Comics Industry: Linkara will never run out of material for Event Comics Month Me: That’s good. CI: Because the number of events we publish each year is growing exponentially. Me: That’s bad.
@@SteveElOtaku A member of Linkara's fandom will start a Simpsons quote and someone else will continue it till it's finished. This calls for a celebration with steamed hams!
@@SteveElOtaku A couple years back a local frozen yogurt shop added the flavor "Evil Matter" and it was de-li-cious so... maybe evil toppings are worth it?
Also, the whole confusing "Hakwman Merging" and "Hawkman fighting the Hawk God" is explained in his tie-in. Pretty much everything that's confusing about the miniseries, or that seems like it has no real meaning, is explained in a tie-in. The Time-Trapper thing finally gave the legion the proper reboot it didn't get in Crissis on Infinite Earths, and even explained WHY it wasn't rebooted with the rest of the DCU. This miniseries did a LOT of really interesting things with a number of characters.
Hawkman probably has the most confusing backstory in all of comics: He's an alien from Thanagar who crashed to Earth died and reincarnated into different versions who's sometimes an archeologist and sometimes an alien police officer and sometimes both and sometimes not. Also, I got the name for my second kid from Hawkman, (Carter).
James Cobb Have you read any of the latest Hawkman series, they are making an attempt to streamline his janky multiple origin backstory, only to cancel it again, if the rumors I see online are correct.
1:51 Well, in the final issue of Doomsday Clock, Dr. Manhattan says, and I quote, "It's July 2nd, 2025. A crises unlike any the metaverse has seen, one they will call "Time Masters", erupts...", so yeah. See you in 5 years, Linkara!
It was still very bad, but not nearly AS bad as Avengers #200. Power Girl still acknowledged, "This is a frickin' messed up thing you did," but her kid did not fall in love with her. Still rapidly aged, though.
Linkara: "Until Geoff John's reworked his backstory, DC considered Hawkman radioactive. Don't use him, don't mention him." Me: "Now Hawkman's radioactive! That can't be good!" Also Linkara: "We'll cover how DC screwed up Wally West later." Me: "Oh God, we're covering Heroes in Crisis later, aren't we?"
Yeah, Heroes In Crisis is scheduled as the last review for this month's Event comics. I'm expecting a lot of ranting on Linkara's part, I hear that one is...a class all its own in doing a character dirty.
@@AC-gb7do at least Flash Forward revived wally's kids and restored his mariage with linda. sure at the cost of wally losing his humanity but scott snyder is working his magic already fixing that one Also, DC Comics finally fixed Hawkman's near imcomprehensible backstory by saying "he just reincarnated across different points and places in time-space continuum ". AKA "maybe he had a live in planet earth, America in the 1940's, got killed, and then his next life was in the planet Thamaraan, in the year 2020, got kiled and then his next life might hae been again on Earth, but in egypt in the 4000 BC". just to say an example
Me: Wait a minute Crisis in Time didn't come out two decades ago it came out in the 90's. [Realises that the 90's WAS in fact two decades ago] Me: damn I am getting old :(
The fact the plan to make Hal evil was all done in a weekend is both hilarious and also not much of a surprise. EDIT: Also apparently the original story they were gonna do was about fake Guardians of the Universe and The Green Lantern Corp has to figure out who’s the original, so essentially a space clone saga.
We spends years waiting for an answer, get loads of red herrings and pointless stories, come to a close multiple times but get faced with more padding and then the whole thing ends with it turning out to be Sinestro was behind it because we had written ourselves into a corner along the way, had a change in production lead and it turns out a character thought dead wasn't so he is behind this. Now lets never talk about this again (unless we can make a crappy event off it).
The Hawkman thing could have been resolved so easily if they'd just kept the Hawkworld mini-series set in the past like it was originally supposed to. The explanation that Katar's father worked with Carter Hall and slipped him the Nth metal and then used his hero identity to form the Thanagarian Hawk Police was all they needed. He then named his son after his friend. Everything makes sense, but they kept making it more complicated with Hawk Gods and avatars.
