In this episode, we discuss: 0:00:30 - Peter’s experience with debilitating back pain 0:14:11 - Anatomy of the back: spine, discs, facet joints, and common pain points 0:24:48 - Lower back injuries and pain: acute vs. chronic, impact of disc damage, microfractures, and more 0:31:30 - Why the majority of back injuries happen around the L4, L5, and S1 joints 0:37:20 - How the spine responds to forces like bending and loading, and how it adapts do different athletic activities 0:45:12 - The pathology of bulging discs 0:48:33 - The pathophysiology of Peter’s back pain, injuries from excessive loading, immune response to back injuries, muscle relaxers, and more 0:59:36 - The three most important exercises Stuart prescribes, how he assesses patients, and the importance of tailored exercises based on individual needs and body types 1:12:46-The significance of strength and stability in preventing injuries and preserving longevity 1:25:33-Stuart’s take on squats and deadlifting: potential risks, alternatives, and importance of correct movement patterns 1:37:08-Helping patients with psychological trauma from lower back pain by empowering them with the understanding of the mechanical aspects of their pain 1:46:59-Empowering patients through education and understanding of their pain through Stuart’s clinic and work through BackFitPro 1:56:08-When surgical interventions may be appropriate, and “virtual surgery” as an alternative 2:05:48-Weakness, nerve pain, and stenosis: treatments, surgical considerations, and more 2:11:21-Tarlov cysts: treatment and surgical considerations 2:13:34-The evolution of patient assessments and the limitations of MRI 2:18:40-Pain relief related to stiffness and muscle bulk through training 2:26:49-Advice for the young person on how to keep a healthy spine 2:39:24-Resources for individuals dealing with lower back pain
Can you do an episode dedicated entirely to the fascia system? I just came from my general practitioner and there’s still a lot of misconceptions about the new research. I had major blunt trauma to my fascia when I was 18 and I’m still having issues from it at 48. most doctors if you say to them “I have referred pain”look at you like you’re a liar or you have two heads, so you have doctors doing their patients a disservice because they don’t even understand all the progress that has made in the last 10 to 15 years. My general practitioner literally tried to tell me that there aren’t any major discoveries about the body left anymore, just refinements, so there’s major education that needs to happen for general practitioners, and the general public on this subject
Don't discount unperceived stress and back pain. From experience, I had about 5 years of progressively worse lower back pain including disc issues with the debilitating butt and lower leg nerve pain. During this time I sought help from PT, massage, acupuncture, and bone crackers. While offering some temporary relief nothing really fixed my issues. During this phase of my life (31-36 years old) my mother was dying from cancer. The day she passed, I was in a medium "background" phase of pain (not acute). Over the next week this pain dissipated and I have yet to suffer acute back episodes since (I'm rounding 60). I subscribe to Dr. McGill's big 3 with variations to keep basic core strength. When I get lazy on the core, I will have occasional muscle back pain (usually when installing snow tires), but I'm relatively bullet proof if keeping the core strong. In sum stress (not recognized in my case) is a mysterious influence that the medical community does seem connect with enough.
Finally an interview that does Prof McGill justice. I suffered back pains for years and his books are paramount to my recovery journey. And it gotta be Peter Attia that does the interview. Thank you a million!
Finding Dr. McGill was a miracle for me as a 66-year-old with chronic back pain and herniated discs since age 25 (equestrian, bodybuilding, gymnastics, track and field, long distance runner, etc., etc.). I can now manage my symptoms and do the things I want/need to do. I am also encouraged by your own story, Dr. Attia, of triumph over back issues. Thank you for this most excellent interview....you both are the greatest.
Terrible back problems from early '20s to '40s until I found McGill. Get his book "back mechanic", maybe his video, but definitely how to's he did with Jeremy Ethier on UA-cam. I run, lift, and play basketball with no issues.
@@ChrisB-u1w I followed the McGill "big 3" and also his advice for "virtual surgery," which was the most difficult thing ever because I rely on my exercise activities for systemic and nervous system regulation, so this was hugely challenging for me....but it made perfect sense and avoided gigantic medical bills and even more recovery time. Also, I'm very flexible and have always done lots of stretches, but I totally "stopped stretching" per his advice for herniated discs, and I could see that I had been continually aggravating my sciatic nerve and prevented it from cooling down. There's so much more in his Back Mechanic book which contains essential details to narrow down your own specific problem and how to best address it. Best of luck to you.
@@6681096McGill seems fine. I wish I didn’t start listening to this video when McGill couldn’t stop hysterically laughing to the host in the video. There’s nothing funny about back pain. There’s a time to be funny in life and a time to be serious.
This is one of the best podcasts I've heard and so valuable for advancement of knowledge and shows the lack of knowledge by many physicians and trainers. Dr mcGill is a gift to humanity.
It's rather remarkable how many physicians, therapists and other medical "professionals" are so incredibly ignorant about the body and it's treatment. This is particularly true with the spine. 😅 Most of them aren't particularly good in the region where I live and I've been to some that are considered to be very good. Many times patients are more knowledgeable than they are.
I would disagree, most patients come in with a list of 10 problems and so of course we cannot go into depth. That being said me and many of my colleagues do advise our patients, but many don’t listen, just want a quick fix.l without adjusting lifestyle or put in the work.
WOW! learned more from Stuart in this podcast than all my prior research combined. He gave me such a good understanding of my back and the evolution of my issues. Can't thank you enough Peter, you always have the best and brightest in their field.
You two have made the biggest impact on my life concerning health and longevity. I had debilitating back pain from 2 herniated disks in my 20's. I was told surgery, chiro, massage, acupuncture, and stop lifting. I discovered mcgill through Dr. Aaron at squat University. I lift more than ever and haven't had a single sciatic or disk issue in 2 years.
This was hands down one of the best Drive episodes. McGill was an authority on the lumbar spine 20+ years ago when I was at Osteopathic school and here he shows why. Well studied, deep insight and clear, practical explanation. Kids, devote your life to learning something in depth in both theory and application, and this is what is looks like. Great discussion!
Thank you for putting this material out. It's very timely for my brother who has been suffering with lower back pain. He's a hard HVAC worker and needs his back. I sent him this and hope he'll listen (I'm listening to share in case he doesn't find the time and will share what I learn also). I appreciate you so much, Dr. Attia.
The back guru and helper to millions. A complete pleasure to watch this podcast in it's entirety. I started out listening to it on my phone then took Peter's advice and decided for this one it maybe best to watch it and watch it I did. Thanks for interviewing Mr McGill.
No way!! Stuart Mcgill. Seriously I was gonna request you to do any type of content regarding back pain and especially lower back pain as I’m dealing with a herniated disc. As it’s getting more common these days. I freaking love you Peter 😁 Thanks a lot and can’t wait to watch this.
At 2:14:19 Peter asked what are the things on MRI that a radiologist can miss. McGill‘s answer was completely off the mark. He focused on missing cervical instability, but that’s not something a radiologist misses. That’s just simply a limitation of static imaging. Or the failure of the ordering physician to get a flexion extension film. Much more commonly, there are findings that are mis-represented or underrepresented on the MRI due to the recumbent position that it’s taken in with a bolster under the knees, flexing the hips. This severely under represents bulging discs. As was discussed,lumbar flexion increases the pressure on the disc and brings out the bulge, but in the MRI you’re lying flat on your back, the lowest pressure on the disks. The other thing that is misrepresented is spinal stenosis. The bolster under the knees causes flexing of the hips opening up the neural foramina, thus minimizing the true extent of the stenosis. It’s important to remember that the MRI report is simply a description of what the radiologist sees, and while the MRI tells the truth, it’s not the whole truth and nothin,g but the truth. You can’t just go by the report. You have to know enough about the limitations of the imaging in order to interpret it in a clinical setting.
