Pastor & Latter-day Saint Bishops: An HONEST Convo
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Pastor Jeff talks with three LDS Bishops and his Latter-day Saint friend, Kurt Francom interviews four Protestant Pastors.
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Special thanks to our launch partner Kurt Francom from leadingsaints.org and all of the bishops and pastors who participated in these conversations.
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between mainstream Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons Christians? What do Evangelicals and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormons and non-LDS Christians.
If you enjoyed this video, you might enjoy a similar video of Pastor Jeff and Joy attending Latter-day Saint church in Utah for the first time: • Our FIRST TIME at a La...
#LatterDaySaints #LDS #churchleadership - Розваги
If you are a Latter-day Saint, what would you ask a Pastor? If you are a Protestant, what would you ask a Bishop?
Hi. I am a primary president of my ward for the past 6 months now and went to a special leadership conference. Where 2 Apostle met with us to help us remember our mission with those who we serve and also correct us in certain cutual things we may have adapted and corrected us. It was a great spiritual moment for me personally and had many revelation pop into my head how I can help the children and families of primary children. Do pastors meet together and learn from each other? Do each pastror get training from time to time?
What is the view about women being Protestant pastors?
I want to know if pastors get into a self-condemnation phase when they reflect on their sins and mistakes? It is so easy for LDS Christians to get into that (which stems from pride, we know), but I wonder if pastors ever get into that rut. Trying to remember that Christ is our enabler can be so hard, but so important.
@@natedawg2020many Christian denominations train and appoint women pastors. Assembly of God and Nazarene are the two I'm familiar with.
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328So is that a majority of Protestants or not really?
My husband is currently serving as a bishop of a ward and I wanted to add to the discussion. Before being extended the calling I was asked in private about the character of my husband and how he treated me in both public and private. While my husband is the bishop, the calling was presented to both of us and it is the work of both husband and wife. The experience shared about a Sunday seems to be an extreme example. My husband is at church for about 4 hours on Sunday along with 2 to 3 other evenings a week.
This is more in line with what my Sundays look like.
Yes, I agree during my two times as a Bishop I usually spend 2-3 hours after church in business and during the week two meetings. Except if you were called out by a member or some situation had developed
I loved my time as a Bishop with the full support of my wife.
It definitely depends on the needs of the ward/branch. We live in a ward that has high needs. My husband is at the church from 7am-5pm most Sundays. He has additional interviews Wednesday evenings for about an hour or two. And then youth night on Thursday for 2 hours. Plus the barrage of calls, texts, other occasional activities (girls camp visit, fundraiser, stake meetings, etc.) throughout the week. He delegates what he can. Still crazy busy.
I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I grew up in different churches and went to a very strict Baptist University in Virginia. But I kept thinking there has to be something out there where it isn't just going to church on Sunday morning for 2 hours unless it was cut short.
Three years before we began investigating the church, my mom won an all expense paid vacation to Hawaii. She was very prim and proper. When they arrived, it was hot, and they said they had to shower three if not four times a day. Then they went to the Polynesian cultral center, and she said it was a cool breeze, and before she knew it, she filled out the form at the end.
A week later, missionaries came. Mom told them they couldn't come in because my dad had just gotten home from work and was sleeping. Every Saturday for a month, they rode their bikes almost 10 miles to our house. Then they came on a Wednesday. That was when things changed.
The Church I was going to had a change in ministers, and I didn't feel comfortable around him. I stopped going to church and started attending the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The minister came to my work, department store. In front of everyone, he started telling me i was going to Hell for even having the missionaries in my home. My manager came up and asked if he needed to call the police. I told him, "No, because the more he screams and shakes his first at me and cusses, the more i know I'm doing what the devil doesn't like. "
This same minister was fired for having an affair and beating his wife. I've been a member for over 35 years. I married a return missionary who is 4 years younger, and if I had joined the church earlier, I wouldn't have even looked at him to date. We have been married 33 years. Married in the Atlanta Temple. We have 2 kids. Our son went on a mission where he was given the opportunity to baptize over 25 people. He says he didn't do it but was given the opportunity to perform the baptism because Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are the ones who open the people's hearts and minds to learn.
Growing up in different churches every 3-5 years, our preachers/ ministers were moved. So even if it is a lifetime calling, they still moved around.
When I joined the church, I wondered why there weren't any female bishops, but then I learned women are given a greater calling, to raise righteous children and serve others. Let me add when i was in college, I was going to become a reverend. I had a female minister that I loved and am still in contact with her. I know now that it is OK for women not to hold the calling of a bishop because women have a harder calling.
My mom passed away almost 3 years ago, and I'm so thankful for the church and all the love and support I've received because this has been the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. When my mom died, we got guardianship over my younger sister and brother. Both are Downs Syndrome. I've been in counseling for 3 years, and I know I wouldn't have gotten counseling if it wasn't for my church because I've tried counselors who aren't members.
I know without a doubt I'm exactly where I'm meant to be. I know that my Heavenly Father loves me even when I make mistakes. My Heavenly Father shows me this every day.
The day of my momma s funeral, I was crying uncontrollably. I was angry. I don't believe in calling Heavenly Father God because I personally feel it is equivalent to calling my earthly father by his given name. I said, "God, I've always loved knowing You only give me as much as I can handle. I can't do this. Just take me now. " At that exact moment, I felt my mommas hand on my forehead and cheek like she did when checking our temperature. I don't remember anything else until my husband said "Youu havetoo eat or drink something". I thought I had just gone to slee, but it was 15+ hours that I slept. I knew then that I'm so LOVED by my Heavenly Father, and I've not doubted Him since then.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints. I have had a number spiritual experiences since joining and I have a testimony of the prophets and leaders of my church. I am grateful and happy to be a member.🖖
Religion is very spiritualistic. It's chocked full with power and high demand.