The part about the Justice Society and the sliding time-scale of comics reminds me of another comic character I feel might face similar issues in the future: Magneto. Like the Justice Society, Magneto is a character who's tied directly to a singular point in history and it forms a huge basis of his motivations and character. I've had talks with people about how the MCU would depict Magneto in the films since by the time he finally appears, he'd likely be 80-90 years old. Do you change his backstory to a more recent event? Give him slowed-aging as an extra power? Have him pull a Captain America and get frozen or something? I'm not sure how the comics are handling it, but I think it's a topic that future adaptations and the like will have to address.
Slow aging seem like the best bet it easy to believe some mutants just age slower, the real question is how to add mutants to the MCU, in the first place, I always thought the best place was after endgame after the snap but that seem like it not happening.
Jia Bryant My idea is that mutants have always existed, but they were rare. Very rare. Also, the vast majority of them have rather harmless physical mutations: Odd eye/hair colors, polydactyly, webbed toes, that kind of thing.
The only thing I think you could probably change Magneto's backstory to is being a survivor of the attempted genocides during the breakup of Yugoslavia in the 90's. It's a roughly similar backstory, and would fit well with the backstories of MCU Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch if they want to put that back into continuity.
@@Ridgwaycer it wasn't attempted. The Bosnian genocide was a real genocide committed by the Army of Republika Srpska against the Bosnian Muslims and others. I feel like appropriating that for the story might come off as insensitive to some people
As for how the comics I believe he got that serum that fury did to make them live longer. Plus I feel him dying and coming back might've slowed the aging issue there.
Kane Bravo he already confirmed on his website. Zero Hour House of M Secret Empire (those two might be reversed, I forgot the exact order he has) Heroes in Crisis.
My favorite part of Zero Hour is the Aquaman tie-in where he's just running around with a crude harpoon on his bloody arm because the #0 issue happened right after Charybdis plunged him into a pool of piranhas and he lost his hand.
I like the remakes/homages they do in the sinestro corps war arc there was a cover homaging that image where hall is wearing a dozen yellow rings rather than green, the animated green lantern series that hal went nuts wearing a dozen orange rings
yeah I chekced the website when this was uploaded to youtube to see whats coming and saw Heros in crisis. Even with the knowledge that House of M and Secret Empire are coming. both of which are baaaaaaad but nothing quite like heros in crisis can make you go "oh no this is going to be bad. and Linkara is going to wear out his voice with all that screaming"
@@bouddicathesleepinglioness3148 House of M was an interesting concept, as least. Not the terrible characterisation and ballooning power scale of Scarlet Witch, but in the Magneto side of it. Secret Empire was just a rip off of an older X-Men story. One that didn't blow up a hero for no reason at all...
@@pious83 I at least understand why Secret Empire happened it was a response to Trump and he was seen as a corruption of the soul of the nation I get why doing that to captain america seemed like a good idea and honestly in different hands it would be good. but fuck me what happened was baaaaad.
I read an interview with Dan Jurgens said the whole Zero Hour concept came to him because he wanted to revisit a storyline with Hawkman and Superman written in 1988. The story revolved around Hawkman taking Superman to the remains of Krypton. The editors at DC nixed the storyline because Hawkman was rebooted in late 1988 so the whole story couldn't have happened.
Barry's costume stayed because it resists the inertial effect The Flash experiences when he runs, so while Barry's sacrifice caused him to grind himself to death... his costume would have never been ground to death. Wally's costume stayed behind mainly as homage of Barry's death. Pol Manning was Hal's identity when he'd visit the future. Like how Wally is introduced in the 64th century, a lot of Silver Age DC Comics heroes would intermittently have adventures in the future, sort of how Superman and Jimmy Olsen would occasionally have off-genre adventures in the Bottle City of Kandor (where he and Jimmy basically cosplayed as sci-fi Batman and Robin, Nightwing and Flamebird). Kyle Rayner took a LONG time to reach his potential. He did eventually, but for the first 4 or 5 years, he wasn't considered to be much outside of his own title. Ah, 90s Hawkman. At least eventually people figured out what to do with ya. I completely disagree about the JSA and Golden Age heroes. There's no reason heroes "tied to WWII" ... have to be. SUPERMAN pre-dates WWII, and yet he's still a vital and important super-hero character. Even guys like Captain America don't HAVE to be tied to a certain timeline--in fact, a "completely new to the modern world" take on some of these characters could make for some interesting stories. Interesting mental gymnastics to paper over some questionable parts of their past, too, maybe. Anyway: you don't want the JSA tied to a specific point in history? Don't. Tie. Them. To. It. They're fictional characters! They can exist at *any* point in time.