Great points. Similarly, they’ll often ask for an X-ray with flexion but the X-ray tech will just ask you to bend forward normally. Anyone who has struggled with back pain for years and has worked to mitigate their own pain will often default to a hip hinge instead of actually rounding the spine. X-ray comes back with nothing abnormal when you can actually have sponylolisthesis/retrolisthesis. Long story but the imaging is not the end all be all. I had to learn all this from, Dr. McGill and then guide the spine specialist doctor for years until they finally started agreeing with my own self diagnosis. Crazy.
I'm a board certified diagnostic radiologist and that question is nonsense. Do you think someone with 15 years of training would miss a finding that a lay person would see? People on the internet are something else
@@Re3iRtH I'm a injured worker,,, I have "0: Faith in radiologists WHY? 99% of the time they sell their craft to the insurance companies... Hence "Nothing to see" What has happened to me and many others is a Travesty of Justice" For aperson with this amount of schooling, it's BLATANTLY Obvious... Medicai insurance Fraud= Blatant Racketeering"
Thank you, Great interview. I wish you'd have touched on lower back pain in women during peri menopause and menopause and role of hormones in disc degeneration and lower back pain. There aren't enough research and attention to this at all! Maybe in future episodes?
This. All him knowledge is male dominated and does not imply to women. Shocker, right. My cure: barefoot shoes and saddle chair. And walkung like crazy . Good luck
Coming from a practioner who sees 1000s of patients a year with low back pain. This is one of the best podcasts (informative and relatable) that i have ever listened to... Stuart McGill is a god
I think it was one of the best podcasts of stuart mcgill. It's really wonderful when the host of a podcast knows the right questions to navigate the conversation.
This is by FAR my favorite episode of the Drive Podcast. Thank you both Dr. McGill and Dr. Attia for all you do to help people live up to their full potential. ♥
I absolutely love listening to Dr McGill . I was on my hands and knees for close to a month . I was given an unlimited prescription for pain killers by my former family doc . I used Dr McGill’s book - back mechanic to get back on my feet and stronger than ever . I might be wrong but I’m fairly certain with the level of spinal hygiene I have now . I will never have back pain again
I had a 70 y.o. female patient with sever sciatica for 3 months. After x-rays and looking at her MRI. She had a grade 1 spondylolisthesis at L4, and Grade 2 at L5. Looking at her MRI her spine otherwise looked amazing for her age, turns out she took care of herself very well, exercised and ate healthy. She wanted me to really move the spine. Based on her MRI (how healthy her bones and other discs looked) I was confident that we could make some movement safely so I side postured her! It clunked loudly and she was dancing at her granddaughters wedding that weekend. She still comes to me every week for gentle routine adjustments and is still exercising, cleaning and performing ADL with just a constant ache at her left SI. An aches she'll have the rest of her life but much better than debilitating pain.
Hi, a PT of 23 years here, great interview, but want to let people know that there are really good PTs out there who specialize in back pain, many of his stories are the same for me and my colleagues, so happy to hear him comment on posture and mechanics, that's what we teach all day long!!!
As a PT what is your opinion on Dr. McGill’s statement about not mixing yoga and deadlifting? As a middle aged rock climber that started weightlifting this year I’m very concerned about this.
Not a PT, just a regular guy on the internet. I was very concerned about that too. I think maybe it has to do with stability. Yoga can be done in many ways, and I think he wants to warn against pushing end ranges of the joints. That’s to be differentiated from mobility, which is a controlled range of motion.
As a Pilates and yoga instructor, as well as a low-back pain patient and currently taking Dr. McGill's courses: If the spine needs stability and stiffness but you remove it through stretching/yoga, you create more instability. Every case is different and it depends on the specific patient and injury. It's like with the spine extension/traction tables. Would you stretch a spine that needs stiffness? No. I've been stretched by PTs for lower back pain. It made me worse. Couldn't even walk the next few days. But again it depends on each case. After a thorough assessment you determine what the specific person needs. Not just yoga for everyone type of statements. My understanding is that it's a continuum. Generally speaking, you can't have both: a heavy-lifting spine and a very mobile spine. The yoga master can't be the Olympic champion in weight/powerlifting. There is no free lunch in physiology (I think Andy Galpin's words if I remembercorrectly). Two opposite adaptations. But we could try to get the best balance of both. This balance would be different for each individual.
@@tallndorky while I can't speak for McGill, I think what he's getting at is that while both spinal mobility and stability are needed, certain populations like elite deadlifters need a lot more of one than the other (stability >> mobility). However, since most of us aren't elite deadlifters, I think pursuing a balance between the two makes sense. McGill's point is that if your priority becomes deadlifting strength, you shouldn't be regularly taking your spine to end ranges (potentially creating laxity) by doing yoga.
@@Flow_with_GGreat comment. As others have commented one should be wary of really pushing the end range of movement particularly if you're also going to lift heavy weights. Make sure you have some control when you're getting near the end range and also at times add in some bands or isometric resistance to your stretches.
Dr Attia, I enjoy all your podcasts but this one was the best for me. I can personally relate with this topic. When I was 40yrs old, I encountered 2 episodes of back pain. It lasted for so long almost 2 wks, laying in bed, unable to walk or sit; holding the pain because I had no health insurance. Later on I had a MRI and learned I have congenital spinal stenosis L5-S1. When my pcp suggested me to avoid any type of exercise I cried, because I loved exercise. I took a break, I learned the proper technique, stretching exercises and I went back to exercises, (training for life) It has been 10 years since and I feel strong and healthy. Thanks to God It makes me appreciate the life, the human body and all the things we take from granted. Thank you for everything you do.
Massage therapist here...almost all of my clients come from "I've seen the best neurosurgeon, I've had muscle relaxers, nerve blocks, chiro, pt, had a personal trainer, had botox for migraines...still in pain...no practitioner is touching them. A few lifestyle modifications, good bodywork, strengthening where needed, nutrition/supplementation as needed, and they are good to go!! Great interview. You'll never agree with everything someone says, if you do, you're in a cult. The big picture is that the standard of care will not help most of the population in pain.
Thanks for this Peter, I have a suspected disc bulge and I’m suffering and this is giving me additional options that I didn’t have before listening to your podcast. Greatly appreciated. Cheers
Having trouble finding the video references to the "big 3" in the video description. The bird dog and side plank are well known exercises, but I'm still a bit fuzzy on the modified curl up.
Ha. I too was 27 with my first back injury. I had a skiing accident and years of disc pain and sciatica. However, yoga has been my lifesaver. My surgeon was the one who said to do it for strength, balance and mobility. I did stop now and then and back pain would come back. Once I got back to regular yoga, strengthening my core and all my hip and back muscles, the pain would cease.
Fist of all thank you for the amazing work you do. It's really something that Dr McGill shout outs the impact the work you do has had in his life. I do have a question related to the "don't mix Yoga and Deadlifts", I was puzzled by this statement. Historically on the training you recommend for longevity there are core strength, regular strength (which may include deadlifts and similar repetitive movements), and flexibility (yoga like movements), how do we interpret this mismatch between flexibility and strength? Also in other episodes Dr Andy Galpin mentioned the feasibility of having really strong athletes with good flexibility. The intention of this question is how do we understand the statement as we may all need some strength and flexibility? How do we come up with the proper mix?
I am 66, started strength training 2 years ago. It's the first time I'm doing anything with my body. When I was growing up exercise was that thing that people did when they wanted to lose weight. Now there is so much more awareness, it's wonderful. I also take Gentle Yoga with people in their 70s and 80s. It's never too late!!! I am living proof.
