2 Common riding mistakes: foot position and hands/fingers
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Most riders make common errors when learning to ride but these are easily remedied if you understand why you do what you do and what to do to fix it.
In this instructional video I talk about toes and fingers, feet and hands. What your feet should be doing while riding off pavement as well as how when and how many fingers should be used.
www.BretTkacs.com
adventure motorcycle training
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what's with the hat man, you bald and ashamed of it??? it really does not enhance your videos.. it's silly, a little distracting and it just seems weird that it's such a big "thing" for you... but, whatever... it's just a little odd to me...
I just need a course from this guy on the transition from helmet to hat 😯👍. Good video like always and very nice place to ride 👍
Brets the best in the business. I've never seen the top of his head and i've seen every video.😆
He has his insecurities too, that’s why he is fast on the helmet to hat transition….lol
@@mojoriden I saw a video where you can see it clearly. He just have some hair loss that's all, he might doesn't like it that's why he always try very hard to don't show it. I don't really know what's wrong on having hair loss but some people can't accept it.
@@lf3106 I find it strange the first thing he does is put on his hat. I see nothing wrong with what little hair loss you may have. I thought his hat was like his trademark image or something. Excellent instructor!
Yep, there it is @ 6:19. Consistent remarkable technique in all Brett demonstrates!
Those helmet cap transitions are crazy fast and smooth!!! 🤣 💀
I dont come for the motorcycle coaching..... I'm simply here in awe of the hat change! 😁
My bike comes with a rider system where the rider uses the number of fingers best suited for every situation, as they arise.
I recognize the first mistake from horse riding.
I teach my students the same principle, but explain it differently as riding boots are more flexible. When I tell them to turn the toes parallel to the horse instead looking like Charlie Chaplin, they can force the foot, but it doesn't give the correct effect on the rest of the leg. Therefore I started telling them to push there heels outwards. When they did that the knee/rest of the leg automatically reacted on that movement in the positive direction that I wanted to teach them.
When off roading I told that myself as well. That I need to push my heels outwards. Now I even do it when riding on the road.
Heels down, toes up, hug with your calves. At least English jumping from what I remember.
Two fingers on the clutch lever and two on the front brake lever while covering the rear brake with right foot on slow corners, especially off-camber uphill tracks, body position and look through the corner. Appreciate your instructional videos.
Currently riding through the jungle in Thailand. I have consciously stopped flipper footing. Level of control has improved massively. Thanks, I needed this.
About 4 years ago I was taught to only use 2 fingers, and to keep them on the levers. So much so, I’ve worn the black powder coating off my brake lever where I rest each finger! I just noticed it about 2 months ago.
Dear Bret, first of all thank you for all time inspiring videos. I just recently bought my first ADV bike and have yet to get started off-road. I did ride a bit of dirt bike when I was young but with no formal training. There is one view on riding which I would like you to do a video on, old bikes. In most channels all bikes and riding recommendation are related to new and very ‘sophisticated” bikes. I bought an old 1990 Africa Twin. It’s heavy, low powered, has a simple suspension setup an in general requires a bit of work and muscle. How do you see the difference in riding techniques to apply? Best regards - Lars
Other than the specifics I address with ABS there is no change in technique. I do not rely on traction control. As far as electronic suspension, power modes etc those don't apply to what I teach
@@BretTkacs thanks for comments - great!
Now Bret tells me. Do Not Flipper Foot! I was flipper footing during a stream crossing where I did everything absolutely wrong. My left boot toe caught in the mud. The tibia repair took 1 large plate plus 13 screws, while the fibula healed on its own. Once that healed, I needed a complete knee replacement on the same leg. Don't do this.
Flipper footing is fine on a street bike if you are cruising down the highway with your feet on the highway pegs. But not off road, and not in town, or any situation where you need more control, and/or may need to make a control input quickly and unexpectedly. You need to be in a position to do it.
@@geraldscott4302 it's not even really that good on street bikes tbh. Guy at the local motorbike shop here got his foot caught under his footpeg going around a turn because he was flipper footing. Maybe on a cruiser up on highway pegs, but not really a street bike.
@@geraldscott4302 Did a track day when I got my Fireblade many years ago and the instructor very quickly pointed me out and showed me that I must put the balls of my feet on the pegs for better control.
@@HartyBiker I said "if you are cruising down the highway with your feet on the highway pegs" Besides dirt bikes I also ride a Harley with highway pegs. The highway pegs are much higher than the regular footpegs, which would touch down first, letting you know not to lean over any farther.
That sounds nasty. And I’m the guy who broke his lower back, hip, pelvis (4 places), 3 ribs and smashed right foot at 17!! But I don’t flipper foot.
