Was their argument for making a VA uncomfortable seriously "well other people have done it so why can't I?" Genuinely the dumbest thing I've seen this year its only January.
@@tomasavendanozacarias5205 I swear that sounds like they’re back in elementary school again. I tried to point out that another person did something wrong and think that they’ll avoid getting in trouble that way.
@tomasavendanozacarias5205 someone doing something bad is not an excuse for doing something bad to SOMEONE ELSE,they didn't do anything bad to viv they did it to someone who had nothing to do with it plus viv gets the same kind of harassment from other fans,she's not,not doing anything about it cuz she doesn't care she's doing nothing about it cuz she doesn't known what to do because if she could do something she would have done it since it's happening to her to
As an SA survivor, it's valid to have an opinion on how a show wrote a character who survived SA, but seeing fans behave like this - using SA to cause an internet scandal - is very uncomfortable & comes off as them only caring if it makes them appear like some kind of saviour & not because they actually care about us. I won't pretend the show was perfect, but at the same time it means a lot that we have queer SA characters who aren't used as plot devices, for another character's development or to villainize the LGBTQ+ community. I'm so grateful that characters Like Angel Dust from HH and Charlie from Heartstopper exist! Edit: Just found out that Limus is a survivor too. While their experiences are valid, it's not an excuse to gatekeep trauma or insist it's horrible rep because it doesn't resonate with them. I'll admit my situation was different to Angels & so are my attitudes towards sex, but every survivors experiences are different & all are equally valid. It's no excuse to pit survivors against each other or bring a voice actor into such ridiculous drama (them being a survivor actually makes it worse IMO). To anyone reading this, IDC if you are an SA survivor yourself, NEVER speak over other survivors or invalidate their experiences!!! Edit 2: To those bring it up, no, I'm not comfortable with what happened with Sir Pentious in s1 ep 6 either (or Moxxie in s1 e3). Like I said, the show isn't perfect. You can give the show constructive criticism but don't bash on fans for liking it or speak over fans who relate to characters like Angel Dust.
Limus and others who complained about angel dust being not a accurate SA victim. Oh you are using your victim card to push your own opinion on what is accurate to a SA victim it's not about you it's for others who have a similar situation to angel dust. Just because angel dust SA victim story doesn't aline with yours dose not give you rights to criticize, just because you are a SA victim even if valid. It is denying others who has a similar situation to angel dust. For those who made those who called angel dust is bad SA victim have you asked others like being in a abusive relationship similar to angel dust. That argument of comparing sir pentious rape scene and angel dust SA have people taking things too seriously that sir pentious moment was for a joke, laughs a comedic moment not ment to be taken seriously and angel dust because for character development. It's true. Some people can't even take a joke without being serious. Now a day people take things too seriously. And those who say this can't have a double standard yes it can look at family guy and south park the shows before has been existed. Family guy it's has that episode of Peter thinks that prostate exams was rape then quagmire exist by how many times it's implied and shown that quagmire violate a woman's unconscious body and probably traps them in his basement and it was played off for a laugh. Same with that scene where peter was assaulted by Steam from a pie for fun. Quagmire the embodiment of not consenting. And then south park has practically touch every serious topic there is I made it into a funny parody that scene where cartman just casually show a pile of aborted fetuses. And family guy and south park has done it for years and haven't being canceled. But when hazbin hotel does it you criticize it. And forget family guy and South park exist and done worse. And Vivziepop said that her humor comes from family guy and South park. You people say that hazbin hotel can't have a double standard of this when you clearly are hypocrites. When you grow up with family guy and South park. And some of these people haven't even watched a single episode of a family guy. Have you watched family guy or south park or not. Clearly not by lack of how offensive is family guy or South park If limus watched a quagmire compilation and that quagmire episode about him in abusive relationship they might have a mental breakdown and a 5-hour rant about it on UA-cam. By how much "how to not do" SA in family guy. Have you watched family guy or south park or not. Clearly not by lack of how offensive is family guy or South park and they depict SA wrong videos. Who knew that so many people use the victim card just for being the center of attention. And that under the victim they can be such a self-confidence narcissist. And a dark side of limus coming out to shop how petty they can be.
@@aliciahuang6329Hi! I’m an CSA victim who half and half agrees with Limus’s og video. My opinion is that the show decides to make angel dust an SA victim while also making an SA joke with sir Pentious. My issue is NOT how Angel is portrayed, but more of how Vivzie not only wrote in a serious SA story, but also a “comedic” SA moment.
@PopCatBot I'm an SA victim too, and I agree with the Sir Pentious thing. Using it as a joke made me extremely uncomfortable. Sir Pentious is one of my comfort characters, too, so it made me super sad.
Wakes up and looks at phone: *drama in basically any thing u like for some reason* Good to know humanity hasn't changed..... Whelp, let's ignore it and just go back to enjoying what I like like a normal person
Went to this convention went to the Alex Brightman line chatted with some people there but, then I saw Limus in the line with the piece of paper and it was just a mind blower to see that someone even had the guts to wear something like that to a convention with a multitude of different people. But, the context of their criticism made me think why would you walk around a convention with a mention of a sensitive topic?
I get sex jokes exist in the show but the fandom is so young sometimes. And that's inappropriate in public. Please don't do this! If you're reading this!
Someone on a community post talked about this drama, and a comment said something about how it was just a “silly little picture” Like excuse me?!! I don’t know how some people don’t see how uncomfortable that is!
@ I’m gonna be completely honest. I’m not an SA victim. But I’d still be weirded out if I saw Limus do this in person. It’s like she dedicated a portion of her life to hate Angel’s rep or the show itself. (Sorry if it seems like I’m ranting) I made a reddit post asking if Addict or Poison had better SA rep, and Limus saw it and commented “both are kinda fetishy”. Seeing this now, I’m confused on what she was doing in the Hazbin server if she hates the show?
Because they don’t actually care about what they preach about. They just care about attention for hating something others like. So they’d gladly do this with zero regards to actual people affected
I'm so mad I wasn't looking when Limus went up. I was too busy talking and only got to see them walking away afterwards. I think I heard them say something as they passed by too but I don't exactly remember what TOT Honestly, it was awkward for ME and I wasn't even in their line of sight.
This guy seriously got mad that Viv was uncomfortable with his behavior while simultaneously condemning her for not doing so in a different situation? If she doesn't stand up for her actors, she's the villain, if she does, she's the villain
OK to clarify, Limus uses she/they pronouns. But anyways, yeah this was poor behavior on her part even though I actually agreed with parts of her video.
@bunnyloves6975 Does it even matter if Viv makes a statement? It should go without saying that the time the Val cosplayer was creepy and flirty to (was it the original VA for Angel Dust) Angel Dust' VA, she doesn't approve of it. Was it assault? I thought it was just being creepy.
Especially when it’s an indie adult show that has been getting a lot of praise from critics and fans alike but yes you are entitled to your opinions about it but don’t take it personally because the voice actors have nothing to do with the characters that they are portraying and their characters behavior and characterization
Another reason why the hazbin/helluva hatedom is more toxic than the actual fans. Seriously can people just not like shows anymore, or be critical of them. They had to do some weird stuff like this
Honestly, its not just hazbin hotel and helluva boss anymore, people these days hate everything now, especially on twitter, they are all acting like spoiled brats and don't know how to shut up and be satisfied for once
That’s what I’ve been saying! I’ve always said how the Hazbin-Haters are more toxic than the fans themselves. The haters will make a whole entire fandom just to hate on the show, and they’ll harass anyone who likes the show. They literally will be like "Hazbin fans are cringe and annoying" and then they will proceed to be the ones that are annoying and cringe. I’m not tryna say all Hazbin-Haters are like this. There are some who just hate the show and they don’t harass people who like it. You are allowed to hate a show, but don’t harass the people who like it. And of course, there are also toxic Hazbin Fans. But overall, the haters are much more toxic. (Also, I’ve been literally told to kill myself all because I like it…)
AS a SA survivor, I really hate when people like Limus come in and try to paint all SA surviviors recovery, trauma and etc the same and say 'oh well, your experience isn't real because it isn't what i went through.' Like, excuse me? All SA survivors are valid and have different experiences.
I've disagreed with many of Viv's actions but certainly agreed with how odd Limus acted here. It's odd, I agreed with a lot of points made by Limus including the video she made.
@TheUnmitigatedDawn Not the show it's about the SA representation and like that wasn't just a thumbnail that was an actual scene from episode 4 during the song poison
Honestly the haters at this point hate the show more than us fans love it and having to deal with people who spend so much time hating the show instead of just not watching it is annoying
As someone who watched the video the creator made, I honestly agreed with some points presented. Hazbin hotel is by no means a perfect show and does have some issues. That being said, the horror on my face watching this is something else. To do that at a convention and be a terrible person later about it is horrifying. Viv actually did the mature thing by only criticising their inappropriate actions at the convention and nothing else about their actual opinion. The show is incredible in the way it’s paved indie animation projects and fighting to have your work seen. Issues can be fixed, problems addressed. But doing stuff like this is down right malicious against Viv, and does have intentional damaging wishes behind it.
Yeah, but to be honest, a lot of her point in the criticism was "my experience is different, so Angel and his trauma are poorly written," which is fundamentally wrong.
@@Mari_Say I don’t agree with those statements they made, but I didn’t mind some other criticism they made. It only agreed with so much, and didn’t care much for the rest, since it’s their opinion about some opinion based things, so I personally didn’t care much. Now though, with the fact they are acting quite inappropriate about their opinion, that’s when they’ve definitely lost my agreement in some ideas.
Yea I saw it too and thought there were some good points, but I also remember her saying that Viv has a large child audience and thus has to be wary of what message she’s sending to children; while it’s true a lot of kids watch hazbin hotel, it felt crazy to me that a clearly adult show should have to censor itself for a child audience that it shouldn’t have, I’d give the argument significantly more credit if it was airing for free on UA-cam like Helluva is, but it’s on Amazon behind a paywall, any kid that has access to the show is already being given too much freedom on the internet and is bound to run into much worse stuff, that’s on the parents, not the media creators.
I hated that video OP beforehand for gatekeeping trauma, trauma processing, and recovery as though all victims are the same. Now? They're even more disgusting to be. Angel is a great example of someone who sufferers trauma without losing everything they love about everything related to the trauma. SA survivors can still be very sexual in their own right. as for Alex, we all know he's better than to agree with such bs. he was paid and contracted to write his name on things, and that's what he did - his job.
The songwriter for poison was actually a victim of SA himself. Is he not processing his trauma and recovering the right way? That’s pretty much what people are saying.
Angel dust likes sex he picked to he in the porn industry but he gets used and sexually assaulted by valentino like why is everyone so mad about this and offend and calling him a bad SA victim like those people don't know what their talking about because they were never SAed I have been and I see no problem with angel dust (I only dislike his design)
SA survivor. I hadn't seen their video before but was willing to accept it as just a critical opinion where they had their own experiences and that was okay. SA protrayal is such a touchy subject and not everyone will agree with how it was done. Plus they got mega harrassed by the fandom over it and straight up denies their experience so I did feel geninue sympathy. Now I fucking don't lmao. All that got thrown out the window. I've been to conventions. CONVENTIONS AREN'T CHEAP. Did they seriously just fucking pay for a ticket, possibly pay for a flight (or gas if driven) and possibly pay for a Hotel, then pay the fucking voice actor just to prove a point? That has to be at minimum 100 dollars WITHOUT travel. Including travel, especially if by plane, it would be sereval hundreds, at least 400 bare minimum. Absolutely delusional holy shit.
