Owen Jones meets Alastair Campbell - full length interview
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 вер 2017
- Alastair Campbell was the mastermind behind the New Labour machine, the spin doctor who did his best to ensure Tony Blair and Gordon Brown's project was given the best coverage possible.
I met with him to talk about the final years of New Labour, discussing his reputation as an aggressive, Machiavellian schemer, his suspicions that Gordon Brown may have been involved in an attempted coup against Tony Blair and the fallout from the disastrous Iraq war.
We also discussed whether the years of stress working at the top of the political pile had contributed to Campbell's long-term suffering with mental health problems, including depression. He reveals his often violent dreams, including one involving Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and an axe.
In terms of today's politics Campbell told me about his surprise at Jeremy Corbyn's campaign for the 2017 general election, though he says he's yet to 'drink the Kool-Aid' when it comes to Labour's vision for Britain's future. He's especially critical on Brexit, where he believes Corbyn and John McDonnell should be doing more to stop Theresa May's rightwing Conservatives driving us off a 'cliff-edge'.
In the UK the Samaritans can be contacted on 116 123. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255. In Australia, the crisis support service Lifeline is on 13 11 14. Other international suicide helplines can be found at www.befrienders.org.
Subscribe to The Guardian on UA-cam ► is.gd/subscribeguardian
Support the Guardian ► support.theguardian.com/contr...
Today in Focus podcast ► www.theguardian.com/news/seri...
Sign up for the Guardian documentaries newsletter ► www.theguardian.com/info/2016...
The Guardian ► www.theguardian.com
The Guardian UA-cam network:
Guardian News ► / guardianwires
Guardian Football ► / guardianfootball
Guardian Sport ► / guardiansportvideo
Guardian Live ► / guardianmembership
Guardian Culture ► / guardianculturearts
Astonished at how childish Owen Jones is in this interview, does himself no favours. Uses it as a strange power-play at times when he realises Campbell is effortlessly dominating the discussion.
Grown-up vs child.
Are you mad???…
Owen owns this …end ov
@@leeforsythgriffiths Does he? Campbell was right in the end
I'd like to see an updated 2020 version of this interview
it would be the same..these people hate britain and love the EU and its banker friends.
Joe Short you and me both Joe.
Just about to write exactly this, it just looks 'so' naive now, the question is will Corbynistas concede that maybe they'd misread the lay of the land or will they just double down
Jesus Christ Jones give him a chance to reply! 😡
Chris Lane they’ll double down and find literally any reason to blame for their failure apart from Corbyn and his brand of politics. Whether it be “sabotaging from the Blairites”, the Murdoch Media, or that the country is just full of horrible racists, the blame will never be placed at the foot of Jeremy Corbyn, because doing so would mean acting as mature adults and accepting defeat. They’ll always believe they got it all right and they’ll never concede.
There are several million Corbyn voters who voted for Tony Blair not once but three times (including once after the invasion of Iraq) yet claim to have despised him forever
And what was the alternative?
Whiffy McBiffy this aged well mate.
"You must also accept that the fact that the Tory campaign was so bad...will be changed at the next election. And you've got to start to think ahead to that." Turned out to be spot on.
Yep. Campbell as usual is correct.
Owen was right about the potential electoral damage to Labour of not supporting Brexit referendum result though...
Owen should rewatch this. Everything Campbell warned him about came true
Owen was right about the potential electoral damage to Labour of not supporting Brexit referendum result though...
yeah, holyshit, if only alastair campbell is working for corbyn
@@yenaskitegar3140 Corbyn would be starting wars and licking the boot of the Americans
@@DisobedientSpaceWhale Nope! Corbyn supported a hard Brexit, which is what we now have, all to pander to a bunch of racists/xenophobes in 50 odd seats. At the next election, millions of people will refuse to vote Labour because of that hard brexit choice...
People like me will never again vote Labour in London, because Labour is taking us for granted and letting the racists win...
@@johnbarrett915 Cobryn campaigned for remain....how do you get "hard Brexit" from that?!
Christ, Owen didn't come out of that well. Passive-agressive snideness off the chart.
Totally! Owen was so much calmer and adult, frankly, in his interview with Peter Hitchenson two years before.
@@rodoherty1 I suspect that Owen is closer to Hitchens in his politics than he (Owen Jones) would care to admit.
