Pastor's HONEST Response to Latter-day Saint Questions
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2023
- Why did Pastor Jeff recently take down a video? Is he truly open to the Book of Mormon being true? Here are his honest responses to Hello Saints commenters.
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between mainstream Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons Christians? What do Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormons and non-LDS Christians.
If you enjoyed this, you might enjoy this video of Pastor Jeff going to a Latter-day Saint church for the first time: • Pastor's FIRST TIME Go... l
#latterdaysaints #lds #mormonism - Розваги
Hello Saint commenters have the best questions. What are some questions I should answer in future videos like this?
Thank you for your honesty and sincerity. I love when you do conversations with Greg Matsen. I can't think of a better person to represent the LDS perspective than Greg. I grew up in the Bible belt of Texas, and these conversations have helped to clear up a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings that I had with many Protestant groups, including Evangelicals. I love you, Jeff. Keep it up!
Since you have been on this journey and come to a new understanding of those in the LDS faith have you found yourself explaining/defending them to other Christians or members of your own congregation? Is there any situation or story that stands out in particular so far? Especially maybe one where the light turned on and things changed to peace & understanding as well?
Pastor Jeff. Great job. You represent us evangelicals well.
On the translation of BOM, weren't the original plates lost. How can we know if it was truly interpreted correctly? I'm a user of the ESV study bible from Ligonier. Best one I've ever used. IHS Steve
If God wants to save everyone and works isn't required, why is it required to believe in him? Why can't he just save everyone regardless?
Thank you pastor! As an evangelical in Utah, I am thankful for your ministry! There are quite a few good ones out here and the churches are growing. New plants are happening I feel like monthly. Thank you for sharing your love and we are working on discipleship!
Pastor Jeff is bridging centuries old gaps.
Do you know how it feels to be consistently told that I am not a Christian? At the age of 8 was given the opportunity to choose Christ through baptism and I took it. At 12 I dutifully passed the sacrament to my congregation understanding no matter how immaturely that Jesus died for our sins. I was given that opportunity and I took it. At 14 I was offered the opportunity to prepare this sacred ordinance for my congregation, and I took it. At 16 I was offered the opportunity to bless this sacred ordinance and I took it.
At 19 I was offered the opportunity to spend 2 years in a foreign country preaching and teaching repentance to those who would choose to listen, and I took it.
At 26 I almost chose to take my own life as I struggled with an addiction for 14 years of my life. An addiction that maniacally consistently removed the strength of my choice.
I ultimately chose to NOT do that.
(Insert the ability to make this comment)
At 28 I chose to move states, leave a great job. At 30 I met the love of my life and chose to marry her in on of our temples.
At 32 here I stand writing this comment looking back at a life of choices. Not the least of which was always over and over again striving to choose Christ the author and finisher of my faith.
I am a Christian, just like everyone here who professes a belief in the One True God, The King of Kings, The Holy One of Israel, Jehovah, The Son of God, he who was prophesied to come and Redeem mankind. He who died to Redeem mankind and the only name under Heaven whereby we can be saved.
I have not earned any salvation, I’ve only earned the opportunity to experience that Salvation because I have Chosen Christ.
You may think I believe in a different Jesus. I don’t. You may not see me as a Christian and that’s fine.
But all my life I have sought to Choose Jesus over and over again, and it’s a choice I continue to make.
Your Latter Day Saint friends have a much deeper faith and commitment to Jesus than you may realize. It is my wish and prayer that Pastor Jeff has realized this infinitely better than he did before. And thanks to him, I hope you are too!
Keep The Faith!
Your Brother In Christ
- Jacob
I have a very simple question based on your statement that you believe in the same Jesus Christ as the "Christians". It is a very simple yes or no answer.
Is Jesus the spirit brother of Lucifer?
@@johnwolfram2689yes, as we all are spirit brothers and sisters of each other, according to our understanding of our premortal existence. Love you brother!
@@toddhebdon The Bible teaches that Lucifer was an angel. At no time was Jesus a created angel, so it's impossible for them to be spirit brothers. This is why Evangelicals say that LDS are worshipping different Jesus'. If Jesus wasn't God, existent forever then He would have been unable to fulfill the prophesy in Gen 3, and pay the full penalty for our sin. His righteousness would not be able to become our righteousness. These things we believe are different and they are crucial to a saving faith as we understand the full message of the Bible and how to be reunited with God forever, as Jeff explains so beautifully.
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 Thank you for your comments, this gets back to our differing view and insights we hold as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, We believe we are all spirit sons and daughters of our Heaven Father because of the enhanced understanding of the premortal life. We all were considered to be the host's of heaven and angels. Because there is only one father of us all, as in The Father, the son, and the holy Spirit, (Three different beings) That leaves us all as spiritual siblings. I'm sure you are saying (Where is that in the Bible?) That is where we say, it's not, but is given to us through additional revelation. You may also be saying, (That's not what mainstream Christianity believes though.) We just smile and say, exactly! We are happy to share our truths to them when they are ready.
@@toddhebdon Actually it is in the Bible, 'Father of All Lights" In James. Lucifer was a son of the Morning who fell from heaven due to rebellion and so was Jesus Christ also a son of the morning who didn't fall from heaven as Lucifer did.. That's why they are brothers. They come from the same Father.
I have been a Latter-day Saint since 2004. Prior to that, I was a Presbyterian. My then-girlfriend, now my wife of 19 years, introduced me to her faith. When I read The Book of Mormon and met with the missionaries, I concluded the teachings of the LDS church made more sense than the Presbyterian Church. However, I didn’t actually convert to the LDS church until I received a polite but forceful prompting to do so, which I concluded could not have been my own rationale but revelation.
I loved my Presbyterian upbringing and all that I learned at the feet of great teachers there, including my dad. And I love even more all that I have learned as a Latter-day Saint that Presbyterians don't know (yet).
Yet many Mormons have had "forceful promptings" that they should become Presbyterian. Of course you'd probably argue that those promptings weren't from God.
@@Natalie82170 Really? Specifically Presbyterian? Do you have an example?
@@ardeneberly4450 Would you like a name and address? or are you suggesting I'm lying like Joseph Smith?
@@Natalie82170 Natalie generally speaking the Protestants don’t force you to stay, they don’t come around and visit if you left some might wonder if they cared. On the other hand one sign of being a cult I’d coercion or force. My son- law when he and my daughter lived with us for two years D. One Sunday announced he was going to a Mormon ward. He didn’t go back but for the next year and 1/2 they kept coming after him . He was Mormon years before and living with us and going to church & prayer meeting he didn’t go back but it was always on his mind. They would call him and wouldn’t give up m. No he did not embrace our Evangelical beliefs concerning the Bible because he kept having question after question. What did Jesus say to Thomas? Stop doubting & believe John 20:27
(Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God)
Thank you Pastor Jeff.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss I agree brother. Preach on! That is a great scripture. The word is Jesus Christ. He has satisfied the demands of Justice and Mercy through the eternal atonement. His word cuts both ways two edged. It cuts to deliver Justice and it also cuts to divide the way for Mercy.
@@Jozeemoss @Jozeemoss
I love the Hebrews, too! Hebrews 5 states:
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
I am sp grateful to have finally listened to God and to Hos servants in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has both Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, with Jesus Christ as the great High Priest!
@@stephentickal2757 @stephentickal2757 Romans 3:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1 Corinthians 6:
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 6:
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Mark 15:
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
Jesus paid the price plain and simple. In regards to
Hebrews 5:
6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Some would say Paul contradicts everyone's paid for access to our LORD by way of ritualistic right of passage. Others say Paul is speaking to emulate the example King of Salem Melchisedec.
As far as
Hebrews 5:
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Saving faith produces works. Works without saving faith is dead the order matters.
Ephesians 2
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said to him, thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
Find God with the triad that is reflected in all of us (body, mind, soul) (tangible, logical, spiritual)
@@fraleyiii Amen!
John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God makes the Gospel simple for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but clinging to pride instead of leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
My testimony:
When I went to college I became great friends with my roommate. She was of another faith. We hung out together and talked together and were good friends. Then her church friends decided that I needed to be "saved" from my religion. They started leaving scriptures on my bed and confusing me with interpretations of the Bible. They gave me a lot of anti-mormon literature and really shook my faith to the core. At the same time I was taking college classes where the professors were telling me truth was relative. There was no absolute truth. You only believe what you were taught to believe and that's your truth and someone else has a different truth and their truth is also just as true as yours.....so basically truth was whatever you believed or wanted truth to be. That was also confusing. I began to see all religions as hoaxes. That they were all corrupt and deceptive. That God didn’t exist and it was all lies and wishful thinking. I was becoming an atheist.
But I was caught in a conundrum. I definitely didn’t want to be decieved or believe in a hoax or a lie. I didn’t want to waste my life chasing a fairytale and then once I'm dead I'm just dead and cease to exist. I refused to do that. But at the same time something kept nugging me.....well, what if God does exist? What if I die and meet God and then go ......Oh crap! I blew it! I messed up! What if he really did exist? Could I forgive myself if I denied him? I wrestled between these two questions in my heart for quite a while and decided that I needed to find the answer.
I decided I would ask God if he existed.
I prayed to God in great earnestness and humility to know if he was REAL. I truly wanted to know the truth of the matter as I couldn’t figure it out. As I prayed to God I felt a very powerful and loving presence near me. Someone was there. Someone was listening. My prayers were not just going up and bouncing off the ceiling. Someone was there and listening. I took that as a sign that God was real. Then tons of questions entered my mind and heart.......well God if you are real then what do you want me to do? How do I serve you or worship you? Where is the truth? What church is true? Where do I go? What church should I join? Do you even have a true church on the earth? What do I do then if you don’t? What do you want me to do? I asked these same questions again and again. The only answer that woild come again and again was this: "read the Book of Mormon" I was taken back and confused. NO! I don’t want to read the Book of Mormon. How is that going to help me with these questions? I don’t believe in that Book or the church. Why are you telling me to do that? But again and again the same and only answer I would get was read the Book of Mormon. This went on for months and months. I finally relented to the prompting and said ok Lord, I will read the Book of Mormon one last time.....BUT, I'm going to compare it to the Bible and if I find ANYTHING a miss or contradictory......I'm throwing away this Book and the religion attached to it forever and I'm never looking back to it again. I then began my studies. I poured and poured over those two books intensely. I tried to find anything I could honestly point to where they contradicted. I couldn’t find it. Then as I was reading along in Alma 32. I came across a passage on faith. He talked about how faith was not pure knowledge but that faith was true and a belief in that which is true. It said to "try the experiment" to plant the seed of faith in your heart and nourish it and let it grow and work in you. If it is true and it is a good seed it will edify you. It will become "delicious" to you. It will eventually turn into knowledge. It will fill your soul with joy! If it is a bad seed. It will not grow and it will not edify you. But if it is a true seed and you neglect the seed by your doubts and unbelief then what was beginning to grow will wither and die because of your neglect. This spoke to me. I read it again and again trying to understand them and I began to let these words sink deep into my soul. It said try the experiment....even if you dont have faith but only a desire to believe, let this desire work in you until you can give way for a particle of faith, for a portion of my [Alma's] words to be able to plant the seed in your heart. I pondered that and thought about that again and again. I then got on my knees and confessed to God that I did have desires to believe but I was afraid to believe in a hoax or a lie. I just wanted the truth and that was all I cared about. Not my own truth but what was actual truth. What was an absolute truth. I then prayed with all my heart and soul and asked the God of truth to tell me: Is the Book of Mormon true?
I immediately felt the most intense and incredible feeling of love and peace sweep over my entire body starting from my head all the way down through my toes. I instantly felt so much love and light and peace and knowledge....pure knowledge enter into me. I instantly knew....without any shadow of doubt. The Boik of Mormon IS TRUE! I instantly knew that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and that he translated it by the power of God, exactly as he said he did. I Knew!!! I Knew it! All doubt and confusion instantly left. I had absolute knowledge! I have continued from then until now. God has shown me more miracles and more truths since then. For you will receive no witness until after the trial of your faith. I am humbly grateful to God for taking the time to show a poor, ignorant confused girl his truths so I wouldn't wander aimlessly in this confused world. I Know this church is true....and my knowledge comes from God and not man.
Love Wendy
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Beautiful. Thank You for your truth filled testimony.
If you ask with the true and sincere heart, you will definitely know. 💫✨💫
@@Jozeemoss
Why do you call good evil? Why are you so angry and reject my testimony? Why do you fear truth and say it is of no worth?
I feel much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was mad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the persecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise.
So it is with me. My experience and knowledge comes from God and not man. I know it and I know that God knows it and your condemnation matters not. God be the judge between us. I will pray for your soul.
@@wdychr5938
What is fiction and why?Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction that is at odds with Bible and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies which disqualifies his authority. Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament oldest being found again in the Dead Sea Scrolls year Anno Domini 70. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 35 years after the death and resurrection and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, mind, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, heart, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, feeling, soul, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but clinging to pride instead of leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
Born and raised in the church. Read the Book of Mormon through plenty, graduated from seminary, even got a mission call. Didn't go because I didnt then and still don't believe in putting works before faith. The doctrine that I would be preaching was not logical or tangible. Faith is logical, faith is tangible in the natural world, as well as the giving you a confirmation through the spirit. The only witness that is preached from the LDS church is the spiritual while leaving the other two of the three witnesses of our LORD out. Faith/Gospel is Logical, Tangible & Spiritual.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
What ancient Egyptian Sounlike Like - and how we know
ua-cam.com/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/v-deo.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ua-cam.com/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/v-deo.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ua-cam.com/video/goRh2amv60A/v-deo.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ua-cam.com/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/v-deo.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ua-cam.com/video/2AVksae-Frk/v-deo.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
Wow! That's quite a litney of stuff. I am amazed at your reasoning. I don't understand how you can deny the holy ghost and say it is no worth? The gospel is not logical? I find it very logical. It makes complete sense to me. But you can believe whatever you want. There are UA-cam videos and articles galore to support both sides of this argument. What commandment was it that you refused to follow that has made you so hardened?
There are many philosophies out there and anyone can dig and find supports for whatever they want or think. But I believe the truth comes from God. If I want to know the truth of a matter I believe God will give it to me......seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you. Should I just go listen to some UA-cam videos and articles instead and close my ears and say God is a lier and doesn't speak to man? Why do you lack faith in asking God for truth? Or does truth not matter and only your own suppositions? The hearts of men have hidden agendas and/or are deceived themselves. No man knows all truth. But God does. I put my trust in Him. He is real, he is alive, He never lies, he is the giver of truth and mysteries to them that ask and have faith. If God calls a prophet and I question whether or not he's sent from God then I would go to God and ask Him. I have confidence in God that He will let me know if that man was called by God or not. You can look at all your UA-cam videos and believe what you want, but as for me I will trust in God.
"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed." James 1:5-6.
If this is not true then the Bible is not true and/or God is a lier.
I pray you can let go your anger and calling of good evil. I pray you can believe and ask God and repent and humble yourself to receive whatever answers you seek, that you might know the truth and be truly set free from sin and error.
I just want to say thank you for all that you’ve done to help bridge the divide that’s existed between our religions. I grew up in the LDS church and was constantly ridiculed, told I was damned to hell, etc by other religions. To the point that I gave up trying to make friends with anyone outside my religion. I wish others would follow your example and be open and respectful to everyone, regard of their beliefs. We have so much more in common than not in common. Let’s lift each other us on our personal journeys to Christ and set aside our differences.