Yet I still don’t know how to pronounce Tkacs…!👀🧐😎😜
Yellowpine is in a beautiful area. You’d think it was still our own private Idaho. 👍🏻🇺🇸
Despite riding dirt bikes since the early 1970s, I was a four finger rider until my first track school at Pacific Raceways on a Suzuki Hayabusa. It was a CLASS school with Reg Pridmore. The acceleration of the Bus was so strong exiting the bus stop chicane that I switched to two finger clutch and brake for more control. Been doing two finger ever since on both street and dirt. Nice video! Will take your foot position advice to heart. I tuck my feet in when I get in tight spaces but am no doubt lazy in more open riding. Definitely need to improve on that! Thanks!
the way i fix my finger problem was easy, i changed the levers to shorty levers and only fit 2 fingers, 3 will be a very squeeze fit, but fors sure there is no room for the fourth finger to be on. so all fixed, and after 2 years riding like that i can jump on any bike and only use 2 fingers no matter the levers.
I don't know how you can stay on the road in that Idaho place. I mean the views are so distracting, it's gotta be impossible to ride in a straight line. :D
It was an unbelievable place to ride
@@BretTkacs Sure looks like a vacation paradise.
I trust my instinct and use 3 for clutch and 2 for brake, that speech assures me, thanks... 👏👏👏👏
You guys are killing me sometimes with the semantics in this content. “Number of fingers”, lol.
“Don’t stick your feet out like an idiot”. Let ‘em. We want everybody and their mom who just bought a bike to be out there in the backcountry? Naw, let em figure it out themselves, without youtube how-to’s. Come on, my dudes - a ten-year-old who’s never watched a how-to video can figure this shit out.
Alhumdoulillah by help of my God ALLAH I do the same as you say before I watch your show .. although I am new at bike , I prayed to ALLAH and ask to help me I don't know anything about bikes
Regardless of where your foot ends up you'd be WAY better protected than these 'experts' if you were wearing a decent set of boots. No one should be regularly falling on a large motorcycle while wearing the overgrown hunting boots these boys have on. A dedicated motocross boot is what you're after. One brand in particular offers replaceable soles and they offer an 'enduro' sole which is much more friendly for walking around than a typically smooth motocross specific sole.
Your boots are only marginally less important than your helmet, don't skimp here...
Thanks for continuing to put these out Bret . What kind of brake levers do you have on your GS? Do you have a Good, Better, Best list for short levers with good adjustability?
I love the Wild@Heart levers from South Africa but the cheap Chinese eBay levers shown in the video get the job done.
Yeahhh I can't do 2 fingers. Got short fingers so with the levers adj to where I can reach the levers they hit my fingers on bars before they are fully applied. Idk i have had tank slappers ect never had bars pulled from my hands on any dirtbike/bike I have ridden. Ps clutch pressure on a 1k is a lot sht goes numb in traffic
Great video, and thanks for the tips. I suffered a spiral fracture last year from skiing and it is no fun at all. Also great to see Kyle from BAM! Looking forward to more content from ID.
This was a fun collaboration 👍🏻 Brett has sooo much knowledge
Bret whenever I try saddling I feel im being pushed back and I do not have proper control over my bike
Is it mainly because of I might not be grabbing my tank w those knees which might be because of my foot position?
Only one way to find out ig? Let’s hit the trailssss
Dude! Your helmet to hat transition is stunning! Commendable!
He is the GOAT in helmet-hat transition, fo sho!
Great stuff Bret...the foundation to riding is key...starting at the base and controlling the clutch and brake...always good to reinforce the basics - keep the videos coming...thanks!!!!
I knew I recognized that Africa Twin!
Good eye 😉
What harness is Kyle wearing? Also this is great video! Thanks for sharing your passion with the rest of us. Please keep them coming.
I wounld argue that 4 fingers is wrong even on the street, unless you are dealing with weak brakes. It just does not offer the needed control and turns your levers into a binary input.
Kewl. Now get out of here.
Bret, where the heck were you in "69 when my hodaka super rat gave me lesson in foot grabs bush.... followed by " tree smacks fingers". all hard learned lessons passed down by great people like you, keep on teaching. Its hard to break my 50 year old habits but Ive learned alot from your channel and rider courses.
Flipper foot off-road broke my ankle when the bike went down… it’s so true to tuck em in!
I am certain the most important thing on Brets mind when the camera starts is…..don’t screw up the cap exchange😂
I'm Guilty....
Thanks for pointing that out
I've learned with mountain biking to use two fingers front an rear brake so from then on it was second nature.
When I was 19 I twisted my foot and leg back on a CR500. Bottomed out in the sand top of 4th gear. Blew my knee out and have been living with it ever since. Walking with a limp at 63…
Still love riding
Great advice
Depends on the clutch pull. I'd prefer never to use more than 2fingers since you want to keep you hands on the grips. One or Two fingers seems to help with modulating and relaxing your grip. Flipper foots I learned quickly going through rock gardens when I started offroad riding...still a bad habbit. I always recommend using true motocross boots with lugged soles over those so called 'Adventure' boots....however, there is no substitte for true leg braces to help prevent those serious injuries . That's my ramble...have fun riding!
