Brilliant video and explanation - you have saved my sanity! Just bought a small drone as a camera in the sky for photography purposes. I had tried everything with little to no improvement with video. So, my first search came up with your assessment of the problem and how right you are when you say "don't do it". It can be dealt with easier in the editing in Photoshop by cutting and fading in and out of the clips. Many thanks for your information and time.
Yes, if you want maximum blur and minimum judder. The 180 "rule" is rather overrated I think - it's simply the closest approximation to the original "cinematic" look, because cine cameras used a 180 shutter. But they were stuck with that as a purely mechanical limitation - why should everyone slavishly follow this setting, given that we have much more control over it nowadays?
Depending on the situation and your software . . . If the problem is judder, most good software has a "motion blur" tool which will blur each frame smoothly into the next, to create a more natural look. But if it's already blurred and you don't like it, then there's probably not a lot you can do.
Thanks. If you're a fan of speedy pans: just use a modern smartphone and record with 120 fps. Play back on the smartphone with 120 fps (make sure the screen of the smartphone is able to do 120 Hz refresh rates). No more judder&blur! And the image will be sharp enough when hitting pause. Why is that? The latency of the human visual processing system is slower than 1/120 s for central vision, so you will see motion blur, but that blur will be generated by your own retina (in addition to any slight blur caused by the quick panning movement, visible when hitting pause)
hi sir, hope u still read my comment, so how about hollywood movies? 24 fps but very smooth when panning scene? why it can be smooth and no judder? btw sorry for my bad english
Wow… match frame rate and shutter speed vs double it!? First I heard of it?! Can’t wait to try it. This is what the software is doing for optical flow I suppose.
@@sidsquid1 Well, I usually shoot at 50fps and still get plenty of judder if I don't watch out. And you colleague "Stop the Fomo" says that higher resolution makes judder more noticeable. ua-cam.com/video/b0ilxD0lIy0/v-deo.html (from 9:00) So you think that doesn' count for higher frame rates?
@@CARambolagen Resolution and frame rate are completely different parameters, and have nothing to do with each other. But you have completely missed the message in the video you linked to - going to higher frame rate REDUCES effect of judder. Watch it again . . .
LOL hilarious and thank you sir I have a question, I use Cannon 60D at 24fps and 1/50 shutter, it should look like film, but it doesnt, even with color correction and added blur to soften the image and even having added grain and dropping frames to 18 and forcing 180 degree through Force Motion Blur where you can change blur samples. Im missing something, besides actually shooting on Film, because Ive seen videos shot at 30 or 60, but they look like film when they converted them to 24, they have the right motion blur and it looks creamy and dreamy and when I do it, it looks higher than 24. Actually, the camera has 50 shutter and not 48, is that why? Please help getting the perfect motion blur at 24 and the the frame rate looking like film and not too realistic
@@sidsquid1 There is one on my channel, with electricity meters that you can check. But i have not uploaded others because of this issue. Im trying to learn
There isn't much motion in it, so you cant tell, so ill have to upload something later But I did change it to 18fps I think, because 24 looks too smooth for some reason and im not on one of those new 4k monitors with digital smoothing on, its an old LCD that should work fine
Frame rate conversion is a complex subject, and not one that I claim to be expert in! If you do some Googling you'll find lots of stuff out there - for example: larryjordan.com/articles/frame-rates-are-tricky-beasts/ The answer to your specific question is "it depends"! If you're going from 50 to 25fps, the simplest way for software to do this is to delete every other frame. So if the original video was shot at high shutter speed, and was a series of crisp images stuttering at 50 frames per second, the converted result will be exactly the same, but at 25fps, so you'd think the stutter will be twice as noticeable, because each image will now be "shifted" by twice the distance from the last one. Unless - your software is clever enough to artificially re-introduce the natural blurring that the human eye creates. Check this out, for instance: www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/video-effects/how-to-add-motion-blur-to-videos/ I could go on. But I'll tell you the best, most definite, and probably fastest way to answer your question: Just try it and see what happens! (And let me know the result ... LOL)
I am puzzled by one aspect of this. When I load video to my computer and it goes into the pictures folder it looks good. But as soon as I import to premiere pro it has jitters. Any ideas on this.