HumbleServant, I can relate to what you said but my experience was more during my mission in South Carolina and Georgia during the early 1980s. Religious persecution was very intense for us during those years, I was threatened, had people turn their dogs on us, was told to leave or be shot, I had a companion who was spit upon and a driver threw a bottle of beer and hit another companion in the back! This happened in the so-called Bible belt among people who said they were saved by the blood of Jesus. I learned after my mission was over to be very, very careful trusting people with my beliefs.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@stevehumble8865
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What ancient Egyptian Sounlike Like - and how we know
ua-cam.com/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/v-deo.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ua-cam.com/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/v-deo.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ua-cam.com/video/goRh2amv60A/v-deo.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ua-cam.com/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/v-deo.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ua-cam.com/video/2AVksae-Frk/v-deo.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
One small note on ordinances and all that.
Everyone who ever lived will have an equal and fair chance to accept Christ. And accept his ordinances. There is no”I missed this ordinance so I’m damned”.
That will not be the case. It’s up to us to accept that ordinance, but it will be done regardless. Much like the atonement in general. The atonement was done regardless. But it’s up to us to accept it or not.
This is a key point. Temple work does not earn us a right that others lack. In Christ’s millennial reign, ordinances will be performed for all of God’s children. We are blessed to serve God in His holy house. However, His plan will roll forward regardless.
100% agree with this comment. The ordinances alone are no what saves us. It’s 100% Christ and He is our Judge. However, as our redeemer He has required of us to enter into COVENANTS with Him and the Father and to strive to obey them in order to fully partake of all His grace and mercy. We enter into these covenants through the ordinances conducted by Priesthood holders. There is no people mentioned in Acts that accepted Christ without being baptized unto repentance by a Priesthood holder who received the Priesthood from Christ directly or indirectly.
According to Joseph Smith, all those who fail to reach exaltation will be damned
because they have not followed all the ordinances.
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/36481_eng.pdf
“God has decreed that all who will not obey His voice shall not escape the damnation
of hell. What is the damnation of hell? To go with that society who have not obeyed
His commands... I know that all men will be damned if they do not come in the way
which He hath opened, and this is the way marked out by the word of the Lord.”
“The great misery of departed spirits in the world of spirits, where they go after
death, is to know that they come short of the glory that others enjoy and that they
might have enjoyed themselves, and they are their own accusers.”
“There is no pain so awful as that of suspense. This is the punishment of the wicked;
their doubt, anxiety and suspense cause weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
“A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, They shall go
into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone [see Revelation 21:8]. The torment
of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and
brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man ...
“... Some shall rise to the everlasting burnings of God, for God dwells in everlasting
burnings, and some shall rise to the damnation of their own filthiness, which is as
exquisite a torment as the lake of fire and brimstone.”
It’s natural to have deeply held beliefs and biases that prevent any of us from being fully open to personal revelation from God. Anyone from any background of faith can feel good and have peace with what they know and how they live. So it’s important, as this channel is highlighting, that we demonstrate great understanding, humility and civility when discussing differences in doctrine and allow and individual’s agency when deciding on the tenets of their faith. “We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and all men the same privilege. Let them worship how, where and what they may”. ❤
Thank you
Preach!😊
Absolutely. This is what it is about. I believe the issue many took with his reaction video, myself included if I'm honest, was her appearance of a lack of humility and seeking to make peace.
I hope more, on every side of the table, can learn to make peace and understand that even though there may be differences in beliefs, the core doctrine that "Christ is the way" is the same for all of us.
@@DiscGolfPlayer , and one day we will all put aside our earthly pride and realize the full measure of Ephesians chapter 4; and experience the true beauty in our relationships across all faiths, backgrounds and diverse beliefs, beyond what we understand now, as laid out in Ephesians 4:13, “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ…”. I look forward to that day ❤️
@lifthearth As do I and many others. May God be with us as we strive for this goal.
As an evangelical whom has come to truly love people of the LDS faith, I’m thankful you critiqued the upload by our sister Melisa Dougherty. I’m equally thankful for the feedback from those who were offended by her content because it made me more aware of how easy it is to not love our neighbour as we are commanded. Arrogance and haughtiness aren’t always easy to see but by those who are affected by the overflow of one’s heart. I look forward to seeing where the Holy Spirit enlightens me of these sins and brings me through maturation and healing to becoming more like Jesus. I’m eager to love others more the way we are commanded to and see what God does through this. The life of a disciple of
Christ Jesus is truly supernatural.
I see what you did there brother. Very crafty response indeed! Kudo's to you and your "insight"
@@danbodily9129 it’s sister but no matter. Crafty?
@@kennethmadsen thank you kind sir.
I mean, regardless of how we worship our Heavenly Father & Jesus Christ, isn't it just unifying to know we are all Christians and love our Savior. Why bicker about the nuances?
@@Mounty621 because what you see as a “nuance” may be an egregious heresy to God
Wow! This was a fantastic video! I am not LDS, but I am an on fire evengelical Christian! Your explanation of several things in this video are inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is all about Him and not us! He is the way, the truth, and life. There are no other gods. Your explanation of how the Bible was translated was said so beautifully and accurately. THANK YOU! Thank you for continuing to show so much love and respect for anyone, whether they are LDS, Evangelical, Catholic, or any other religion. This is what God asks us to do. Praise God in whom all mercies flow praise Him all children here below. Praise Him above ye Heavenly hosts, praise Father Son and Holy Ghost! Amen!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss @Jozeemoss
I love the Hebrews, too! Hebrews 5 states:
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
I am sp grateful to have finally listened to God and to Hos servants in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has both Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, with Jesus Christ as the great High Priest!
@@stephentickal2757 Romans 3:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1 Corinthians 6:
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 6:
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Mark 15:
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
Jesus paid the price plain and simple. In regards to
Hebrews 5:
6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Some would say Paul contradicts everyone's paid for access to our LORD by way of ritualistic right of passage. Others say Paul is speaking to emulate the example King of Salem Melchisedec.
As far as
Hebrews 5:
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Saving faith produces works. Works without saving faith is dead the order matters.
Ephesians 2
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said to him, thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
Find God with the triad that is reflected in all of us (body, mind, soul) (tangible, logical, spiritual)
Articles of Faith :8
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
We’re studying the New Testament this year, and I have become acquainted with a new translation of the New Testament by Thomas Wayment who works at BYU. This edition is a superb translation, and is a huge blessing to those of us who want to better understand the New Testament.
I used be wary of new translations of things. I grew up with the King James Version of the Bible being the standard. The translators working for the King did a wonderful job on the translation. But they had their problems. They translated the Hebrew word for “standard” as three different English words: Standard, Ensign, Banner. That may seem like a small thing, but when the Hebrew prophets are exactly specific in which words they use, and exactly consistent in their use for describing the same thing, small errors like that can become troublesome. Also, when describing the plagues of Egypt, they describe hail stones mixed with fire. Why? Because they were completely unfamiliar with meteorites. So instead of having the imagery of a meteor shower destroying the crops of the Egyptians and burning up the vegetation, we are left with an image of snowy, fiery hail falling in Egypt.
I’ve since become familiar with newer, and quite frankly better, translations of The Bible, and of different books in the Bible. That isn’t to say that the KJV isn’t useful. It is. It’s the same language used in the Restoration. So the language in the KJV that is so exactly precise and consistent, is the same throughout the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. All the early brethren and sisters wrote and prophesied in that language. But that was a long time ago.
This new translation of the New Testament cites a passage from Brigham Young which I was familiar with. “If [the Bible] be translated incorrectly, and there is a scholar on the earth who professes to be a Christian, and he can translate it any better than King James’s translators did it, he is under obligation to do so, or the curse is upon him. If I understood Greek and Hebrew as some may profess to do, and I knew the Bible was not correctly translated, I should feel myself bound by the law of justice to the inhabitants of the earth to translate that which is incorrect and give it just as it was spoken anciently. Is that proper? Yes, I would be under obligation.”[1]
This brought up a discussion between me and a beloved friend. This friend said that they were wary of a new translation like this because the KJV is the recognized canon of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. This new translation is not.
To me, that seemed like an argument of fear and insecurity. After getting nowhere about the KJV, I asked my friend (who is fluent in Spanish), well what about the Spanish-speaking members of the Restored Church? There is no KJV in Spanish. That’s strictly an English-Speaking version. The Restored Church does not have an “official” version of the Spanish Bible. And what about any other language besides English? The KJV has nothing to offer them.
Then I thought about the 8th Article of Faith. “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.”
I took that to another level. We believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God, without hesitation, because it was translated, transcribed, or dictated by the power of God, and with the use of the Urim and Thumim. It is therefore as Joseph claimed: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” (History of the Church, 4:461.)
But that is only the Book of Mormon in English. Every other language edition of the Book of Mormon has gone through a translation by mere men, without the aid of the Urim and Thumim. The 8th Article of Faith was written before other language editions had come out. We could well-say now that we believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God, as far as it has been translated correctly. The Book of Mormon is currently translated into over 110 languages. Some of those editions are only fractions of the whole book, because of the difficulty in finding translators.
There is always something lost in translation. Always. The scriptures are so incredibly complex and layered. There are so many different ways to analyze them, and each manner of study will deepen our understanding of the message. It’s like viewing the cosmos across all spectrums. Our understanding of the universe would be very limited indeed if all we used were visible light. But we can observe across many levels: ultra-violet, x-ray, gamma ray, gravity waves, electromagnetic waves, waves on the audible spectrums, etc.
The same is with the scriptures, and hence multiple translations.
Hugh Nibley identified the following ways in which Avraham Gileadi analyzes the Book of Isaiah: Types, parallels, symbols, metaphors, abstractions, code names, allegories, associations, comparisons, rhetoric, structures, contexts, connections, synonyms, categories, nuances, analogies, implications, prefigurings, insights, suggestions, paradoxes, foreshadowings, leaps of understanding, etc.
Who knew that there was so much layered in just the Book of Isaiah? But this layering is across all scripture. Scripture comes from God. The mysteries and hidden meanings that are concealed in the scriptures come from God. Loving God with all of our minds includes using our intellect to study out the layering structures that He caused to be included in the scriptures.
This is how we progress.
If you don’t understand the message to begin with, how can you do a good job of translating it? That’s something that I, as an English-speaker have taken for granted. Having books of scripture like the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine and Covenants given so directly from Deity into my language is a blessing that I should receive more graciously and gratefully.
So something is always lost in translation. But something can be gained too. Scholars like Wayment, who are experts in these languages, are putting out new translations and new versions of the scriptures. Are they perfect? No. Can we gain something from them? Absolutely. And we shouldn’t limit ourselves to just one version. I try to read everything I can on the scriptures. I try to see absolutely every angle I can. How can I know if what I am reading is right or true? The same way I know anything in the scriptures is right or true. I study it out, I pray about it, and I wait for an answer. This sometimes takes a very long time. But this is the process.
I recently acquired 3 volumes of the Apocrypha. I have friends and family who scoffed at the effort of reading it, because again, it is not “official” scripture of the Restored Church. So I read them from D&C 91:
“Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha-There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly; Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated. Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom”
Too often I hear people read this and understand it to say that because it is not needful that it be translated, it is not needful to read and study it. But that’s not it at all. The Lord told Joseph that it didn’t need to be re-translated, that the version we have is mostly translated correctly. And that those who read it with the Spirit will be enlightened and receive benefit. How can we go wrong with a promise like that?
Are we too afraid and insecure that we cannot accept new scripture? 2 Nephi 29:3 comes to mind “many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible”. Let’s put it to the test. Read everything you can. Study it. Search it. Pray about it. And then see if you benefit from it at all. See if that seed grows in your heart. See if the word becomes delicious to you. Alma 32:28-33
[1] Brigham Young, “Remarks,” New Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, August 27, 1871, in Deseret Evening News, September 2, 1871, 2.
100% Agreed. Excellent job!
I felt the Spirit to your comment and am grateful for you posting it. I want to clarify to readers here that the 2 Nephi 29:3 scripture isn’t referring to other translations of the Bible. It’s referring to God revealing additional scriptures besides the Bible mainly the Book of Mormon.
You should compare the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon with the current one.
@@tony-northcountry3272 I have. What’s your point? All that is different is spelling errors, grammatical mistakes and the creation of verses, chapters, references, and summaries. None of these things changes the doctrine, narrative, or stories.
@caguas97 well said.
Jeff, you began your quest (Hello Saints) with curiosity and questions but you seem to have learned enough about our culture to feel comfortable in removing that curiosity mask - the one that came across as “bridge building” or “trying to understand” the Latter-day Saints so as to not “talk past one another.”
From this particular video it was clear to me that you really hope all of us, some of us or even just one of us will turn away from our “works-based” belief system (which I believe you still think it is) and accept your only true way. If this is your true and sincere desire then that good intention would be, in and of itself, a good work.
Let's face it, we all do “works” (“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” James 2:17-18) but evidently we do “works” for different reasons. For some of us it is a reflection of our faith and plays no active part in salvation while others of us demonstrate our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and trust that what we do in His name helps us to become more like Him (“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” Matthew 5:48)
When you got married you signed your marriage license. When you purchased a home or a car you signed a contract. Can you imagine any one of those agreements being legal with your say-so, a cross-my-heart or a pinky-promise alone? Applying your signature made them legal, and made them yours. Ordinances are like signatures on our agreements to obey the Lord's commandments. (“And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.” Exodus 18:20) (“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 5:16) For example, baptism wasn't a suggestion but a requirement. (“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5) Commandments mean something. Our obedience to His commandments puts us on a path to return to Him.
I think it all comes down to this:
• Jesus Christ (Jehovah) provided the law and commanded His people (through His prophets) to obey them.
• Jesus Christ came in the flesh to fulfill that law (“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17-18) and then provided a higher law (Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5) and commanded His people to be obedient. (“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5:19) He didn't come to destroy the Law of Moses but to fulfill it through His sacrifice and reveal a higher law.
• The Sanhedrin defended “the law,” to the point of wanting Jesus Christ crucified in order to preserve their power and their (mis)understandings of what the law had become after a few centuries of apostasy.
• The Apostles were instructed to preach the gospel (“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Mark 16:15-16).
• Eventually the apostles were martyred and the Church fell into apostasy.
• Apostasy removes revelation and the guidance of prophets and/or apostles.
• In Paul’s first epistle to the Thessalonians (chapter 5) he teaches about the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. And in Paul’s second epistle to the Thessalonians he teaches that the Second Coming wouldn’t come until after an apostasy. (“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.” 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3)
• It had to be a restoration because the apostatized Church had
lost its authority for revelation,
unauthorized individuals met in council to reinterpret doctrine and the personality of deity,
eventually splintered into hundreds (even thousands) of denominations and each one defended “the word” as they had grown to understand (or misunderstand) it, and
had become “old wine.” (“And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.” Luke 5:37-39)
• Jesus Christ came in these latter days to the Prophet Joseph Smith to gather Israel in preparation of His Second Coming as prophesied in Ephesians 1:10 “That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:”
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was restored by Jesus Christ Himself, named it Himself, and called new fishermen (and others) as He did Peter, James and John. He presented new wine in a new bottle.
• The Sanhedrin was to Jesus and the higher law as the apostatized, fragmented Christian body is to the Lord's restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They both defended the Law of Moses (Sanhedrin) and the Bible (conventional Christianity) as the end-all. In both cases, the new and higher law came from Jesus Christ and was called blasphemous by the old guard.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
One important point I think everyone should understand:
When Evangelicals reason with LDS they are arguing points that have been worked out through thousands of years of Biblical exegesis. Latter Day Saint doctrine on the other hand is given by revelation.