OUR GRANDFATHER WAS A
BISHOP AND HE HELPED US
HIS GRANDCHILDREN TO BE
TAUGHT BY THE FULL TIME MISSIONARIES, BE BAPTIZED
AND BECAME MEMBERS OF
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. WE ARE FOREVER GRATEFUL AND THANKFUL
TO HIM FOR HIS ACT OF
LOVE AND KINDNESS.
I am also a RS President. I love my calling. I love to minister to the sisters and I feel the mantle of leadership and it’s amazing how the spirit works! I am currently assigning ministering sisters. So many amazing women serving in our church! I feel blessed to be in such a calling and have the opportunity to help others!!
Amen to that!
Good peoplefor sure. Joseph Smith and Brigham young not.
@@JIKOKALOL Yes, they were.
I’m 66, a lifelong member, and my LDS membership is so deeply sacred! Tears fill my eyes as I count my blessings in deep gratitude for being so very lucky compared to those who live without the knowledge and comfort afforded by my membership in this beautiful religion. I feel each day, an expectation from the Lord to do my best, serve and magnify my own callings because of these precious blessings. I grew up in a very liberal city, with few members, but those members, especially my bishops were rock solid examples of being like Jesus Christ. I was given vital, timely, inspired advice from each of these Bishops, and I honor them for being true to this holy priesthood calling.
I'm a middle school teacher, and I collect cards and notes in a folder, too. I call it my sunshine folder, and I read through it on hard days. I'm also a recently called Relief Society President in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I love this discussion on leadership. Thanks, brothers!
I can't even begin to tell you how much i love my bishop. Not only does he do all the typical duties of running the ward, but he truly cares for the individual person. My husband and I are Chronically ill. My bishop has gone with us to the er late in the night. He sat with us in the waiting room and helped in all he could. He also showed up to teach my oldest son how to mow the lawn because my husband couldn't show him. And that is only my family. I don't know how he does it, but he does. I love him and appreciate him so much
I am a latter day saint in Australia, what you are discussing is the same through out the world in the church. We are one, we all have bishops who do similar things, no matter where we go in the world it is the same. We all have testimonies of the truth. Any one of us would do the same as this wonderful bishop or aspire to do it. We all experience small to amazing miracles on a regular basis. We have burning testimonies that the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints is Christ's restored church. Where ever you go in the world it is the same.
I love the church of Jesus Christ of lader day saints. They have different teachers or members of the congregations speak . I love this, it gives all the opportunity to grow, witness and teach of our Lord and Savior Lord Jesus. . Thanks Jeff .
I remember when a family friend got released from being a bishop, someone asked him what he was going to do now he was released. He said 'go home and take a nap.'
Man! I LOVED when Clint came to my high school years ago and played his drums and gave us a motivational speech. I have no doubt that Clint connects wonderfully with the youth of his ward.
Thank you for taking the time to investigate the differences between our church and protestant churches!
I've learned a lot about not only mainstream Christianity, but my own religion as well. These guests you've been able to talk with have been amazing, and I'm always excited for every new upload. Thank you for being a peacemaker!
I love the authenticity of you men! I love and appreciate you for the leadership you are offering. 💞
Me too, from the “Protestant” perspective.
[I don’t like the label of “Protestant” or any other, but it’s for the sake of clarity here.]
I love the times I get to learn from the missionaries that visit and even still keep in touch via messenger. It’s a wonderful way to connect with others and discover more about what others believe and even define more what I believe too. I’ve been more invested in the Bible when I’m in times of regular visits from missionaries and it’s invigorating! I look forward to them coming, often with so many questions and thoughts to bring before these beautiful young men and women, and eager to hear what they have to bring to the discussion including any follow up from their last visit’s discourse. I’ve had to put visits in hold for now but I’m hoping life will settle for us and soon I can begin inviting missionaries over for hot cocoa and nibbles with an open Bible once again.
I've known Clint Pulver since 2010. The man is truly a legend. Whoever thought that drummer and bishop would be embodied by the same being. Pretty cool.
There's one point that need be made though, a pastor is an employee of the church, he's employed by the church, so he is paid... this is his full-time job. Whereas the Bishop he has a full-time job out of the church and gets paid nothing at all from the church he serves.
The Bible does say that a worker is worthy to be paid.
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 That is NOT my point.
@@janetspiritofthelivinggod6328 in our faith, callings (volunteer church service) are paid with blessings, not money (with the exception of global leadership whose roles and responsibilities demand so much time that having other employment would be impossible, so they do get a paycheck/stipend). But for jobs, financial compensation is absolutely appropriate!
What is your point?
@@paulineharry Obvious. The LDS Bishops work two jobs, and one for no pay.
I am proud LDS SAINT thank you
ALL men of God, serving our Savior, walking with Him, depending upon Him. Thanks to ALL of you who serve Jesus by serving His children. Powerful conversations… Many thanks to all of you…. For you service. Love to all of you…
Oh my, it was so hard to hear that the Bishop’s first funeral he conducted was for his little son, while his wife was tending to two their little ones. 😢Would love to have heard that situation acknowledged, how heartbreaking and what a test of faith. Maybe this video was edited and hopefully this was acknowledged.