I’m still partial to the JSA being a WW2 group like the Invaders at Marvel were. I do understand that it dates them, and that’s partially why Frank Castle isn’t a Vietnam vet anymore but, for me that aspect of his origin ‘feels’ right. For some reason, I don’t mind the FF being started in later decades though. 🤔
It weird that people want to tie the JSA, to the WW2, but the idea that there from that era, and due to plot reason are in modern time always was a good enough fix's for me, I mean not like they have to bring the full team just the character everyone like, Flash, Green Lantern and Wildcat, the rest can be replaced by there legacy.
Jia Bryant I don’t mind a few JSA legacy characters, or even cameos from the 7 Soldiers of Victory at times, but it’s an easy fix to keep characters tied to WW2, just say they’re from another Earth, Dr. Fate could summon them, then they could get ‘stuck’ in the modern era somehow and they could mentor their junior characters, AND bring Alan Scott/GL, Jay Garrick and Wildcat back just as easily. It’s a trope, but I’m a fan of ‘.characters out of time’ IF written well.
19:03 I know this series came out a decade or so earlier than Final Crisis, but... Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds actually explains this. Basically, the Time Trapper is supposed to be a physical embodiment of the worst possible timeline. Put simply, depending on the events of the present day, his identity will change to reflect the worst case scenario, and essentially, whatever timeline that is, his goal is to make sure that that timeline is what will happen.
You know, I've actually got an idea for how to keep the JSA's origins relatively consistent, and timeless: Move their golden age from World War 2 to a new fictional war that happened 30 years before the current comics. Not World War 3, just a war that put America at direct risk, and saw a rise in heroes willing to fight for their homes and country, especially since there are a lot of members of the JSA without powers, so having THAT be what sets the standard for what the DC Universe views as heroic gives some decent continuity for the universe.
It's comic books. There are dozens of ways they could do it and make them originally appear in the Revolutionary war if they wanted to. Easiest way would be to ice them like Captain America, or put them in a trans-dimensional stasis. They could make it the Iraq war. They could go history channel and just make the reason aliens. It could be magic. Time travel. Cybernetic replacements with their brains transferred to robot bodies. THe possibilities are only limited by the writers imaginations and editorial fiat. Which, really, is a pretty dangerous and disastrous limitation.
The problem with that is you have fictionalized a war within the universe. Thus you have created an entirely alternate history. You also lose the direct thematic empahsis of the Second World War, a conflict with the most direct, black and white, good vs evil in existence. No war fought in the past thirty years or more can make the same claim. More important to editors, you now forever lose the idea that this could be OUR world. That this comic has a relevant, similar past to our own. You have no created an entirely different history and outlined it very directly. Making the ability for fans to relate to this world, in the minds of editors, harder. This is why Marvel keeps trying to claim "The World outside your Window" with their comics. You lose that, you lose a direct tangible connection. Mindy ou, I do think that actually NEEDS to happen, because the disconnect is apparent already. The Marvel Universe ISN'T the world outside our window. The DC universe ISN'T comparable to our Earth's history. In both worlds, fantastic, insane, other worldly technology is the norm, magic is real, aliens are confirmed fact. DC and Marvel try to ground their stories in the reality of our world, but they can't because ultimately they AREN'T our worlds. Look no further to Civil War 2, where everyone treats the ability to tell the future as some amazing dangerous/useful new power when in reality its as mundane as jetpacks and flying cars are in this world. As both have existed before and will continue to do so in the future. Yet somehow, for whatever reason, we are expected to ignore every single time a character has had the ability to see the future or a means to determine it. It's stupid. So really, I say ultimately just go with something like that. Admit that this world is not reality and accept it. And figure out a way for the JSA to exist in it. Whether its through a new war, a time pocket or whatever. It's comics, you can and should be able to let your imagination run free.
