That's one of the most helpful English wheel videos I've seen. The biggest take away for me was that the wheeled area is "captive" within the edges of the panel. Also of great value was the how to fix things if you go too far. In general, many videos done by experts show exactly how to do whatever it is, but spend far too little time showing how to fix mistakes. Thanks, I learned a lot.
It’s one thing to declare and then show how to make a motorcycle fender-looking object. It’s quite another to show how to accurately replicate a SPECIFIC object. Wray does the latter. This channel is truly priceless.
I just got in a little over my head with a restoration project for a client. It's the best way to learn I find. I've watched a bunch of your videos and will definitely digging in deeper. And be buying a few things from proshaper. Thanks Wray!
I have never done any English Wheeling. It is on my some day list. I am supervised how fast it will change a panel!! I allways think of English Wheeling as very slow work. THANKS Dan H
Gold dust Wray, thank you so much for sharing your skill and experience. I don't want to be a professional panel maker I just want the satisfaction of making my own cowlings for my light aircraft project. This sort of content makes it possible.
Thanks Ray, I just recently built a table top wheel and made my first panel today, came in for lunch and watched this video, your tips will help me get it cleaned up.
I enjoyed your video very much after having worked on metal rolling mills almost my entire working life in one position or other from narrow width to 5' wide. A lot of the things you were explaining here also apply there. There, we worked with roll shape (crowned rolls) and roll bending with the primary goal of achieving a flat sheet of the correct thickness all the way across the width and down the entire length. This is nearly impossible on a 4 high mill but we can reasonably achieve thickness tolerances. I think that part of the shape you are achieving is created by a minute thickness reduction in areas which is actually making the material longer or wider. I've cut a wavey-edged 24" wide strip down the length into 1/2" wide strips and it is a very visual aid to show and unable the new mill operators to see the different lengths of each strip vs the position on the 24" wide sheet it came from. It is the confining of the different thicknesses of the materials within the sheet equaling various lengths that create the shapes in the fence (Edges) you mentioned. This is not only in length but differences of the surface on each side of the sheet. What do you think?
Yes, the English wheel is like a rolling mill, squeezing the sheet metal thinner which adds area ( length, width,or both depending on the direction you wheel). The difference is on a rolling mill the squeeze is across the whole sheet, in a English wheel the squeeze is only at the contact area of the lower anvil.
@@proshaper Thanks for replying, whats going across that roll squeezing width was a lot of my life's work, sounds boring to most people but being able to control that and teaching the mill operators to me is was fascinating.
Fantastic experience with that movie! I felt like in the school Wray! Thanks a lot! It was so dense with information. I hope I will be able to train this on English Wheel sooner than later. Thumbs up!
Wray, I’ve watched most of your videos from panel shaping to tig welding and I’ve learned a lot and I’m thankful for that. Have you done a video showing how you prep and tig weld panels together that have been worked/shaped? I’ve seen the videos where you tig or gas weld a flat panel and then strength test it. But I want to see worked panels prepped and welded. I’m using the Argon Helium mix and I’m using 1/16 lanthanated as you recommend. But I’m still struggling butt welding worked panels together. I’m using 050 3003 and I can butt tig flat sections at the sheared edge. But when it comes to making a perfect cut and prepping 2 worked panels together, I consistently burn up the edges. Thank you for any further advice sir.
Thank you for the videos, I always learn a lot by them. Here's a question, The lower wheel has a crown to it and the upper wheel is practically flat, and the contact path is about 1/2 inch in the center, correct? I'm trying to build my own anvils and I live in a part of the world where English wheels are uncommon so I've never seen one in person hence I'm not sure about the details. I used to think I'm gonna need several anvils but your videos showed me it's perfectly possible to get a crown in a panel using a relatively low crown anvil, so I think I'm gonna get away with only one set of anvils.
Great video, thanks Wray. I purchased a mini wheel from Eastwood today for making patch panels for an E type. Hopefully it’ll be decent quality and do the job.
The 1952 Cadillac de-rusting was on hold for several weeks, yesterday we started the de rusting of the rocker areas. 95% of the center and rear sections are done. The front frame sections will be last but they have very little rust because they were protected by oil.
@Wray Schelin's ProShaper Workshop This video was very helpful. Area vs. Arrangement are much clearer to me now. Are your wheels hardened? Asking because you sand the surfaces to clean them. Also, many years ago you demonstrated a diy approach using bearings as top wheel anvils. Where would one look for them and how wide a bearing can be had? Thanks.