Although most Bishops only serve for 5-7 years, it is not unusual that being called as
Bishop comes after years of other high service callings. My father was called as Elder's Quorum President only two years after being baptized. Five years later he was called as a counselor in the Bishopric, and for the next 30 he served as either a Bishopric councilor, High Councilor, Bishop, or Executive Secretary, with the only break being a two year period as a Nursery Leader. He was in his late 60s before being called as a Sunday School teacher for the first time in the Church.
Recently our Stake President was called as an Area 70. He had served seven years as Stake President, five years as First Councilor in the Stake Presidency, five in the High Council, seven as a Bishop, and four as a councilor in a Bishopric. By the time that he will be released from his current calling, he will have spent his whole adult life in a leadership calling.
Churches know those who won't say no. They depend on these servant/slaves to keep things running.
As a wife who is married to a good man who has served in many leadership callings in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I wouldn't have it any other way. 😊
A bishop is called to serve as a bishop for an average of 5 years, but we hold the office of a bishop for life, even after being released.
Is that true, or is that a tradition we sometimes espouse? All former bishops I know have the listed priesthood office of high priest
They can be called Bishop as an honorary title.. I believe.
@@paulineharry It is not honorary, but an actual office in the Aaronic Priesthood.
@@BrianTerrill They are both. Bishop is an office in the Aaronic Priesthood and High Priest is an office in the Melchizedek. As the D&C explains only the sons of Aaron have a lineage right to the office of Bishop, but as High Priests can officiate in all lower offices a High Priest can be ordained to the office of Bishop as well. Technically, the Presiding Bishop of the Church is the President of the Quorum of Bishops, but that aspect of the calling is rarely invoked today. Most of the responsibilities of the Bishop have more to do with being the Presiding High Priest of the Ward or being the President of the Priests Quorum. Incidentally, the Stake President is formally the President of a Quorum of High Priests, which is the source of their authority.
@@paulineharryyes! I typically will call a former bishop of mine Bishop out of affection/respect.
My husband served in several bishoprics and it took a toll on our marriage, but we made it through. Just being honest, we definitely fought more during those times, but we were young and had a lot of growing to do. I struggled with health issues the whole time, so it made taking care of the kids thstvmuch harder.
This was amazing. The sacrifice that bishops and stake presidents make to the church without monetary compensation is immense. My family and I are not cut out for it. Thanks for a great episode, and I always appreciate your commentary and the lens you view the LDS church through.
“Bishop” is from Greek “episkopos,” which means “overseer,” just like a pastor oversees their sheep.
As a decades long past Catholic, the Catholic priests are overwhelmed with the day to day running of their parish (this is in Utah). I simply can’t imagine being an LDS Bishop having to juggle running a ward, a family, and being the financial breadwinner. Seems almost impossible. The parish priest forfeits family and lives off a supplied modest living allowance. Yeah it’s a life long commitment but the shear volume of problems (that I’ve witnessed) is crazy. I’d last about a month as a Catholic priest. I’d last about an hour as an LDS Bishop. Thanks for the interesting conversation.
Having two councilors, executive secretary, 2-4 clerks, the Relief Society and Elders Quorum, youth, Primary and Sunday School Presidencies helps. A fully staffed ward has a leadership cadre of 30 people. That's not counting all the teachers and other callings (30-40). then every active adult has two to four families assigned to them as a pastoral ministry.
Bishops do a lot but not alone fortunately.
The perish priest does it all, though, with the exception of a few things. They hear confessions and conduct mass, including the breaking of bread. They perform the baptisms, only the bishops perform confirmations, and of course, the priests are the ones who anoint the sick, etc.
In our church, anyone who is a deacon can pass sacrament. Teachers can help as ministering brethern, priest can bless the sacrament, break the bread, baptize, ordain other priest teachers and deacons. Elders can confirm and bless the sick, etc. So the typical duties 3 or 4 perish priest do can be delighted in our church to any who hold the right priesthood office.
@@BrianTerrillLDS don’t hold the priesthood. Only the Catholic Church does
Glory to Jesus Christ!🙏☦️❤️
I love your perspective so much. Thank you for sharing your Catholic thoughts :)
Thanks Pastor Jeff, for putting this platform up to have these discussions. Also thanks to Joy. So glad you're both here.
As a member of the LDS church I would much rather stuff like this happen, than alienate ourselves from those of other Christian faiths, especially during these crazy times when people are disregarding God and Christ. Finding commonality is better.
Talking about the importance of taking ego either in self condemnation/burnout or getting drunk on praise, there is a similar challenge in working in a mental health field. I am working with kids with autism, and it is really easy to let a bad day or a bit of praise get to you. Remembering Jesus is who can and is making a difference through me is critical.
It also reminds me of nehor in the Book of Mormon, how he let his love of glory and setting himself up as a light led to his own destruction.
This is cool to learn about other churches
What an excellent discussion! Having been a bishop myself, I too had to really work on humility just keep recognizing that my congregation was looking at the position as a source of spiritual leadership and not at me personally as the source of that spiritual leadership. It is so fulfilling for sure but is taxing on my wife and I. Thank you for this conversation and I can’t wait for the full discussion in the summit.
@Hello Saints Thank you for this! It's especially useful for you to be bringing in other pastors and for us as LDS to see what pastors do on a daily basis, what you struggle with, what your successes are, where your focus is. I especially like what the one pastor said about about not getting drunk in your own self-worth and making it about you, but rather the focus staying on the message and on Jesus Christ.