Hey, maybe Viv can start a charity for people like her to start changing their ways? Joking of course. But, funny if they went to a Hotel. Maybe they'll be a Hasbeen UA-camr soon? As in, drop off of popularity. I hope not for this one mistake, but, if they keep doing things like this, then, yeah. I believe they would deserve to lose some UA-cam stats. I wouldn't want them to go poor because of it but it would suck if nothing comes of it if they keep doing things like this. I wonder if she has a history doing things like this in public? And crazy that she censored her face yet openly put Alex Brightman's name on her post. Why? Is it to make him look bad?
Haven't seen the video either, but another comment under this post from someone who _did_ said that apparently she was "Gatekeeping trauma, trauma processing, and recovery, as though all SA victims are the same". So, already a bad person to start with.
@@SavouryGalette They also deny the trauma of SA victims who actually like Angel. At one point in the video there's a line like "if you like this character you're not SA victims". So... yeah, there's that too.
@@megaene Fucking disgusting holy shit. She really said that? Part of me always thought about making a video about my opinion on the SA representation and I know I'd say something like "If you're an SA victim and don't like the representation, that's okay. We're not all going to agree. But if you're not an SA victim, it's up to you to listen to us and form your own opinion. Don't speak over us." Like it's seriously that simple???
Okay woah I completely agree with viv on this because it's like dude you can't just do that bro it's not natrual it's completely boundary crossing and out of pocket. Like no. just no You're allowed to be critical and rude, but after that LEAVE it just as it is. I will never understand why some people do outlandish things to get noticed, it's honestly sad.
I believe Limus refers to herself/themself in the feminine. But, yeah. Keep that stuff in your corner of the Internet. It's fine to bring it up on Reddit/Discord if allowed there. But, like, weird to get someone to sign hatemail/hateposter. Seemed to want to get Alex Brightman to seem like he agreed with her. In this way, it's a lot like asking teacher to play favorites.
If someone feels really offended by a show and has to coerce the actors into signing fake petitions and turning people against the creator, they have problems. If you feel offended by someone's show, don't watch it. And don't get butt hurt when people don't take your side🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, that's it! And honestly, it's worth accepting that different people have different ways of overcoming trauma, including how SA is perceived can differ and that's okay, it doesn't make Angel a poorly written character, he's just different from what Limus experienced.
Not only that. Limus is on record saying that if you are a victim of abuse, but still like Angel or see yourself in him, you're a liar and your trauma is made up. Which is, you know, a pretty dick move from a SA victim.
@@megaeneyeah. I'm literally the kind of person they were targetting, and honestly? It hurts. To have to hear another victim, who you thought would understand, say you're faking a traumatic experience.
Honestly, I think angel dust is an extremely well written character. The portrayal of abuse isn’t perfect, but there is so much more to angels character then just being a victim of Valentino and the growth angel goes through throughout season one is honestly so well written.
personally i'm always baffled by the people who say that Angel isn't well written. My girlfriend is a victim of abuse by several people and when i first met her she was almost the spitting image of angel. i'm also a victim of abuse and shared many of Angels traits. ofc not everyone is the same after traumatic experiences but claiming that how Angel is written is wrong just because *they* aren't like that is completely dumb.
Limus actually explained why Angel's victim-portrayal had flaws. Limus had used sir pentious as reasoning of why Angel was poorly ridden. Shortly: both Sir pentious and Angel was SA'ed, but the difference was Pentious was seen as a joke, and Angel was not. Limus thought that was unfair and double standards. Which I kinda agree with, but now i dont like Limus because of the drama that has been made. Edit: sorry, it was not Limus. It was 'Vanitymoth' who spoke out about it.
Who said Pen was a victim of SA? He was a victorian dude that died in the victorian era iirc when an experiment went wrong. In all of the official content i've seen since before the pilot i've never seen mention of Pentious being a victim of SA.
I think they are referring to the bar scene where pentious is "Im having sex with everybody" and gets dragged into the room by bunch of people. @@Chordata-flyer
Seeing people fighting over the legend of brightman himself. Just like, why? Sure he’s there to sign things but don’t make him apart of your inappropriate scandal. Like. Come on.
I remember hearing about this and it made my blood boil. The original video basically boiled down to "this portrayal of abuse isn't like what I went through and therefore it's bad" because I guess all abuse looks the same (/s). My abuse wasn't a perfect mirror to Angel's either but that doesn't make the portrayal bad. But the opinion of the portrayal being bad would be perfectly fine... You know, until you do unhinged nonsense like coerce an actor into signing a piece of hate for the show because of your weird Vivziepop hate boner, and then acting so smug about it. What a shitty thing to do. And I'd really like to see proof for the claim about Viv not defending Michael Kovach from harassing Val cosplayers. It all gets so much more fucked up when you remember that Viv based Val's abuse of Angel off her own real life experiences. Absolutely sick.
THIS. They always paint victims to be sex-repulsed and hating touch and anything sexual. SOME of them are, not ALL of them. I'm an SA victim myself and I relate to Angel, since I came out massively hypersexual and due to my current situation it's the only thing keeping me afloat. The thought of Angel's portrayal being bad js because you didn't experience it the same way is just incredibly stupid.
@Dazzle_The_Tragedy_Mask exactly I agree with you on as a victim as well I’ve dealt with so many people like him. Someone even said that I was lying about being a victim all because I was defending the scene
Limus made a video about how badly he got represented. Not that Angel Dust and Limus didn't share the same trauma. Angel dust is poorly written purely for emotions, and you continue to support a creator who makes fun of SA while having a SA victim character.
@duwi8407 One reason why I’ve never had a problem with the SA jokes Viv made was because, unlike angel, Pent and Mox weren’t torn up about their situations. Few hours later both of them were up and kicking like usual. Angel is actually traumatized by his situation and therefore it’s easier for me to feel awful for him
even if i wasn't a fan or didn't agree with Viv, going out of your way and wasting money just to have a "hey i hate this show so much that im actually going to print it on paper how much i hate this show and get the actors of the show to sign it, im such a badass" gotcha moment is genuinely stupid
@Lilliepup he did all that to get 200 likes on twt... honestly the fandom never shouldve interacted w this guy, it gave him more platform than anything smh...
It pisses me that I didn't do anything when I saw her. I hadn't seen the video but I DEFINITELY saw the cutout and immediately saw that as a red flag. I was CONSIDERING watching it but that went out the window now-
HOW DARE THAT PERSON!! Totally inappropriate and disgusting to coerce Alex Brightman to sign something like that! And Viv has stood up for actors before, but she's not All-Seeing, she can't catch all the nasty hate. People need to back off and keep their nasty opinions to themselves!!!
@@Steakeater400 yes, the point was he was basically tricked into signing something so disgusting. Not that he was signing against his will, that's what he was there to do. It was just WHAT he unknowingly signed. That's the issue.
This behavior from Limus is really really weird. I've seen that video and it's a very serious topic. They should've known better and had boundaries if they we're gonna talk about fucking ABUSE. Who does she think she is to parade around like an idiot and break boundaries presenting themselves as "holier than thou" because they have criticism about Angel Dust's abuse???
@santiagotilve1025 Only thing I have to say to that is that Limus didn't abuse Alex. However, she did HARASS him. There is a difference. However, they can overlap in some cases but this isn't one of those cases.
@@Mothman_The_Moth yeah you are right sorry, like i meant to say that but its still kinda abusse when you manipulate someone to do something they wouldnt have done normally, he put that poor actor in a very hard position. Like if this is from amazon prime he might get fired over this
@@Mothman_The_MothI read it as more "abuses the kindess of this person" or "abuses the situation where they are working" yes, it is more harassment but as a service worker who has been trapped in these uncomfortable situations and as an abuse victim, it can feel very similar.
God, Vivzie UA-cam haters are terrifying. I can't with their crazy and obsessive conduct. Like be critical, as much as you want, but leave that woman and her team alone. Stop making it your mission to incite this level of hatred.
I mean, hating viziepop is completely valid since she's a gross person but I def think the person overstepped their boundaries 😭 (considering viziepop is profic and defended her storyboard writer for having a r3pe kink when they weren't even a victim)
Honestly the setting for the show is accurate considering the fanbase lives in constant hell and mostly just wants to watch the show and do neat stuff with it in peace.
I’m getting really tired of these controversies it’s just making it overwhelming and sucking the fun out of watching these shows (and I love hazbin hotel and helluva boss)
Honestly though, if you stay off of twitter and dont watch channels like this that report on the twitter drama, you're not likely to know it's happening. Put yourself first if it's actually getting in the way of something you enjoy.
Wow the absolute audacity to use Michael's situation as a way to defend yourself for shitty behavior. I'm pretty sure it's common sense that Viv wouldn't support Michael being harassed either? Like wow how disgusting. Have your opinion or whatever but don't put the actors into this.
Shoot. Micheal is the VA of the guy/character she/they was defending!? That's weird/ironic. Angel is the character they think is a really bad stereotype. Do they blame the actors?
@@snakesareamazing when did that happen? Can you send me a source? Or is this just hearsay? Was it maybe because of a contract with Amazon? I mean the HH pilot got taken down for a short period of time due to copyright.
When I watched the video for the first time I did agree on some of the things he said but going to a convention wasting your money to go there and to get mad on the VA even though the VA doesn't have full control on what happens in the story I understand that you dislike the show but letting your anger on a VA is just stupid
Agreed. Like I love the show. I even think that they handled Angel well (especially in the context of Viv and I being the same age) because there are lot of us who know more than one person who has gone through something and then acts like Angel. I’m radio deer trash. Die hard. What does the hatedom try to do? Compare Alastor and Val via Husk and Angel. … by completely forgetting that Husk will go back to being an Overlord who owned souls and chose to gamble away his own on a risk due to his own vice/Cardinal Sin. Angel _never_ had that kind of power to potentially stand toe to toe against Val. Which makes me bitterly amused because it’s almost like the people hating on Hazbin don’t have an understanding of ab^s^ and power dynamics because they are stuck in an echo chamber. I also have some problems with the show (purely world building) but I’m not going to hold animators and theater majors to my _history degree_ standards. Because, A) I will make my self nuts, and B) it’s not fair to shove that on to them. Do they need to do better research? Yup. 100%. Is that my business? No. Not unless I start seriously making content that is me proving I know what I’m doing and why the powers and such (particularly Alastor and Vox) don’t make a lick of sense from how technology actually evolved side by side. Which isn’t me hating at all, I just see a handful of things that need to be accounted for in future _or_ explained away by character work.
I've been to conventions. Limus spent was is likely serveal hundreds of dollars just to be an attention-whore. At that point you need to seek professional help. And that statement is not a joke or a insult. This behavior is geninuely fucking disturbing and she needs actual help. No sane person acts this delusional. Can't believe I used to be sympathetic to them.
@@Crisjola not to mention you seriously need to do research or need to actively be involved in the fandom to understand a bunch of things that someone who just watches the show would not understand like there’s like one throwaway line that shows sinners can respawn but that’s not good enough explanation how that work the only reason I know about is because of this UA-cam channel explaining a lot of the Lore and world building
She made a hate video and walked around a convention just to get a voice actor from the show to sign it, for... What reason, exactly? Was it supposed to be a power move, or something? Because it's just pathetic.
We can't know what he actually thinks until he actually says something about it. I sure as shit am not taking the word of someone with a clear bias and motive who paid Alex to do something.
