Interesting that the Pudelpointer isn't on the list of top NAVHDA recognized versatile breeds. Over the last 52 years (since 1969) the Pudelpointer has been the fourth most popular breed in the terms of number of dogs registered with NAVHDA. In 2020, the Pudelpointer was third on the list only behind the GSP and a close second Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. I guess the caveat is that the Pudelpointer isn't a recognized breed by the AKC, which from my understanding is by design.
Wow, great point! I should have clarified that these were the most popular NAVHDA recognized breeds (based on AKC registration statistics, which only include AKC breeds, but foundation stock which I think Pudelpointer is included in).
I first met a pudelpointer guiding out at Little Q ranch. I was obsessed with the Dog's striking physicality and demeanor. Definitely an impressive and handsome bird dog.
I didn't make the list!! It's just based on breed registration statistics. Honestly, the more popular a dog gets, the more mainstream folks end up with them as pets. A lot of great dogs are obscure because they are bred for very specific purposes (ie this animal in this terrain). I think Cur's are great; but a versatile hunting dog as defined by NAVHDA means they will point, flush, track and retrieve on land and water. There are dogs that are way more versatile than that definition, but it's just one definition by one entity,
Versatile hunting dogs are a class of dogs with specific members within the class. Curs belong to the hound group, and just as you wouldn’t see a German Wirehair listed among hounds, you won’t see Curs listed among Versatile dogs
When it comes to tracking systems you mustn't skimp. I've had 4 dogtra 2 pathfinders in 4 months and now I've been told that I need a new phone because the compass won't work. Laughed at when I asked for my money back. Bottom line, if you don't want to lose your dog and you'll save money in the long run, buy a Garmin
Great advice. Can't argue with it! I use sport dog brand because for the price point and my close ranging griffs, you can't beat it. But my buddies that run high octane dogs swear by their garmin systems.
Sounds like you don't hunt very much or at least not successfully often with versatile hunting dogs. All of the dogs on this list (and many not) are true "game dogs" versatile in their ability to point, track, and retrieve game on land and water. My Britts, GWPs, Griffs and GSPs all do that. Sorry you haven't had a good experience behind trained dogs.
@bartonoutfitters I had a GWP that was in the top 10 field trial dogs 2 years running with limited campaigns. He was also the best all-around bird dog I've ever heard of, automatically adjusting his distance from ruffled grouse to hunting without any input from me. He was uninterested in anything with fur except feral cats and worthless for small or big game.
So you have been around trained versatile hunting dogs. And one that was specifically trained to ignore fur (a desirable quality when in pursuit of feather) but at the peril say of the rabbit hunter. The key is these dogs are capable (albeit not at field trial level) to be batshit crazy over birds, to tree a squirrel, to track a deer and all three. The drive that causes him to successfully track a deer would in an uncontrolled dog ruin a bird hunt should the dog not be recalled and returned to his work at hand, that being the grouse or quail or dove. The key in keeping this truly versatile hunting dog versatile is in the intercept and recognizance of his handler. If I see a deer jump while hunting with my dog, I will issue a whoa command. Once the deer is out of sight, I recall the dog. The dog noticed the deer, but I did too, and we worked as a team to stay on track.
@@bartonoutfitters What I wanted was the Airedale of a 150 to 100 years ago as described by Palmer. After trying out a few from across the country, I gave up on Airedales. From everything I could find on present day hunting dogs, it seemed the GWP was the closest to the hunting Airedale of 100 years ago, so I went with a pup from a nationally recognized breeder. Boomer was a helluva versatile bird dog and had a perfect score on his NAVHDA natural ability test, but as I found out, an American GWP is significantly different from its ancestor the German Drahthaar
That is very interesting, and I like where all of this is going. For the benefit of folks who read the comments, and bird digging in general, Why the Airedale? My neighbor used to own one. Fine looking dog with even better temperament, but he did not hunt. I have always wondered, in practice, not theory, how the near identical appearing dogs Draht vs GWP, Bohemian Wirehaired Pointing Griffon (Cesky Fousek) vs Griff, and others compare in drive, trainability, health, demeanor, etc. As you have stated, I've spoke to many a folks who say the same thing, they are not the same dog.
They're great dogs and extremely versatile, but by definition of this hunting dog body, they must be bred and trained to reliably hunt, point, flush, track and retrieve game on land and water. All of which labs can do, but their particular sporting category is retriever, and while some labs point, most don't.
Wiemeraner , Gordon setter , Irish setters ? These breeds have been bastardized by the show ring crowd , they’ve taken the hunt out of the dogs . Could be good pets , never see them in the field nor training.
I waited for the right time to reply to this because to be honest I hadn't either. However yesterday I just did my first field day with a gordon setter pup (12 weeks old) named Sadie. Very cautious and laid back style of hunting (similar to my wirehaired pointing griffon at Sadie's age) with a very strong retrieve instinct. She was backing (we started her out solo) after about 5 coveys of planted birds exploded in her face and the pointer we had working with her took the lead. I am not sold on any breed other than the pointers, setters, GSPs, WPGs, GWPs, and brittany dogs, but there is still hope for me to come around.
Interesting that the Pudelpointer isn't on the list of top NAVHDA recognized versatile breeds. Over the last 52 years (since 1969) the Pudelpointer has been the fourth most popular breed in the terms of number of dogs registered with NAVHDA. In 2020, the Pudelpointer was third on the list only behind the GSP and a close second Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. I guess the caveat is that the Pudelpointer isn't a recognized breed by the AKC, which from my understanding is by design.