Whether it's a bishop in the LDS church, or a pastor in mainstream Christianity, I appreciate all of the work all of you do. It's quite a calling, and quite a lot of work to minister to a congregation and to try and fulfill, or rather help fulfill, the needs of so many.
Clint came to my school once and he's an amazing man! So glad to see him here
As a membet of The church of Jesus Christ of lds and a military wife good fir you Clint in having your kids sit with you
I am an LDS member. I have gone to "small group" meetings with friends, and I loved it.
Pastor Jeff read the book of Mormon. When asked to pray about it he said no thanks. I believe the Lord answers sincere prayers. He didn't want to bring it before the Lord. That told me alot right out of the gate. I prayed about it and received a testimony that it was truth. So I question his motives. But the Lord's ways are not our ways. We'll see what comes from his journey.
This is just a stream of income for him. Doing it for CLOUT
Clout and some sort of weird social experiment for fun. Lol.. he knows the truth or maybe his heart is just so hard that it won’t accept it because he doesn’t want to be wrong
I like that thought… I’m a half a step away if I am not walking with Jesus. So true.. consistently and intently walking with Jesus makes things so much more possible and doable.
When Elders Quorum Presidents are properly utilized and not just treated as the free moving service coordinator they can be a very useful help for their bishops.
While we believe the Lord calls people to every position in wards stakes etc we also believe He gives us our agency to choose wether or not we want to accept these callings. It is never forced. And some do turn down callings. However some callings require more intensity of study time etc than others. Bishops definitely fall into a category that both husband and wife need to accept the calling together even though only one is called. I'd say its the same with being a relief society President. The husband definitely needs to be 100% supportive of his wife as this is also a very time intensive calling.
I currently serve in a bishopric. It is stressful planning sacrament meetings. There is a long check list I use if I am conducting. There is a template for sacrament meeting. There are meetings before and after the two hour block. Plus tithing, bank deposit, and checks to write. I start at 7:30 am and finish at 2:00 pm. The hours are longer some Sundays.
We don’t do sermons because our scripture study is done at home on our own time striving to read the scriptures daily. We do have classes to help with scripture study at the church however
I would add that our personal and family scripture study, the goal of those are always to grow in our knowledge of the gospel and in our love of Jesus Christ and to be more like him. And therefore, when we are asked to get up and give a talk in sacrament meeting, we can share the things that we have learned in the past. In its own little way, that's a sermon. Although we are not called to do so on a everyday basis. Some of the best talks in church, are those that come from our experience, and our understanding of the scriptures.
Yes, absolutely! Thank you for helping me explain it better!
@@adelamiranda3853 Thank you for your comments and testimony here today. A lot of people give pastor Jeff a hard time, but I'm finding all of his videos to be extremely useful, and the dialogue between the mainstream Christian community and LDS to be extremely helpful. Have a great Sabbath.
The bishops have the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood. They have Heavenly help to do the Lords work.
I love this.... Love one another
I haven't been a Bishop, but I've been a member of the Ward Council or the Bishopric for the past 5 Bishops my Ward has had. Every one of them were men filled with love for others and focused on helping them. The meetings were never about 'how do we get this number up' but 'what does this person or family need to be strengthened in the Lord'. Delegation is very important, there is the Elders Quorum President, Relief Society President, councilors and others that can and should support the Bishop by taking on the tasks for their organization. I would guess the that Bishopric and Ward Council collectively do what a full time Pastor does, and perhaps a bit more.
Great conversations and points on all sides.
I grew up Mormon was always taught that you know the spiritual aspect of the subjective part of my life in the sense of experiences with the savior Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, as well as our heavenly father was all I needed as I grown older. I do now see I need tons of logic. This is why I study the Bible finding 40,000+ manuscripts that all saying the same thing, and so forth, the Bible is the word of God, the authority of God, old and new and final Testament of God there is no more. Jesus Christ is the seal of all the prophets Hebrews one verse one ❤
I’ve always wondered about the fact that for a lot of churches, being a pastor is like having a small business. You need “customers”to stay in “business”…. Does that make it hard for pastors to preach unpopular church doctrines like a post-tribulation rapture?
That’s a good question
I love D&C 121 and recommend it to the pastors to look up. It fits everywhere.
Most if not all on the weekday work for LDS members are done after work because most people work and service in the church are unpaid. Very similar to Protestant members who volunteer to serve. Bishops have it hard because for most its on the job training. And deligating and choosing good councilors will greatly reduce the work load.
I dont mean to sound critical of bishops working hard but oftentimes a lot of the burden they hold is because they are unwilling to delegate to others who hold the priesthood authority to do certain things under his direction. For example, if he is not able, a member of the bishopric can conduct a funeral in the ward. If it is his child's funeral, thats a good case where the bishop needs to be sitting with his family and cannot conduct.
There was a reason Jethro rebuked Moses and taught him to delegate authority, hogging it up would wear anyone out.
Most of the time when I have attended funerals for a member of the Bishop's immediate family, I have seen the Stake President conducting the funeral.
That’s a valid point
So true. A good leader delegates, so they aren't doing everything.
You should interview a stake president!
I was baptized Catholic. Then when I married my husband was Lutheran. We raised our daughter Lutheran. My daughter moved out and my husband stopped going many years prior. I found that I had practice out of routine instead of love for the Lord. I had never read the Bible. In 2017 I found a path to the Bible by way of the Book of Mormon. I would ask pastor, When someone passes away from a mistake of drug overdose. How do you comfort the mother and child who now is no longer with them.
Please tour the Church History Museum in salt lake!