I hate that their stance is “how not to write an SA survivor.” When there is no black and white representation of a SA survivor. Some people who suffer SA would do exactly what Angel does and that’s to be overly sexual and suffer from substance abuse. They feel being more sexual themselves gives them that power back. Some people end up LIKING to be choked during intimate moments because it gives them that power back to choose to be chocked and it not be forced on them. Some lean more into it to have a sense of gaining that control back while others may completely avoid it and never want to be intimate again. There is no RIGHT WAY to write someone who has suffered SA because everyone experiences it differently and reacts differently.
The hatedom is genuinely more embarrassing than the fans who just genuinely like the show. Like, I can’t even express fully how stupid it is to hear such bizarre statements come out of people’s mouths regarding all this. Having problems with a show is one thing (we all have legitimate complaints about shows we otherwise like) but these kinds of stunts don’t help the fandom at all. If anything, they piss off a lot more people who feel like these guys are acting entitled over a show that they VERY likely have never worked on, and even then it’s stupid to do something like this.
At this point, people are reallyyyy going too far. It's fine to not like the show and to make a video as to why, but seriously, there's boundaries for a reason, and people need to learn to respect them. They make the show for people to enjoy it, not so people can get harassed.
@@Steakeater400 didn’t…didn’t both sides send death threats to each other? (Idk really, i’ve seen it from both sides as a fan of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel and i half-agree, it’s very disgusting, a lot of the fandoms i’m in do this and i’m now ashamed to be a part of any fandom in general. I’m just really glad i don’t have Twitter, that sounds like a hellhole.)
I watched the original video that the UA-camr printed out and I could understand his points but this definitely crossed a line as obviously we have no proof that Alex said he agreed with the video and the signature means nothing as VAs are PAID to sigh stuff all the time. Having Alex sign it then say he agreed with it is defamation on some part and down right disrespectful to Alex as a person because the UA-camr obviously is just using the fact that Alex is well known to be like “Ya I got one of the VAs to sign this photo basically saying that he hates the show” in the video that this who this is about the guy even said that he’s been abused and found Angel disrespectful to what he went through and that’s valid but then going out and basically manipulating someone who had no idea what your intentions are is just wrong. (I hate long comments so I’m sorry for the rant but this genuinely bugs me)
You're not the only one. First time I saw that video I spent three hours writing and rewriting a response because I wanted to be respectful and not angry. When I got it to be respectful, I got blocked. I guess you can't tell people they're insulting victims of abuse by saying things like "if you like this character you're liars and were never abused" lol
Yeah, it’s fine if they don’t like the show, it’s all well and good to make videos criticizing the show. But putting actors on the spot like that goes beyond criticism into harassment territory
People really need to get a life, like, why would they think that was ok to do? Make a well beloved VA sign some stuff to feel justified in their criticisms??? Its like Viv said, people can have their opinions and criticize, but for the love of god, dont put someone in an uncomfortable position over it. This is why the fandom gets crapped on, cause of stupid people doing stupid stuff like this. We cant enjoy anything anymore Edit: Back in my day, we did something called, "change the channel". People need to start doing that and change the videos/media they dont like seeing. Bunch of idiots
This type of hazbin hotel haters dont learn. Some simply dont like the show but the ones that say "vivizie is evil for representing SA this way" have no cure
The funny part is if Alex didn’t sign it and said this makes them uncomfortable and this is inappropriate behavior that same people trying to act like they have the moral high ground would of said how Alex is a rude for not signing it and how they are comfortable with the stuff I’m Hazbin hotel but signing that poster was too fair. Like what did they want to happen? Did they want Alex to pull a prime Mike Tyson and knock them out unconscious spit on them and say how inappropriate it is for a convection and how she burn is fire? It’s easier for the actor to sign anything since they either don’t know or to avoid any further awkward conversation
why am I not surprised it's twitter i'm glad I left it btw I hate hearing about some sort of drama with the show it's like everyone wants attention it's really annoying and I feel bad for everyone i'm disgusted
Poor Alex dude...he's my favourite VA of all the cast and he was just doing his job! He doesn't deserve any kind of drama, amd Vivienne has a point. However I didn't know about the Michael Kovach thing...wow. It's impressive how the fact that when a series is so good the fandom is more toxic...it's hard sometimes to be part of the fandom of your favourite series when the toxic part of the fandom is...well like...this. The good part of this fandom is amazing though
At this point, these aren’t even controversies. They’re just excuses to make unnecessary drama. I get the term, “haters gonna hate”, but this is just bizarre, considering the amount of these so called “controversies” that keep showing up time and time again for Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel.🙄
Alex Brightman isn't an idiot. He just wanted to be a good sport and do people a favor even when they don't like his work. And if someone says they're uncomfortable with an action, then that's the end of the discussion, you just apologize and don't do it. Everything else is simply uncivilized.
This is limus showing their true colors of being a dark side to them a petty side. What limus did makes them no better than what they say about the Michael kovach and Valentino costplayers situation. Limus fueling and adding to the hazbin hotel hate. And those last 3 post are petty argument. And that hazbin hotel won't improve with Vivziepop in charge. Limus, she is the reason why it exists. Is like telling alex Hirsch to leave his own project of gravity falls, he literally created the idea and world-building for it. And he practically knows what to add to the show because he made it in his own image and creation. And the idea for gravity falls wouldn't exist. Vivziepop is the reason for why hazbin hotel exist for you to hate limus. I feel like now it's never about the angel dust SA but for petty reasons.
To say that angel is bad writing of a victim of abuse is idiotic. As someone who's known people in situations of this kind of abuse the destructive way he acts is 100% something that can occur when someone is abused that way, and for people saying "Why does he still enjoy being a sex worker" HE DOESNT he's said a few times that he's forced to due to the contract and in the song poison he mentions how he hates it and how he feels numb to things now not to mention bro is put under an aphrodisiac aka Val's saliva all the time! If you have ever watched any documentary on people being kidnapped and drugged over and over to stay easy to control they become numbed to most things and live life in a daze even after getting free and rehabbed from the drugs. This dude is just hating to hate what a loser
Limus is also one of those that say "Poison" glorifies abuse and "Loser Baby" is about quit whining like a little bitch. Classic case of "I only see/hear what I want to see/hear".
A lot of these people debate on whether or not this character is relatable to them. I bet they say it’s not a good token rape victim literally because most of them weren’t even sex workers. I will also say that for people praising angel and literally thinking that they are the character. Literally you were not forced into sex work and all of a sudden, you’re watching a stupid show about cartoon demons.
This person seems to be an attention seeker and hyper critical of Vivzie for things outside of her control. Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cosplay does not, nor will it ever equal consent. I can't say whether or not Vivziepop has said anything about what happened to Michael at conventions but what I can say is that she has absolutely no control over what other people say and do and it's pretty asinine to go putting words in someone's mouth like speaking for Alex or saying that Vivzie openly did nothing when you can't know the full story as you've never ask. Frankly I think it's pretty shitty to put someone on the spot or speak for them, especially when you've paid them to do something. We can't know what Alex actually thinks about the situation until he actually comes out and says something about it. Until then I can't really speak on the matter as it's a patchwork puzzle that people are actively taking pieces from and are touting them around as the full picture when it's only a piece. Especially when someone has a very clear bias.
@@Darostelijaa plus, you’ll never see a fandom that doesn’t have a bad side to it. You can’t be an anime fan and act high and mighty on furries because of one bad actor. It’s the same way with the hatedom complaining about fandom and vise versa.
Viziepop is profic and defended her storyboard writer who has a r3pe kink when they weren't even a victim of SA and confirmed that so I dont really see why we shouldn't hate her, dont agree with what the person did though
@ There's a nothing wrong with hating Vivziepop and bringing to light all the awful things they've done or condoned. Obsessively hating her and the entire fandom can be a problem though, since it causes trouble to unrelated people and often even distracts from the real issues. It's the same thing with other media with problematic creators (for example Harry Potter). Educating people is very much possible and even encouraged, but ultimately no one can decide what another person likes or what content they consume. There's no point in turning hate into a spectacle.
That they make themselves a victim by claiming it was just 'getting a signature' is the most deranged part that I can be sure of, since they were entirely deceptive about what it was actually for. 🤦♂️😠
@@Lilliepup No I believe actors have the discretion to refuse to sign stuff. Especially when it's unofficial merch which yes that sign was unofficial merch
I honestly feel like this was made in such a way where the voice actor felt like he had to sign it or otherwise they would turn it against the voice actor being like "oh so you agree with with viv??" And try and make him look like a bad guy
This person probably would’ve made a video calling Brightman a ped0 or something if he didn’t sign it. She’s clearly the spiteful type if she’s willing to spend money on such a dumb stunt
At this point, I'm genuinely curious if the HB/HH antis really do outnumber the actual fans or if's just a handful of loud trolls that have nothing but time on their hands?
I swear ( even despite my profile being named after one of the characters from ) the show is basically just becoming the yandere simulator of indie animation at least in terms of causing and attracting drama and it seems it can't stop being a magnet for it guess it goes to show toxicity attracts
If you don’t like the show, simply don’t watch it. Don’t bother the people who do enjoy it, or the people who create it. It’s not hard. Yet this bs happens in every fandom.
I agree with Viv. I've met with Alex before for a signing. As well as Blake. They have *a lot* of people coming in to see him. There's no doubt in my mind he was probably preoccupied with talking with others and trying to form a connection than what he was actually signing.
Thats the most insane ludicrous thing I've ever witnessed, I still can't believe people go after the fan when most like to keep to themselves and people who hate take this way to damn far, really disgusting behaviour and I really hope they can get help or something became that is not a normal or sane thing to do
If he thinks he’s so good at pulling apart trauma I wanna see a psychology degree because anyone can say “that doesn’t look like trauma” but a professional can say “that isn’t trauma here’s why”
Why people like that guy exist? If you don't like the show then move on!! Criticize it and go on with your life is too much to ask? Ships wars are one thing but harass the voice actors is way too much, this needs to stop 🛑.
No depiction of abuse will be 'perfect' because we all experience the trauma of abuse differently. I personally relate very heavily to Angel Dust due to an explicit childhood. But others with my experience might not. Regardless, tearing fans down is never the answer.
The show is not my most favorite piece of media on the planet. I definitely can say I like it a fair amount and still very much enjoy watching it, as well as recognize that it isn't perfect. it is one of my friends favorite things ever. she has all the merch, talks about it very frequently and loves every little thing about the show. though we like the show to different degrees, we still talk about it in a friendly manner. I'm not going to say that she's stupid for liking something. it absolutely discuss me how people are so willing to put others down on the internet just for having interests. you wouldn't do that to your friend, right? Just please for goodness sake, LET THE SHOW EXIST! stop trampling on people's success and using hate to get attention! ...how did that get so long? for clarification: I understand the 'you' phrasing I used might seam accusatory, it's not. I'm just ranting :)
Why am I not surprised that Limus is back with more crap? Already literally having no argument, other than "I was victim of SA thus I can speak for everyone and say this is offensive, and if you aren't offended you're liars and your abuse never happened", which is NOT an argument, but just climbing mirrors and projecting. Now they're going to harass the voice actors and the creator too? And also, they're not a fan. Their "critique" is 20 minutes of whining about nonsense, completely made up stuff, and different variants of "I hate this show", and by their own admission in that same video, watched the first half of the season with very little attention, and never even watched the second half. But now that someone calls you out, "uuuuh the creator is bullying fans we we we". No, the fandom isn't sick. Limus just has a hate boner problem. Because everyone loves Angel Dust, wether are abuse victims, SA victims, LGBT, even cis straight men who were never abused. He's literally the most popular character, second only to Alastor. This person alone has an issue with it, and has been trying to rally hate marches for a while now, based on... their personal perception of a fictional character. Does that make sense? No. It doesn't. It's dumb. You're never going to be a paladin of acceptance by trying to rise a march of intolerance. But keep telling SA victims that see themselves in Angel Dust that they're liars and they were never abused, I guess. I'm sure that'll earn you plenty of Charisma points.