Another problem with this idea is that it's pretty damn hard to come up with any way that America could be "put at direct risk" by a war that doesn't end in nuclear winter. The only reason war has existed at all since 1945 is because none of the wars have put nuclear-armed states "at direct risk". Only the invaders have ever had nukes, and never the invaded. If *America* gets invaded, it's unimaginable that it'd be done by a state that's weak enough to not have their own nukes. And you *know* they'll nuke the invaders out of existence, which will result in the invaders retaliating with their own nukes.
My understanding is that they kinda-sorta tried to do that in the New 52, specifically by moving the JSA characters _back_ to a new version of Earth 2 in a series titled... well, “Earth 2.” However, not only were the characters heavily-reimagined and reinvented in that series, but they were also aged down to the ages the originals had been back in WWII era comics, and the war was one that had just been fought. Also they weren’t called the JSA anymore. Those versions actually _did_ end up interacting with the “classic” JSA (from Pre-Crisis Earth-Two, no less) in the 2015 event Convergence, which altered time so that the original Crisis _didn’t_ destroy the original multiverse, allowing every world that had _ever_ existed to survive.
@@coredumperror you know, that gives me an idea for a different comic universe: what if the time of world war 2 were so ever changing (especially with the rise of super heroes AND a lot of time travellers wanting to kill hitler) that with so many changes and chaos there was a version of the timeline where america became the higher villain to beat after the nazis forcing the superhero community at the time to go against the country they once served? that the other timelines still existed in "Layers", all of them "overlaying each other" in the timeline, so by the time all that crisis got sorted out, the evtns that everyone remembers happening are mostly what happened in "Layer 1" (and reality got reality warped to fit that criteria. and super heroes got hidden Men in Black style) BUT in the present everyone gets their memories from WW2 from all the potential branches/layers i dunno, i got inspired with thati dea i wanted to share
@@MoojinBoiPersonally I don’t agree, they just made her into some generic evil queen there is really not much else to her other then being an evil gold digger. The old Sindel was a tragic character, a queen of a peaceful realm with a family until suddenly this asshole warlord destroyed it all by conquering it, subjecting her people, murdering her husband, and forced her to become his concubine. She then killed herself to get out of her grief and suffering which ends with her sacrifice creating a barrier to protect a realm in the future from Shao Kahns evil. And when she got resurrected she continued to be Shao Kahn’s plaything as he mind controls her making her act evil to the good guys when in reality she was just another one of Kahn’s victims. And once she broke free of that she continued to act like a good person. Despite all the shit she went through she still loves her daughter and her people and wants to continue to ensure that other realms don’t ever go through what she went through by an evil bastard. That’s far most compelling then an evil woman with the hots for an abusive monster.
your discussion about the distance from WW2 makes me genuinely worry for the future of Magneto. He's such a brilliant character, but to try and "modernise" his backstory would take away so much from it. I fear that the early 2000 X-Men movies may be the last we see of him in cinema.
Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was a retcon put in years after when he was introduced. Original Lee/Kirby Magneto was basically a basic Bwa-ha-ha world conqueror. And there were massacres and attempts at genocide after the Holocaust.
Technically it happened twice the 97 animated Magneto was retconned as not a survivor of the holocaust but escaped the mid to late 90s ethnic cleansing conflict in the Balkans where his wife and daughter was killed in their escape, thus making him younger and Fox at the time thought the actual holocaust was too intense for younger viewers.
@@shadowspider9thats kind of brilliant tbh. But honestly. I don't think they'd ever change how almost justifyingly vicious and Clos minded ol mags can be
I’m probably the only one at this point who now appreciates the Jason Todd Robin over the Damien Robin, and that’s coming from someone who called that 1 900 Kill Jason Todd number back in the day!
