WARNING: Hardcore Tech Content Ahead! In this video we are taking a closer look at Flex Fuel sensors. Topics covered are: what flex fuel sensors are, how they work, when you might need one and how to install and set one up on a Haltech ECU. The first part of the video covers the basics of Flex Fuel and its application, the second part includes a Step-by-Step Guide for setting up a Flex Fuel Sensor in the Haltech ESP software. Enjoy!
Another awesome video... I'm trying to learn more about flexi fuel....get my Brumby back next week running on corn juice.... Absolutely no regrets going with haltech...💪🌽👍
Hey guys. Currently doing a reasonably decent fuel setup on my rb26 tied in with you’re elite 2500. I use the car for some spirited road driving on the occasional weekend tied in with some track work. my initial plan was to run a flex setup, however after talking to a couple of workshops and doing some research im feeling slightly hesitant due the fact ethanol is quite hydroscopic and the sensor actually measures density rather than ethanol content itself. ( please correct me if I’m wrong here) thus meaning any water found in the fuel will inturn register as a very high ethanol content, ecu adjusts parametres to suit etc etc ends up being a crazy rich fuel map with worst case washed bores. Obviously the whole idea of the sensor is to have the convenience, so buying drums of it for the consistency and peace of mind would work but it completely defeats the purpose of it being able to fill at ya local servo. Not to mention drums are stupid expensive. Obviously having this luxury of multiple fuels is great for daily/weekend work but my mechanical mind sais the risk is just not worth it. What still leaves me scratching my head is to how a fair few people run flex and dont seem to have problems with them. Is this because they arnt being driven hard enough to cause damage? ( doubt it ) I can only see a few options for myself here: 1: dedicated e85, and carry jerrys in the boot for decent drives 😞 2: run the flex fuel setup and keep a ethanol testing kit and check the content before filling at the servo. 3: dedicated 98 it’s convenient but gay 😂 4: a seperate map for each fuel, run the tank almost empty, fill up full and stay off wot for a bit to flush the lines and filters and don’t forget to change maps when u do fill up. 5: I do have an aem wideband fitted, am I able to intergrate that into the elite and setup engine protection thresholds via afr’s to alleviate a bad batch of fuel if it does get a drink of water? I feel this is probably the simplest option. Am i totally missing something obvious here?? Cheers lads, love the vids, keep em coming 👍👌
How about a water filter ? They are a must have in diesels.. Of course water and ethanol mix .. water and diesel do not mix.. Water is heavier and goes to the bottom of the tank ..
jiggydrift I have very little to add other than it is actually hygroscopic not ‘hydroscopic’. That and store your car with minimal fuel and refil before use. Maybe you’re overthinking it 🤔
Speaking from my experience you are reading way to much into this. I've been running e85 since 06' and flex since 11'/12' never experienced readings that where not known conditions (like having 1/4 tank of e85 and filling up on gasoline) or high boost WOT percentage drops (there is a effective work around to "latch" the last known "good" value for this). To help with this I have an ethanol content gauge on the dash and check it before and after fill ups to avoid any doubts (if you know the size of your tank and how much fuel you added you can do some quick math to approximate what your reading should be). On a safe street tune the amount of boost and timing you can run is about the same from e70-e85. It isn't until you get below that area you need to make larger changes...just don't get greedy with timing/boost until you're on the good stuff. That said, if you listen to the video you can further compensate for any fuel error in the correction table by simply not changing the timing/boost until "safe levels" of Ethanol are reached and like you mentioned you have a dedicated WBO2 as a "fail safe" of sorts. If you are still apprehensive about trusting a flex sensor try this. Install the sensor and only use it for data logging. Set your maps for a single fuel and drive around filling up from all your local stations and log the data. If you see the usual data points with no strays and the calculations line up you can rest assure any erroneous reading you get will be a true contamination issue. In my experience sensor placement, line size and proper setup makes more difference than anything else. Hope you try it out, Cheers.
Good information, I'm getting my build ready and attempting to get the elite functions and wiring organized and didn't realize the ethanol sensor also had temperature. I just corrected that and no doubt will have many other details to correct. Good thing the pins are simple to swap on the connectors.
