Photonis Intens 4G vs. L3 Gen 3 Filmless - High Light Comparison
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2017
- The new Photonis Intens 4G night vision tube head to head against the most advanced US intensifier tube on the market - L3 Gen 3 unfilmed white phosphor.
Specs on each tube:
L3 Gen 3 Unfilmed White Phosphor:
PC Sensitivity: 2340
Resolution 72p/mm
Signal to noise ratio: 33.6
EBI: 0.5
Halo: 0.8
Photonis Intens 4G White Phosphor:
Resolution: 73 lp/mm
Signal to Noise Ratio: 29.65
EBI: 0.3
Gain@20ulx: 11030 cd/m^2/lx
Halo: 0.9
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PLEASE Take note: You can NEVER get an accurate picture of any Night vision tube via a video recording as is portrayed here. Video tends to smooth out the image and take away its noise and scintillation (little flashed of tiny light). If i had to approximate e it is 80% accurate to what you really see. So please be aware of this and "physically try before you buy".
No, this is pretty much exactly what it looks like during actual use. If anything the image in the video is worse due to compression when it is uploaded to UA-cam.
Well in my own experience using a decent Panasonic camera, the image always takes out scintillation. Perhaps this vid is accurate then, but again, try b4 you buy guys.
We have a rental program that gives you the ability to do just that. If you decide to purchase a scope you can apply the rental fee toward the purchase price: www.ultimatenightvision.com/Rentals-s/1820.htm
Good to hear. Your a company i always here good things about. Nice1
exactly dud.
Thanks for the side by side comparison. Currently in the market for a PVS14 and my current plan is to get the highest spec tubes I can find.
Straight up no BS side by side comparisons without alot of interjected opinions seem to be rare. And for us who spend months or years saving up for something like this, as a once in a lifetime buy. This is invaluable to us. Thank you.
Both of these units are very impressive. Thanks!
photonic looks clearer but can definitely see more with the l3.
photonis defo the winner
No photonis offers darker image making it appear clearer wait till you get L3 out in the woods overcast low moon my buddy’s headset smokes the photonics great shadow gradient
The I3 is a higher-key picture with lighter shadows. That's why dark objects are more visible in it. A full tonal range is always best, perhaps with a bit of gamma applied to the quarter-tones to bring out detail in the darker bits.
I don't know why we're still using analogue PMTs at all. We could have full HDR vision with off-the-shelf cell-phone-camera technology. All that's needed is to create eyepieces for them, and that could be something as simple as a pair of combat goggles with an internal projector or a transparent display in the lenses.
@Larry Stack It depends on what you mean by "HDR." It doesn't necessarily mean the current industry standard used by TV sets; it simply means compressing a wide dynamic range into one narrow enough to be displayed. Naturally you want optics and sensors that capture the broadest dynamic range possible.
As for lag, that's just a question of optimization. The same hardware can turn in 120 fps or 5 fps, depending on how tight the code is and how well the bandwidth is managed. You would need a Mac Pro with an Afterburner card to play 4K Cinema RAW in real time. But even a phone can play the same movie in .h264.
@@shane99ca Lag is real. Analog night vision is literally giving you images at the speed of light. Digital gives you images based on processing speeds
The only right answer is to get both!
Dope review homie. I'll be right behind ya with my own
Great comparison video
Hi, why after 2:10 the tubes change the color? L3 seems like more green and 4G seems more bule?
Funny how the color changes at 2:10 flips one to the other like editing it.
I noticed that too 🤔
Amazing!
Will the tubes be damaged at all using them regularly under those light conditions? The parking lot seemed very bright.
The photonis does a better job of tamping down on those light sources... On the OTHER hand, that's probably just lesser tube sensitivity, as the L3 shows details in the shadows where the photonis renders indistinct areas of a blackish gray. Also the L3 shows fixed pattern noise while the photonis flickers in the lit parking lot.
As always, of course a camera doesn't really do an NVG justice and it's really damn hard to replicate the image seen by the human eye on the screen through a camera lens.
I have the photonis echo tube and it is awesome. I would def buy again. Great specs and easier on the wallet.
@HereNthere 84 Whats the FOM for your tubes?
@@djeemetryphebe4303 2073.
They aren’t quite as nice when it’s DARK
Have you tried natural colored night vision?
photonis has better control over the strong light environment.L3 seems to do better in the dark details, but there is no perfect fusion without thermal imaging. In addition, I would like to know their life detection experiments under strong light environment.
Thermal imaging isn't perfect. I have a thermal scope and looking at a building about 200 yards away with people standing against the wall, the people blended almost perfectly into the wall of the building.
Likely this was because just after dark and the wall was on the wall west side so heated up.
It was with a ATN Thor4 thermal scope, using a 640/480 sensor and a 70mm lense (the only numbers I could find on the lense said 70mm I haven't personally confirmed yet), 4X native magnification.
I also found that clutter, like twigs on a tree at close range basically nuke your ability to see what's on the other side. As well as rain, fog and especially falling snow bring the viewing distance from near horizon to under 200 yards, often times less then the naked eye during the day (same result at night just obviously the naked eye can't see shit at range)
flickering under neon lights - intens
How come the l3 looks more blue here then it does in most other cases?