@@nickcooper7714Fair enough. I just typed quickly because that person already angers me like crazy thanks to that ridiculous video, and now with this I just lost it.
@@androidps1440 Thanks you, "amigo", for your short asinine non-contribution. In typical fashion of hater, you attack me for "my" fandom, for something done by someone who's not me and isn't even part of the fandom. Thanks for the waste of time, have a good day.
@@androidps1440No, thank you, "amigo", for this asinine non-contribution typical of an internet Neanderthal-esque cave. You missed a couple things, though: 1) This isn't "my" fandom. I didn't start it, and even if I did I wouldn't own it. A fandom is not something you possess, that's just not how things go. It's like saying Martin Luther King owned the civil rights movement; see how little sense it makes? 2) The individual who started this attention-seeking mess isn't a fan, but a self-proclamed "proud hater". You're trying to use an act of the hatedom to attack the fandom as if the fandom did it. Did you pay any attention? Somehow I doubt. So long, and thanks for the forgettable discussion.
@@androidps1440 No, thank you, "amigo", for this asinine non-contribution typical of an internet Neanderthal-esque cave. You missed a couple things, though: 1) This isn't "my" fandom. I didn't start it, and even if I did I wouldn't own it. A fandom is not something you possess, that's just not how things go. It's like saying Martin Luther King owned the civil rights movement; see how little sense it makes? 2) The individual who started this attention-seeking mess isn't a fan, but a self-proclamed "proud hater". You're trying to use an act of the hatedom to attack the fandom as if the fandom did it. Did you pay any attention? Somehow I doubt. So long, and thanks for the forgettable discussion.
yk what i dislike abt her accusation viv only draws the line at a signature? the fact that they compared it to michael kovak's being harassed by a valentino cosplayer- and michael had explicitly mentioned in his tweet about it that he hadn't gotten security involved, and didn't want to make things a big deal. PLUS- viv isn't some omnipresent god? she can't possibly know every single situation going on with the fanbase, even stuff that may surround her actors?
That's what I was thinking! I don't want to speak for him, but I feel like if I was in his position there, I'd prefer to say something for myself if anything would be said at all, rather than having my boss do it for me Also not saying that'd *always* be the case, but it makes sense as a reason for why she didn't make a statement
@ yeah! AND- he said it was his first con as angel dust's actor. so this was back in what, 2022 at the latest? he only posted about it in 2024 though. he couldve wanted it to stay out of the public eye, and maybe viv provided support that we just didnt see. because theyre both still human beings with their own private lives.
Criticisms are fine. I love both Hazbin and Helluva, but I also have some criticisms as well. I think that criticism is necessary for things to get better. However, this seems a bit too far… like, why not put that same energy into something that you love. Congratulations, you were seeking attention and you got it, now what?
Does this person not understand that a lot of people who have been through what Angel Dust has, usually internally use their trauma as a kink? Usually it's subconsciously. But for the victim its having control over their trauma. But honestly its a weird take to force someone to sign the paper they're carrying around to lie about that.
Limus thinking her experience is the ONLY experience says a lot about her.... I'm a survivor too, and I and another survivor I was close with had the wildest sloot phases akin to Angel dust, right down to the drvgs. It's like a when life gives you lemons mentality, if you're going to be treated like a piece of meat you'll convince yourself you enjoy it to fool yourself into thinking you've some sense of control, that it's your choice.... Limus needs to step outside of their own little bubble
From a therapists point of view, i think angle was portrayed as a victim of sexual perfectly because most victims of it go into psychosis where they use sex or drugs to get out of it and then when they realise that its not the way to go they blaim themselves and say they can't be fixed which is what angel was going through in season 1
ok so i saw this on my tl and tbh i was rooting for them in the past but now that they came up w/this sorta behavior..is just like...man, are you even defending your opinion anymore??? juat doing this shit to strike your ego bro. but yeah they hate vivziepop & try to get bait clicks
Friend of mine who went through thr whole "guys can't be SA'd" bs due his partner years ago. Angel Dust's song really spoke to him about the crap he went through being stuck in an abusive relationship. The highs are toxic but leaving your craving them during the lows. Not everyone's SA experience is the same, and someone else's experience and validation does not invalidate someone else's just because you don't experience trauma the same way
Imagine being Alex in that situation though. One moment you’re having a laugh and taking selfies with fans, the next you see a guy holding a land yard of his YT thumbnail like a doomsday prepper and goes up to you like. “The show you’re starring in is bad and I will be a justice leader btw autograph my review please!” Shameless self promotion and
Hey I was at that convention not to long ago and I was in the same line as that person waiting for a signature from Alex. I do feel bad for him though that he had to sign something like that!
Originally, I felt bad for Limus, I thought he was way too harassed for his opinion. However he shouldn’t have brought Alex Brightman into it. Like he has nothing to do with this and probably had no choice other than to sign it. It just feels so wrong to exploit a system ment for fans for some petty UA-cam drama
nah I saw the vid awhile ago. I think the points were valid, but I didn't agree with them. Quite the opposite actually. But this behavior is insane. If you don't care about Hazbin, then don't care, but this is obsessive
My take is quite simple. It was frankly a rude thing to do. They made the youtube video, nuff said. The subsequent rant on social media only makes them look childish, and a bit petty. The way they reacted was wrong, the actions they took were wrong (outside of making the video, which i havent watched, so cant critique). In other words, they need to sit down, calm down, and get off twitter.
As someone who knows a guy who has had a very similar experience to Angel Dust I hated that video. Claiming all victims go through the same experience and invalidating my friends experience as a victim? I honestly think Angel dust is a great example of abuse and his scenes were very hard to watch
Was their argument for making a VA uncomfortable seriously "well other people have done it so why can't I?" Genuinely the dumbest thing I've seen this year its only January.
No?
its more a "you didnt critize it when someone did it worse"
@@tomasavendanozacarias5205 I swear that sounds like they’re back in elementary school again. I tried to point out that another person did something wrong and think that they’ll avoid getting in trouble that way.
It’s for real just “why was I punished for bullying this guy? That other guy punched another guy.”
@tomasavendanozacarias5205 someone doing something bad is not an excuse for doing something bad to SOMEONE ELSE,they didn't do anything bad to viv they did it to someone who had nothing to do with it plus viv gets the same kind of harassment from other fans,she's not,not doing anything about it cuz she doesn't care she's doing nothing about it cuz she doesn't known what to do because if she could do something she would have done it since it's happening to her to
Ayy Lmao is like our news reporter at this point 😭
The Tom Trench of UA-cam
I would listen to the news if he was the one covering them
@@melodystarlight7933same
@@melodystarlight7933Fr
2 types of news
-Did you know that is ...
-New drama. ...
As an SA survivor, it's valid to have an opinion on how a show wrote a character who survived SA, but seeing fans behave like this - using SA to cause an internet scandal - is very uncomfortable & comes off as them only caring if it makes them appear like some kind of saviour & not because they actually care about us.
I won't pretend the show was perfect, but at the same time it means a lot that we have queer SA characters who aren't used as plot devices, for another character's development or to villainize the LGBTQ+ community. I'm so grateful that characters Like Angel Dust from HH and Charlie from Heartstopper exist!
Edit: Just found out that Limus is a survivor too. While their experiences are valid, it's not an excuse to gatekeep trauma or insist it's horrible rep because it doesn't resonate with them. I'll admit my situation was different to Angels & so are my attitudes towards sex, but every survivors experiences are different & all are equally valid. It's no excuse to pit survivors against each other or bring a voice actor into such ridiculous drama (them being a survivor actually makes it worse IMO).
To anyone reading this, IDC if you are an SA survivor yourself, NEVER speak over other survivors or invalidate their experiences!!!
Edit 2: To those bring it up, no, I'm not comfortable with what happened with Sir Pentious in s1 ep 6 either (or Moxxie in s1 e3). Like I said, the show isn't perfect. You can give the show constructive criticism but don't bash on fans for liking it or speak over fans who relate to characters like Angel Dust.
If you have seen Banana Fish; What are your thoughts on Ash Lynx? Speaking about SA representation in media.
Limus and others who complained about angel dust being not a accurate SA victim.
Oh you are using your victim card to push your own opinion on what is accurate to a SA victim it's not about you it's for others who have a similar situation to angel dust.
Just because angel dust SA victim story doesn't aline with yours dose not give you rights to criticize, just because you are a SA victim even if valid.
It is denying others who has a similar situation to angel dust.
For those who made those who called angel dust is bad SA victim have you asked others like being in a abusive relationship similar to angel dust.
That argument of comparing sir pentious rape scene and angel dust SA have people taking things too seriously that sir pentious moment was for a joke, laughs a comedic moment not ment to be taken seriously and angel dust because for character development.
It's true. Some people can't even take a joke without being serious.
Now a day people take things too seriously.
And those who say this can't have a double standard yes it can look at family guy and south park the shows before has been existed.
Family guy it's has that episode of Peter thinks that prostate exams was rape then quagmire exist by how many times it's implied and shown that quagmire violate a woman's unconscious body and probably traps them in his basement and it was played off for a laugh.
Same with that scene where peter was assaulted by Steam from a pie for fun.
Quagmire the embodiment of not consenting.
And then south park has practically touch every serious topic there is I made it into a funny parody that scene where cartman just casually show a pile of aborted fetuses.
And family guy and south park has done it for years and haven't being canceled.
But when hazbin hotel does it you criticize it. And forget family guy and South park exist and done worse.
And Vivziepop said that her humor comes from family guy and South park.
You people say that hazbin hotel can't have a double standard of this when you clearly are hypocrites.
When you grow up with family guy and South park.
And some of these people haven't even watched a single episode of a family guy.
Have you watched family guy or south park or not. Clearly not by lack of how offensive is family guy or South park
If limus watched a quagmire compilation and that quagmire episode about him in abusive relationship they might have a mental breakdown and a 5-hour rant about it on UA-cam. By how much "how to not do" SA in family guy.
Have you watched family guy or south park or not. Clearly not by lack of how offensive is family guy or South park and they depict SA wrong videos.
Who knew that so many people use the victim card just for being the center of attention.
And that under the victim they can be such a self-confidence narcissist.
And a dark side of limus coming out to shop how petty they can be.
@@jenehtarmijos7527 I'm not sure yet. I haven't seen the show or read the manga yet so I'll come back & answer once I have. /g
@@aliciahuang6329Hi! I’m an CSA victim who half and half agrees with Limus’s og video. My opinion is that the show decides to make angel dust an SA victim while also making an SA joke with sir Pentious. My issue is NOT how Angel is portrayed, but more of how Vivzie not only wrote in a serious SA story, but also a “comedic” SA moment.
@PopCatBot I'm an SA victim too, and I agree with the Sir Pentious thing. Using it as a joke made me extremely uncomfortable. Sir Pentious is one of my comfort characters, too, so it made me super sad.
Honestly I’m not even shocked by these dramas anymore
Same...
It's getting annoying at this point
I am, I guess I just hang out in chill waters and avoid the high seas?