FYI in Australia ethanol is made from sugar cane not corn and all of it is refined by Manildra Co so if you by e85 from Mobil or e10 at BP the ethanol is brought from Manildra Co
I only have a PS500, a NA car, regular pump fuel. But geez i luv this stuff. i don't understand all of it. But it just makes me want an Elite 750 on E85...Why???? possibilities.
Hi Matt , is the 6 degrees you used as an example of ignition timing increase for the flex fuel table set in stone as 6 degrees ? or purely for example?
I really appreciate this brief introduction to the Haltech software. I have a question after watching this video: Does the Elite (and/or other Haltech controllers) monitor and compensate for knock? If your website has this info, please provide a link. Thank you.
My 2011 Jeep does not seem to have that sensor. Does it use the oxygen sensors to detect the ethanol %? E85 seems to have 105 octane around here to. Need the change the ignition timing too??
Fuel Composition tables being activated on Elite's is likely a common issue because your help file and the quick description window on the bottom left of the screen lead you into 2 different directions.. It confused me as well ( i came from a Pro Plug N Play ecu) so i figured it was the same.
So do u need to re tune when u change fuels etc what if it was tuned for e85 then used a 3rd of the tank an put 98 will it pick an adjust itself or will it need to be tuned again ?
So if I wanted to go flex fuel on my g37 I could buy that haltech flex fuel sensor and if I upgrade my fuel injectors and fuel pump and ignition coils I should be able to run e85 and 91 no problem?
Question: Can it be used as a preemptive measure against poor fuel (rich on ethanol instead of gasoline)? Simply to be there, to on-the-go analyze and alter fuel mixture, without actually retuning it manually?
Can you please do power gain on a NA motor with e85. Also can you talk about e85 using 95 and ethanol as well as 102 and ethanol if that makes any difference. For example making your e85 using 15% race fuel and pure ethanol vs 85 using pump fuel and pure ethanol please
I'm having some issues with what I believe are cause by change in fuel temp. I recently moved from Okinawa Japan to the far north in Aomori Japan and the temps are greatly cooler, but on the same elevation. I have noticed that my average AFR is quite a bit richer on average. I purchased a flex fuel sensor to take advantage of the temp sensor corrections built in. I was wonder if you have any educational info on the effects of fuel temp on fueling? Or, if you have any other thoughts as to why im seeing this issue.
Is there a way I can display Ethanol % on my IC7? I am running the unit as a standalone mode. I have wired all the free leads, I purchased oil, fuel and temperature sensors. I am really happy with it but my ecu and ic7 are not compatible yet.
Asking because I suspect ethanol is being blended with my local pump fuel and there's no labeling or avaliable documentation( I live on a small island) my high pressure rated gasoline hose deteriorates with cracks unusually quickly and fuel mileage varies between pump brands. Thoughts?
@@Ricerguy test your fuel for water contamination, with Gasola water detection paste. Ethanol blended fuels are hydroscopic (they absorb moisture from the atmosphere easily) and can rust injectors, ect. If your vehicle was built before the year 1995 then it's very likely the fuel system wasn't designed with ethanol compatible components. Fuel hoses, pumps and seals will melt or deteriorate in any amount of ethanol and plug things up if they aren't rated for ethanol. E10 would only affect your tune if you're set at a very lean AFR and were tuned on ethanol free fuel to begin with. Otherwise E10 v.s. pure gasoline won't cause noticeable, if any difference at all in peformance. An E10 fuel blend's only purpose is to keep the cost of fuel down. But the more ethanol in the fuel, the more fuel is needed at WOT. Every 1% of ethanol will only require a 0.353% increase in fuel demand. So if you actually have 10% ethonal in your 91oct gasoline, then you'll only need 3.53% more fuel at WOT. That's a negligible difference unless like i said before, you're tuned with a very-very lean AFR to begin with. 11 AFR at WOT is a safe street tune for 91oct at sea level. At sea level, you really should be running 93 octane fuel and a 11.5-12 AFR @ WOT. Blended fuels have essentially the same if not higher anti-knock index then pure but they're more corrosive to older style fuel systems. It'd be a good investment to buy a cheap ethanol fuel tester, the kind that you mix water with the fuel to see the ethanol content. Cheers!