I've never been called as a bishop, but I was 2nd counselor in the EQ for 2 years, EQ President for 2 years, 1st Counselor in the Bishopric for 5 years, Ward Mission Leader for 2 years, and I've currently been the ward clerk for 3 years. In all callings, you can be as busy as you want to be. Your choice to magnify your calling, or just go through the motions. I have seen bishops that over function, and don't delegate enough to the EQP, the RSP, and their counselors, clerk and secretary.
It's Elder Kestler!
Just genuinely curious to how Pastor Jeff (because he’s more familiar with LDS bishops and members than an average Protestant) feels about pastors making a living doing what Latter-Day Saint Bishops and members do for free (preparing and giving sermons/talks, counseling and serving with members and other leaders in their ward, and ministering to individuals and families).
They are similar roles, but not the same. Watch the full conversation to see what I mean. Pastors do significantly more. BUT much respect to Bishops and their servants' heart to fulfill the calling!!!
Love it. Great video.
By the way, Pastor Jeff, when are you going to finish the Book of Mormon? 😉
Hey Mr Pastor, So when are you and your wife going to join our LDS family❓ WE WOULD SURE LOVE TO HAVE YOU TWO among us ❣️❤️🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Is that a complete set of the Joseph Smith Papers behind the pastor? Either way, that was very good.
First off, I have enjoyed the honest dialogue of all of the Hello Saints episodes. I think my testimony of the Savior has gotten stronger since finding this channel because it's given me the chance to ponder and pray with a different perspective and a more open mind! One question I've always had since childhood, but never been brave enough to ask someone of a different faith is why pastors and preachers get paid as a "job" when the Savior Himself didn't even get paid? He was a carpenter like his earthly father, Joseph. I have recently been told that it's in the Bible that preachers should be paid. I have never seen that so I'm curious what scriptures this person might be referencing. Sincerely asking...a Bishop's wife. 😅
Numbers 8: 8-32 Described how the priests were cared for in the Old Testament.
In the New Testament, full-time positions in the church were set up by Jesus to rely on other people for their substance. These positions, at least, included missionaries and apostles. And these practices partially continue in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today because Apostles have to quit their jobs; and many, if not most, 18-year-old missionaries don’t have their own money for a 2 year mission. Paul told one group of saints that he was trying not to rely on them for support, but he lets them know that other congregations were paying his way ( see 2 Corinthians 11: 7-9). And Paul made it clear that he had a right to ask for physical support (1 Corinthians 9: 9-14).
Some other References include:
Matthew 10: 8-10
1Timothy 5: 17-18
Galatians 6:6
Luke 10:7
Very enlightening discussions. Wonderful frankness.
NO WAY NO WAY CLINT PULVER IS MY BISHOPPPP IRLLLL
How do the congregation raise money and Donations? Does the Pastor receive a salary?
We have tithing that goes to the church as a whole, various things use tithing funds between funds for various church activities, buildings, etc. The people who serve the ward, ie bishops, etc do not receive any salary.
Yes, pastors receive saleies. We also tithe. But a significant percent of the church's budget goes to paying staff rather than to a central HQ. If they have denominational expenses, they are usually relatively small.
How does the professionalization of the cleric help guide the church?
I don't understand the question. Can you explain what you mean when you say "the professionalization of the cleric"?
There are no professional clerical in the LDS church.
It seems to me that if for example Pastor Jeff converted yo the LDS church he would lose his livelihood. I think a lot of times this creates a great reason why many evangelical, protestant, and baptist ministers fight against the LDS church so vehemently.
@@ameyers67Jeff doesn't have his own church so how does he get paid now? UA-cam I believe. I could be wrong.
Joining the church wouldn't stop him from making money on UA-cam. There are LDS UA-camrs that make money and I presume they also have callings in their wards.
@@gbengoosewuru4139from my understanding Jeff has a job from his denomination, like an LDS stake president or of a larger area. The individual churches support the denomination for administrative and counseling services. However not all Christian churches are part of a greater denomination.
looks like a great symposium for open sharing.
I am a latter day saint and I am disappointed when I see pastor Jeff ask for donations. As a latter day Saints we never ask for money when we are doing the Lord's work.
Not sure where this is coming from. I did this summit through the coaching of primarily Latter-day Saint friends and influencers. All of the Latter-day Saint influencers I know and those involved in the summit also ask for donations regularly. Look into it. This is not about getting rich, this is about funding this effort so we can keep it going.
Is it a requirement for everybody to have the same haircut on this podcast? 🤣
lol 💈
“I love to see the temples” lol
Today's fashion. 100 years ago was different
So, Pastor Jeff, do you see the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as a Christian denomination? Simple Yes or No?
Jeff have you met Greg Johnson yet?
Where do pastors get their authority from?
Ultimately, Jesus Christ. But they attend a college or university and obtain a bachelor's degree and then off to seminary to where they're ordained. They don't officially become a pastor until they're installed as a Church Pastor. They are, however, reverends whether or not they are a church pastor.
@@mcnielentertainmentHow does Jesus Christ give that authority?
@@sherylparsons2104 Jesus' authority given to the apostles/disciples and then from the apostles, which is known as Apostolic Succession.
So, bishops in LDS are the same as ministers if different areas or ministries in Protestant churches.
So what in that a Bishop is the presiding authority of a local congregation. Bishops serve for 5-10 years and are chosen by the Stake President, not the local congregation. Since they are unpaid volunteers, they still need to maintain a full time paid job during the week.
