Please post a follow up (video or comment) to share your progress to resolve your low back pain symptoms through the quadruped exercises and other techniques Shirley shared. Thanks Tim! Great interview
This was a phenomenal conversation. I've dedicated my life to studying the body (occupational therapist and Rolfer) and this conversation with Dr. Sahrmann was incredibly enlightening with her observations and explanations. For example, when she said Tim actually had too much kyphosis rather than hyper-lordosis when standing. Really mind blowing how she's able to conceptualize and apply immediately her vast knowledge. Plus I loved her laughter. And Tim is so thoughtful to his audience, he constantly wants to explain anything they are doing for the viewers who won't see the video. He's so knowledgeable and humble in his sharing. Excellent job. Thank you. I just purchased her latest book and I cannot wait to read it.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:13 🎙️ Tim Ferriss introduces his guest, Shirley A. Sahrmann, a renowned figure in the physical therapy world. 00:42 👩🦳 Shirley is highlighted for her accomplishments, including her influential books in the field of movement science and physical therapy. 02:30 🔄 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann mentions that when the hip flexors are stiff, it can cause the pelvis to rotate during walking, potentially leading to symptoms. 22:44 🚶♂️ Tim Ferriss describes certain postures and movements that alleviate or exacerbate his lower back pain. 23:13 👣 Dr. Sahrmann suggests a test involving foot placement to assess if any asymmetry plays a role in symptoms. 24:11 💆♂️ Tim Ferriss discusses the tightness in his TFL and piriformis muscles and their potential role in his pain. 25:07 📏 Dr. Sahrmann speculates that if Tim's right iliac crest is higher than the left, it could be contributing to his issues. 26:06 🐕 Dr. Sahrmann suggests exercises in the quadruped (hands and knees) position to help with asymmetry. 27:33 🏃♂️ Dr. Sahrmann introduces the concept of "movement systems syndromes" and emphasizes the importance of proper movement. 28:31 🪑 Tim Ferriss discusses the discomfort he feels when sitting on a flat-back chair and how it impacts his back. Dr. Shirley Sahrmann suggests trying to raise arms overhead to see if it alleviates symptoms. 41:23 🚶♂️ Dr. Sahrmann emphasizes the importance of movement in areas other than the back, referencing the body's tendency to followthe path of least resistance. 41:53 🔄 Tim highlights the importance of recognizing and altering movement patterns that lead to pain. 42:51 🧘 Tim shares that specific movements in Pilates classes seem to comfort his back, and Dr. Sahrmann probes deeper into these movements. 43:50 💪 Dr. Sahrmann discusses the impact of certain workouts on back health, emphasizing the importance of proper muscle engagement and movement. 45:44 🦵 Dr. Sahrmann suggests an exercise technique, sliding the heel while maintaining pelvis position, to alleviate back 01:01:48 💪 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann emphasizes starting exercises at the appropriate level for an individual's current capabilities. She suggests an exercise where one faces a wall and slides their arms up, maintaining shoulder height. 01:02:45 📏 Proper shoulder positioning: The shoulders should be positioned such that the clavicle angles up slightly. It's important to maintain proper shoulder position throughout the day. 01:03:42 🤔 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the controversy around stretching. She believes that true muscle shortness is rare, and issues often arise from relative stiffness in opposing muscle groups. 01:06:24 🚴 Dr. Sahrmann uses the example of a cyclist to explain that activity habits can cause muscle shortness. It's crucial to understand the root cause of muscle imbalances. 01:07:49 🚶♂️ Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses her interest in understanding movement patterns, especially in musculoskeletal patients. 01:20:52 😂 Dr. Sahrmann shares a humorous story about wearing her pants backward due to changes in her body alignment. 01:22:20 🚴♀️ The importance of postural alignment and its effects on clothing and overall appearance. 01:23:16 🎳 Dr. Sahrmann mentions how body alignment changes affected her bowling grip. 01:24:38 👟 Insights into how correcting posture changed the way her shoes wore out. 01:25:33 🏋️♂️ The importance of targeted exercises, like the quadruped movement, to improve postural alignment. 01:26:59 🔄 Discussion on hip rotation exercises to improve core strength and alignment. 01:28:26 🙆♂️ Emphasis on exercises to reduce kyphosis (rounded upper back) and maintain spinal health. 01:31:07 🦵 Understanding the role of the tensor fasciae latae muscle in movement and potential issues. 01:33:24 💪 Dr. Sahrmann's daily exercise routine, emphasizing the importance of mobility and strength. 01:36:31 🦵 Discussion on femoral retroversion and its implications for hip and leg positioning. 01:39:18 🦴 The interconnectedness of body parts and the importance of understanding the body as a whole system. 01:40:37 🚶 If you have a swayed back, it affects how you walk, potentially leading to overuse of certain muscles. 01:41:32 🚀 To improve posture, consider pushing with the ball of your foot during walking to activate the gluteals more. 01:42:00 🧒 Tim Ferriss has had kyphosis since childhood, and foam rolling and other methods haven't fully addressed it. 01:42:30 📚 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann introduces the possibility of Tim having Scheuermann's disease, which affects the thoracic spine. 01:42:58 🔍 While Tim's condition may not be reversible, the focus should be on preventing it from worsening. 01:43:54 📖 Dr. Sahrmann has written influential books on movement diagnoses and treatment. 01:44:51 💡 There is a need for more individualized exercise recommendations and recognizing that movement is complex. 01:46:14 🧓 Early intervention Made with HARPA AI
This was a fantastically helpful conversation and we really need to work on movement!! Can you follow up with either this amazing woman or another therapist on how we should walk? There are so many problems from text neck to muscular imbalances that could be helped by simply walking (and perhaps standing and using our devices) better. Thank you so much Tim and Shirley!!
It’s taken me years of back pain to finally nail it, it was all in my glutes and hips not my back. With a mix of mobility work and the Feldenkrais method I’m feeling better than ever, obviously it’s going to take years of daily work to fix years of problems but I’ve now turned a corner.
I absolutely loved this interview! Shirley is seriously incredible and such an inspiration. I'm really curious to learn more about her exercises in detail. Thanks a bunch for sharing this interview, Tim!
I am looking forward to part 2 of this eye-opening conversation! Wouldn’t it be great if, when you went to a doctor with low back pain, they would say, “I think we need to rule out whether or not the way you use your body every day is contributing to your problem? A PT could screen for that before we do other expensive things.” Dr. Sahrmann has created the road map, through the movement system, for figuring this out. Good luck, Tim, in following through on Shirley’s advice!
Thank you Tim for this amazing interview with Shirley Sahrmann, I absolutely enjoyed listening and watching. And as a physical therapist, Shirley has been my inspiration and I personally subscribe and use her movement impairment diagnostic approach in my practice with tremendous success. Thank you for spreading the word of the benefits of Shirley's diagnostic and treatment approach that is functional and easy applicable to every day life! Loved this conversation!