Think of the state of the Jews at the time of Jesus. They had been interpreting Jewish scripture for centuries but Jesus was presenting not a new interpretation to the old scripture but new revelation. If you accepted Jesus then old scripture had to be reinterpreted by the life and death of Jesus.
This is why LDS and traditional Christians can not see eye to eye. The question when it comes to LDS doctrine is - is this revelation from God? If it is, debating Biblical interpretation is pointless. Our understanding of the Bible needs to be relativized by the new revelation from God. For instance: Jeff argues that according to the Bible baptism isn't necessary for salvation. However, the words of Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon and modern revelation leave no doubt at all about the necessity of baptism.
Just like Paul when he was confronted with the new revelation of Christ had to go back and reread and relativize his understanding of the Torah, the only question when it comes to LDS doctrine is: is this revelation from God through a true prophet? Because Joseph Smith is not like Martin Luther or John Calvin he did not present a scholarly interpretation of scripture. He is claiming to be like Moses who was tending sheep and had a vision from God. This is why LDS will invite you to pray about it - because 'things of the spirit need to be received by the spirit'. Revelation needs to be recognized and received by revelation not by argument.
In my mind this is a major reason why we talk past each other.
And as a follow up to this if you are thinking in your heart that you would have accepted Jesus or Moses if you lived in their time just remember that the vast majority of people in fact did not accept them. The question we all should ask is: are these the words of Christ? What are they teaching you? Are they leading you towards faith, love of God, love of your neighbor? This requires humility, dedicated study, and sincere prayer.
Excellent comment, I’ve tried to point this idea out as well. The scene in the chosen, season 1 when Schmuel confronts Nicodemus and the question is posed, “would you put God in a box?” If god spoke something different to you than what is already written, would you question God? Or would you question your own interpretation of his prior words?
I would love someone to address this point!!!
You nailed it. I’ve come to believe those who choose to love god and worship him through strictly the Bible, that’s great and God is well pleased. Those that choose to worship him through a personal, revelatory relationship with him and modern revelation from prophets, as well as additional personal promises made with him in holy temples, that’s great too!
Other christians don’t have to accept our “works” born of the love and commitment we desire to show God.
No shame, just Love. No matter how they view us. I’ve come to see how much more willing Latter Day Saints are to cherish and seek all truth, no matter the source.
@@trailform8611 Since God the Son/Jesus is the Word of God, God and revelation would never contradict itself/Himself. It's quite possible that we might not fully understand something until revealed, but once revealed it would not contradict previous teachings. This is one of the differences between Bible Christians and BoM Christians. And just in case you may not understand, Evangelicals believe the Bible, but the Holy Spirit indwells us and guides us in a personal relationship with Jesus and we can receive personal revelation. I've even heard him talk to me while praying, and also had dreams and visions of Him on occasion. None of which would negate or contradict Biblical teaching and doctrine.
@pastorjeff i would love your content of q&a to mr andrew olsen2711 replies.
Luke 24:44 ‘Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. 46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.’
I still think maybe Pastor Jeff is missing the main reason the taken down video was so disliked by the LDS community. Were we hurt? Offended? Sure, but not because our beliefs were being challenged. The hurt came from her beyond “snarky” or “direct” style. She was downright disrespectful on a personal level. “Let me come explain how things are and what you really believe. I have to just explain their theology to them.”
Love your content Pastor Jeff. Inevitably we’ll hit snags and be passionate in our differences. I hope you won’t be offended if we make you an honorary Latter Day Saint. No ordinance required, and we promise not to tell Melissa.
I'm quite anti-religion and especially anti-LDS, but I was very provoked by her video for just the reasons you are mentioning.
Well her audience is mostly evangelical Christians. Maybe when she actually talked to the missionaries, she used a different tone.
What video was this exactly? I don't think I saw it.
Yeah, I agree. The tone is what was irritating not necessarily the message.
@@Signal_Lost. Someone woman named Melissa made a video about why she doesn't think The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church. Her attitude was very snarky and Pastor Jeff was doing a reaction video for it. He stopped in many places and explained from an Evangelical point of view where she was coming from and what she was thinking. She even gave him permission to do the reaction video. But Pastor Jeff was kind and this woman was really snarky.
Thank you for the respect you always show and the efforts you go through to explore. It's been a big example to me and has helped me be more understanding and have a desire to better learn what other's believe so I can show them respect as well, even if I have different beliefs.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss
I love the Hebrews, too! Hebrews 5 states:
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
I am sp grateful to have finally listened to God and to Hos servants in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has both Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, with Jesus Christ as the great High Priest!
Thanks for your explanations. As a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, your breakdown helps solidify my beliefs. It’s been fun watching your journey unfold.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss @Jozeemoss
I love the Hebrews, too! Hebrews 5 states:
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
I am sp grateful to have finally listened to God and to Hos servants in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has both Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, with Jesus Christ as the great High Priest!
@@stephentickal2757
Romans 3:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1 Corinthians 6:
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 6:
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Mark 15:
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
Jesus paid the price plain and simple. The veil seperating the Holy of Holies was rent! Everyone who takes on his name and turns away from perpetual sin can access his grace.
Revelation 22:
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
In regards to
Hebrews 5:
6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Some would say Paul contradicts everyone's paid for access to our LORD by way of ritualistic right of passage. Others say Paul is speaking to emulate the example King of Salem Melchisedec.
As far as
Hebrews 5:
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Matthew 7:
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Saving faith produces works. Works without saving faith is dead the order matters.
Ephesians 2
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Does ritualistic right of passage grant authority or is it by the fruit they bare. Is faith and God tangible and logical as well as spiritual. Or just subjectively spiritual divoid of objectivity.
Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said to him, thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Hello saints! May i ask how you interpret the following scripture please?
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-9
I think it's worth pointing out that when Joseph Smith used the word "translation" he wasn't talking about what scholars nowadays do with the Hebrew and Greek documents to render a Bible in English. So when he says in the Articles of Faith that "we believe the Bible is the word of God as far as it is translated correctly", he is not saying that the scholars did a bad job or even that some manuscripts were missing. After all, unlike scholars, to a true seer missing manuscripts is not an obstacle to providing a correct "translation" of the word of God. It's as if the seer can summon scripture from a different dimension along with what God intends it to teach His people in their language. Didn't Joseph Smith "translate" The Book of Mormon from a language that he doesn't even know?
I think what Joseph Smith meant by this 8th article of faith is that the scholars did as much a good job as they could possibly do with the means they were using, but they could not produce the work of a seer.
Note that Joseph Smith also "translated" texts that we're not even sure he ever had in his possession (i.e. The Book of Abraham) and he called whatever he was doing a "translation done by the power of God". (Back to the idea of summoning scripture in a form that is meant to convey what God intends to teach His children).
So I think what Joseph Smith meant to say is that the Bible that we have today has lost some of the plain and precious truths of the Gospel simply because it wasn't translated by the power of God. For this same reason Joseph Smith claimed that the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth.
Joseph Smith passed around his "Book of Abraham" written in "reformed Egyptian". Once we were able to read hieroglyphics after the discovery of the rosetta stone, it was clear that his papyrus was part of an ordinary funerary procedure and has no relation to what has been printed as The Book of Abraham. Research, research, research!
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I am LDS. Thanks for your channel and for taking down the contentious video quickly. Over 50 years ago on two brief occasions while on my mission I fell into the same trap that she fell into--arguing to try to prove to someone else that they were wrong and I was right. Sometimes we call that "Bible bashing" one another. The first time I lost the "debate;" the second time I clearly won the debate, but all I accomplished was to offend the person who lost and drive them further away. It is much more effective to love, share and invite people to Christ than it is to "out debate" them. After all, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
Once again, thanks for your non-contentious approach. After all, Jesus taught the Nephites during his ministry with them that "Contention is of the devil."
@jennna777 It wasn't the word of God that was offending people, it was her contentious approach and failure to "speak the truth in love" that caused harm. The Spirit's role is to convict, not the You-tuber's.
Hey, this is a common trap that missionaries can fall into. It can feel embarrassing when you find yourself faced with questions and concerns far beyond your ability to answer in a satisfactory way. I spent some time as that missionary, trying to study so I could argue just as effectively, but I came to the same conclusion you did, that it just doesn't work. All it does is create contention. It is very, very hard to have a debate with someone without becoming defensive or contentious. I am currently in a comment thread on this video trying to respond to others without falling into that trap.
Thanks for sharing your experience, and have an awesome day!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
@@Jozeemoss @Jozeemoss
I love the Hebrews, too! Hebrews 5 states:
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
I am sp grateful to have finally listened to God and to Hos servants in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has both Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, with Jesus Christ as the great High Priest!
@@stephentickal2757 @stephentickal2757 Romans 3:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
1 Corinthians 6:
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 6:
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Mark 15:
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
Jesus paid the price plain and simple. In regards to
Hebrews 5:
6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Some would say Paul contradicts everyone's paid for access to our LORD by way of ritualistic right of passage. Others say Paul is speaking to emulate the example King of Salem Melchisedec.
As far as
Hebrews 5:
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Saving faith produces works. Works without saving faith is dead the order matters.
Ephesians 2
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said to him, thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
Find God with the triad that is reflected in all of us (body, mind, soul) (tangible, logical, spiritual)
I really enjoy your channel. We lived in an area that people were predominantly Christian and didn't think we were Christian. I learned quickly to not say you might know us as Mormons. I just told people we belong to the Church of Jesus Christ, which our leaders have said is okay. It was really hard to live there are people ostracized us because we were different. I had one friend that was Christian Reformed that would listen and we had a lot of engaging conversations. She didn't believe the same, but we became good friends. They were Christian to the core, probably the best neighbors we ever had. They were in their 70's. Some of the younger families didn't even want my 4-year-old to play with their kids at least the was how it felt. I tried to understand them and hoped they could understand us, but it never really happened, except with the one friend. My daughter almost died and most of our neighbors were so helpful at that time. People I didn't think liked us at all were bringing gifts and dinners and said they were praying for our family. It was great to see that they really meant well but didn't understand us. I love that you want to understand. In my next neighborhood in that area, I became good friends with a mother of an adult disabled child. I knew as soon as I saw the house online it was the house God wanted us to buy. This friend helped me so much as my daughter has Spina Bifida. Her son had CP. Anyway, it was great until after a bit over a year into our friendship I gave her a Book of Mormon. This didn't go well at all she immediately found a lot of fault with our faith. It was so sad because it really hurt our relationship. I tried to tell her that I thought that she was a great person and God is so merciful so I believed we would both be able to be saved. She thought that she needed to pray for my soul and said if I believed I had the truth that I should pray for her soul. I am glad someone was praying for me and I still pray for her sometimes. We moved away from that area, and very rarely keep in touch. It really changed me and I think it made me a better person. I used to talk about my faith a lot and it took awhile for me to be as open as I once was about my faith. Now I feel that I can respectfully talk about faith. It also made me realized that my friends in Utah, where I grew up, felt on the outside more than I knew. One told me that our family was always kind, but she said that she and her sister were told they were going to hell at least weekly. It made me so sad. I know I try to live in a way that is just kind. I lived in the Midwest now and I love it, but if I moved back to Utah, I know I would make a bigger effort include others. I thought that friend was super popular in high school so I never guessed that was happening to her. She never talked about it until after living in that predominantly Christian area I messaged her. It broke my heart. Respectfully talking about religion makes us better as even my friends who are not Christian, I have learned a lot from them and before had preconceived notions that were not actually true such as Hinduism which is prevalent in our area. I learned so much about their actual beliefs and not just what I had heard about them. Thanks again for your channel.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemossdon’t use scripture to justify your own hostility please. This is supposed to be a safe place ❤
@@GrandmaKnightLife
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
If you don't have scripture then all you have is the subjective with no objective truth. What is more true one might ask subjective or objective? Well Jeremiah tells very plainly.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Thank you so much for this review. I very much like how you seek to try to understand our doctrine and then explain how you see differently or how you may disagree. It can be very frustrating (especially on social media) when someone "disagrees" with something they 'think' we believe.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss ☝️ Said the Pharisees to Jesus
@@bandosz3218
What is fiction and why?Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction that is at odds with Bible and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies which disqualifies his authority. Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament oldest being found again in the Dead Sea Scrolls year Anno Domini 70. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 35 years after the death and resurrection and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
God makes the Gospel simple for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, mind, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, heart, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, feeling, soul, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What ancient Egyptian Sounded Like - and how we know
ua-cam.com/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/v-deo.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ua-cam.com/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/v-deo.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeological evidence.
ua-cam.com/video/goRh2amv60A/v-deo.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ua-cam.com/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/v-deo.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ua-cam.com/video/2AVksae-Frk/v-deo.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
A thought I had recently was, maybe when we say that we believe the Bible to be the Word of God, "As far as it is translated correctly" it isn't referring to the ACTUAL translation from Greek or Hebrew, etc to English, Spanish, Mandarin etc.
Couldn't it be as far as WE INDIVIDUALLY translate and understand it? For example, my understanding is that other Christians don't believe that Christ still has a physical body, but it seems very explicitly clear when the Savior comes to the apostles after his death and eats with them, touches them and says "Touch me for a spirit has not flesh and blood." To me, the understanding or "translation" of that scripture by other Christians is incorrect. (And let's be honest, we know Joseph Smith used the word "translate" very loosely.) The Bible is the word of God, it just hasn't been UNDERSTOOD (translated) correctly.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Pastor Jeff thank you so very much for your kind words and your apologies for the video you pulled down. I am an LDS member and have watched each of your videos with admiration for your truly respectful way that you discuss the differences between the LDS faith and Evangelical foundational principles of Faith. I was truly stunned and dismayed when I viewed that video that you pulled down and felt disrespected. Todays video has cleared the air and I now understand your intentions with the video. Thank you for handling this matter in a very respectable manner. I will look forward to your future postings.
I had similar thoughts about the video you pulled down. Pastor Jeff thank you for seeing that it did not follow the mood and sharing of info in a respectful manner you normally convey. You have been doing a great job of tearing down the walls of disrespect and misunderstanding. It has been great to learn about how the Evangelical faith shares and spreads the message about God and faith with the world, we have that in common! God bless!
What apology?
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I appreciate question and answer formats like this. In reality, we're all trying to find answers to our own unique questions and I respect people reaching out beyond their comfort zone to find what they're looking for. I'd be curious to know more about the organization of your church? What does it take for someone to become a pastor? Were you taught specific practices in school (eg. how to organize your own ministry)? or was it all about Bible history and theory?
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss While I appreciate the interjection, I'm honestly not sure what you're implication is? What fiction are you referring to? If you explain what you mean by your initial statement and the scripture you quote as a companion piece in a more direct way I would more easily respond to it. Thanks in advance!
@@devan_davidson You betcha thank you. Just conversation starter of a sentiment and scripture we can both perhaps share in common. Do you also believe in the Biblical test of a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
@@Jozeemoss Yeah I believe in the Bible and in those scriptures. I’m not really sure where you’re trying to go with this. So I’ll ask you this: What is the biblical definition of a prophet?
A quick google search tells me that “Prophet” comes from the Greek word for spokesman. So I suppose that means a prophet is a spokesman for God. Hypothetically speaking, if you or I made a statement of fact claiming God’s word… like for example, that my beliefs are wrong because you say God’s word makes it so, does that not also make you a prophet subject to the same biblical test you’re quoting? If not, then why not?
