My interpretation would be that Acteon was punished because he let his desires control him, and those desires just as you said derailed/ruined his life. He overdid hunting, and just for the fun of it killed innocent animals, and as he saw a naked woman (the goddess Diana) he didn't turn away, cover his eyes, he let himself stare at her as he let his desires control him. In ancient Greece, just as for example in India, moderation was considered one of the highest virtues. They also considered desires to be false excessive impulses. They called these desires pathos, and some philosophers thought that to live a virtuous life we have to stop these desires (apathia), while others, for example Aristotle thought that we only need to control them. And what is interesting is that they also used the same vocabulary to write down desires as what they used for illnesses. Aristotle's theory about living a virtuous life is also connects to this subject. He thought that all living beings have an own function in life that only they can do. He called this ergon, and for humans this is thinking, using our intellect. And my interpretation is that when we let our desires take hold of us, then we are not fully able to use our intellect, therefore we are derailed from our function and progress in life. For me this was the first interpretation that came to mind. I hope what I wrote can be understood, and that I used the right words. I haven't written in English in a while.
Very well thought out video. While I love reading about Greek myths I definitely hadn't put as much thought into this one as I should. Thank you for the insight.
I love Greek mythology and it helps to hear a quick synopsis before indulging into the readings.Thank you for this. I had to play it twice because you speak so fast lol.
Let's get real. Let's break it down. First of all Actaeon was a very young boy when he 'intruded'. Secondly, the 'Goddess' is his mother. Props if you got that right. This myth describes a dire childhood psychological injury, as many myths do, particularly Ovid's Metamorphoses of which this myth is perhaps the most dramatic. Here's another clue. This being Pride month, everyone respecting this month should be aware of and appreciate this myth. I know I do. I am Actaeon. I suffered this injury at age 4 or 5.
I've been a Wiccan since 1987 and we worship Diana as our deity....who represents nature. So to use the story simply points out that as many people go through life minding their own business...they might get cancer. They might have a stroke. All kinds of horrible things for no fault of their own. Its just nature. So we use the story to drive into the initiate how the deity we worship (nature) can sometimes strike you down for no reason that you can understand....because you're a mere human. lol
I always thought of most Metamorphosis stories as being the stories of divine cruelty first and foremost, due to Ovid's own experience with "God-like" Octavian. ... Also, for me the most cruel part of it is that Acteon loses his humanity. Even if Diana did not intend him to be torn apart, the dehumanization part is the cruelest thing here. ... Also, it is bizarre to see this punishment when Diana's brother and father are notorious for "chasing" women. Think about Apollo and Daphne and countless Zeus affairs.
Your comment made me think how Diana „made“ Acteon lose his humanity, by being uncovered. Also, her punishing the hapless mortal, even though her brother and father behave similarly, suggest to me that this was a way she could finally do what she wanted, it was only in her power to punish and stop a mortal, not her family. That she is a virgin goddess when they behave as they do also could be a kind of reproach. I’m new to mythology, so I may well be uninformed, but that’s what your comment got me thinking.
i think, if diana is cruel, it can't be for dehumanizing actaeon. after all, debatably, he dehumanized and objectified diana first, by gawking at her and reducing her to a sexual object in the privacy of her own sacred grove. rather, i think the cruellest thing diana did was take away his voice. the metamorphoses, to me, is mostly a story about stories and the act of storytelling, where the worst thing you can do to someone is to silence them. and the narrative half-heartedly vindicates actaeon. it tells his story for him and lets the readers judge if it was something he deserved to tell.
@@cabbage-soup but Actaeon still had his mind-so he didn’t lose his “voice” per se, it just became animal (other). He still had his human world upstairs-so conceivably (had he lived) couldn’t he have developed his animal voice using his human capacities, couldn’t he have used his hoof to write in the dirt, communicated in inventive ways… perhaps even discover he could understand other animals? Though, that may have been the real curse-to hear the voices of the creatures you’d hunted down for so long, to be hit by all the suffering you were formerly not attuned to. Maybe that would be his salvation tho, to _die_ in light of his truth and become more open to the other..
Ovid's 'Metamorphoses' describe psychological injuries that lead to a condition that starts with 'H' and ends in 'sexual'. Actaeon in particular. Let's see if the youtube censors are alert or not.