He rendered it unwatchable. I gave up I couldn’t handle Owens obnoxiousness on this one.
This David Brent performance from Owen Jones is spot on.
Alastair was brilliant. Owen showed how closed minded he is
I was about to say the same thing
I find Alastair's podcast with Rory Stewart compulsive listening. They both come across as intelligent and thoughtful. Unfortunately, Owen Jones is still playing student politics.
The fact that he has to tell him on more than one occasion 'it's more complicated than that' is significant. A bit like a father son debate. Owen reducing every situation and failing to grasp the inevitable nuance that actual life experience teaches us. He talks like a student of politics and no more.
Far too much sexual tension in this one, keep more on topic next time please.
That's the only thing watchable about it
Owen Jones is overcompensating badly for lack of natural/instinctive bravado, and it comes across as arrogant in this interview.
Alistair Campbell got it absolutely right about how the dynamics of the 2019 election would play out.
Hate to say it but yeah, I think we also faced a more serious opponent this time they actually went for us and we had less defense.
He did, but he also supported a second ref, a policy which killed labour
Love how within three minutes he basically admits to being Malcolm Tucker 👌
Pretty sure comments are getting deleted here
I can't understand what's happened to you Owen. You used to be thoughtful, friendly, polite. You were rude to Alastair. You certainly should have apologised profusely for being late. Your questions were odd, aggressive, overtly hostile. I'm disappointed.
Angie Pedley he needs to be treated with respect, I would have apologised for being late.
I know this is a year and a half later, but I see Alastair and Owen as two people who passionately and even viciously disagree with one another, but take great pleasure in slight barbed attacks. Campbell isn’t passive here, he’s just a lot more skilful in the manner of his attacks on Jones’ views, as I would expect of the former King of Spin.
flower nct You mean between the Labour Party and new labour.
I have the impression that they enjoy / like each other, despite their disagreements.
Well this didn't age well for Owen...
Watch it again?
You were bit of a jerk about being late
ForwardMcburn Being late is more forgivable than the Iraq war, though
Connor Ovington i tried that with my manager the other day.......didn't go down well.
There's a GQ video where Alistair Campbell is interviewing Owen and Owen was late for that interview too. :D You'd think he'd be a little apologetic second time round, but instead less than thirty seconds after getting through the door he whips out "You've got to plan for things, have you? Like Iraq?". Hahaha
At least we did something. The anti-war movement doesn't have a great track record, Rwanda, DRC, Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq from 1979-2003
If you would stand and watch Saddam Hussein and his crimes, you are the one that has explaining to do.
Ollie Not our problem. I feel bad for the people who suffered under Hussain but we have no right to be the world police especially when we're so chummy with Saudi Arabia
Campbell gives the best political interviews
Just to clarify Owen Jones hates new labour
lol this buffoon OJ would rather sit crying on the sidelines than make the country fairer as new labour did.
I lold
@@yungstasag it’s the only way he’s be able to stay relevant.
Difference between Owen Jones and Alastair Campbell is that Campbell wants to know the truth and Owen wants what he believes in to be true
This interview made me lose respect for Owen Jones. He doesn't want to watch the interview with Tony Blair? They guy who won 3 elections? Like the left doesn't want to learn at all. Being rude for being corrected on grammar? Like he didn't want to learn when he was at school. Sounds like he is representing the babies who grew older but never grew up. I think he has changed in the last 3 years (watching it in 2020, 3 years after this interview).
And he didn't even apologise for being late
And of course Alastair Campbell is a very smart guy
this was a few months after Campbell interviewed Owen for GQ and Campbell wiped the floor with Owen.
20 minutes in, where is your professionalism Jones? Arrived late, asks questions in a deliberately insulting way, tells Alistair what he should think. This is a pattern when Owen interviews people he doesn't like, viewers might not like campbell either, but its not an excuse for poor journalism.
Roderick Cox I totally agree
Actually, it seems clear to me that these two like each other, despite their different opinions. They're having a conversation between equals, rather than a formal question and answer. I'm American, so I don't know how much this is typical in the UK, but I find it refreshing.
Roderick Cox Poor professionalism not journalism. Owen is a great gonzo journalist, since when do you need to be a professional to be any good at that?
