CINE4 vs SLOG2 vs SLOG3 | Sony A7iii 4k
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- Just a simple test between Cine4 vs SLOG2 vs SLOG3 on the Sony a7iii during an overcast day in downtown Denver.
Second clips are for skin tones, Still the same Sony skin tones.
Honestly, I do not really see a huge difference between them all in the grade. But that is also because they were shot at their lowest ISO, so you should expect them to be similar.
For me SLOG3 takes a bit more time to get the image to where I like it. I have also found that on a blue sky, SLOG3 will produce bad banding in the sky. (This will be shown in a later video).
I have shot with this camera pretty much everyday and I have found that I do like SLOG2 the best. I have yet to test SLOG2 in a low light situations though. I will have to make another video.
You will see a little vignette on some of the clips due to the polarizer.
-4k 24fps , 1/50th
-Graded in Resolve
-Sony 16-35 f/4
-1/4 Black Pro mist
polarizer
-No noise reduction
LiaStewy : / liastewy
Instagram: / braxtonklavins
Facebook: / braxtonklavin
Website: braxtonklavins....
Kudos for putting this together. I had to go back and re-evaluate the reasons for shooting Log vs. Cine4, and this was quite helpful.
very well done, thanks. Cine4 is easy to use but Slog3 has a more natural look.
They may all look the same after grading BUT it is because they were graded to look the same. Not explained here is the fact that the SLOGs could have been graded in many other directions, degrees and tones that the cine 4 could only hope for.
I'd say
Cine 4 : super easy to use, but of course reduces the dynamic range
SLog 2 : very easy to use and great dynamic range, just play with lift, gain, gamma and saturation to get a beautiful looking contrasty correction
SLog 3 : still easy to use, the dynamic range is amazing, once you made the basic exposure and color adjustments, you have a superb even looking image... quite too even and flat to my taste, I like to add a bit of contrast
My everyday profile would be SLog 2
Heavy color grading? SLog 3 is perfect... but in most cases, SLog 2 would be just as good!
It's only my opinion, I'm far to be a professional colorist.
Far from professional you say, but its a very valuable comment. I was wondering about which one was better :) thank you!
I have actually started doing this, if I know which program I am going to use to color grade (premiere pro or Resolve) , then I make my decision on that.
So if I am going to color grade the footage in resolve, then I will use Slog 2 because I like to color space transform with slog 2 and it is then easy to grade.
If I am color grading in premiere, I use Cine2 because I can’t grade slog2 well enough without the color space transform. And Cine2 gets me close enough
Something about the grade in the last clip, there's no way that road work ahead sign is that red :)
yea, I thought that too. I just did my standard grade that I do on all my footage. It could have been because I was using a polarizer and could have cut all reflection out of the sign, and since its made of reflective material it just came out super saturated.
Yeah it's pretty saturated but I'm talking about hue. I saw in another comment that you use Resolve's color space transform plugin and the source clips are in S-Gamut3 color space. So I took a sample from 2:50 (S-Log2) and used that same plugin in Resolve to convert color space from S-Gamut3 to Rec.709, then I tried to match contrast and saturation, and even then, the road work signs are noticably more yellow than in your grade.
Yea, So you its not hard to adjust selective hue/saturation. With the color space transform, it take 2 seconds to get that grade and then if I wanted to, I can go in and fine tune some things. But that is why I have the clips downloadable so that people can grade themselves and see what they get, just like you did.
Lol I actually missed the download option, I took screenshots from UA-cam. Thanks for the original clips!
I am just about to upload a night Slog2 video with downloadable clips.
they didnt have the filter you were using here, still testing it out, do you recommend bumping the F? does it not reduce quality? and keeping iso around 800 - im using a 72mm hoya variable filter.
stil fairly new to this , thanks for the advance feedback
Well the polarizer filter reduces light by one stop. And then it also reduces reflections. Hard to explain unless you look up how a polarizer works.
The black pro mist just kind of blooms the highlights. You can get different strengths.
With your variable filter, you can control the amount of light that is hitting the sensor.
The way I expose is first I pick which aperture I want to shoot at. Depends on the subject, but I also do not want to go extremely high or else you can see sensor dust.
Then I will lower the ISO as much as possible but not too much where the image is underexposed. Then if it is still too bright, I will turn the variable ND filter to get to the exposure I need. What is nice with a variable ND filter like you have, is that it allows you to shoot at lower apertures in bright daylight because you are able to bring down the exposure with it.