I HAVE to use 4 fingers(or 3), it's CRAZY painful if I attempt to use 2, no matter What I do, I just DON'T have any control with 2 fingers, period......I think it has to do with 20 years of playing Guitar, and bashing my hands up doing auto mechanics, lifting weights, etc.......but it's just Not happening and I stopped trying to use 2 fingers over 10 years ago! I've seen Moto GP guys that use 4 also.
Great tips! Thanks!
Good teaming and yeah, it's a constant battle with our bad habits :)
Welcome to Idaho! Great riding here. I've learned and unlearned alot watching your videos. Thanks!
Well said.. all you teach is immediately useful and helpful .. also a reminder of that for long time riders is very nice.. Thank you from italy
7:10 in... Just noticed this. Good job having the reverse-field flag on the proper side. A “Flag Proper” goes on the left arm, and a “Reverse Flag” goes on the right arm. This way, the stars always face forward. Just saw that, good job. 😎👊🏻 Also, thanks for the tip on the fingers for break and clutch. Been riding for over 20 years, mostly Harley’s, but today, I own (and love) a KTM 1290 SAS. I’ve taken the BRC, ARC, Off-Road and ATV courses from MSF over the years, and they always said “full fingers”. Experience taught me two was enough a long time ago, regardless of what MSF said. It’s nice to hear someone else affirm this. 👍🏻
Good stuff! Been riding dirt 35 years, this is the way! Man I wish I had a teacher back in the day like this!!! Thanks for sharing!
Cool to see brother Kyle with you Bret. He’s a solid dude, and should have more subs 👍🏻
Thanks for the kind words 👍🏻
@@backcountryadvmoto He is right Kyle. Your channel is awesome!
It feels really unnatural to have your feet pointing out especially when riding aggressively. One finger covering the brake and clutch at all times for me. It's a forced habit for motocross days.
Thank you Bret ji for doing this video. I regularly watch your videos and appreciate !
The only place it’s good to use 4 fingers on the clutch is when waiting for the traffic light to change 😎
I’m using 4 fingers for the clutch and the brakes on my himalayan. But I should use 6 or 7 fingers xD, the clutch is not an hydrolic one. But i’m used to do like this. I also use 3 fingers with my mountain bike. Most important is having the good feeling.
Great video Brett. Loved the format including other riders with varying experiences. Cheers 👍
Great advice and reminder on the feet. I find myself getting lazy or having bad bike posture if riding a lot of pavement prior to going off pavement.
Thanks man this has been really helpfull.
Gold! Thank you very much.
Nothing new for an old viewer.. 😜
UA-cam Motorcyclists be like trying to school me to hold the handlebars lightly so the front wheel can find it's own way and recover from a wobble. I've taken out three wooden construction horses in a row on an interstate at 65mph when I started going blind, you can be sure I'm holding on to those handlebars tight with a deathgrip to stay on the bike. I have no problem with it. Been riding for 25 years as my daily driver. And no, you don't need to cover the clutch and the brake with two fingers all the friggin time. Your hands will get even more tired doing that than a deathgrip.
You're having to do these extreme measures because you're driving in dangerous roads unsuitable for travel and dodging things all the frigging time and starting and stopping all the time... so.. shrug, yeah, in that scenario, maybe I would too. Or, I mean, you could just take a paved road and enjoy a smooth ride...
Thank you for the video. The third riding error is to wear Gaerne Balance Trial Boots. 😉
As a trials rider, I always have one finger on the clutch as well as one on the brake (on- and offroad).
Hmm. I use 2-3 fingers on the brake but it’s the outer 2-3 fingers. The index finger and thumb are always around the throttle.
Self taught. I used 2 fingers. That let me lock the front at will, but maintain control. (Street riding) Then did a course, and was taught 4 fingers. I learned the hard way that if you lock the front that you can't recover. I gave the trainers feedback and they just blew me off. I should have realised as the instructor locked the front and crashed demonstrating the skill. He was too badly injured to continue the day. The bikes we were using were Honda CT110 (it was a required course for the motorcycle delivery riders for Australia Post) that had single leading shoe drum brakes. Without doubt the least effective brakes I've ever used by a good margin. Still only needed 2 fingers on the street to lock the front solid.
Thanks. Good advice. I’m glad to say have not ‘flip-footed’ as I’m usually hanging on for dear life!! So I clutch the dear bike as though I’m riding a horse!! I’m a newcomer on a gsa 1250 and guess I have been lucky. Enjoying the videos.