You can download the software from the Haltech website. www.haltech.com/downloads/software Keep in mind you need a Haltech ECU to run a Haltech software.
What would happen if you had a 'dead head ' fuel system where the pump, filter, regulator, Flex Fuel sensor and return line were all at the tank and there is no return line from the engine. If you had a near empty tank of petrol and you then filled up with E85, on start up the fresh fill of E85 would be detected but there would still be straight petrol in the fuel lines right up to the fuel rail, would this cause a problem ?
There will just be lag time as the gasoline gets used up in the line. Many run flex fuel on the supply on return less fuel systems. I'm doing so. You would just never get into boost until you see you are burning your recently added e85
Last Time I looked at e85 and how it's made it's far more costly to produce it then petroleum, vehicles I've owned flex fuel,ran like crap on e85,and got substantialy less m.p.g.besides the fact I had to drive 20 miles to the only known gas station
Matt is not correct. You want want it on the return line so you are measuring what fuel content is actually passing through the injector rail not what is passing through the supply line as when you add e85 to the tank it's mixed and it takes a while for the majority content to make its way through the engine and and back to the tank. You only install it on the feed line when you have a returnless system.
Why is it these sensors are always put on the return line? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be on feed side to read the parentage going into the motor?
Because being on the return line tells you what fuel is actually being burned by the engine. If you had it on the supply you will be measuring what is passing through it and not exactly what the engine is using.
How to maintain and clean a Flex-Fuel sensor? What's the output values of the sensors 12v input and why? How to assure the sensors ethanol values are correct? How to calibrate the sensors values? Why do you guys sound like that?
WARNING: Hardcore Tech Content Ahead!
In this video we are taking a closer look at Flex Fuel sensors. Topics covered are: what flex fuel sensors are, how they work, when you might need one and how to install and set one up on a Haltech ECU. The first part of the video covers the basics of Flex Fuel and its application, the second part includes a Step-by-Step Guide for setting up a Flex Fuel Sensor in the Haltech ESP software.
Enjoy!
I liked that last little PSA on the double correction.
Guh
So can I please get my fucking money .ba k asshole. Youareassb
He
U
Wwll thwn
Why is your ethanol sensor a GM sensor with a haltech sticker on it and a $150 price increase?
It's so epic to see an Aussie company right up there in terms of expertise & knowledge. Yeah lads!
quite the contrast from that emu incident
@@SoulTouchMusic93 We shall not speak of this day.. Lets pretend it never existed
Awesome video. Easy to understand even for an amateur like myself!
ooh yeah gimme that high-octane corn syrup... great vid as always, detailed but clear and easy to follow
Nice explanation......I'll get one for my Tesla
Hey @Martin Smith do you run your Tesla on Coal or Nuclear ????
Underrated
@@mikeskidmore6754 nah brah he runs it on ego.
You might want a lgbtg flag also
Thanks Matt, Very in depth video, Keep em comin!!
Hardcore tech indeed! But, it's so good of you guys to put this out there!
don't forget to enable the pullup! this had me for a couple of days...
Another awesome video... I'm trying to learn more about flexi fuel....get my Brumby back next week running on corn juice.... Absolutely no regrets going with haltech...💪🌽👍
Another great video to learn from, Thanks Matt
I love Matt's videos.
Hey guys.
Currently doing a reasonably decent fuel setup on my rb26 tied in with you’re elite 2500. I use the car for some spirited road driving on the occasional weekend tied in with some track work.
my initial plan was to run a flex setup, however after talking to a couple of workshops and doing some research im feeling slightly hesitant due the fact ethanol is quite hydroscopic and the sensor actually measures density rather than ethanol content itself. ( please correct me if I’m wrong here) thus meaning any water found in the fuel will inturn register as a very high ethanol content, ecu adjusts parametres to suit etc etc ends up being a crazy rich fuel map with worst case washed bores. Obviously the whole idea of the sensor is to have the convenience, so buying drums of it for the consistency and peace of mind would work but it completely defeats the purpose of it being able to fill at ya local servo. Not to mention drums are stupid expensive.