I polish the top wheel which is hardened and I polish the lower anvils which are not hardened. I polish with 600 and 1200 grit paper on a soft foam pad. You would have to polish for ten lifetimes before you removed any material. My first English wheel that I made ( 1985)I used a bearing for the top wheel. Today I would say learn to make your own top wheel or purchase it.
awesome class, thanks, im new to thi. Can someone answer somethink about the anvil ? the anvil always is flat in the center, where the contact is made? or it does has some radius in all the face?
It is like the first time I saw you using a shrinking disc!Unfuckybelievable!Problem is to give heir!95% of those watching you are only interested in profit!They re not passionate poeple like you and I!They cannot understand why you re spending so much time to realise so beautiful parts.You re tinker metal fairy wray!Awesome work wray!Damn awesome!!!
Have you considered offering this to an ASMR channel? There's a relaxing, hypnotic quality to English wheeling, with the slow emergence of shape and finsih.
Hello from Germany, incredible to see your skills in this craft... Iam really impressed! But I have one question regarding your English wheel : is the bended bracket between adjuster and frame not a weak spot? The frame looks very stable but the bended metal bracket locks like 3-4mm. Is it possible thats it a limiting factor?
My English wheel came with only one anvil a 3 inch radius, do you think I should buy different sizes are can I do ok with just it if not what do you recall for sizes? My top wheel is 2 Inch
Hi George, you can't do too much with that high crown wheel other than make wheel track marks. You need a low crown anvil with at least a 3/8" wide contact area. I never define anvils by radius, I define them by contact width and the amount of arc drop to the edge. Also the edge radius value.
Wray, Question. If you have a panel that's over 8 feet long and you don't want put shape along the length but you want shape top to bottom. Other people use a rubber band to halt the shape on one plane so how would you achieve only one shape - top to bottom???
@@proshaper Wray, So one I get the wheels to go with the wheel frame I got and built. It turned out great. Any suggestions on where, who to get the rubber wheel from or just go the wheel shop and buy a neoprene type wheel here?
So l pay top dollar for a set of high quality top wheels and lower anvils. Then I clean them by spinning them against a spinning sanding disc. Changing the run-out and shape of the anvils over time. Makes perfect sense.
Polishing with 600 and 1200 is maintenance, it removes at most millions of a inch of material. No change in anything other than the polish of the surface.
The term Form is defined in all dictionaries as Shape. Shape is defined as Form. That is clear as mud. I use the term Area to define the process of changing the sq area value of a compound curve sheet metal panel. I use the term Arrangement to describe the process of bending a sheet metal panel. When making a compound curve sheet metal panel the goal is to first create the correct Area value ( how and what method you use is irrelevant). After arriving at the correct Area value you then can set the correct arrangement value. So when you make a compound curve sheet metal panel you first create the correct area value, once you achieved that the arrangement value is set by bending the correct radius. If the Area value is not correct first you will not be able to set the Arrangement value, it will resist bending.
That's one of the most helpful English wheel videos I've seen. The biggest take away for me was that the wheeled area is "captive" within the edges of the panel. Also of great value was the how to fix things if you go too far. In general, many videos done by experts show exactly how to do whatever it is, but spend far too little time showing how to fix mistakes. Thanks, I learned a lot.
It’s one thing to declare and then show how to make a motorcycle fender-looking object. It’s quite another to show how to accurately replicate a SPECIFIC object. Wray does the latter. This channel is truly priceless.
As always wray you make and exsplain it simple ..
Excellent video very helpful thanks Wray
I just got in a little over my head with a restoration project for a client. It's the best way to learn I find. I've watched a bunch of your videos and will definitely digging in deeper. And be buying a few things from proshaper. Thanks Wray!
Great explanation of the subtleties! Thanks Wray!
I have never done any English Wheeling. It is on my some day list. I am supervised how fast it will change a panel!! I allways think of English Wheeling as very slow work. THANKS Dan H
There are a lot of misconceptions my job is to clear them up.😁😁😁
Thanks Wray, just got an English wheel last week and your video couldn´t have come at a better time!
Gold dust Wray, thank you so much for sharing your skill and experience. I don't want to be a professional panel maker I just want the satisfaction of making my own cowlings for my light aircraft project. This sort of content makes it possible.