Blue sky is just pretty chill.
Wakes up and looks at phone: *drama in basically any thing u like for some reason*
Good to know humanity hasn't changed.....
Whelp, let's ignore it and just go back to enjoying what I like like a normal person
So true
Went to this convention went to the Alex Brightman line chatted with some people there but, then I saw Limus in the line with the piece of paper and it was just a mind blower to see that someone even had the guts to wear something like that to a convention with a multitude of different people. But, the context of their criticism made me think why would you walk around a convention with a mention of a sensitive topic?
I get sex jokes exist in the show but the fandom is so young sometimes.
And that's inappropriate in public.
Please don't do this! If you're reading this!
Someone on a community post talked about this drama, and a comment said something about how it was just a “silly little picture”
Like excuse me?!! I don’t know how some people don’t see how uncomfortable that is!
@AwsomeSquirtle1 If I had been at that convention and saw Limus wearing that, I'd be extremely uncomfortable. Speaking as an SA victim.
@ I’m gonna be completely honest. I’m not an SA victim. But I’d still be weirded out if I saw Limus do this in person. It’s like she dedicated a portion of her life to hate Angel’s rep or the show itself.
(Sorry if it seems like I’m ranting)
I made a reddit post asking if Addict or Poison had better SA rep, and Limus saw it and commented “both are kinda fetishy”. Seeing this now, I’m confused on what she was doing in the Hazbin server if she hates the show?
Because they don’t actually care about what they preach about. They just care about attention for hating something others like. So they’d gladly do this with zero regards to actual people affected
"Hazbin won't improve with Viv in Charge"
Brother Vivziepop is the reason the show exists
Sister, but yeah. I totally agree.
It’s like saying “George Washington won’t improve America” like first of all he’s been dead for almost 300 years AND he started the country
Either way they dum@@tylerlyons1812
In that logic, hopefully there’s some fraction of improvement for VivziePop to consider. 🤔🙏✨
@rowanknighthood7255 I mean yeah obviously
Hazbin Hotel has a lot of problems
Poor Alex. That must’ve been so awkward.
Lord forbid if she did that to Blake
@@sailorstar3148 I would tear up if that was the case 😭🙏
That’s not cherishing an actor’s signature. More like exploiting it out of spite, heavily to endorse one’s own vid and pov of Sexual Misconduct.
I'm so mad I wasn't looking when Limus went up. I was too busy talking and only got to see them walking away afterwards. I think I heard them say something as they passed by too but I don't exactly remember what TOT
Honestly, it was awkward for ME and I wasn't even in their line of sight.
He's such a sweet guy too! I got to meet him a month ago in Columbus
This guy seriously got mad that Viv was uncomfortable with his behavior while simultaneously condemning her for not doing so in a different situation? If she doesn't stand up for her actors, she's the villain, if she does, she's the villain
I think it's more that she seems to care more when someone was being petty rather than when someone got assaulted
OK to clarify, Limus uses she/they pronouns. But anyways, yeah this was poor behavior on her part even though I actually agreed with parts of her video.
They are so not serious
@@sailorstar3148 She is, she actually is.
@bunnyloves6975
Does it even matter if Viv makes a statement? It should go without saying that the time the Val cosplayer was creepy and flirty to (was it the original VA for Angel Dust) Angel Dust' VA, she doesn't approve of it.
Was it assault? I thought it was just being creepy.
At this point, they just try to make a reason to hate Hazbin Hotel
Yep 😢
yea
Especially when it’s an indie adult show that has been getting a lot of praise from critics and fans alike but yes you are entitled to your opinions about it but don’t take it personally because the voice actors have nothing to do with the characters that they are portraying and their characters behavior and characterization
they've always done it
It's poorly written...ain't that enough of a reason?
Another reason why the hazbin/helluva hatedom is more toxic than the actual fans. Seriously can people just not like shows anymore, or be critical of them. They had to do some weird stuff like this
T.T ikr
Well, I'd say they're closer in terms of toxicity, though I'll give the edge to the hatedom.
If you tell them to just stop watching the shows, then they say you are gatekeeping them. I have gotten that exact response.
Honestly, its not just hazbin hotel and helluva boss anymore, people these days hate everything now, especially on twitter, they are all acting like spoiled brats and don't know how to shut up and be satisfied for once
That’s what I’ve been saying! I’ve always said how the Hazbin-Haters are more toxic than the fans themselves. The haters will make a whole entire fandom just to hate on the show, and they’ll harass anyone who likes the show. They literally will be like "Hazbin fans are cringe and annoying" and then they will proceed to be the ones that are annoying and cringe. I’m not tryna say all Hazbin-Haters are like this. There are some who just hate the show and they don’t harass people who like it. You are allowed to hate a show, but don’t harass the people who like it. And of course, there are also toxic Hazbin Fans. But overall, the haters are much more toxic.
(Also, I’ve been literally told to kill myself all because I like it…)
AS a SA survivor, I really hate when people like Limus come in and try to paint all SA surviviors recovery, trauma and etc the same and say 'oh well, your experience isn't real because it isn't what i went through.'
Like, excuse me? All SA survivors are valid and have different experiences.
THANK YOU we all experienced different why in recovery and him basically saying "we all recover the same" isn’t right at all
YES!!! OH MY GODS THANK YOU
angel IS an accurate representation for SOME people. not everyone but some. that still matters!
She sounds a little unhinged. I agree with Viv here.
I've disagreed with many of Viv's actions but certainly agreed with how odd Limus acted here. It's odd, I agreed with a lot of points made by Limus including the video she made.
@@TheUnmitigatedDawnIt's not odd to let an actor sign something
@@Steakeater400 It's odd to let an actor sign a thumbnail from a video where you called the show they worked on garbage.
@TheUnmitigatedDawn Not the show it's about the SA representation and like that wasn't just a thumbnail that was an actual scene from episode 4 during the song poison
It's the dark side of limus coming out.
When is there not drama in Hazbin in general
There actually hasn't been for a good while (from what I've been seeing, at least).
@PringlestheToast Seems like half the time, the drama comes from people who don't like the series or creator rather than extreme fans, too.
Honestly the haters at this point hate the show more than us fans love it and having to deal with people who spend so much time hating the show instead of just not watching it is annoying
Probably when Hazbin ends.
This isn’t even about Hazbin Hotel at this point, most of the drama has been irl drama that’s so weird
As someone who watched the video the creator made, I honestly agreed with some points presented.
Hazbin hotel is by no means a perfect show and does have some issues.
That being said, the horror on my face watching this is something else. To do that at a convention and be a terrible person later about it is horrifying.
Viv actually did the mature thing by only criticising their inappropriate actions at the convention and nothing else about their actual opinion.
The show is incredible in the way it’s paved indie animation projects and fighting to have your work seen. Issues can be fixed, problems addressed. But doing stuff like this is down right malicious against Viv, and does have intentional damaging wishes behind it.
Yeah, but to be honest, a lot of her point in the criticism was "my experience is different, so Angel and his trauma are poorly written," which is fundamentally wrong.
Their tramua is poorly written the whole show is poorly written @@Mari_Say
@@Mari_Say I don’t agree with those statements they made, but I didn’t mind some other criticism they made.
It only agreed with so much, and didn’t care much for the rest, since it’s their opinion about some opinion based things, so I personally didn’t care much. Now though, with the fact they are acting quite inappropriate about their opinion, that’s when they’ve definitely lost my agreement in some ideas.
Yea I saw it too and thought there were some good points, but I also remember her saying that Viv has a large child audience and thus has to be wary of what message she’s sending to children; while it’s true a lot of kids watch hazbin hotel, it felt crazy to me that a clearly adult show should have to censor itself for a child audience that it shouldn’t have, I’d give the argument significantly more credit if it was airing for free on UA-cam like Helluva is, but it’s on Amazon behind a paywall, any kid that has access to the show is already being given too much freedom on the internet and is bound to run into much worse stuff, that’s on the parents, not the media creators.
@@darthgamer6239 the trauma is not poorly written. there has only been 1 season.
I hated that video OP beforehand for gatekeeping trauma, trauma processing, and recovery as though all victims are the same. Now? They're even more disgusting to be. Angel is a great example of someone who sufferers trauma without losing everything they love about everything related to the trauma. SA survivors can still be very sexual in their own right.
as for Alex, we all know he's better than to agree with such bs. he was paid and contracted to write his name on things, and that's what he did - his job.
The songwriter for poison was actually a victim of SA himself. Is he not processing his trauma and recovering the right way? That’s pretty much what people are saying.
This is true, one of my friends is a victim of SA, she literally told me, it made her hypersexual. People respond differently to trauma
Yes, some SA survivors are hypersexual! I'm not one of them but it doesn't make me more valid than them (or the other way around)!
@0racle.sunrise3570 exactly, gatekeeping trauma is stupid
Angel dust likes sex he picked to he in the porn industry but he gets used and sexually assaulted by valentino like why is everyone so mad about this and offend and calling him a bad SA victim like those people don't know what their talking about because they were never SAed I have been and I see no problem with angel dust (I only dislike his design)
SA survivor. I hadn't seen their video before but was willing to accept it as just a critical opinion where they had their own experiences and that was okay. SA protrayal is such a touchy subject and not everyone will agree with how it was done. Plus they got mega harrassed by the fandom over it and straight up denies their experience so I did feel geninue sympathy.
Now I fucking don't lmao. All that got thrown out the window. I've been to conventions. CONVENTIONS AREN'T CHEAP. Did they seriously just fucking pay for a ticket, possibly pay for a flight (or gas if driven) and possibly pay for a Hotel, then pay the fucking voice actor just to prove a point? That has to be at minimum 100 dollars WITHOUT travel. Including travel, especially if by plane, it would be sereval hundreds, at least 400 bare minimum.
Absolutely delusional holy shit.
Hey, maybe Viv can start a charity for people like her to start changing their ways? Joking of course.
But, funny if they went to a Hotel. Maybe they'll be a Hasbeen UA-camr soon? As in, drop off of popularity.
I hope not for this one mistake, but, if they keep doing things like this, then, yeah. I believe they would deserve to lose some UA-cam stats. I wouldn't want them to go poor because of it but it would suck if nothing comes of it if they keep doing things like this.
I wonder if she has a history doing things like this in public?
And crazy that she censored her face yet openly put Alex Brightman's name on her post. Why? Is it to make him look bad?
Haven't seen the video either, but another comment under this post from someone who _did_ said that apparently she was "Gatekeeping trauma, trauma processing, and recovery, as though all SA victims are the same". So, already a bad person to start with.
I'm sorry you went through such a horrible experience and I agree with ya.
@@SavouryGalette They also deny the trauma of SA victims who actually like Angel. At one point in the video there's a line like "if you like this character you're not SA victims". So... yeah, there's that too.
@@megaene Fucking disgusting holy shit. She really said that?
Part of me always thought about making a video about my opinion on the SA representation and I know I'd say something like "If you're an SA victim and don't like the representation, that's okay. We're not all going to agree. But if you're not an SA victim, it's up to you to listen to us and form your own opinion. Don't speak over us."
Like it's seriously that simple???
Okay woah I completely agree with viv on this because it's like dude you can't just do that bro it's not natrual it's completely boundary crossing and out of pocket. Like no. just no
You're allowed to be critical and rude, but after that LEAVE it just as it is. I will never understand why some people do outlandish things to get noticed, it's honestly sad.
I believe Limus refers to herself/themself in the feminine.
But, yeah.
Keep that stuff in your corner of the Internet.
