3%. maybe in future you can do a battle based off the thatcher admin’s type of military budget percentage, like what would the RN have if it was 8% like during her time as pm? That’d be interesting
If the ships don’t fire on each other, is it even a naval battle? I always love that part at the end of these.
It's usually a good idea to overestimate your enemy, but also not to show all your own cards. It's a balance experts have to maintain.
UK carrier group also has a hunter killer sub.
The map overview at 48:23 sort of looks like a stylized Flanker. heh
I would think that there would be several Astute Class submarines in the area deployed ion advance of any potential conflict. I wonder how this would change the dynamics. Great work, thank you.
considering there are only 5 astute in service "several" wont make it. by 25 they would be lcky to add one. In addition China will have FC31 by 2025 and they would bring a 2-1 minimum advantage in subs rater they were 093a/b or 095a which they will have in service by 25. The UK has 30 f35 and will get another 18 delivered by 2025 with its service rates 40 would be really pushing it. Likely they could muster 30 or 32 max at any given time.. but it is just a game.
would be nice if you could add J-35, the new Chinese naval fighter jet to the scenario, probably going into service in 2025
agree but no public data?
@@grimreapers maybe refer to FC31 the export version. it's said that they have similarity
I love seeing the Murder Lightings working correctly this time.
The RN can get an f-35 re-fuel, rearmed and launched in under 15 minutes, but only in emergency situation and it doesn't leave enough to do a proper check on the air frame
It'd be more useful, and I know there's server limitations, if you started them 500 miles apart and there had to be reloading, no-man's-land fighting, etc. This is like a shotguns-only fight across the table when the lights are turned out.
I am pretty sure what Doctrine would say to do in this case, would be they would Mad Dog off their missiles and then data link other missiles off of the ones ahead
The U.K. Ministry of Defense has confirmed that its F-35B stealth fighters will be armed with Meteor air-to-air missiles and SPEAR 3 precision-guided standoff munitions by the “end of the decade.” The new weapons promise to bring a major leap in capability for the F-35B, especially when combined with the enhancements that the Block 4 upgrade will provide, especially for the aircraft’s radar, which will make the Meteor even more formidable.
if people don't have time to watch a full video then watch it in parts or skip it to the best parts otherwise im sure most of us like the full action and intro from the Grim Reapers 😃
"the opposite of chivalry" didn't a french king utter similar words after the battle of Crecy???
Hi guys.
Do yall have/would it be possible for you to make a video simulating a carrier air wing attacking a large destroyer squadron?
In Carrier v Carrier battles, considering their escorts aren't numerous, whoever wins the air engagement tends to overwhelm the enemy with anti-ship missiles.
How would it look like if the strike was against a desron? Would the entire air wing come loaded with anti-ship missiles? Can you even do SEAD targeting radars in the ships?
That would be cool I think
Sure
In the future maybe the human stealth F-35's should push-in more on that initial wave to increase the probability of kill instead of firing at max range since you know they can't see you until 25ish miles. Maybe fire at 50-60 miles and then get tf outta there?
A note on the opening, I wish I would have caught the original video when it aired. When i stopped working at lockheed in 2021 the british F-35's on the line (each was marked by the country flag and the airframe number for that country) exceeded 40 iirc. im an open book for unclass info guys! ask away!
OK---. Shame is that Lockheed with BEA have come up with Stealth Pylon Missile Pods and Drop tanks for the F-35 and F-22s that do not increase RCS of the Fighters. Though they still add DRAG. Each Missile pod can carry 2 to 4 missiles internally. With 4 pods carrying 8 to16 additional missiles under the wings or a 3,000lbs Stealth fuel tank replacing one of the pods under each wing and the center line adding range over a clean fighter... While the pods can be dropped reducing drag, they are a bit expensive. One advantage is that the Pods can be attached fully loaded with missiles cutting the time it takes to get the fighter back into the Air. You should check them out!!!
The Type 23s would be x2 correct, but they are quite good at picketing. However it wouldn't have 2 Arliegh burkes unless a combined fleet. That being said the type 45's would have 4, if a fuill fleet. Plus by the 2025 they would be one type 31. Also you'd have a number of Wildcats firing anti air and anti ship missiles. they have been tested to hold 20 missiles on pylons. the AWAC is an interesting point.
The thing I don't understand with this one was some many Meteors were lobbed at the same target. The data link should have spread it out and hit multiple targets. However, they just lobbed and ran. There was no holding back flying CAP, it's just odd.
ya, and China wouldn't be using 4x52C to guard it carrier, it would be using 2x55 and 2x52D. as for target choice, that the limitation of the game AI, you can't really expect an AI to be good enough to emulate the entire operational staff.
Full videos. There is a fast forward button. It’s your friend
The other thing to say about that older video, is that if a diminished UK CSG entered the threat of Chinese attack, they would probably also be carrying a US marine F35 squadron because NATO as a whole wouldn't countenance the possibility of losing a carrier group just because it wasn't carrying its full capacity of aircraft.
Great content as always but I'm a little curious as to why you opted to set AI to use F-35A's? Britain only owns and uses F-35B variant.
The war games deserve long videos.
I watch them at 1.25x speed.
was wondering if a meteor , say, could have a BROACH warhead fitted for antiship work?
What about a straight up naval fight no planes but helicopters are fine as most ships carry them as I'd like to know how it would look like and maybe one with subs too ???
Question...can the lightnings dump their external pillons after they're empty? That way they can spam long range missiles at a distance and then close at stealth.
What I think would be intimidating would be seeing all the cons of the missiles and hearing the man down calls and not seeing anything on radar. Kind of got “Predator” vibes to it
Excellent flying skills at 37:42
Well done, Birderino! Good show!
Ignore this if you wish, but the Meteor isn’t due for integration with the F-35 until 2027 at the earliest, so AIM 120’s would be the missile dejour for the present.
Mixed load possible for the J-15's? Anti-ship with some Anti-air as well on the same aircraft?
keep it long and tactical it's perfect the way it is
I think there needs to be more work done on the meteor missile. It seems to loose track alot and it seems to be dodged a lot.
agree