Have to agree, am generally a fan of Owen, but some of this interview feels immature and unprofessional - particularly in the first half - second half seems to improve
Who said you need to be kind and polite in an interview?
An idealist meets a pragmatist
Owen Jones is too left wing for this country. His brand of politics will never win a party an election or be in office.
Campbell was so correct in this
Owen was right about the potential electoral damage to Labour of not supporting Brexit referendum result though...
@@DisobedientSpaceWhale How many times did you post this comment?
@@iangascoigne8231 I can't remember, it was 10 months ago.
@@DisobedientSpaceWhale You really needed to come up with something else.
@@DisobedientSpaceWhale Yes you did. You posted the same comment numerous times in different threads.
I like Campbells honesty, you can see he quite clearly is still very passionate about the Labour party and will say what he thinks whether it's the fashionable thing or not.
Currently admiring Campbell's patience and restraint
Enjoyed the interview. Good questions Owen. Mr Campbell is a pro and handles this with ease. Keep them coming Owen, I love the channel. Well done Alistair with your work on mental health
I love how Owen Jones walk in with the thick of it style jokes 😂
the camera shakes are spot on
I must have missed that bit.
Can't tell if they hate each other or are flirting :/
SUPERB interview. Both came across really well and seemed to have a great chemistry despite their differences. A fascinating watch.
“Both came across really well” were you watching something else to the rest of us. Owen comes across as a child despite being in his 30s. It’s a disgrace he is paid as a journalist and calls himself one.
I wonder how Owen Jones feels after Labour did suffer their worst election defeat post WW2 under Jeremy Corbyn as he used in this interview against Alastair Campbell. Owen's refusal to even listen or try to understand other politicians point of views i.e. Tony Blair and Nick Clegg in this interview highlights the key issue in todays society where people are so intolerant of other people's views.
Owen is so in denial over his beliefs there's no way he accepted the 2019 election result as being Corbyn's or the far left's fault.
Owen was right about the potential electoral damage to Labour of not supporting Brexit referendum result though...
Some folk just don't want to tolerate mass murderers and war criminals, I guess.
The way these two personalities play off eachother is very very entertaining.
Hopefully there is another one of these interviews in the works.
alistar campbell interviewed owen jones for gq a while ago it's just as enjoyable to watch
Social democracy socdems
Owen's gone mad now, I don't think he even does interviews anymore.
It must be painful for many concerned, that Alistair Campbell not only comes out of this very very well as a principled and likeable guy, but also as a guy who has been proved right by recent history. 💯
Never heard a whisper from the right wing loons when Blair were in charge and Campbell was our Machiavelli. They did a hell of a lot of good for this country,
Look at us now. We're fucked. They gave the DUP a billion and we still can't build a lead over them!
The right rule and we're about to plunged into more hysterical illogical right wing ideological nonsense.
i'd have him back in a flash.
hear hear
I'm going to watch this. I want to watch this. However, even in the first 30 second Owen Jones comes across as thoroughly unlikeable and infantile. It's difficult to proceed impartially when the interviewer's opening gambit leaves you feeling nauseous; he's acting like he's the 'funny one' in his group of friends but outwith that circle one discovers he is more than a mite cretinous. I will plod on...
Well said.
"I dont have time to listen to Tony Blair"
2 minutes later quotes Tony Blair in an interview
Jason I think he was being pithy
Fascinating. Huge difference between being in government and doing stuff and standing on the sidelines throwing things at those who are doing stuff.
Owen Jones is extremely closed minded starting to lose interest in the guy.
I consider myself a lefty, and I'm not saying I agree with everything Alistair stands by and his values, but I think the interview was a bit overly hostile to him than necessary. He does have a set if beliefs about the way the modern world works and has his doubts about Corbyn, I think it's important to at least hear what he has to say. He does make some valid points about how the level of scrutiny under the next labour manifesto for a future election will be far more substantial, and we need to be prepared for that.
I'm not saying we sacrafice our values or anything like that, I too was left feeling disenfranchised during the Blair and Brown administration when a reversal of some of Thatcher's most punishing policies did not go through like I wanted. But let's at least understand the challenges we face going into the next election and better prepare to meet those demands so we can secure primeminster Corbyn
Alistair disagrees with you - he's made it clear to people lie you that he's a big boy, used to debating like an adult, and is even a little baffled by responses like yours. What the hell is wrong with serious, strenuous debate and disagreement?