Let me know if this makes sense.
Braxton Klavins ah okay thanks, helpful 👍 will try this thanks v much,
i mainly do vlogging arm length with the 16-35mm or will be doing that so would f4 would be good 🙏
my recent photography videos have been vlog style on that same exact lens. Its really nice because I do not want to add a monitor for extra weight, so 16mm is wide enough to get a lot.
Hey Braxton, thank you for this wonderful video !
I've been struggling with Slog profiles for few weeks now (I'm only starting to learn color grading since few days) and I would ask you if you made significal changes to your Cine4 profile ( i mean settings) ?
I'm shooting with an Alpha 7s II, I don't know if there is a huge difference with the A7III....
I did not make any changes in camera to the Cine4 settings. I would just set it to Cine4 and leave the rest default. Color grading can be tricky, that is why I always say stick with one profile and learn it.
Your video tests are very helpful. Thanks Braxton.
Thank you. I have been thinking about releasing a video about all the popular profiles lately
hello. nice test. did u change smth in picture profile settings? Like saturation, details or color depth?
no, I left all the settings the same.
slog3 at 1:18, those skin tones for the win! cine4 and slog2 have a yellowish tint especially under her chin. slog3 colors look more natural and even. If you are a wedding videographer slog3 is your best bet! Trust me, if a bride turns out yellow she is not going to be happy. Also slog3 retains more dynamic range in her shirt. cine4 is almost blown out. Cheers.
You can change that in your color grading.. or use something like EOSHD profile to make the colors more like canon
Notice the purple clouds @ 2:38. Cine 4 ftw!
TJ Israelsen As a Canon owner I can say with confidence EOSHD looks not even remotely close to Canon colors. It is poorly designed and not recommended for professional use. Any of the cine profiles in stills color mode gives better results or you can even use pp off natural
I love that I google a review video for my camera and it takes place 1 minute from where I am watching from, my building is just out of frame!
Lol, that’s awesome!
@@Notxarb I'm brand new to shooting outside standard color profile, do you have any tips to offer up a newbie? I thought SLOG 2 was the way to go, but this video ( and a friend) make me think Cine 4 is a better all around solution
I would say in the beginning. Use cine4 because it’s not as flat as slog2. So that means that color grading it won’t be that difficult. Another thing to look for are LUTS that will convert cine4 to rec709, or slog 2 to rec 709. The best way to get good at color grading the footage is to constantly shoot footage and color grade it.
I think S log 3 looked the best on the girls skin but I feel like their all almost the same S log 3 and Cine4 I think it would be hard for me to pick?1
World class editing! I mainly take photographs so picture profiles don't interest me. But I did try cine 4 by watching tutorials and I have to say, standard works just as good...who would have known, the default picture profile. I now use cine 1 with custom settings and don't edit in post at all, it looks great out of camera!
Great video! I also own an A7 III but I found the noise in SLog 3(iso 800) made it pretty much unusable. Yet I watched your video and didn't find any issue with the noise. How did you solve that problem?
Wayne Liu are you over exposing without the highlights going over 100? Slog works best if you over expose the image and then bring it down in post.
Sounds like you are not exposing correctly. From my use on the a6500, set your zebras to 100+ . Expose your skin tones (or whatever is your main focal subject) and once you hit the zebra threshold then notch back one step and you should be good.
Ryan thanks! I’ll give it a try
Braxton Klavins you’re right on that. I’ll try to overexpose the next time I shoot. But even with that, I thought for this particular camera, a7 III, SLog 2 is probably the best option. SLog 3 tends to fall apart unless you try to be very precise with your exposure. Other UA-camrs have expressed the same thought.
yes, that is correct with SLOG3, I do not think the bit depth is high enough to do much with it. Especially since it is so flat, there is not enough data to bring things back.
Thank you for the excellent video Braxton! :-) The content was very helpful. I just purchased the A7 III and I'm looking for information regarding the profiles and you provided just that. The gradings look great.
Very good grading skills. You managed to make slog 2 and slog 3 be worthless having CINE4.. because you got very close (practicaly same) grading results. Top!
Is it fair to say that slog has better dynamic range but files are huge . Would cine4 be easier to use Assuming you expose correctly ? Smaller files but maybe not get as much details or free play with post compared to slog?