I personally believe in divinely appointed leaderships and organization similar to what is referred to in Amos 3:7, Acts 1:22-26 and Acts 6:1-6.
@@devan_davidson
Appeal to authority fallacy. One should look for logic since God is truth. Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies. That's a big problem if one is to claim official anointed spokesman of the LORD.
God makes the Gospel simple for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, mind, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, heart, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, feeling, soul, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
To address the biblical translation question, I, and I think most LDS members, are not considered about the 200 AD to 1800 AD gap. Were concerned about the 30 AD to 200 AD gap.
When we see how close manuscripts from 200 AD are to the manuscripts copied in 1400 AD before the printing press, and how insignificant the changes there were in that 1200 year time gap, it gives me confidence that the 150 years (on average?) between the originals and the earliest substantial copies didn’t see any major corruption.
But I’m just curious-is there anything in particular that you suspect got changed in that time period?
@@BellDavidE well, from a theological standpoint, there is an uncompleted Jospeh Smith translation of the bible with verses he changed to various degrees. Beyond that, I'm not a prophet, so I don't feel confident pointing out any particular verse and saying "that's wrong." If I had to I think Paul's don't permit a woman to teach a man is pretty suspect because that seems internally inconsistent with having a female prophet in Judges.
@@keatonr776 Please keep in mind of the culture each passage. In Corinthian culture, women were not allowed to confront men in public. Also, they often weren't allowed an education. So, 1 Corinthians 14 should be read with that in mind. The instruction is to have their husbands teach them, at least at first. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11 that women prayed and prophesied in church, so he didn't mean they could never speak in church.
@@keatonr776 Thanks for responding. I’ve just been curious about whether Latter-day Saints think that certain truths were systematically removed from the NT writings in the first 150 years. Regarding Paul’s teaching on women and the JST changes, I have thoughts on those topics but I’m not here to start a debate. I do find it interesting, though, that the JST didn’t change the 1 Tim 2:12 statement on prohibiting women teaching and usurping authority over men.
I don't think it is concerns about the new testament being altered or lost. It is more about certain teachings of early church fathers that were disavowed by later church councils. The concept of a pre existent life before mortality was espoused by an early church father named Origan in the first century. This was denounced in the 5th century by much later "church fathers".
LDS for 48 years, born and raised. I have recently changed my belief about the lost truths topic.
For example, I’m now comfortable in believing that the manuscripts taken as a whole and modern day versions of the Bible are reliable and accurate for the most part. However I have also come to the conclusion that “lost truths” likely means truths that are actually not found in any of the manuscripts. I think that’s an important distinction. Of course the interpretation or misinterpretation of the modern versions is wide and varied, which is why clarifying and other testaments and ancient writings are needed.
I've recently taken the phrase "as far as it is translated correctly" to refer to the version being read from. If it was translated right, then it's just as good and valuable as the original Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic.
Edit: rephrasing
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
It’s my understanding that correct translation from the original manuscripts to our modern day language wasn’t the major problem, but mainly translation from the authors themselves into Greek. According to many biblical scholars, some authors excelled at Greek but some clearly weren’t. Greek was not the native language of the authors of the gospels, at least it clearly wasn’t for some of them.
So no early Christians had a trustworthy Bible and the earliest copies weren't actually inspired? That's the question I'd have with that statement as a Protestant. And/Or it requires evidence that various gospels or letters weren't originally written in Greek.
@@valeried7210 It would be up to the individual to form a theological opinion on that. I’m simply stating the consensus among many biblical scholars that some authors clearly demonstrate weakness in the Greek language. It wouldn’t make sense to write in any other language at that time, at least not if one wanted what was written to reach a wide audience. Therefore, it’s highly improbable that it would have originally been written in any other language but Greek. The intention seems clear that it was meant to reach the widest audience possible, so the authors had to work with the level of talent in the language they possessed. How much or how little it affected the overall message/story is obviously up for debate, same as it is for the interpretation of certain passages.
@@Maryel_R_R_Palmer sure, but that's not a translation.
@@valeried7210 not a text to text translation, no. There’s no evidence of that as far as I’m aware. It’s much more likely to be a message learned or revealed to them in their own language, possibly through oral tradition, which was then translated into Greek in written form.
@@mahonri69 to be clear, I was only commenting based of my understanding of the meaning “as far as it is translated correctly” and not the idea of “plain and precious doctrines lost” but I see where you’re coming from. There were indeed books that did not get canonized as part of the Bible as we know it today and some unique to specific Christian groups like the Coptics just to name one. I suppose there are other ideas floating around as well, as to what those lost doctrines could be. I think I saw someone else comment on another video that it had to do with the lost ark of the covenant.
First of all, I love your shirt. Second I appreciate your thoughts, perspective and explanations bridging gaps in understanding. Following John 13:34 is the most powerful way to build these bridges. Thank you to everyone who is mindful of it.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Thank you for your kindness in seeking to understand and share. It’s so Christian to share with each other. I’ve learned by so much about my Evangelical friends and fellow brothers and sisters! 💛
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Pastor Jeff, I loved this video and the answers. I am a Christian who loves this channel as it helps me to learn as much as I can to talk to the very dear LDS people I know. I am home with Covid right now and am going through your playlist and taking notes:-)
+
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss @Jozeemoss
I love the Hebrews, too! Hebrews 5 states:
1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
I am sp grateful to have finally listened to God and to Hos servants in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has both Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods, with Jesus Christ as the great High Priest!
Thank you for all that you are doing! It’s been a fun journey to follow! You handle everything with grace and kindness. You are an amazing Christian!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Your explanation on the the various translations of the Bible is so simple and makes so much sense. It's always struggled understanding what a non-LDS reasoning is for that. Your ability to break it down in a non-combative and incredibly simple way is unmatched. Appreciate your work!
I think it's sad that we grew up accepting things without proof like that the bible was "not translated correctly". Pastor Jeff explained the translations well. I love reading my New Living Translation! So much easier to understand and more powerful because those words aren't going over my head!
I actually really loved hearing this broken down as well! It's so helpful to see this. I can see more clearly now how I am talking past my evangelical friends. I also respect way more than I did where my other Christian friends are coming from. However (and this is a sincere and honest question), where do evangelicals and other Christians stand on these topics?
"Lost books" Bible Dictionary entry of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
The Apocrypha
Other extra-Biblical texts that were not included in the Bible
@@Song-Girl-Still-Singing@MatthewHavertzPurposePictures
The thing is, his explanation is great and makes sense but also can't prove ther haven't been changes either, not without having the actual original texts.
“We have NT manuscripts from the second or third century after they were originally penned”. All of his points are based on the fact that the manuscripts that were penned two to three HUNDRED years after Christ are correct. What am I missing here? Seems to me that if we are saying we have manuscripts from hundreds of years after t they were originally penned, there is plenty of opportunity for altercation. Also, when was the Christian doctrine of the trinity decided and agreed? It’s my understanding that this was hundreds of years after Christ. It all points to the need of a prophet and modern day revelation.
@@MatthewHavertzPurposePictures
So I'm an Evangelical that attended one of the schools that Pastor Jeff attended, although not at the same time. Here's my thoughts on your questions.
There's lots of books mentioned in the article used as references from which the information came from. It's in many ways footnotes. Almost all of those are no longer extant. Personally I don't think those are scripture and I think you would find most Evangelicals would agree. The Book of Enoch is extant today, although the only complete version is in Ethopic, and actually Jude likely quotes a book called the "Assumption of Moses). The book of Enoch is accepted as scripture only in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. None other accept it. Personally I think these are of historic value, but not scripture.
The Apocryphal books are usually know by even the Catholics as "Deutero-Canonical" and even the Catholics as a whole see them as less value. Jerome who translated the Latin Vulgate wouldn't translate them because he saw them as dubious in their origin. Probably the most valuable books in this group are the Maccabees as they give a lot of history of the inter-Testamental period.
I'm guessing by the other books you may be referring to many of the texts found at Nag Hammadi and other writings. Those in general have been rejected from very early on by very early church counsels. Most of them are actually Gnostic, promoting what the early church saw as heresy (and I agree) and they were rejected and never made it into the Canon of scripture.
So for me as an Evangelical Protestant with graduate study training in the area, I don't think any of them are scripture. Very worthwhile learning about, and reading if they're extant, but ultimately our view is they're not scripture.
Hope that helps give some perspective.
As someone who lives in the south, who attends the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints regularly, I can say that the more life I live the more I realize how similar human beings are. My significant other is Methodist and we often align on so many views. What I have found is that we both love the word of God. We both believe that it can be found in the Bible and Book of Mormon. We both realize that we don’t know everything about our faiths, but that we love God and Jesus Christ. I think God wants more discussion like this, but I also think as Latter Day Saints that we can learn so much from the rest of Christianity about how to live a good life. I’ve met good people everywhere and it just reaffirms my belief that we are all children of God and that He loves us all very much. I think we get too focused on the tiny details. At the end of the day, I believe that if we follow the example of Christ by treating others with kindness and grace, the rest will work itself out.
I'm reminded of the time, during my mission, when I came to question my faith, to the point where I found myself on the precipice of atheism. The thing that finally pulled me back was that I realized that I could not be honest with myself and deny that I knew God. Though my journey did lead me back to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that was the point where I realized, personally, one of your primary points, here: that faith *must* rest in Christ alone if we're to have any hope for salvation.
While I'm comfortable (due to familiarity) with the term "saving ordinances," and have received them myself, I agree that those ordinances are not what save us from sin. I think the "sign of obedience" approach is probably more accurate and useful overall, even if I still see actual merit in the ordinances themselves (long story; too long for the comment section).
Thanks again as always!
Thank you, Pastor Jeff, for your willingness to remove that controversial video! What I love about you and your videos is that you are trying to help us understand why and what about your beliefs while you are also learning and understanding why and what we "Latter- day Saints" believe! AND THAT WE CAN BE FRIENDS AND RESPECT EACH OTHER AND OUR RESPECTIVE BELIEFS!
Here are a couple comments from this video. 1. Nothing was mentioned about receiving direct inspiration from the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit... He is the witness of ALL TRUTH! When the Holy Ghost inspired the words to the writer or interpreting of the writings, there are no mistakes or misunderstandings.
2. If, as mainstream Christians believe that Eve made the worst mistake... then why were there no children born while they were in the Garden of Eden? They were there long enough. Everything was provided for them while in the Garden, how does one learn to do for himself or herself, when everything is provided for them! And where does faith come in while in the Garden... except to have faith that in order to live the one law given to them they had to break, as it was, the other law, since they could not keep them both and stay in the Garden. They were immortal, they could not have children without blood in their Veins, consider the fruit was able to produce that blood and consider being told, you can stay in the Garden for a long as you want, but if you eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, you can no longer stay in the Garden, it will be your choice! Consider this, you were in the spirit world with the rest of us and knowing then that you could not come to earth to gain a body until they ate of the forbidden fruit, you along with the rest of us were rooting for them to eat the fruit! Have you ever given thought to this?
Again, what I love about you and your videos is, the desire to understand each other's prospective, love them as they are and who they are, not judging either ones final outcome...I know that it is Christ's and Heavenly Fathers place to judge, so we live the best we can and see the good in each other and hope we become lasting friends. I see the good in you and your intentions and feel you are a friend. Please keep these videos coming. I think you are giving those with no affiliation to any religion a chance to learn of Jesus and come to live and follow Him! So, again, thank you! Keep doing the wonderful work you are doing.
Why would someone who loves God EVER root for someone else to disobey Him? And to correct the error in #2, Eve did not make the worst mistake. In Timothy, the Bible explains that Eve was deceived by the serpent, but Adam, who was right there next to her, was the one who sinned directly. They did not know they were naked until Adam also ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It's also interesting to note that Eve added to God's instructions when she was answering the serpent about eating of that tree. I have speculated (after observing husband/wife behavior) that Adam ADDED those words when he was instructing Eve about what God had told him. He wanted to be extra sure she didn't mess up so he told her the additional phrase about not even touching the fruit, and part of my reasoning is that when she's telling the serpent this Adam is not correcting her.
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328
“Adam fell that men might be”
God’s greatest desire and plan is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
God already knew what Adam and Eve would do.
But God’s plan could not go forward if they didn’t fall.
God allowed Satan in the garden for a reason.
I know it’s a bit mind bending but it truly makes sense to us Latter-day Saints.
We don’t celebrate disobedience in and of itself. But we recognize God allowed the serpent to beguile Eve.
Adam and Eve were innocent like children in the garden. The perpetuation of mankind and God’s ultimate and wonderful plan of salvation.
We also don’t believe that we are punished for Adam and Eve’s sins. We are born innocent and free of blemish.
His true plan really makes sense and is amazing ❤
@@sarahaas183 That's very interesting. I am confused tho, as Adam and Eve already lived in perfect peace and union among the Lord in the garden, so why did God have another plan that *required* Adam to sin? Again, it sounds backward from the way the Bible reads. Yes, the serpent was crafty and there had to be a choice in the garden if love was going to be true freely-given love for God.
And I don't know who can believe that humans are born sinless. No toddler ever needs to be taught to be selfish. It comes quite naturally from their soul at birth. And the Bible teaches clearly that because of Adam all fell. That's in Romans 5. I thought the LDS studied the Bible and believed what it teaches so very plainly!
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 I can totally appreciate your response and questions. I wish we could just chat and I could clarify some things. I’m kind of frustrated with the limits of social media right now. It’s hard to get some things across correctly and sometimes it’s hard to be understood. Let me think on the most efficient ways to answer you, because I want to make sure I’m thorough and can explain my beliefs a bit more. I’m not saying you’re wrong at all. But ya, LDS have some unique perspectives on things based on what we believe is modern revelation etc. I know it can be perplexing to other christians
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 ok this may sound confusing 😅. Yes we believe that all men are born as “natural man” because of Adam and Eve’s fall. We know me. Are naturally born with human attributes and tendencies that we try to overcome through Christ, in this life. Yes, toddlers can act selfish. We just don’t believe they would be held accountable for things they can’t possibly know better about. So like if a child under eight yrs old died. We dont believe they were sinners. Just innocent babies, already covered by the blood of Christ. We believe they would inherit a celestial body and realm with God, because they are perfectly innocent. We believe Christ still died and covered everyone. We believe the “little ones” are spotless in God’s eyes. And will have eternal life. It’s a comforting doctrine especially for those who may wonder where their babies or children go if they die at a young, young age. I probably rambled. I’m sorry 🫶🏻♥️🙏🏻
I think this may be the last video I watch here. It just feels like Jeff refuses to truly understand our doctrine. I just kind of feel like he’s trying to sell us on his version of Christianity over the long term.
Isn't that what members of the lds church are doing to him? Trying to sell him on their version of Christianity? I see it all over in the comment section. What's wrong with him having a different understanding of scripture? Why would that lead you to stop watching his content? Do you feel threatened by a different point of view?
@@rabbithole2015most LDS do feel threatened when someone has a different belief about the gospel of Jesus Christ unfortunately
Thank you for your testimony. I respect your beliefs. Thank you for your respect in turn. Just here to watch your journey.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I appreciate your explanations. Are you saying that those who believe in covenants and ordinances like baptism and temple worship have shipwrecked faith because these go beyond a need for Jesus Christ, instead of relying solely on him? If that is your point it isn’t consistent with Jesus himself, who was baptized and worshipped in the temple and cared so much about the temple he cleansed it. In Acts we read that Paul was also baptized and that the apostles attended the temple after Christ was crucified. Baptism and temple covenants bring a person into a covenant relationship with the Father and the Son.