Brought to you by AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement drinkag1.com/tim LMNT electrolyte supplement drinklmnt.com/tim and Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating eightsleep.com/Tim NOTE: 03:14 For avoidance of doubt, the iliac crest (the bone) is described but the iliacus (muscle) is highlighted in red. Learn more about the iliac crest: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliac_crest
This should be a fantastic interview. I was supposed to be doing a triathlon this morning except it got rescheduled hours before the starting time. So, seeing this interview pop-up brightens the day. I look forward to listening to this instead after a session of jump rope and calisthenics. Thanks Tim.
@timferris I have the exact same lower back pain, on the exact same spot. And I have the same spinal column thoracic kyphosis as you have. After several medical exams the doctors determined I have SI joint mechanical dysfunction. Therefore I'm a candidate for SI joint fusion surgery. I hope you get better soon and you don't go down the path of excruciating pain I'm in.
this was amazing! and I was extra excited bc what Tim described is exactly what I've struggled with for years. after going Many many professionals and seemingly like no one really knew how to help me, iv'e had to figure out so much on my own and its been getting better. this was great to listen to and so helpful.
10 Stars ! She's a rock star. As an occupational therapist and Pilates instructor I am always studying movement and movement related pathology. Plus I never want to be the source of contributing to someone's pain. The whole example of how a hip bridge is probably not a great exercise for Tim only confirms that an exercise prescription must work for the body in front of you and not necessarily ideal for the population at large. I would love to hear more about her therapeutic recommendations for reducing the thoracic kyphosis. I understand if it is Scherman's Disease the goal is simply to not let it progress, however in our tech laden world the forward head and rounded shoulders is all too common. She is so practical. Love that she encourages intense exercise only because it increases her clientele! Keeping it simple does have its advantages. Thank you Tim for interviewing this Queen!
I don't have back issues...yet. I was just curious and found out that I would like to learn more about Shirley Sahrmann. She is awesome and an inspiring being. She has piercing beautiful blue eyes and wit to match. Thanks Tim for anatomy intro. I think an anatomy class in on my bucket list. A lot went over my head but I enjoyed the challenge.
Tim I think you might want to check out Foundation Training and get Eric Goodman and Jesse Salas on your podcast. As a PT I highly recommend this whole body approach to eliminating back pain.
What a joy to watch/listen to this conversation. Thank you so much to you both for sharing your time, knowledge, and conversational/interviewing skills, sprinkled with some unexpected humor! :) My favorite episode remains your Aisha Tyler interview, but this is _Shirley_ going to take a top spot in the rankings. If there's ever a chance to record or document her routine as well as proper execution of her recommendations to you, that'd be an incredibly helpful follow-up. I think I picked up on most of it, but it's a bit hard to know for sure without visual aids. Thank you again!
Tim, while not to take away from your pod cast with Dr. Shirley. You should see if you can get an interview with Dr. Stuart McGill, with your influence. He has done tremendous amount of work with the spine and changing how assessment are done. Very commonly when one does achieve such high level of understanding, as they follow the clues, come to the same conclusions.
With all due respect to Dr. Sahrmann, many of the beliefs expressed in this podcast are outdated and dogmatic. As a physical therapist myself, I fight many of these beliefs in my own patients and there is some evidence to suggest they may, in fact, be iatrogenically exacerbating pain experiences. Many of her claims have no evidence to support them. For others, there exists evidence that is in direct refutation. I would urge you, Tim, to give your platform to an evidence based physical therapist or other MSK clinician who is actively challenging dogmatic and outdated beliefs within the field such as Aaron Kubal, Sam Spinelli, Marc Surdyka, Adam Meakins, Greg Lehman, Peter O'Sullivan, Lormier Mosely, and many others not named herein that are truly pushing the needle forward and greatly influenced my perspective and practice as a physical therapist. Hopefully, I'll be on your show one day myself and I would be happy to discuss the errors of Dr. Sahrmanns' well-intentioned approach. Best wishes.
Great conversation, really! Learned a lot for myself as well 😊 The only thing I am not 100% sure about is the quadruped exercise - do I let my hip get into anterior tilt or keep it straight and only let my thoracic spine drop to the floor? Would love an answer on this! Thanks again!!!
I have chronic spine pain, three surgeries, one nerve ablation, numerous injections, fusion….and still in nearly unbearable pain. I have my first ketamine infusion next week, ptsd and major depression….I hope it will help!
Shirley is so amazing! She is what a PT should be and few are. I love the way she understands quickly any problems and how the entire body works together.
I completely agree! Shirley's engagement in the conversation, humor, and active presence for the person in front of her are outstanding character traits. This shows great care for Tim, and no doubt, anyone around her. Her cadence of speech and direct, yet loving, nature, remind me of my late Grandmother. She holds and embodies a rare combination of beautiful traits.
@tferriss you and your team did such an amazing job with the terminology description / visual aids at the beginning. What a delightful interview -- great interview as always, but this means the world to me to see this legend having the opportunity to share her wisdoms to so many intelligent listeners and viewers.
I understood everything because I've felt all what my body needs since I started taking long (2h) walks everyday on my way to work: lower back pain, shoulder pain, and breathing exercises to expand the whole thorax that lead to a better walking and standing posture. I'm 33 yo, 1.90 cm and after 8h of working in a restaurant, I can walk home for another hour without back pain, folks 🎉
Coming up with the 4-hour series with the thought of utmost efficiency in mind; then years later finding that efficiency in movement patterns will save, or even negate, time spent on rehabbing. 🤯 I will certainly be getting her book(s) and implementing her wisdom. Thanks for bringing her on Tim!
I was literally sending a voice note to my friend complaining about lower back issues 4 minutes before this was posted, if it was a targeted Ad I would have thought "My phone is listening", but it's organic content so the timing is a miracle
You’re educating and enlightening as always Tim. Stuart Mc Gill would probably go along with a lot this woman is pointing out to us. Exercises and everyday movements, overuse injury. Thanks Tim
Great conversation Tim and Shirley! Concepts such as relative stiffness (active and passive) and tensegrity, as well as whole body kinematics are poorly understood even by professionals in human movement science and physical therapy, not to mention medical practitioners. As we transition from analog to digital recording and more detailed analysis of human function and dysfunction, we will become better equipped to do justice to Shirley's systematic approach to motor control and functional anatomy. Tim, thanks for bringing these concepts to the attention of a larger audience, the majority of whom will have some musculoskeletal problem now or in the future, and a vested interest in analysing 'how the body moves' and not just 'what body parts are moving'. Good luck with re-organising the 'movement system' that defines your posture - so that your back is no longer painful.
Great job Tim asking questions and inquiring about clarifications of the movement system with Shirley. Dr’s diagnose. Shirley’s movement system explains the “why” behind the diagnosis. Hopefully some of her movement diagnoses make to the ICD-10 book the next time around. I have followed her for many years and always come away learning something new. A PT
This has blown my mind. You and I have verrry similar issues (I suspect I have an hypermobile SI joint according to my PT). It is debilitating often. It's funny that I was at the museum yesterday and was in so much pain and you had mentioned that exact example. 🤯 I thoroughly appreciated this apt conversation and will be sharing it with my doctor and PT.