I couldn't say for certain. But when I load videos into Vegas Pro (my choice of editor), I sometimes have to be careful about the "project properties" vs the properties of the video itself. One option in Vegas is to set the project properties to the same as the first video imported. Maybe if you can try something similar in PP to see if it has any effect? Let's face it, it has to be something like that! Oh, and the other thing I have to watch is what preview settings are set. I can set "good", "better" and "best" viewing qualities. A way to test if it's simply an issue when viewing it in PP is to render it out and see what it looks like after it's "passed through" your editor.
@@sidsquid1 thanks for the quick reply. It's video recorded at 60fps with shutter speed of 1/125. I'm going to render a couple of clips and export them to see what happens. I'll also look into the settings. Generally I edit in 1/2 quality. If you don't mind I'll let you know what happens.
@@steveloudon7491 OK. Those settings are the "traditional" 180 degree shutter, AKA "Cinematic", and should look in between stuttered and blurred. If you import to a project with a different frame rate, funny things can happen depending on preview settings, whether forced resampling is on, etc. Too complex to go into here (that's pro talk for "I don't really understand it all either!")
@@sidsquid1 Well owning a drone, the footage is bound to be panning and a lot. There's got to be a way to compensate for the dropped frame every second or so.
@@sidsquid1 My panning shots go smoothly for a second, then there's a single frame skip, smooth for a second, a frame skip, and so on. It's just strange it can run smoothly for many frames (recorded and rendered at 29.97 fps), and then misses a frame.
Hmmm, doesn't sound like a panning problem per se - more likely you only notice it because the scene is moving. Even though it's recorded and rendered at 29.97 fps, it smells of resampling/fps conversion, etc. Can you count the frames between each dropout - is it always the same number? I wonder if it's even in the drone itself - ie. is there some conversion taking place internally so that the recorded file has already been processed in some way? I must look at my own Mavic 2 Pro to see if that's a possibillity.
Thanks Sid been scanning the tube for the answer to this and yours was by far the quickest and easiest to understand thanks again 👍
My pleasure!
@@sidsquid1 By the way forgive my ignorance, N.Z. or Aus, only looked a bit hilly for Aus.
@@laurencetitusoates6328 Ha ha! It's Aus. We actually have mountains here you know . . .
Extraordinary. Outstandingly clear and onest. It s a rarity endeed, thanks for that.
So glad it helped, thanks.
Thanks for your explanation. By the way, you have a lovely back yard.
Thank you!
I love the sound explanation and simple solution. Great video!
Thanks 007!
this is the answer i lookin for after almost several hours searching , thanks mate
Glad it helped Yoshi!
Brilliant video and explanation - you have saved my sanity! Just bought a small drone as a camera in the sky for photography purposes. I had tried everything with little to no improvement with video.
So, my first search came up with your assessment of the problem and how right you are when you say "don't do it". It can be dealt with easier in the editing in Photoshop by cutting and fading in and out of the clips.
Many thanks for your information and time.
Thnkas Barry, glad you liked it.
Couldn't have said it any better. You did crack me up when you said : "whats the answer to avoid blurring or jittering , Don't do it!"
Yeah, gotta keep your sense of humour sometimes
So if I shoot at 25fps, I should drip my shutter speed to 1/25 and not 1/50 as the 180 degree shutter angle rule suggests.
Yes, if you want maximum blur and minimum judder. The 180 "rule" is rather overrated I think - it's simply the closest approximation to the original "cinematic" look, because cine cameras used a 180 shutter. But they were stuck with that as a purely mechanical limitation - why should everyone slavishly follow this setting, given that we have much more control over it nowadays?
@@sidsquid1 exactly my experience.
wow, the most scenic backyard I have seen in a while ! :)
Yup!