Daily repentance and Faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ 🙏, Love Jesus and His Atonement sacrifice, keep His Comadment,
Thanks Pastor Jeff. I would have mentioned that while we have many ancient manuscripts
or portions of the Bible, we have nothing comparable for the Book of Mormon.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I enjoyed your reaction video! I enjoyed learning more of your faith. Its special and I appreciate you being real 💕
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I had the thought while watching this that; others who would claim that our faith is a "works" based faith.
**We are not saving ourselves by our "works," we save Others by our "works." For our "works" are the workings of Christ, and His alone.**
Because of our salvation and standing before God through Christ, we seek to bring the dead unto Christ.
Thus it is a bold doctrine we believe indeed, that death is NOT the final say of someone's standing before God. And that because Christ's work of saving all, has opened the gates of the grave and death, That He paved the path for us to proceed to bring ALL beyond the bonds of this mortality unto Him. That the kingdom of God has been set into motion to salvage ALL wayward souls from both sides of the veil.
This comment is wonderful, thank you for sharing
Respectfully, I feel like a faith with the gall to refer to other denominations as “corrupt” and “abominations” should be able to handle a little direct criticism in response.
Great point!
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy..
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Thank you Pastor Jeff for reminding me of the great blessings of the Restoration. It's sad that main stream Christianity believes that the God of Israel that has always built His gospel on prophets, apostles, temples etc is now about rock music and paid ministry opens my eyes to all that the Lord is doing in the last days before His Second Coming. The feeling your wife had in the temple, the peace she felt comes from our loving Heavenly Father, the Atonement of Jesus is a powerful gift that enables His sons and daughters to recieve the sacred blessings of the endowment that offer power, purpose, and protection in daily life and helps with our journey back to the presence of God. Deuteronomy 7:9
Only those who reach exaltation will be back in the presence of God. The unclean are not redeemed.
They are cast out as enemies of God (see 1 Nephi 10:20-21, 1 Nephi 15:34, Mosiah 2:38-39, and
Mosiah 16:5)
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
One important thing to realize is that these saving ordinances aren’t just checkpoints. They continually bring us closer to Christ. With baptism, we promise to keep His commandments, always remember Him, and take His name upon us. With Confirmation we are receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost. The Initiatory ordinance offers us more blessings, with the Endowment ordinance we covenant to obey Christ’s teachings, we consecrate ourselves to Him, we sacrifice anything that draws away from Him, we covenant to keep the law of Chastity, and we covenant to keep the Law of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is to follow in His footsteps and continuing to strive to be like Him through faith, repentance, baptism, receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and Enduring to the End. The final ordinance is the Sealing ordinance which binds us to our family, and it created an infinite line going backwards and forwards connecting everyone back to Adam and Eve and back to our Heavenly Father. We do these things because we have the Faith.
I am an evangelical Christian in Southeast Idaho with numerous friends and family who are Latter Day Saints. The distinction you made between salvation by works vs exaltation by works is golden. Using this when this conversation comes up again. 🙌👏👏
“We have NT manuscripts from the second or third century after they were originally penned”. All of his points are based on the fact that the manuscripts that were penned two to three HUNDRED years after Christ are correct. What am I missing here? Seems to me that if we are saying we have manuscripts from hundreds of years after t they were originally penned, there is plenty of opportunity for altercation. Also, when was the Christian doctrine of the trinity decided and agreed? It’s my understanding that this was hundreds of years after Christ. It all points to the need of a prophet and modern day revelation.
The second century would be less than 100 years after they were originally penned. Plus, we have other portions of the New Testament in early church leader letters. This article can shed more light on the issue. carm.org/about-the-bible/the-bible-has-been-translated-so-many-times-can-we-still-trust-it/
Hey Pastor Jeff, I admire how kind and respectful you are of my faith and how hard you try to create a safe space for open and honest dialogue. I have never once felt offended by your content and I really appreciate how you seem to be earnestly seeking to understand and explore. One question for you: Do you know who your ancestors are? My great grandmother was a McCullough and was from the Midwest. I'd love to know if we're related. Haha, that's a very LDS kind of question!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Pastor Jeff has seen and maybe experienced so much from the Church but comes short to the full experience that could convert him because he has too much too lose: his ministry, his friends, possibly family members and all of the things that he has believed in so strongly that holds him back and take the challenge to know if the Church is true.
Hmmm that table flips both ways. I think studying another faith is just that. It doesn't necessarily mean I am going to convert I debate with my Muslim neighbor all the time. He knows his prophet is the true prophet. Sound familiar? I have zero interest in converting to Islam. It's ok to research
14:55 Jeff, would you be more in agreement with Article of Faith #8 if it said, regarding the Bible, "as far as it is interpreted correctly"?
As an LDS member I really appreciated your last video. I had already seen her video before though, and was bothered by it. So I was grateful to hear your calmer take on what she was saying. It helped me understand more where she and you are coming from and the barriers that exist between us. I am sad it came down. but also had I not seen her video before, I may not have liked your video had I seen it first here.
I don't think his part in the video was the problem. It was hers for many people. While I appreciate her perspective, as I'd do Pastor Jeff's, I find myself less charitable when people are less charitable towards something I hold dear.
Pastor Jeff is doing great things, but even his comments sometimes leave me with an unsatisfied mind and understanding as my own studies have helped me see, know, and feel things differently.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hey, thanks Pastor Jeff! Good to hear from you today. I was surprised to learn from this video that you had taken that other video down. I wasn't expecting it. But I understand your reasons. Thank you for sticking to your values.
I ponder from time to time about the faith vs works debate that a lot of folks seem to have. It always feels like the conversation gets muddled to me, because I believe that faith is inseparable from works. I understand faith to have a few key components 1. Belief 2. Truth 3. Action (works) and 4. Desire (hope). I see faith as one of the core principles of life, acting on our belief in something we can't see for a desired result. We technically don't know if our car will start when we go start it, but we act on our belief to fulfill our desire to get to our destination. The car will start, but will do us no good if we do not believe or act on it. If any of the four ingredients of faith are missing, it is dead faith. Faith without truth is delusion, like eating ice cream because you believe it will make you healthier. Faith without action (works) is merely belief. The scriptures tell us that belief alone is not faith, otherwise the devils would also be saved, because they believe and tremble. It's like the belief that push-ups will make you stronger is worthless without actually doing them. Faith without belief is a weird one. Either you will soon know the truth of the doctrine and then believe, or you will lose your faith and stop following the truth. If you're running every day without believing it's helpful, you will either stop and stay the same, or you're going to find out very soon that it is a benefit to your life. I would actually describe faith without belief as those who try to enter heaven by proclaiming their works that they did, and the Savior tells them He knows them not. Faith without hope is despair/struggling in vain. You follow the principles out of fear, duty, or worse, for social benefit. It is trying to walk forward while only looking at the storm.
When it comes to faith, the best principles to have faith in are the things which will bring the best and longest-lasting blessings to your life. Therefore, we should lay up treasure in heaven. I believe faith in Jesus Christ is the best kind of faith to seek because it is the faith that saves, it's path brings the sweetest blessings, and the blessings of His grace last forever. Others may perhaps consider this a more works-based lens of looking at faith, but I really believe faith is a universal principle of life, that we will reap what we sow, and to sow requires action and belief, or else we could do nothing.
If nothing else, I thought you might find these thoughts intriguing. I believe in what you're doing Pastor Jeff. I really appreciate having a safe space where I can express my thoughts, and speak my mind without being combative. Have an awesome evening!
We should not think that the intrinsic virtue of faith saves, as if faith is our righteousness, as if faith is a good work. What saves is the object of faith, which for Paul is Jesus Christ as the crucified and risen one (Rom. 3:21-26; 2 Cor. 5:18-21; Gal. 1:4; 2:21; 3:13). Faith unites believers to Christ, who became sin for our sakes, who has taken the curse we deserve, who has absorbed the wrath in our place. Paul clearly teaches, then, that salvation (eternal life in God’s dwelling place) comes by believing not achieving, by resting in Christ instead of working for him, by trusting instead of performing
The moment we put our faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit comes and lives inside of us and gives us new desires, leads us to turn from sin/ repentance, and live a holy life. “This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?” Have you suffered so many things in vain-if indeed it was in vain?” (Galatians 3:2-4).
God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes his sin-hardened heart of stone and fills him with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit then leads the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s word (Ezekiel 36:26-27). We do not become perfect (1 John 1:8); we still have our sinful flesh and the freedom to choose whether or not to obey it. However, when Jesus died for us on the cross, He broke the power of sin that controls us (the power of sin is broken only in those who believe) (Romans 6:10). A true believer will naturally start to change as they grow deeper in their relationship with God. We don't obey God because we are trying to earn his acceptance, but we obey God as a result of our right standing with him/ justification and out of our love for Him and from a place of gratitude. Genuine faith by itself is going to transform a person's heart. And from that heart it’s going to flow the good works that testify to our father who is in heaven.
Works are not the cause of salvation (the gift of eternal life in God’s dwelling place) but the evidence of salvation. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. James contrasts two different types of faith: true faith that saves and false faith that is dead. Those who are born again by faith in Christ will produce good works to the glory of God as a result of their faith not to earn eternal life (Ephesians 2:10). Good works are the evidence that a claimed faith is genuine. They naturally flow from a genuine faith. They have no inherent power to save someone or add to their salvation. To say otherwise is to reduce Christ’s sacrifice on the cross to something less than sufficient to save us.
Abiding leads to abounding. Christian success is called fruit. You don’t get fruit from work but from abiding. That’s why Paul said in Colossians 1:10 to be FRUITFUL in every good work. Our work flows from our fruitfulness which comes from our abiding.
@@storozha777 Thanks for the reply! This was a little hard to read. I agree that it is faith in Christ that saves, not merely the principle of faith itself. I completely agree. That is what makes faith in Jesus Christ the most important and valuable kind of faith.
I also love the scripture you reference in James, that faith with works is real, and faith without works is dead. Good works are the evidence that a claimed faith is genuine.
That is why I strive to keep God's commandments and follow my Savior. Christ only asks that I have faith and follow Him, so I seek to keep my faith alive, and pray that I will abide in Him. I have faith in my Savior, that I can find rest in Him, become a better person, and partake of the fruit He offers to all.
I like that you included the scripture references. I used to do that two years ago. It can take a lot of hard work, so I admire it.
@@randallwalter7589 just to follow up -- the basic plan for Jesus is that we are saved. Saved from sin that we all have and needs a path to remove it from us. We will always sin, but Jesus provided the grace to escape from that judgment by dying for us and giving us the choice to accept His grace for FREE. FREE means it cost us nothing as it cost Him everything.
When we accept that FREE gift of grace, we hold that Faith in our heart and our mouth (confess it). Romans 10:9 and John 3:16 tells us how we are saved for everlasting life. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us we are saved by our faith and 1) NOT of works and 2) not of ourselves
If our faith is what saves us as it is 1) not of works and 2) not of ourselves then grace must be FREE
Read Romans 4:5 and Romans 5:1 along with Galatians 2:16 and Titus 3:5 to see how one that doesn't work but has faith has righteousness in that His righteousness is given to us once our faith is in place.
We have a gold gift to find people dying in the hospital and giving them the "Good News" that their faith will give them salvation. They have no time for baptism, works, but God will meet them once they confess "You are my Lord and my God Jesus". How awesome that even at the end, salvation is available to anyone.
@@randallwalter7589 you’re welcome. Its from a handout I put together. Just before Jesus died on the cross he said it is finished. That means the work has been done. The veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom meaning that now we can go directly to God through Jesus. We don’t need a priest. Jesus is our high priest. We don’t strive and do works to keep or maintain our salvation. As we grown closer deeper in our relationship with God, it will result in good works out our love for him. If you’re motive behind your good works is to merit exaltation to be in God’s presence then you are under the curse of the law to keep all of it. There’s nothing we can do to deserve to be in God’s presence. That’s why we need Jesus.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” (Galatians 3:10-14)
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.” (Galatians 5:4-5)
@@sevrinvorndran351 a LDS will agree with what you stated. Have you studied Mormon doctrine of salvation? Their definition of saved is different from ours. They believe that everyone is saved by grace whether they put their faith in Jesus or not because Jesus atoned for our original sin from Adam. That’s why they believe everyone will be saved automatically. Everyone will be resurrected to one of the three levels of heaven. But not everyone will be exalted to eternal life in Gods dwelling place. Only those who keep the ordinances and follow the Mormon doctrine will reach the highest level. They also believe that Jesus’s atonement is what gives them access to exaltation but it’s up to them to perform the rest of the required work “for by grace are you saved after all you can do” 2 Nephi 25
In contrast the Bible teaches that not everyone will be saved only those who put their faith in Jesus. To them he has given the right to become children of God.
The reason i didn't like the previous video was she brought the spirit of contention.
She never had the intent to be respectful.
I have lived the majority of my life (except two years in Rexburg, Idaho) in areas that have not had a large number of LDS members. Most of my friends from elementary school through high school and even now as an adult have been Catholic or evangelical. I have never felt disrespected by my friends, even when we had discussions about our differences. I have been swimming laps every day this month, and there is a group of apparently evangelical senior citizens who get together to tread water at the pool every morning. Yesterday I overheard them mocking The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith, and latter-day saints. They carried on with this line of discussion for 15 minutes. I don't know any of them, and I don't think they had any way of knowing that I am LDS. It was super uncomfortable and obnoxious. Much of what they were saying that I caught as I was swimming was inaccurate, but I didn't say anything. Anyway, I appreciate your approach. I had your tagline "Fight criticism with curiosity" going through my head as I swam. I almost said that to them, but didn't have the guts 😅 I just didn't want to engage with them.
Sometimes it's better not to address these people as they want to make you feel uncomfortable and also try and argue that there right and where wrong .. however just be like christ and pray for them
I wouldn't be LDS if it wasn't for Joseph Smith First Vision. No one has a statement like that of authority which to me is a big deal. It's like thinking ppl will take our citizens arrest seriously because we can do it and they'll get in trouble if we do it. But if we are anything but the police, do we really have the power and right to make arrests or intervene in such things. I would imagine most will say the police keeps us on the other line for a reason.lmao
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss what are you trying to say?
@@Jozeemoss have you read the Book of Mormon?
If not, I'd encourage you to do so. It's a great book and answers a lot of biblical questions. And you would find that the scripture that you reference, really doesn't have anything to do with this companion book of scripture that bears witness of Jesus, the Christ.
💫✨💫
When considering exaltation, we believe that Heavenly Father will not force us anywhere we do not want to be.
As a member of the LDS faith, I have to constantly remind myself that we don't know very much about exaltation at all. It's definitely a concept we believe in, and it's woven deep into what we teach, what we believe in, what we practice in our lives and in the temple. That being said, there is so much about our heavenly father and his ways that are beyond our comprehension, sometimes I have to remind myself that there will be answers in time. We don't need all the answers now. Especially when it regards exaltation.
@joncharlotteschoen I would remind you that through the testimony of the Holy Ghost, and careful scripture study including the words of modern prophets, there is very little we do not know concerning the eternities and our place in it as exalted Sons and Daughters of the Most High God.
