@@pokebreederrichard1200 I mean somebody would notice and mention it and then I'm pretty sure first time anyone has the sort of God your Gryffindor anywhere near him it would just so happen to nip his nose off
now i imagine tom riddle running around the castle, telling everyone, in a similar way of that video of Darth vader telling everytone he has children (think it was HITHE)
I feel like something that has been completely overlooked in all these scenarios is that 16 year old Voldemort will not be as strong as 73 year Voldemort. He delved into dark magic after he left school in the main story and rose to power several years later Edit: His age was actually 71 when he died
This is a good point, even if he learned what and how, repeating or improving upon all those to regain that power would likely make things take longer.
I agree. He might have more drive and charisma, but less knowledge and lived experience. So things might not happen as quickly as Ben thinks. I think Riddle also could potentially have different goals, considering the dairy was made before the gaunt ring. He hasn't had the same punch to the gut about his parents yet, which seemed pretty foundational to his motivations and hatred towards muggles. Sure, before that he disliked them from his time in the orphanage and thought himself better than them, but he also thought himself better than everybody. It was learning about his parents that seemed to make it a true vendetta. All we know about Riddle is that he had a megalomaniac's lust for power, which could still take him any number of directions
He was still just as smart and talented though. It’s not a stretch at all to say he was already above and beyond any other student ever to go through hogwarts except dumbledore, even before he graduated. I agree it would take longer to rediscover all the dark magic he learned, but he managed to make a horcrux in highschool when he killed the Riddles before any of that happened
10:05 Also at least for the first situation, what about Neville? Yeah the prophecy would have played out with either Tom or harry killing the other, but then would that mean a new prophecy might have popped up with Neville stepping in as the hero considering he was the other possible candidate for the original prophecy?
I was thinking that too, but technically this part of soul was detached before Voldemort attempted to kill Harry. Given that things like knowledge and power seemingly wouldn't have passed from the Voldemort that "died" to the diary Tom Riddle's resurrection, I don't think the protection from Lily would work either.
If Pettigrew always had Voldemorts wand, does that mean it was stashed somewhere at the Burrow for years? I can absolutely imagine a young Fred and George finding it under a floor board and playing with it before they were old enough to get their own, never realising who it belonged to.
I think Diary Riddle would have been less obsessed with killing Harry himself, so when he realized the twin core issue he would have just had someone else do it. Being younger means less stuck in your ways and more willing to think outside the box.
@@clayhunter2572 He still planned to split his soul, the Dairy was actually the first of that plan. He might not have specific intension to kill Harry but one murder's as good as the next for Horcruxes. Dumbledore's theory was only just that a theory and one based on Voldemort's narcissism, not a magical law.
i might just be going off the movie, but diary young tom said he wasnt interested in killing muggles and his new target was harry.. voldys soul would still carry on with his desires despite age.
@@RyanYoxo my point is he would have been less stubborn about having to kill him himself after seeing that the wand core issue was screwing him over and just ordering one of his followers to do it would have immediately solved the problem
In the first scenario, there's another sad circumstance. When Tom leaves the Chamber, he finds Ron and memory-wiped Lockhart, so he obviously kills them, too.
A nanny would raise him and Harry might feel resentment towards Dumbledore due to his lack of involvement Edit: he would be best friends with Ableforth though
20:12 Should be pointed out Dumbledore is basically the most gifted wizard EVER and has the Elder Wand. Go to a secluded spot and summon up Fiend Fyre. I imagine controlling that would be child's play for Albus.
@@patrickhackett7881 not if you have the right ownership. The whole point of the elder wand is to perform extraordinary feats, and we saw Albus control fire in the half blood prince, plus the 5th film as well
Also, can we talk about how Ronald Weasley has the second sight? In the first divination lesson when Trelawny made Ronald read Harry’s Tea leaves Ron states that will suffer greatly but be happy about it jokingly…. That is a great synapses of the third book. Harry suffered throughout the entire year but by he end was overjoyed to find that the source of a lot of that suffering, the threat of Sirius black.. was actually his godfather. Making me believe that Ron has a talent for divination.
If a young Tom showed up in front of Voldemort, the elder would undoubtedly celebrate the fact that a younger him is now at his disposal to assist him in all things dark & deadly.
my thoughts are with Tom's blatant narcissism, it probably wouldn't result in a proper fight(though if it did, my money's on the fully formed guy), but I doubt that he would take orders even from himself, especially not a version that failed to even kill a baby. so young Tom would probably Take command if he had to, but older Tom would not make his rule pleasant
I love this! Chamber of Secrets has always been one of my favorites and it never gets much attention. I love the theories you guys come up with. Always an interesting and fun watch.
it always weirded me out that film harry touches the sword of gryffindor at the blade (in the film chamber of secrets). I mean it would only take the tiniest cut for him to be poisoned again.
Grabbing swords by the blade is actually common, even in combat, it’s know as half-swording. You can even grab it with both hands and use the guard as a blunt weapon against armour. The only time it cuts is if you glide against the edge, holding it doesn’t actually cut you
Like hard would it have been to grab the handle and lay the blade on his hand? Why risk it? Malfoy: " FAMOUS Harry Potter can't even grab a sword without risking death".
I don't know if Harry would have had the emotional maturity of book Harry in Deathly Hallows because the main plot of the story is Harry's life growing up which means that if Harry never goes through what he goes through during his 7 yrs at Hogwarts, he wouldn't be as understanding of love.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the instances of the basilisk petrifying people were all when they saw it through a reflection, with the exception of seeing it through a ghost (and already being dead, but that is less of a concern) So I don't expect normal glasses would be sufficient to prevent death, especially given Myrtle was wearing glasses and clearly died.
One of them was through a camera lens. Which, depending on the model of camera, may be no different than looking at it through any other piece of glass.
Does Myrtle wear glasses in the book (cause the films aren’t canon)? If she does then that would prove that wearing glasses wouldn’t protect a person from death from the basilisk.
@@phiefer3 it wasn't the lens of the camera that saved colin, it was the mirrors. If it was the lens, then the film would have been fine inside the camera, complete with a picture of the basilisk
This has always been one of my favourite theories to think about - I would love to see how similarly and differently Diary!Riddle and Older!Voldie go about their plans. Perhaps even how their worldviews/mindsets differ, considering that the former is only a half a soul who also hasn’t created any further Horcruxes…
I think that riddle would join the ministry and control it very quickly but subtly take over. I also think sirius would escape by the start of summer that year because he'd know voldemort would be after harry and the death eaters imprisoned with him would alert him through celebration as soon as Riddle summoned them. I imagine Fudge would put the sudden joy of the prisoners down to someone managing to escape and his Handsome, Young, freshly graduated new junior minister would tell him what a brilliant deduction that was and he should not just put a price on sirius head but also move harry from his mothers blood to somewhere much more vulnerable. Perhaps the leaky cauldron where he himself is staying. I'm sure the boys would get along, learn a lot from each other. I bet voldemort would enjoy that kind of game as he takes control. I doubt he'd attack harry until he's ready for the world to know he's back
I always thought that it was Harry gaining all 3 Hallows that granted him the ability to choose whether he wanted to continue dying or go back and live. You know, literally being the Master of Death concept being applied.
Maybe, but also maybe not. The whole legend of the hallows is probably a myth, Dumbledore doesn’t believe the encounter with Death really happened and that the Peverel brothers created their hallows themselves. Being master of all 3 hallows might not actually do anything special. It’s likely that it’s only actual effect in Harry and Voldemort’s final two encounters was that the Elder Wand was not loyal to Voldemort and was instead loyal to Harry, so any spells Voldemort tried to cast on Harry wouldn’t work right.
@@kellysouter4381 The secret is that they're not actually that special. The Invisibility Cloak is like normal Invisibility Cloaks but cannot be summoned and doesn't fade over time. The Resurrection Stone can summon the souls of the dead but not bring them back to life. Not that much of a stretch for normal HP magic since ghosts, Horcruxes, and the Veil exists. The Elder Wand is more powerful than most wands but is so finicky that it didn't let Grindelwald defeat Dumbledore. The Hallows aren't special. They're mundane
@@hachiko42 I know the Elder Wand wouldn't have killed him if he didn't want to die. If Voldemort tried to kill Harry against his will, the Avada Kedarva would be as ineffective as the Cruciatus curses were
@@kellysouter4381 Just because something exists and is powerful, doesn't mean that the legends about those things are true. Yes the items are real, yes they are uniquely powerful items. But it's still entirely possible that they were simply created by the Peverel brothers, just as so many other powerful magical items were created by other powerful wizards.
This should be your next multi part series like Dumbledore's Big Plan or the Harry in Slytherin series. Go book by book and explore what would change if Harry never found the Chamber.
I've one. What happens to the series if the Weasley's don't win the lottery. Sirius doesn't try to escape. Peter doesn't flee the weasleys and stays a rat, doesn't find Voldemort.
4:29 Why would Lily's protection stop working? Can you imagine what it would be like to have all 3 hallows? It might be like Link at the end of a game with the Master Sword, 20 hearts, and all the relics of that particular game.
In the Goblet of Fire Wortmatil uses Harry's blood to bring Voldemore back. Because he used Harry's blood, Voldemort is essentially acting as a horcrux for Harry because of Lily's protection. Because that wouldn't have happened yet, Voldemort returning in full form from the diary means that Harry doesn't have that protection unless he is at Privet Drive since his aunt lives there.