Learned my lesson grabbing a handful of brake coming to a stop on pavement. My suspension pogo'd and down she went, felt terrible.
Maybe you know, careful with the front brake stopping. If the bars aren't perfectly straight the front brake can take you down. Found out the hard way in class! Easy on front coming to a stop (unless in an emergency), maybe finish the stop with the rear.
Learned that in the mud trail riding as a kid.
New rider. Appreciate the lessons. Got a 2022 RE Himalayan to ride with my sons on Northern portions of the Continental Divide trail. Bucket list item. 🙂 Liked and subscribed.
Yep flipper foot, dropped the WR250 at 40kmph and broke my Tip &Fib...Brakes..."Luxury" try riding a old BMW R80GS with rear drum brake...it requires 3 to 4 fingers on the front brake...
Hi Bret I commented on another video. I can not find it so I will ask here. I noticed in this video, you were wearing a boot that the front half curved when you knelt down. That boot is certainly not stiff like a Sidi. I had asked you about riding boots in that other video. You said off road, even 1% get a boot that does not flex and the best out there is( Sidi). You also said look on the ( for example) pro forma site. And they did indeed say in BIG RED letters. If you ride even 1% off road these boots may not be enough protection...just like what you said. ALL that to say, you are not riding with a boot that will not flex. SO YES I AM CONFUSED! WITH Regard to foot protection... seems like with ANY MOTORCYCLE riding, one would want the Ultimate protection.... I.E. Sidi's best.... please "unconfuse" me.... thank you!!!
Second, I do not have the means to attend your class. Back in the 90's I took race corses, Redge's CLASS etc etc. Besides these "You Tube" videos, Where can I go to learn more about off road riding?
I have a new comparison unit of measurement for time: "Faster than Bret Tkacs covers his head after removing his helmet." :)
I was reminded that foot position alone won’t compensate for crappy boots. Took a serious log to the toe cap of my SG12s last weekend that completely glanced off and aside from a scuff - if that were my old crap fox boots, I’m sure I’d have many broken bones. (It also proved that I keep my toes in as the boot was pushed into the bike rather than ripping it off.)
Your words about losing control and not surfing the bike down the gravel and the like, ring so true now for me because I was in an accident a few days ago, in town. Walked away with a lot of deep bruising, but no broken bones thankfully. When you're confronted with it, there's really nothing you can do. In this instance - I accidentally wheelied my Versys (I let my frustration get to me and didn't realize I was giving it so much gas before releasing the clutch suddenly) and all I could do was when I felt the bike falling backward, was pushing myself away from it (and probably partially got thrown too) and landed hard on my side. Full gear substantially reduced the damage I could have taken especially since I rolled numerous times after hitting the ground.
Still recovering, but eager to get back on my Versys once it gets a proper look over.
Anyway wanted to share that. It's still pretty fresh for me. Your videos have been an inspiration, and I've learned a great deal from your lessons. Thanks for everything you do to help educate people. I'm eager to move forward from this experience, and continue improving as a rider.
I found that putting "shorty" levers on my 800GS did the trick. Since they are shorter, the ball at the end of the lever is much closer to my middle finger. So I can easily use two fingers because there is some additional leverage provided by contacting the ball while clutching or braking. BTW, I find my self carefully watching your helmet-to-hat switch at the beginning of your videos. I should watch the rest with as much focus!
I had shorty levers on my 990 and it transformed.
I took a course by Bret a couple of months ago and he was teaching 1-3 fingers. By the end of the course, my little finger on my clutch hand was very tender and black and blue. This was due to the lever hitting where I broke that finger many decades ago. Like you, I changed to shorty levers and the problem was solved. That’s a good fix that reminds you every time to have your little finger on the handlebar at all times
My wife dropped her road bike last week and broke the en of her clutch lever off, feels loads better now its a shorty!
I’m working on my own helmet to hat transition. Man has many talents!
anything less than 4 fingers on a DR650, you aint stopping!! Best thing about a DR650 is you can grab a fistful of brake on the dirt and not get into trouble, an F800GS on the other hand .......
Back when I was a (young)motorcycle instructor during the mid 80's, 4 finger braking worked well when trying to get those single pot calipers to grip that solid disc(s). Brakes have come a loooooong way since then!!! Good vid!
I changed stock levers for shorties on both my Tiger and Bobber. Street or dirt - 2 fingers on both work for me. And can’t help but use pinky and ring fingers for hooks
The big reason I use less fingers on the clutch is so I can actually grip the bar while feathering the clutch on technical climbs. My Tiger 800 can do 60mph in 1st gear, so low speed technical climbs always require slipping the clutch.