Please do an interview with Brad wilcox for kicks and giggles
I would love to see a conversation between you and Jared Halverson. He also does a lot of interfaith work!
In the works!
Jared is awesome. I watch his come follow lessons. Maybe David Alexander would be an interesting guest!
Definitely do a female Paster too next would be great In site
Women can't be pastors
I used to think that it was wrong for pastors to get paid for their work. As I have learned more about other Christian churches, I can understand the merits behind it. And pastoring is as much of a labor of love as it is being a bishop. I'm so grateful for conversations like this!
You said you were raised in the Pentecostal church. Have you ever spoken in tongues? I would like you to ask a male missionary or a Bishop to give you a priesthood blessing. Would you do that? Before you do, tell them you have spoken in tongues, if you have.
Bishops and Pastors can learn so much from each other. Especially Bishops from Pastor's who have been in this leadership role as a career to help our leaders in the Church of Jesus Christ to put off that egoism and narcissism.
I have two friends that are baptist pastors and hold full time jobs as well. Not every pastor is able to be a full time pastor though that may be what they hope to accomplish eventually.
Do Latter-day Saints believe that they are able to become exalted to a point worthy of being worshiped themselves?
I’ve never read about that in any uniquely lds literature, but there are scriptures in proverbs that suggest something similar.
Proverbs 31:28 Her children arise and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her:
29 “Many women do noble things, but you surpass them all.”
30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting; but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
31 Honor her for all that her hands have done, and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
Explore the doctrine of Christ my friend.
A bishop currently is not an employee of the church but the Doctrine and Covenants allows for it:
" 13 And again, let the bishop appoint a storehouse unto this church; and let all things both in money and in meat, which are more than is needful for the wants of this people, be kept in the hands of the bishop.
14 And let him also reserve unto himself for his own wants, and for the wants of his family, as he shall be employed in doing this business.(Doctrine and Covenants 51:13-14)
“Employed” here is a term used in the 19th century which is not exclusive to a paid job. It also means “to make use of” or to “keep occupied.” These last two definitions are the spirit of which the D&C makes use of the term, “employed.”
@latter-daysaintchristian4134 Even if your argument were correct, you ignored the first part of the verse where the Bishop can take from the storehouse to supply their needs. Let's not be like other churches and ignore parts of our scriptures to try to manipulate an interpretation we find favorable.
@@BrianTerrill Taken as a whole, this passage still does not imply that a bishop is an employee of the church in the traditional sense. There is no fixed monetary or material compensation. But, of course, if left to private interpretation, scriptures can be understood different ways. However, it is not up to individual members to interpret scriptures regarding church policy or doctrine. That is not our lane. The fact that prophets and apostles have implemented church policy and thereby interpreted this verse to mean a bishop is not employed in the traditional sense (regardless of the provision that he can take “for his wants” carries far more weight than your interpretation. In fact, prophets and apostles have often stated that, in large, we do not have a paid clergy. This remains true even if a bishop is “allowed to take for his own wants, and for the wants of his family.” The bishop is a member of the ward. If he had wants (an old fashioned word for “needs,” ) then he and his family would indeed be entitled to draw from the storehouse. The difference seems to be that members in general cannot take for themselves, but must have approval from the bishop to draw from the storehouse.
This would still apply to the Presiding Bishopric.
@Steelblaidd that's an interpretation but not what the Lord meant. Unfortunately, we are turning into Evangelicals and interpreting our doctrine as we would like it not as the Lord spoke it.
Didn’t know where to put this? Just finished listening to the summit day 1. Both speakers were excellent. Loved learning about the faith journey of Luther and his growth in understanding of faith and works. I think I finally understand the Protestant view at least a little? So it hinges on the idea of passive vs active righteousness with salvation being passive and loving others active - ? As a LDS I think we would say faith is always active but regardless, I didn’t get the full picture. Don’t some faith traditions in Protestantism believe baptism is required or is that only Catholics? Is it correct to say Lutherans believe baptism is essential (regeneration) so how and where does it fit in? It is a work is it not since it is an active thing we need to do. I didn’t feel like he answered the full question he set out to answer.
Bishop I admire you commitment! One thing occurs to me though: are you letting your Elders Quorum President do his job as thoroughly as he is called to? I was an EQ President for 5 years and my Bishop had me doing a lot. He is there to take some of the load off you.
FOR ALL LIVE UNTO GOD (LUKE 20:38):
All things were made by God’s power and spirit alone and by himself (Isaiah 44:24). God the Father proves His power and spirit belongs to him and him alone when he raised Jesus from the dead. Nothing can live without God’s power and spirit; it is by God’s power and spirit that Jesus came back to life. It was God the Father who raised the dead and casted out demons through his Son, for he [the Father] doeth the works (John 14:10). Jesus does all things by the power and spirit of God within him (Matthew 12:28). As the Father has life in himself, so has he given to the son to have life in himself (John 5:26); the Father has given Jesus authority to execute judgment also, for Jesus is the Son of man.
All made by God will be resurrected; only God the Father himself cannot be resurrected. We must become like Jesus and have God’s power and spirit become one with us (2 Corinthians 6:16).
Pastor Jeff deletes all the comments that he doesn't like LOL.
I don’t delete comments. Sometimes youtube withholds comments if they are tagged as inappropriate or questionable.
It doesn't serve anybody's interest to delete comments. (And I don't think that's happening). The sprit of discussion is good, if all participants retain a sense of decency and respect towards each other.
So even though someone is no longer a bishop, they can still be extended a different calling. Just because someone is no longer in a main leadership role, whether they’re a teacher, or a nursery helper, their role is just as important in ministering to other people.