Great conversation, with many interesting points. Rigidity of rib cage and thoracic spine is something I have been working on for some time. Also, she is very funny. :)
Wonderful. I found it all very helpful as I, although a lot older than Tim, share his problems except it’s on the other side. Also agree with the comments about how dynamic the TFL is. At one stage when my problems got really bad during lockdown I thought I was developing MND because of the extreme fasciculations on mild stimulus. I am a retired General Practitioner with an interest in MS issues. I agree totally that these problems need to be addressed at a younger age- I was told I had shortened flexors in my late 30s but no real solution was offered. With my interest in acupuncture and Alexander technique- which puts the correct ‘use’ of self at the centre- I eveolved my own treatment. However the exercises suggested are really helpful as I am finding it very difficult to reduce the tightness in the Ilio/psoas or strengthen my G medius. So a big thank you to you both.🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
0:38: 🎙 Tim Ferriss interviews Shirley A. Sahrmann, a legendary figure in the physical therapy world, about her influential work and expertise in movement science and physical therapy. 8:51: 📚 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses her book on movement impairment syndromes and its impact on physical therapy and diagnosing musculoskeletal problems. 18:41: 🤔 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the impact of asymmetry on spine alignment and the causes of lower back pain. 28:30: 🤔 The movement systems syndromes approach focuses on the importance of the movement system in overall health and well-being. 35:37: 🏋♂ The body follows the path of least resistance, so it's important to change movement patterns and breathing to avoid pathology. 43:12: 🔑 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the importance of proper alignment and motions in managing lower back pain. 51:21: :muscle: Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the assessment process for identifying movement-related symptoms and the importance of addressing structural variations. 1:00:55: 🗣 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the importance of maintaining muscle length and using the correct muscles during exercises. 1:09:53: 🤔 Tim Ferriss consults with Dr. Shirley Sahrmann about his posture and alignment issues. 1:17:02: 🤸 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann shares her self-care routine and the benefits of movement-focused approach. 1:25:38: 🏋 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann describes her daily exercise routine and stretches to improve flexibility and strengthen muscles. 1:34:01: 💡 The speaker discusses the problems associated with hip medial rotation and femoral retroversion, and how they can contribute to ACL tears and low back issues. 1:42:46: ✨ Tim Ferriss discusses his thoracic spine compression fracture with Dr. Shirley Sahrmann and learns about managing it and the importance of exercise. Recap by Tammy AI
Very interesting conversation, very interesting woman. Love her. I would really like to know how’s Tim’s back doing now? Any improvement since you started this conversation.
PRI will change your life!! And answer all of the questions you have here about all of the symptoms you described. I’m surprised I’m the first one saying this here!! I’m a PT I can do it with you for free on a zoom call if you’re up for it
Just listened! Another old-ish physical therapist here and have integrated this work my entire career! I only have one conflict with what she says…I don’t believe there are “good” and “bad” movements. This is not an opinion, but current pain science. As a yoga therapist, I like to dig even deeper to how and why the habitual movement patterns occur. Why is there stiffness? Why is there constant tension in a muscle? Muscles were meant to relax. I find the answer in the autonomic nervous system and brain with a way that pain is processed. I came to this after doing what Dr. Sarhmann does and for many, fixing or correcting did not relieve pain. Even for the most adherent patient. So don’t feel bad if you have been to PT and it didn’t work for you. You might need to investigate further and deeper. Also great to see her adapt to telehealth;). Many companies think that we older PTs cannot adapt to modern technology to provide excellent treatment.
This is the type of stuff that impresses lay people. Unfortunately she could not be more incorrect. Having worked in the field for 2 decades, reading her work a decade ago, being impressed at first, seeing first hand that it does not play out in the real world, then seeing mountains of research over the last decade disproving her views, and hearing her now she sounds very much like an old professor that cannot accept the truth, which is that her entire life's work has been proven to be inaccurate. I get it. It sounds right. But so much of what she is talking about has been shown to be not true. In countless studies. For years now. It is ok to have a foundational framework. In fact it is necessary. You just have to be able to let go of what is no longer useful. Man I hate being that guy on the internet, but every once in a while I guess we all are..... Oh and can I play the diagnosis roulette game too? Tim you have imaging showing some degeneration in the disc but also moderate facet arthritic change especially in the transitional segment which was never designed to function as a separate joint. Your lower facets are becoming weight bearing rather than motion guiding and are extension sensitive right now. Everything she gave you was relief/desensitization of lower lumbar compressive extension, including the standing with legs apart since it requires sacral counter notation
Beyond amazed at this conversation. Loved it. The NKT/AIM guys basically just go straight to getting movement pathways functioning. It's next level from Dr. Sahrmann's quadruped. *Neurokinetic therapy / Anatomy in Motion Since most of the guys are PTs, they can address the movements with prescriptions, too.
I have some experience with chronic pain. For me, getting out of pain starts witH SOFT treatment of the body. The melt method is a perfect example of this type of work, getting the body primed to change at all. Next for me is Qi Gong and Tai Chi along with breath work (breathing into the back and sides, feeling all of the diaphragms work (palate, diaphragm, pelvic floor, feet). Work in Feldenkreis, Gyrotonic, following Bonnie Bambridge Cohen, have all helped. I have three teachers that almost feel like witches around a cauldron, calling my body back to life. Sometimes they teach me something that makes no sense until the weekend, when my body falls into ease. Yoga with Tim (especially 2023’s 30 day challenge utilizes some of theses techniques - it is really worth doing for the breathing and alignment help). Pain is death as far as I’m concerned. I hope that you can use any of this on your path to living fully again
Tim, It's frustrating as heck to be in pain for nine months, and it can feel like insult to injury when you're told 30 different things by well-intentioned healthcare/fitness professionals with different ways of looking at the world. At a medical conference 20 (+) years ago an ortho told a joke: "How do you get 20 medical opinions as fast as possible? Ask 5 different doctors." Oftentimes when we're in the middle of dealing with "tissues with issues" and we haven't crossed the finish line, it's time to look from the 10,000 ft view. As they say, "this is not medical advice" and there is no substitute for sitting in the same room with a client with your ears, eyes, hands, and moving and grooving in real time. With those caveats, just some thoughts: 1. Oftentimes it's not one single thing that caused the pain, but rather several small to medium things that have exceeded the tolerance levels. For example, during the interview your R side pelvis hiked up when you stood with your legs abducted. Suggests R iliopsoas and adductor tissue restrictions on R, and possibly L foot-ankle joint/soft-tissue imbalances. Also suggests some R pelvis/SI imbalances (e.g., perhaps lack of post pelvic mobility, sacral stiffness, etc). Thoracic spine and ribs may also be restricted, with potential limitations in what Thomas Myers refers to as the "spiral lines." Perhaps addressing all of these leads to a de-escalation of the nervous system. It's trite, yet true: "The human body is a system of systems." 2. Speaking of de-escalation and the interdependence of systems: we talk about how "stress kills," but few of us really take the time to look under the hood and figure out what's been on our minds. Any stressors that have been small, yet never ending? Past traumas you're still working on? Friends/family dealing with life-threatening issues? Having several ways to talk thru, work thru, and unpack the emotional, mental, and spiritual loads on our minds can facilitate the "Atlas Shrugging" phenomenon. 3. You likely have a network of people with a variety of skills and talents. Lean into them. Temporarily it may be back to the "20 different medical opinions" frustration, yet keep digging at it until you find the totality of solutions that puts this in the rearview mirror. As I often tell my clients: "Motion is lotion, just don't poke the bear in the eye." Wishing you better health! Dr Denny @timferris
Thank you very much for sharing this amazing interview with my favorite teacher! I've attended Dr Sahrmann's multiple PT courses and was lucky enough to get her PT evaluation for myself multiple times as well. She is really wonderful and her knowledge of human body mechanics is outstanding!