Obviously having this luxury of multiple fuels is great for daily/weekend work but my mechanical mind sais the risk is just not worth it.
What still leaves me scratching my head is to how a fair few people run flex and dont seem to have problems with them. Is this because they arnt being driven hard enough to cause damage? ( doubt it ) I can only see a few options for myself here:
1: dedicated e85, and carry jerrys in the boot for decent drives 😞
2: run the flex fuel setup and keep a ethanol testing kit and check the content before filling at the servo.
3: dedicated 98 it’s convenient but gay 😂
4: a seperate map for each fuel, run the tank almost empty, fill up full and stay off wot for a bit to flush the lines and filters and don’t forget to change maps when u do fill up.
5: I do have an aem wideband fitted, am I able to intergrate that into the elite and setup engine protection thresholds via afr’s to alleviate a bad batch of fuel if it does get a drink of water? I feel this is probably the simplest option.
Am i totally missing something obvious here??
Cheers lads, love the vids, keep em coming 👍👌
How about a water filter ? They are a must have in diesels.. Of course water and ethanol mix .. water and diesel do not mix.. Water is heavier and goes to the bottom of the tank ..
jiggydrift I have very little to add other than it is actually hygroscopic not ‘hydroscopic’. That and store your car with minimal fuel and refil before use. Maybe you’re overthinking it 🤔
I'd like to hear what Haltech have to say about this issue
Speaking from my experience you are reading way to much into this. I've been running e85 since 06' and flex since 11'/12' never experienced readings that where not known conditions (like having 1/4 tank of e85 and filling up on gasoline) or high boost WOT percentage drops (there is a effective work around to "latch" the last known "good" value for this). To help with this I have an ethanol content gauge on the dash and check it before and after fill ups to avoid any doubts (if you know the size of your tank and how much fuel you added you can do some quick math to approximate what your reading should be). On a safe street tune the amount of boost and timing you can run is about the same from e70-e85. It isn't until you get below that area you need to make larger changes...just don't get greedy with timing/boost until you're on the good stuff. That said, if you listen to the video you can further compensate for any fuel error in the correction table by simply not changing the timing/boost until "safe levels" of Ethanol are reached and like you mentioned you have a dedicated WBO2 as a "fail safe" of sorts.
If you are still apprehensive about trusting a flex sensor try this. Install the sensor and only use it for data logging. Set your maps for a single fuel and drive around filling up from all your local stations and log the data. If you see the usual data points with no strays and the calculations line up you can rest assure any erroneous reading you get will be a true contamination issue. In my experience sensor placement, line size and proper setup makes more difference than anything else. Hope you try it out, Cheers.
Love This, Keep these up Haltech
Nice to see this series again :)
Good information, I'm getting my build ready and attempting to get the elite functions and wiring organized and didn't realize the ethanol sensor also had temperature. I just corrected that and no doubt will have many other details to correct. Good thing the pins are simple to swap on the connectors.
Nicely explained Ethanol side of the Flex.. But what about the temperature side of adjustments?
Much Obliged Sir.
FYI in Australia ethanol is made from sugar cane not corn and all of it is refined by Manildra Co so if you by e85 from Mobil or e10 at BP the ethanol is brought from Manildra Co
^^ TIS TRUE!
Great explanation
soo can you run a 2 stroke (be it pre mixed or letting the engine mix) run on e85? and still have benefits?
I've ran a two stroke on e85 before premixed also.
I only have a PS500, a NA car, regular pump fuel. But geez i luv this stuff. i don't understand all of it. But it just makes me want an Elite 750 on E85...Why???? possibilities.
Hi Matt , is the 6 degrees you used as an example of ignition timing increase for the flex fuel table set in stone as 6 degrees ? or purely for example?
I really appreciate this brief introduction to the Haltech software. I have a question after watching this video: Does the Elite (and/or other Haltech controllers) monitor and compensate for knock? If your website has this info, please provide a link. Thank you.