These are all great! What to choose???
I shoot with SLog2 all the time now.
I've been partial to Cine4 but thanks!
Hii Dear Friend.Thanks for this tests.But i have a question.i have a Sony A7SII and when i choice to SLOG-3 than min ISO is 1600.But i saw in your video is 800 ISO ! How is it possible ?
The A7III can go down to 800iso
@@Notxarb Thx man.i got it. But really bullshit with S2 iso 1600 :))
Great test! Very helpful. Have you ever tried Cine2? Much less noise then Cine4. Would love to see a test with Cine2 included.
I have not tried Cine2 yet. The reason was because I just wanted to shoot with 1 and only 1 profile and not have to worry about switching. But I can still run some tests because that will be interesting to see!
Yes. I used Cine4 (with EOSHD color) on an a6500 because once graded, there's just too much banding in Slog. Then tested Cine2, which doesn't crush the blacks as much and much less noise. Curious to see how Cine2 performs on the a7iii. Thanks.
After owning a6500 for quite some time, i find cine 4 or any cine profile to be the most useful and stable. Theres still banding in skies, but artifacts are dramatically reduced. Just adjust its knee, black, midpoint to get it as flat as possible then grade in post. Slog2/3 has to be exposed correctly in each lighting situation, a little mistake can ruin the shot. Esp with slog3, i see a lot of color shifting with varied exposure. Skin tones are sometimes impossible to restore/correct. You also deal with increased noise in slog
Yes, I have found this the same on my A7rii, but not my a7ii in slog2. I’m currently going to keep shooting with slog2 on my a7iii until I see a reason not to in my own footage.
you don't actually change the dynamic range by adjusting the knee, black, midpoint settings. it's pointless.
Hell yeah Denver shout out from Colorado Springs!!! : ) Thanks for the vid
What gamut you use? S-Gamut3.cine in all cases (Cine4, S-Log2, S-Log3)? Do you use any LUTs to normalize footage? May I ask what kind? Form LUTCalc or DaVinci Resolve?
All was shot in s-Gamut3 and I used Davinchi Resolve Color space transform for all of them. And then added a contrast curve to taste.
Thanks. Nice grading. All shots are very close to each other.
@@DawidMilczarek Doesn't color space transform do that for you? Make them all look the same on the timeline? The channel did do a good job grading, but didn't really show the point of S-Log, which is a lot more room for dynamic range. Maybe the point of the video was to "standardize" all of them to be the same, but S-Log3 could be edited to look way more eye-popping.
@@over1498 S-Log on these cameras tends to be noisy unless you overexpose and therefore are loosing dynamic range.
So after playing around; I have found that everybody grades differently and each profile responds differently to each individual process to how people grade.
For instance, I have seen people get amazing images with Slog3, but I have tried and tired and could not get something that I liked.
In the end, it’s something that everybody needs to test for themselves.
But you are right, slog3 should only be used when you want to capture all the dynamic range in the image, but all of the other profiles can’t
wait...does the A7III let you shoot at a lower ISO in S log? My a7sii has a minimum ISO of 1600 when I use S Log 2
Yup, you shoot as low as 800.
And I would say it’s about equivalent exposure as Cine4 at 200
Good info.Well done!
I don't get it ... what is the before (the washed out version before the line swipes over it and makes it more colorful) and what is the after?
The "before" is the footage straight out of the camera, and the "after" is after the color-grading process.
The “before” is loaded with color profiles that purposely wash out all of the color to get the image as flat as possible. This is so you can bring it on your computer in post production and bring the image to life with color correction/grading. That is the “after” footage.
what picture profile on the A7 III is cine4?
Mateo Villarreal you assign them however you want.
Do you have any lut for cine4 if possible share ur cine4 setting.
I am trying to set up Slog2 video, and I want to enter +2 or +3 stops of extra exposure, so I set ISO to manual at 800. And then I tried to set exposure compensation, but it said that I can't do it in manual ISO mode. So I thought, "No problem, I will just set the ISO for 100 and that will simulate +3 stops." Nope. The camera won't let me set below 800 in Slog2 mode.
So what is the best way to get +2 or +3 on each shot? Do I just need to see what the meter recommends, and then just open the aperture up 3 stops more? The shutter will always be on 1/50 since I will shoot at 23.976fps.
sorry for the late reply. but that is something that you will have to test, I do not really look at my exposure reading, I have gotten used to just looking at the back of the camera and knowing where I am at in my camera.