This was an incredibly insightful episode. Dr. McGill is such an earnest and intelligent person that it was as much of a pleasure to hear his stories as it was to learn from his expertise in the field. Dr. Attia, I'm very grateful to you for making this information available to the public where only certain elite athletes and wealthy people could access such a high level of understanding from practitioners like this. I did want to address one moment in the podcast where Dr. McGill was asked to give advice to someone in their 20s and 30s and it was apparent that he has had some negative interactions with young people who would not listen to advice or even express interest in modifying behavior. I am a 30 year old and I'm incredibly interested in learning more about how to properly take care my body and, if not avoid certain behaviors, at least be aware of their impact as I age for the sake of longevity and healthspan. I was a bit disappointed that we didn't dig a bit deeper with that question, but I totally understand where that feeling of futility comes from.
@peterattiamd - Curious your further thoughts on the importance of deadlifting and squatting with progressive overload? It seems like Dr. McGill would not be a proponent of doing those movements with a relatively heavy load into middle / older age. Personally, I am conflicted on this one as I enjoy the movements, but at times seem to experience the wear and tear it has on my body over time. Thoughts?
This was awesome. I’m about to turn 25 and have been in back pain for five months ever since a powerlifting squat injury. Slowly getting on the right track after months of stubbornness and arrogance.
Great podcast. As a person with hEDS and 2 years out from l5-s1 herniated disc related to Eds, I continue to strive to strengthen and stabilize my core. I was told o don’t have all the chronic pain with other joints is because I have been so active in strengthening my supporting muscle. It is great to get confirmation I am on the right track. Thanks for this podcast.
I have had back pain for 30+ years. I bought his book The Back Mechanic and set up an appointment with Dr Edward Cambridge who worked with Dr McGill at the University of Waterloo. After seeing him and following his exercises - the big 3 and a few more. My pain is pretty much gone.
Monster/sumo walk with resistance band, glut bridges, nerve flossing, standing lunge stretch, 20 pushups, 1 minute plank, 1 minute dead hang. Walk a few kms twice a day. Eat healthy sleep 8 hours. Hot/cold shower 20 minutes meditation and early morning sun light.
I suffered from back injuries for years. I am grateful to Stuart McGill for making the effort to share his expertise. I do not know what I would have done if this beacon had not shown in my life.
Here it is! Was wondering all the time why there was almost no content on back pain that is on of the most common symptoms in population. Great episode.
For me, what overcame my chronic lower back pain was 48 hour calorie restriction (up to 600 calories a day). - 24 hour CR inadequate, combined with physical therapy. Do 48 CR twice a week, 2 days CR, 2 days normal eating cycle
2:31:20 Vert relateable. At 29 i got diagnosed with cauda equina, got surgery. Got cauda equina again while at the physio doing rehab. Got it again. I never wish anyone going through the same. From a sedentary lifestyle to a military conditoned athlete, into a Personal trainer. Thanks for this podcast.
Thank you so much for this. Those of us suffering with back pain within the inept medical establishment find this information incredibly comforting and beyond valuable. Many blessings on you both for the work you do ❤
Talking about the unfair development of nerves in a damaged disc - to go one further, after a herniation/damaged disc, during the repair process (which I have never seen explained so well as in this video), there is a risk for infection to get in - especially with Modic Endplate damage. Herniated/Damaged Disc + Endplate damage/microfractures can easily = bone infection. Which, it turns out, is what was causing my back pain of around 4 years. I have just finished the treatment (MAST: Modic Antibiotic Spinal Therapy) through an Infectious Disease Specialist and am blown away by how much it has worked! I feel like a normal person again. This video has been so incredibly helpful with the next stages of my healing process - because my poor facet joints and lower back muscles have been turned on 24/7 for 4 years. I'm now doing a deep dive into Stuart's website and advice.
Best show to date Mr Attia. Even someone like Peter, who went through medical school, was an accomplished endurance athlete, who promotes working out with weights, who is also familiar with DNS, didn't know about the nuances of the spine/disks that is in about minute 32:00. That's not knock on Mr. Attia, it should however be a lesson that everyone should do their own learning and be responsible for themselves.
Had back pain for years and recovered. So many great tips . Avoid surgery at all costs unless you have hard neurological findings. Unfortunately over past three years developed the unilateral neck pain without radicular symptoms that is very painful and bothersome . Woukd love to get Dr McGill’s take on neck issues now
McGill is the G of addressing low back issues. After going to MD’s, Chiros, Acupuncturists, massage therapists etc. for LBP, I read his book and watched his videos. I still have some LBP but way less than before. The big 3!! Let’s go!
Great thank you, very interesting. It would be great if you could talk to other specialists like Peter O'Sullivan, Lorimer Moseley or Greg Lehman for a different view on those very important matters. Thank you for all the great work, loved your book.
I spend a fair bit of time thinking about what to do to age well because of problems I see with my parents that I'd like to avoid. Dad has had a lot of back problems for years, so I'll pick up a copy of Back Mechanics, give it a read, then pass it on to him for his upcoming birthday. Thanks for the information. Hopefully this will be of some benefit for him.
I'm 32 and currently 6 months in to my 3rd significant bout. I'm hoping it'll be my last because PT and Prednisone couldn't help this last time. Thanks for this podcast, I don't know if I'll ever be "better", but it's nice to hear that people can figure out their pain.
Stuart mentioned that he could get someone with Spondi (spondylolisthesis or spondylolisis) to do a specific set of exercises. I've been living with this condition for 15 years, I am at the very limit, where this pain is taking control of my day. Can someone please direct me to what exactly he meant there? Observation: I have already read his book, and implemented the big 3. They were not effective. Thank you
Not sure about the exercices but have you consulted with a chiropractor certified in Cox technique? Dr's Cox technique of assisted flexion distraction is surely one of the most well documented treatment for similar conditions…Don't quit a solution exists. Good luck
I miraculously stumbled upon Dr. McGill’s classic textbook as part of my personal trainer continuing education. What a fortunate choice! I’ve learned so much from Dr. McGill, and that knowledge forms an unimaginable important foundation for everything I do. I work mostly with seniors, so the story of the old lady that Dr. McGill mentioned is even more relatable for me. Dr. Attia and Dr. McGill conversing is such a treat for us. Can’t believe we are this lucky to be able to receive this information for free. Thank you docs!
By the way, I listened all the way to the end even though I’ve never had real back pains (some stiffness after sitting too long, but that doesn’t count). I find this information very interesting because I work on prevention - doing exercises in good posture and form, and the proper training to increase stability/mobility.
Wow, who knew 2 hours and 45 mins. about back pain could be so riveting. I've suffered from lower back pain on and off for over 30 years. I'd given up on being able to do much about it, but now have some hope that it can be addressed with the right exercises. Looks like I need a copy of Back Mechanic.
Thank you Dr. Petter Attia and thank you for Dr Stuart Mcgill never had a chance for better understand back pain issues as I did from your precious shared knowledge. I truly appreciate.
just had a major back event for the first time, wow this podcast is a godsend! Thank you Peter for finding this gem and having him on..what a wealth of knowledge!
"Never mix up deadlifts and yoga" 43:20 🤯🤯 This is enlightening. I have been doing Pilates and yoga in my routine with deadlifts thinking the two things complement each other. Might need to rethink this. Always learn something new and actionable on these podcasts.
@@adamsussman1469 43:20. There are references to yoga and deadlifts throughout, including when Dr. Mcgill talks about how many lifelong deadlifers and yoga practitioner's eventually need surgery. Peter did a great job talking about his struggles with the desire to perform deadlifts vs the risk of injury. At 41, I struggle with this same issue as I'm sure many do. Dr. Mcgill really did a great job talking about the long term risks of heavy compound movements. A lot of us watching will really need to reflect after watching this. How important is hitting that deadlift PR really?