It's fine to bring it up on Reddit/Discord if allowed there. But, like, weird to get someone to sign hatemail/hateposter.
Seemed to want to get Alex Brightman to seem like he agreed with her.
In this way, it's a lot like asking teacher to play favorites.
It's common during these organizations to sign something
This is the dark side of limus a petty person for attention. Under that victim to pity for.
@@aliciahuang6329wtf? Because they called out the poor writing of Hazbin hotel?
If someone feels really offended by a show and has to coerce the actors into signing fake petitions and turning people against the creator, they have problems. If you feel offended by someone's show, don't watch it. And don't get butt hurt when people don't take your side🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, that's it! And honestly, it's worth accepting that different people have different ways of overcoming trauma, including how SA is perceived can differ and that's okay, it doesn't make Angel a poorly written character, he's just different from what Limus experienced.
LMAO when did they say that Limus told Alex to sign a fake petition
@duwi8407 Obviously someone can't put 2 and 2 together😅
they wanna talk about abuse while harassing people like that
Exactly. It's because he doesn't really care about the show or the characters. He just wants to cause drama.
Not only that. Limus is on record saying that if you are a victim of abuse, but still like Angel or see yourself in him, you're a liar and your trauma is made up. Which is, you know, a pretty dick move from a SA victim.
@@megaeneyeah. I'm literally the kind of person they were targetting, and honestly? It hurts. To have to hear another victim, who you thought would understand, say you're faking a traumatic experience.
@@megaeneI don’t remember them saying that
@@megaene Kinda fucked up bc I relate to his character to the point of him being a fictotype for me, bc I also became hypersexual from my own trauma
Honestly, I think angel dust is an extremely well written character. The portrayal of abuse isn’t perfect, but there is so much more to angels character then just being a victim of Valentino and the growth angel goes through throughout season one is honestly so well written.
personally i'm always baffled by the people who say that Angel isn't well written. My girlfriend is a victim of abuse by several people and when i first met her she was almost the spitting image of angel. i'm also a victim of abuse and shared many of Angels traits. ofc not everyone is the same after traumatic experiences but claiming that how Angel is written is wrong just because *they* aren't like that is completely dumb.
Limus actually explained why Angel's victim-portrayal had flaws. Limus had used sir pentious as reasoning of why Angel was poorly ridden.
Shortly: both Sir pentious and Angel was SA'ed, but the difference was Pentious was seen as a joke, and Angel was not.
Limus thought that was unfair and double standards.
Which I kinda agree with, but now i dont like Limus because of the drama that has been made.
Edit: sorry, it was not Limus.
It was 'Vanitymoth' who spoke out about it.
Who said Pen was a victim of SA? He was a victorian dude that died in the victorian era iirc when an experiment went wrong. In all of the official content i've seen since before the pilot i've never seen mention of Pentious being a victim of SA.
I think they are referring to the bar scene where pentious is "Im having sex with everybody" and gets dragged into the room by bunch of people. @@Chordata-flyer
Well written character yes
Well written SA survivor no😊
I feel really bad for Alex. I bet he didn't want to sign that but he kept up a professional attitude. if I were him I would have told her to gtfo
I was there but didn't know what to say, now I regret that.
@@Lilliepup Don't worry too much about it dude. Sometimes you just don't know how things are going to turn out.
XD how do u know that Alex was uncomfortable with it?
@duwi8407I mean, there’s no way of knowing for sure, but I’d say most people would feel comfortable in that situation
Seeing people fighting over the legend of brightman himself. Just like, why? Sure he’s there to sign things but don’t make him apart of your inappropriate scandal. Like. Come on.
But maybe he wanted to sign it?
I remember hearing about this and it made my blood boil. The original video basically boiled down to "this portrayal of abuse isn't like what I went through and therefore it's bad" because I guess all abuse looks the same (/s). My abuse wasn't a perfect mirror to Angel's either but that doesn't make the portrayal bad. But the opinion of the portrayal being bad would be perfectly fine...
You know, until you do unhinged nonsense like coerce an actor into signing a piece of hate for the show because of your weird Vivziepop hate boner, and then acting so smug about it. What a shitty thing to do. And I'd really like to see proof for the claim about Viv not defending Michael Kovach from harassing Val cosplayers.
It all gets so much more fucked up when you remember that Viv based Val's abuse of Angel off her own real life experiences. Absolutely sick.
THIS. They always paint victims to be sex-repulsed and hating touch and anything sexual. SOME of them are, not ALL of them. I'm an SA victim myself and I relate to Angel, since I came out massively hypersexual and due to my current situation it's the only thing keeping me afloat. The thought of Angel's portrayal being bad js because you didn't experience it the same way is just incredibly stupid.
@Dazzle_The_Tragedy_Mask exactly I agree with you on as a victim as well I’ve dealt with so many people like him. Someone even said that I was lying about being a victim all because I was defending the scene
Limus made a video about how badly he got represented. Not that Angel Dust and Limus didn't share the same trauma. Angel dust is poorly written purely for emotions, and you continue to support a creator who makes fun of SA while having a SA victim character.
@duwi8407 One reason why I’ve never had a problem with the SA jokes Viv made was because, unlike angel, Pent and Mox weren’t torn up about their situations. Few hours later both of them were up and kicking like usual. Angel is actually traumatized by his situation and therefore it’s easier for me to feel awful for him
When was Micheal harrased?!
even if i wasn't a fan or didn't agree with Viv, going out of your way and wasting money just to have a "hey i hate this show so much that im actually going to print it on paper how much i hate this show and get the actors of the show to sign it, im such a badass" gotcha moment is genuinely stupid
It was 50$ for an auto too TOT
@Lilliepup he did all that to get 200 likes on twt... honestly the fandom never shouldve interacted w this guy, it gave him more platform than anything smh...
It pisses me that I didn't do anything when I saw her. I hadn't seen the video but I DEFINITELY saw the cutout and immediately saw that as a red flag. I was CONSIDERING watching it but that went out the window now-
@Lilliepup i definitely wouldve gone up to him if i saw him there sigh...
HOW DARE THAT PERSON!! Totally inappropriate and disgusting to coerce Alex Brightman to sign something like that!
And Viv has stood up for actors before, but she's not All-Seeing, she can't catch all the nasty hate. People need to back off and keep their nasty opinions to themselves!!!
@@Livvy5411 Preach!!!
Yeah, that’s why I’ve been saying she can’t know or talk about every single thing that’s happening in the fanbase that’s unrealistic
I can guarantee you that Alex was there because he wanted to and not because limus forced him with a gun
@Steakeater400 he was there willingly for signatures, yes, but bringing somethinglike that to make him sign it cause you paid for it is a dick move.
@@Steakeater400 yes, the point was he was basically tricked into signing something so disgusting. Not that he was signing against his will, that's what he was there to do. It was just WHAT he unknowingly signed. That's the issue.
Holy shit people will do anything but fill out a job application 💀
if it isnt blitzo4413 speaking..
@duwi8407 If it isn't some mf who keeps talking in this comment section. I see your comments and replies. Literally proving my point
Let’s not because Vivziepop is NOT a good person and has done weird things in the past.
This behavior from Limus is really really weird. I've seen that video and it's a very serious topic. They should've known better and had boundaries if they we're gonna talk about fucking ABUSE. Who does she think she is to parade around like an idiot and break boundaries presenting themselves as "holier than thou" because they have criticism about Angel Dust's abuse???
Preach!
So true, talks about abuse but abuses a random guy who had nothing to do with it
@santiagotilve1025
Only thing I have to say to that is that Limus didn't abuse Alex. However, she did HARASS him. There is a difference. However, they can overlap in some cases but this isn't one of those cases.
@@Mothman_The_Moth yeah you are right sorry, like i meant to say that but its still kinda abusse when you manipulate someone to do something they wouldnt have done normally, he put that poor actor in a very hard position. Like if this is from amazon prime he might get fired over this
@@Mothman_The_MothI read it as more "abuses the kindess of this person" or "abuses the situation where they are working" yes, it is more harassment but as a service worker who has been trapped in these uncomfortable situations and as an abuse victim, it can feel very similar.
God, Vivzie UA-cam haters are terrifying. I can't with their crazy and obsessive conduct. Like be critical, as much as you want, but leave that woman and her team alone. Stop making it your mission to incite this level of hatred.
Did you watch the video? He wasnt a hater. Only a person trying to speak out about the flaws.
I mean, hating viziepop is completely valid since she's a gross person but I def think the person overstepped their boundaries 😭 (considering viziepop is profic and defended her storyboard writer for having a r3pe kink when they weren't even a victim)
Honestly the setting for the show is accurate considering the fanbase lives in constant hell and mostly just wants to watch the show and do neat stuff with it in peace.
I’m getting really tired of these controversies it’s just making it overwhelming and sucking the fun out of watching these shows (and I love hazbin hotel and helluva boss)
Me too and I don't want the fun ruined by toxic fans/haters!
Honestly though, if you stay off of twitter and dont watch channels like this that report on the twitter drama, you're not likely to know it's happening. Put yourself first if it's actually getting in the way of something you enjoy.
Wow the absolute audacity to use Michael's situation as a way to defend yourself for shitty behavior.
I'm pretty sure it's common sense that Viv wouldn't support Michael being harassed either? Like wow how disgusting.
Have your opinion or whatever but don't put the actors into this.
Shoot.
Micheal is the VA of the guy/character she/they was defending!? That's weird/ironic.
Angel is the character they think is a really bad stereotype.
Do they blame the actors?
@HelloHamburger Weird amount of them do. They really need to stop doing this at conventions.
Yes Viv would go: Well since you cosplayed the character with best style who happens to be a r*pist you're probably a r*pist too ❤❤❤
@@snakesareamazing when did that happen? Can you send me a source? Or is this just hearsay? Was it maybe because of a contract with Amazon? I mean the HH pilot got taken down for a short period of time due to copyright.
@@snakesareamazingpretty sure that was because of A24 owning the rights to those characters at that point.
When I watched the video for the first time I did agree on some of the things he said but going to a convention wasting your money to go there and to get mad on the VA even though the VA doesn't have full control on what happens in the story
I understand that you dislike the show but letting your anger on a VA is just stupid
Agreed.
Like I love the show. I even think that they handled Angel well (especially in the context of Viv and I being the same age) because there are lot of us who know more than one person who has gone through something and then acts like Angel.
I’m radio deer trash. Die hard. What does the hatedom try to do? Compare Alastor and Val via Husk and Angel. … by completely forgetting that Husk will go back to being an Overlord who owned souls and chose to gamble away his own on a risk due to his own vice/Cardinal Sin.
Angel _never_ had that kind of power to potentially stand toe to toe against Val. Which makes me bitterly amused because it’s almost like the people hating on Hazbin don’t have an understanding of ab^s^ and power dynamics because they are stuck in an echo chamber.
I also have some problems with the show (purely world building) but I’m not going to hold animators and theater majors to my _history degree_ standards. Because, A) I will make my self nuts, and B) it’s not fair to shove that on to them. Do they need to do better research? Yup. 100%. Is that my business? No. Not unless I start seriously making content that is me proving I know what I’m doing and why the powers and such (particularly Alastor and Vox) don’t make a lick of sense from how technology actually evolved side by side. Which isn’t me hating at all, I just see a handful of things that need to be accounted for in future _or_ explained away by character work.
Also wearing that sign around the convention with the video's thumbnail is absolutely attention-seeking behavior.