Zero Hour struck me as DC wanting to resolve the Monarch stuff, having a bash at it for the first half, then announcing “Screw it, we’re gonna wrap up _Green Lantern/Green Arrow_ instead”
For awhile DC hinted, but never outright confirmed, that the Joker knew Batman was Bruce Wayne, but Joker could never actually consciously acknowledge this because it would ruin all the fun and mystique of his battles with Batman. So it's completely possible that them giving away Batgirl's identity just went in one ear and out the other because it just didn't fit in with Joker's concept of reality.
@@stevenstice6683 it's more accurate to say that _a_ Waverider is New Earth's Booster Gold, but there are still two other characters (multiversal counterparts of each other) that used the name before him. The one (or two, depending how you want to count it) in _this_ event was originally named Matthew Ryder.
00:12 to 00:30 Nice logo. 2:48 I thought Zero Hour was an okay event, but the two-page spread of the DC timeline showing superheroes since Superman’s public debut being active since for ten years is a mindscrew for the readers. In my headcanon, it would make sense that all the heroes Since Superman’s public debut would be active for 23 years since Superman graduated from Superboy at 20 years old (or 35 years since Superman stated as the original Superboy at eight years old), making the JSA in their seventies, the JLA in their late-thirties or early-forties, the Titans and Infinity Inc. in their mid-twenties or early-thirties, and Young Justice be in their early or mid-teens. At least that would make sense timeline and continuity wise. Also, in my headcanon, Barry Allen’s debut as the Flash would happen five years after Superman’s debut, the JLA would form seven years after Superman’s debut, Flash of Two Worlds would happen nine years after Superman’s debut, the first JLA/JSA teamup would happen and the Titans would form as the Teen Titans ten years after Superman’s debut, the New Teen Titans and the Outsiders and Infinity Inc. would form fifteen years after Superman’s debut, the first Crisis would happen 17 years after Superman’s pubic debut, Legends would happen a year after the first Crisis, Millennium would happen two years after the first Crisis, Invasion would happen three years after the first Crisis, the JSA would return and the Death of Superman would happen five years after the first Crisis, and Zero Hour would happen six years after the first Crisis. That way, it would make a lot of sense to the readers. 12:36 to 12:43 Linkara is talking about Heroes in Crisis. 14:40 to 15:08 If I were DC, there would be two versions of Hawkman and Hawkgirl that coexisted in the Pre-Flashpoint continuity without any reboots or retcons that changed both characters. For example, the Golden Age Hawkman would debut in October 1939 and join the Justice Society of America in November 1940 and the Golden Age Hawkgirl would debut in June 1941 and join the All-Star Squadron in December 1941, while the Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl (later renamed and rebranded as Hawkwoman) arrived from Thanagar to Earth and made their debut in March 1961 (or eight years before Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1977, fourteen years before Zero Hour in 1980, 22 years before Infinite Crisis in 1984, 24 years before Flashpoint and 29 years before Rebirth in 1987, and 31 years before Dark Knights: Death Metal in 1989 in my version of the DC timeline, which would last 35 years between the start of the Silver Age in 1956 and Dark Knights: Death Metal in 2020) and joined the Justice League of America 13 years in real-time (or five years in sliding time) apart. Everything would be like it is or was Pre-Crisis and Pre-Flashpoint without any continuity errors, while Hawkworld would either be a Post-Crisis retelling of the Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl set in the past or would be an Elseworlds story. That is how I will set the continuity straight for the Golden and Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl.
I can't help but see that empty Flash costume as a weird sorta shadow monster that has been given new life inhabiting the Flash's old costume and wants to go around scaring people for Halloween, eat candy and waggle his arms around like a spaghetti.
That could actually be a neat flash villian concept. The shadow flash, the spirts of all of the flashes that died forming into the shape of the costume where it tries to take the flash’a life to have a life of its own.
the orginal emerald twlight plan reveled that the guardians killed hal's dad to make him the best green lantern. hal would have left after asorbing power from the central battery and became the protector. Though paralax would fit hal working as a hero outside the corps.