Ok but are we talking level 11 power yoga and 1 rep max deadlifts? Or can I do some basic vinyasa and 15-20 rep with bands. I think he’s saying don’t go in to elite directions. Surely a yogi should do deadlifts every now and then haha
Ok but are we talking level 11 power yoga and 1 rep max deadlifts? Or can I do some basic vinyasa and 15-20 rep with bands. I think he’s saying don’t go in to elite directions. Surely a yogi should do deadlifts every now and then haha
Ok but are we talking level 11 power yoga and 1 rep max deadlifts? Or can I do some basic vinyasa and 15-20 rep with bands. I think he’s saying don’t go in to elite directions. Surely a yogi should do deadlifts every now and then haha
Had a full blown spondo at L5 at the age of 16…was a young cricketer/fast bowler that was over bowled. I know chronic back pain and as DrMcGill mentions 😢 it changed my brain, depression, anger and anxiety…25y later diagnosed with Degenerative Disc disease and I’d almost had enough!!! I needed a hybrid fusion L4-L5-S1 fused, L3-L4 artificial disc. I’m 47 and I regularly think about what my back will be like in 10-20y time… I’ll be buying Stuarts book tomorrow, what an amazing man who seems to have helped many people stay away from surgery. Thank you Dr Attia for highlighting the importance of spine health.🙏
I cannot say one chapter is more interesting that the other . Truly amazing podcast with big expert , who is also enthusiastic and loves to help people .
Wooow!! 🎉🎉 what a crossover !! Very happy to see Dr. Mcgill here with you Peter, I'm a Physical Therapist too and He has been my mentor since I was a student, his books are amazing !! Really life changers. Thanks Peter for this interview 🧠
Agree with a lot of this. Messed up my back a while back. Could lift weights but nothing that stressed my back, e.g. squats, deadlifts. After a special spinal reactivation program which involved twisting bending movements while in an unbalanced stance I was agle to get back to trainig and deadlift 220Kg at an age of 54. Also, focused breathing exercises are very beneficial in the short term. I was able to apply this method right after a full-blown lumbago event. Normally this would put me down for at least 3-4days. But after about 2 hours of foucsed breathing the lumbago miraculously dissapeared!
As an engineer turned spine physician, I really resonate with McGill’s statements toward the medical system. I really want to spend an hour or two with a patient to figure out their pain mechanisms, but like he says, our interventions are a crapshoot. So in reality, you take limited information, then shoot your shot, kinda like in House MD. If your intervention works as intended, you just made your diagnosis. Thankfully, obvious pathology is obvious. The ones in the realm of nonspecific low back pain are the tough ones while the ones with non organic factors are practically impossible to treat with our current toolset.
Also it’s amazing how well mentally Peter handled very severe prolonged injury - much more so because he loves exercise. The 2 back surgeries, and all that led to it, id have a very hard time staying mentally well enough to work
What an engrossing podcast!! I listened to its entirety in the airport, then had to immediately rewatch it at home to get all the visuals. Then I bought his book, and I can't wait to get into it. Amazing job, fellas!
So- if I have adapted a flexible spine doing Pilates, is it possible to transition to a more stiff spine adaptation? I’m a woman approaching menopause and am trying to build muscle before I run out of time! Here because dumbbell deadlifts and weighted squats have me feeling my low back for the first time.
Peter, you are a magnificent listener and contributor- As a late 30's dealing with SI pain, I appreciate this. Would you have any recommendations for a workout routine or source to read up on that trains healthy athleticism? I've thoroughly enjoyed heavy lifting, but I'm ready to make the transition. That said, I need something with some resistance and challenge.
Such a great podcast, I'm 33 years old and I had low back surgery for a disk herniation. More medical professionals should listen to these kind of conversation.
My grandfather worked with work horses to dig ditches, graves and plow fields. His hands were enormous. I wish I could show you pictures of him and his father. Both were exceptionally thin and tall with enormous hands. Both lived to be near 80. My aunt just passed away, she was almost 103.
I had an emergency laminectomy due to cauda equina syndrome. The symptoms of CES came on quickly after a hard workout with kettlebells. I was doing a kettlebell swing and felt a pop. But since the pain wasn't too severe and the mentality "no pain, no gain" was so deeply ingrained in me, I kept pushing till the end of my set. I had never had any back pain before that time. It was an intense week, culminating in me losing feeling in both my legs, from my hip down, which landed me in the ER. Took me a year to learn how to walk again without a walker. I want from being a professional dancer to almost being paralyzed. I still have nerve damage from my hips to my feet but at least im walking again. Now im looking for a workout program that will help me stay strong 💪
Hi Dr.Mcgill , I suffered sciatica lifting a heavy water can on January 2022, and, recovered to some extent by traction and physiotherapy, but. .... Still the burning, tingling and pain in the butt, calf and feet persists, but, tolerable ... I will be in Milpitas and Santa Clara in California iby 28th February ... Can you suggest some clinicians, trained by you, there to consult and treat, since we hear you are beyond our approach for obvious reasons .... Obliged if you can advise ....
I’m 66 and have had two low back surgeries, disk injuries and I know chronic pain when I do the wrong thing. I receive shots in my spine for pain relief over 70 thus far. I hope this helps.
Absolutely mesmerizing….thank you, Peter for finding this guy….and I am now a Yoga practitioner who after hearing this interview has done his last dead lift!
In this episode, we discuss:
0:00:30 - Peter’s experience with debilitating back pain
0:14:11 - Anatomy of the back: spine, discs, facet joints, and common pain points
0:24:48 - Lower back injuries and pain: acute vs. chronic, impact of disc damage, microfractures, and more
0:31:30 - Why the majority of back injuries happen around the L4, L5, and S1 joints
0:37:20 - How the spine responds to forces like bending and loading, and how it adapts do different athletic activities
0:45:12 - The pathology of bulging discs
0:48:33 - The pathophysiology of Peter’s back pain, injuries from excessive loading, immune response to back injuries, muscle relaxers, and more
0:59:36 - The three most important exercises Stuart prescribes, how he assesses patients, and the importance of tailored exercises based on individual needs and body types
1:12:46-The significance of strength and stability in preventing injuries and preserving longevity
1:25:33-Stuart’s take on squats and deadlifting: potential risks, alternatives, and importance of correct movement patterns
1:37:08-Helping patients with psychological trauma from lower back pain by empowering them with the understanding of the mechanical aspects of their pain
1:46:59-Empowering patients through education and understanding of their pain through Stuart’s clinic and work through BackFitPro
1:56:08-When surgical interventions may be appropriate, and “virtual surgery” as an alternative
2:05:48-Weakness, nerve pain, and stenosis: treatments, surgical considerations, and more
2:11:21-Tarlov cysts: treatment and surgical considerations
2:13:34-The evolution of patient assessments and the limitations of MRI
2:18:40-Pain relief related to stiffness and muscle bulk through training
2:26:49-Advice for the young person on how to keep a healthy spine
2:39:24-Resources for individuals dealing with lower back pain
ua-cam.com/video/P8YiZO3OGjk/v-deo.html
Can you do an episode dedicated entirely to the fascia system? I just came from my general practitioner and there’s still a lot of misconceptions about the new research. I had major blunt trauma to my fascia when I was 18 and I’m still having issues from it at 48. most doctors if you say to them “I have referred pain”look at you like you’re a liar or you have two heads, so you have doctors doing their patients a disservice because they don’t even understand all the progress that has made in the last 10 to 15 years. My general practitioner literally tried to tell me that there aren’t any major discoveries about the body left anymore, just refinements, so there’s major education that needs to happen for general practitioners, and the general public on this subject
Fascial treatment for low back pain (acute or chronic) provides greater relief and lasts longer. @@AlbertManiscalco
Peter You should take his courses.