What I do is I use Zebras and the Histogram. I set my zebras to 100+ so that when I do see zebras, I know that those highlights are clipped. And then I look at my histogram to see where the majority of my exposure sits. So its more of finding a balance, I do not want zebras, but I dont want majority of my histogram sitting on the left.
You will need to set your ISO to Auto, and then set your exposure comp to +2. When you set the ISO to Auto and use SLOG2/3 gammas, the minimum ISO base will be 800. If you set ISO manually, then exposure compensation cannot be used. Exposure compensation is only for when your iSO is set to Auto. Note that in Video mode exposure comp cannot go beyond +2/-2. I hope this helps
great video! I have the same camera, but after shooting S-Log2, there is a lot of noise in my videos. I've been researching how to remove this noise for weeks. I hope someone can help me about this...
Honestly for me, Cine4 is the easiest, most convenient and best looking
I thought the same too, but I now use SLOG 2.
If you don’t mind me asking, what do you set ur exposure level to.
I've done alot of research on exposing S-Log2 Footage. Cody Blue has a great video on it Also, Henbu and Jason Anthony but most of the time Its basically Over-Exposing by 2 Stops to recover as much in Post as you can. S-Log 3 Looks the best to my eyes but with all the work I hear that it takes to Grade Its not really worth it. I'd rather go with Slog 2 or Cine for Night Shots.
@@Notxarb why did you switch to Slog2 ?
S log 2 is much easier, because it is more forgiving in terms of exposure. the straight curve das not change contrast when overexposed, and you can overexpose 2 stops for less noise....
I didn’t notice you were in Denver! I just ordered my Sony A7iii! Would you wanna shoot some stuff together when I get it? I’m from Denver
s log 2 + gamut3.cini?
I love the result of my LUTs using the SLOG 2 footage, but noise is visible. How could we get rid of this noise?
NeatVideo is an amazing software to do just so.
I did not use noise reduction in my footage.
In SLog2 mode you have to overxpose a little, something like +1.5 stop.
it seems like cine4 require less post production handling?
Yes, If you are new to grading, I would probably go with Cine4. But I now shoot with Slog2 on the A7III
Are the clips still available in the mentioned link? I am getting an error message.
Sorry, I had to take the clips down because I needed space in my drive.
Braxton Klavins Is there anyway I can get those clips?
@@midhunrajkm4461 No, sorry, I deleted them a long time ago
Braxton Klavins Thanks for the response 🙂
I notice some very strange color anomalies in SLOG especially 3. Very magenta blotches, which become noticeable in the flatter tones, like the clouds, especially toward the end of the video. Makes me like Cine4 a bit better. Maybe there's some settings that can be made in camera for the Log profiles that help to minimize that undesirable magenta effect. I want to film more with this camera, but I don't want there to be so much color discrepancy in places after grading. Also, there are some strange colorizations in areas, like the purple windows (is this a polarizing effect that was built into those windows? did it look that way with the naked eye), the road sign was a little too hot and the extra blue windows. I guess those sorts of things are for the most part preference, as to how colorful something is desired to be. I felt the skin tones though on your human subject were best on the S-Log3. Too much color in the skin in the other profiles, making for blotchier color areas from light to shadow. I have seen some bad yellow blotches while using Slog3 in my room. Very bad. I wonder how messing around with the internal settings will help advance the look of these profiles though. I found a good edit to PP2 to use in low light from another UA-cam channel that reduces the noise so well, I don't know if I'd shoot low light scenes with neon lights/event lighting any other way now. I hope people keep messing with Slog and Cine4 to optimize them to their best potential use. Thanks for the video comparison!
SONY Alpha cameras with 8 bit video color depth, like the A7 III, are notorious for having magenta casts in the shadows, as well as color shifts that manifest when changing exposure. All you have to do is connect the camera to a color accurate monitor that supports LUTs, like the Atomos Ninja V, load a Rec709 conversion LUT and you will see the magenta shifts in the shadows as you adjust ISO. The sad reality is that the SLOG implementation in SONY 8-bit cameras is limited, therefore using SLOG in them comes with noticeable faults (like color banding in areas of subtle color changes like the sky). I really like the look of SLOG 3, and according to SONY it was designed to simulate the look of Cineon film print. Unfortunately, I have pretty much given up trying to shoot SLOG on my A7III because of the color banding issues, and I have been leveraging Cine 2 gamma a lot more often.
yeah I'm not sure u will see much difference because that camera only shows about 11 to 12 stops of dr. cine 4 and slog may have the same amount of dr in this camera.
yea, and then I do not think 8bit is enough for slog3
So basically, it doesn't really matter? Slog 2 gives us best DR? Anyways all 3 are great.