I've been to conventions. Limus spent was is likely serveal hundreds of dollars just to be an attention-whore. At that point you need to seek professional help. And that statement is not a joke or a insult. This behavior is geninuely fucking disturbing and she needs actual help. No sane person acts this delusional.
Can't believe I used to be sympathetic to them.
She
@@Crisjola not to mention you seriously need to do research or need to actively be involved in the fandom to understand a bunch of things that someone who just watches the show would not understand like there’s like one throwaway line that shows sinners can respawn but that’s not good enough explanation how that work the only reason I know about is because of this UA-cam channel explaining a lot of the Lore and world building
Making a hate video is one thing but crossing boundaries with voice actors is not ok “limus”
She made a hate video and walked around a convention just to get a voice actor from the show to sign it, for... What reason, exactly? Was it supposed to be a power move, or something? Because it's just pathetic.
So she can say ‘see, even the voice actor agrees with me”
No! Not Alex Brightman too! These dramas at conventions have gone too far already! Heck, these dramas are taken too far in general!😰
Ikr!!!!
@@stormmakesrobinson2191😔😔😔😔😔😔😔
We can't know what he actually thinks until he actually says something about it. I sure as shit am not taking the word of someone with a clear bias and motive who paid Alex to do something.
I agree! 😰
So that's why because vivzie accidentally tell kids to go convention due inappropriate cartoon fandom show.
I hate that their stance is “how not to write an SA survivor.” When there is no black and white representation of a SA survivor. Some people who suffer SA would do exactly what Angel does and that’s to be overly sexual and suffer from substance abuse. They feel being more sexual themselves gives them that power back. Some people end up LIKING to be choked during intimate moments because it gives them that power back to choose to be chocked and it not be forced on them. Some lean more into it to have a sense of gaining that control back while others may completely avoid it and never want to be intimate again. There is no RIGHT WAY to write someone who has suffered SA because everyone experiences it differently and reacts differently.
I feel like they wanted Angel to be a perfect victim what even is a perfect victim
I feel bad for Alex Brightman having to deal with this situation
The hatedom is genuinely more embarrassing than the fans who just genuinely like the show.
Like, I can’t even express fully how stupid it is to hear such bizarre statements come out of people’s mouths regarding all this.
Having problems with a show is one thing (we all have legitimate complaints about shows we otherwise like) but these kinds of stunts don’t help the fandom at all. If anything, they piss off a lot more people who feel like these guys are acting entitled over a show that they VERY likely have never worked on, and even then it’s stupid to do something like this.
At this point, people are reallyyyy going too far. It's fine to not like the show and to make a video as to why, but seriously, there's boundaries for a reason, and people need to learn to respect them. They make the show for people to enjoy it, not so people can get harassed.
Y'all are like Twitter was when limus posted the video
@@CallieA3 agreed. The toxicity f this fandom takes it way too far
@@Steakeater400 didn’t…didn’t both sides send death threats to each other? (Idk really, i’ve seen it from both sides as a fan of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel and i half-agree, it’s very disgusting, a lot of the fandoms i’m in do this and i’m now ashamed to be a part of any fandom in general. I’m just really glad i don’t have Twitter, that sounds like a hellhole.)
Fun fact btw, Alex brightman doesn’t just voice sir pentious but also Adam, as well as fizzarolli in helluva boss
this is the "sign my petition" meme all over again to try and cancel the creator and the actors
Bro, what did the poor VA's do? Why do they keep getting put on the spot about this stuff?
Letting out your frustration on another person who wasn’t involved with your problems is pure stupidity.
I watched the original video that the UA-camr printed out and I could understand his points but this definitely crossed a line as obviously we have no proof that Alex said he agreed with the video and the signature means nothing as VAs are PAID to sigh stuff all the time. Having Alex sign it then say he agreed with it is defamation on some part and down right disrespectful to Alex as a person because the UA-camr obviously is just using the fact that Alex is well known to be like “Ya I got one of the VAs to sign this photo basically saying that he hates the show” in the video that this who this is about the guy even said that he’s been abused and found Angel disrespectful to what he went through and that’s valid but then going out and basically manipulating someone who had no idea what your intentions are is just wrong. (I hate long comments so I’m sorry for the rant but this genuinely bugs me)
You're not the only one. First time I saw that video I spent three hours writing and rewriting a response because I wanted to be respectful and not angry. When I got it to be respectful, I got blocked. I guess you can't tell people they're insulting victims of abuse by saying things like "if you like this character you're liars and were never abused" lol
Yeah, it’s fine if they don’t like the show, it’s all well and good to make videos criticizing the show. But putting actors on the spot like that goes beyond criticism into harassment territory
Oh yeesh poor Alex gid this makes me so uncomfortable, the secondhand mortification is killing me I’m dying
People really need to get a life, like, why would they think that was ok to do? Make a well beloved VA sign some stuff to feel justified in their criticisms??? Its like Viv said, people can have their opinions and criticize, but for the love of god, dont put someone in an uncomfortable position over it. This is why the fandom gets crapped on, cause of stupid people doing stupid stuff like this. We cant enjoy anything anymore
Edit: Back in my day, we did something called, "change the channel". People need to start doing that and change the videos/media they dont like seeing. Bunch of idiots
I remember in your Discord me and Artsygum were discussing it and I just hope that Limus learns from this and becomes a better person
This type of hazbin hotel haters dont learn. Some simply dont like the show but the ones that say "vivizie is evil for representing SA this way" have no cure
I really think "learning" from it is going to require a medication and therapy because what healthy, well adjusted brain thinks that's alright?
@@Chaoticgames-08 they won't learn because they don't want to learn. They want to be like this.
The funny part is if Alex didn’t sign it and said this makes them uncomfortable and this is inappropriate behavior that same people trying to act like they have the moral high ground would of said how Alex is a rude for not signing it and how they are comfortable with the stuff I’m Hazbin hotel but signing that poster was too fair. Like what did they want to happen? Did they want Alex to pull a prime Mike Tyson and knock them out unconscious spit on them and say how inappropriate it is for a convection and how she burn is fire? It’s easier for the actor to sign anything since they either don’t know or to avoid any further awkward conversation
why am I not surprised it's twitter i'm glad I left it btw I hate hearing about some sort of drama with the show it's like everyone wants attention it's really annoying and I feel bad for everyone i'm disgusted
Bro Same 😭
Poor Alex dude...he's my favourite VA of all the cast and he was just doing his job! He doesn't deserve any kind of drama, amd Vivienne has a point. However I didn't know about the Michael Kovach thing...wow. It's impressive how the fact that when a series is so good the fandom is more toxic...it's hard sometimes to be part of the fandom of your favourite series when the toxic part of the fandom is...well like...this. The good part of this fandom is amazing though
At this point, these aren’t even controversies.
They’re just excuses to make unnecessary drama.
I get the term, “haters gonna hate”, but this is just bizarre, considering the amount of these so called “controversies” that keep showing up time and time again for Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel.🙄
Limus is a notorious Vivziepop hater. I wouldn't be surprised if they were to pull another stupid stunt like this in the future.
Alex Brightman isn't an idiot. He just wanted to be a good sport and do people a favor even when they don't like his work.
And if someone says they're uncomfortable with an action, then that's the end of the discussion, you just apologize and don't do it. Everything else is simply uncivilized.
Oh wow that is really low. Bringing up past controversies is a low blow, and from what I know Alex isn't even active on platforms like twitter
This is limus showing their true colors of being a dark side to them a petty side.
What limus did makes them no better than what they say about the Michael kovach and Valentino costplayers situation.
Limus fueling and adding to the hazbin hotel hate.
And those last 3 post are petty argument.
And that hazbin hotel won't improve with Vivziepop in charge.
Limus, she is the reason why it exists.
Is like telling alex Hirsch to leave his own project of gravity falls, he literally created the idea and world-building for it. And he practically knows what to add to the show because he made it in his own image and creation.
And the idea for gravity falls wouldn't exist.
Vivziepop is the reason for why hazbin hotel exist for you to hate limus.
I feel like now it's never about the angel dust SA but for petty reasons.
@@aliciahuang6329 I knew I couldn’t trust Limus when I saw her video on Angel for the first time.
People, it's only January. Why the fuck are we suddenly getting reasons to be embarrassed of being a part of the fandom ten days in???
Because fandoms and hatedoms suck, especially if they’re ones of cartoons and indie games.
One way to get embarrassed:
To say that angel is bad writing of a victim of abuse is idiotic. As someone who's known people in situations of this kind of abuse the destructive way he acts is 100% something that can occur when someone is abused that way, and for people saying "Why does he still enjoy being a sex worker" HE DOESNT he's said a few times that he's forced to due to the contract and in the song poison he mentions how he hates it and how he feels numb to things now not to mention bro is put under an aphrodisiac aka Val's saliva all the time! If you have ever watched any documentary on people being kidnapped and drugged over and over to stay easy to control they become numbed to most things and live life in a daze even after getting free and rehabbed from the drugs. This dude is just hating to hate what a loser
There isn’t really a right way to right of victim of abuse because a lot of victims have different experiences
@sailorstar3148 I agree 100% I was simply advocating for the specific character but honestly anyone can react differently to any kind of situation
Limus is also one of those that say "Poison" glorifies abuse and "Loser Baby" is about quit whining like a little bitch. Classic case of "I only see/hear what I want to see/hear".
A lot of these people debate on whether or not this character is relatable to them. I bet they say it’s not a good token rape victim literally because most of them weren’t even sex workers. I will also say that for people praising angel and literally thinking that they are the character. Literally you were not forced into sex work and all of a sudden, you’re watching a stupid show about cartoon demons.
@@rawumber6740 yeah its sad and it belittles other people's situations it makes me nautious.
Bro there’s drama over EVERY. LITTLE. THING. i swear
This person seems to be an attention seeker and hyper critical of Vivzie for things outside of her control.
Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Cosplay does not, nor will it ever equal consent. I can't say whether or not Vivziepop has said anything about what happened to Michael at conventions but what I can say is that she has absolutely no control over what other people say and do and it's pretty asinine to go putting words in someone's mouth like speaking for Alex or saying that Vivzie openly did nothing when you can't know the full story as you've never ask.
Frankly I think it's pretty shitty to put someone on the spot or speak for them, especially when you've paid them to do something.
We can't know what Alex actually thinks about the situation until he actually comes out and says something about it. Until then I can't really speak on the matter as it's a patchwork puzzle that people are actively taking pieces from and are touting them around as the full picture when it's only a piece. Especially when someone has a very clear bias.
Shaking my head 🤦🏻♀️
Vivziepop haters are more obsessed with her shows than the fans
I’m convince both the hatedom and fandom are festering piles of shit if the assault of micheal kovack is true.
@@rawumber6740 absolutely right. Michael Kovach's tweets about it are still up so I think it's real.
@@Darostelijaa plus, you’ll never see a fandom that doesn’t have a bad side to it. You can’t be an anime fan and act high and mighty on furries because of one bad actor. It’s the same way with the hatedom complaining about fandom and vise versa.
Viziepop is profic and defended her storyboard writer who has a r3pe kink when they weren't even a victim of SA and confirmed that so I dont really see why we shouldn't hate her, dont agree with what the person did though
@ There's a nothing wrong with hating Vivziepop and bringing to light all the awful things they've done or condoned. Obsessively hating her and the entire fandom can be a problem though, since it causes trouble to unrelated people and often even distracts from the real issues.
It's the same thing with other media with problematic creators (for example Harry Potter). Educating people is very much possible and even encouraged, but ultimately no one can decide what another person likes or what content they consume. There's no point in turning hate into a spectacle.