24:27 Hey, wait a minute. Does killing the Golden Age Sandman years after the freedom of Dream of The Endless began create continuity hiccups with Neil Gaiman's The Sandman, which DC has decided that because name hype to keep in the DCU as it began? Also, I don't think by 2040 anyone will have any problem accepting "it's maaaaaaaagic" to explain their ages. Geek is already mainstream. Imagine how much more self-cannibalistic media and fandom will be in 2040. I actually kinda like the idea of the DCU having these immortal titans who just get wiser and stronger with age because essentially out of universe they are like the Greek heroes of World War 2 and we have traditionally looked up to Nazi killers and mythological heroes.
Joshua Ingobo I see it like this. Pretend the Pre-Flashpoint and New 52 universes are jigsaw puzzles. These puzzles form very different pictures. What DC is doing is trying to take the pieces of these two separate puzzles and is trying to force them to form one picture. It doesn’t fit. They’re not meant to be one picture. But instead of realizing that, DC just uses tape, glue, and even cutting up pieces to force them into one picture...and it’s a mess of a picture.
Personally I would have there be a team that existed in the 30's filled with the characters that don't work anymore or they don't want to use (Iron Monroe, Mr.America, etc.) And have the recognition value ones like Jay garrick and Alan Scott be from the team from the 80's. Make it a long running legacy. The only one that is in all the teams are the hawk people because of they reincarnate every generation.
The Legion stuff tied into their own sub-event-- End of An Era. Both teams- The Legion of Super Heroes and the Legionaries- had beeing facing the manipulations The Trapper since almost the beginning but it was only coming to light in the has been creating through the Giffen/Beirbaum and Waid runs on the series. It turns out the everything that happened in Legion vol 4.- which was a series already so incredibly dark that DC briefly considered moving it over to Vertigo along with Sandman, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, etc. was the pulled punch version of the timeline. Things were a lot worse. The timeline we were supposed to be living in had the Legion fight the original Time Trapper- a rogue member of the The Controllers, in a war that went horribly wrong. While the fought at the end of time, the Legion almost killed the Trapper- before he used the last of his power to destroy most of the life in our galaxy crica 2996... and many of the Legion members. Cosmic Boy absorbed The Trapper's energy. He spent centuries mastering the powers, The created literally hundreds of thousands of pocket dimensions each with their own Legion. He found a version of each of his friends as their 'most perfect' self, he removed them from their timeline, destroyed it and sealed them in a stasis tube in the early 2990s. Unfortunately, they were found by the Dominators and experimented on during their takeover of the Earth. But they broke out. The existence of the second Legion was supposed to create an x-factor. It did as it is now 2998 and the Milky Way Galaxy is still sparsely populated. On the other hand, they were created to avoid cosmic destruction but he had created so many pockets that he destabilized time enough for Paralax and Extant do their thing. The timeline created by the existence of the SW6 team started experiencing Zero Hour Effects. They think it is the Time Trapper's fault. They go the end of time as shown, Cosmic Boy gets separated. Finds all this out. Reads the books and finds out about the Legions histories.... all of their histories. Pre-Crisis,. Post-Crisis. Post Pocket Universe. All of it. . Future Cosmic Boy gives his powers to present Adult Cosmic Boy hoping he'd figure out a way to end the madness. Present Adult Cosmic Boy decides to try to use his new Time Trapper powers to preserve his own timeiines, only things get worse. In fact, he finds out the only way for all these thousands of time pocket teams to avoid simply annihilating each other is to merge them all into a single timeline. But in doing so he'd create a timeline so radically different from his own that all anyone could hope for is that a world without Time Trappers and Glorith interfering with people's timelines and free will is that the Legion would be the beacon of hope that was always R.J. Brande's vision.
@@juanbisonosuero3650 It was a horrible, horrible story. And it you had actually been reading Legion Volume 4 at the time, completely nonsensical. There is a theory, somewhat backed by comments made by a few in DC in the know, that writers tanked the LSH books during the last 12-6 months of their final year to justify the reboot.
I don't know what the idea was behind killing off and aging up all the JSAers, but it is interesting to note that Jurgens originally wanted Zero Hour to end with the JSA-related characters off on a new Earth-2, having been retconned out of existence in the main DCU. So I wonder if editorial nixed that *before* or *after* Jurgens decided to have them get slaughtered by Extant.