@@jessekoeven3757 I have to respectfully disagree. So basically, if my mom for instance, were to pay her 10% tithing and do everything else 'necessary' to obtain and keep a temple recommend... And I did not choose to do those same things... You and many others in the LDS Faith, which I'm a member, would straight out say that I will never ever ever see my family in the afterlife, not will I ever be in the presence of God, because I'm not in the same kingdom as them. I simply don't believe that.
@joncharlotteschoen I am at a loss as to the point you are truing to make.
Or than we qualify for.
Pastor Jeff, I love your content, purpose, and approach to trying to understand the beliefs of another specifically those of the LDS faith. I wonder if you should post these answers in your video comment section as I know many who have not seen your journey will ask the same questions multiple times. Full disclosure I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but I have experienced other faiths/beliefs in my life. I liked your explanation on "works" but I have always looked at it from the point of view that Jesus is my Master, I have been bought with a price and I need to do what he asks, not out of payment but out of obedience. Since these things are manifested through action, I attribute them as works i.e. I would classify The Great Commission as a works-based request as outlined in Matthew 28:16-20 I also believe in the actions required in observance of the Ten Commandments, etc. Do you believe that baptism is a requirement for salvation and is it a "work" Also what are your thoughts on Apocrypha? I understand they are not "Canon" but why did some Orthodox churches allow it, weren’t there some regional councils in the Catholic faith that "affirmed" the use of Apocrypha but church wide it was voted not approved as Canon in the Counsel of Trent in 1546 due to the Protestant Reformation? I know some people in certain faiths even consider the manuscripts “evil” or "do not read" etc. Some of the books can provide good historical background even bridge the gap in some cases between Old and New Testament P.S. My mother was a Presbyterian minister so that was her view. I ask this only to preface my view that indeed man has altered “scripture or non-scripture” based on counsels (voting) and I am not understanding your view as stated in this video that you do not see the same. Can you elaborate on that? Again I love your approach and the willingness and Love you place in each of your videos, It has inspired me to learn more about others’ beliefs (not to proselytize, or push my beliefs) but to better understand as you are doing! Thank you for all you do!!
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Thank you for your channel. As an evangelical Christian with many LDS friends, your approach to these conversations and questions resonates with me. Carry on.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
As a fellow Evangelical, one of the things I find most difficult in the teachings of Joseph Smith Jr is the idea that the Bible is correct in as much as it's correctly translated. The manuscript evidence shows very clearly that it is correctly translated.
I did see the video you took down, and honestly when I saw it I was a bit surprised because she certainly came across in a way that might be problematic in this channel. Yes she can talk past, and so can the Missionaries.
Overall good question and answer time.
who was the creator by chance? I know he said 'she', so I think I have a pretty good idea of who it is.
There are no ORIGINAL manuscripts, to be fair.
@@zachsimpson2008 Just hundreds upon hundreds of copies, yes.
Where are the gold plates, by chance?
It's good to see LDS and other Christians dialogueing here in what's usually respectful manner. As a member of the LDS faith, my understanding of scripture, and of the Bible in particular is ever-evolving as I learn more in my years in this mortal life. There are clearly things I understand now that I didn't understand five years ago, for example.
I'm not going to comment, in particular, on whether or not we believe the Bible to be inherently error-free, but I can say that LDS believe the Bible is the word of God. Peace and love.
@@zachsimpson2008 It's correct that we don't have the "autographs," which is the term used for the originals. But we have very few original anything from antiquity.
But what we do have is a almost everything very early on. The Rylands fragment of John is usually dated just before 130 AD, which is pretty recent after it's being written and a long distance from where it was written.
And that's another key piece, we have lots of copies, early copies from significant distances from each other. That indicates the books were widely distributed early.
So the thing is there's good evidence that we have very close to what was originally written.
The idea of praying about the Book of Mormon isn’t about following one’s feelings, it is about seeking personal revelation from God to guide you. The form such revelation takes isn’t the same for each person, but generally it comes down to God speaking to our heart. We often struggle to put in into words and generally do a bad job of it so don’t get hung up on how people describe their experience. It might be a sudden flood of conviction and understanding, it might the same thing but grow slowly like the light of a sunrise growing over time, it might come as a divine epiphany or in other forms as well.
The important aspect to focus on is you getting an answer that you know is from God, not what form that answer takes in your individual case. Sincere, honest people have gone from being convinced Mormonism was false to fully embracing it as a result the person revelation they got when they asked God if this stuff was really true or not.
They important elements are first to have faith that God wants you to know what is true, and will in fact answer sincere prayers. A person seeking an answer on this has to be sincere, meaning they want to know the answer because they are committed to conforming their life to God’s truth, whatever it may be. Mere curiosity, or just going through the motions because someone else wants you to doesn’t cut it. You have to be serious; you have to really want it for the right reasons.
Ask yourself, if you did pray about it, and God did reveal to you in his way the Joseph Smith really was a true prophet of his and this church really was his kingdom on earth, would you walk away from your current church (and career), join with us, pay tithing, live the Word of Wisdom, etc. etc. If you can honestly say yes, you are sincere.
You also have to have real intent; it has to be important to you. Anytime someone says to me that they read the Book of Mormon and prayed about it and didn’t get an answer (or got an answer it was false) I like to ask them what part of the Book of Mormon they liked best. Usually, they can’t answer it because they didn’t really read it to understand anything, they read it to find fault with it, or to find some excuse to reject it. They had no real intent of honestly considering anything about it. If an atheist read the Bible the same way, they too would be unaffected by the words God gave.
A person who gets an answer on this has a duty to God to live according to it. If you are not sincere, if you are not serious about it, then you are not going to act on any answer you get. So, God mercifully withholds from answering such people least the come under condemnation for not acting on the answer.
If you are not relying on personal revelation from God on things like this, then you are relying on the arm of flesh whether it be your own ideas or the ideas of some scholar or other person you choose to put your trust in.
The reason I don't pray about it is because of Deuteronomy 18:20-22. God told me to do something. If I don't do that and do something else, I'm not doing what my God commanded me to do. This is the test I gave the Bible.
The covenants that we make, the first being baptism, are not at all works. They are the way God has designed for us to choose to commit to follow Him. I think it comes to agency. He will not take that away from us. However, we can choose to give it to Him because of our love and trust in Him. I feel like you said nearly the same thing in the video. I think we’re all going to be with God and find that we all had different views that end up being reconciled. I appreciate your sincerity and example.
I have a question about Biblical translations. You had mentioned some of these are dynamic instead of word for word, yet take issue with many of the translations JS did with the Book of Mormon, such as using existing pages out of the KJV when the Nephites would have been using the same book of Isaiah, or when he expressly used the word "Bible". How do you reconcile this?
Hey Jeff! Thanks again for your videos. I have learned so much about the beliefs of mainstream Christianity, and it helps me better understand where we may see things differently.
I had a question about this video. You talked about the LDS doctrine, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly..." And you explained that there is extensive evidence of the authenticity of modern Bible translations. (Thank you for that, I didn't know that before!)
I've been thinking about that for few days, and then YESTERDAY, I had TWO incidents from two different sources, that led to my question...
These two sources mentioned, almost in passing, two different places in the Bible where text was added SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS after the original manuscript. These are Acts 8:37, and 1 John 5:7-8. If this is true, then how many other times were things added? And how can we trust EVERYTHING in the Bible if some things were added later?
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hey man I appreciate your honest effort, and I appreciate the analogy of the “your reality” aspect. All I can really say about that is, sometimes our “reality” and actual truth, aren’t the same. What our current knowledge is right now does not mean it is all the knowledge or truth that exists in its entirety. That’s why we need confirmation from God, personal answers, which we are all entitled to, for confirmation of new, or what may even call, peculiar things. I still invite you to continue you studies and to even ask God to know if the BOM or what the LDS faith teaches is true, notwithstanding your current beliefs or your “reality”, you’ve got nothing to lose, only a possibility of gain, more truth, more assurance of the things you’ve been learning about. But you’ve got to ask sincerely, specific questions get specific answers. All in all, keep it up brother, thanks for your effort in just to understand us and creating an environment of openness! Idk if I quoted what you said correctly, but I hope some of what I said made some sort of sense, not very good at wording things right
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss I don’t follow?
My pastor likens baptism to a wedding ring. The ring doesn’t make you married, it just shows that you are married. Likewise, baptism does not make you saved, it just shows that you are. Baptism is, though, as you said, not optional. It is a symbol that we already are saved and is commanded by Jesus.
Yesss! That’s how i like to explain it to people when evangelizing.
I’m stealing this explanation. Gracie
I really like this explanation a lot! It helps me understand Pastor Jeff's and the Evangelical perspective a lot better. Thank you so much for sharing! If you're interested in better understanding another perspective, I think from an LDS perspective (or at least my perspective), I would say that I consider baptism/confirmation to be more like the actual marriage ceremony itself and not just the wedding ring. Both baptism and marriage are binding acts that signify we have entered into a covenant relationship with someone. Just like we usually build a relationship with our partner before getting married, it is the actual act of getting married that shows we are truly committing to our spouse. Just saying "I'll love you forever" and moving in with our partner without getting married doesn't cut it for perhaps most Christians. We don't fully trust (or at least act on our trust) that our partner will always be faithful to us and be there for us until we actually get married by someone with the proper authority. Likewise, I believe the act of baptism/confirmation is actually very similar in that it demonstrates that we are truly committing to Christ, even if we felt fully committed and were ready to commit before actually performing the baptismal ceremony.
Well said.
Okay… what happens to those who can’t or don’t get baptized through no fault of theirs? We agree that it’s a requirement but there are billions of mankind who didn’t get the message or were prevented because of circumstances. What their eternity going to be like?
ATONING SACRIFICE...the emphasis on God wanting a kingdom of Priests & Priestessess...see Exodus 19. Emphasis on Covenant making and so much more...how blessed & fortunate are the Latter-Day Saints who bind themselves to a Savior who is eager to covenant with the people of the earth. This is part of the reason why well over a million youth put their temporal lives on hold for 18 -24 months in hope's of inviting & teaching anyone who wants to hear important additional truths than our Holy Bible does not say. I testify that there is so much more awaiting God's children in the Restoration of the Gospel when they are ready to openly hear, ask about, search-read and then pray about than to declare the Bible is God's final word and that's all we need. See the last verse in the Book of John. Why, we will be taught many more things, including when we pass thru the veil, that we scarcely comprehend now...learning & teaching..see 1 Peter 4:6....I so testify in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen.
Pastor Jeff, I love that you brought up the question of multiple translations of the Bible! One of my deep wishes is that ALL Christians would read not just one translation of the Bible, but two or three different translations of the Bible. I read from seven different translations across three languages and I can attest that each new translation I have picked up has deepened my insight and understanding, especially text that is typically difficult to understand such as the book of Isaiah!
I also appreciate that you addressed the inevitable question about scriptures being 'lost' from the Bible. I would like to point out that the 8th article of faith in no wise speaks about anything being lost from the Bible, especially of a critical theological nature; in fact, Joseph Smith who was the author of those articles, knew the Bible extremely well, and in the collection of modern revelations which is called the Doctrine and Covenants it is stated clearly in 42:12 that BOTH the Bible and Book of Mormon contain a fulness of the gospel. I would guess that the perspective that things were 'lost' from the Bible is the passage in 1 Nephi 13:26, however that has a specific context and is an entirely different discussion from what you addressed.
This was a great video.
What is specific context? i'm just curious
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The elements present in a mortal birth and in a spiritual birth are the same--they are water, blood, and spirit. Thus every mortal birth has a heaven-given reminder to prepare for the second birth. The first birth is a type and a shadow for the second birth. Both births point to the Giver of the Gift-the Creator and Redeemer who is both the author and finisher or our faith. The requirement of all three elements-witness of the true character of the Godhead and when all three are present, the adoption of baptism is sealed and recorded in heaven and thus this act “fulfills all righteousness.’
Moses 6:59-63
59 That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory;
60 For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified;
61 Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.
62 And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time.
63 And behold, all things have their likeness, and all things are created and made to bear record of me, both things which are temporal, and things which are spiritual; things which are in the heavens above, and things which are on the earth, and things which are in the earth, and things which are under the earth, both above and beneath: all things bear record of me.
We are taught in Matthew, that all three elements are recorded at Jesus’ baptism in order to fulfill all righteousness. These three elements bear a likeness in heaven and in earth “and will abide in you.”
John 3:15-17
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Though sinless, Jesus Christ submitted himself to the will of the Father and kept the commandment. Like the Savior, we fulfill righteousness when we follow Him and His example by submitting to the will of the Father and accept the blood, the water, and the Spirit (these three witness to the Father that we accept the Plan of Salvation He has provided for us). This is the baptismal covenant-God makes promises based upon His terms and conditions and we receive the blessings by accepting His will and His grace.
When you were taking about how we know something is true, I realized I would like to know more about how you come to believe something is true or not. We would call that gaining a testimony or spiritual witness. I think you would find it fascinating to explore the many conversion stories out there and how people came to believe in the LDS church. Burning of the bosom and deep spiritual feelings are common, but so are dreams, voices, answered prayers, peace beyond all understanding, joy unspeakable and many more. I once almost passed out for joy while singing Called To Serve on my mission. I know you had a distinct impression to go into ministry which I do not doubt was inspired. We, too, have many such experiences as part of our conversion stories and religious experiences.
I'm interested in Pastor Jeff's answer to this as well. My Mom once told me that I'm a Christian, because my parents are. That bothered me. What if that's not true? So I looked. For me, I looked at archeological evidences for the Bible - Did the people, places, events happen. I looked at Deuteronomy 18:20-22 where it says prophets of God have to be 100% accurate. Bold claim - but did the prophecies in the Bible come true? I looked at the evidence for and against Christ raising from the dead. I looked at if I can trust that the Bible is preserved - did it change over time. I'm totally convinced. Boring answer, I know. Most of this was after I was a Christian and kept searching for truth. Knowing truth isn't part of my conversion story though. In grade school, I didn't like myself. I got up in the night to go get a butcher knife and kill myself. God was waiting for me in the kitchen. He let me know that if I died that night, I would be in hell forever. It's not like He was condemning me. It was that He didn't want me there. I had a problem - I knew I would go to hell, but I didn't want anything to do with God. To keep it short, I'll fast forward to 9th grade. I noticed that Christians had more love, joy, peace than I thought possible. I didn't have those things. I knew it was because of Christ and I wanted that. God didn't disappoint. After I asked Christ to be my God and savior at a concert, I started reading my Bible. I saw how God loved me no matter what. I saw that I'm supposed to love others. I stopped fighting with my family. He totally changed me and He's still changing me.
@@mikematney3439 thanks for sharing! I love Jesus! He has absolutely changed my life forever! And yours too it sounds like!
@mikematney3439 - thanks for sharing your testimony! Hopefully it will be an encouragement to someone out there going through a similar situation. I also battled with depression a lot in past in high school. When I went to college, my best friend’s roommate was Christian. While others mocked him, I saw that he had a peace about him which lead me on a journey to seek out Christ and if what the Bible said about him was true. The Case for Christ was also a helpful book for me on my journey to being saved.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I think the part where things might get confusing as far as grace vs works is that while we do believe that baptism and other ordinances are necessary for exaltation, they don't guarantee it. Yes, like faith in Christ, some things are required of the saints and the members of Christ's church. But none of it would matter if He hadn't come and saved us. Also, someone could participate in the ordinances and later renounce their faith and would not have access to exaltation without repentance.