You sir are a freakin genius!
Thanks!
THANK YOU SIR .. THANK YOU FOR THE CLEAR ANSWER ❤❤ UNLIKE SO MANY ORTHER UA-camRS
My pleasure!
Bloody awesome, Hoges! Thanks, mate!!
Cheers Peter.
Exactly what i have been lookking for. but sad to hear there is no way to fix the video that had already taken
Depending on the situation and your software . . .
If the problem is judder, most good software has a "motion blur" tool which will blur each frame smoothly into the next, to create a more natural look. But if it's already blurred and you don't like it, then there's probably not a lot you can do.
so welllll explained
Thank you!
You can scan the horizon with your eyes and have blur if you just defocus
Might need to smoke a lot of hooch to do that ... LOL! But focussing on the finger as per the video achieves the same thing.
@@sidsquid1 I think hooch is for drinking 🤣
Cool explanation! :)
Thanks!
Brilliant! Thx for sharing 😊
Glad it helped Michael.
Thanks.
If you're a fan of speedy pans: just use a modern smartphone and record with 120 fps. Play back on the smartphone with 120 fps (make sure the screen of the smartphone is able to do 120 Hz refresh rates). No more judder&blur! And the image will be sharp enough when hitting pause. Why is that? The latency of the human visual processing system is slower than 1/120 s for central vision, so you will see motion blur, but that blur will be generated by your own retina (in addition to any slight blur caused by the quick panning movement, visible when hitting pause)
Nice one!
thats what i was looking for :) thanks
You're welcome!
hi sir, hope u still read my comment, so how about hollywood movies? 24 fps but very smooth when panning scene? why it can be smooth and no judder? btw sorry for my bad english
Slower shutter speed = more smooth motion blur and less judder. Plus if they're panning slowly enough, you don't notice it.
Thank u so much for this information.. I have worked on it. Plz give us more.
Glad it was useful!
So its not my new QLED tv being shitty when i see judder in scenes with a lot of detail and the camera pans?
Correct!
@@sidsquid1 thank you sir! Much appreciated.
Good Video and good tip indeed.
Thanks!
Wow… match frame rate and shutter speed vs double it!? First I heard of it?! Can’t wait to try it. This is what the software is doing for optical flow I suppose.
Have fun with it!
So 25fps is actually better than 50fps in order to avoid judder??
No - not sure how you arrived at that conclusion?
@@sidsquid1 Well, I usually shoot at 50fps and still get plenty of judder if I don't watch out. And you colleague "Stop the Fomo" says that higher resolution makes judder more noticeable. ua-cam.com/video/b0ilxD0lIy0/v-deo.html (from 9:00) So you think that doesn' count for higher frame rates?
@@CARambolagen Resolution and frame rate are completely different parameters, and have nothing to do with each other. But you have completely missed the message in the video you linked to - going to higher frame rate REDUCES effect of judder. Watch it again . . .
I get decent panning shots at 60fps, somewhat less at 30fps. 24, 25 or 50 fps result in ugly judder on my 60Hz refresh rate laptop screen.
Hmmmmm...
It's the best answer i've heard so far.. you can't actually trick it, you just have to avoid it or pan it very slow.
Yep, you got it in one!
LOL hilarious and thank you sir
I have a question, I use Cannon 60D at 24fps and 1/50 shutter, it should look like film, but it doesnt, even with color correction and added blur to soften the image and even having added grain and dropping frames to 18 and forcing 180 degree through Force Motion Blur where you can change blur samples. Im missing something, besides actually shooting on Film, because Ive seen videos shot at 30 or 60, but they look like film when they converted them to 24, they have the right motion blur and it looks creamy and dreamy and when I do it, it looks higher than 24. Actually, the camera has 50 shutter and not 48, is that why?
Please help getting the perfect motion blur at 24 and the the frame rate looking like film and not too realistic
I'd have to see the footage I think.