In a way, you can thank this comic for the creation of Zauriel, the angel who was a member of the Justice League. Long story short, when Grant Morrison was writing JLA, he wanted to use Hawkman, but DC declared Hawkman off limits , so Grant created Zauriel instead.
24:00 this becomes more bizarre after you read jsa and find out what really happened to hourman. Actually the whole event just feels weird if you read jsa first.
Sad thing is, there was a very, very easy fix for the idea of the Justice Society not being super old. Following Crisis on Infinite Earths, they decided they wanted to keep Infinity Inc., but not the JSA. So they created a story where, immediately after Crisis, the JSA had to deal with the aftermath of a spell cast by Hitler that attempted to start Ragnarok using the Spear of Destiny. To prevent Ragnarok from destroying the world, the JSA had to travel to Asgard and basically fight an eternal battle against the forces of Surtur and the other evil forces trying to lay waste to existence. But because of the spell, every time they won, the battle would reset, so the Justice Society were forced to basically fight a LITERAL never ending battle for all eternity to protect the world they loved. Only Dr. Fate, Power Girl and Star Spangled Kid were sent back to the modern world. It was a wonderful send off to said characters, and if that had been the last JSA story ever, it would have been a worthy send off. But later, DC decided to use shenanigans to bring the JSA back to the modern world, but they wound up having to come up with reasons for why they were young, usually involving some kind of stasis or the like. Instead, all they had to do was have the JSA be sent into Asgard following World War II, possibly after that HUAC storyline, perhaps also with their supporting casts coming with them. The JSA then spend decades in Asgard while the world moves on, until at some point they figure out some way to permanently win, and emerge back into the modern world 20 years before Superman makes his appearance. After all of the fighting, the JSA decide to retire and settle down, they have their kids, who would eventually become Infinity Inc 25 years later. But 20 years later Superman and the Justice League appear, Barry Allen meets Jay Garrick, and the JSA eventually comes out of retirement. Now the JSAers are in their 50s, so they're older, but thanks to training and magical vitality from their time in Asgard, they can still fight just as well as ever. There. Now no matter how long ago World War 2 was, the JSA have a reason to not be ancient, much like Captain America. Only the JSA's reason is much more metal than Cap's, since they were actually fighting gods in Asgard the whole while instead of being frozen in ice.
Roy Thomas has established that the JSA and their loved ones were exposed to the magical energies of a sorcerer named Ian Karkull, which caused their aging to be slowed down.
@@L1701 Right, but that still leaves the issue of the JSA being over 100 years and only getting older. The Ragnarok method allows for a sliding timescale where they were in Asgard from the 1950s to "roughly 20 years ago", leaving them time to age up, have their kids grow to their mid 20s by the time the Age of Heroes has started again, and it avoids the problem of them being effectively immortal. Like I said, its the "Captain America is found in the ice at the start of the Age of Heroes", but as portrayed by a Heavy Metal album cover.
For Hawkman just keep 2. Cater Hall the Golden Age Justice Society Hawkman, The Egyptian Reincarnation Hawkman and Katar Hol the Thanagarian Space Cop and JL member
The "I'll park wherever I want" comment reminded me of this old X-men cartoon clip, where magneto sees a no parking sign and says "the very sight of that sign offends me!" and then he destroys it.
Correction. Hal Jordan was Pol Manning. These future people had a habit of pulling him into the future, wiping his memory, and giving him the identity of Pol Manning whenever they had a problem they couldn't handle. He believed he was Earth's hero and native to that timeline. He eventually learned what happened and put a stop to the shenanigans until they tried it when he wasn't on Earth and fellow Green Lantern, Salak was. Salak became Manning and even after Hal and company restored his memories, he decided to stay since he'd fallen in love with "Manning's" girlfriend. I think they messed with her mind too, but didn't fix it.
Hence why I said kinda sorta - wasn't sure if this was supposed to be Salak or Hal (If Salak looked different than Hal in the Pol Manning form, I have no idea).
