Gen 2 Photonis Echo White Phosphor vs Gen 3 Elbit / Harris Green Phosphor Night Vision
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 чер 2020
- This is older footage I haven't posted on this channel before comparing gen 2 Photonis Echo white phosphor against more average spec Harris (now Elbit) Gen 3 green phosphor. I sold this tube when I got L3 filmless WP and my other videos are with a higher spec gen 3 GP. Full specs below in order as shown on data records minus the FOM which I put at the top.
Photonis Echo WP type ZW0973A
2078 FOM (67 resolution & 31.01 signal to noise ratio)
Max output brightness 5.2
Luminance Gain 9379
Resolution 67 lp/mm
EBI .20
Signal to noise ratio 31.01
Input current 23.5
Image alignment 0.13
Halo .64
Useful cathode 17.7
Harris GP FType F9815SLG (Night Vision Devices HP+
1625.6 FOM (64 resolution & 25.4 signal to noise ratio)
Photocathode sensitivity/Luminuous 2301
Radiant .830um 265
Halo .92
EBI 0.57
Gain 2x10-6fc(K), max 58029
Resolution 64
Signal to noise ratio 25.4
This is not a sponsored video. These devices were my own.
I added the full specs from the data records
Does the camera diminish the picture Photonis echo quite a bit? Is it much clearer in person?
@@romeowhiskeylima556 It always looks better to the eye but these videos accurately represent what you can expect
Man I love your videos. You make it so much easier to choose. Yeah each image intensifier is unique but we get a pretty good idea. Great content.
Thanks and happy 4th!
Just what was needed bro. Just ordered two PVS14s with echo WP tubes and a panobridge
Thanks for these videos!
Just ordered a gen 3 Elbit WF tube from TNVC. These videos have helped me make an informed decision.
👍
Thanks
great video! really helps. keep it up!
Panagiotis Zisis Thank you! 👍
I have a gen3 Harris green phos, i'd be happy to add that photonis to my list.
Awesome thanks!
You bet!
Thanks man, jumped in with a agm pvs 14 gen 3 level 1 green. Can’t wait to play with it at work . I do security and some night sky viewing!
Congrats!
Thank you! Just got a photonis echo. Months of research when I finally made a call. Ready made Resources gave me the best advice I could have ever imagined. For most the echo is great and much more than they need. For a first class photographer it may not be. Then they told me the Echo fom ratings come in higher than stated. Why spend 1000-1400 more for the hope of an improvement when most top higher end models Amazing company!!
Hey did you end up liking your photonis?
❤
Keep coming with the info...
You know it 👍
@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION here's great IR comparaison from J.W. Ramp ua-cam.com/video/7VtApUpfq0o/v-deo.html
Todd Arnold He did an awesome job on that. I was following that on ARF when he first mentioned setting it up.
I have the choice of swapping my thin filmed L3 GP tubes for some Echo tubes. Would be another 2k. But I think this video helped me decide not to do that.
You were gonna swap gen 3 L3 thin filmed for gen 2 and pay $2,000?
I went with two 14s with echos and tnvc non powered bridge on rhino 2 dovetail. It works fine.
I live way out in woods and it's good, on really dark nights or in dark-dark room it's a little low, but your right, the bloom of Harris is not good. Plus the green is really green. White is nice and clear to your eye. Would also like to say the streamlight tlr vir 2 works just fine for when you need extra help.
Unless yer actively hunting ISIS or whoever inside buildings or outside, and you can not use an illuminator, go echo. They're good.
And thanks nightwalker, your videos more so than anyone else's helped me a lot. 😎👍🇺🇸
Reality Check Glad to hear 👍 Echos get a bad rap sometimes. $ for $ the Echo WP’s are hard to beat, they’re good tubes, and the best way to get good white phosphor at good prices.
@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION again dude,I appreciate your (and mrs nwalker) work.
Yer videos are far better than most because of you calm nature.
This is a stressful purchase for most who dont have a lot of experience with these units. Which I'm assuming is majority of viewers. I almost got talked into Harris, but the person selling them on the cheap, while nice, was too impatient and told me "this is an adult buy" like I'm 12 and stupid for being hesitant to drop 7k.
Went to TNVC, and while it took longer (mostly because of Corona) I've been treated so well, and with so much respect that I'll be getting third unit for my kids to fight over.
Thanks again. Hope to see you guys maybe do some night camping videos or something.
GB AMERICA 😎👍🇺🇸
Keep up the good fight boys and girls.
TNVC are solid. Thanks for the kind words.
Currently have a photonis WP pvs-14 and I'm thinking about upgrading to binos. Between XLS grade WP elbit tubes and an average GP elbit tubes (not sure what grade they are), is there one you would recommend or have had experience with? I do like the look of WP on my current monocular and I've seen some of the XLSH grade tubes with pretty good numbers posted on the forums.