Don't discount unperceived stress and back pain. From experience, I had about 5 years of progressively worse lower back pain including disc issues with the debilitating butt and lower leg nerve pain. During this time I sought help from PT, massage, acupuncture, and bone crackers. While offering some temporary relief nothing really fixed my issues. During this phase of my life (31-36 years old) my mother was dying from cancer. The day she passed, I was in a medium "background" phase of pain (not acute). Over the next week this pain dissipated and I have yet to suffer acute back episodes since (I'm rounding 60). I subscribe to Dr. McGill's big 3 with variations to keep basic core strength. When I get lazy on the core, I will have occasional muscle back pain (usually when installing snow tires), but I'm relatively bullet proof if keeping the core strong. In sum stress (not recognized in my case) is a mysterious influence that the medical community does seem connect with enough.
Finally an interview that does Prof McGill justice. I suffered back pains for years and his books are paramount to my recovery journey. And it gotta be Peter Attia that does the interview. Thank you a million!
Thank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. God Bless!
Finding Dr. McGill was a miracle for me as a 66-year-old with chronic back pain and herniated discs since age 25 (equestrian, bodybuilding, gymnastics, track and field, long distance runner, etc., etc.). I can now manage my symptoms and do the things I want/need to do. I am also encouraged by your own story, Dr. Attia, of triumph over back issues. Thank you for this most excellent interview....you both are the greatest.
Terrible back problems from early '20s to '40s until I found McGill. Get his book "back mechanic", maybe his video, but definitely how to's he did with Jeremy Ethier on UA-cam.
I run, lift, and play basketball with no issues.
How did you fix your problem
@@ChrisB-u1w I followed the McGill "big 3" and also his advice for "virtual surgery," which was the most difficult thing ever because I rely on my exercise activities for systemic and nervous system regulation, so this was hugely challenging for me....but it made perfect sense and avoided gigantic medical bills and even more recovery time. Also, I'm very flexible and have always done lots of stretches, but I totally "stopped stretching" per his advice for herniated discs, and I could see that I had been continually aggravating my sciatic nerve and prevented it from cooling down. There's so much more in his Back Mechanic book which contains essential details to narrow down your own specific problem and how to best address it. Best of luck to you.
@@6681096McGill seems fine. I wish I didn’t start listening to this video when McGill couldn’t stop hysterically laughing to the host in the video. There’s nothing funny about back pain. There’s a time to be funny in life and a time to be serious.
This is one of the best podcasts I've heard and so valuable for advancement of knowledge and shows the lack of knowledge by many physicians and trainers. Dr mcGill is a gift to humanity.
This podcast didn't show what you stated clown
It's rather remarkable how many physicians, therapists and other medical "professionals" are so incredibly ignorant about the body and it's treatment. This is particularly true with the spine.
😅 Most of them aren't particularly good in the region where I live and I've been to some that are considered to be very good.
Many times patients are more knowledgeable than they are.
@@fitnesssoup7553 dont shit yourself poossie
Yes, thank you for sharing your assessment and opinion on this important topic!
I would disagree, most patients come in with a list of 10 problems and so of course we cannot go into depth. That being said me and many of my colleagues do advise our patients, but many don’t listen, just want a quick fix.l without adjusting lifestyle or put in the work.
WOW! learned more from Stuart in this podcast than all my prior research combined. He gave me such a good understanding of my back and the evolution of my issues. Can't thank you enough Peter, you always have the best and brightest in their field.
You two have made the biggest impact on my life concerning health and longevity. I had debilitating back pain from 2 herniated disks in my 20's. I was told surgery, chiro, massage, acupuncture, and stop lifting.
I discovered mcgill through Dr. Aaron at squat University. I lift more than ever and haven't had a single sciatic or disk issue in 2 years.
Thank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. Keep up the great work!
McGill is a global treasure. A life-saver. I love that man.
This was hands down one of the best Drive episodes. McGill was an authority on the lumbar spine 20+ years ago when I was at Osteopathic school and here he shows why. Well studied, deep insight and clear, practical explanation. Kids, devote your life to learning something in depth in both theory and application, and this is what is looks like. Great discussion!
Thank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. God Bless!
Thank you for putting this material out. It's very timely for my brother who has been suffering with lower back pain. He's a hard HVAC worker and needs his back. I sent him this and hope he'll listen (I'm listening to share in case he doesn't find the time and will share what I learn also).
I appreciate you so much, Dr. Attia.
The back guru and helper to millions. A complete pleasure to watch this podcast in it's entirety. I started out listening to it on my phone then took Peter's advice and decided for this one it maybe best to watch it and watch it I did. Thanks for interviewing Mr McGill.
Thank you for sharing. I agree that the Podcast was a complete pleasure to watch.
Listening to Stuart, seeing how much he enjoys what he does, is trully inspiring.
I agree, listening to Dr. Stuart McGill and Dr. Peter Attia is very inspiring indeed.
Appreciate the mention and the use of our anatomical models. Wonderful interview.
Thank you for sharing.
No way!! Stuart Mcgill.
Seriously I was gonna request you to do any type of content regarding back pain and especially lower back pain as I’m dealing with a herniated disc. As it’s getting more common these days.
I freaking love you Peter 😁
Thanks a lot and can’t wait to watch this.
2 hours and 45 minutes, are you stupid?
At 2:14:19 Peter asked what are the things on MRI that a radiologist can miss. McGill‘s answer was completely off the mark. He focused on missing cervical instability, but that’s not something a radiologist misses. That’s just simply a limitation of static imaging. Or the failure of the ordering physician to get a flexion extension film. Much more commonly, there are findings that are mis-represented or underrepresented on the MRI due to the recumbent position that it’s taken in with a bolster under the knees, flexing the hips. This severely under represents bulging discs. As was discussed,lumbar flexion increases the pressure on the disc and brings out the bulge, but in the MRI you’re lying flat on your back, the lowest pressure on the disks.
The other thing that is misrepresented is spinal stenosis. The bolster under the knees causes flexing of the hips opening up the neural foramina, thus minimizing the true extent of the stenosis. It’s important to remember that the MRI report is simply a description of what the radiologist sees, and while the MRI tells the truth, it’s not the whole truth and nothin,g but the truth. You can’t just go by the report. You have to know enough about the limitations of the imaging in order to interpret it in a clinical setting.
Great points. Similarly, they’ll often ask for an X-ray with flexion but the X-ray tech will just ask you to bend forward normally. Anyone who has struggled with back pain for years and has worked to mitigate their own pain will often default to a hip hinge instead of actually rounding the spine. X-ray comes back with nothing abnormal when you can actually have sponylolisthesis/retrolisthesis. Long story but the imaging is not the end all be all. I had to learn all this from, Dr. McGill and then guide the spine specialist doctor for years until they finally started agreeing with my own self diagnosis. Crazy.
I'm a board certified diagnostic radiologist and that question is nonsense. Do you think someone with 15 years of training would miss a finding that a lay person would see? People on the internet are something else
@@ManambeLavakaA radiology tech and radiologist are slightly different.. about 13 years of training different :)
@@ManambeLavakagood job! Sometimes our instinct about our own bodies is spot on. Imagine that!
@@Re3iRtH I'm a injured worker,,, I have "0: Faith in radiologists WHY? 99% of the time they sell their craft to the insurance companies... Hence "Nothing to see" What has happened to me and many others is a Travesty of Justice" For aperson with this amount of schooling, it's BLATANTLY Obvious... Medicai insurance Fraud= Blatant Racketeering"
Thank you, Great interview. I wish you'd have touched on lower back pain in women during peri menopause and menopause and role of hormones in disc degeneration and lower back pain. There aren't enough research and attention to this at all! Maybe in future episodes?
This. All him knowledge is male dominated and does not imply to women. Shocker, right. My cure: barefoot shoes and saddle chair. And walkung like crazy . Good luck
Coming from a practioner who sees 1000s of patients a year with low back pain. This is one of the best podcasts (informative and relatable) that i have ever listened to... Stuart McGill is a god
Thank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. God Bless!