I think both the man and the woman fall pray to 'human nature', although Diana is a goddess. It further proves that having a physical human body doesn't excuse you from having feelings such as shame and desire, even if you're immortal. The man is driven by male instinct and lust, whilst she explodes with shame and rage. But I think this is a surface level explanation of the story.
It's a very good point though, how even the divine of people can feel and act with such revenge. Maybe even the fact someone so divine could be made to feel so lowly in the first place. Thanks for the comment, I wasn't sure anyone was interested in this video 😅
These moral dilemmas are everywhere, especially in the context of hearing a vague story. The insight that the revelation of Diana might be vaguely pornographic is interesting if we're imagining storytellers around a campfire, but the fact is the proper analogy is really more like reporting the news of American politics by speaking of the actions of donkeys and elephants - where the gods when they interacted represented regional rites. Robert Graves has it like this about Diana/Artemis: "Actaeon was, it seems, a sacred king of the pre-Hellenic stag cult, torn to pieces at the end of his reign of fifty months, namely half a Great Year - The Nymph properly took her bath after, not before, the murder. There are numerous parallels to this ritual custom in Irish and Welsh myth, and as late as the first century AD a man dressed in a stag’s skin was periodically chased and killed on the Arcadian Mount Lycaeum" -- It is a motif describing a set of rituals, probably gleaned vaguely from ancient stories by the classical Greeks who had as much indifference and incredulity as a modern person would, to understanding it as such. These actions ritually taken indicated an orientation, just as modern education does, toward particular natural elements, for instance the purity of water and the sources of meat. When cultures are young and wild they just attach to whatever is around them, they love them, they bring their image (and skins) into their lives as decoration and song and rituals such as those being described in this myth. The main moral question here - for them - was not whether is was right to kill deer, but to express gratitude that there were such things as deer.
True. Even interpretation of Diana's look differ coz in most ethnicities inhabiting Ancient Greece she is white when in old Minoan depictions (before Minotaur was killed) her race is black. So we can assume that different cultures of Ancient Greece interpreted the myth differently.
You walk into a glade and see an actual Goddess stark naked chances are you're going to be struck dumb for at least a few seconds and all of those descriptions though taking time to read would realistically have happened in mere seconds! I don't subscribe to the idea he deserved what happened to him just because he didn't immediately look away. - The idea she was punishing him for over-hunting also doesn't work as she specifically punishes him for seeing her naked NOT for hunting......This even though Diana/Artemis is well known for punishing hunters; this story makes no mention of that being her reason for this punishment. - P.S. The story may use Artemis's Roman name and have been written down by a Roman Poet BUT this is a Greek story not a Roman one.
Maybe I am looking too much into this but to me it sounded more of a story of: hey human, you came into the wilderness to hunt so you can eat and that's ok, but you should venture deeper into the wilderness only at your own risk, because mother nature, although beautiful, is wild, it doesn't stand reason. Just as how if you meet a beautiful wolf with her puppies in the depth of the forest and you stand there and marvel at how amazing of a view that is, she won't care what your intentions were, she won't wait to find out, she would destroy you. And you, as a human that once saw a reel on insta about how this one wolf one time protected some lost human, would be tempted to think that maybe you can be as lucky, maybe fate will smile upon you and you will be one of the lucky humans, sufficiently pure of heart that the wolf will recognise a kindred spirit in you, but you would be wrong, because nature is wild, it's about survival and it's like Russian roulette, you may or may not escape. So it's not a question of what he did wrong, it's just about him being there, in presence of a goddess whom might do as she pleases since she definitely has the upper hand. And then the part about him being turned into a stag and devoured by his own dogs and most importantly not being able to speak anymore and explain himself ...maybe it's a way of saying that the human spending enough time far away from civilisation will have been symbolically exiled from the civilised world upon return, maybe called a wildling, a barbarian etc. because his wild ways will appear strange to the civilised humans and to their domesticated dogs. And here, see, we also have the reverse of what happened in the forest: this guy turned into a stag was just standing there when he was attacked by the dogs, he was made into a marvellous wild creature by this goddess, and ripped to shreds by his own equals who did not recognise him anymore because he did not look like one of them. I'm probably not great at explaining all this, but I hope it makes some sense. There are stories in the Romanian folklore (and I imagine in other countries too) about faeries who come out at night this one day of the year and bless the crops and no mortals should stumble upon them because only the sight of their beauty would turn them mute or make them lose their mind, and this Diana story reminded me of those stories.