A few dealers are buying L3 Harris WP 24UA tubes. What specs have this tubes?
Its interesting that you can see the hexagon film in a "filmless" tube.
The change of color at 2:10 is a bit of a discrepancy. Any reason why the L3's look bluer in the first half of the video?
Camera can't cope with the narrow blue phosphor line.
I have both and would say the blue hue is photonis tube
was the footage recorded from the device or through a camera and what lens's were on the each device?
great video.
how long does those tubes last ?
Michael mike at least 10,000 hours.
Does the photonis have less eye strain as the image is less blue? Also I thought ohitonis was supposed to have less halo
Test them outdoor without city lights.
This is photonis intens, which is an upgrade to the more common echo tubes available. And this type of high light environment is the ideal conditions for gen 2. You could navigate this environment and see things fine with your naked eyes, is a suburban area with street lights. An enhancement for sure. But if you’re trying to go out and see in the dark dark, kinda the whole point of night vision, the photonis would need supplemental IR light to remain functional looooong before the L3 unfilmed or standard gen 3 thin filmed.
True. You can find the low-light comparison here: ua-cam.com/video/1pyd-LXPTUg/v-deo.html
@@Ultimatenightvision y’all should do a comparison of an elbit xlsh tube with a photonis echo if you haven’t already. I think that is the more common tube choice people are making these days, in the states at least. Thought I’m not sure why when photonis is in many cases more expensive than elbit xlsh gen 3. Even if it performs similarly well, the cheaper xlsh tubes will have double the lifespan lol 🤷♂️. People outside of the US, sure. You gotta take what you can get. But people in the US? I can’t see why any informed customer would choose photonis.
Nah. Photonis is at 80-85% of what good gen 3 tubes are. They are beating low spec gen 3.
The 4G WP use IR light?
Why did the color shade seem to flip halfway through the video?
is the L3 slightly out of focus? Seeing more in the shadows with the L3
I was thinking the same thing when I first took the video, especially the shot of the truck, so I re-checked the focus on both units and shot another take and the results were the same. It really underscores the difference between the 36 lp/mm high-light resolution of the L3 and the 57-72 lp/mm high light resolution of the Photonis.
way more noise on the L3. sure it seems that darker areas in the high light scenario are brighter but its the nuance in the picture that matters. in the gen 4 you'll be able to see a lot of nuance and fine details which drastically increases your chances of seeing movement with the clearer picture. i'd give up some of the brightness in the darker areas of the high light scenario to be able to see a lot more detail, clearer...
Is the photonis unfilmed also? I read unfilmed don't last as long so I'd rather have a thin filmed pinnacle unless that 4g photonis is thin filmed, then I'd rather have that, thanks.
Shane K I've read that claim too, but food for thought, something I've NEVER read along with these claims I've read about filmless tubes degrading radically over their service life, is a SOURCE. No, really.
So when was fourth generation night vision certified by the military that’s what I want to know.
I like the L3 better actually. Brighter, better details in the shadowed areas over the Photonis. Less defined with the L3, but can make out what's in the shadows alot more.
4 G IS FOR URBAN USE AND L3 COMPLETE DARKNESS
i'm in the market for a PVS 14. Is it worth getting the auto gain over the manual gain?
Absolutely. If you're gonna be moving around and doing things auto is a must.
I'm I the only one that noticed the titles at the top changed places, which one is which?? L3 on the left with the more blue tint??
Aren't they both P45 why L3 seems to have a lighter blue
Gen 3 looks lighter and can see more but I find that the 4G shoes more detail in the image
The photonis has better resolution however the gen 3 is more sensitive to light which is why the image appears brighter this is why gen 3 can see much more in extreme low light however this is largely a non issue because if it that dark you are generally going to be using your IR light.
Is it true that you'll get less hours out of a photonis tube?
Uh anyone else notice there are to examples of NV one whit and one tinted blue. the Difference is obvious and at 2:10 in this video they switch sides but are claimed to be the same still?
The camera can't cope with the narrow blue spectral line
The color balance is all over the place. At 1:25 the L3 looks bluer than the Photonis then at 3:40 its the opposite.
Yea, the iPhone does what it wants 😄
@@Ultimatenightvision So which is true? Is the L3 WP Filmless bluer or the Photonis 4G WP?
@@boostav The Photonis is a deeper blue
It's so weird that L3 tubes have such a swing in color from other WP options. My tube looks black and white and my neighbors tube is very mich so blue. Both are L3 unfilmed. Then you look through an ECHO or NNVT and they are VERY blue. My L3 has just the slightest cyan color but you can't see it unless you cover the lense or it is extremely low light. If I hold the device like a foot away from my eye I can see the color as well but I have haned the device to a few people and everyone agrees that it's basically gray scale.
I've noticed that when shooting video through my L3 Filmless White Phosphor tubes, my camera tends to overexpose the highlights. I've never noticed this before with my green tubes but it does have the effect of distorting what you actually see with your eyes vs a camera. Regarding this video, the L3 tube also seems to be a overly blue in the beginning and then warms up a bit at the end. I would suggest manually locking down your temperature settings on your camera.