Tim, I have exactly the same symptoms, and like you, have been playing sports and exercising for almost 50 decades... I have been figuring out the reasons for a year now, and this interview is invaluable. Your guest is phenomenal, a wealth of knowledge with a fantastic sense of humor. Thank you so much!
Good afternoon to you both Again amazing woman and shared work. Brilliant shared conversation. I had what might have been described or diagnosed as chronic back pain for many periods decades of my adult life. Even thinking of it as a symptom of being a nurse. The best relief of my symptoms and much more happened when I discovered, paid attention to and focused on. The Wisdom and practices of the Shaolin teachings and the like. Most grateful to all. Less lower back pain and stilll a nurse but that's a massively bigger and differential story. 💜
Tim, I'm a huge fan and am grateful for all you contribute to the world. I have been following your back pain issues via Twitter and the podcast. A loved one--late teen, very athletic and strong--had a year of lower back pain that wouldn't clear up--full diagnostics, spine surgeon review, multiple PTs, with full compliance in daily work, multiple body work specialists, TENS units, cryotherapy, heat, CBT for emotional/back issues, etc. What FINALLY worked: hydrodissection with a dextrous solution done by a chiropractor to dislodge entrapped nerves. Worked immediately! AND pain is still gone completely 5 months later--amid a very physical heavy weightlifting lifestyle. Spine surgeon said hydrodissection sounded like hogwash. Glad we ignored him!!!
Good Podcast! Definitions at start were great. Shirley is so knowledgeable and seems exceptional in many ways, however, she shares the same approach as most PTs, which is to simplify Tim's back pain and basically gives him a diagnosis/issue from little to no information at all! If it was that easy Tim would have gotten relief already from any of the multiple PTs he has been seeing, who btw are all giving Tim different programs and are all just as confident as Shirley that they can give him the answer to his chronic pain right after they first meet.
Listened to the audio version and then came to watch it here as well. I'm recovering from a broken foot, and the knock-on effect has been crippling low back/SI joint pain from overcompensating for a boot and being unable to walk properly. So much of what she said in diagnosing Tim is exactly my issue as well - now I have a simple set of exercises to try that I am hopeful will really help me. What a delightful person she is, too! Thanks for this fantastic and enlightening episode, Tim!
Recognizing my personal imapairments just listening to these two enlightened individuals, just brought tears to my eyes. The help I have been looking for was here, facing me! My heartfelt thanks to you both, I beseach you, KEEP DOING THE GOOD WORK, as long as you can possibly DO! In gratitude, Eleni
This is the third insude conversation that I have listened to today. Lol. The first was in a restaurant with a group of people talking in depth about food industry inspections. The second was a meeting on city traffic light installations and now this one. All great conversations. I will call this one "watching Tim get free low back advice..." 😂 JK Love the podcast n Thanks!
Great advices !! She is so smart and funny , love her, enjoyed this interview so much, going deep to your lower back issues . Fantastic , good luck with the implementing .
Great interview. The last disclosure Dr. Sahrman spoke really resonated with me. I work at a nursing home and I see the fragments of our “healthcare” system when it puts profit over people…
I just started listening and am all ears! But before deep diving, my lower back pain comes when I drink more than my body can handle - caffeine (it can be from green tea to if someone is sensitive to caffeine, found studies on the Internet pedia - search about this correlation). It also happens if my stomach is bloated or hasn't been emptied properly, if I ate more than the mid-dose of oxalate-rich foods: cacao/dark chocolate mainly, and sometimes from dairy. Keep in mind dietary choices when it comes to back pain, near the adrenals. OK. Enough rant, let's turn on Tim.
Brilliant podcast-information. I am a brand new fan of Dr. Sahrmann, this amazing modern elder with decades of hands on stunning wealth of expertrise-experience and knowledge. Thank you!!
can you consciously close your rib cage? also ankle and foot awareness. everything else was mentioned by her. if you've never experienced the activation of x muscle, then receiving verbal instruction is not always sufficient.
complete anatomy app from same vendor as the essential anatomy app can be installed for free. not sure if the relevant features can be accessed for free though
Such a great podcast. Is there any chance of a video with all the protocols mentioned being performed?
she's electric and has a hell of a sense of humor.
Imagine being that sharp, whitty and knowledgable at 80 plus. Very inspiring.
I think you were mistaken about illio psoas name
❤🔥
Tim can we please get a video of these poses/workouts please 🙏🏽
I want to be Shirley when I grow up. Or at least have friends like her. Never wrestled with a referee! Bwahaha!
Please post a follow up (video or comment) to share your progress to resolve your low back pain symptoms through the quadruped exercises and other techniques Shirley shared. Thanks Tim! Great interview
This was a phenomenal conversation. I've dedicated my life to studying the body (occupational therapist and Rolfer) and this conversation with Dr. Sahrmann was incredibly enlightening with her observations and explanations. For example, when she said Tim actually had too much kyphosis rather than hyper-lordosis when standing. Really mind blowing how she's able to conceptualize and apply immediately her vast knowledge. Plus I loved her laughter. And Tim is so thoughtful to his audience, he constantly wants to explain anything they are doing for the viewers who won't see the video. He's so knowledgeable and humble in his sharing. Excellent job. Thank you. I just purchased her latest book and I cannot wait to read it.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:13 🎙️ Tim Ferriss introduces his guest, Shirley A. Sahrmann, a renowned figure in the physical therapy world.
00:42 👩🦳 Shirley is highlighted for her accomplishments, including her influential books in the field of movement science and physical therapy.
02:30 🔄 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann mentions that when the hip flexors are stiff, it can cause the pelvis to rotate during walking, potentially leading to symptoms.
22:44 🚶♂️ Tim Ferriss describes certain postures and movements that alleviate or exacerbate his lower back pain.
23:13 👣 Dr. Sahrmann suggests a test involving foot placement to assess if any asymmetry plays a role in symptoms.
24:11 💆♂️ Tim Ferriss discusses the tightness in his TFL and piriformis muscles and their potential role in his pain.