I have heard it explained as saved by grace, exalted by works.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Notwithstanding Hayden's offered scripture, which I appreciate, with my experience in the LDS church, and I am still a very active member in the Church, I still struggle with faith vs works. I recently retired from a math teaching profession, I greive a bit because I am not working actively. I think more emphasis on faith will give me a better opportunity for happiness and satisfaction going into my senior year. Thanks.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I've been meaning to ask this for a while. You mention that there are certain key doctrines that all Christianity agree with, but there are other, secondary doctrines where there is wiggle room. My question is, "If you believe that the Bible prescribes a certain way to do things and that some doctrines are essential to being a Christian, why are other doctrines secondary or left to interpretation? What makes some doctrines more important than others?" My inclination would be to believe that Christ's church would have all the same signs and structure laid out in the New Testament, so where do you see that there is that "wiggle room"?
If Jeff doesn't answer, I'll try. The answer is because the Bible treats them this way. Some doctrines are crystal clear regarding what defines a Christian. Some aren't. For example, some think Jesus will return before the tribulation. Some after. The Bible isn't clear on it and it doesn't seem to make a person not a Christian if they believe one way or another. There are better examples, but that's what came to mind.
@@mikematney3439so then it appears that it’s up to somebody’s interpretation or put in LDS terms “as far as it’s translated correctly”. Hence the real tangible need for latter-day prophets and apostles “till we all come to a unity of the faith” or in other words, “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”.
@@johnscheid96 If I ask 10 LDS people questions, I get more than one answer on some things, so please don't act like you all answer the same on everything. Does that make them not LDS?
@@mikematney3439 Interesting question. My answer would be that it doesn’t make them non-LDS but rather it shows a different level of understanding and perhaps also a different perspective on how they view or interpret things.
@@johnscheid96 I'm guessing that there are some core doctrines that if they disagreed on would make them not LDS? Like if they didn't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and didn't believe in the Book of Mormon (I know extreme example) it would kind of disqualify them from being LDS? It's similar with our denominations. The important things, all protestants agree on. Some things that aren't emphasized in the Bible we don't emphasize either. Like some things just have one verse or not mentioned at all. Make sense?
Hi Pastor Jeff, I definitely appreciate the intent of your videos. A lot of your videos focus on our differences and how we can work through those. But could you make a video some day about our similarities? I feel a great desire to be united with other Christians but sometimes I feel as though we are seen as "not". And while I understand to a limited extent why that may be, I think in the long run it is unhelpful to our goal as followers of Christ. People of faith in Christ should unite in common goals. Could you help with that on this channel by highlighting our similarities?
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Do you believe or do evangelicals believe in other ancient texts outside of the Old and New Testament books that were found in the Nag Hammadi library and the Dead Sea Scrolls? Like the Book of Enoch for example and other apocryphal texts? Many, if not all of us, believe that some ancient texts that Joseph Smith didn’t have access to at his time, aligns with some things found in the Book of Mormon and our temple practices. One book to reference would be A Strange Thing in This Land by Hugh Nibley. The ancient texts shown in this book side by side with the Pearl of Great Price match hundreds of passages and these texts were not found until until the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi were discovered in the 1940s-1950s long after Joseph Smith died. Also many profound passages that match Latter Day Saint temple practices. Not sure how someone can dispute those things.
Another great video Jeff! I didn't think the video you took down was confrontational. I love it when someone is passionate about their faith and beliefs. For me, it was an excellent contrast to your approach. It is why it's so important to "fight criticism with curiosity." Yes, we can be different in how we have Faith so long as Christ is at the center. Very important to talk about similarities and differences, but not talk past each other. We will come together "By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned." 2 Corinthians 6:6.
"Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift" 2 Corinthians 9:15.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
You are so well spoken. Thank you!
I'm sorry that so many people got hurt watching your reaction video. I watched it and thought it was really good and was a great explanation of how Evangelicals think and understand the Gospel.
I've never had a face to face religious conversation with an evangelical. I was glad to actually see the way many evangelicals feel about Latter-day Saints on video, not in person. It was quite shocking to me to see the contempt, derision she displayed and with her scripted dialog. I had only heard about this sort of experience, but to witness it was eye-opening.
@@ruthdavis7114 She can't definitely be harsh, but I think it's a culture thing. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young could also be very harsh, which was common among pastors back then. I think she's just passionate and views the church as the work of Satan. She doesn't hate the people, just the doctrines, and it's understandable to hate Satan's efforts.
@Metroid-rg9pn I get passion. I get even her view that it's of the devil. But she clearly wasn't trying to convert anyone. Her point was to belittle and deride for clicks and comments. That's not how you approach a conversation and it's not how you create a persuasive video.
I agree, sort of. I saw her video before Jeff's reaction/explanation. I only made it halfway through her video. Having Jeff explain what was going on was helpful. However, here is my sort of comment, which was addressed by Jeff. It is the smugness/snarkey/I proved my point, and you are attitude. That's what put a lot of people off. And, as I have said before, good job, Jeff on the hard work of not criticizing and having real and hard conversations.
Wish I had seen it.
Regarding bibical translation. What are your thoughts then on lost books or letters in the bible? I know of several thst are mention in the bible itslef like a letter to the cornithians before first cornthians thst paul mentions? I know a lot of mainstream beleifs stems from the creeds of thr 2nd or thrid centries, would be curious to know your thoughts on ther as it relates to the organization of the bible.
Hey Jeff, what are your thoughts on Mark 16:16?
The video you took down was interesting. I felt she was angry and trying to be very controversial. I only listened to a part of it and found myself saying a prayer for her. Carolyn
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy..
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Sigh. My fellow Latter-Day Saints are too easily offended. Pastor Jeff has a right to his honest beliefs, and Latter-Day Saints have the same right. If Latter-Day Saints are going to claim - critically - that there has been an apostasy that has resulted in the removal of divine authority from other Christian faiths, then other Christians should have a corresponding right to criticize the foundations of the LDS faith. It is that simple.
If you’re referring to the previous video, I can’t agree we were EASILY offended: Melissa did not simply compare and contrast differences, like pointing out that unlike Evangelicals who use unleavened bread and wine for the Sacrament, Latter-day Saints use water and regular everyday bread. She called it a fake communion. She said “the speaker quoted some scriptures but that doesn’t impress me; even Satan can quote scripture”. She equated us to Satan. I could go on and on with examples about how offensively she spoke about Latter-day Saints and our beliefs. Most of us easily identified the tremendous difference between how Pastor Jeff has respectfully conducted himself in comparing and contrasting his and Latter-day Saint theology. It was very jarring for him to provide a platform for a very hostile Melissa when he knows his target audience with Hello Saints is Latter-day Saints. It’s like being invited to someone’s home to eat and then criticizing the ethnic meal they serve you. That’s offensive. You just don’t do that.
Pastor Jeff, I have a question/comment concerning the "bible translated correctly" discussion, and another concerning the protestant/evangelical view of the Gathering of Israel.
The 2nd question is the easier one to ask. In the Articles of Faith 10 it states, "We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes..." What does protestant/evangelical Christianity believe in regards to this? This is a very important viewpoint in LDS Christianity, a key doctrinal point for much of what the LDS church does. I've heard many different interpretations and ideas from non-LDS christians, and would appreciate it if you could give your insight into this.
For the 1st question/comment, have you heard of the Biblical scholar Margeret Barker? She studied extensively the Old Testament, particularly the influences that later groups had in interpreting and possibly changing the older context of the old testament (ex. Deuteronomists). If you haven't, I suggest you look into some of her work, it's fascinating and helped me not only appreciate the Bible, but the Book of Mormon more as well.
The reason I bring that up is because there's great evidence of different, and differing, voices and opinions of what truly mattered doctrinally in the scriptures, particularly in the Old Testament, but some in the New as well. While your point of the consistency of the ancient copies does help to lend credence to Biblical inerrancy, we must remember that we don't have originals of any Biblical book or epistles. There is a possibility that between the original writing to the copies we now have and compare too, things MAY have had changes made, some on purpose (maliciously or not), or by accident via translation or interpretation error. If these changes were done to in-between copies between the originals and the ones we currently have these errors would be propagated and we'd be unable to determine it via typical archeological scholarship. That's one possibility to consider in regards to "translates correctly."
Another can be found from the different meanings of translate. Translate means it's original definition (changing the text from one language to another with the same meaning), bu5 it's also a synonym for interpretation. It cannot be denied that there are many interpretations of the Bible, with such disagreements leading to war and persecution between different christian sects. There is only one correct interpretation of the Bible, which is God's. The question now, is which interpretation is the correct one.
These are the two primary reasons that LDS christians hold to "translated correctly." There are others as well, but those are the big two. One reason we love the Book of Mormon is because it helps us understand the Bible better, and we believe in aligning with God's original meaning.
This isn't to say that LDS christians don't view the Bible as scripture, nor love and cherish it. They absolutely do. It's to acknowledge how we recieved it in our day and age, the miracles that preserved the Lord's inital meaning, and some of the changes that have lead to much arguing and the creation of so many sects, which until modern times did not have the ecumenical unity they do today.
Sorry for the long comment, thank you for your Christ-like approach to fighting criticism with curiosity, and may the Lord bless you and your family.
Interesting. I didn't see your video but I did see her video (even though I've never watched her before) and immediately when I saw it it made me appreciate your approach to exploring our religion. Thank you Jeff for being an example of the believers and creating bridges and not breaking them down. Contention is not of God and if we find ourselves combating over doctrine then no one "wins" but if we focus on Christ and love one another as He loves us then we all can "win".
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
God's grace is so great that all will have their temple work done. Everyone will have the choice to accept. Because of this grace we are here to prove our selves and become one with our Father.
Thanks you Pastor Jeff!! You articulated what I have been trying to explain for 3 years to my LDS husband. God bless you.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@angryarmadillogaming7863
God is truth, the pursuit of which will set you free. Where is the misstep in the logic. If you have the truth let it be known.
John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Luke 12:
51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
54And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
55And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
Pastor, I'd love to see you and Brother Halverson, (Unshaken), get together. I know I have mentioned it in the past, and I still would love to see a discussion between you two!!
PLEASE LIKE THIS MESSAGE IF YOU AGREE!!
Thank you Jeff! Wonderful preaching. My view as a born and raised LDSaint turned Evangelical is that I was saved during my LDSaint upbringing not because of Mormon theology but because as a young man in response to the one true Gospel hidden within the Mormon standard works, i knelt and prayed to God and asked of Him forgiveness for my sins -- see Enos 1:4-8. This is as true a Gospel as found in Romans or in the VBS skit I attended with my kids last week at our local baptist church. It doesnt matter where we hear the Gosepl as you said what matters is we feel the burden of our sin and have faith that God will save us.
It was years before i got caught up in the web of worldly doctrines and years more before I realized how it was wrong. Praise God He led me out of that and I am learning to abide in His grace as I did when He first entered my heart.
God bless you keep the conversation going and yes LDSaints need a safe space to learn the Gospel there is a lot of pride and fear mongering over other religions.
I don't see how praying over something to determine if it is true and using your 'excitement' as way to determine if it is true has an value for accuracy. The Bible teaches us not rely on our heart:
_The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?_ Jeremiah 17:9
If we can't know it to be good, then we can't use it as our guide.
We are saved by our Faith in Jesus -- and no other chores, works, duties or rules will be required or the death of Jesus didn't pay for it all, and the point is, He did pay it all.
best of all, as a Christian, I can know today, now, at this moment, that my salvation is there for me right now so that I can have joy in the heavenly hope for all eternity so that I'm ready when He is ready.
Praying to feel the spirit is how we progress spiritually. Honestly I think that is something we need to learn that can take our whole life time. Was I following the spirit or my own knowledge and understanding in that decision? Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Coming to understand the Savior's words by the spirit is what allows us to understand Him better and can help us become more like Him in this life. Reading the Book of Mormon and praying about it is a prescriptive and simple process which God designed for His children in order for us to be guided by the spirit to truth. Here is a book, it promises if you read it God will let you know by the power of the Holy Ghost if it is true. Truth not by our own understanding but from God himself. If we are taught by the spirit of the truthfulness we can understand that God can and does speak to all his children everywhere. Which is Awesome! We have an assurance that He made a promise to speak to me specifically about this thing. If I put in the effort and faith that if I actually read it and pray about it He will answer me. If we prove God herewith with tithing & offerings that He will open the windows of Heaven for us...why not also prove him herewith that he will answer my prayer after pondering and reading the Book of Mormon? Feeling the spirit has many different ways not just our heart. Joseph Smith even said that God will speak peace to our mind and our Heart. Also he said, If it be wrong you can even have a stupor of thought. In Galatians 5 it says, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. That is why we ask to pray about the Book of Mormon. Does it give me personally more Faith? Yes. Do I feel the spirit when I read it? Yes. Does it give me Joy? Yes. Does it give me love towards my fellowman? Yes. Does it cause me to repent and humble myself? Yes. is it good and promote goodness for me and other? Yes. Does it help me grow closer to Christ? Yes. Does it teach me about Christ? Yes. Do I have a greater understanding of truth? Yes. The question is, will you put your faith in Jesus and act on the promptings of the spiritual witness you will receive by reading the Book?
@@johnkay8388 I have done my praying and I have sought the holy spirit for knowledge and wisdom and that's where I receive personal revelation to put my trust only in the Bible.
It turns out that is what the Holy Spirit desires for me. Does the holy word of God give me more faith? Yes. More joy? Yes. More love for my fellow man? Yes. Does it cost me to look in myself and seek ways to be humble and improve my life? Yes does it help me grow closer to Jesus? Yes.
So I have those things from the Bible, that you get from another book. And if the Holy Spirit wants me to focus on the one that suits me best then he knows what's right for me.
George That is awesome for you. I read and believe in the Bible and it does all those things for me also. I have multiple copies of the bible and a lot of our church doctrine comes from the Bible. I've also prayed about the Bible and I know of the truths in it from the Holy Ghost. They too have all those feeling from the spirit. The question you asked is why we ask people to pray about the Book of Mormon after reading it. Essentially in order find out that it too is another testament of Jesus Christ. Both work together hand in hand. They clarify together gospel truths. The Book of Mormon testifies of the Bible and the Bible testifies of the Book of Mormon. Ignoring the book completely is fine if you feel that way and truely believe the Holy Ghost is telling you that. That is what you'll be judged on as well as what I'll be judged on for reading it and believing it. The only difference between us is that you didn't even try.
@@johnkay8388 with many other books out there including the Qran and others, do you do the same test on those also? If not, why do you make that choice only for this one book? Why don't others get the same objective opportunity?
We are judged by out faith in Jesus. Ephsians 2:8-9 says I'm a saved by my faith. I have yet to read any verse from any book telling me my judgment is based on what I have read. I know the Bible doesn't make such a claim. Faith in the Bible is not a requirement for salvation. Is there a verse in the book of Mormon that requires reading it for salvation?
As I said. The Holy Spirit has told me that the only book I need to focus on is the Bible. You claim I didn't try, but I trust the Holy Spirit and He has been my guide since that time I put my trust in Jesus as the only Way, Truth and Life. I don't think I need to test the Holy Spirit by reading the many other religious text books that have been created.