@@jasonjenkins812 Not sure if this will get past the censors but here goes. Those dogs in the Actaeon myth? They represent the normal male animal instinct to pursue the female object. When the Goddess (child Actaeon's mother) blasts him for looking at her naked body she plants a giant 'NO!' in his young subconscious mind. When it comes time (after maturity) for his dogs to sniff out and hunt down a woman they can't. So what do they do? They turn inward and attack him. Can you guess what that means? Hint. Think of a word that starts with the letter 'H'. Think 'Pride Month' while you are at it. See now how his animal nature has been interfered with and turned around? Sure you do. BTW, it's certainly no laughing matter.
The Dictionary of Symbols is a great reference. However, it correlates the stag “horns” to the masculine (page 151). Source: ia801306.us.archive.org/9/items/DictionaryOfSymbols/Dictionary%20of%20Symbols.pdf
Diana in the myth felt mercy for Aceton and wanted to bring him back his original form. She never felt sorry for men who wanted to turn women into their toys. She always turned those into hares. Deer form suggest smth Aceton wasn't ausidious in love, he wasn't mature enough to form a stable relationship coz he belived love is a bliss.
What is the source by Ovid that mentions all the dog names? I downloaded the Metamorphoses but the myth is short in that version and no dog names at all. I looked at the Wiki entry for the myth and there is a table of dog names and Ovid mentions 22 or 27 names (I guess different sources). 27 is a lunar number and 22 is a little trickier. The "bitch" names are 13 and that is more of a solar number. Anyway, I'd like to read the original that lists all the names.
Does Diana have the power to do lesser tempestuous damage? The transformation into a wild forest mammal may be her only recourse and rather automatic as she is most familiar with the beast and holds Stags in high majestic regard or that the spell was determined by the victim's own temperament. Diana's portrayal is sexist and unbalanced, as she may have been able to read his thoughts and mirrored the lust back upon Actaeon, in displaying his true nature. In meting out his punishment for being obtrusive, Actaeon's fate is open for debate and further insights should be developed. The portrayal of Diana's reasoning is stagnating from a women's perspective. In the defense of a violated woman and their sacred dignity, men are not able to reflect properly on the severity of the injustice. The limited inherit treasures that women possess, singing, dancing, motherhood, and beauty are their only gifts of value. Yes, developed skills in cooking, arts, and other secondary skills are of minor value compared to their natural gifts and the morals of the period should be framed to further the understanding of the story. We are accustomed to seeing naked beauty today, however, the ancient norms did not tolerate acts of voyeurism on a Goddess and I would dare say a male God would have struck him dead given the same circumstances.
Actaeon was intrusive, not obtrusive. An intrusive, very young boy, four or five years old. Diana is, of course, his mother. "Cruel and chaste' is how Joseph Campbell rightly describes her. No the punishment certainly did not fit the crime. Actaeon was innocent. I was innocent. When will you all understand the real meaning of this story?
@@matthewfoster2684 See my other replies. I was four or five when I saw my (Goddess) mother naked. She reacted very harshly screaming repeatedly to 'GET OUT' !!!! I'd have to wait years for that time bomb to go off.
Aren't the stories of old always make bad endings hence Greek ending, but beside having a bad ending back then 35 was considered old like grampa old. Life was short, God's crushed men like bugs.
dude, i could just listen to an hour-long podcast of you interpreting ancient myths, this is like straight up really interesting
That's really nice to hear, I was never sure what people thought of this video, so thankyou
My interpretation would be that Acteon was punished because he let his desires control him, and those desires just as you said derailed/ruined his life. He overdid hunting, and just for the fun of it killed innocent animals, and as he saw a naked woman (the goddess Diana) he didn't turn away, cover his eyes, he let himself stare at her as he let his desires control him. In ancient Greece, just as for example in India, moderation was considered one of the highest virtues. They also considered desires to be false excessive impulses. They called these desires pathos, and some philosophers thought that to live a virtuous life we have to stop these desires (apathia), while others, for example Aristotle thought that we only need to control them. And what is interesting is that they also used the same vocabulary to write down desires as what they used for illnesses.
Aristotle's theory about living a virtuous life is also connects to this subject. He thought that all living beings have an own function in life that only they can do. He called this ergon, and for humans this is thinking, using our intellect. And my interpretation is that when we let our desires take hold of us, then we are not fully able to use our intellect, therefore we are derailed from our function and progress in life. For me this was the first interpretation that came to mind.
I hope what I wrote can be understood, and that I used the right words. I haven't written in English in a while.