25:07 📏 Dr. Sahrmann speculates that if Tim's right iliac crest is higher than the left, it could be contributing to his issues.
26:06 🐕 Dr. Sahrmann suggests exercises in the quadruped (hands and knees) position to help with asymmetry.
27:33 🏃♂️ Dr. Sahrmann introduces the concept of "movement systems syndromes" and emphasizes the importance of proper movement.
28:31 🪑 Tim Ferriss discusses the discomfort he feels when sitting on a flat-back chair and how it impacts his back. Dr. Shirley Sahrmann suggests trying to raise arms overhead to see if it alleviates symptoms.
41:23 🚶♂️ Dr. Sahrmann emphasizes the importance of movement in areas other than the back, referencing the body's tendency to followthe path of least resistance.
41:53 🔄 Tim highlights the importance of recognizing and altering movement patterns that lead to pain.
42:51 🧘 Tim shares that specific movements in Pilates classes seem to comfort his back, and Dr. Sahrmann probes deeper into these movements.
43:50 💪 Dr. Sahrmann discusses the impact of certain workouts on back health, emphasizing the importance of proper muscle engagement and movement.
45:44 🦵 Dr. Sahrmann suggests an exercise technique, sliding the heel while maintaining pelvis position, to alleviate back
01:01:48 💪 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann emphasizes starting exercises at the appropriate level for an individual's current capabilities. She suggests an exercise where one faces a wall and slides their arms up, maintaining shoulder height.
01:02:45 📏 Proper shoulder positioning: The shoulders should be positioned such that the clavicle angles up slightly. It's important to maintain proper shoulder position throughout the day.
01:03:42 🤔 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the controversy around stretching. She believes that true muscle shortness is rare, and issues often arise from relative stiffness in opposing muscle groups.
01:06:24 🚴 Dr. Sahrmann uses the example of a cyclist to explain that activity habits can cause muscle shortness. It's crucial to understand the root cause of muscle imbalances.
01:07:49 🚶♂️ Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses her interest in understanding movement patterns, especially in musculoskeletal patients.
01:20:52 😂 Dr. Sahrmann shares a humorous story about wearing her pants backward due to changes in her body alignment.
01:22:20 🚴♀️ The importance of postural alignment and its effects on clothing and overall appearance.
01:23:16 🎳 Dr. Sahrmann mentions how body alignment changes affected her bowling grip.
01:24:38 👟 Insights into how correcting posture changed the way her shoes wore out.
01:25:33 🏋️♂️ The importance of targeted exercises, like the quadruped movement, to improve postural alignment.
01:26:59 🔄 Discussion on hip rotation exercises to improve core strength and alignment.
01:28:26 🙆♂️ Emphasis on exercises to reduce kyphosis (rounded upper back) and maintain spinal health.
01:31:07 🦵 Understanding the role of the tensor fasciae latae muscle in movement and potential issues.
01:33:24 💪 Dr. Sahrmann's daily exercise routine, emphasizing the importance of mobility and strength.
01:36:31 🦵 Discussion on femoral retroversion and its implications for hip and leg positioning.
01:39:18 🦴 The interconnectedness of body parts and the importance of understanding the body as a whole system.
01:40:37 🚶 If you have a swayed back, it affects how you walk, potentially leading to overuse of certain muscles.
01:41:32 🚀 To improve posture, consider pushing with the ball of your foot during walking to activate the gluteals more.
01:42:00 🧒 Tim Ferriss has had kyphosis since childhood, and foam rolling and other methods haven't fully addressed it.
01:42:30 📚 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann introduces the possibility of Tim having Scheuermann's disease, which affects the thoracic spine.
01:42:58 🔍 While Tim's condition may not be reversible, the focus should be on preventing it from worsening.
01:43:54 📖 Dr. Sahrmann has written influential books on movement diagnoses and treatment.
01:44:51 💡 There is a need for more individualized exercise recommendations and recognizing that movement is complex.
01:46:14 🧓 Early intervention
Made with HARPA AI
This was a fantastically helpful conversation and we really need to work on movement!! Can you follow up with either this amazing woman or another therapist on how we should walk? There are so many problems from text neck to muscular imbalances that could be helped by simply walking (and perhaps standing and using our devices) better. Thank you so much Tim and Shirley!!
She changed my PT professional world with her first book!!!
The OG of movement science!
It’s taken me years of back pain to finally nail it, it was all in my glutes and hips not my back. With a mix of mobility work and the Feldenkrais method I’m feeling better than ever, obviously it’s going to take years of daily work to fix years of problems but I’ve now turned a corner.
Tim, Bro... 10 bucks says your problems have more to do with subconscious emotional stress than imbalances and mechanics. :) :) :) :)
So much great info! Would love a follow up video of the daily movements she does everyday in the supine and prone positions
I would love to see a video of her explaining the exercises while she is doing them too!
She's incredible! What a great interview..
I absolutely loved this interview! Shirley is seriously incredible and such an inspiration. I'm really curious to learn more about her exercises in detail. Thanks a bunch for sharing this interview, Tim!
I am looking forward to part 2 of this eye-opening conversation!
Wouldn’t it be great if, when you went to a doctor with low back pain, they would say, “I think we need to rule out whether or not the way you use your body every day is contributing to your problem? A PT could screen for that before we do other expensive things.”
Dr. Sahrmann has created the road map, through the movement system, for figuring this out. Good luck, Tim, in following through on Shirley’s advice!
Thank you Tim for this amazing interview with Shirley Sahrmann, I absolutely enjoyed listening and watching. And as a physical therapist, Shirley has been my inspiration and I personally subscribe and use her movement impairment diagnostic approach in my practice with tremendous success. Thank you for spreading the word of the benefits of Shirley's diagnostic and treatment approach that is functional and easy applicable to every day life! Loved this conversation!
Brought to you by AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement drinkag1.com/tim LMNT electrolyte supplement drinklmnt.com/tim and Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating eightsleep.com/Tim
NOTE: 03:14 For avoidance of doubt, the iliac crest (the bone) is described but the iliacus (muscle) is highlighted in red. Learn more about the iliac crest: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliac_crest
This should be a fantastic interview. I was supposed to be doing a triathlon this morning except it got rescheduled hours before the starting time. So, seeing this interview pop-up brightens the day. I look forward to listening to this instead after a session of jump rope and calisthenics. Thanks Tim.
Tim please can you make a brief explanation video of what she said, And simplify it! It will be very helpful for most of the people. Thanks
shirley is the bomb. when i learned her stuff a year and a half out of school it elevated my skills tenfold. no exaggeration!!
@timferris I have the exact same lower back pain, on the exact same spot. And I have the same spinal column thoracic kyphosis as you have. After several medical exams the doctors determined I have SI joint mechanical dysfunction. Therefore I'm a candidate for SI joint fusion surgery. I hope you get better soon and you don't go down the path of excruciating pain I'm in.
this was amazing! and I was extra excited bc what Tim described is exactly what I've struggled with for years. after going Many many professionals and seemingly like no one really knew how to help me, iv'e had to figure out so much on my own and its been getting better. this was great to listen to and so helpful.