@@joykeel3332 It's also why Dumbledore reacted the way he did after Harry told him what happened in the graveyard. Suddenly, Harry had a way to survive the sacrifice he had to make to make Voldemort killable. Dumbledore, of course, couldn't tell Harry as the sacrifice had to be genuine in order to work (granting the sacrifice protection on everyone and so effectively nullifying Voldemorts power so that someone might actually be able to kill him; probably Dumbledore expected himself to be that person until found out he was going to die).
@@joykeel3332 He had the protection from Voldemort the year before, and the reason he needed the acting like a horcrux was because he took the blood so the protection itself stopped working when not in Privet Drive
@@MordechaiHershoffyoutube im not sure what point you're trying to make but the protection only ever worked when he was at Privet Drive, which wouldn't allow harm to come to him by Voldemort as long as he could call that place home. It also protected him from being touched by Voldmort. When his blood was used to bring Voldemort back to full form, Voldemort could touch him but he himself couldn't kill Harry because he was now tethered to life through his blood. So if Tom Riddle is brought back then he could kill Harry and he would just die because Tom never used Harry's blood for his "rebirth ".
@@joykeel3332 In my opinion when not in Privet Drive Voldemort also couldn't harm just like he couldn't touch, and after he took the blood then he only couldn't get to Harry in Privet Drive , but could everywhere else as far as blood protection was concerned, but still couldn't because Voldemort was like a Horcrux to Harry
I would love to see your guys theory on what would happen if Snape was lying about being in love with Lily! Was he really working for Voldemort the whole time, or was it all for his own agenda? Was he covering his tracks because he foresaw the change in the tide of battle and misled Harry with his memories? Was Dumbledore projecting his own experience with unrequited love on Snape and that's why he trusted him?
@@agustinfranco0 It's a "what if" situation. Snape knew he was dying when he gave that information to Harry-in fact, he had that information for well over a year without telling anyone. What if his reason for finally divulging the information was selfishly wanting his name cleared posthumously? Or he'd been hedging his bets dithering between siding with Dumbledore or Voldemort, depending on who he thought would win? Also, correct me if you have a reference, but I don't think it was ever confirmed in the books that Lily was associated with a doe in anyway except inferred because her husband was a stag. It's just a thought experiment, I'm not saying its canon.
@@janealroberts7585 He still gave Harry the Sword of Gryffindor during the time of Voldemort's reign. It is unlikely anyone would bet on a 16 year old, with no wand, no way to destroy horcruxes, and an incomplete magic education, defeating Voldemort at this point. If Snape was just playing for the winning team, it would not make sense for him to help Harry Potter at this point. Not to mention stopping other students being punished by the other death eaters, if his allegiance was not to the "light side" was not sincere. As more if there is any clear mention of Lily's representing the doe I am not sure. I think the clearest thing in canon is Dumbledore connecting it to lily.
You can't mislead someone with your memories - at least not intentionally. Memories aren't the same thing as thoughts. False memories are a thing - but by necessity, because of how your brain files them, you are not AWARE that they're false. The moment your brain files that away as "memory", you are convinced it's true and it actually happened. Because that's what memories are supposed to be - real events that actually happened. Your brain does not have a separate setting for "events that we're putting in memory that we know aren't true", because that's a lie; not a memory. Your brain doesn't like lying, which is why it's so hard to do it well - so it doesn't keep your lies in the same place as your real memories. You can remember what the DETAILS of a lie are - but that's different, and Harry would be able to tell it was a lie, because Snape would know it was a lie.
Wouldn’t Harry still have his mother’s love protecting him at this point? He only relied on his blood inside Voldemort feeding the magic after it was ‘broken’ leaving Privet Dr.
I think it was a one-time protection that serves when he is with his family members of bloodline (aunt Petunia), but not insie the school.... My Idea is that even if Harry doesen't feel necesserary to destroy the Diary, phoenix could still heel him, and, sencing bad wibes coming from Voldemort, grab Harry, (mby Ginny also), Ron and Lockhart to Dumbledore.
@@lindamazule2289 The protection charm from Lilly was durable as it saved Harry from Quirrel in first year. It last at least until Harry is 17/18 as long as he lives with blood relatives.
Erm .... slight problem with the glasses ..... Moaning Myrtle has glasses of which I'm pretty sure she would have been wearing when she died to still have them on as a ghost.
I also don't think glasses protect. It is only stated that looking at a reflection protects one from death, but if one is looking through glasses it isn't a reflection one sees but the real thing. Only the gase is slightly warped through the lenses. And since Colins camera is quite old it functions via a mirror so what he sees is also just a reflection.
13:34 why would diary Tom use Nagini? if he wanted to use a snake I think the giant basilisk which he used to make his first horcrux, helped him come back to life, was owned by a Hogwarts founder, and is inherently much more powerful than Nagini would make more sense for diary Tom
Its highly unlikely but I would love it if Tom Riddle also brought back Voldemort prime and they work together. Two pieces of your soul each possessing your full power, that would be really freaking cool. @SuperCarlinBrothers make a what if surrounding that, even if it doesn't make sense!! Pretty pls
I think in the second scenario Harry's sacrifice gives the protection of love to everyone in dumbledore's army. The very next person to stand up to Voldemort was Neville. Who also fits the prophecy. It stands to reason Voldemort tries the killing curse on Neville, it rebounds, and if there's still a horcrux, it marks Neville as his equal all over again.
Tom would have less ability than the 40ish year older version, because he doesn't have 40 years of learning dark magic. Even if he asks his older self for info, it's not the same as learning it over time. That might even things out a little for Harry/Dumbledore.
Unless there is a reintegration, in which he would look much younger while having all of his old knowledge. Further, it would likely be the older and more wiley version that would have the necessary knowledge and so we would have a nearly 80 year-old Voldemort inside a 16 year-old body this version of events places him at an enormous advantage.
I feel there might be an argument for Tom to actually be at least somewhat stronger though, considering Voldemort went through a lot to come back; his body and mind might be weaker than this Tom, albeit more knowledgeable. Tho Tom learned things pretty quickly for his age, wouldn't be surprising this would simply be a stronger, prime, version of Voldemort. This Tom wouldn't have his soul split so much either, hence making him stronger. Also, I can't imagine those entire 40 years were spent learning/practicing dark magic. He *is* pretty arrogant (enough to not deem training as necessary for himself, at least not after already mastering a spell, which he does learn and master magic pretty quick, he *was* basically a prodigy)
If Tom comes back in year 2, would Sirius still escape from Azkaban? Peter would probably leave Ron before they go to Egypt, meaning Sirius would never see the news of Peter still living in hiding. I'm sure Sirius would eventually get out as the news of Peter working for Voldemort gets out (whether by escape or release), but I don't think it would happen in year 3.
I suspect that as soon as Voldemort came back, he’d free all the death eaters who were imprisoned, and if that’s the case, Peter might ask Voldemort for a favor and have Sirius killed right there. If Sirius, upon learning of Voldemort’s return, escaped and tried to seek out say Lupin or Dumbledore to explain the situation and be safe, which would be easier in this timeline as it’s been established that he failed to kill Peter in the first place, I think he’d be protected by the Order, and Grimmauld place would still be their base of operations.
I was wondering if Harry being a Horcrux would’ve given him that second life like it would in the original timeline but I guess even if it did, Riddle would’ve probably made absolutely sure that Harry was dead before leaving the chamber. Given that he knew Harry had thwarted death as a child I doubt Riddle would want to make the same mistake in underestimating Harry like Voldy Prime did.
That’s 2 Gryffindor relics - the hat was Gryffindor’s to begin with. If it was possible to do, Hogwarts castle itself would be a better horcrux than the hat - much harder to destroy and easier to possess students from because of the great affection that so many students and alumni had for it, which would give the building a means to build the emotional closeness required for a possession.
What happens in the first scenario: Ginny dies in the Chamber, the Voldie kills Harry, creating the Horcrux of the Sword of Gryffindor. Ron and Lockhart also die, by Voldie’s hands, creating the Horcrux of the Sorting Hat from Ron. Pettigrew (Scabbers) also returns to his master. Sirius never escapes Azkaban, unless someone like Dumbledore or Lupin get info about Pettigrew’s return. Barty Jr likely still returns, perhaps no need to take over Moody’s identity.
The diary horcrux said that killing mudbloods doesn't matter to him anymore. Does that just mean going after them personally is beneath him? Or does that indicate some change in his thinking?
If I remember correctly from the book and movie, Tom told Harry that Ginny "poured herself into the diary " and would talk about the "boy who lived". The more diary Tom learned about Harry and Harry's destruction of the "greatest sorcerer in the world ", the more that Tom wanted to target Harry rather than "mudbloods "
I Figured the disembodied Volly would 'possess' Tom Riddle. Since they're parts of the same soul, they should have both been able to share a vessel, and Tom would get all the skill and knowledge... win/win
I thought so too, but I love and agree with the way SCB explains why that wouldn't happen. For the two parts of the soul to inhabit the same vessel, Voldemort would have to feel remorse. Without doing so, I imagine that trying to possess the same vessel would greatly weaken the vessel and the fractured souls.
I have seriously thought about this so many times. I always thought the diary, riddle would be stronger because he has more of his soul and could beat voldemort.