Here you go! ua-cam.com/video/jUUPcNPGm3k/v-deo.html :)
My 2011 Jeep does not seem to have that sensor. Does it use the oxygen sensors to detect the ethanol %? E85 seems to have 105 octane around here to. Need the change the ignition timing too??
Fuel Composition tables being activated on Elite's is likely a common issue because your help file and the quick description window on the bottom left of the screen lead you into 2 different directions.. It confused me as well ( i came from a Pro Plug N Play ecu) so i figured it was the same.
Hello on the HT-051100 ecu
Platinum Sport Plug-in GM, if I want to put the flex fuel there is the "signal" output on the ecu? thank you
And if you do not run a fuel return line, is the flex fuel sensor ok in the fuel delivery line?
So do u need to re tune when u change fuels etc what if it was tuned for e85 then used a 3rd of the tank an put 98 will it pick an adjust itself or will it need to be tuned again ?
So if I wanted to go flex fuel on my g37 I could buy that haltech flex fuel sensor and if I upgrade my fuel injectors and fuel pump and ignition coils I should be able to run e85 and 91 no problem?
YAY!! 999 likes. I tipped it over to 1K... I feel so special.
Thanks:)
Can a Flex Fuel Sensor be used for Gasoline to show the Quality of Gasoline in the tank
Like In a Situation where The Car runs solely on Gasoline.
No, it only measures ethanol content.
Question:
Can it be used as a preemptive measure against poor fuel (rich on ethanol instead of gasoline)?
Simply to be there, to on-the-go analyze and alter fuel mixture, without actually retuning it manually?
Is there any change in HP when your getting 83.3% pump E85 vs 75.2% pump E85. ???
What happens if you mount the sensor before the fuel pressure regulator?
Can you please do power gain on a NA motor with e85. Also can you talk about e85 using 95 and ethanol as well as 102 and ethanol if that makes any difference. For example making your e85 using 15% race fuel and pure ethanol vs 85 using pump fuel and pure ethanol please
I’m stock on a Camaro ss 2014 do i need the kit or just the sensor?
I'm having some issues with what I believe are cause by change in fuel temp. I recently moved from Okinawa Japan to the far north in Aomori Japan and the temps are greatly cooler, but on the same elevation. I have noticed that my average AFR is quite a bit richer on average. I purchased a flex fuel sensor to take advantage of the temp sensor corrections built in. I was wonder if you have any educational info on the effects of fuel temp on fueling? Or, if you have any other thoughts as to why im seeing this issue.
Is there a way I can display Ethanol % on my IC7? I am running the unit as a standalone mode. I have wired all the free leads, I purchased oil, fuel and temperature sensors. I am really happy with it but my ecu and ic7 are not compatible yet.
Shoot a message to our support team via www.haltech.com/contact-us
Is isopropyl alcohol less corrosive than ethanol, and does it eat away at fuel pump housing plastics like ethanol?
Top work mate, gotta get me an elite oneday
Can Cobb ethanol sensor be used on Haltech elite 2500?
👌
Awesome video, could e10/91 octane with some small amount of ethanol be affecting my gasoline tune?
Asking because I suspect ethanol is being blended with my local pump fuel and there's no labeling or avaliable documentation( I live on a small island) my high pressure rated gasoline hose deteriorates with cracks unusually quickly and fuel mileage varies between pump brands. Thoughts?
@@Ricerguy test your fuel for water contamination, with Gasola water detection paste.
Ethanol blended fuels are hydroscopic (they absorb moisture from the atmosphere easily) and can rust injectors, ect.
If your vehicle was built before the year 1995 then it's very likely the fuel system wasn't designed with ethanol compatible components.
Fuel hoses, pumps and seals will melt or deteriorate in any amount of ethanol and plug things up if they aren't rated for ethanol.
E10 would only affect your tune if you're set at a very lean AFR and were tuned on ethanol free fuel to begin with.
Otherwise E10 v.s. pure gasoline won't cause noticeable, if any difference at all in peformance.
An E10 fuel blend's only purpose is to keep the cost of fuel down. But the more ethanol in the fuel, the more fuel is needed at WOT.