Your English looks perfect to me, that was an insightful comment
Nope. Think of an innocent young boy enduring a nasty, life changing trauma. It is tragic.
He should have sent his dogs to prank Artemis first. 😂
Very well thought out video. While I love reading about Greek myths I definitely hadn't put as much thought into this one as I should. Thank you for the insight.
I love Greek mythology and it helps to hear a quick synopsis before indulging into the readings.Thank you for this. I had to play it twice because you speak so fast lol.
Thanks for this video, it poses some interesting questions, and helps me see this from a different angle.
Let's get real. Let's break it down. First of all Actaeon was a very young boy when he 'intruded'. Secondly, the 'Goddess' is his mother. Props if you got that right. This myth describes a dire childhood psychological injury, as many myths do, particularly Ovid's Metamorphoses of which this myth is perhaps the most dramatic. Here's another clue. This being Pride month, everyone respecting this month should be aware of and appreciate this myth. I know I do. I am Actaeon. I suffered this injury at age 4 or 5.
Really interesting video, really liked it!
I've been a Wiccan since 1987 and we worship Diana as our deity....who represents nature. So to use the story simply points out that as many people go through life minding their own business...they might get cancer. They might have a stroke. All kinds of horrible things for no fault of their own. Its just nature. So we use the story to drive into the initiate how the deity we worship (nature) can sometimes strike you down for no reason that you can understand....because you're a mere human. lol
I always thought of most Metamorphosis stories as being the stories of divine cruelty first and foremost, due to Ovid's own experience with "God-like" Octavian.
...
Also, for me the most cruel part of it is that Acteon loses his humanity. Even if Diana did not intend him to be torn apart, the dehumanization part is the cruelest thing here.
...
Also, it is bizarre to see this punishment when Diana's brother and father are notorious for "chasing" women. Think about Apollo and Daphne and countless Zeus affairs.
You make a very good point. I hadn't actually thought of them in the context of Ovid's treatment
Your comment made me think how Diana „made“ Acteon lose his humanity, by being uncovered.
Also, her punishing the hapless mortal, even though her brother and father behave similarly, suggest to me that this was a way she could finally do what she wanted, it was only in her power to punish and stop a mortal, not her family. That she is a virgin goddess when they behave as they do also could be a kind of reproach.
I’m new to mythology, so I may well be uninformed, but that’s what your comment got me thinking.
i think, if diana is cruel, it can't be for dehumanizing actaeon. after all, debatably, he dehumanized and objectified diana first, by gawking at her and reducing her to a sexual object in the privacy of her own sacred grove.
rather, i think the cruellest thing diana did was take away his voice. the metamorphoses, to me, is mostly a story about stories and the act of storytelling, where the worst thing you can do to someone is to silence them. and the narrative half-heartedly vindicates actaeon. it tells his story for him and lets the readers judge if it was something he deserved to tell.
@@cabbage-soup but Actaeon still had his mind-so he didn’t lose his “voice” per se, it just became animal (other). He still had his human world upstairs-so conceivably (had he lived) couldn’t he have developed his animal voice using his human capacities, couldn’t he have used his hoof to write in the dirt, communicated in inventive ways… perhaps even discover he could understand other animals? Though, that may have been the real curse-to hear the voices of the creatures you’d hunted down for so long, to be hit by all the suffering you were formerly not attuned to. Maybe that would be his salvation tho, to _die_ in light of his truth and become more open to the other..
Ovid's 'Metamorphoses' describe psychological injuries that lead to a condition that starts with 'H' and ends in 'sexual'. Actaeon in particular. Let's see if the youtube censors are alert or not.
I think both the man and the woman fall pray to 'human nature', although Diana is a goddess. It further proves that having a physical human body doesn't excuse you from having feelings such as shame and desire, even if you're immortal. The man is driven by male instinct and lust, whilst she explodes with shame and rage. But I think this is a surface level explanation of the story.
It's a very good point though, how even the divine of people can feel and act with such revenge. Maybe even the fact someone so divine could be made to feel so lowly in the first place.
Thanks for the comment, I wasn't sure anyone was interested in this video 😅
@@mylittlethoughttree It caught my eye. I'm studying art and I think greek and roman mythology is key to understanding Renaissance art
Wonderful, thanks so much!