That they make themselves a victim by claiming it was just 'getting a signature' is the most deranged part that I can be sure of, since they were entirely deceptive about what it was actually for. 🤦♂️😠
Some people are crazy to hustle the actors that's just doing their job leave them alone this is really stupid
The video they made was already uncomfortable. Gatekeeping abuse is so strange and gross. But this is something else. Poor Alex and Viv.
In the fact that people were defending this crap is insane
Yeah the big issue in having Alex sign the poster is that it makes it seem that Alex supports the video, something that might not be true
The thing was you payed the person BEFORE Alex to get something signed, so I don't think Alex could've said no regardless.
@@Lilliepup No I believe actors have the discretion to refuse to sign stuff. Especially when it's unofficial merch which yes that sign was unofficial merch
I honestly hate what Limus did and I hope they get their post taken down permanently. They don’t deserve forgiveness for this.
I honestly feel like this was made in such a way where the voice actor felt like he had to sign it or otherwise they would turn it against the voice actor being like "oh so you agree with with viv??" And try and make him look like a bad guy
This person probably would’ve made a video calling Brightman a ped0 or something if he didn’t sign it. She’s clearly the spiteful type if she’s willing to spend money on such a dumb stunt
At this point, I'm genuinely curious if the HB/HH antis really do outnumber the actual fans or if's just a handful of loud trolls that have nothing but time on their hands?
The second. The negative comments are always louder than the positive ones, especially when they're in minority.
Yeah… it is pretty weird to do that
I swear ( even despite my profile being named after one of the characters from ) the show is basically just becoming the yandere simulator of indie animation at least in terms of causing and attracting drama and it seems it can't stop being a magnet for it
guess it goes to show toxicity attracts
Na some people make up shit, i still find people who actually think vivzie is zionist because of the lies of twitter
If you don’t like the show, simply don’t watch it. Don’t bother the people who do enjoy it, or the people who create it. It’s not hard. Yet this bs happens in every fandom.
I agree with Viv. I've met with Alex before for a signing. As well as Blake. They have *a lot* of people coming in to see him.
There's no doubt in my mind he was probably preoccupied with talking with others and trying to form a connection than what he was actually signing.
Thank god i was so worried when i read Alex Brightman and drama in the same sentence. Love that man
Hazbin Hotel fans are constantly involved in drama. Don't involve the actors, they don't make the show and are not responsible.
Thats the most insane ludicrous thing I've ever witnessed, I still can't believe people go after the fan when most like to keep to themselves and people who hate take this way to damn far, really disgusting behaviour and I really hope they can get help or something became that is not a normal or sane thing to do
If he thinks he’s so good at pulling apart trauma I wanna see a psychology degree because anyone can say “that doesn’t look like trauma” but a professional can say “that isn’t trauma here’s why”
*she
Why people like that guy exist? If you don't like the show then move on!! Criticize it and go on with your life is too much to ask? Ships wars are one thing but harass the voice actors is way too much, this needs to stop 🛑.
No depiction of abuse will be 'perfect' because we all experience the trauma of abuse differently. I personally relate very heavily to Angel Dust due to an explicit childhood. But others with my experience might not. Regardless, tearing fans down is never the answer.
Bro wants Viv to get the same treatment as Notch, the creator of Minecraft.
Thanks local news reporter for the info!:D
Wow, someone hating hazbin hotel and crying about it on twitter, what a surprise
The show is not my most favorite piece of media on the planet. I definitely can say I like it a fair amount and still very much enjoy watching it, as well as recognize that it isn't perfect.
it is one of my friends favorite things ever. she has all the merch, talks about it very frequently and loves every little thing about the show. though we like the show to different degrees, we still talk about it in a friendly manner. I'm not going to say that she's stupid for liking something.
it absolutely discuss me how people are so willing to put others down on the internet just for having interests. you wouldn't do that to your friend, right? Just please for goodness sake, LET THE SHOW EXIST! stop trampling on people's success and using hate to get attention!
...how did that get so long?
for clarification: I understand the 'you' phrasing I used might seam accusatory, it's not. I'm just ranting :)
Why am I not surprised that Limus is back with more crap?
Already literally having no argument, other than "I was victim of SA thus I can speak for everyone and say this is offensive, and if you aren't offended you're liars and your abuse never happened", which is NOT an argument, but just climbing mirrors and projecting. Now they're going to harass the voice actors and the creator too?
And also, they're not a fan. Their "critique" is 20 minutes of whining about nonsense, completely made up stuff, and different variants of "I hate this show", and by their own admission in that same video, watched the first half of the season with very little attention, and never even watched the second half. But now that someone calls you out, "uuuuh the creator is bullying fans we we we".
No, the fandom isn't sick. Limus just has a hate boner problem. Because everyone loves Angel Dust, wether are abuse victims, SA victims, LGBT, even cis straight men who were never abused. He's literally the most popular character, second only to Alastor.
This person alone has an issue with it, and has been trying to rally hate marches for a while now, based on... their personal perception of a fictional character.
Does that make sense?
No. It doesn't. It's dumb.
You're never going to be a paladin of acceptance by trying to rise a march of intolerance. But keep telling SA victims that see themselves in Angel Dust that they're liars and they were never abused, I guess. I'm sure that'll earn you plenty of Charisma points.
I think the word you should replace argument with is excuse and that's what limus is using.
@@nickcooper7714Fair enough. I just typed quickly because that person already angers me like crazy thanks to that ridiculous video, and now with this I just lost it.
@@androidps1440 Thanks you, "amigo", for your short asinine non-contribution. In typical fashion of hater, you attack me for "my" fandom, for something done by someone who's not me and isn't even part of the fandom. Thanks for the waste of time, have a good day.
@@androidps1440No, thank you, "amigo", for this asinine non-contribution typical of an internet Neanderthal-esque cave. You missed a couple things, though:
1) This isn't "my" fandom. I didn't start it, and even if I did I wouldn't own it. A fandom is not something you possess, that's just not how things go. It's like saying Martin Luther King owned the civil rights movement; see how little sense it makes?
2) The individual who started this attention-seeking mess isn't a fan, but a self-proclamed "proud hater". You're trying to use an act of the hatedom to attack the fandom as if the fandom did it. Did you pay any attention? Somehow I doubt.
So long, and thanks for the forgettable discussion.
@@androidps1440 No, thank you, "amigo", for this asinine non-contribution typical of an internet Neanderthal-esque cave. You missed a couple things, though:
1) This isn't "my" fandom. I didn't start it, and even if I did I wouldn't own it. A fandom is not something you possess, that's just not how things go. It's like saying Martin Luther King owned the civil rights movement; see how little sense it makes?
2) The individual who started this attention-seeking mess isn't a fan, but a self-proclamed "proud hater". You're trying to use an act of the hatedom to attack the fandom as if the fandom did it. Did you pay any attention? Somehow I doubt.
So long, and thanks for the forgettable discussion.
yk what i dislike abt her accusation viv only draws the line at a signature?
the fact that they compared it to michael kovak's being harassed by a valentino cosplayer- and michael had explicitly mentioned in his tweet about it that he hadn't gotten security involved, and didn't want to make things a big deal. PLUS- viv isn't some omnipresent god? she can't possibly know every single situation going on with the fanbase, even stuff that may surround her actors?
That's what I was thinking! I don't want to speak for him, but I feel like if I was in his position there, I'd prefer to say something for myself if anything would be said at all, rather than having my boss do it for me
Also not saying that'd *always* be the case, but it makes sense as a reason for why she didn't make a statement
@ yeah! AND- he said it was his first con as angel dust's actor. so this was back in what, 2022 at the latest? he only posted about it in 2024 though. he couldve wanted it to stay out of the public eye, and maybe viv provided support that we just didnt see. because theyre both still human beings with their own private lives.
Here we go again.. 😞
Criticisms are fine. I love both Hazbin and Helluva, but I also have some criticisms as well. I think that criticism is necessary for things to get better. However, this seems a bit too far… like, why not put that same energy into something that you love. Congratulations, you were seeking attention and you got it, now what?
They privated their twitter and it looks like they’re deleting comments from their video from people calling them out. Absolute loser behavior tbh.
ITS BARELY 2 WEEKS INTO THE NEW YEAR, AND THERE IS ALREADY NEW DRAMA, IM SOBBING.
Does this person not understand that a lot of people who have been through what Angel Dust has, usually internally use their trauma as a kink? Usually it's subconsciously. But for the victim its having control over their trauma.
But honestly its a weird take to force someone to sign the paper they're carrying around to lie about that.
I think the youtuber needs to let it go
Limus thinking her experience is the ONLY experience says a lot about her....
I'm a survivor too, and I and another survivor I was close with had the wildest sloot phases akin to Angel dust, right down to the drvgs. It's like a when life gives you lemons mentality, if you're going to be treated like a piece of meat you'll convince yourself you enjoy it to fool yourself into thinking you've some sense of control, that it's your choice....
Limus needs to step outside of their own little bubble
From a therapists point of view, i think angle was portrayed as a victim of sexual perfectly because most victims of it go into psychosis where they use sex or drugs to get out of it and then when they realise that its not the way to go they blaim themselves and say they can't be fixed which is what angel was going through in season 1
ok so i saw this on my tl and tbh i was rooting for them in the past but now that they came up w/this sorta behavior..is just like...man, are you even defending your opinion anymore??? juat doing this shit to strike your ego bro. but yeah they hate vivziepop & try to get bait clicks
Friend of mine who went through thr whole "guys can't be SA'd" bs due his partner years ago.
Angel Dust's song really spoke to him about the crap he went through being stuck in an abusive relationship. The highs are toxic but leaving your craving them during the lows.
Not everyone's SA experience is the same, and someone else's experience and validation does not invalidate someone else's just because you don't experience trauma the same way
Imagine being Alex in that situation though. One moment you’re having a laugh and taking selfies with fans, the next you see a guy holding a land yard of his YT thumbnail like a doomsday prepper and goes up to you like.
“The show you’re starring in is bad and I will be a justice leader btw autograph my review please!” Shameless self promotion and
Hey I was at that convention not to long ago and I was in the same line as that person waiting for a signature from Alex. I do feel bad for him though that he had to sign something like that!
@@soulfur8423 It's always fun finding other people who went to that convention online. I saw her in line too TOT
@Lilliepup Ay that's dope! Maybe we would have saw each other at the time! Though despite the drama I hope your time there was awesome!
Originally, I felt bad for Limus, I thought he was way too harassed for his opinion. However he shouldn’t have brought Alex Brightman into it. Like he has nothing to do with this and probably had no choice other than to sign it. It just feels so wrong to exploit a system ment for fans for some petty UA-cam drama
limus is actually a girl apparently
but yeah, agreed
she had every right to criticize the show initially but this took it way too far
nah I saw the vid awhile ago. I think the points were valid, but I didn't agree with them. Quite the opposite actually. But this behavior is insane. If you don't care about Hazbin, then don't care, but this is obsessive
My take is quite simple. It was frankly a rude thing to do. They made the youtube video, nuff said. The subsequent rant on social media only makes them look childish, and a bit petty. The way they reacted was wrong, the actions they took were wrong (outside of making the video, which i havent watched, so cant critique). In other words, they need to sit down, calm down, and get off twitter.
As someone who knows a guy who has had a very similar experience to Angel Dust I hated that video.
Claiming all victims go through the same experience and invalidating my friends experience as a victim? I honestly think Angel dust is a great example of abuse and his scenes were very hard to watch