George - Yes we are saved by the atonement of Christ and our faith in Him on that, there is no other way. Faith is essential to know Christ and what he has done for me and others. We gain that Faith in Christ by reading scripture i.e. the Bible and The Book of Mormon. Both books testify of Jesus, show us His almighty power and marvelous works not only for the people in Jerusalem but also in the americas. (John 10:16) The Book of Mormon is not a requirement for salvation nor as you said is the Bible. What the Bible does do, as well as, the Book of Mormon is directs us to Christ for our salvation. Obviously without either book we wouldn't know who Christ is and where to put our faith for our salvation... Anyway, if you read the BoM and know from the spirit if that account of Christ is true or not you can also pray to know whether or not Joseph Smith is what he claimed to be. If he truly did translate it by the gift and power of God. If so, that means he is a prophet. Which would mean God continues to do his work and calls prophets today that teaches us His will and we can pray about that too. The Book of Mormon is not a text book, it is scripture written by ancient prophets translated by the gift and power of God. The Bible and the Book of Mormon help us put our faith in his correct path. I know we disagree on what that correct path is and that's fine. Like I said I've prayed about that path and have followed the Holy Ghost for my life as you have for yours. Come what may for the both of us if we can not agree. The objective opportunity I have on scriptural books would be whether or not the book speaks of Christ because he is my salvation. I have not read the Quran though I don't believe it testifies of Christ, right? If it did testify of Christ, I would read it and pray about it. If some mysterious ancient scripture which testifies of Christ was found tomorrow in Jerusalem, America, China, or any other place and it claimed to be translated by the gift and power of God...Yes, I would absolutely read it and apply that same reasoning to be lead by the spirit to know whether or not the principles in it are true.
Oh let's be honest the "Prosperity Gospel" is alive and well today. Joel Osteen's dentures and grossly overpriced suit depend on it.
Thanks for your videos. I've learned a lot about evangelical Christians that I've always wondered but couldn't bring myself to ask. If anything, though your videos highlight and explain differences, they have helped me to see that we're actually similar in a lot of ways as well. This is important as I believe Christians and people of faith from all denominations will need to work together to fight the tide of opposition to religion and traditional values that is growing in the world. Thank you!
Also, regarding the video you took down, while I didn't love a lot of what the original video creator said or her overall attitude, I did think your analysis of what she was saying was interesting and respectful.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
In a previous video where he was interviewed about his visit to an LDS Temple, Pastor Jeff shared a particular thought from the Bible that kept coming to mind whilst he was there - 'Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest...'. In a General Conference talk not too long ago, President Nelson also shared a story that amongst other things, the Temple does indeed offer us rest from the world. As a convert to the church in the UK myself, it is my experience that people will often feel the still, small voice of the spirit testifying of truth, whilst in the presence of Latter Day Saints, or when around our sacred buildings, but without fully recognising or acknowledging it. It happened on my wedding day. Many of the people in attendance were not members of our church, or indeed of any faith. Any yet many of them afterwards commented on how peaceful and special it felt to be at our wedding ceremony, and that they had never been to a wedding before where they felt the way they did at ours (in the UK we are required to have a church wedding first, before being able to get married and sealed together for eternity in the Temple). I have seen it many times since.
I think Jeff is awesome, and I have greatly enjoyed watching his videos. There's no question in my mind that Jeff, and many others like him, are fulfilling their part in the Lord's plan to help build bridges between people of different faiths. This is so needed in these latter days, which are becoming increasingly perilous. Conversion is an individual matter and ultimately we should always remained focused on deepening and strengthening our own testimonies and faith, over and above worrying too much about the conversion of another. We just need to follow the living Prophet, and trust in the Lords timing :)
Well considered answers, Pastor Jeff.
To raise fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This is my first comment on one of your videos but I’ve been watching for some time now.
Your content is wonderful to listen to. I served an LDS mission in Missouri and spent a lot of time with evangelicals. I don’t think I can think of a time on my mission I didn’t feel love and respect from the evangelical ministers and pastors that I interacted with. We served in community service projects and I attended some of their services for funerals or in support of some curious about my faith.
I was definitely not the intelligent Bible scholar compared to the pastor but I appreciated their respect of my faith and I hope I gave them the same respect.
Listening to your videos reminds me of those wonderful brothers and sisters from my mission.
I love, appreciate, and celebrate your faith in our savior. We might not see eye to eye but I hope we can agree Jesus Christ is our savior and none of this matters without him.
Please continue to share your faith on this platform for years to come it’s content the world needs right now.
You're a good man. I appreciate your honest curiousity and your honest evaluation of information. I appreciate your efforts to do good and give each other kindness. Keep it up. Thank you for being a positive source on the web. I am blessed for your research and honesty.
What are your views on the apocrypha?
Pastor Jeff,
I was born a member of the LDS church and was a devout follower of it (mission temple marriage, attended the temple once a month, paid tithes and offerings, magnified callings, etc.) I parted from the LDS church one year ago (I am now 51). I left because of what you discussed in this video. I was putting all my faith in works and church leaders. I realized, through the grace of Christ, that I was not putting my trust in Him and what the Bible and the Book of Mormon taught about Him but was putting my trust in what the religion told me. It is hard to express to my fellow LDS family members and friends the deep love and gratitude I now feel for my Savior. Jesus Christ is the only salvation. Funny thing, the Book of Mormon does not teach the many of the doctrines and beliefs that are held in the LDS religion, and in many cases it denounces them. Joseph Smith was told to translate the Book of Mormon and “not to pretend to any other gift.” Thank you, Pastor Jeff, for being a True Disciple of Christ by following His example in word and deed.
love this
Do you still believe in the book of mormon, notwithstanding leaving the LDS church? There are a few different latter day saint denominations that have a more typical Christian view of the topics you mentioned while retaining the Book of Mormon
I do still believe that the Book of Mormon was translated by Joseph Smith through the gift and power of God. However, I understand that my salvation rests in Jesus Christ alone. After hundreds of hours of study, research, and prayer, I’m convinced that Joseph’s only calling was to be a Seer who was to translate the Book of Mormon. Both the Book of Commandments and the Book of Mormon clearly state this. Please don’t think that I left because I was offended, or angry, or because of some sin. I simply started to believe what is written the Bible and the Book of Mormon and the Grace of Christ did the rest.
@@michaelgiles7844 no, I understand perfectly. The position you find yourself in feels very compelling to me, but I havent come to any firm conclusions yet. Thank you for sharing this
@michaelgiles7844 - Have you read ‘Passport to Heaven’ by Micah Wilder. The reason I ask is that many of the realizations he came to were similar to yours, and so I thought you might like the book. At the end of his mission, he is asked to testify of the 5 pillars, but he instead shares that he has come to the conclusion that ‘Jesus is all that I need.’
Baptizem is required... Please explain John 3:5. ... Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of god.
They will say being born of water was physical birth (there is 'water' involved), and being born of the spirit is accepting Christ.
@@humblehunk9022 Correct. That is the proper biblical understanding of that verse. Nicodemus confirms this when he asks if it's possible to crawl into his mother's womb to be born a second time. He understood the metaphor Christ was using, but was following it to the wrong conclusion. Much as you didn't choose when you were born, you also do not choose when to be born again. It is a supernatural event much like the wind, where no one can control its comings and goings, but the effects are felt.
Ok, if you have your blinders on...
As clearly we are all follows of Christ, I can't believe we can disagree on this issue.
How about something more direct.
Mark 16: 15-16
16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Pastor Jeff. I just want to thank you for your kind and informative videos. You are a great person. You are doing what so many are unwilling to do. Most people are highly critical of my church and it's members. It really hurts when people call us non Christian, when the church and so many of it's people do amazing things to help our global neighbors. I grew up in a home where my mother was LDS, but my father left the church. He was highly antagonistic. They got divorced and I continued on with my faith in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. I have spent my whole life being hit by both sides of the religious coin. So thank you for all you do. Keep up the good work and please accept my virtual handshake.🤝
Pastor Jeff, thank you for all the thought you put into answering questions and discussing beliefs both shared and varied. I appreciate being able to understand the beliefs you and others of your religion have.
Re. baptism, I hope you understand that Latter-day Saints do not believe that the act of being baptized saves anyone. As you so beautifully expressed, baptism is a demonstration “that we are entering into this new spiritual reality.” However, it is not just to demonstrate it to other people, but also to Heavenly Father. Like a handshake signifies an agreement, or a wedding signifies a commitment, baptism signifies an understanding between a person and God, something, as you probably know, Latter-day Saints refer to as a covenant. We do believe additional blessings are attached to keeping our agreement or covenant with God, similar, perhaps to the covenant Abraham made with God.
This conversation makes me ask what you believe is God’s purpose in all this? If His purpose is simply to have us return to Him, why create the world in the first place? Perhaps you’ve addressed this in another video, and I’ve simply forgotten. If so, I’m sorry.
Thanks again. Your answers here show a great deal of thought and a brilliant ability to bridge the language barriers we too often experience.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I have always enjoyed your honesty. I think both sides have passion for the religion, and I, too hope that we all can communicate honestly and with respect.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Your explanation of how the bible came to be, and all the translations actually makes a lot of sense to me! I'm Lds but don't use KJV cause I find it hard to read, but I like hearing about other translations.
The Bible is a reliable collection of historical documents written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claim that their writings are divine rather than human in origin. (See 2 TImothy 3:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:16-21)
1) What should a person look for when checking to see if an ancient text has been corrupted? The person should look for other surviving copies of that text to cross reference for variants. The Bible has the most surviving copies of any ancient document to put its text to the test for variants, or for corruption. There are around 24,000 manuscripts from all over the ancient world, some as early as the second century. If a variant appears in a later manuscript, it can be compared to much earlier manuscripts to discover when the variant was introduced into the text.
2) The New Testament has tens of thousands of ancient manuscripts that can be extensively compared to each other; plus, those manuscripts have the earliest dating to its recorded events of any historical book. In other words, the books of the New Testament were written very soon after the events they describe, leaving no room for legend to creep in. In fact, Paul cites more than 500 eyewitnesses to the risen Christ, “most of whom are still living”-meaning that his readers were free to check out the truth for themselves and confirm the accuracy of what he wrote.
3) What is the value of knowing our manuscript can be checked for reliable transmission? It confirms the teaching found within has been the same since it was written. We can know with assurance that what the authors wrote 2,000 years ago is what we have today.
4) The Bible is unlike many other holy books in that it is a reliable collection of historical documents. You don't just have one individual who says that he heard from God and everybody has to listen to him. The Bible is written on three different continents: Asia, Africa, and Europe. It was written in three different languages mainly Hebrew and Greek with a little bit of Aramaic. It was written by over 40 authors from multiple walks of life. It was written over a period of more than 1500 years and is internally consistent. This is incredibly important and it adds to the credibility of the Bible.
5) There have been more than 25,000 archeological digs related directly to the subject matter of the Bible and not one of them contradicts anything in it. These findings include cities, names of leaders, weapons from wars, etc.
We also have secular historical corroboration that proves that the people, places, and events actually happened. The majority of these findings have confirmed and affirmed the things that we find in the Bible. We can compile the whole Bible with everything we have within 2nd century and 3rd century documents. The evidence for the bible is so much more than any document out there. God is not a liar. He said that His world will stand for ever:
“The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.” (Isaiah 40:8 KJV)
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matthew 24:35 KJV)
"But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1 Peter 1:25 KJV)
“The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” (Psalm 12:6-7 KJV)
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18) Is Jesus a liar? Did the great apostasy prevail against the church?
@@storozha777too long, didn't read
@@storozha777this was excellent. Thank you for sharing! Amen!
@TheSuefriend try reading the New Living Translation (NLT). It makes it so easy to understand. God's words will come alive! May you be blessed!
@@Song-Girl-Still-Singing I will! Thank you for the suggestion! God bless ❤️
Isn’t defining faith as “dependence” eisegesis, inserting one’s beliefs into the text rather than relying on text itself? The Greek term translated as “faith” in the NT (πιστις) means nothing of the sort, but rather, “belief.”
No. Eisegeis is imposing an outside concept into the Bible. The function of faith in God is likened to confidence/trust/dependence as outlined in Hebrews, 11:1. So understanding faith this way comes from inside the Bible, not outside the Bible.
Okay, I would also ask, without the original texts, how can anyone know there weren't changes made even from the very 1st "copy" made? Then every copy from that copy would also be wrong, correct?
@@toddhebdon Fair question. Most evangelicals would, today, say that they believe in the original holographs. But all modern Bible translations are from some sort of majority text, usually the UBS edition that is up-to-date at the time of translation. The UBS has footnotes indicating variants from manuscripts dated before about 500 CE. There are a lot of them. Some pages are 80% footnotes showing variants. Evangelicals will counter that the vast majority of these are relatively insignificant, and I would agree, but occasionally, they are super significant. Like the most of the last chapter of Mark, which contains a version of the great commission that the pastor has mentioned several times (Mark 16:15-18, though it appears in earlier manuscripts of Matthew chapter 28) It doesn’t show up until any manuscripts around the year 500. Most likely, Mark originally ended with chapter 16:8 and the rest of the chapter was added much later to make it more “upbeat.”
Good question… there’s a general belief held that it is better that we don’t have the originals because we are so prone to venerate things of this nature (ie the shroud of Turin). There are so many eggs herbs of almost the entire New Testament, not just in manuscripts, but even quoted in letters from people as far back as the first century, we can recognize variance, and have a great deal of confidence that we’re very close to the originals.
I think one comment I would toss back to you is: if the book of Mormon were true, technically Joseph Smith didn’t have the originals either. The gold plates were an abridgment of many other records…. And we no longer have the gold plates. So I don’t see how the Book of Mormon would be any more reliable.
@@HelloSaints Not sure if you were talking to me or Todd, but that's interesting. I was an evangelical from about a 6 to 16 and then LDS from age 16 through my mid 20's and I have never heard that one (the one about not having the holographs so as to avoid idolatry). Interesting.
I'm not defending the Book of Mormon. I think that though it is somewhat difficult to explain where it came from, there is a very low probability that that it is actual history.
If I were to rank the historical reliability of various western scriptures, I would rank them:
1. The Doctrine and Covenants - The historical context for the revelations was well documented at the time and this was never lost. Many holographs remain and though there are some significant changes made to them over time, they were made by Joseph Smith himself.
2. The Hebrew Bible/ OT. - Looking at a critical text of the Hebrew Bible, there are far fewer variants than in the NT. There are a few from the earliest extant manuscripts produced at Qumran in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but relatively few. There are a handful of variants from 900 year old Sephardic versions and the standard Masoretic texts but they are all insignificant. There is limited evidence that the Septuagint (the ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures and a few other books no longer considered canonical) was from a slightly variant version, but also a possibility that Christians altered the Greek texts to make it conform better to Christian theology. The biggest question mark comes from the fact that many of the stories come from oral traditions which are less reliable. Also, there were political influences on the text, like Kings I and II as well as Samuel I and II were written from a less pro-Davidic perspective than Chronicles I and II which seem to sanitize David, and might have been official court histories.
3. The New Testament - Ranked lower because of the many variants I described above as well as questionable canon development.
4. The Book of Mormon - Has some great ideas and insights, like 2 Nephi 2 for example, but there is very little to no evidence of its historicity in the archaeological, anthropological or DNA records.
5. The Pearl of Great Price - Last because it is fraught with problems in terms of history, texts and an unclear intent of Joseph Smith. It's inclusion in the LDS canon is also fraught with issues. These works were assembled into an unauthorized tract in a British Mission, became very popular in Utah and then wormed their way into the LDS canon organically. IMO, the Church should just concede and remove them. (Sorry, LDS friends).