Did you see the previous interview they did? He was pretty hostile to Owen.
you have a read about the history of iraq, say from ww2 to the present and come back. and i wouldnt announce your ideology at the beginning of a post, fair or unfair it comes across as a lame defence of your following remarks
Alex Daniel I haven't seen the other interview. If true, I don't think it makes a difference anyway because two wrongs don't make a right. One of the many factors that drew me to Corbyn was his move away from what he refers to as "personality" politics. He doesn't promote the nonsense insults and one-off jokes that recent Tory leaders use during PMQs all the time.
Cameron and May hurled abuse at him at every turn and kept trying to rip apart his credibility. But he stayed true to his values and didn't retaliate, and I think it was admired greatly. I feel like this tone needs to be adopted more during debates (particularly for debaters on the left) to demonstrate we can rise above the insults that the opposition makes.
ac1dP1nk I never mentioned Iraq in my comment, I imagine we agree that the war was illegal, unnecessary and the aftermath was just a mess.
Remember we are on the same page here politically (we share the same square on the compass). I want to see Prime minister Corbyn come the next election, and I'm not even making a criticism on him specifically. I'm trying to offer my two cents on where I think left can improve further and gain the little more support we need to enter government. Simply willing to debate the issues maturely and be able to listen and address the concerns of those very close to joining the ship will go a long way towards achieving this. Not saying that the majority don't do this, but occasionally interviews like this demonstrate somewhat what I'm saying and I think it can make our cause come across more childish than it really is.
One of the best interviews I've seen you do. Asked a lot of the questions that I've wanted to know the answer too, in contrast to the last interview with Al. Good work.
Loved this interview, great dynamic. Very telling on where the differences in Labour lay currently. I think Alistair was spot on for most of this.
Campbell is a brilliant strategic thinker and is peerless in his knowledge of conducting campaigns. I also think that Campbell is far less machiavellian than he's made out to be.
Owen, I'm new to your channel. I started by watching your interview of Peter Hitchens, then Anna Soubery ....IMO this is the worst interview of the 3. In this interview your disrespect and bias clearly shows, yet this guy is politically a lot closer to your opinions. Why can't you conduct a dispassionate interview with the people on the left like you do with those on the right? This is terrible
An interview to remember. Excellent work.
Owen comes over really badly in this - rattled, chippy, combative without substance. Lost on points.
OJ is so simple-minded. Say what you like about Campbell but he's in a different class.
Thanks, Campbell is a war criminal and mass murderer, he's in the same class as Blair, Bush and Putin.
I normally enjoy Owen's interviews - but this was flippant, petulant, petty point scoring journalism at it's worst. Glib off hand comments which in some cases were distasteful. This could have been a really good interview - ruined by Owen clearly trying constantly to get one over on AC.
its, not it's
@@nkenchington6575 He's a descriptivist
Stephen Turner I think he was just being pithy. They clearly disagree on political grounds but they also clearly get along
@@thomasmohan9565 didn't really work. It made him look petty and childish.
Can't take Owen Jones seriously, think he let him self down with teenage quips
Owen Jones has I feel a fixed personality , he's never grown up . He's still an immature student , yet he s mid to late 30s ! That is a worrying thing .
Goodness me, I would find it hard to believe that OJ can watch this back without squirming with embarrassment.
Some of this has aged poorly for Owen.
Owen Jones represents everything that is wrong with the Labour party these days.
This is an extremely captivating interview.
Im Labour, I like Starmer, I can not stand Owen Jones. Even though Campbell voted libdem in the EU elections, I find it horrible how owen treats Campbell in this interview.
I really enjoyed watching that. Could see there was a love-to-hate vibe coming from both of them
Owen, in general I love what you are about. But this interview should be lesson for you in the future. As emotional as you may feel towards a particular person or subject, try to always remain professional and objective.
Peace
I don't love what he's about, and he's always emotional and never remains professional and objective. Lol
this duo is marvellous!!
Alistair Cambell proved right over the majority of this debate but still was a fabulous session. Owen would be great on "The Rest is Politics"
I’ve seen some bad interviewers, talking over and answering their own question, being defensive and ranting, but wow Owen. This sucked.