Greetings from Finland! You have very interesting and informative videos.
Thanks Ray, I just recently built a table top wheel and made my first panel today, came in for lunch and watched this video, your tips will help me get it cleaned up.
I enjoyed your video very much after having worked on metal rolling mills almost my entire working life in one position or other from narrow width to 5' wide. A lot of the things you were explaining here also apply there. There, we worked with roll shape (crowned rolls) and roll bending with the primary goal of achieving a flat sheet of the correct thickness all the way across the width and down the entire length. This is nearly impossible on a 4 high mill but we can reasonably achieve thickness tolerances. I think that part of the shape you are achieving is created by a minute thickness reduction in areas which is actually making the material longer or wider. I've cut a wavey-edged 24" wide strip down the length into 1/2" wide strips and it is a very visual aid to show and unable the new mill operators to see the different lengths of each strip vs the position on the 24" wide sheet it came from. It is the confining of the different thicknesses of the materials within the sheet equaling various lengths that create the shapes in the fence (Edges) you mentioned. This is not only in length but differences of the surface on each side of the sheet. What do you think?
Yes, the English wheel is like a rolling mill, squeezing the sheet metal thinner which adds area ( length, width,or both depending on the direction you wheel). The difference is on a rolling mill the squeeze is across the whole sheet, in a English wheel the squeeze is only at the contact area of the lower anvil.
@@proshaper Thanks for replying, whats going across that roll squeezing width was a lot of my life's work, sounds boring to most people but being able to control that and teaching the mill operators to me is was fascinating.
@@davidschwartz5127 I bet you know of Morgan Construction in Worcester, MA founded in 1888.
Perfect watch right after my college graduation
Thanks Wray! Your're the best. And thanks Mark for doing all the camera work! Happy Hollidays!
Wow - thank you. What an excellent explanation and demo. 👍👍😎👍👍
Always something new to glean from your videos , well done.
Great video, help me understand how to deal with " loose ends better ". Wish you would continue to the finishing of the pannel.
It's first really cool education video , respect ❣️ more make similar...
Excellent video, thank you. I learn ever time you out one up….
Fantastic experience with that movie! I felt like in the school Wray! Thanks a lot! It was so dense with information. I hope I will be able to train this on English Wheel sooner than later. Thumbs up!
Thank you!
Wray,
I’ve watched most of your videos from panel shaping to tig welding and I’ve learned a lot and I’m thankful for that.
Have you done a video showing how you prep and tig weld panels together that have been worked/shaped? I’ve seen the videos where you tig or gas weld a flat panel and then strength test it. But I want to see worked panels prepped and welded.
I’m using the Argon Helium mix and I’m using 1/16 lanthanated as you recommend. But I’m still struggling butt welding worked panels together. I’m using 050 3003 and I can butt tig flat sections at the sheared edge. But when it comes to making a perfect cut and prepping 2 worked panels together, I consistently burn up the edges.
Thank you for any further advice sir.
Wray is the metals warlock!!!
thank you
Thank you Wray!!!
Wray!This is art!You re doin art!!!It's not fitzee s or Yann roussel s Frankenstein fabrications!!!You re the metals god!!!
Thank you for the videos, I always learn a lot by them. Here's a question, The lower wheel has a crown to it and the upper wheel is practically flat, and the contact path is about 1/2 inch in the center, correct? I'm trying to build my own anvils and I live in a part of the world where English wheels are uncommon so I've never seen one in person hence I'm not sure about the details. I used to think I'm gonna need several anvils but your videos showed me it's perfectly possible to get a crown in a panel using a relatively low crown anvil, so I think I'm gonna get away with only one set of anvils.
Thank you Wray 👍🏼🍺
Great video, thanks Wray. I purchased a mini wheel from Eastwood today for making patch panels for an E type. Hopefully it’ll be decent quality and do the job.
Great skills demonstrated 👍👏👏
How is the car with the rust treatment being sprayed underneath coming along now?
The 1952 Cadillac de-rusting was on hold for several weeks, yesterday we started the de rusting of the rocker areas. 95% of the center and rear sections are done. The front frame sections will be last but they have very little rust because they were protected by oil.