These moral dilemmas are everywhere, especially in the context of hearing a vague story. The insight that the revelation of Diana might be vaguely pornographic is interesting if we're imagining storytellers around a campfire, but the fact is the proper analogy is really more like reporting the news of American politics by speaking of the actions of donkeys and elephants - where the gods when they interacted represented regional rites. Robert Graves has it like this about Diana/Artemis: "Actaeon was, it seems, a sacred king of the pre-Hellenic stag cult, torn to pieces at the end of his reign of fifty months, namely half a Great Year - The Nymph properly took her bath after, not before, the murder. There are numerous parallels to this ritual custom in Irish and Welsh myth, and as late as the first century AD a man dressed in a stag’s skin was periodically chased and killed on the Arcadian Mount Lycaeum" -- It is a motif describing a set of rituals, probably gleaned vaguely from ancient stories by the classical Greeks who had as much indifference and incredulity as a modern person would, to understanding it as such. These actions ritually taken indicated an orientation, just as modern education does, toward particular natural elements, for instance the purity of water and the sources of meat. When cultures are young and wild they just attach to whatever is around them, they love them, they bring their image (and skins) into their lives as decoration and song and rituals such as those being described in this myth. The main moral question here - for them - was not whether is was right to kill deer, but to express gratitude that there were such things as deer.
True. Even interpretation of Diana's look differ coz in most ethnicities inhabiting Ancient Greece she is white when in old Minoan depictions (before Minotaur was killed) her race is black. So we can assume that different cultures of Ancient Greece interpreted the myth differently.
You walk into a glade and see an actual Goddess stark naked chances are you're going to be struck dumb for at least a few seconds and all of those descriptions though taking time to read would realistically have happened in mere seconds!
I don't subscribe to the idea he deserved what happened to him just because he didn't immediately look away.
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The idea she was punishing him for over-hunting also doesn't work as she specifically punishes him for seeing her naked NOT for hunting......This even though Diana/Artemis is well known for punishing hunters; this story makes no mention of that being her reason for this punishment.
-
P.S. The story may use Artemis's Roman name and have been written down by a Roman Poet BUT this is a Greek story not a Roman one.
No, especially since, like me, Actaeon was a four or five year old boy.
Maybe I am looking too much into this but to me it sounded more of a story of: hey human, you came into the wilderness to hunt so you can eat and that's ok, but you should venture deeper into the wilderness only at your own risk, because mother nature, although beautiful, is wild, it doesn't stand reason. Just as how if you meet a beautiful wolf with her puppies in the depth of the forest and you stand there and marvel at how amazing of a view that is, she won't care what your intentions were, she won't wait to find out, she would destroy you. And you, as a human that once saw a reel on insta about how this one wolf one time protected some lost human, would be tempted to think that maybe you can be as lucky, maybe fate will smile upon you and you will be one of the lucky humans, sufficiently pure of heart that the wolf will recognise a kindred spirit in you, but you would be wrong, because nature is wild, it's about survival and it's like Russian roulette, you may or may not escape. So it's not a question of what he did wrong, it's just about him being there, in presence of a goddess whom might do as she pleases since she definitely has the upper hand. And then the part about him being turned into a stag and devoured by his own dogs and most importantly not being able to speak anymore and explain himself ...maybe it's a way of saying that the human spending enough time far away from civilisation will have been symbolically exiled from the civilised world upon return, maybe called a wildling, a barbarian etc. because his wild ways will appear strange to the civilised humans and to their domesticated dogs. And here, see, we also have the reverse of what happened in the forest: this guy turned into a stag was just standing there when he was attacked by the dogs, he was made into a marvellous wild creature by this goddess, and ripped to shreds by his own equals who did not recognise him anymore because he did not look like one of them. I'm probably not great at explaining all this, but I hope it makes some sense. There are stories in the Romanian folklore (and I imagine in other countries too) about faeries who come out at night this one day of the year and bless the crops and no mortals should stumble upon them because only the sight of their beauty would turn them mute or make them lose their mind, and this Diana story reminded me of those stories.
It’s about the danger of succumbing to one’s animal nature.
No, it's about one's animal nature being interfered with, by one's mother.
@@Actaeon2nd, lol, explain yourself at once 😂
@@jasonjenkins812 Not sure if this will get past the censors but here goes. Those dogs in the Actaeon myth? They represent the normal male animal instinct to pursue the female object. When the Goddess (child Actaeon's mother) blasts him for looking at her naked body she plants a giant 'NO!' in his young subconscious mind. When it comes time (after maturity) for his dogs to sniff out and hunt down a woman they can't. So what do they do? They turn inward and attack him. Can you guess what that means? Hint. Think of a word that starts with the letter 'H'. Think 'Pride Month' while you are at it. See now how his animal nature has been interfered with and turned around? Sure you do. BTW, it's certainly no laughing matter.