10 Stars ! She's a rock star. As an occupational therapist and Pilates instructor I am always studying movement and movement related pathology. Plus I never want to be the source of contributing to someone's pain. The whole example of how a hip bridge is probably not a great exercise for Tim only confirms that an exercise prescription must work for the body in front of you and not necessarily ideal for the population at large. I would love to hear more about her therapeutic recommendations for reducing the thoracic kyphosis. I understand if it is Scherman's Disease the goal is simply to not let it progress, however in our tech laden world the forward head and rounded shoulders is all too common. She is so practical. Love that she encourages intense exercise only because it increases her clientele! Keeping it simple does have its advantages. Thank you Tim for interviewing this Queen!
Shirley is a legend
Legend is a Shirley
Its a gastrointestinal issue Tim. Look at the esophagus down to the colon, along the GI tract.
I don't have back issues...yet. I was just curious and found out that I would like to learn more about Shirley Sahrmann. She is awesome and an inspiring being. She has piercing beautiful blue eyes and wit to match. Thanks Tim for anatomy intro. I think an anatomy class in on my bucket list. A lot went over my head but I enjoyed the challenge.
Shirley is the GOAT!
Tim I think you might want to check out Foundation Training and get Eric Goodman and Jesse Salas on your podcast. As a PT I highly recommend this whole body approach to eliminating back pain.
What a joy to watch/listen to this conversation. Thank you so much to you both for sharing your time, knowledge, and conversational/interviewing skills, sprinkled with some unexpected humor! :) My favorite episode remains your Aisha Tyler interview, but this is _Shirley_ going to take a top spot in the rankings. If there's ever a chance to record or document her routine as well as proper execution of her recommendations to you, that'd be an incredibly helpful follow-up. I think I picked up on most of it, but it's a bit hard to know for sure without visual aids. Thank you again!
YOUR BEST!❤️
Tim, while not to take away from your pod cast with Dr. Shirley. You should see if you can get an interview with Dr. Stuart McGill, with your influence. He has done tremendous amount of work with the spine and changing how assessment are done. Very commonly when one does achieve such high level of understanding, as they follow the clues, come to the same conclusions.
Now I doubt I will ever confuse between Abduction and Adduction 😂
That analogy of alien abduction was on point. 👌
Also the soup analogy 😂👌
With all due respect to Dr. Sahrmann, many of the beliefs expressed in this podcast are outdated and dogmatic. As a physical therapist myself, I fight many of these beliefs in my own patients and there is some evidence to suggest they may, in fact, be iatrogenically exacerbating pain experiences. Many of her claims have no evidence to support them. For others, there exists evidence that is in direct refutation. I would urge you, Tim, to give your platform to an evidence based physical therapist or other MSK clinician who is actively challenging dogmatic and outdated beliefs within the field such as Aaron Kubal, Sam Spinelli, Marc Surdyka, Adam Meakins, Greg Lehman, Peter O'Sullivan, Lormier Mosely, and many others not named herein that are truly pushing the needle forward and greatly influenced my perspective and practice as a physical therapist. Hopefully, I'll be on your show one day myself and I would be happy to discuss the errors of Dr. Sahrmanns' well-intentioned approach. Best wishes.
Great conversation, really! Learned a lot for myself as well 😊
The only thing I am not 100% sure about is the quadruped exercise - do I let my hip get into anterior tilt or keep it straight and only let my thoracic spine drop to the floor? Would love an answer on this!
Thanks again!!!
I have chronic spine pain, three surgeries, one nerve ablation, numerous injections, fusion….and still in nearly unbearable pain. I have my first ketamine infusion next week, ptsd and major depression….I hope it will help!
I hope to be half as sharp as her when I’m 86. Amazing!
Visuals would be incredible!!!
Shirley is so amazing! She is what a PT should be and few are. I love the way she understands quickly any problems and how the entire body works together.
Try psoas muscle release using craniosacral technique. Unbelievably effective for lower back pain.
What a delight to listen to, so informative and it flew by as well ☺️ thankful for you both to have taken the time to record this!
I completely agree! Shirley's engagement in the conversation, humor, and active presence for the person in front of her are outstanding character traits. This shows great care for Tim, and no doubt, anyone around her. Her cadence of speech and direct, yet loving, nature, remind me of my late Grandmother. She holds and embodies a rare combination of beautiful traits.
Excellent discussion, many thanks to you both
@tferriss you and your team did such an amazing job with the terminology description / visual aids at the beginning. What a delightful interview -- great interview as always, but this means the world to me to see this legend having the opportunity to share her wisdoms to so many intelligent listeners and viewers.
I understood everything because I've felt all what my body needs since I started taking long (2h) walks everyday on my way to work: lower back pain, shoulder pain, and breathing exercises to expand the whole thorax that lead to a better walking and standing posture. I'm 33 yo, 1.90 cm and after 8h of working in a restaurant, I can walk home for another hour without back pain, folks 🎉
Coming up with the 4-hour series with the thought of utmost efficiency in mind; then years later finding that efficiency in movement patterns will save, or even negate, time spent on rehabbing. 🤯
I will certainly be getting her book(s) and implementing her wisdom.
Thanks for bringing her on Tim!
either : Pictures/Gifs/Video of all the movements gone over would be helpful
I was literally sending a voice note to my friend complaining about lower back issues 4 minutes before this was posted, if it was a targeted Ad I would have thought "My phone is listening", but it's organic content so the timing is a miracle
You’re educating and enlightening as always Tim. Stuart Mc Gill would probably go along with a lot this woman is pointing out to us. Exercises and everyday movements, overuse injury. Thanks Tim
I was thinking the same thing. Lots of same principles of McGill - not overusing the spine, restoring the hips, etc.
Excellent convo! Will there be videos showing the exercises discussed here?
Tim, keeps us abreast on your progress with her recommendations. Loved the show.
Great conversation Tim and Shirley! Concepts such as relative stiffness (active and passive) and tensegrity, as well as whole body kinematics are poorly understood even by professionals in human movement science and physical therapy, not to mention medical practitioners. As we transition from analog to digital recording and more detailed analysis of human function and dysfunction, we will become better equipped to do justice to Shirley's systematic approach to motor control and functional anatomy. Tim, thanks for bringing these concepts to the attention of a larger audience, the majority of whom will have some musculoskeletal problem now or in the future, and a vested interest in analysing 'how the body moves' and not just 'what body parts are moving'. Good luck with re-organising the 'movement system' that defines your posture - so that your back is no longer painful.
I really enjoyed this. Thank you
Grass Can't Grow on a Busy Street!
Great job Tim asking questions and inquiring about clarifications of the movement system with Shirley. Dr’s diagnose. Shirley’s movement system explains the “why” behind the diagnosis. Hopefully some of her movement diagnoses make to the ICD-10 book the next time around. I have followed her for many years and always come away learning something new.