Every 1% of ethanol will only require a 0.353% increase in fuel demand. So if you actually have 10% ethonal in your 91oct gasoline, then you'll only need 3.53% more fuel at WOT. That's a negligible difference unless like i said before, you're tuned with a very-very lean AFR to begin with.
11 AFR at WOT is a safe street tune for 91oct at sea level.
At sea level, you really should be running 93 octane fuel and a 11.5-12 AFR @ WOT.
Blended fuels have essentially the same if not higher anti-knock index then pure but they're more corrosive to older style fuel systems.
It'd be a good investment to buy a cheap ethanol fuel tester, the kind that you mix water with the fuel to see the ethanol content.
Cheers!
Are these setup instructions the same while using a GM flex fuel sensor other than a Haltech sensor
Yes, the Haltech sensor is a gm(continental) brand.
Can I run a flex fuel sensor with the platinum gm sport?
Would this read the octane number of the gasoline? 91, 95, and 98 or any mixture in between.
Nope
Can u run the flex fuel sensor somewhere in the fuel line for a more accurate reading to the ecu???? @Haltech
This video explains the most accurate flex fuel placements: ua-cam.com/video/KQcbaMIAjcs/v-deo.html
ok how can I re program my engine at home and install a flexfuel box? Where can I get this software ?
You can download the software from the Haltech website. www.haltech.com/downloads/software
Keep in mind you need a Haltech ECU to run a Haltech software.
What would happen if you had a 'dead head ' fuel system where the pump, filter, regulator, Flex Fuel sensor and return line were all at the tank and there is no return line from the engine. If you had a near empty tank of petrol and you then filled up with E85, on start up the fresh fill of E85 would be detected but there would still be straight petrol in the fuel lines right up to the fuel rail, would this cause a problem ?
There will just be lag time as the gasoline gets used up in the line. Many run flex fuel on the supply on return less fuel systems. I'm doing so. You would just never get into boost until you see you are burning your recently added e85
How to get this tune from haltech
What is the difference between the Haltech sensor VS the GM Censor ? My guess is the Haltech would have more flexability ????
Same sensors, just new versions.
Last Time I looked at e85 and how it's made it's far more costly to produce it then petroleum, vehicles I've owned flex fuel,ran like crap on e85,and got substantialy less m.p.g.besides the fact I had to drive 20 miles to the only known gas station
Still the best budget fuel for lots of boost or lots of compression
So I can put 93 octane and then if I wanted to I can put e85
Why is Flex fuel sensor installed in the return line??
Where can I get the hardware
6:11 testy pop haha
😂😂😂
Why isn't the sensor installed in the fuel supply line instead of the return? Is there a reason why it shouldn't be?
@Matt Wright Ah that makes sense, thankyou
Matt is not correct. You want want it on the return line so you are measuring what fuel content is actually passing through the injector rail not what is passing through the supply line as when you add e85 to the tank it's mixed and it takes a while for the majority content to make its way through the engine and and back to the tank. You only install it on the feed line when you have a returnless system.
Why is it these sensors are always put on the return line? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be on feed side to read the parentage going into the motor?
Flow, look how small the sensor pipes are.
@@onewheeler69 looks like 5/16 od? Isn't that typical for fuel rails?
Mines on the feed side :)
Because being on the return line tells you what fuel is actually being burned by the engine. If you had it on the supply you will be measuring what is passing through it and not exactly what the engine is using.
So you can do it to any car
When does the new ECU come out? The Elite is becoming old technology.
The NEXUS R5 is already out :p
666 like!
Let's raise some hell-tech
What's wrong with the buttons on his shirt, causing weird creases is it done up in the wrong hole, big weekend mate
Microphone attached to his shirt
Not made from Corn in Australia
Don't you mean petroleum based fuels or r you just saying gasoline to keep the American's happy
You speak of keeping people happy, yet you’re the one that’s commenting here being butthurt about a difference of two words that mean the same thing
How to maintain and clean a Flex-Fuel sensor?
What's the output values of the sensors 12v input and why?
How to assure the sensors ethanol values are correct?
How to calibrate the sensors values?
Why do you guys sound like that?
Music is annoying
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