@@Actaeon2nd, interesting, that makes sense as well.
Please please please could you give me a reference or the resource you used regarding the stag being a symbol of male impulse. 🙏🏼
Oh, I don't know of any resources exactly, but it's just one of those age old metaphors, hence why stag nights are called stag.
The Dictionary of Symbols is a great reference. However, it correlates the stag “horns” to the masculine (page 151).
Source: ia801306.us.archive.org/9/items/DictionaryOfSymbols/Dictionary%20of%20Symbols.pdf
Diana in the myth felt mercy for Aceton and wanted to bring him back his original form. She never felt sorry for men who wanted to turn women into their toys. She always turned those into hares. Deer form suggest smth Aceton wasn't ausidious in love, he wasn't mature enough to form a stable relationship coz he belived love is a bliss.
He should have sent his dogs to prank Artemis first. 😂
What is the source by Ovid that mentions all the dog names? I downloaded the Metamorphoses but the myth is short in that version and no dog names at all. I looked at the Wiki entry for the myth and there is a table of dog names and Ovid mentions 22 or 27 names (I guess different sources). 27 is a lunar number and 22 is a little trickier. The "bitch" names are 13 and that is more of a solar number. Anyway, I'd like to read the original that lists all the names.
Ovid's Metamorphoses in print form includes all those.
It's like foreign churches are not stopped from confiscating property and then distributing it to those who answer to foreign governments only.
.....isn't this the plot to Brother Bear??
Somewhat, but brother bear gets to live and return as human and redeem himself at the end.
Does Diana have the power to do lesser tempestuous damage? The transformation into a wild forest mammal may be her only recourse and rather automatic as she is most familiar with the beast and holds Stags in high majestic regard or that the spell was determined by the victim's own temperament. Diana's portrayal is sexist and unbalanced, as she may have been able to read his thoughts and mirrored the lust back upon Actaeon, in displaying his true nature.
In meting out his punishment for being obtrusive, Actaeon's fate is open for debate and further insights should be developed. The portrayal of Diana's reasoning is stagnating from a women's perspective. In the defense of a violated woman and their sacred dignity, men are not able to reflect properly on the severity of the injustice. The limited inherit treasures that women possess, singing, dancing, motherhood, and beauty are their only gifts of value. Yes, developed skills in cooking, arts, and other secondary skills are of minor value compared to their natural gifts and the morals of the period should be framed to further the understanding of the story. We are accustomed to seeing naked beauty today, however, the ancient norms did not tolerate acts of voyeurism on a Goddess and I would dare say a male God would have struck him dead given the same circumstances.
Actaeon was intrusive, not obtrusive. An intrusive, very young boy, four or five years old. Diana is, of course, his mother. "Cruel and chaste' is how Joseph Campbell rightly describes her. No the punishment certainly did not fit the crime. Actaeon was innocent. I was innocent. When will you all understand the real meaning of this story?
I can tell you what it means. I lived it
Me too, but the youtube censors won't allow the truth to be told.
@@Actaeon2nd tell. I'm all eyes. I'm sure you'll be fine.
@@matthewfoster2684 See my other replies. I was four or five when I saw my (Goddess) mother naked. She reacted very harshly screaming repeatedly to 'GET OUT' !!!! I'd have to wait years for that time bomb to go off.
@@Actaeon2nd that's not what it's about. But. Sorry about that
@@matthewfoster2684 Sorry is right. What do you think it is about? You say you lived it.
Aren't the stories of old always make bad endings hence Greek ending, but beside having a bad ending back then 35 was considered old like grampa old. Life was short, God's crushed men like bugs.
Think: all current governments agree spying is not wrong.
In all respect to the thoughts of this young man speaking on this. It's very insulting 😂
Could you explain a little? I don't mean to cause insult if you feel I'm getting things wrong
You read it at uni? For class? And you didnt study them all? I read it all front to back TWICE by myself. FOR FUN
Hey, hey, hey, I had to read 5 different works of literature a week. I did what I could with the time available to me 😆
Imagine, a voyeur will not talk to someone they have not spied upon. Screening for someone who is mental is not smart.