깔끔한 비교~ 좋은 참고 되었습니다.
hi, can share some slog footage Sony a73 for test grading
Nico Manansala I’m sorry, I don’t have any. I switched to Fuji a little over a year ago.
@@Notxarb how was it compare to a7iii? you going to switch back to a7s3?
@@NicoManansala I am not, I have switched between so many different cameras and I think that I have found to like the fuji the best. The main reason is because I kept getting caught up on FOMO on different cameras, but the Fuji is good enough for the work that I do. It shoots 10bit 4k 60fps and has great color science for the fraction of the price of the Sony.
It is APSC, but the only thing different for me is the use of focal lengths. So I am just waiting to see what fuji announces next in their video line up.
Braxton Klavins the autofocus is good? Or IBIS?
Yes, the autofocus is good. And I don’t have the XT4 which has IBIS. I have the XT3, so I am not sure how it is. People have said it’s similar to Sony’s though. What I can say is that I thought that the Fuji XT-30 was on par with the Sony A73, the XT30 is like Sony’s a6xxx line. And then with low light, i think the XT3 is good enough, I try to get as much light as I can in my shots anyway. I don’t need to shoots with candles.
Cine 4 was great - I don't own a Sony is it difficult to grade.
Mark Shirley I started off grading cine 4. Once I understood how to grade that then I could grade slog. It can be difficult since things can be sooooo flat but this is something that takes some time to work at.
I’ve done this and it feels like slog3 just doesn’t look as good as other profiles. But again, with all this, it’s personal preference
Surprised you didn't get that much banding and noise with the black promist, when I did that with slog 3 with my diffusion filter, it was unusable even without the filter (maybe its just mine?).
Also, what color mode did you use (color space not color gamma)
It's because it's 8 bit video, it isn't designed for it lol
Hey man, what did you set you blacks to and gamma to for your cine 4?
S-LOG3 best looking
It takes me too long to grade it though.
Which lut or color grade do you apply in post production with S-LOG3 ?
I actually use Davinci Resolve and use the “color space transform” it’s more than a LUT, I am basically converting the Sony profiles to ARRI
@@Notxarb Thanks, I'm on Resolve to, so you don't use existing LUTs but do you own corrections? I'm new to this, seems to me that LUTs are just presets for color gradings but I wonder if it's better to use one LUT or another for a specific LOG... Don't know if I made myself clear haha
I use LUTS to get me started. But with resolve, there is a feature called “color space transform” and that can convert Slog into a different profile, and I convert it to an ARRI profile.
I now shoot with Fuji and they have a profile similar to Slog called f-log, I use a fujifilm supplied lut to the FLog and then grade from there.
Honestly, it takes your own testing and trying to figure out what works best for you.
8bit codec is not good if used with slog2 and 3.
I prefer Cine2 with sgamut3.cine with some tricks.
what tricks? :)
They All Almost identical But if I had a choice I will go with CINE4 .. Its the only one that shows detail when actually recording. All the other PROFILES while recording are too foggy to determine if what you aiming at is focussed. But with CINE4 you can see if its out of focus .. it will be a great disappointment if you used an SLOG profile you barely can see while recording & go home to find out the shot was not what you expected .. ..
Try the Gamma Assist function - it simulates a grading profile over slog footage and makes it much easier to nail focus.
Teach me your craft. I can never match them.
The blues look fake on cine and slog 2. The girls jeans (1:11) and the blue building (3:14) are the most obvious.
obviously SLOG2 has the best dynamic range
Tony Tan SLOG3 has the most range
s log 3 has more color range than others
This may be true, but I feel like I can’t bring the information back. But that’s just probably the way I color graded
3:30 SLOG3 very beautiful skin tone
gamut3.cine best
I have been thinking about giving it a try. I have used it here and there
Postproducción of slog3 is Better
Its harder to grade