I think it was one of the best podcasts of stuart mcgill. It's really wonderful when the host of a podcast knows the right questions to navigate the conversation.
agree, absolutely packed full of insights and knowledge. The length of time of this podcast helped him be more thorough ⏲
agreed 100%
@@DynamicdiscdesignsThank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. God Bless!
This is by FAR my favorite episode of the Drive Podcast. Thank you both Dr. McGill and Dr. Attia for all you do to help people live up to their full potential. ♥
The timing of this is impeccable. Thanks to both of you!
I absolutely love listening to Dr McGill . I was on my hands and knees for close to a month . I was given an unlimited prescription for pain killers by my former family doc . I used Dr McGill’s book - back mechanic to get back on my feet and stronger than ever . I might be wrong but I’m fairly certain with the level of spinal hygiene I have now . I will never have back pain again
Thank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. God Bless!
McGill is such a gem. After all these years and clients, he still loves what he does and is making a huge impact.
Thank you for sharing. It is indeed most encouraging news!
Professor McGill you are a saint. Thank you for being compassionate and such an amazing practitioner.
Thank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. God Bless!
I had a 70 y.o. female patient with sever sciatica for 3 months. After x-rays and looking at her MRI. She had a grade 1 spondylolisthesis at L4, and Grade 2 at L5. Looking at her MRI her spine otherwise looked amazing for her age, turns out she took care of herself very well, exercised and ate healthy. She wanted me to really move the spine. Based on her MRI (how healthy her bones and other discs looked) I was confident that we could make some movement safely so I side postured her! It clunked loudly and she was dancing at her granddaughters wedding that weekend. She still comes to me every week for gentle routine adjustments and is still exercising, cleaning and performing ADL with just a constant ache at her left SI. An aches she'll have the rest of her life but much better than debilitating pain.
Love McGill! Great choice, Peter. Just finished Back Mechanic and my 18 months of sciatica is nearly gone!
Hi, a PT of 23 years here, great interview, but want to let people know that there are really good PTs out there who specialize in back pain, many of his stories are the same for me and my colleagues, so happy to hear him comment on posture and mechanics, that's what we teach all day long!!!
As a PT what is your opinion on Dr. McGill’s statement about not mixing yoga and deadlifting? As a middle aged rock climber that started weightlifting this year I’m very concerned about this.
Not a PT, just a regular guy on the internet.
I was very concerned about that too.
I think maybe it has to do with stability. Yoga can be done in many ways, and I think he wants to warn against pushing end ranges of the joints.
That’s to be differentiated from mobility, which is a controlled range of motion.
As a Pilates and yoga instructor, as well as a low-back pain patient and currently taking Dr. McGill's courses: If the spine needs stability and stiffness but you remove it through stretching/yoga, you create more instability. Every case is different and it depends on the specific patient and injury.
It's like with the spine extension/traction tables. Would you stretch a spine that needs stiffness? No. I've been stretched by PTs for lower back pain. It made me worse. Couldn't even walk the next few days. But again it depends on each case. After a thorough assessment you determine what the specific person needs. Not just yoga for everyone type of statements.
My understanding is that it's a continuum. Generally speaking, you can't have both: a heavy-lifting spine and a very mobile spine. The yoga master can't be the Olympic champion in weight/powerlifting. There is no free lunch in physiology (I think Andy Galpin's words if I remembercorrectly). Two opposite adaptations. But we could try to get the best balance of both. This balance would be different for each individual.
@@tallndorky while I can't speak for McGill, I think what he's getting at is that while both spinal mobility and stability are needed, certain populations like elite deadlifters need a lot more of one than the other (stability >> mobility). However, since most of us aren't elite deadlifters, I think pursuing a balance between the two makes sense. McGill's point is that if your priority becomes deadlifting strength, you shouldn't be regularly taking your spine to end ranges (potentially creating laxity) by doing yoga.
@@Flow_with_GGreat comment. As others have commented one should be wary of really pushing the end range of movement particularly if you're also going to lift heavy weights.
Make sure you have some control when you're getting near the end range and also at times add in some bands or isometric resistance to your stretches.
Dr Attia, I enjoy all your podcasts but this one was the best for me. I can personally relate with this topic. When I was 40yrs old, I encountered 2 episodes of back pain. It lasted for so long almost 2 wks, laying in bed, unable to walk or sit; holding the pain because I had no health insurance. Later on I had a MRI and learned I have congenital spinal stenosis L5-S1. When my pcp suggested me to avoid any type of exercise I cried, because I loved exercise.
I took a break, I learned the proper technique, stretching exercises and I went back to exercises, (training for life)
It has been 10 years since and I feel strong and healthy. Thanks to God
It makes me appreciate the life, the human body and all the things we take from granted.
Thank you for everything you do.
This is the deep dive we all needed. Glad you stepped up to the task! Stuart is phenomenal!!
The dude is hands down the best in the business when it comes to back pain.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I completely agree!
Dr. McGill is such a great communicator.
Been following Dr. McGill for a decade plus. Genius. His work is so important. Thank you Peter.
I admire Dr. McGill so much! He is very kind and forthcoming with his knowledge and helpful advice.
Massage therapist here...almost all of my clients come from "I've seen the best neurosurgeon, I've had muscle relaxers, nerve blocks, chiro, pt, had a personal trainer, had botox for migraines...still in pain...no practitioner is touching them. A few lifestyle modifications, good bodywork, strengthening where needed, nutrition/supplementation as needed, and they are good to go!! Great interview. You'll never agree with everything someone says, if you do, you're in a cult. The big picture is that the standard of care will not help most of the population in pain.
if you're in the US, you're a client there and not a patient. The goal is to make you come back and get you hooked on pills.
@@warrenstringham415its everywhere
Thanks for this Peter, I have a suspected disc bulge and I’m suffering and this is giving me additional options that I didn’t have before listening to your podcast. Greatly appreciated. Cheers
How is your disc bulge doing? Did you find out if that in fact is what is causing your pain?
Dr. McGill is the GOAT for spine injury rehab and recovery.
Having trouble finding the video references to the "big 3" in the video description. The bird dog and side plank are well known exercises, but I'm still a bit fuzzy on the modified curl up.
Your not the only one. I combed the show notes on Peter Attia's website and still couldn't find them. Guessing they just forgot to add them
I believe what you're looking for is the McGill Curl Up.
@@julialindeman6858 Thank you, Julia.
Doctor Stuart McGill’s book helped me totally eradicate horrible back pain I had for 2 years. I will forever be grateful to him 🙏🏻
Which book? Back Mechanic? Or the rehab one?
@@didactica9326 back mechanic
Thank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. God Bless!
@@didactica9326 Back mechanic
Ha. I too was 27 with my first back injury. I had a skiing accident and years of disc pain and sciatica. However, yoga has been my lifesaver. My surgeon was the one who said to do it for strength, balance and mobility. I did stop now and then and back pain would come back. Once I got back to regular yoga, strengthening my core and all my hip and back muscles, the pain would cease.
Did you have surgery? And how far down did your sciatica go?
Fist of all thank you for the amazing work you do. It's really something that Dr McGill shout outs the impact the work you do has had in his life. I do have a question related to the "don't mix Yoga and Deadlifts", I was puzzled by this statement. Historically on the training you recommend for longevity there are core strength, regular strength (which may include deadlifts and similar repetitive movements), and flexibility (yoga like movements), how do we interpret this mismatch between flexibility and strength? Also in other episodes Dr Andy Galpin mentioned the feasibility of having really strong athletes with good flexibility. The intention of this question is how do we understand the statement as we may all need some strength and flexibility? How do we come up with the proper mix?
I love this man, respectfully!! Dr. Stwart Mcgill is a impressive scientist. I have studied all his books!
I am 66, started strength training 2 years ago. It's the first time I'm doing anything with my body. When I was growing up exercise was that thing that people did when they wanted to lose weight. Now there is so much more awareness, it's wonderful. I also take Gentle Yoga with people in their 70s and 80s. It's never too late!!! I am living proof.