I need to enroll In your course already! Lol
@Wray Schelin's ProShaper Workshop This video was very helpful. Area vs. Arrangement are much clearer to me now. Are your wheels hardened? Asking because you sand the surfaces to clean them. Also, many years ago you demonstrated a diy approach using bearings as top wheel anvils. Where would one look for them and how wide a bearing can be had? Thanks.
I polish the top wheel which is hardened and I polish the lower anvils which are not hardened. I polish with 600 and 1200 grit paper on a soft foam pad. You would have to polish for ten lifetimes before you removed any material. My first English wheel that I made ( 1985)I used a bearing for the top wheel. Today I would say learn to make your own top wheel or purchase it.
awesome class, thanks, im new to thi. Can someone answer somethink about the anvil ? the anvil always is flat in the center, where the contact is made? or it does has some radius in all the face?
It is like the first time I saw you using a shrinking disc!Unfuckybelievable!Problem is to give heir!95% of those watching you are only interested in profit!They re not passionate poeple like you and I!They cannot understand why you re spending so much time to realise so beautiful parts.You re tinker metal fairy wray!Awesome work wray!Damn awesome!!!
Parabéns pelo belo trabalho
Have you considered offering this to an ASMR channel? There's a relaxing, hypnotic quality to English wheeling, with the slow emergence of shape and finsih.
I have no idea what ASMR is.
What is ASMR ?
@@ericsimpson1176 See ua-cam.com/play/PL4D36E3449C167E53.html
@@proshaper Search UA-cam for ASMR; the channel has an explanation
Hello from Germany, incredible to see your skills in this craft... Iam really impressed! But I have one question regarding your English wheel : is the bended bracket between adjuster and frame not a weak spot? The frame looks very stable but the bended metal bracket locks like 3-4mm. Is it possible thats it a limiting factor?
No not at all. No movement on the brackets.
Very, very interesting Wray! As they say the devil is in the details.
HI WRAY, DO YOU USE RUBBER BANDS ON THAT SIZE UPPER WHEEL, IF SO, WHERE DO YOU GET THEM?
I never use a rubber band on my wheels, no need for them.
My English wheel came with only one anvil a 3 inch radius, do you think I should buy different sizes are can I do ok with just it if not what do you recall for sizes? My top wheel is 2 Inch
Hi George, you can't do too much with that high crown wheel other than make wheel track marks. You need a low crown anvil with at least a 3/8" wide contact area. I never define anvils by radius, I define them by contact width and the amount of arc drop to the edge. Also the edge radius value.
Wray, Question. If you have a panel that's over 8 feet long and you don't want put shape along the length but you want shape top to bottom. Other people use a rubber band to halt the shape on one plane so how would you achieve only one shape - top to bottom???
You are describing a long radius. I would use a rubber top wheel, it works better than rubber bands.
@@proshaper Wray, So one I get the wheels to go with the wheel frame I got and built. It turned out great. Any suggestions on where, who to get the rubber wheel from or just go the wheel shop and buy a neoprene type wheel here?
Great video Wray. This all makes so much more sense after taking your class. I’m looking forward to coming back for more!
So l pay top dollar for a set of high quality top wheels and lower anvils. Then I clean them by spinning them against a spinning sanding disc.
Changing the run-out and shape of the anvils over time. Makes perfect sense.
Polishing with 600 and 1200 is maintenance, it removes at most millions of a inch of material. No change in anything other than the polish of the surface.
@@proshaper on
You said "Arrangement is bending." Can you definitively compare and contrast ARRANGEMENT, FORM, and SHAPE please?
The term Form is defined in all dictionaries as Shape. Shape is defined as Form. That is clear as mud. I use the term Area to define the process of changing the sq area value of a compound curve sheet metal panel. I use the term Arrangement to describe the process of bending a sheet metal panel. When making a compound curve sheet metal panel the goal is to first create the correct Area value ( how and what method you use is irrelevant). After arriving at the correct Area value you then can set the correct arrangement value. So when you make a compound curve sheet metal panel you first create the correct area value, once you achieved that the arrangement value is set by bending the correct radius. If the Area value is not correct first you will not be able to set the Arrangement value, it will resist bending.
Sticker on door is crooked.
He calls them "Weaks and Strong's" I call them "pimples and dimples"
Ken Mahan
English wheels look like they would be great at making blood shoot out from under your fingernail!
All tools will draw blood. Watch out for a drill press the most.
@@proshaper I was being sarcastic but yeah drill presses can do some damage lol