I'm same 2x2 fingers pretty much all the time. Power from middle finger, index for finesse and "feel". Same "safety hook" remaining fingers. For some reason (ex snow ski instructor) just before a surface change (ex. on to off pavement) I automatically slide forward in the seat, squeeze my thighs and knees on the tank, and pidgeon toe/snowplow my feet. Then I do a "horse jockey" hover to unspring my mass over the bike and allow it to move around. When I first got the large bike I was all whiskey throttle back and stiff, and washboard jeep fire roads terrified me. Then I went to "horse" basics and got better. Bret - Thanks for all these videos. Can you do a tutorial on "Rider Modes - when and why" ?
These 2 issues said here are no biggies. The real biggest mistake for any ADV riders is to buy too big cc, too HEAVY bikes, which is happening here too. Big means you'll get stuck, you'll fall heavy and often, you'll be not able to ride on softer ground. I'd change your bikes to something like Honda 300 CRF asap.
My thought for ADV and mountain bikes (esp mtn bikes) is I use one finger on the brake, which allows me to maintain a good handlebar grip (gentle yet firm) and still brake effectively.
I flipper foot because after 2 left knee and1 right knee replacements I can't get my feet straight anymore.
I started riding in 1972. I was 12 and my big brother showed me how to ride on my Yamaha jt-1 mini enduro. It was 1 finger on front brake 2 fingers on the clutch. I guess I had a pretty good teacher after all. ( that is one of the few Good things that I learned from him😉. I have a 1977 kz650 and a 2018 Honda 500x that I take camping . Don't ride much dirt anymore just putting into towns near where ever we camp to look for BBQ or the local D D D .
Boas dicas, segurança sempre. Abraço
4:23 I rode Saturday and cannot tell you if my feet were straight or not. That alone is a warning.
Fingers…Four on brake and four on clutch…never had an issue including Scottish ISDT (ie lots of off-road experience). Your pinky will not hold onto anything! When you move to the brake or clutch with the fingers the whole lot becomes a single unit. It’s the thumb/first finger that stops the bar moving back. NOT the pinky that stops it moving.
Feet…if you look like a duck fair enough. As long as they are firm on the pegs and tucked in tight most people will be ok. No need to be 100% in-line forward. Balls of foot versus arch? I prefer arch off-road as it seems more planted with the heel against the peg. On my road bikes/track days I use balls of foot.
Many ways to ride - as long as it works for you. Agree that there is a general better way but there is no perfect way.
MSF is actually moving on from enforcing 4 fingers - they demonstrate for, but if a student uses 2, it's considered a more advanced technique that should not be discouraged, so long as they aren't trapping their throttle. The big problem that we frequently see on the range is students using two fingers to brake and SIMULTANEOUSLY rolling on the throttle, which is why it was so heavily discouraged for so long.
I came to Moto from Bicycling, took my Daddy's hat from the Estate and after Safety Course found my first, had to learn more on the second including picking it up by the Bars (Aruba Elite Police technique), glad y'all call us outside!!
I learned riding lane splitting in SF - two fingers on clutch and break was naturally evident as the way to go.
Took some official courses got hammered to use 4 fingers, "thats something people who teach themselvse and who ride dirt do" was their opinion on finger riding.
And yeah I'm totally back to using 2 fingers pretty much immediately after that.
I can't speak to track riding, but for most street riding (100% dirt) I think 4 finger clutching and breaking is quite antiquated - its a loss of control for no real gain - maybe if your doing gnarly stop and go and need to conserve hand strength.
Best I can tell it is a legacy of older drum-brake era bikes that require more physical strength to operate and your official msf style courses haven't caught up.
Now to improve my flipper footing - whichI know i am terrible about.
I've seen people talk about the foot position, and personally, as I was riding a scooter before I got a Suzuki V-strom DL250SX
(you can laugh, but I had never been into motorcycles before... 30 years of Rally cars made sure of that, so the scooter was a cheap way of seeing if the benefits of two wheels getting through the traffic and cutting down the commute time was something I wanted)
But it's so nice to have something to clamp my legs to, the toes just naturally want to be close in to give my knees a better grip of the tank, & let my core muscles, which are now horrendously strong compared with what they used to be, do all the work in controlling the angle of the bike and do the majority of the steering... I'm just working the throttle, front brake, clutch and indicators with my hands, they barely do anything apart from a gentle push on the inside to stop the bike from trying to stand back up in the turns.
what I struggle with is having to move my feet forward to use the clutch & brake, and that damn muffler that gets in the way of my heel, preventing me from being able to stand on the bike properly!
It sounds like you're going to have to pay Scotty Kilmer to demonstrate the bike surfing thing... he said it's what he would do... and I need that laugh!
back to position, I net nervous when my toes are under the gear lever waiting to upshift... It feels vulnerable down there!
I know there is lots of meat between the lever and the bottom of the bike, so the foot is reasonable safe, but it doesn't feel that way.
Hey Tim, before you jump off the bike... check out the very different dismount techniques... I wonder what the topic is with this?