But the book explicitly states that the biggest part of Voldis soul is inside Voldi prime (prime+6 hocruxes = 7 parts, not counting the unintentional Harry)
when you go back and think about it, why weren't the attacks a bigger deal and dealt with right away. Think of this, why did everyone have to stay petrified the whole year? We know they are waiting on the Mandrakes to mature so they can make the restorative draft but are those the only mandrakes in the world? Does Hogwarts not have any other way to get the needed ingredients? Surely the Ministry itself has some way to procure what was needed in a few days at most. Saint Mungos might have had the potion or needed ingredients.
Given the rarity of the affliction, it is very likely that they wouldn't have that kind of stuff on hand, and neither would anyone else. I mean, why would you produce and store the cure to a curse that hasn't affected anyone in decades?
@@SgtSupaman We have vaccines and cures to diseases that haven't been a concern here in the US for decades stockpiled just in case. Same idea really. And who knows where else in the world petrification might be a problem.
Voldemort meets Voldemort from diary: Voldemort "you know what this means" Voldemort "I do" *later* Young Voldemort *enters room* "ah I forgot my wand" Death eaters "oh god, not again" Old Voldemort *walks in* "you have no idea how long that took"
“He couldn’t do it because he’s too recognizable…” If only there was some magical way to change your appearance that he could use to get into the ministry of magic… no… that’s crazy. What would he do, drink some kind of magic potion to pose as an employee to walk into the ministry without question and steal something in broad daylight?!
Ben and J, can you guys make a video about how Wengardium Leviosa is actually an OP spell. Like, why aren't people using it to lift a wand out of someone's hand, or at least throw off their aim.
Imagine in a world where Diary Riddle came back and Voldemort Prime still returned, when the two Voldemorts shout AVADA KEDAVRA, Harry pulls out both his own wand *and* the Elder Wand and ends up dual-wanding the two of them.
@@andromeda7758I could honestly see 16 year old Voldemort trying to manipulate Harry to help him kill his older version by convincing him that he has a chance to change or something like that but his older version is too far gone I know Tom Riddle would never change even when he was 16 but he could act like it or something to gain a false sense of trust from Harry.
The idea of Tom using the sorting hat as a horcrux interests me. That strongly implies that it would be able to, you know, speak. And I doubt Voldemort would appreciate being demoted. He might even want payback on this young upstart soul shard. I'm too tired to think through that train of thought at the moment, but its food for thought.
I have some what if ideas for you What if Sirius made it to harry before haggis after his parents died (Sirius lives all the way through) What if Ginny apperated away from the wedding with the golden trio What if dumbledore lived(doesn’t died at all) Feel free to change and edit them as you wish if you want to use them I’ll send more on the next what if except the first one will be in my comment every time(I was so disappointed when he died because he’s my favourite character )
You’re saying that Voldemort killing Harry would stop anyone else from killing him, but when Harry is alive he is the only one who can kill Voldemort, anyone can when Harry’s dead. This is like if no one could kill Harry after The Deathly Hallows.
I was asking my self for weeks and weeks. Could there theoreticly be like 7-8 Voldemords at the same time ? (8 if the one living in Quirrel came back too)... Would they merch bodys ? Would they try to kill each other?
I love these what-if's! I'd love for the "Harry never found the Chamber" to be a big series like the other ones. I will say that I think Harry would find a way to still beat Voldemort in that scenario but I'm not sure how.
The glasses don't save anyone from death. Myrtle wore glasses. She looked at the basilisk and died. And also, Tom Riddle (the 16y/o one) would refuse to have anything to do with Voldy Prime, fearing that he would lose his nose too.
Now I wonder, could Harry's wand (super powered gold flames) defeat Voldemort, even if Voldemort was the master of the elder wand? Because it sorta seems like 2 unstoppable forces
None of them knew about the elder wand yet. At worst, Harry's wand could serve Voldemort as any casual wand, or It could recognise someone else using him, so it would make some awkward spells (a phoenix wand can act at his own accord sometimes, you know), or, if Harry uses the sword, it could imbude any spells throwen at him. The golden flames happened only afer the fourth book, and in the small fight scene in the begininng of deathly Hollows Harry's wand recognises his enemy and sibling, Voldemort's wand, and reacts accordingly. And that is because in the end of the fourth book, the wands met each other, and what happpened was the strongest one made the other Wand to puke out it's latest spells. So in the next fight, the wand recognised it's sbling enemy not only in the wand, but in the person (Voldemort) Himself. In The chamber of secrets there is no possibility of that, because Voldemort uses Harry's wand and his wand is nowhere to be seen. There is like "I am the God now, I have the power, and you can do nothing about it". And, in my opinion, in this moment, when Harry defeated the Basilisk and slowly died from basilisk venom in his arm, phoenix Fox saved him and carried him (mby with the dead body of Gnny) to Dumbledore, together with Ron and Lockhart. Like, I imagine Voldemort throwing some spells at the phoenix, carrying away Ginny's dead body and Hary, but it would eventually lead them back to Dumbledore, where he would probably make a new plan. Keping in mind the original Voldemort didn't have his own body at this time, he probably went along with his Ideas about Triwizard tournament and Harry's blood and everything would turn out as it did, except voldemort II would try to learn everythig that had happened after the diary in mby a year,, so voldemort I should have to prepare to protect himself and stilll get the boy.
@@lindamazule2289 no sorry, I mean like in the main story, completely hypothetical, post goblet of fire, harry with the holly wand, voldemort master of the elder wand who wins
Ok, let's make It two years from chamber to the Graveyard. Voldemort I get's the winner of triwizard tournament (Harry, let's just imagine Cederic was hindered by something and didn't get to the cup in time), revieves himself through servants flesh, Fathers bone and Enemy's blood. And Let's make it that now the other VOldemort realises everything and while following his dad's forgotten past returns to the Littlehangelton. Harry escapes through the triwizards cup. What does the two Voldemorts do?
@@rhyswheldon9176 well, Harry Can not die, because his mothers life in Voldemorts veins teethers him to life. But Voldemort Can die, if you mean the final battle, because all his horruxes are destroyed. If the fight happens before all hocruxes are destroyed, Voldemort could still come back later, but he still could not kill Harry, because he is keeping him alive BY his own existance. That is the meaning of "neither Can live while the other survives". If all his horcruxes are destroyed before the fight, Harry wins. If not, Harry lives to fight another day. The only way for Voldemort to achieve his goal, is to make someone else kill Harry, because that would totally work... 🤯
I love these what if theories! They are that small thing we have all wondered, but so rarely openly discuss (i.e. what if diary Voldemort had fully materialised). I’d always thought that student Riddle/ Voldemort could have been dealt with by Dumbledore (or even Harry with Lily’s sacrifice still in play). He is not the fully formed dark lord that we see later in the books. That said, the prospect of two Voldemorts is quite terrifying and the younger version could certainly have developed and grown stronger. But again, there is the caveat that I’m not sure older (i.e. less percentage soul Voldy - depending on how you think the soul split for each Horcrux works) would have wanted competition from his younger self. Do we think they would have worked together? Surely old Voldy would have wanted to trap young Voldy in a horcrux again if he is the largest piece of his soul tethering him to life. Alternatively, younger Voldy might have thought this would be the case and destroyed old Voldemort (as old Voldy is arguably a very small percentage of his soul after all the horcux soul splits) rather than bringing old Voldy back to full power. Or are we all just overthinking this way too much and more than JK ever did. 😂
Awesome video! I absolutely love this idea you came up with. The chamber of secrets has always been one of my top favorites in the film franchise. There was also so much mystery surrounding Tom Riddle that the movie really didn’t go that far into until many years later in the flashback scenes through Harry’s teacher’s memories but that was really all we got throughout the movies so I’m glad you went into so much detail with him here even if it was all hypothetical. I would love for Warner Brothers to make a movie about Tom Riddle. That would be awesome.
What? Lily's protection doesn't *only* live on if Voldemort uses his blood. He still has that protection for 4 more years until he turns 17, regardless. Tom can't use Avada Kedavra on Harry if he comes back. Period.
You're thinking of the protective magic that Dumbledore puts on Harry by making him live at the Dursleys. That's the one that breaks once he turns 17. There's no age limit on lily's protection
I assume they were all basically a mindless being like the one we saw when Harry was in King's Cross. All except Diary Tom who was made with this specific mission as a potential backup plan.
I would like to argue that glasses don't protect you from death by basilisk eyes as Moaning Myrtle wears glasses and she still died....and was the only one. But yes, more people should wear glasses, it makes some of us looks good
Video idea?? Your knight bus video is one of my favorite “explanations “ and it made me think twice about the Wesley’s car. The fact that it thinks makes we want a video about it actually being a thestral lol
@Beastmode-zj2gt It's possible Voldemort lied about only the heir being able to control it (out of arrogance, pride and to not give Harry an advantage) and that any parselmouth can. Either way, Harry has a piece of Voldemort (the true heir of Slytherin) inside of him, which didnt even die off with Basilisk venom thanks to Fawkes. If Trelawney can correctly "predict" Harry's Horcrux's date of birth instead of his own, the same rules should apply.
It is possible to write the story in a way such that Harry would win, even if he didn't found the chamber of secrets. Just like you did with the Harry in Slitherin saga.