I got dual L3 filmless PVS-14 and the TNVC bridge because of your videos. I’ve never been more thankful for this equipment than I am now.
There’s reports the rioters are on our communities doorstep. And you know these will be used to protect my family and I.
Thank you.
mclarkson78 Glad to hear. Filmless are amazing. Scary times for sure. 2020 is shaping up to be a very concerning year that’s for sure
Good luck!
I think some of the name brand NV shops are about to do July 4th sales. 1 will be having rnvg with L3 Filmed green tubes. Since L3 unfilmed WP are a 6 month wait, are greens still viable? would you buy them?
Green phos still works great but I’d do thin filmed WP over GP
Hello, was the Harris gen 3 a bravo or alpha TUBE? I have seen some cheapier gen 3 bravo tubes less than 2k now.
I have the tube info in the description
Doesn’t light mess up the tubes? I’m ordering some soon, and I keep seeing videos where people point them at bright lights 🤔
Light exposure like in this video is fine. Prolonged stationary exposure or too intense of an exposure is what causes damage.
Awesome vid! Is this the same elbit GP tube that you used in your other video where you compared L3 filmless, photonis, elbit GP? If so, what was the SNR of the L3? I know one of your filmless it is 34.
Never mind lol I see someone asked the same question as me. Do you remember the SNR the green filmed that you showed in the other video?
@@deekay270 I don't but it should be listed in the description
Awesome video, gotta love these comparisons! Do you happen to know the gain for both of these tubes? Also, if I am not mistaken, you multiply the Photonis listed gain by Pi (3.14..) to compare with the US listed gain specs (found this in one of the astronomy forum rabbit holes, lol). It’s not a perfect comparison due to the different spectrum sensitivity but at least it helps compare the gain.
Sure do -
Echo is 9379 cd/m2/lx
Elbit/Harris is 58,029 2x10-6fc (K), max.
Using Pi that's 29,450 vs 58,029.
@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION Awesome, thanks for the reply. After a rabbit hole amount of research (your videos included), I ended up going with an Echo+ (Canadian ITAR restricted peasant) and got lucky with some solid specs. Keep up the awesome videos, these deserve way more views. Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge.
I'm sure you're going to love them. Thanks brother, I appreciate it.
@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION The numbers on the paper is 2x brighter. Do you feel 2x brighter with ur eyes?
@@offffofof Twice as bright may be accurate. It's very much noticeably darker compared side by side.
Are the shadows as dark to the human eye?
Usually, as long as there is starlight in the open, I'm fine without image intensifier.
I mostly use them to help my camera.
But I'm considering a high speced gen2+ for use in forest area.
Or should I save more to get a high end gen3?
Arno nümuss Yes, I feel these videos captured it pretty well. The Echo is darker but with this particular gen 3 tube in very low light the differences weren’t as apparent. A higher spec gen 3 will perform better in the forest. I would aim for the highest sensitivity, gain, & snr with the lowest ebi & halo. Gen 3 is affected worse by bright lights than the Echo
Awesome video! Can you still post the gain and the sensitivity of the Harris tube?
Yessir, 2301.
@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION wow not bad, I think that's where it gains a little advantage
aiguy It would be nice if Photonis listed the sensitivity. I also wish all of the tube mfg’s would list their spec sheets identically. It would make comparisons a lot easier
@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION I agree, also gain is like ebi calculated different. (Photonis x 3,14 = us gen3) My older photonis xr5 actually has sensitivity listed, but again different measurements. Where it can be compared is at 830nm, but the thin filmed number there needs to be x 0.75 for a fair comparison (to include the film). In short, its a big mess!
Great video...what tube in the video is making that low pitch buzzing noise? Gen3 or gen2 photonis echo?
Thanks
Thanks. That’s the autogating of the gen 3
@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION good to know. I'm curious.. is the photonis echo white phosphor autogated noise one of the lowest pitch noise you experienced or are there units out there that make almost no noise with autogated?
@@AnAmazingTruthseeker a bit late to the party, but my Gen 3 GP tube makes a noticeable eeeeeeeeee that can be heard from a meter away, while my Photonis Echos make no audible noise
I have an echo WP 2+ coming on a pvs7. I have a GEN one the Russian goggle that wow excellent first generation the whining drives me nuts but the dude I bought this from said it was a autogated and then all of a sudden it’s not so I thought auto gating was a good thing it was good to put up with that noise because your tube is able to handle the highlight situation better. Not get damaged when a cop flashes a flashlight in your face and all that. I’m just happy to have white phosphorus and get a Photonis I’ll take it for $1600.