Thank you for sharing. It is most encouraging news. God Bless!
So great. I’m gonna have to listen to this 2 or 3 times.
Holy Moly, you guys have no idea how useful this podcast is for me.
This was an incredibly insightful episode. Dr. McGill is such an earnest and intelligent person that it was as much of a pleasure to hear his stories as it was to learn from his expertise in the field. Dr. Attia, I'm very grateful to you for making this information available to the public where only certain elite athletes and wealthy people could access such a high level of understanding from practitioners like this.
I did want to address one moment in the podcast where Dr. McGill was asked to give advice to someone in their 20s and 30s and it was apparent that he has had some negative interactions with young people who would not listen to advice or even express interest in modifying behavior. I am a 30 year old and I'm incredibly interested in learning more about how to properly take care my body and, if not avoid certain behaviors, at least be aware of their impact as I age for the sake of longevity and healthspan. I was a bit disappointed that we didn't dig a bit deeper with that question, but I totally understand where that feeling of futility comes from.
@peterattiamd - Curious your further thoughts on the importance of deadlifting and squatting with progressive overload? It seems like Dr. McGill would not be a proponent of doing those movements with a relatively heavy load into middle / older age. Personally, I am conflicted on this one as I enjoy the movements, but at times seem to experience the wear and tear it has on my body over time. Thoughts?
This was awesome. I’m about to turn 25 and have been in back pain for five months ever since a powerlifting squat injury. Slowly getting on the right track after months of stubbornness and arrogance.
You sound like you are on the right track now. Best of luck!
Great podcast. As a person with hEDS and 2 years out from l5-s1 herniated disc related to Eds, I continue to strive to strengthen and stabilize my core. I was told o don’t have all the chronic pain with other joints is because I have been so active in strengthening my supporting muscle. It is great to get confirmation I am on the right track. Thanks for this podcast.
Love your series, Doctor! These are some of the best guidelines for overall health available.
I have had back pain for 30+ years. I bought his book The Back Mechanic and set up an appointment with Dr Edward Cambridge who worked with Dr McGill at the University of Waterloo. After seeing him and following his exercises - the big 3 and a few more. My pain is pretty much gone.
Can you please mention which few more?
Monster/sumo walk with resistance band, glut bridges, nerve flossing, standing lunge stretch, 20 pushups, 1 minute plank, 1 minute dead hang. Walk a few kms twice a day. Eat healthy sleep 8 hours. Hot/cold shower 20 minutes meditation and early morning sun light.
I suffered from back injuries for years. I am grateful to Stuart McGill for making the effort to share his expertise. I do not know what I would have done if this beacon had not shown in my life.
Excellent interview and resources! Thank you so much for hosting it!
Here it is! Was wondering all the time why there was almost no content on back pain that is on of the most common symptoms in population. Great episode.
For me, what overcame my chronic lower back pain was 48 hour calorie restriction (up to 600 calories a day). - 24 hour CR inadequate, combined with physical therapy. Do 48 CR twice a week, 2 days CR, 2 days normal eating cycle
There is something in what you saying .. I find over eating doesn’t help so this makes sense!
Absolutely fantastic. These deep, informative dives paired with your range is why your program is the best.
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, I love how animated and knowledgeable Stuart is.
2:31:20 Vert relateable. At 29 i got diagnosed with cauda equina, got surgery.
Got cauda equina again while at the physio doing rehab. Got it again.
I never wish anyone going through the same.
From a sedentary lifestyle to a military conditoned athlete, into a Personal trainer.
Thanks for this podcast.
Thank you so much for this. Those of us suffering with back pain within the inept medical establishment find this information incredibly comforting and beyond valuable. Many blessings on you both for the work you do ❤
Talking about the unfair development of nerves in a damaged disc - to go one further, after a herniation/damaged disc, during the repair process (which I have never seen explained so well as in this video), there is a risk for infection to get in - especially with Modic Endplate damage. Herniated/Damaged Disc + Endplate damage/microfractures can easily = bone infection. Which, it turns out, is what was causing my back pain of around 4 years.
I have just finished the treatment (MAST: Modic Antibiotic Spinal Therapy) through an Infectious Disease Specialist and am blown away by how much it has worked! I feel like a normal person again.
This video has been so incredibly helpful with the next stages of my healing process - because my poor facet joints and lower back muscles have been turned on 24/7 for 4 years. I'm now doing a deep dive into Stuart's website and advice.
Best show to date Mr Attia. Even someone like Peter, who went through medical school, was an accomplished endurance athlete, who promotes working out with weights, who is also familiar with DNS, didn't know about the nuances of the spine/disks that is in about minute 32:00. That's not knock on Mr. Attia, it should however be a lesson that everyone should do their own learning and be responsible for themselves.
Stuart McGills name is not mentioned anywhere, not the title or description.
Had back pain for years and recovered. So many great tips . Avoid surgery at all costs unless you have hard neurological findings. Unfortunately over past three years developed the unilateral neck pain without radicular symptoms that is very painful and bothersome . Woukd love to get Dr McGill’s take on neck issues now
Mentioned in the video are the three most important exercises. Will there be links to explanatory videos about these three exercises?
McGill big 3
I did some searches and I have done these before but never explained like this and I was trained in physical fitness but now older
McGill is the G of addressing low back issues. After going to MD’s, Chiros, Acupuncturists, massage therapists etc. for LBP, I read his book and watched his videos. I still have some LBP but way less than before. The big 3!! Let’s go!
Great thank you, very interesting. It would be great if you could talk to other specialists like Peter O'Sullivan, Lorimer Moseley or Greg Lehman for a different view on those very important matters. Thank you for all the great work, loved your book.
I spend a fair bit of time thinking about what to do to age well because of problems I see with my parents that I'd like to avoid. Dad has had a lot of back problems for years, so I'll pick up a copy of Back Mechanics, give it a read, then pass it on to him for his upcoming birthday. Thanks for the information. Hopefully this will be of some benefit for him.
Love that
I'm 32 and currently 6 months in to my 3rd significant bout. I'm hoping it'll be my last because PT and Prednisone couldn't help this last time. Thanks for this podcast, I don't know if I'll ever be "better", but it's nice to hear that people can figure out their pain.
Stuart mentioned that he could get someone with Spondi (spondylolisthesis or spondylolisis) to do a specific set of exercises. I've been living with this condition for 15 years, I am at the very limit, where this pain is taking control of my day. Can someone please direct me to what exactly he meant there?
Observation: I have already read his book, and implemented the big 3. They were not effective.
Thank you
Not sure about the exercices but have you consulted with a chiropractor certified in Cox technique? Dr's Cox technique of assisted flexion distraction is surely one of the most well documented treatment for similar conditions…Don't quit a solution exists. Good luck
I miraculously stumbled upon Dr. McGill’s classic textbook as part of my personal trainer continuing education. What a fortunate choice! I’ve learned so much from Dr. McGill, and that knowledge forms an unimaginable important foundation for everything I do. I work mostly with seniors, so the story of the old lady that Dr. McGill mentioned is even more relatable for me. Dr. Attia and Dr. McGill conversing is such a treat for us. Can’t believe we are this lucky to be able to receive this information for free. Thank you docs!
By the way, I listened all the way to the end even though I’ve never had real back pains (some stiffness after sitting too long, but that doesn’t count). I find this information very interesting because I work on prevention - doing exercises in good posture and form, and the proper training to increase stability/mobility.
I can’t see links to examples of the 3 exercises in the video notes?
I have some great videos on the subject - most videos show them being bastardized at best
ua-cam.com/video/C89EKtI8a3o/v-deo.html
Wow, who knew 2 hours and 45 mins. about back pain could be so riveting. I've suffered from lower back pain on and off for over 30 years. I'd given up on being able to do much about it, but now have some hope that it can be addressed with the right exercises. Looks like I need a copy of Back Mechanic.