I think this might be a good topic for your next "What if" series. I'd love to see how this could have played out and how it'd change Dumbledore's big plan. :D
Being that the piece that is Voldy prime is sentient, do we really believe he would allow himself to be placed/made into a horcrux? I think it’s more likely that piece would attempt to possess his younger self. Idk how successful he would be but I def feel like it wouldn’t be as simple as simply making prime a horcrux
Presumably all the pieces of his soul are sentient. Each time he makes a horocrux he is willingly putting a version of himself into it. Prime Voldemort would just be repeating what parts have him have been doing all along.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding or maybe it's been so long since I've read the books I have forgotten but Harry's mother's protection kept the Voldemort from killing him as a baby and the whole reason Voldemort had to have some of Harry's blood was to overcome that protection. So if I understand correctly if he doesn't come back in the graveyard and doesn't take in Harry's blood then Harry should still have his mother's protection so if Voldemort tries to use the killing curse on him wouldn't that killing curse rebound against him and disembodied Tom Riddle like it did Voldemort the first time? I just don't see how Voldemort could actually kill Harry himself without taking in his blood.
It depends, I mean, that version of Voldemort *didnt* try to kill Harry and be stopped by his mother's sacrifice, would the protection still register him as the same person? Would he even still be safe at the Dursly's, as the protection he gets from being at his mother's relatives was tied into the sacrifice? Like, could Riddlemort nit just walk up to his house like the Weasleys with their flying car?
@@danielled8665 Riddlemort? I love that, that is exactly what he should be called. I don't know, I assume that the love protection would apply to all possible Voldemorts. I think that if Riddlemort tried to use the killing curse on Harry it would rebound and disembody him just like Voldemort prime. But who knows for sure.
Probably a stretch, but could Mad-Eye Moody have been able to help find the Chamber of Secrets? I mean, the eye could see through solid matter, it probably would have allowed him to see the detail of a snake on the faucet from several floors down. and the ghosts in the castle could have told him about Moaning Myrtle's death since one of their own (Nearly-Headless Nick) had been attacked already. That way, it would make sense that he'd decide to inspect an abandoned girl's bathroom. Claiming to have smelled Polyjuice Potion near that room too could have given him a reason as well.
What just happened with the recall of memory about the chamber of secrets movie?? Fawkes comes over to heal Harry with tears AFTER HARRY STABBED THE DIARY, NOT BEFORE. Harry stabs diary, Tom Riddle dies, Ginny wakes up, THEN Fawkes comes to heal Harry with tears........does anybody else notice this? Is this another case where the movie shows it differently from the books?
My favourite part about this particular theory is that Rowling has actually said that if Diary!Riddle had been brought back, he would have been stronger than Voldemort was in canon. So it's got at least part of an official answer.
@@adammartinez8061 possibly. All things considered, Dumbledore himself may end up becoming reluctant to fight Voldemort if he recognises that the new Voldemort is his better. Though I don't imagine that would last forever - eventually Voldemort would force Dumbledore's hand and make him fight him. In such a case, I could see Dumbledore intentionally passing the Elder Wand to someone else so Voldemort doesn't become its master.
Hello, resident self proclaimed Tom Riddle/Voldemort expert here with a knowledge of 20 years of fan theories, character dissections and fanfics. Great job on the video, a lot of fans like to speculate on this spot for canon divergence. Personally, I love the idea that a young Tom Riddle would have decided on a political route for a takeover after finding out about his original downfall. I could theorize about this fictional villain for hours with you. From how he possibly hates his birthday, not only because it's a mark of aging, but because the fireworks for New Year's could remind him of the London bombings. I could talk about him being barefoot due to sensory issues from being a wraith. I could talk about his bad relationship with food due to the shortages from the war. How about his travels to Africa and discovering ancient magics from first civilizations. Literally...I have read thousands of fics and theories on him, and have written essays on him myself. There is so much lost potential with him. I have joked for years that I could right 7 novels on just him. -UncleUndead of Team Rammyz
@@anniex8651 depends what you are into. I'm a bit embarrassed to admit, but some of the best fics involving him and theories or character explorations, come from fics where he is in a relationship with Harry. That being said, Anything by ObsidianPen is helmed as the best of the best, and I usually point people in that direction if they are ok with the shipping. Harry tends to be the one in most fics that is able to connect with Tom in ways he can't connect with himself. There are fics that go very deep into this, as well as drop into the political state of the wizarding world.
Another good theory to explore is various canon divergencies where Voldemort discovers Harry is a horcrux and what he does proceeding that. Like, if Tom sensed it in CoS and realized he was a fellow horcrux. If Voldemort realized it in the graveyard, or in the Ministry. Then going off of each of those into wildly different scenarios and time lines.
@@KindaSpookyMedia Thank you. No you are exactly right, don't worry!! (btw you can delete the previous comment, if you don't want to leave it here in the comment section) I have been currently on a Harry is Master of Death and Time Travel binge and they are all TRHP if you want I can drop some of them for you
If Diary Riddle came back, I think he would immediately celebrate the fact that he has a nose.
But would he know that he loses his nose?
That version always had a nose
He’s be picking it for days
@@pokebreederrichard1200 I mean somebody would notice and mention it and then I'm pretty sure first time anyone has the sort of God your Gryffindor anywhere near him it would just so happen to nip his nose off
now i imagine tom riddle running around the castle, telling everyone, in a similar way of that video of Darth vader telling everytone he has children (think it was HITHE)
I feel like something that has been completely overlooked in all these scenarios is that 16 year old Voldemort will not be as strong as 73 year Voldemort. He delved into dark magic after he left school in the main story and rose to power several years later
Edit: His age was actually 71 when he died
This is a good point, even if he learned what and how, repeating or improving upon all those to regain that power would likely make things take longer.
Adult voldamort is a ghost and not strong at all
I agree. He might have more drive and charisma, but less knowledge and lived experience. So things might not happen as quickly as Ben thinks.
I think Riddle also could potentially have different goals, considering the dairy was made before the gaunt ring. He hasn't had the same punch to the gut about his parents yet, which seemed pretty foundational to his motivations and hatred towards muggles. Sure, before that he disliked them from his time in the orphanage and thought himself better than them, but he also thought himself better than everybody. It was learning about his parents that seemed to make it a true vendetta. All we know about Riddle is that he had a megalomaniac's lust for power, which could still take him any number of directions
He was still just as smart and talented though. It’s not a stretch at all to say he was already above and beyond any other student ever to go through hogwarts except dumbledore, even before he graduated. I agree it would take longer to rediscover all the dark magic he learned, but he managed to make a horcrux in highschool when he killed the Riddles before any of that happened
10:05
Also at least for the first situation, what about Neville? Yeah the prophecy would have played out with either Tom or harry killing the other, but then would that mean a new prophecy might have popped up with Neville stepping in as the hero considering he was the other possible candidate for the original prophecy?
Not to mention the luck they had with Lockhart grabbing Ron’s wand instead of Harry’s.
This is a good argument but it might be possible that Harry, having quidditch reflexes, would be able to avoid it from being taken.
@@zenbladejs I’m down for this solution. It would’ve been cool to see Harry quick reflex disarm him
Thats the payoff for showing Ron's faulty wand
One thing you’re forgetting: without Harry‘s blood Voldemort can’t touch him so Harry can again hug him to death like he did with Quirrel
I was thinking that too, but technically this part of soul was detached before Voldemort attempted to kill Harry. Given that things like knowledge and power seemingly wouldn't have passed from the Voldemort that "died" to the diary Tom Riddle's resurrection, I don't think the protection from Lily would work either.
@@hyperspark2360 I'm not so sure. If it would work why would riddle in the diary be able to take Harry inside. Wouldn't that harm him/cause him pain?
@@poxidog Harry and Voldemort spend a lot of time in each others heads, so answer is Harry’s scar would hurt which it did
Will kinda hard to hug him to death when riddle just uses avada kadavra fron 15 meters.
Why would he let him do this tho
If Pettigrew always had Voldemorts wand, does that mean it was stashed somewhere at the Burrow for years? I can absolutely imagine a young Fred and George finding it under a floor board and playing with it before they were old enough to get their own, never realising who it belonged to.
Maybe he had a vault at Gringots he stored it at.
No, the Voldemort's wand was still in the ruins of the Potter's house, where only a rat could find it.
I think Diary Riddle would have been less obsessed with killing Harry himself, so when he realized the twin core issue he would have just had someone else do it. Being younger means less stuck in your ways and more willing to think outside the box.
Diary Riddle hasn't heard the prophecy so he certainly wouldn't
@@clayhunter2572 He still planned to split his soul, the Dairy was actually the first of that plan. He might not have specific intension to kill Harry but one murder's as good as the next for Horcruxes. Dumbledore's theory was only just that a theory and one based on Voldemort's narcissism, not a magical law.
i might just be going off the movie, but diary young tom said he wasnt interested in killing muggles and his new target was harry.. voldys soul would still carry on with his desires despite age.
@@clayhunter2572 No Riddle has actually heard the prophecy. Only reports about it and even then just a part.
@@RyanYoxo my point is he would have been less stubborn about having to kill him himself after seeing that the wand core issue was screwing him over and just ordering one of his followers to do it would have immediately solved the problem
In the first scenario, there's another sad circumstance. When Tom leaves the Chamber, he finds Ron and memory-wiped Lockhart, so he obviously kills them, too.