@@sidsquid1 There is one on my channel, with electricity meters that you can check. But i have not uploaded others because of this issue. Im trying to learn
There isn't much motion in it, so you cant tell, so ill have to upload something later
But I did change it to 18fps I think, because 24 looks too smooth for some reason and im not on one of those new 4k monitors with digital smoothing on, its an old LCD that should work fine
@@DethronerX OK
If you shoot at 50fps and then render at a different frame rate will that cause a judder effect in the out put video?
Frame rate conversion is a complex subject, and not one that I claim to be expert in! If you do some Googling you'll find lots of stuff out there - for example:
larryjordan.com/articles/frame-rates-are-tricky-beasts/
The answer to your specific question is "it depends"!
If you're going from 50 to 25fps, the simplest way for software to do this is to delete every other frame. So if the original video was shot at high shutter speed, and was a series of crisp images stuttering at 50 frames per second, the converted result will be exactly the same, but at 25fps, so you'd think the stutter will be twice as noticeable, because each image will now be "shifted" by twice the distance from the last one.
Unless - your software is clever enough to artificially re-introduce the natural blurring that the human eye creates. Check this out, for instance:
www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/video-effects/how-to-add-motion-blur-to-videos/
I could go on. But I'll tell you the best, most definite, and probably fastest way to answer your question: Just try it and see what happens! (And let me know the result ... LOL)
I am puzzled by one aspect of this. When I load video to my computer and it goes into the pictures folder it looks good. But as soon as I import to premiere pro it has jitters. Any ideas on this.
I couldn't say for certain. But when I load videos into Vegas Pro (my choice of editor), I sometimes have to be careful about the "project properties" vs the properties of the video itself. One option in Vegas is to set the project properties to the same as the first video imported. Maybe if you can try something similar in PP to see if it has any effect? Let's face it, it has to be something like that!
Oh, and the other thing I have to watch is what preview settings are set. I can set "good", "better" and "best" viewing qualities. A way to test if it's simply an issue when viewing it in PP is to render it out and see what it looks like after it's "passed through" your editor.
But of course, we should start at the beginning - what is the frame rate and shutter speed of your original video?
@@sidsquid1 thanks for the quick reply. It's video recorded at 60fps with shutter speed of 1/125. I'm going to render a couple of clips and export them to see what happens. I'll also look into the settings. Generally I edit in 1/2 quality. If you don't mind I'll let you know what happens.
@@steveloudon7491 OK. Those settings are the "traditional" 180 degree shutter, AKA "Cinematic", and should look in between stuttered and blurred. If you import to a project with a different frame rate, funny things can happen depending on preview settings, whether forced resampling is on, etc. Too complex to go into here (that's pro talk for "I don't really understand it all either!")
why are you pink?
sunburn...
@@sidsquid1 makes sense
Idk why nobody talks about the easy alternate method which is convert 30fps video to 60. It can work out by most of us!!
Finally someone 🤣
Yep, someone had to do it!
This answers a lot of questions about newer tvs and video games where you pan the camera
Yep
❤️
Answer to juddering panning: Don't pan. Completely useless.
Well, there are times when you might want to. But at least if you understand what's in the video, you won't get caught too badly!
@@sidsquid1 Well owning a drone, the footage is bound to be panning and a lot. There's got to be a way to compensate for the dropped frame every second or so.
I don't understand what you mean - dropped frame?
@@sidsquid1 My panning shots go smoothly for a second, then there's a single frame skip, smooth for a second, a frame skip, and so on. It's just strange it can run smoothly for many frames (recorded and rendered at 29.97 fps), and then misses a frame.
Hmmm, doesn't sound like a panning problem per se - more likely you only notice it because the scene is moving. Even though it's recorded and rendered at 29.97 fps, it smells of resampling/fps conversion, etc. Can you count the frames between each dropout - is it always the same number? I wonder if it's even in the drone itself - ie. is there some conversion taking place internally so that the recorded file has already been processed in some way? I must look at my own Mavic 2 Pro to see if that's a possibillity.