I use 3 on the clutch, I actually seem I use the two main ones to bring it towards me and the smaller two for the fine control (at the end of the lever)
with the brake, I will keep two on it if I feel there is a need to have to make an evasive manoeuvre, but when it actually comes to stopping, I once again rely on the fine control at the end of the lever with the outer fingers!
Admittedly, the worst condition I have ridden in is wet tarmac, maybe over dirt & grass, but only in first gear & that's to get to the road. I do want to ride on Gravel, the Bike is capable of it, probably not much more than a basic gravel road, but here in New Zealand those roads are off limits to anyone that hasn't joined a dirtbike club and it attending a club event!
Good video. I have no idea where my feet are. I just figured if they could work the controls they must be in the right place. I'll have to take a look.
I do make a conscience effort to hug the tank with me knees.
That said, it's my first adv bike. 2022 KLR 650. And I think I'm going to have to stick with four fingers on the clutch. You must be talk hydraulic clutches.
Not sure if anyone is still following the comments for this video - but oh well! 😁 Let's just put it out there anyway.
I use a somewhat "weird" grip for both throttle and clutch. At least it is not common at all, I've maybe met one or two people in my life who did the same. I've been riding for 27 years, most of these on road, but recently predominantly off road. For the record, I'm mostly riding a 1996 Africa Twin, heavy beast with on electronics, weak brakes and stiff clutch. I have other bikes as well, and had quite a few over the years, but the grip has never changed.
So what I'm doing is keeping my index finger around the grip at all times and using the other fingers on the levers. Usually, I would use middle and ring finger on the brake and middle-ring-pinky on the clutch, because it's really heavy. Offroad, I often go to only middle finger on the brake. Anyhow, no matter how many fingers I use on the lever, the index finger will always grip the bar. I have no idea why I do that, it feels natural and I never even thought of another way for many, many years.
I think I have pretty good control - but what do I know. What can say is that "over-braking" hasn't caused me much trouble yet.
Another thing: If I really need to ride relaxed and concentrated, I actually consciously ride without any fingers on the levers. I know that sounds stupid to most of you - but that way, I ride much smoother and more relaxed. I have trained gripping the levers very quickly from this position and again, it hasn't caused me any trouble yet. I'm not doing this all the time, by no means, only when I feel a little insecure etc and need to consciously relax. The advantage of riding relaxed is more important to me in that case.
Anyone out there using this grip? Any thoughts?
1st mistake: Buying a BMW GS 12XX motorcycle for off road riding. You should buy the lightest bike you can get that will meet the minimum needs of your adventure.
2nd mistake: Loading down the bike with too much gear.
I broke my ankle 3 days ago doing exactly this bad flipper foot move. I’m a brand new rider on a vstrom 650. I took a dirt road for a quick tour and found some thick sand. The sand plus my inexperience caused the crash but the flipper foot caused a broken ankle. Great video and safety tip.
The lesson I learned about ADV while riding my 2007 Triumph 955i in the mountains of New Mexico is that 1 liter bikes really aren't designed for non-paved roads, no matter what they say or what you think. First of all, I'm 6'1" and 240lbs and reasonable strong and fit and it is a real struggle to pick that bike up when it falls. Secondly, if you ride you are going to fall. Third, you're never going to get out of first gear on a 1 liter bike on any serious dirt road so what is the point of 100+ horsepower? Either it's good at speeds in excess of 130mph and bad at 10mph or the opposite - none of them are good at both. Fourth, if you're going to challenge seriously tough dirt roads, wear knee armor, too. When the surgeon was done with me it looked like my knee had caught fire and he tried to put it out with a wood chisel. The bike is still up there on top of the mountain. When I went to fetch it with a friend with a 4X4 pickup I had to give up when the road got so dangerous and steep that I was afraid that instead of retrieving the bike I'd be responsible for killing my friend when we rolled down the side of the canyon in his pickup. If I'd been on a bike actually designed for that kind of riding I would have been able to pick it up and ride it out even with the broken knee and the severed ACL.
i agree with all the points Bret mentioned.I am a self taught ADV rider because in my city we don't have the luxury of any type of training. I use 2 fingers on break and 3-4 on clutch. I use 3-4 on clutch because my bike's clutch is not that soft and smooth or may be my fingers are not strong enough to pull it with just 2 or 1 finger. Another thing is that my bike wants me to touch the clutch lever with the handle grip only then can I smoothly shift the gears. I don't know if it's the clutch adjustment or if it's suppose work like that on my bike. if I pull the clutch lever with 2 fingers then my other 2 fingers gets pinched. I ride an Indian version of KTM 390 Adventure.
i use 2 fingers on or off road, a lot easier with hydraulic clutch though
Fortunately, the only thing I need to correct is grip over clutch - I am a 4 finger guy. This comes from clutch feel - I prefer to put the clutch lever in all the way to change, and only using 2 or 3 fingers I find myself pinching the remaining one or two on the grip with the stock levers. Any suggestions for a good stubby 2 finger clutch lever for a 1250GSA?