Half of that is definitely a sad circumstance.
@@lunaitc Lockhart dying is sad, but who cares about Ron
I mean ron is useless and lets Hermione free so go on baldy
@@MordechaiHershoffyoutube the second main character?
@@avatar5023 It's a supercarlinbrother joke, they love Lockhart and are Hermione Harry shippers
A what-if suggestion I'd love to see tackled by you guys is...: "What-if Dumbledore Raised Harry instead of the Dursleys?"
This!!
harry beats voldemort for good in book 1, or dies as a child because Dumby keeps monsters in random rooms of the house
Dumbledore would have to retire from his positions.
A nanny would raise him and Harry might feel resentment towards Dumbledore due to his lack of involvement
Edit: he would be best friends with Ableforth though
ooo YES
20:12 Should be pointed out Dumbledore is basically the most gifted wizard EVER and has the Elder Wand. Go to a secluded spot and summon up Fiend Fyre. I imagine controlling that would be child's play for Albus.
The Elder Wand might just make the Fiendfyre stronger and harder to control.
@@patrickhackett7881 not if you have the right ownership. The whole point of the elder wand is to perform extraordinary feats, and we saw Albus control fire in the half blood prince, plus the 5th film as well
@@andreijohnson3953 That's not said to be Fiendfyre.
@@patrickhackett7881 So he's gifted in it in the first place and is likely to be able to control it
@@MordechaiHershoffyoutube I don't know if Dumbledore would *use* or even *practice with* Fiendfyre (too dangerous)
Also, can we talk about how Ronald Weasley has the second sight? In the first divination lesson when Trelawny made Ronald read Harry’s Tea leaves Ron states that will suffer greatly but be happy about it jokingly…. That is a great synapses of the third book. Harry suffered throughout the entire year but by he end was overjoyed to find that the source of a lot of that suffering, the threat of Sirius black.. was actually his godfather. Making me believe that Ron has a talent for divination.
😮
If a young Tom showed up in front of Voldemort, the elder would undoubtedly celebrate the fact that a younger him is now at his disposal to assist him in all things dark & deadly.
Or he would kill his younger arrogant self for not falling in line
I want to think younger Tom would defer leadership to the elder, but like, would he?
my thoughts are with Tom's blatant narcissism, it probably wouldn't result in a proper fight(though if it did, my money's on the fully formed guy), but I doubt that he would take orders even from himself, especially not a version that failed to even kill a baby. so young Tom would probably Take command if he had to, but older Tom would not make his rule pleasant
Mini Me.
You two obviously never read the books. which is far superior than the movie in my opinion.
"really just a misunderstood creature at the end of the day..."
Okay, Hagrid in disguise. If you say so 😉😂
I love this! Chamber of Secrets has always been one of my favorites and it never gets much attention. I love the theories you guys come up with. Always an interesting and fun watch.
it always weirded me out that film harry touches the sword of gryffindor at the blade (in the film chamber of secrets). I mean it would only take the tiniest cut for him to be poisoned again.
Grabbing swords by the blade is actually common, even in combat, it’s know as half-swording. You can even grab it with both hands and use the guard as a blunt weapon against armour. The only time it cuts is if you glide against the edge, holding it doesn’t actually cut you
@@TheNinthGeneration1 yeah but he wouldn't really know how to do that and as said above the slightest cut could possibly kill him
Like hard would it have been to grab the handle and lay the blade on his hand? Why risk it?
Malfoy: " FAMOUS Harry Potter can't even grab a sword without risking death".
I don't know if Harry would have had the emotional maturity of book Harry in Deathly Hallows because the main plot of the story is Harry's life growing up which means that if Harry never goes through what he goes through during his 7 yrs at Hogwarts, he wouldn't be as understanding of love.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the instances of the basilisk petrifying people were all when they saw it through a reflection, with the exception of seeing it through a ghost (and already being dead, but that is less of a concern)
So I don't expect normal glasses would be sufficient to prevent death, especially given Myrtle was wearing glasses and clearly died.
One of them was through a camera lens. Which, depending on the model of camera, may be no different than looking at it through any other piece of glass.
Does Myrtle wear glasses in the book (cause the films aren’t canon)? If she does then that would prove that wearing glasses wouldn’t protect a person from death from the basilisk.
@@phiefer3 it wasn't the lens of the camera that saved colin, it was the mirrors. If it was the lens, then the film would have been fine inside the camera, complete with a picture of the basilisk
I wonder how Ginny dying in this scenario would effect the harry-ron-hermione relationship
or Cho?
Ron getting over Ginnys death would have been a heavy arc for a while.
I wonder how Harry and Ron dying in this scenario would effect the harry-ron-hermione relationship
Moaning Myrtle's ghost is wearing glasses. I wonder if that was intentional to signal that Harry's glasses wouldn't save him.
This has always been one of my favourite theories to think about - I would love to see how similarly and differently Diary!Riddle and Older!Voldie go about their plans. Perhaps even how their worldviews/mindsets differ, considering that the former is only a half a soul who also hasn’t created any further Horcruxes…
I could see them working together while both planing to recontain the other as soon as they disagree. A hydra with many heads to slay
That soul difference is basically my argument for why this Diary Voldemort would be more powerful. I think he'd just win
I think that riddle would join the ministry and control it very quickly but subtly take over. I also think sirius would escape by the start of summer that year because he'd know voldemort would be after harry and the death eaters imprisoned with him would alert him through celebration as soon as Riddle summoned them. I imagine Fudge would put the sudden joy of the prisoners down to someone managing to escape and his Handsome, Young, freshly graduated new junior minister would tell him what a brilliant deduction that was and he should not just put a price on sirius head but also move harry from his mothers blood to somewhere much more vulnerable. Perhaps the leaky cauldron where he himself is staying. I'm sure the boys would get along, learn a lot from each other. I bet voldemort would enjoy that kind of game as he takes control. I doubt he'd attack harry until he's ready for the world to know he's back
I always thought that it was Harry gaining all 3 Hallows that granted him the ability to choose whether he wanted to continue dying or go back and live. You know, literally being the Master of Death concept being applied.
Maybe, but also maybe not. The whole legend of the hallows is probably a myth, Dumbledore doesn’t believe the encounter with Death really happened and that the Peverel brothers created their hallows themselves. Being master of all 3 hallows might not actually do anything special. It’s likely that it’s only actual effect in Harry and Voldemort’s final two encounters was that the Elder Wand was not loyal to Voldemort and was instead loyal to Harry, so any spells Voldemort tried to cast on Harry wouldn’t work right.
@@MerkhVision the cloak, stone and wand were real. How could Dumbledore not believe in things he held in his hands?
@@kellysouter4381 The secret is that they're not actually that special. The Invisibility Cloak is like normal Invisibility Cloaks but cannot be summoned and doesn't fade over time.
The Resurrection Stone can summon the souls of the dead but not bring them back to life. Not that much of a stretch for normal HP magic since ghosts, Horcruxes, and the Veil exists.
The Elder Wand is more powerful than most wands but is so finicky that it didn't let Grindelwald defeat Dumbledore.
The Hallows aren't special. They're mundane
@@hachiko42 I know the Elder Wand wouldn't have killed him if he didn't want to die. If Voldemort tried to kill Harry against his will, the Avada Kedarva would be as ineffective as the Cruciatus curses were
@@kellysouter4381 Just because something exists and is powerful, doesn't mean that the legends about those things are true. Yes the items are real, yes they are uniquely powerful items. But it's still entirely possible that they were simply created by the Peverel brothers, just as so many other powerful magical items were created by other powerful wizards.
This should be your next multi part series like Dumbledore's Big Plan or the Harry in Slytherin series. Go book by book and explore what would change if Harry never found the Chamber.
I've one.
What happens to the series if the Weasley's don't win the lottery.
Sirius doesn't try to escape. Peter doesn't flee the weasleys and stays a rat, doesn't find Voldemort.
Ooh ooh, what if Harry were a girl?
@@joey_surewhynot6270 except “she” would date Ron instead of Ginny.
@@Rizzob17 that would be hella awkward
AGREED
4:29 Why would Lily's protection stop working?
Can you imagine what it would be like to have all 3 hallows? It might be like Link at the end of a game with the Master Sword, 20 hearts, and all the relics of that particular game.
In the Goblet of Fire Wortmatil uses Harry's blood to bring Voldemore back. Because he used Harry's blood, Voldemort is essentially acting as a horcrux for Harry because of Lily's protection. Because that wouldn't have happened yet, Voldemort returning in full form from the diary means that Harry doesn't have that protection unless he is at Privet Drive since his aunt lives there.
@@joykeel3332 It's also why Dumbledore reacted the way he did after Harry told him what happened in the graveyard. Suddenly, Harry had a way to survive the sacrifice he had to make to make Voldemort killable. Dumbledore, of course, couldn't tell Harry as the sacrifice had to be genuine in order to work (granting the sacrifice protection on everyone and so effectively nullifying Voldemorts power so that someone might actually be able to kill him; probably Dumbledore expected himself to be that person until found out he was going to die).