P Jeff is critiqueing LDS for months and months, attention seeking or collecting the funds from Google. Getting suspicious!
@@cindyleavitt8948 Monetization from UA-cam clicks is not unusual, and in and of itself, is not to be suspect. Lots of people make their living through their UA-cam channels. That being said, I believe that what Jeff is doing is beneficial to both the LDS and the mainstream Christian communities. Have a great day.
But they do have paid clergy.
Depends on both how one defines "paid" and "clergy". Legally, in the United States at least, the few full time General Authorities who accept a living stipend are not considered it as taxable income by the IRS. The vast majority of paid employees of the LDS church are not considered professional clergy.
@@brettmajeske3525 But they do have paid clergy.
You sound like Bill Clinton with the "it depends how you define" statement.
@@rodneyjamesmcguire So how do you define the terms? Insisting that LDS clergy are paid without explaining what you mean by that is confusing.
I once had a Stake President who worked for the Church translation department. He was both clergy and paid by the Church, but he was not being paid because he was clergy. The employment was incidental to his calling.
No one is claiming that Church employees cannot also serve as lay clergy. Is that what you are talking about.
@@brettmajeske3525 First Presidency, The 12, Presidency of the 70, Presiding Bishopric, First quorom of 70, Mission Presidents, are paid.
I think you may be trying to confuse it, actually.
The church has paid clergy. I made neither a positive or negative assertion about it.
@@rodneyjamesmcguire So you choose to disagree with the official [policies of the IRS in determining what constitutes a salary? Reimbursing someone for expenses is income?
By your implied interpretation then almost every member of the Church counts since everyone can get reimbursement for their individual callings.
I think you are confused about just what a living stipend consists of and where it comes from. You seem to think it is a salary General Authorities are given for their clerical duties. Both the Church and the IRS would disagree.
Almost every non-profit organization has a board of trustees. Officially GAs are offered the opportunity to accept a living stipend as trustees not as clergy. Several choose not to accept, but most become GAs in their 50s, before it is reasonable for them to be prepared to retire. They are expected to relocate from their homes and engage in frequent travel. That gets quite expensive.
Primary teachers are not expected to pay for crayons and paper when asking their students to draw Jesus in class. The Church provides reasonable resources for every calling in the Church, but no one is making a profit off of those reimbursements. If the Ward pays for my gasoline when I drive a group of youth to Nauvoo or Kirkland, that is not me suddenly becoming paid clergy.
Ex member here… I really think it would benefit the church to have a professional clergy. Have a divinity degree from BYU that covers doctrine, scripture, and family counseling. Church would pay for the degree in exchange for the bishop agreeing to be posted anywhere for a certain period of time. Bishops could still call his counselors from his ward. Make this his full time job.
Callings in the church help us to be humble, love one another, and love God.
@@denisemilne1330right. I’m saying Bishop, SP, and above should be paid professional clergy. Everyone else can still be volunteer like it is now.
@soloban81 the Lord the head of the church, not man.
I would have applied to be a bishop right out of high school if that was the case… and perhaps would have quit soon after.
@@denisemilne1330 not sure I see your point. You do realize that 1st Quorum 70s and Quroum of the 12 and First Presidency are all paid by the church as are countless church employees. Don’t see how adding bishops, stake presidents, and Area Authorities to the payroll and substantially educating them in things that would benefit the people they serve every day would take away from anything.
I'm leaving the Church for historical Christianity. The idea that the layaty and everyone holding the 'priesthood' never sat well with me. And I see no evidence this is how the early Church functioned. A Priest used to be the most educated and knowledgeable person in the village or city. Latter-day Saint Bishops have no formal training and are no more qualified than anyone.
If jesus christ picked for his apostles fisherman and lawyers and such to drop what they were doing and join him right then and there..... and picked men that were once a slave like joseph of egypt and a man who was once in the pharaoh's own home like moses who most certainly didn't get taught in the hebrew ways to be his prophets.... I think that a bishop is more than qualified especially when most attended a seminary in their youth, served a mission, and regularly go through leadership trainings and meetings throughout the year is qualified as well.
The Levites in the house of Israel were trained in the book of Levitucus (and probably more). A Levite in every household, and they were an entire tribe with many people. I can't say how educated they were compared to the Kings of Judah or Israel, or compared to the average fisherman or carpenter, but maybe you have done more studying on that front that me. Paul was a Roman, not a Jew, but he was called to be a missionary and had great success. The most learned in the scriptures were the people who followed Christ and tormented Him and His apostles. Bishops study The Bible and Book of Mormon and preach from it, and that's enough training for me. (They are also given high level leadership training frequently.)
I believe that Peter, James, and John gave the keys of the Priesthood to Joseph Smith, under the direction of Jesus Christ. I also believe that people can be adopted into the house of Israel and that the Lord allows non-levites to use the Priesthood. Have you prayed about these things before?
Acts chapter 8 comes to mind. Simon recognized that Peter and John had power to bestow the Holy Ghost upon others and thought to pay money to have such a power. This serves as an evidence for me of the truth claims of the LDS church since Bishops do not pay anything for the authority or priesthood they hold and are not paid while they serve. Many Protestant organizations on the other hand require a paid seminary. Then Pastors go on to be paid ministers.
Peter was a fisherman. Matthew was tax collector.
God. Who is our Father, helps men become like Him through the priesthood. He doesn't want just some of His sons to become like Him, He wants all of His sons to become like Him. In the temple women are declared holy. Men become holy through helping others as a priesthood duty .