Actually the color balance is all over the place. At 1:25 the L3 looks bluer than the Photonis then at 3:40 its the opposite.
Both will do
Let's be honest guys. 99% of our use cases, Photonis 4G's are gonna be fine.
More than enough for stealing firewood during the night in my humble opinion xD
What’s the flicker at 2:14?
60 fps camera vertically scanning area illuminated by AC power
L3 is brighter and looks more comfortable to me
I have nods with both... The Photonis tubes look considerably better and brighter in real life. I’ve got DTNVGs with photonis and 14s with the L3s.
If you could only have one, which would it be and why? Help a brother out
@@ForwardProgressUSA photonis is gen 2+ and has way shorter lifespan then even older gen3
the videos looks like the were switched ,the quality in the left ends up in right ......
Yup
Honeycomb and less resolution on L3. Flicker and less visibility in shadows on the Photonis. The photonis did bloom more on a distant light at 1:16. I guess it was a LED light and the higher blue response of the intense has something to do with it.
Photonis 4g 1800 fom?
So that flickering suggests it's digital?
Ok, but this is night vision, so how about low light condition?
A good video. I do not think that the high light response on filmless tubes is even as good as with a top end thin film tube like the F9800VG (and I have both, so I have made this comparison myself). Many of the Photonis videos I have seen have indeed given me the very strong impression that for high light, the filmless tubes are at the back of the pack. At 3:50, using the surface of the parking lot, it is easy to see that the Photonis does a better job of showing discoloration in the surface, with some areas having a dark appearance like a lunar sea, and these features are more muted in the filmless tube. Again, I have both thin film and filmless, and in high light, I think even the F9800VG is better with contrast. The view in the filmless tube is very bright, but somewhat "flat" as compared even to the F9800VG. In darker environments though the filmless tube pulls ahead slightly. (My F9800VG is of course P43 so in some ways it is apples to green apples comparison, but I still think the thin film and the Photonis both have better high light performance than the filmless tubes.)
Thanks for posting!
Thanks Ed! In my experience the Photonis tubes definitely have better high-light resolution, but the L3 filmless tubes seem to do better seeing into the shadows when there is a mix of bright and dark areas.
I was thinking the same thing about the L3 having a flat image. My MAWL destroys the resolution of my filmed L3 when illuminating targets, so much that I decided to go with echos when I purchased RNVGs. I was able to hand pick tubes and they exceed all intens specs except being a hair shy of the meeting the gain spec for intens. I'm very happy with my hand picked echo's. Comparing them side by side, the echos have much much better highlight resolution and the resolution is alot better with the mawl. In very low light the L3 still has a little bit better image but the noise of the echos seems calmer compared to my L3 despite having almost the exact same ebi. GP vs WP maybe? Just a guess/opinion, at this point the technology isn't there YET that there is a perfect tube. You just have to decide which is more important, extreme lowlight resolution or better highlight resolution. Photonis' website now shows an intens + model in addition to the intens so I guess we'll see if maybe those are the best compromise once those are out, if available to the public.
The Pgotonis wins out in every lighting condition except extreme low light.
😲 👍🏻
Both are great, but L3 looks better, just more detail in those areas where you need to see.
the L3 is brighter but the photonis get more details.
That's largely because the L3 is more sensitive to light which allows it to see in much darker areas.
All of your goggles seem to be out of stock. Are you still in business?
Yes sir
With digital nv catching up, it seems the only good gen 3 and 4 tubes can do is find extremely small details that only a computer can find and use effectively like on an aerial drone.
can you see UFO with it?
someone buy me the gen 4, thanks
Awesome ,but im poor lol
Best way to make a bad tube look good in comparison to a good one is to show them side by side in super bright conditions. Go in the woods with only starlight.
and then you sell these ruined tubes from this video as brand new? like, sodium hps will burn your analog tube
HPS?
@@ericquintana1900 the orange street light at the background
Photonis is better bro.
remember when the us army wanted gen 4 itt excelis now harris removed the film that protects the mc plate know as a ion barrier. it allowed more light to reach the photocathode but the tubes suffered drastic degradation hence the the thim film pinnacle was born. yes filmless are brighter than thinfilmed but at about 500 hrs the filmless tubes degrade to the point of being very blurry and not as bright i had one it was so degraded you couldnt see thru it. my thinfilemed has 3000 plus hrs and specs out at day specs. all in all its your money. do you want mission ready at day one or mission ready at day 600. your choice
Is the photonis a thin filmed IR filmless? I just went to the website and it doesn't say but it does say the 4G tube has a lifespan of 10,000 hrs? I've also read filmless are easier damaged and dont last as long so I'm confused, I like the WP though but won't buy one if its the same as a filmless gen three, thanks.
it's filmless I believe most WP tubes are filmless
Shane K my mistake but I believe it's fullest usually wp tubes are filmless
Thanks, I'll have to do some more checking. I too have heard filmless tubes have a shorter life span but the dealers website said the photonis 4G tubes have a 10,000 hour life.
Shane K there is 10000 hrs usable life and then there is 10000 hrs that you cannot see thru