@@joykeel3332 He had the protection from Voldemort the year before, and the reason he needed the acting like a horcrux was because he took the blood so the protection itself stopped working when not in Privet Drive
@@MordechaiHershoffyoutube im not sure what point you're trying to make but the protection only ever worked when he was at Privet Drive, which wouldn't allow harm to come to him by Voldemort as long as he could call that place home. It also protected him from being touched by Voldmort. When his blood was used to bring Voldemort back to full form, Voldemort could touch him but he himself couldn't kill Harry because he was now tethered to life through his blood. So if Tom Riddle is brought back then he could kill Harry and he would just die because Tom never used Harry's blood for his "rebirth ".
@@joykeel3332 In my opinion when not in Privet Drive Voldemort also couldn't harm just like he couldn't touch, and after he took the blood then he only couldn't get to Harry in Privet Drive , but could everywhere else as far as blood protection was concerned, but still couldn't because Voldemort was like a Horcrux to Harry
I would love to see your guys theory on what would happen if Snape was lying about being in love with Lily!
Was he really working for Voldemort the whole time, or was it all for his own agenda? Was he covering his tracks because he foresaw the change in the tide of battle and misled Harry with his memories? Was Dumbledore projecting his own experience with unrequited love on Snape and that's why he trusted him?
Ooo such good questions!!!!
but i mean... he did help harry telling him he had to die and all that, and his patronus is a Doe
@@agustinfranco0 It's a "what if" situation. Snape knew he was dying when he gave that information to Harry-in fact, he had that information for well over a year without telling anyone. What if his reason for finally divulging the information was selfishly wanting his name cleared posthumously? Or he'd been hedging his bets dithering between siding with Dumbledore or Voldemort, depending on who he thought would win? Also, correct me if you have a reference, but I don't think it was ever confirmed in the books that Lily was associated with a doe in anyway except inferred because her husband was a stag. It's just a thought experiment, I'm not saying its canon.
@@janealroberts7585 He still gave Harry the Sword of Gryffindor during the time of Voldemort's reign. It is unlikely anyone would bet on a 16 year old, with no wand, no way to destroy horcruxes, and an incomplete magic education, defeating Voldemort at this point. If Snape was just playing for the winning team, it would not make sense for him to help Harry Potter at this point. Not to mention stopping other students being punished by the other death eaters, if his allegiance was not to the "light side" was not sincere.
As more if there is any clear mention of Lily's representing the doe I am not sure. I think the clearest thing in canon is Dumbledore connecting it to lily.
You can't mislead someone with your memories - at least not intentionally. Memories aren't the same thing as thoughts. False memories are a thing - but by necessity, because of how your brain files them, you are not AWARE that they're false. The moment your brain files that away as "memory", you are convinced it's true and it actually happened. Because that's what memories are supposed to be - real events that actually happened.
Your brain does not have a separate setting for "events that we're putting in memory that we know aren't true", because that's a lie; not a memory. Your brain doesn't like lying, which is why it's so hard to do it well - so it doesn't keep your lies in the same place as your real memories. You can remember what the DETAILS of a lie are - but that's different, and Harry would be able to tell it was a lie, because Snape would know it was a lie.
Wouldn’t Harry still have his mother’s love protecting him at this point? He only relied on his blood inside Voldemort feeding the magic after it was ‘broken’ leaving Privet Dr.
That's what I was wondering.
Yep, so I guess he could still have mutilated his nose with a simple punch in the face.
I think it was a one-time protection that serves when he is with his family members of bloodline (aunt Petunia),
but not insie the school.... My Idea is that even if Harry doesen't feel necesserary to destroy the Diary, phoenix could still heel him, and, sencing bad wibes coming from Voldemort, grab Harry, (mby Ginny also), Ron and Lockhart to Dumbledore.
@@lindamazule2289 The protection charm from Lilly was durable as it saved Harry from Quirrel in first year. It last at least until Harry is 17/18 as long as he lives with blood relatives.
If he stay's and privet drive then yes.
Erm .... slight problem with the glasses .....
Moaning Myrtle has glasses of which I'm pretty sure she would have been wearing when she died to still have them on as a ghost.
maybe when she was crying she removed them
I also don't think glasses protect. It is only stated that looking at a reflection protects one from death, but if one is looking through glasses it isn't a reflection one sees but the real thing. Only the gase is slightly warped through the lenses. And since Colins camera is quite old it functions via a mirror so what he sees is also just a reflection.
What if Harry gave Voldemort the Philosopher’s Stone?
He would likely regain his body and power and immediately murder Harry
HARRY! DID YAH PUT MAH STONE IN DA HAND OF A QUIRREL?!!!
That would be cataclysmic.
That's a bit out of character for Harry
@@clayhunter2572 he lost his parents. Kids would do anything for that if their upbringing isn’t good. Harry with the Dursleys? Yes I want my parents
Imagine the sorting hat sitting on top of young Voldemort head talking as old Voldemort with both reading each other thoughts.
omg i love These series, pls never stop producing "what if" episodes
13:34 why would diary Tom use Nagini? if he wanted to use a snake I think the giant basilisk which he used to make his first horcrux, helped him come back to life, was owned by a Hogwarts founder, and is inherently much more powerful than Nagini would make more sense for diary Tom
Yes. More of this please and thank you!
Tom: Dude, one last thing, how did you lose my nose...?
*takes out a parchment and a quill ready to take notes on what to avoid doing *
Voldemort: ...
Its highly unlikely but I would love it if Tom Riddle also brought back Voldemort prime and they work together. Two pieces of your soul each possessing your full power, that would be really freaking cool. @SuperCarlinBrothers make a what if surrounding that, even if it doesn't make sense!! Pretty pls
I think in the second scenario Harry's sacrifice gives the protection of love to everyone in dumbledore's army. The very next person to stand up to Voldemort was Neville. Who also fits the prophecy. It stands to reason Voldemort tries the killing curse on Neville, it rebounds, and if there's still a horcrux, it marks Neville as his equal all over again.
Tom would have less ability than the 40ish year older version, because he doesn't have 40 years of learning dark magic. Even if he asks his older self for info, it's not the same as learning it over time. That might even things out a little for Harry/Dumbledore.
Unless there is a reintegration, in which he would look much younger while having all of his old knowledge. Further, it would likely be the older and more wiley version that would have the necessary knowledge and so we would have a nearly 80 year-old Voldemort inside a 16 year-old body this version of events places him at an enormous advantage.
@@jayt9608 Yeah, that would work. But I'm working with Ben's statement that Tom would have turned old voldy into a horcrux, and not re-integrated him.
@@MarkG-Pouncinglion
Which is why I based my response with "unless".
I feel there might be an argument for Tom to actually be at least somewhat stronger though, considering Voldemort went through a lot to come back; his body and mind might be weaker than this Tom, albeit more knowledgeable. Tho Tom learned things pretty quickly for his age, wouldn't be surprising this would simply be a stronger, prime, version of Voldemort. This Tom wouldn't have his soul split so much either, hence making him stronger.
Also, I can't imagine those entire 40 years were spent learning/practicing dark magic. He *is* pretty arrogant (enough to not deem training as necessary for himself, at least not after already mastering a spell, which he does learn and master magic pretty quick, he *was* basically a prodigy)
@@KevinAccetta but soul splitting didn’t affect Voldemort’s power
If Tom comes back in year 2, would Sirius still escape from Azkaban? Peter would probably leave Ron before they go to Egypt, meaning Sirius would never see the news of Peter still living in hiding. I'm sure Sirius would eventually get out as the news of Peter working for Voldemort gets out (whether by escape or release), but I don't think it would happen in year 3.
I suspect that as soon as Voldemort came back, he’d free all the death eaters who were imprisoned, and if that’s the case, Peter might ask Voldemort for a favor and have Sirius killed right there. If Sirius, upon learning of Voldemort’s return, escaped and tried to seek out say Lupin or Dumbledore to explain the situation and be safe, which would be easier in this timeline as it’s been established that he failed to kill Peter in the first place, I think he’d be protected by the Order, and Grimmauld place would still be their base of operations.
I was wondering if Harry being a Horcrux would’ve given him that second life like it would in the original timeline but I guess even if it did, Riddle would’ve probably made absolutely sure that Harry was dead before leaving the chamber. Given that he knew Harry had thwarted death as a child I doubt Riddle would want to make the same mistake in underestimating Harry like Voldy Prime did.
That voldemort laughing clip kills me every time you use it lol.
RIP Hagrid. Robbie was an amazing actor 👏 ❤️
Moaning myrtle wears glasses and still dies
Idea: what would have happened in each book if Voldermort succeeded?
Harry - "how do we destroy a horcrux?"
"Swords are fun" says Professor Worf, smiling.
That’s 2 Gryffindor relics - the hat was Gryffindor’s to begin with. If it was possible to do, Hogwarts castle itself would be a better horcrux than the hat - much harder to destroy and easier to possess students from because of the great affection that so many students and alumni had for it, which would give the building a means to build the emotional closeness required for a possession.
What happens in the first scenario:
Ginny dies in the Chamber, the Voldie kills Harry, creating the Horcrux of the Sword of Gryffindor.
Ron and Lockhart also die, by Voldie’s hands, creating the Horcrux of the Sorting Hat from Ron. Pettigrew (Scabbers) also returns to his master.
Sirius never escapes Azkaban, unless someone like Dumbledore or Lupin get info about Pettigrew’s return.
Barty Jr likely still returns, perhaps no need to take over Moody’s identity.