Part II, the first one for GQ was brilliant. I really like how you interact with each other.
Sebastian Aleksandriytzin Which one is most detested by the Serfs ??
I think what’s slightly dishonest from Owen Jones is how on some issues (tax, public spending, nationalisation etc) he wants to stick to principles and ideology yet on Brexit he doesn’t, and is happy for Corbyn to fudge. I quite like Owen Jones, I think he’s got an interesting perspective but I think he falls too easily into the factional debates of the left, choosing to defend Corbyn rather than maintaining a consistent approach to how a labour leader should act.
I liked the interview. I found both interesting and intelligent.
I've always been keen on Mr Campbell, no need to demonise him. Be grownups!
rewatching this now Owen was very naive,he should just sit back an take notes from Alistair, its like Alistairs schooling his little bro
I respect Alistair campbell more from this interview than I did previously, and Jones less so.
its entertaining to see such furious journalism played out so calmly
Thing is Corbyn’s good for raising awareness about injustice, but he’s incapable of acting on it.
I dont know if Owen Jones is arrogant in his ignorance or ignorant in his arrogance.
Watching OJ squirm to justify his faux pas during the ‘less vs fewer’ segment was superb 😂
As a boy, he was delighted with the Blair government when it was elected. How people love to rewrite their own history...
Great interview
Amazingly Owen Jones comes across as by far the bigger tosspot in this encounter.
It's sort of analogous to a Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah match in that regard.
Not that amazing. It's generally the case. Lol
@@wilverbal always thought King Ghidorah was a massive tosspot.
I read last week that Owen went to Oxford. He is a member of the Liberal, middle class Metro-Elite, who poses as a revolutionary.
Alastair Campbell is still Blair's spokesman and so there's lots of important questions that need asking of him, and in this interview they were asked. Good stuff.
Alastair Campbell is right in much of what he said. I worked with asylum seekers from Kurdistan, many of them fled for their lives from the Iraqi regime. Saddam Hussein was gassing Kurdish villages and Marsh Arabs. The Kurdish I spoke with at the time were in full support for the war. The mistake was made by George Bush senior in not taking out the regime in 1990. The second mistake was the lack of planning for the future after the regime was toppled.
The problem is does one intervene like in Syria or let these regimes kill their citizens and simply turn a blind eye and follow a pacifist role like Corbyn would do.
Cut to one and a half years later and Campbell was absolutely right about Brexit. Owen Jones was completely off the mark, and has indeed got too carried away with Corbyn :(
Alistair, I've voted Labour all my life. I voted for Tony, I voted for Gordon, I voted for Corbyn. I'm a HUGE Corbyn fan. I was overjoyed when someone on the left (not hard left, let's be sensible) took control of the party. Jeremy is a man who genuinely cares.
I think Tony fucked up, but I still look fondly on the TB-GB years. Labour did many great things and I always take pains to point this out when people are trashing Blair.
Just mentioning that, because we do exist.
Tony Blair was one of the most successful PMs ever, you can insult him put him down as much as u want but you won't take that off him. I'd vote for him now as corbynov won't get in and I won't vote for Conservatives
I stuck this out despite being quite put off by your behaviour at the start! Very interesting interview, glad you were able to come to a more civilised conclusion.
Good interview Owen. I don't usually have time for Alastair Campbell but for once this was quite entertaining and interesting.
Cambell was plain formidable with just joviality.
I agree, I could at least bear to watch this one
Fun fact: Malcolm Tucker was based on Alistair Campbell
I love Owen preaching about how Corbyn was gonna transform Labour's fortune. I have a tip for everyone, if there are 59 numbers in the lottery, ask Owen to pick 52. Based on every video I have ever seen, he will get every single number wrong and boom, you're a winner.
If we had had a general election instead of a referendum on Brexit, Corbin would have been Prime Minister. But i think the window of opportunity was small, populism was on the rise and that cohort of voters who would have swung it on a Jeremy being the wind of change, anti establishment warrior, ticket had their heads turned by Trumpism and rise of the new right. As it stands and stood in the past the left wing of the Labour party and socialist community in Britain will not be enough to win a general election, they need "middle England" the whole of Scotland and bits of Wales as an and/or prop, that means Blair like compromise on something, to keep those voters, in Blairs case the preceding Thatcher economic reforms and policies of private ownership of utilities.