A PT
What to do about SI joint disorder
This has blown my mind. You and I have verrry similar issues (I suspect I have an hypermobile SI joint according to my PT). It is debilitating often. It's funny that I was at the museum yesterday and was in so much pain and you had mentioned that exact example. 🤯 I thoroughly appreciated this apt conversation and will be sharing it with my doctor and PT.
I need to learn how to walk again.
Great conversation, with many interesting points. Rigidity of rib cage and thoracic spine is something I have been working on for some time. Also, she is very funny. :)
Wonderful.
I found it all very helpful as I, although a lot older than Tim, share his problems except it’s on the other side.
Also agree with the comments about how dynamic the TFL is. At one stage when my problems got really bad during lockdown I thought I was developing MND because of the extreme fasciculations on mild stimulus.
I am a retired General Practitioner with an interest in MS issues. I agree totally that these problems need to be addressed at a younger age- I was told I had shortened flexors in my late 30s but no real solution was offered.
With my interest in acupuncture and Alexander technique- which puts the correct ‘use’ of self at the centre- I eveolved my own treatment.
However the exercises suggested are really helpful as I am finding it very difficult to reduce the tightness in the Ilio/psoas or strengthen my G medius.
So a big thank you to you both.🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
0:38: 🎙 Tim Ferriss interviews Shirley A. Sahrmann, a legendary figure in the physical therapy world, about her influential work and expertise in movement science and physical therapy.
8:51: 📚 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses her book on movement impairment syndromes and its impact on physical therapy and diagnosing musculoskeletal problems.
18:41: 🤔 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the impact of asymmetry on spine alignment and the causes of lower back pain.
28:30: 🤔 The movement systems syndromes approach focuses on the importance of the movement system in overall health and well-being.
35:37: 🏋♂ The body follows the path of least resistance, so it's important to change movement patterns and breathing to avoid pathology.
43:12: 🔑 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the importance of proper alignment and motions in managing lower back pain.
51:21: :muscle: Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the assessment process for identifying movement-related symptoms and the importance of addressing structural variations.
1:00:55: 🗣 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann discusses the importance of maintaining muscle length and using the correct muscles during exercises.
1:09:53: 🤔 Tim Ferriss consults with Dr. Shirley Sahrmann about his posture and alignment issues.
1:17:02: 🤸 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann shares her self-care routine and the benefits of movement-focused approach.
1:25:38: 🏋 Dr. Shirley Sahrmann describes her daily exercise routine and stretches to improve flexibility and strengthen muscles.
1:34:01: 💡 The speaker discusses the problems associated with hip medial rotation and femoral retroversion, and how they can contribute to ACL tears and low back issues.
1:42:46: ✨ Tim Ferriss discusses his thoracic spine compression fracture with Dr. Shirley Sahrmann and learns about managing it and the importance of exercise.
Recap by Tammy AI
Very interesting conversation, very interesting woman. Love her. I would really like to know how’s Tim’s back doing now? Any improvement since you started this conversation.
PRI will change your life!! And answer all of the questions you have here about all of the symptoms you described. I’m surprised I’m the first one saying this here!! I’m a PT I can do it with you for free on a zoom call if you’re up for it
Just listened! Another old-ish physical therapist here and have integrated this work my entire career! I only have one conflict with what she says…I don’t believe there are “good” and “bad” movements. This is not an opinion, but current pain science. As a yoga therapist, I like to dig even deeper to how and why the habitual movement patterns occur. Why is there stiffness? Why is there constant tension in a muscle? Muscles were meant to relax. I find the answer in the autonomic nervous system and brain with a way that pain is processed. I came to this after doing what Dr. Sarhmann does and for many, fixing or correcting did not relieve pain. Even for the most adherent patient. So don’t feel bad if you have been to PT and it didn’t work for you. You might need to investigate further and deeper. Also great to see her adapt to telehealth;). Many companies think that we older PTs cannot adapt to modern technology to provide excellent treatment.
This is the type of stuff that impresses lay people. Unfortunately she could not be more incorrect. Having worked in the field for 2 decades, reading her work a decade ago, being impressed at first, seeing first hand that it does not play out in the real world, then seeing mountains of research over the last decade disproving her views, and hearing her now she sounds very much like an old professor that cannot accept the truth, which is that her entire life's work has been proven to be inaccurate. I get it. It sounds right. But so much of what she is talking about has been shown to be not true. In countless studies. For years now. It is ok to have a foundational framework. In fact it is necessary. You just have to be able to let go of what is no longer useful. Man I hate being that guy on the internet, but every once in a while I guess we all are.....
Oh and can I play the diagnosis roulette game too? Tim you have imaging showing some degeneration in the disc but also moderate facet arthritic change especially in the transitional segment which was never designed to function as a separate joint. Your lower facets are becoming weight bearing rather than motion guiding and are extension sensitive right now. Everything she gave you was relief/desensitization of lower lumbar compressive extension, including the standing with legs apart since it requires sacral counter notation
“GERMS “ can turn into GEMS. All men can do good and bad and hurt and heal. Sorry for the bad experiences grateful for the lessons.
So Tim. We are dying to know. Did you stay consistent with the exercises and do you feel that they are helping your symptoms?
Tim stated my exact symptoms. She is such an inquisitive mind and has humor! Great interview.
Wow, what an enlightening conversation!
There is no other video like this on the internet about back pain management, for sure!
Would love to see her daily movement protocol.(Instead of trying to visualize)
Amazing conversation. What was the app that was recommended for anatomy?
This was incredibly useful and inspiring. Thank you. 💚✨
How much does one gotta pay for Shirley to be their physical therapist?
9 months of low back pain. Tim could be pregnant guys
So wish we could see the poses and movements for visual people.
What was the funny saying she had about bald people again?
Beyond amazed at this conversation. Loved it.
The NKT/AIM guys basically just go straight to getting movement pathways functioning. It's next level from Dr. Sahrmann's quadruped. *Neurokinetic therapy / Anatomy in Motion Since most of the guys are PTs, they can address the movements with prescriptions, too.
I have some experience with chronic pain. For me, getting out of pain starts witH SOFT treatment of the body. The melt method is a perfect example of this type of work, getting the body primed to change at all. Next for me is Qi Gong and Tai Chi along with breath work (breathing into the back and sides, feeling all of the diaphragms work (palate, diaphragm, pelvic floor, feet). Work in Feldenkreis, Gyrotonic, following Bonnie Bambridge Cohen, have all helped. I have three teachers that almost feel like witches around a cauldron, calling my body back to life. Sometimes they teach me something that makes no sense until the weekend, when my body falls into ease. Yoga with Tim (especially 2023’s 30 day challenge utilizes some of theses techniques - it is really worth doing for the breathing and alignment help). Pain is death as far as I’m concerned. I hope that you can use any of this on your path to living fully again
Tim,
It's frustrating as heck to be in pain for nine months, and it can feel like insult to injury when you're told 30 different things by well-intentioned healthcare/fitness professionals with different ways of looking at the world. At a medical conference 20 (+) years ago an ortho told a joke: "How do you get 20 medical opinions as fast as possible? Ask 5 different doctors."