Wow, great point! I should have clarified that these were the most popular NAVHDA recognized breeds (based on AKC registration statistics, which only include AKC breeds, but foundation stock which I think Pudelpointer is included in).
I first met a pudelpointer guiding out at Little Q ranch. I was obsessed with the Dog's striking physicality and demeanor. Definitely an impressive and handsome bird dog.
I'm surprised the Brittany isn't higher on that list, unless most folks with Britt's opt for AKC
Pudelpointers are more common than Griffs in my NAVHDA chapter
How is the Mountain Cur or the Black Mouth Cur not on this list. They are better and more versatile than any dog on this list.
I didn't make the list!! It's just based on breed registration statistics. Honestly, the more popular a dog gets, the more mainstream folks end up with them as pets. A lot of great dogs are obscure because they are bred for very specific purposes (ie this animal in this terrain).
I think Cur's are great; but a versatile hunting dog as defined by NAVHDA means they will point, flush, track and retrieve on land and water. There are dogs that are way more versatile than that definition, but it's just one definition by one entity,
@@bartonoutfitters I agree but I was just surprised that they didn't make the list. To many people doesn't even know anything about them.
Versatile hunting dogs are a class of dogs with specific members within the class. Curs belong to the hound group, and just as you wouldn’t see a German Wirehair listed among hounds, you won’t see Curs listed among Versatile dogs
The AKC is a political bunch of nonsense.
When it comes to tracking systems you mustn't skimp. I've had 4 dogtra 2 pathfinders in 4 months and now I've been told that I need a new phone because the compass won't work. Laughed at when I asked for my money back. Bottom line, if you don't want to lose your dog and you'll save money in the long run, buy a Garmin
Great advice. Can't argue with it! I use sport dog brand because for the price point and my close ranging griffs, you can't beat it. But my buddies that run high octane dogs swear by their garmin systems.
Griff .
This list is joke!
All of the dogs are bird dogs.
The first 4 breeds and the Brittany are further specialized as bird pointing breeds.
Sounds like you don't hunt very much or at least not successfully often with versatile hunting dogs. All of the dogs on this list (and many not) are true "game dogs" versatile in their ability to point, track, and retrieve game on land and water. My Britts, GWPs, Griffs and GSPs all do that. Sorry you haven't had a good experience behind trained dogs.
@bartonoutfitters I had a GWP that was in the top 10 field trial dogs 2 years running with limited campaigns. He was also the best all-around bird dog I've ever heard of, automatically adjusting his distance from ruffled grouse to hunting without any input from me. He was uninterested in anything with fur except feral cats and worthless for small or big game.
So you have been around trained versatile hunting dogs. And one that was specifically trained to ignore fur (a desirable quality when in pursuit of feather) but at the peril say of the rabbit hunter. The key is these dogs are capable (albeit not at field trial level) to be batshit crazy over birds, to tree a squirrel, to track a deer and all three. The drive that causes him to successfully track a deer would in an uncontrolled dog ruin a bird hunt should the dog not be recalled and returned to his work at hand, that being the grouse or quail or dove.
The key in keeping this truly versatile hunting dog versatile is in the intercept and recognizance of his handler. If I see a deer jump while hunting with my dog, I will issue a whoa command. Once the deer is out of sight, I recall the dog. The dog noticed the deer, but I did too, and we worked as a team to stay on track.
@@bartonoutfitters What I wanted was the Airedale of a 150 to 100 years ago as described by Palmer. After trying out a few from across the country, I gave up on Airedales. From everything I could find on present day hunting dogs, it seemed the GWP was the closest to the hunting Airedale of 100 years ago, so I went with a pup from a nationally recognized breeder. Boomer was a helluva versatile bird dog and had a perfect score on his NAVHDA natural ability test, but as I found out, an American GWP is significantly different from its ancestor the German Drahthaar
That is very interesting, and I like where all of this is going. For the benefit of folks who read the comments, and bird digging in general, Why the Airedale? My neighbor used to own one. Fine looking dog with even better temperament, but he did not hunt.
I have always wondered, in practice, not theory, how the near identical appearing dogs Draht vs GWP, Bohemian Wirehaired Pointing Griffon (Cesky Fousek) vs Griff, and others compare in drive, trainability, health, demeanor, etc.
As you have stated, I've spoke to many a folks who say the same thing, they are not the same dog.
no Labrador retriever!?
They're great dogs and extremely versatile, but by definition of this hunting dog body, they must be bred and trained to reliably hunt, point, flush, track and retrieve game on land and water. All of which labs can do, but their particular sporting category is retriever, and while some labs point, most don't.
Wiemeraner , Gordon setter , Irish setters ? These breeds have been bastardized by the show ring crowd , they’ve taken the hunt out of the dogs . Could be good pets , never see them in the field nor training.
I waited for the right time to reply to this because to be honest I hadn't either. However yesterday I just did my first field day with a gordon setter pup (12 weeks old) named Sadie. Very cautious and laid back style of hunting (similar to my wirehaired pointing griffon at Sadie's age) with a very strong retrieve instinct. She was backing (we started her out solo) after about 5 coveys of planted birds exploded in her face and the pointer we had working with her took the lead.
I am not sold on any breed other than the pointers, setters, GSPs, WPGs, GWPs, and brittany dogs, but there is still hope for me to come around.
Here in Ireland the field bred Irish Setter is used extensively.