Only the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints teaches that our bodies of flesh and bones will be resurrected and immortal to have an eternal marriage, like Adam and Eve, The reason God told Joseph Smith all other churches are an abomination in His sight is because they unwittingly help Satan waste our mortality by teaching marriage cannot be forever.
We were single and separate as spirit sons and daughters of God, and if we don't live for eternal marriage because we don't believe it can be forever, we will have wasted our mortal probation. For this reason also the Book of Mormon teaches there are save two churches only
I was a Mormon for 15 years and there’s nothing “Christian” about the Mormon church, starting with the false Jesus they believe in. I’m now an Evangelical Christian and I only believe in the Bible. I pray for all the Mormon’s I have known and met.
It's good you left us.why did you join the LDS church if you knew we worship wrong Jesus or not christian .no one will ever tell me that LDS worship wrong Jesus.they is nothing like wrong Jesus there is only one Jesus Christ who was chosen in heaven to be our savior.who was crucified in jerusalem.one day you will be ashamed to know that the wrong Jesus LDS worship is the true Messiah who died for everyone .those are just excuses because LDS church always remind us always to keep God's commandments.
I was a Mormon, and went on a mission, the church don’t know the Bible Christ. That bishop should get paid for all the work he does. And the Book of Mormon is not another witness for Christ. It’s a 19 century book. Joseph smith was just a huge liar, I just learned that Smith married young girls about 14 , 15 years old. And his wife didn’t know about it. I left the church in 1986 , I left the church because I found out about the “ Adam God Doctrine” and the 9 versions off the first version. Lies all lies……..more !
Thank you for praying for us. I am sad that you could not find Christ in our church, but happy that you say you feel closer to him now.
I have grown closet to Christ in this church and am grateful for Christ's light and spirit in my life.
I appreciate your prayers :)
As for Jesus, I believe He died for our sins and lives today, resurrected, to bring us hope and joy. Did your Jesus not die for your sins?
I'm very certain this is exactly the kind of discussion this channel was created to fight against.
Thank you for praying for us. But please don't be hostile about it.
I would have like to see interviews with the Bishop’s wives. The LDS Church is not kind to the women of the Church, it just appears to be.
Hi Jennifer, I am sorry if you have personally been treated unkindly by anyone in the Church of Jesus Christ. As a female member of the Church, I have had the opposite treatment.
That's an extremely broad comment. If you've seen or experienced mistreatment as a woman in the LDS church, I'm sorry. I do not believe there's a systemic problem. We all, however, are far from perfect. All of us.
@@Connie201 , I was never treated unkind to my face, and that is note my point. Over the pulpit women are held in high esteem, but when it comes to actions within the Church we are second class members, maybe even less.
My husband is currently serving as a bishop and that hasn't been my experience.
@@jenniferharned6484who told you you were naked?
LDS isn’t Christian by any means. But which one is the correct one to follow, if any?
I'm lds, i believe in christ.
The way to realy know what is true is to ask God.
If we are not christian its ok with us .as long as we love God and do good to others.
What makes LDS no Christian?
@@dallindickinson9363 Millions of people ask God which church is the correct one to follow and they get a wide variety of answers. There is something like 35,000+ Christian sects in the world and that number grows constantly. They all think they are right. I'm Catholic and I freely admit that I believe the Catholic Church is the church Christ founded on this Earth. However, it's also possible that no church is really "right", and that God allows us all to take our own path to him.
Here are some other beliefs Mormons have about Jesus Christ:
Spirit child
Mormons believe that Jesus was a spirit child of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother before being born.
Brother of Lucifer
Mormons believe that Jesus was the brother of Lucifer, and that he proposed a better plan of redemption, earning him the title of Messiah.
Atonement
Mormons believe that Jesus's atoning sacrifice in the garden filled the gap in humanity's needs, and that his crucifixion was a sin offering that resulted in his resurrection.
Immortality
Mormons believe that Christ's atonement will secure immortality for almost everyone, whether or not they repent and believe.
Mormons consider Jesus Christ to be the central figure of their religion, which they see as Christ's Church restored with its original authority. However, Mormons have different beliefs about Jesus than historic Christians, and they don't agree with some canonical teachings, such as those about hell, the cross, and the Trinity.
Jeff!! Please teach the Mormons about Gods Grace and love and the gift of free agency.
Mormons will think they know and understand it but most do not. We have to obey we made covenants at 8 then we had to make covenants in the temple before we go on a mission, (we didn't have a choice & we can't talk about it without being disciplined or excommunicated) we have to wear garments to keep us modest and remind us to obey. (secret..no one likes wearing them) Our bishop has a spiritual pitch fork to push us into repentance. As kids we had early morning seminary each day not to mention daily prays and scripture study... talk about OVERKILL!! We never truly had a choice. I wish I could take the "cult" out of the church. I believe in Jospeh Smith and the Book of Mormon, it's just our leader's love to CONTROL EVERYTHING!! Please help them!
I’m 66, a lifelong member, and my LDS membership is so deeply sacred! Tears fill my eyes as I count my blessings in deep gratitude for being so very lucky compared to those who live without the knowledge and comfort afforded by my membership in this beautiful religion. I feel each day, an expectation from the Lord to do my best, serve and magnify my own callings because of these precious blessings. I grew up in a very liberal city, with few members, but those members, especially my bishops were rock solid examples of being like Jesus Christ. I was given vital, timely, inspired advice from each of these Bishops, and I honor them for being true to this holy priesthood calling.