Offroad or even onroad, the TOES should be on the footpeg. Yes, if you have debris anywhere around, your foot can get caught and bent downward around the footpeg, breaking all the bone in the way. It's a common fault on almost every motorcycle rider I see on the road or on the trail. Been there. Done that. Been riding for over 50 years. You steer with your FEET, not your arms or especially your butt. Knees tight in to the tank are also a major factor. I've never used more than one finger on either the clutch or the brake. 70% of your stopping power above 30 mph is from the front brake and a non-ABS bike can put you on the ground in a hurry if applied with too much force.
MTB riders these days are also taught to use 1 finger on the brake levers, 2 at most, especially on the better hydraulic disc brakes. One is all you need since the brakes generally have good leverage and the levers are long enough for 1 or 2 fingers. Also you get to keep a good grip on the handlebars. Not a firm deathgrip but just the right amount for control.
And being much much lighter than a fully loaded ADV bike, the stakes are much higher in the washout and endo departments if you accidentally do a 4-fingered grab on an MTB front brake.
Good tip on the foot position too; very eye-opening. I'll watch my subconscious foot position the next time I ride out to see if I get to stick to this. 👍
Depends on the motorcycle, my Buell is one or 2 fingers on the front brake, and 4 on the clutch, it is a sporty, so a hard clutch pull. My 2022 Triumph Street Twin is 2 on the clutch going out, but 4 pulling it, otherwise I have 2 fingers trapped under the lever.
Brett, do us all favour and don't teach bad habits.
Get off your bike when it has completely stopped and you put the side stand down, is not a good or a clever technique for getting off a bike.
Other than that piece of advice keep up the good work. ; -)
Caught my feet 2x this past weekend riding a skinny bike in CO single track through trimmed windfalls. One ripped a buckle off of a Tech 3, the other twisted my foot & launched me off the bike. Wake up call for sure.
"Flipperfeets" are also dangerous on tarmac, sharp corners, toes touch the tarmac and will dig itself between the ground and the peg. Not a nice feeling ;)
I'm 63. I started riding off road on a Bultaco Lobito 100 at age 8. Since age 16, I have been riding both dirt and street and dirt, I've had over 50 different street legal bikes (pretty much everything but crotch rockets, I don't mess with trash like that) I have over one million street miles, and have never gone down on the street. Back when I was a kid I crashed a lot, learning how to do wheelies, jumps, and slides. No serious injuries. As a teenager I raced MX, where I did wind up with a few fairly serious injuries, which is why I had to give it up. I wasn't the only one, every weekend usually more than one rider would be out due to injuries from the week before. Some showed up to watch, in casts and on crutches. It's part of the deal, or at least it was back then.
I agree with you on foot position, but as for how many fingers you should use on the brake and clutch, that depends on many things. The bike, the brake, the clutch, how much strength and control you have in your hands, and the terrain. I can use 4 fingers on the brake safely, because I have good control of my fingers. Whether I'm using one finger or four (assuming one finger is enough) is irrelevant. I have the ability to apply the right amount of pressure on the brake no matter how many fingers I am using. Controlling a motorcycle is not a simple task. You have to make thousands of calculations per second. It's like reaching for a glass of water on a table in front of you. You first movement will not be very accurate. But as you hand gets closer to the glass of water, you fine tune your movements more and more. Being just slightly off will result in your either missing the glass altogether, or knocking it over. Riding a motorcycle requires the same kind of precision. As for the clutch, it does not need to be quite as precise as the brake in most cases. Anyone who can ride can control the clutch well enough to be able to take off without stalling the bike, or taking off with the front wheel in the air. Remember, the clutch and throttle must be used together and well coordinated. Some bikes have a really light clutch that you can use properly with one finger, while some, like my Harley, actually require 4 fingers due to the physical effort required. Remember, the rear brake also requires a lot of precision, due to weight transfer when braking. It is very easy to unload the rear wheel and lock it up. Years ago, when I was younger and in better condition, I use to love doing tight fast left hand circles on dirt bikes, right up to the point where the rear wheel slid out and the bike went down on the left side. Never got hurt doing that, but it was hard on bikes.