He'd be an even sassier Voldi. 🤣
Until touched by harry hands
The diary horcrux said that killing mudbloods doesn't matter to him anymore. Does that just mean going after them personally is beneath him? Or does that indicate some change in his thinking?
If I remember correctly from the book and movie, Tom told Harry that Ginny "poured herself into the diary " and would talk about the "boy who lived". The more diary Tom learned about Harry and Harry's destruction of the "greatest sorcerer in the world ", the more that Tom wanted to target Harry rather than "mudbloods "
RIP Hagrid
If Diary Tom came back, I think he would celebrate the fact that he has a nose and hair.
RIP Robbie Coltrane
I Figured the disembodied Volly would 'possess' Tom Riddle.
Since they're parts of the same soul, they should have both been able to share a vessel, and Tom would get all the skill and knowledge... win/win
I thought so too, but I love and agree with the way SCB explains why that wouldn't happen. For the two parts of the soul to inhabit the same vessel, Voldemort would have to feel remorse. Without doing so, I imagine that trying to possess the same vessel would greatly weaken the vessel and the fractured souls.
What about the protection of his Mother’s love wouldn’t Harry still have that going for him?
Yup. I think he forgot about that lol and it’s a major factor in all this.
I have seriously thought about this so many times. I always thought the diary, riddle would be stronger because he has more of his soul and could beat voldemort.
Beat, maybe, but I imagine they'd work together and stay AT LEAST 2 Voldemorts.
But the book explicitly states that the biggest part of Voldis soul is inside Voldi prime (prime+6 hocruxes = 7 parts, not counting the unintentional Harry)
when you go back and think about it, why weren't the attacks a bigger deal and dealt with right away. Think of this, why did everyone have to stay petrified the whole year? We know they are waiting on the Mandrakes to mature so they can make the restorative draft but are those the only mandrakes in the world? Does Hogwarts not have any other way to get the needed ingredients? Surely the Ministry itself has some way to procure what was needed in a few days at most. Saint Mungos might have had the potion or needed ingredients.
Given the rarity of the affliction, it is very likely that they wouldn't have that kind of stuff on hand, and neither would anyone else. I mean, why would you produce and store the cure to a curse that hasn't affected anyone in decades?
@@SgtSupaman We have vaccines and cures to diseases that haven't been a concern here in the US for decades stockpiled just in case. Same idea really. And who knows where else in the world petrification might be a problem.
R.I.P to everyone's favourite keeper of keys and grounds at Hogwarts. Robbie Coltrane.
Has anyone noticed that in all 3 SCB what if’s Ginny does not end up with Harry?
Voldemort meets Voldemort from diary:
Voldemort "you know what this means"
Voldemort "I do"
*later*
Young Voldemort *enters room* "ah I forgot my wand"
Death eaters "oh god, not again"
Old Voldemort *walks in* "you have no idea how long that took"
Just a friendly reminder. Myrtle wears glasses, and she’s super dead…
Super late here but she was crying so maybe she took them off to wipe her eyes
“He couldn’t do it because he’s too recognizable…”
If only there was some magical way to change your appearance that he could use to get into the ministry of magic… no… that’s crazy.
What would he do, drink some kind of magic potion to pose as an employee to walk into the ministry without question and steal something in broad daylight?!
We need more of this !!!
Surely they would be like super identical twins with differences because of ages
Ben and J, can you guys make a video about how Wengardium Leviosa is actually an OP spell. Like, why aren't people using it to lift a wand out of someone's hand, or at least throw off their aim.
Rest in Peace Rubeus Hagrid ❤️
Imagine in a world where Diary Riddle came back and Voldemort Prime still returned, when the two Voldemorts shout AVADA KEDAVRA, Harry pulls out both his own wand *and* the Elder Wand and ends up dual-wanding the two of them.
Both voldys would definitely try to destroy each other.
SICK
@@andromeda7758I could honestly see 16 year old Voldemort trying to manipulate Harry to help him kill his older version by convincing him that he has a chance to change or something like that but his older version is too far gone I know Tom Riddle would never change even when he was 16 but he could act like it or something to gain a false sense of trust from Harry.
The actor who played Hagrid, Robbie Coltrane, just passed away! T_T
The idea of Tom using the sorting hat as a horcrux interests me. That strongly implies that it would be able to, you know, speak. And I doubt Voldemort would appreciate being demoted. He might even want payback on this young upstart soul shard. I'm too tired to think through that train of thought at the moment, but its food for thought.
BRUH, what happens to the sorting hat if it had a piece of voldy's soul?
I think Voldemort Prime would put all his memories into a vial and Diary Riddle would absorb those memories. Prime would then become a horcux
That would be horrific, hed have no power, be trapped in an item and humiliated for all time while being screwed over and his thunder stolen
I have some what if ideas for you
What if Sirius made it to harry before haggis after his parents died (Sirius lives all the way through)
What if Ginny apperated away from the wedding with the golden trio
What if dumbledore lived(doesn’t died at all)
Feel free to change and edit them as you wish if you want to use them I’ll send more on the next what if except the first one will be in my comment every time(I was so disappointed when he died because he’s my favourite character )
Also can we get another what if series I loved the harry in slytherin one
haggis? who is that
You’re saying that Voldemort killing Harry would stop anyone else from killing him, but when Harry is alive he is the only one who can kill Voldemort, anyone can when Harry’s dead. This is like if no one could kill Harry after The Deathly Hallows.
I was asking my self for weeks and weeks. Could there theoreticly be like 7-8 Voldemords at the same time ? (8 if the one living in Quirrel came back too)... Would they merch bodys ? Would they try to kill each other?
If Harry dies in the chamber... Welcome to The Wizarding World of Neville Longbottom!
I love these what-if's! I'd love for the "Harry never found the Chamber" to be a big series like the other ones. I will say that I think Harry would find a way to still beat Voldemort in that scenario but I'm not sure how.
The glasses don't save anyone from death. Myrtle wore glasses. She looked at the basilisk and died.
And also, Tom Riddle (the 16y/o one) would refuse to have anything to do with Voldy Prime, fearing that he would lose his nose too.
Now I wonder, could Harry's wand (super powered gold flames) defeat Voldemort, even if Voldemort was the master of the elder wand? Because it sorta seems like 2 unstoppable forces
None of them knew about the elder wand yet. At worst, Harry's wand could serve Voldemort as any casual wand, or It could recognise someone else using him, so it would make some awkward spells (a phoenix wand can act at his own accord sometimes, you know), or, if Harry uses the sword, it could imbude any spells throwen at him. The golden flames happened only afer the fourth book, and in the small fight scene in the begininng of deathly Hollows Harry's wand recognises his enemy and sibling, Voldemort's wand, and reacts accordingly. And that is because in the end of the fourth book, the wands met each other, and what happpened was the strongest one made the other Wand to puke out it's latest spells. So in the next fight, the wand recognised it's sbling enemy not only in the wand, but in the person (Voldemort) Himself. In The chamber of secrets there is no possibility of that, because Voldemort uses Harry's wand and his wand is nowhere to be seen. There is like "I am the God now, I have the power, and you can do nothing about it". And, in my opinion, in this moment, when Harry defeated the Basilisk and slowly died from basilisk venom in his arm, phoenix Fox saved him and carried him (mby with the dead body of Gnny) to Dumbledore, together with Ron and Lockhart. Like, I imagine Voldemort throwing some spells at the phoenix, carrying away Ginny's dead body and Hary, but it would eventually lead them back to Dumbledore, where he would probably make a new plan. Keping in mind the original Voldemort didn't have his own body at this time, he probably went along with his Ideas about Triwizard tournament and Harry's blood and everything would turn out as it did, except voldemort II would try to learn everythig that had happened after the diary in mby a year,, so voldemort I should have to prepare to protect himself and stilll get the boy.
@@lindamazule2289 no sorry, I mean like in the main story, completely hypothetical, post goblet of fire, harry with the holly wand, voldemort master of the elder wand who wins
Ok, let's make It two years from chamber to the Graveyard. Voldemort I get's the winner of triwizard tournament (Harry, let's just imagine Cederic was hindered by something and didn't get to the cup in time), revieves himself through servants flesh, Fathers bone and Enemy's blood. And Let's make it that now the other VOldemort realises everything and while following his dad's forgotten past returns to the Littlehangelton. Harry escapes through the triwizards cup. What does the two Voldemorts do?
@@lindamazule2289 they sit there in shame
@@rhyswheldon9176 well, Harry Can not die, because his mothers life in Voldemorts veins teethers him to life. But Voldemort Can die, if you mean the final battle, because all his horruxes are destroyed. If the fight happens before all hocruxes are destroyed, Voldemort could still come back later, but he still could not kill Harry, because he is keeping him alive BY his own existance. That is the meaning of "neither Can live while the other survives". If all his horcruxes are destroyed before the fight, Harry wins. If not, Harry lives to fight another day. The only way for Voldemort to achieve his goal, is to make someone else kill Harry, because that would totally work... 🤯
You guys should do a big Hagrid video soon in memory of robbie Coltrane who recently passed
I love these what if theories! They are that small thing we have all wondered, but so rarely openly discuss (i.e. what if diary Voldemort had fully materialised).
I’d always thought that student Riddle/ Voldemort could have been dealt with by Dumbledore (or even Harry with Lily’s sacrifice still in play). He is not the fully formed dark lord that we see later in the books.