Isn't it remarkable just how like the Thick of It the start of this feels? Oh, and there's Tucker.
Stark contrast in this interview to the GQ one which owen was soo vaunrable before Jezza's election
Lovely man
I would pay good money for his dream journal.
I'm not a Campbell fan whatsoever but he does make me laugh
He is 'funny', as war criminals and mass murderers go.
55:45 is why Campbell got to where he did and Owen is a journalist
The look that Campbell gives him at the beginning after Jones says, "...in we go."
Interesting interview, would have liked to see more questions on the focus group politics and how this has arguably damaged democratic politics, treating voters as consumers rather than rational citizens who are able to understand and make choices based on ideology, facts and reasoning. It's telling when Campbell says 'we would have figured out Cameron', we would have figured out a way to our PR him he's essentially saying.
Also Owen Jones talks too much about public services RE new labour, the issue with new labour is they let the banks and big business run riot. PPI as well as revolving doors, would have liked to hear more about that rather than simply going on about under invested public services.
Anyone who watched the full video would understand that they have a bring 'frenemy' thing going on.
Owen has no clue what people think about him. How would he know? Any criticism, however mild, any disagreement with him on social media & he blocks people. There is certainly someone in this interviews with Machiavellian traits
I'd love to see an update following the election last year !!
This man sent the ‘Dogy Dossier’ 13 page document saying Iraq had WMD’s. He went and sent this to all news outlets which led to the UK joining the US in the Iraq war resulting in 1 Million deaths.
Owen we need a part 2
One day Owen is going to tire of his constant moral grandstanding and become a proper, grown up journalist
I'm not sure that he is..
We’re in 2022, and he hasn’t.
A lot of whinging about the tone of the debate in this comments section, but I would describe the tone as "cut-and-thrust". These are clearly two people who know each other and are well-acquainted, and are being open and candid about their views and arguments.
Largesse1000 In what way do you believe they are deluded and self-serving? And do you believe that doesn't apply to centrist politicians (Alastair Campbell is a centrist by the way) and right-wing politicians?
@@rp1455 Because people like then both, who have never been at the bottom of the damn pecking order of this country, Owen is a self confessed middle class lad, what gives him the right to speak for the working class whom he has no idea about the lives of, he went onto Oxford didn't study journalism yet works for the independent and guardian, whilst many working class background journalist can't get a job for these papers. His parents are very well nit into the labour party and have been for some time, so it's fair to say simply Owen too is part of the political elite he apparently hates so much. Add to that the little idiot claims that ALL journalist are entitled, private educated elites, yet wont apologise to journalist from working class backgrounds who are obviously not part of an elite as most simply work in their local areas for those newspapers, he did the thing he so outright hates stereotyping and clumping a mass of people into category. I can not for life of me no matter how i try like or agree with anything that comes out of his entitled mouth. How about he hands in his p45 at the guardian and let them take on a working class background journalist? He can go get a job in the thing he got his degree, apparently no matter what he does as a middle class lad, he wont fail and will always to better than the working class. Says it all really that he believes that yet he has a better job that working class lads and ladies who have had to work much harder to get to university and get a job, but some employees like the guardian only take those from the best universities like Oxford, the exact reason why Owen got the journalist jobs he has. Total hypocrisy is just unreal. He's entitled pure and simple, so much so he doesn't feel he has to apologise for being late, entitled little middle class, Oxford graduates don't have to apologise to anyone, friend, foe or otherwise.
AC shld've picked up on OJ's blatant lie "the vast majority of British people condemned the Iraq war"
Owen has gone full Corbynista.
NaiiFluur maybe, but Owen has always been very anti Blair.
TOM Bows and Alli stair is pro blair, and blair killed many and still tries to sway democracy in this country
what a pity....
And that is a great thing!
The trouble is not that he supports Corbyn, but that it feels as though he isn't ever going to criticise him, for example about his failures on Europe.
that Irag comment like 20 seconds in was a bit cringe tbh
Was relatively funny come on
30 seconds in and I never want to hear of Owen Jones ever again.
Great chemistry. Would make for an excellent buddy movie.