BTW, that little stunt you did at 4:40, where you hopped off the bike while it was still moving, with the stand up, was not very smart. I can just see someone trying that, and dropping the bike on top of them. At my age, I have to stop the bike, put the stand down, and slowly get off. That's good practice even if you don't have to do it that way.
hello ,guy ,I just want to say thank you very much of this Vedio ,I am a new driver ,my first time drive out for my travel is a 13 days 5000 km one ,and 1000 km of the road is off load ,I did not image the challenge is so hard for me and the plenty hwy in Australia is full of sand and rock and some even big cover hole .I feel so lucky I learned the right hand position and skill ,and it really really help me lot of times and make me feeling so lucky to finish the trip .thanks very much again !!! and wish you good luck . 感谢！！！！
Funny, I came into motorcycles from mountain bikes. I used to ride about 30 miles every evening on bridalways and farm tracks in England. I didn't like the long levers the bike came with, so I switched to two finger Shimano alloy levers as one of my first upgrades. So eight years later when I did my motorcycle training they dinged me for always having two fingers over the brakes and to train me out of that they taped my fingers together on my right hand. So I got into the habit, on the 7 day course, of engine braking and using the rear brake because I didn't want to let go of the bar to grab the brake with four when I was just trundling to a stop. The examiner failed me for it, said it was excessive reliance on the rear brake, which in the book is only a warning. Eventually I got that test fee refunded, but in the short term I took the test again two days later. Same examiner. Now he wanted to know how I'd trained myself out of that bad habit in two days (and why the school had made an official complaint against him for failing me). I told him what happened and he laughed and said "amateurs". Their fear was that as a learner I'd panic and grab the brake. But as a mountain biker with maybe eight thousand off road miles, I was long past the panic braking stage. As to the duck feet, I point that out to my wife every time I see it. There's a lot of pressure in the UK to ride properly. So one foot on the ground at lights, and picking it straight up onto the peg when you start moving. Stopping the bike is almost at a stop when one foot casually descends. And best to have it in 1st before you stop, so you don't have to swap sides to get first if you are on a hill and holding on the back brake. Things you get grief for include bad foot position, not doing life savers, paddling or dragging your feet when you start or stop, bad clothing, bad helmet, bad boots, bad gloves, tinted visors, bad road position. Basically you are always being watched and talked to. We had six Kawasaki GPz 750s at one place I worked and one guy never cleaned his. The reason there were so many identical bikes was that one of us was a Kawasaki dealer. So one day he brought the shop van and cleaned and serviced the guys bike while he was at lunch. When the recalcitrant owner returned he was told "And don't let it get like that again." He never did.
And many riders don't practice front braking when off roading. I have even had some tell me they thought they weren't supposed to touch the front brake off road, a major piece of misinformation.
The front brake is your friend, in ALL riding situations. It's the lack of knowledge on how and when to use it that will bite you, so practice.
I modified (lengthened) the clutch arm on my old KLR so that I could comfortably use it with 2 or three fingers. Stock it was just too much for a long day of technical riding, the mod greatly improved feel and allowed for a better experience.
First thing you do when riding is buy a small bike and get used to how it flicks on sticks or stones. Stand on the pegs as shown knees to grip the tank with the back end it will if enough traction is maintained you can flick back by body language standing up. Sitting down doesn't work on difficult sections. Haven't subscribed as I use to race enduro. Don't buy 1100cc and expect it to handle in the dirt.
Aussie Jeff Moore
Tho I'm from Alaska, I was visiting family in Idaho a couple weeks ago and spent some time around the Yellow Pine area....awesome country around there! I have metal in both knees and ankles with no wish to add more, so keeping my feet and knees in is very important to me, along with riding mostly on the balls of my feet. I try to always ride with two fingers on brake and clutch but do find a third finger creeping in on the clutch quite often. Not great at it yet, but when giving the throttle a blip to cross mud, water, or up an embankment, having the third and fourth fingers on the handlebars really helps the control! Another great video, Brett....cheers!
Another aspect of keeping fingers on the grips is not only retaining mechanical control, but giving feedback for better proprioceptive awareness - always knowing where our body is in space and time. Think of standing on a 4x4, or something narrow and high enough to consciously activate balance control. Have a wall or pole nearby. Stand on that and just touch the wall or pole. Not gripping, leaning or putting weight, but just touching enough to feel the temperature of the surface. With this tiny bit of input our brains will reckon our location in time and space and will not lose balance unless another force intervenes. Having a hook on the grips is good form for good reasons, but it also give constant data as to where we actually are, which is on a motorcycle. When given good data the body corrects itself (along with good training) in much the same way a bike will correct itself after being jarred by a rock. Proprioception is our native native gyro and accelerometer. Seems kind of duh, where else would I be? But this kind of input is essential to active and aware body placement which is vital to a great riding experience. After all, if we wanted to be passive would could just get into our cars, eh?
Tim & his wife are a great couple!!
we stopped in last August and she was cooking supper for folks working on the mine there and we got to eat some of her homemade spaghetti!! Ohh my Gosh!! The BEST ever!! The 3 of us from Arkansas had a fantastic meal in Yellow Pine thanks to them!!