Do you prefer gen 2 green or gen 3 euro (blue)?
I prefer current US Gen 3 WP
But if it’s between specifically those two then green. I don’t particularly like the blue color of Photonis WP.
So if you're going to be using an IR illuminator they're both pretty much the same. cool.
That’s basically correct. Many Echos at least the ones sold in the USA have really clean screen cosmetics. They look sharp.
I've been researching the quality between 2+ and gen 3....so far it seems that to get the best perceived resolution out of a 2+, go with white phosphor compared to standard green.
As for gen 3, either colors will cut it. LOL!!!
I’d only go for the Echo if it’s priced well below. At the same price range a decent gen 3 is the better option for its higher gain and superior light amplification/multiplication.
What did u get? I just got a gen 2+ HD tube WPT rather than a standard green gen 3. Gen 3 green tubes are less than 2k in some stores.
Can you do a comparison for me, I think with all the other night vision newbs ur would be helpful: Dbal D2 Illuminator vs M600 scout vampire, vs m300 scout vampire. And also compare the white lights of the standard m600 duel duel against the vamp’s puny 350. I really want a m600 vampire+ Dbal I2 but if the Surefire isn’t as good as the D2 Illuminator maybe I should just get the standard M600 and another Dbal
By the way I realize that the odds of you having the exact things I want to compare are slim
MrAdvantage1 Are you on Instagram?
NITEWALKER yessir
MrAdvantage1 Here’s the M600V and X300V IR and white light. I don’t have one with the D2 but I’ll get one for ya later instagram.com/p/B_3vkAap1Ih/?igshid=z1hsc3d3zc1u
NITEWALKER man thank you so much. Is the x300v rated for 350 lumens of white light? I’m just confused because I thought the m600 was also rated for 350L or white light.
Also where’s it easiest for you to answer questions like this?
Also do you have a patreon?
Can't compare unlike tubes if they use different phosphors. Green is naturally brighter.
Not necessarily. Most folks feel Gen 3 WP is brighter than Gen 3 GP but the individual tube’s gain also plays a role.
At the beginning of this video I explain the purpose of this comparison. It’s for the similar price point at that time of Gen 3 GP vs Echo WP
@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION I've been doing a bit of reading, and the peak sensitivity of human vision is weighted based on the amount of ambient light. Photopic day vision peaks at in green, while twilight and night vision shifts the peak down into green-blue.
This might explain why white and blue-white are often preferred, because their spectra produces a similar effect to achromatic low light vision. By contrast, the fovea is composed predominantly of cone cells, which peak in sensitivity and resolution in yellow-green.
@@Tattlebot A good indicator when it comes to phosphor color in regards to real world performance is the use of white phosphor (in particular unfilmed) by US Special Operations and also the USAF’s switch to WP. The DOD drives the technology and the tube manufacturers build what they request.
Have been watching your content for a long time now. Thank you for putting these videos out.
Is the green Harris tube in this video the same tube (same specs) as the thin film tubes in this other video of yours? ua-cam.com/video/Zns4sqYTVDg/v-deo.html
Thank you! No, this is a different tube in this video. The tube in the other one had higher specs.
I mean the gen 3 tube is noticeably brighter than the photonis tube. You can really see more of the environment/better awareness with the gen 3 tube.
I saw a huge difference, I’ve looked through my friends photonis tubes and they suck ass when the moon isn’t out. Keep in mind the gen 3 is not average spec those are low shit specs compares to what’s normal. Thin filmed by Elbit are typically 2100-2400 fom... not 1500 fom like these and even then this shit low spec gen 3 was brighter and clearer in all images especially in the dark images which is where you want your nightvision to work... moon lite nights the naked eye can see just fine. This comparison gets old, gen 2 photonis isn’t comparable to any gen 3. It has a place, that place is a cheap alternative for people to get into Nv. It is not directly comparable to gen 3 technology. The guys that try to say it is are the same dudes that say DPMS Oracle ARs are just as good as BCM or Knights. My step dad was a cheapskate and always tried talking up his cheap purchases as if he out smarted the system by not paying more for the real products. That guy pisses me off, so when I see guys like him doing what he does with guns gear and nightvision it just annoys the crap out of me and not to mention creates a fake understanding of gen 2 capability that leads new comers to wasting money. Now Eotech is trying to sell their new NVGs with shitty photonis tubes for $13,000 and some change... I can get PVS31AS for $13,000 and sometimes find them for $12,000. This madness has to stop. I run L3 filmless now and have for more than a few years. My first set of nods were issued pvs15s and my first set of personal NOds were also pvs15s both sporting gen 3 green thin film, I ran a set of white thin filmed for awhile and had both thin and unfilmed for a number of years untill just owning Filmless. I have a few friends that’s bought into the lies of photonis marketing and I’m the city with city lights everywhere... sure they work but