Thank you Dr. Petter Attia and thank you for Dr Stuart Mcgill never had a chance for better understand back pain issues as I did from your precious shared knowledge. I truly appreciate.
just had a major back event for the first time, wow this podcast is a godsend! Thank you Peter for finding this gem and having him on..what a wealth of knowledge!
Exceptional podcast. I've been dealing with the same issues as you described, so this really hit home.
"Never mix up deadlifts and yoga" 43:20 🤯🤯 This is enlightening. I have been doing Pilates and yoga in my routine with deadlifts thinking the two things complement each other. Might need to rethink this. Always learn something new and actionable on these podcasts.
what was approximate timestamp on that comment?
@@adamsussman1469 43:20. There are references to yoga and deadlifts throughout, including when Dr. Mcgill talks about how many lifelong deadlifers and yoga practitioner's eventually need surgery. Peter did a great job talking about his struggles with the desire to perform deadlifts vs the risk of injury. At 41, I struggle with this same issue as I'm sure many do. Dr. Mcgill really did a great job talking about the long term risks of heavy compound movements. A lot of us watching will really need to reflect after watching this. How important is hitting that deadlift PR really?
Ok but are we talking level 11 power yoga and 1 rep max deadlifts? Or can I do some basic vinyasa and 15-20 rep with bands. I think he’s saying don’t go in to elite directions.
Surely a yogi should do deadlifts every now and then haha
Ok but are we talking level 11 power yoga and 1 rep max deadlifts? Or can I do some basic vinyasa and 15-20 rep with bands. I think he’s saying don’t go in to elite directions.
Surely a yogi should do deadlifts every now and then haha
Ok but are we talking level 11 power yoga and 1 rep max deadlifts? Or can I do some basic vinyasa and 15-20 rep with bands. I think he’s saying don’t go in to elite directions.
Surely a yogi should do deadlifts every now and then haha
Had a full blown spondo at L5 at the age of 16…was a young cricketer/fast bowler that was over bowled.
I know chronic back pain and as DrMcGill mentions 😢 it changed my brain, depression, anger and anxiety…25y later diagnosed with Degenerative Disc disease and I’d almost had enough!!!
I needed a hybrid fusion L4-L5-S1 fused, L3-L4 artificial disc.
I’m 47 and I regularly think about what my back will be like in 10-20y time…
I’ll be buying Stuarts book tomorrow, what an amazing man who seems to have helped many people stay away from surgery.
Thank you Dr Attia for highlighting the importance of spine health.🙏
I cannot say one chapter is more interesting that the other . Truly amazing podcast with big expert , who is also enthusiastic and loves to help people .
Wooow!! 🎉🎉 what a crossover !! Very happy to see Dr. Mcgill here with you Peter, I'm a Physical Therapist too and He has been my mentor since I was a student, his books are amazing !! Really life changers. Thanks Peter for this interview 🧠
Agree with a lot of this. Messed up my back a while back. Could lift weights but nothing that stressed my back, e.g. squats, deadlifts.
After a special spinal reactivation program which involved twisting bending movements while in an unbalanced stance I was agle to get back to trainig and deadlift 220Kg at an age of 54.
Also, focused breathing exercises are very beneficial in the short term.
I was able to apply this method right after a full-blown lumbago event. Normally this would put me down for at least 3-4days. But after about 2 hours of foucsed breathing the lumbago miraculously dissapeared!
As an engineer turned spine physician, I really resonate with McGill’s statements toward the medical system. I really want to spend an hour or two with a patient to figure out their pain mechanisms, but like he says, our interventions are a crapshoot. So in reality, you take limited information, then shoot your shot, kinda like in House MD. If your intervention works as intended, you just made your diagnosis. Thankfully, obvious pathology is obvious. The ones in the realm of nonspecific low back pain are the tough ones while the ones with non organic factors are practically impossible to treat with our current toolset.
I couldn't find the videos of the big three exercises. Can some direct me where I can find these links?
Absolute gold! Thank you both so much for this wealth of information and sharing your knowledge👏
Where are the links to the big three exercises discussed in the podcast?
ua-cam.com/video/C89EKtI8a3o/v-deo.html
Looking for them too.
Thank you so much for this podcast, Peter!
Is there any chance you might be able to do a similar video on neck pain?
I have been seeing an increase in basivertebral nerve ablation over the past years. Any comments on this procedure?
Also it’s amazing how well mentally Peter handled very severe prolonged injury - much more so because he loves exercise. The 2 back surgeries, and all that led to it, id have a very hard time staying mentally well enough to work
What an engrossing podcast!! I listened to its entirety in the airport, then had to immediately rewatch it at home to get all the visuals. Then I bought his book, and I can't wait to get into it. Amazing job, fellas!
So- if I have adapted a flexible spine doing Pilates, is it possible to transition to a more stiff spine adaptation? I’m a woman approaching menopause and am trying to build muscle before I run out of time! Here because dumbbell deadlifts and weighted squats have me feeling my low back for the first time.
Exact same situation. I'm super flexible from yoga but it hasn't given me the stability to bring into my future.
Peter, great job asking the right questions
Your story is incredible and I am so grateful you told it from beginning to end. I am more prepared for neurosurgeon. Such good info from you both
Are vibration plates good for the spine?
Peter, you are a magnificent listener and contributor- As a late 30's dealing with SI pain, I appreciate this. Would you have any recommendations for a workout routine or source to read up on that trains healthy athleticism? I've thoroughly enjoyed heavy lifting, but I'm ready to make the transition. That said, I need something with some resistance and challenge.
Such a great podcast, I'm 33 years old and I had low back surgery for a disk herniation. More medical professionals should listen to these kind of conversation.
My grandfather worked with work horses to dig ditches, graves and plow fields. His hands were enormous.
I wish I could show you pictures of him and his father. Both were exceptionally thin and tall with enormous hands. Both lived to be near 80. My aunt just passed away, she was almost 103.
Thank you for this podcast Dr. Attia, and for the knowledge I have gained. I am ordering Dr. McGill's book!
Thank you so much for this episode. Very informative. Did you post the videos of the big 3 exercises? I don’t see them in the description. Thanks!
Boy do i relate to peters opening story. Its scary waking up in the morning and not being able to walk and not knowing what the hells going on
I had an emergency laminectomy due to cauda equina syndrome. The symptoms of CES came on quickly after a hard workout with kettlebells. I was doing a kettlebell swing and felt a pop. But since the pain wasn't too severe and the mentality "no pain, no gain" was so deeply ingrained in me, I kept pushing till the end of my set. I had never had any back pain before that time. It was an intense week, culminating in me losing feeling in both my legs, from my hip down, which landed me in the ER.
Took me a year to learn how to walk again without a walker. I want from being a professional dancer to almost being paralyzed. I still have nerve damage from my hips to my feet but at least im walking again. Now im looking for a workout program that will help me stay strong 💪
Hi Dr.Mcgill , I suffered sciatica lifting a heavy water can on January 2022, and, recovered to some extent by traction and physiotherapy, but. ....
Still the burning, tingling and pain in the butt, calf and feet persists, but, tolerable ...
I will be in Milpitas and Santa Clara in California iby 28th February ...
Can you suggest some clinicians, trained by you, there to consult and treat, since we hear you are beyond our approach for obvious reasons ....
Obliged if you can advise ....
omg that story made me cry. i felt my life was going this way.Thank you.
I’m 66 and have had two low back surgeries, disk injuries and I know chronic pain when I do the wrong thing. I receive shots in my spine for pain relief over 70 thus far. I hope this helps.
Absolutely mesmerizing….thank you, Peter for finding this guy….and I am now a Yoga practitioner who after hearing this interview has done his last dead lift!