That said, the prospect of two Voldemorts is quite terrifying and the younger version could certainly have developed and grown stronger.
But again, there is the caveat that I’m not sure older (i.e. less percentage soul Voldy - depending on how you think the soul split for each Horcrux works) would have wanted competition from his younger self.
Do we think they would have worked together? Surely old Voldy would have wanted to trap young Voldy in a horcrux again if he is the largest piece of his soul tethering him to life. Alternatively, younger Voldy might have thought this would be the case and destroyed old Voldemort (as old Voldy is arguably a very small percentage of his soul after all the horcux soul splits) rather than bringing old Voldy back to full power.
Or are we all just overthinking this way too much and more than JK ever did. 😂
Awesome video! I absolutely love this idea you came up with. The chamber of secrets has always been one of my top favorites in the film franchise. There was also so much mystery surrounding Tom Riddle that the movie really didn’t go that far into until many years later in the flashback scenes through Harry’s teacher’s memories but that was really all we got throughout the movies so I’m glad you went into so much detail with him here even if it was all hypothetical. I would love for Warner Brothers to make a movie about Tom Riddle. That would be awesome.
What? Lily's protection doesn't *only* live on if Voldemort uses his blood. He still has that protection for 4 more years until he turns 17, regardless.
Tom can't use Avada Kedavra on Harry if he comes back. Period.
You're thinking of the protective magic that Dumbledore puts on Harry by making him live at the Dursleys. That's the one that breaks once he turns 17. There's no age limit on lily's protection
@@DavidvdGulik exactly! Her protection was love itself which has no limits.
imagine if voldemort possesses hocrux sorting hat, and he can talk as the sorting hat
Just had a thought that I don't think you have discussed, what are the other horcruxes ways back to a living voldy... Do they all have a path?
I assume they were all basically a mindless being like the one we saw when Harry was in King's Cross. All except Diary Tom who was made with this specific mission as a potential backup plan.
RIP to Hagrid, Robbie Coltrane passed away today. What a great actor
I would like to argue that glasses don't protect you from death by basilisk eyes as Moaning Myrtle wears glasses and she still died....and was the only one.
But yes, more people should wear glasses, it makes some of us looks good
i was under the impression she took them off, because she was crying, so didnt wear them when she saw the basilisk
Video idea?? Your knight bus video is one of my favorite “explanations “ and it made me think twice about the Wesley’s car. The fact that it thinks makes we want a video about it actually being a thestral lol
Wouldn't Harry still win, because as shown by "What If Harry Was In Slytherin?", he could have controlled the Basilisk by Parseltounge also.
Basilisk only obeys slytherin's true heir
@Beastmode-zj2gt It's possible Voldemort lied about only the heir being able to control it (out of arrogance, pride and to not give Harry an advantage) and that any parselmouth can. Either way, Harry has a piece of Voldemort (the true heir of Slytherin) inside of him, which didnt even die off with Basilisk venom thanks to Fawkes. If Trelawney can correctly "predict" Harry's Horcrux's date of birth instead of his own, the same rules should apply.
@@S-Mania but, doesn't the legend itself state that the heir can only do it though?
It is possible to write the story in a way such that Harry would win, even if he didn't found the chamber of secrets.
Just like you did with the Harry in Slitherin saga.
8:17 Man these are the best parts of the vids for me 😂
I laugh every time
I think this might be a good topic for your next "What if" series. I'd love to see how this could have played out and how it'd change Dumbledore's big plan. :D
Ministry of magic security pamphlet:
Be sure to practice rooster conjuring spells with all family members.
Being that the piece that is Voldy prime is sentient, do we really believe he would allow himself to be placed/made into a horcrux? I think it’s more likely that piece would attempt to possess his younger self. Idk how successful he would be but I def feel like it wouldn’t be as simple as simply making prime a horcrux
Presumably all the pieces of his soul are sentient. Each time he makes a horocrux he is willingly putting a version of himself into it. Prime Voldemort would just be repeating what parts have him have been doing all along.
12:50 Missed opportunity for Ben to put on his blue light blocking glasses on!
The chamber of secrets was my son’s favorite Harry Potter book. He literally read it to pieces
Can i just say that every time harry picks up the sword by the blade I flinch no matter how many times i see that scene!
Maybe I'm misunderstanding or maybe it's been so long since I've read the books I have forgotten but Harry's mother's protection kept the Voldemort from killing him as a baby and the whole reason Voldemort had to have some of Harry's blood was to overcome that protection. So if I understand correctly if he doesn't come back in the graveyard and doesn't take in Harry's blood then Harry should still have his mother's protection so if Voldemort tries to use the killing curse on him wouldn't that killing curse rebound against him and disembodied Tom Riddle like it did Voldemort the first time? I just don't see how Voldemort could actually kill Harry himself without taking in his blood.
It depends, I mean, that version of Voldemort *didnt* try to kill Harry and be stopped by his mother's sacrifice, would the protection still register him as the same person? Would he even still be safe at the Dursly's, as the protection he gets from being at his mother's relatives was tied into the sacrifice?
Like, could Riddlemort nit just walk up to his house like the Weasleys with their flying car?
@@danielled8665 Riddlemort? I love that, that is exactly what he should be called. I don't know, I assume that the love protection would apply to all possible Voldemorts. I think that if Riddlemort tried to use the killing curse on Harry it would rebound and disembody him just like Voldemort prime. But who knows for sure.
This, he's protected as long as he calls the Dursley's home his home, by spending Summer there.
No I think you’re right! They forgot about this crucial piece of info lol
Ben always makes my day
Probably a stretch, but could Mad-Eye Moody have been able to help find the Chamber of Secrets? I mean, the eye could see through solid matter, it probably would have allowed him to see the detail of a snake on the faucet from several floors down. and the ghosts in the castle could have told him about Moaning Myrtle's death since one of their own (Nearly-Headless Nick) had been attacked already. That way, it would make sense that he'd decide to inspect an abandoned girl's bathroom. Claiming to have smelled Polyjuice Potion near that room too could have given him a reason as well.
What just happened with the recall of memory about the chamber of secrets movie?? Fawkes comes over to heal Harry with tears AFTER HARRY STABBED THE DIARY, NOT BEFORE. Harry stabs diary, Tom Riddle dies, Ginny wakes up, THEN Fawkes comes to heal Harry with tears........does anybody else notice this? Is this another case where the movie shows it differently from the books?
PLEASE MAKE THIS A SERIES BOOK BY BOOK 📚 we need it 🔥
My question is: if teenage riddle came back, would destroying the diary kill him, or is it just a normal diary?
12:52 absolute shame Ben isn’t wearing his glasses here lol.
Loving these what if theory’s !
Would Contact lenses count as protection from Basilisk?
My favourite part about this particular theory is that Rowling has actually said that if Diary!Riddle had been brought back, he would have been stronger than Voldemort was in canon. So it's got at least part of an official answer.
So when He comes face to face with Dumbledore, Diary!Riddle would triumph and kill Dumbledore.
@@adammartinez8061 possibly. All things considered, Dumbledore himself may end up becoming reluctant to fight Voldemort if he recognises that the new Voldemort is his better. Though I don't imagine that would last forever - eventually Voldemort would force Dumbledore's hand and make him fight him. In such a case, I could see Dumbledore intentionally passing the Elder Wand to someone else so Voldemort doesn't become its master.
Hello, resident self proclaimed Tom Riddle/Voldemort expert here with a knowledge of 20 years of fan theories, character dissections and fanfics. Great job on the video, a lot of fans like to speculate on this spot for canon divergence. Personally, I love the idea that a young Tom Riddle would have decided on a political route for a takeover after finding out about his original downfall. I could theorize about this fictional villain for hours with you. From how he possibly hates his birthday, not only because it's a mark of aging, but because the fireworks for New Year's could remind him of the London bombings. I could talk about him being barefoot due to sensory issues from being a wraith. I could talk about his bad relationship with food due to the shortages from the war. How about his travels to Africa and discovering ancient magics from first civilizations. Literally...I have read thousands of fics and theories on him, and have written essays on him myself. There is so much lost potential with him. I have joked for years that I could right 7 novels on just him.
-UncleUndead of Team Rammyz
Wait, could you link me some, or give me some names of great fics? I have currently ran out of Tom Riddle-lore type fics that are well written...
@@anniex8651 depends what you are into. I'm a bit embarrassed to admit, but some of the best fics involving him and theories or character explorations, come from fics where he is in a relationship with Harry. That being said, Anything by ObsidianPen is helmed as the best of the best, and I usually point people in that direction if they are ok with the shipping. Harry tends to be the one in most fics that is able to connect with Tom in ways he can't connect with himself. There are fics that go very deep into this, as well as drop into the political state of the wizarding world.
Another good theory to explore is various canon divergencies where Voldemort discovers Harry is a horcrux and what he does proceeding that. Like, if Tom sensed it in CoS and realized he was a fellow horcrux. If Voldemort realized it in the graveyard, or in the Ministry. Then going off of each of those into wildly different scenarios and time lines.
@@KindaSpookyMedia Thank you. No you are exactly right, don't worry!! (btw you can delete the previous comment, if you don't want to leave it here in the comment section)
I have been currently on a Harry is Master of Death and Time Travel binge and they are all TRHP if you want I can drop some of them for you
@@anniex8651 I haven't read many with MoD Harry but I love a good Time travel one.