Oftentimes when we're in the middle of dealing with "tissues with issues" and we haven't crossed the finish line, it's time to look from the 10,000 ft view. As they say, "this is not medical advice" and there is no substitute for sitting in the same room with a client with your ears, eyes, hands, and moving and grooving in real time. With those caveats, just some thoughts:
1. Oftentimes it's not one single thing that caused the pain, but rather several small to medium things that have exceeded the tolerance levels. For example, during the interview your R side pelvis hiked up when you stood with your legs abducted. Suggests R iliopsoas and adductor tissue restrictions on R, and possibly L foot-ankle joint/soft-tissue imbalances. Also suggests some R pelvis/SI imbalances (e.g., perhaps lack of post pelvic mobility, sacral stiffness, etc).
Thoracic spine and ribs may also be restricted, with potential limitations in what Thomas Myers refers to as the "spiral lines."
Perhaps addressing all of these leads to a de-escalation of the nervous system. It's trite, yet true: "The human body is a system of systems."
2. Speaking of de-escalation and the interdependence of systems: we talk about how "stress kills," but few of us really take the time to look under the hood and figure out what's been on our minds. Any stressors that have been small, yet never ending? Past traumas you're still working on? Friends/family dealing with life-threatening issues?
Having several ways to talk thru, work thru, and unpack the emotional, mental, and spiritual loads on our minds can facilitate the "Atlas Shrugging" phenomenon.
3. You likely have a network of people with a variety of skills and talents. Lean into them. Temporarily it may be back to the "20 different medical opinions" frustration, yet keep digging at it until you find the totality of solutions that puts this in the rearview mirror.
As I often tell my clients: "Motion is lotion, just don't poke the bear in the eye."
Wishing you better health!
Dr Denny
@timferris
Thank you very much for sharing this amazing interview with my favorite teacher! I've attended Dr Sahrmann's multiple PT courses and was lucky enough to get her PT evaluation for myself multiple times as well. She is really wonderful and her knowledge of human body mechanics is outstanding!
Tim, I have exactly the same symptoms, and like you, have been playing sports and exercising for almost 50 decades... I have been figuring out the reasons for a year now, and this interview is invaluable. Your guest is phenomenal, a wealth of knowledge with a fantastic sense of humor. Thank you so much!
Good afternoon to you both
Again amazing woman and shared work.
Brilliant shared conversation.
I had what might have been described or diagnosed as chronic back pain for many periods decades of my adult life. Even thinking of it as a symptom of being a nurse.
The best relief of my symptoms and much more happened when I discovered, paid attention to and focused on. The Wisdom and practices of the Shaolin teachings and the like.
Most grateful to all.
Less lower back pain and stilll a nurse but that's a massively bigger and differential story.
💜
Tim, I'm a huge fan and am grateful for all you contribute to the world. I have been following your back pain issues via Twitter and the podcast. A loved one--late teen, very athletic and strong--had a year of lower back pain that wouldn't clear up--full diagnostics, spine surgeon review, multiple PTs, with full compliance in daily work, multiple body work specialists, TENS units, cryotherapy, heat, CBT for emotional/back issues, etc. What FINALLY worked: hydrodissection with a dextrous solution done by a chiropractor to dislodge entrapped nerves. Worked immediately! AND pain is still gone completely 5 months later--amid a very physical heavy weightlifting lifestyle. Spine surgeon said hydrodissection sounded like hogwash. Glad we ignored him!!!
over 10 years of chronic pain and going to various physical therapists and having zero luck, I would love to have a PT examine me like this.
...truly didn't expect to watch the whole thing. I was riveted and revealed by this conversation. Lots and lots to unpack and study...
Good Podcast! Definitions at start were great. Shirley is so knowledgeable and seems exceptional in many ways, however, she shares the same approach as most PTs, which is to simplify Tim's back pain and basically gives him a diagnosis/issue from little to no information at all!
If it was that easy Tim would have gotten relief already from any of the multiple PTs he has been seeing, who btw are all giving Tim different programs and are all just as confident as Shirley that they can give him the answer to his chronic pain right after they first meet.
Listened to the audio version and then came to watch it here as well. I'm recovering from a broken foot, and the knock-on effect has been crippling low back/SI joint pain from overcompensating for a boot and being unable to walk properly. So much of what she said in diagnosing Tim is exactly my issue as well - now I have a simple set of exercises to try that I am hopeful will really help me. What a delightful person she is, too! Thanks for this fantastic and enlightening episode, Tim!
❤Can we get a video of her work out with cues?
Recognizing my personal imapairments just listening to these two enlightened individuals, just brought tears to my eyes. The help I have been looking for was here, facing me! My heartfelt thanks to you both, I beseach you, KEEP DOING THE GOOD WORK, as long as you can possibly DO! In gratitude, Eleni
This is the third insude conversation that I have listened to today. Lol. The first was in a restaurant with a group of people talking in depth about food industry inspections. The second was a meeting on city traffic light installations and now this one. All great conversations. I will call this one "watching Tim get free low back advice..." 😂 JK Love the podcast n Thanks!
Great advices !! She is so smart and funny , love her, enjoyed this interview so much, going deep to your lower back issues . Fantastic , good luck with the implementing .
Great interview. The last disclosure Dr. Sahrman spoke really resonated with me. I work at a nursing home and I see the fragments of our “healthcare” system when it puts profit over people…
The whole "push, pull" thing with walking... great spot to expose understanding for those who aren't well versed in physical therapy/physiology!
I just started listening and am all ears! But before deep diving, my lower back pain comes when I drink more than my body can handle - caffeine (it can be from green tea to if someone is sensitive to caffeine, found studies on the Internet pedia - search about this correlation). It also happens if my stomach is bloated or hasn't been emptied properly, if I ate more than the mid-dose of oxalate-rich foods: cacao/dark chocolate mainly, and sometimes from dairy. Keep in mind dietary choices when it comes to back pain, near the adrenals. OK. Enough rant, let's turn on Tim.
Brilliant podcast-information. I am a brand new fan of Dr. Sahrmann, this amazing modern elder with decades of hands on stunning wealth of expertrise-experience and knowledge. Thank you!!
Amazing, Shirley is great!
Please fly out to her and tape a live session !
Well this was so eye opening. Low back pain has been with me since 21,! So structure and movement. I too took notes. ❤Tim you are a great trail blazer
Thank you so much for sharing this - this was tremendously helpful as I have very similar low back pain!
can you consciously close your rib cage? also ankle and foot awareness. everything else was mentioned by her.
if you've never experienced the activation of x muscle, then receiving verbal instruction is not always sufficient.
shes sweet and funny but also brings it back to her expertise - I'd like to be more like that.
complete anatomy app from same vendor as the essential anatomy app can be installed for free. not sure if the relevant features can be accessed for free though
Great episode! I wish we could see the exercises that she does. That’s the only place I got a bit lost with the descriptions
Excellent, inspiring me to continue pursuing my self-interest in this subject. Inspired.