in the country at my house or exploring abandoned buildings or town and caves... nope they do not work one bit. Using IR sucks, it illuminates everything up close and darkens everything far away so if your tubes can’t work without IR then your ability to see what’s around you is severally effected. Thin filmed is the same price as gen 2 now a days... how the hell is photonis even in business? Oh that’s right they have vindictive manipulative marketing strategies that boast a lie. Ever read photonis marketing? It’s a bunch of French guys upset America wouldn’t sell them gen 3 tech and it comes out in their marketing material. You can literally feel the hate and jealous through the words of their website. Don’t be that guy that buys the Honda and tells everyone how it’s just as good as the Mercedes. I really want to make an AK guy joke but I won’t I know how sensitive AK guys are about their AKs. Lol about as sensitive as photonis guys are about their gen 2 tubes lol. If you got into Nv that’s awesome it really is but this SNOBY shit of “My gen 2 is better than gen 3 or atleast compares to the filmless at half the price” has to stop like Fuxk. Years down the road as you invest more and more money into NV you will buy filmless eventually if you stay in the game or if L3 puts out something better than filmless your gonna buy that. I didn’t have the best tubes out there for years, kinda, I did start on thin film but my first set of personal NVGs weren’t super high spec comparably to what was in the market at the time. I had to save my pennies just like everyone else and as years went on I one saved money but also learned to make more money but having money invested in Nightvision allows you to buy nicer stuff down the roads as you save up, buy trade and sell equipment and even if you don’t make tons of money, the continuing investment in NVGs will get you better and better tubes as time goes on.
2100-2400 is not “average” for elbit thin filmed. When shopping for my first NV device all of the elbits had a min spec of 1300 fom, and it seemed like people were getting around 1500-1700. I had the option to get a good spec echo or a elbit thin film GP and I went with the echo (for now). I absolutely hate GP and would not be happy one bit if I got a green tube, but my budget didn’t allow me to get a wp setup unless I went with the echos. I’ve talked to a few dealers and I’ve watched a ton of UA-cam videos and I truly believe the echos will be good enough for my use. Are they as good as a gen 3? No they are not. I’ve used filmless gen 3 wp and they are stunning. I’m excited to try my echos when they come in and I’m excited to see them side by side a hand selected filmless gen 3!
@@CalebE98 depends on which Elbit tubes your looking at .Elbit tubes absolutely hit 2100-2400 but if your looking at the commercial grade the. Yes average will be lower. Minimum spec is irrelevant, minimum specs on 24 UA L3 tubes is 1700 fom but 90% of them are 2400 or more. It can depend on where your shopping I guess, Steele industry and anyone they supply “like primary arms and big Tex something and a few others, their Elbit tubes are almost always 2100 and up. Elbit recently started to sell their commercial tubes and those have the 1300 min allowed spec.
@@CalebE98 my beef with photonis isn’t that they aren’t good for the money and a good way for guys to get into nods. My beef is them claiming in their marketing to be better than their competitors misleading people. Now they are more expensive than L3. The new Eotech NVGs are photonis and they are $14,000. So it’s becoming not worth it. Yeah if you can pick up photonis white phous duals for $4,000 to $5,000 than that’s a great deal and I would encourage new comers to get them. But that’s not what’s happening and it got worse with the release of Eotechs new housing. I bought my L3 DTNVS 2700 fom for $11,000 last year which was a steal but now photonis is asking more than what I paid for both my DTNVS and 31s. I bought a extra set for my kids to use and they are RNVgs Elbit 2200 fom white phous and I paid $6300. I’m not trying to attack end users, I’m trying to warn them. Yeah photonis could be a beautiful thing but now they think they can not only sell them for more than Elbit but more the L3 filmless. I know pvs14s are still down in price but last time I checked photonis 14s ran $2200-$3000.... Elbit 14s sell for exactly the same. Prices vary greatly depending on where your shopping. Best deals I see are from Steele and Apollo gear, goon gear is a good source I can’t remember his pricing though. Tnvc rips people off, NVG guys rips people off, ultimate NV rips people off, r target or something like that rips people off, kosher supplies seems to have fair pricing but not the cheapest or most transparent, Nightvision InC rips people off. I can’t think of all the names but there is a few good ones wirh great pricing that list every spec of every tube they get with pics so your always hand selecting your tubes and their prices are far better. There is a couple more really bad resellers that take advantage of people, LA arms? His on UA-cam and makes decent videos but man he plays games on how he prices you tubes. Steele sells their highest spec tubes the same as the lowest spec tube (per a category and basically first come first serve. You can get unbelievable gems if you sign up for their news letter and are ready to purchase when they send out new inventory lists.