That JSA fight really boils my blood. It might be because I read Geoff Johns' JSA run before Zero Hour so I had heard about them going down against Extant nd expected it to have been a noble, fitting end and then just seeing the massacre pissed me off.
11:08 Ah, father and son working together. 24:08 It's an insult. They don't even get a shot off. 25:32 "We thought that by making your world more violent, we would make it more "realistic", more "adult". God help us if that's what it means."
1:55 2025 ? It is kinda happening in DC Comics current Event: Death Metal. However it is kinda shaping up to be like Marvel Comics's soft soft reboot that happened with 2015's Secret Wars 15:07 and 21:35 fortunately, alongside the foundation of Geoff John's explanation, Hawkman's comic book post Dark Nights Metal FINALLY kinda fixed his backstory. it is still kinda FULL COMIC BOOK insanity like Kamandi or Doom Patrol or Infinity Warps, but it finally makes some coherent ense
If they kept the JSA around, I'd say that keeping the comics set in WWII or an alternate timeline where the events of the war were different (a la the Wolfenstein games) but they were still firmly in the past would probably be the best way to hand wave their unaging. Their timeline is moving SLOWER than ours or in fact, the rest of the DCU. (Hell, with one of the characters capable of traveling the multiverse, they could even firmly establish that that universe's timeline moves slower by having that character visit for what they think is a week, only to get home and find out that like, 20 minutes have passed back home.)
Damn, DC loves the word Crisis. Crisis on Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Zero Hour Crisis in Time, Identity Crisis, Crisis on Earth X etc.
Barry and Wally's costumes stayed probably because Terminator. My guess is living matter ends up absorbed into the speed force and their costumes are designed to be immune from that energy and can't permanently absorbed, which is why the costume doesn't get worn out at top speed like regular clothes.
Funny how this popped up in my feed after watching so many Loki review bits on UA-cam....or maybe its just because I watched a recent yet unrelated Linkara bit after a long while away, I don't know....^_^
With Absolute Power being the big event of 2024 that Dawn of DC leading up to maybe we will get some shenanigans in 2025 Edit: so not a reboot but we are getting an absolute universe which is kinda like Ultimate DC and All In
I'll remind you all that we could've had shattered grid but people elected to vote a different comic thinking we could get SG on event comic month. *We're do they live....,*
If I remember correctly, Linkara said since it isn't made by the big two, Shattered Grid wouldn't be considered eligible part of Event Comic Month to be included in the vote, in addition to it now fulfilling the requirements of an event comic since it is considered a large crossover by the standard established by the big 2 that he goes off of. He is open to reviewing it as a Patreom request though
This is one of the few DC events I never read, and now I dunno if I should enjoy seeing this torn apart, praised, or critically seen. I do know I’ll enjoy this review regardless!
DC seems to have a weird relationship with the JSA characters. There's issues with the sliding timescale of comics, given most of the members were active specifically in WWII, and thus them interfering with how old/young DC's more popular characters are supposed to be, like Superman and Batman. Yet whenever the JSA members try passing their legacy off to a newer, younger generation, DC always eventually brings back the original characters as the main members of the team. So the classic JSA members keep causing problems for them by having WWII heroes still being active today but those same members are too iconic for DC to ever let a newer generation take their place for very long. So they have a problem, they have a decent solution to that problem, but they keep backtracking on that solution and refusing to solve the problem.
That the main problem I always had am fine with having the main/popular ones like Flash, Green Lantern and Wildcat but the other should stay in the past and other character filled there roles, like Stargirl.
Roy Thomas explained this. A battle with Ian Karkull caused them to be saturated with coronal energy which slowed their aging. They also got trapped in Asgard, forcing them to reenact Ragnarok over and over again for decades.
“Crisis of the secret house.” Yeah you just want to do House of M. I’m also glad to see Zero Hour. Also everything with the JSA, the new team is probably my favorite. Sandy Hawkins, Atom Smasher, Mr Terrific, and Stargirl
The funny thing about Triumph is that his creator, Mark Waid, would do a send up/pseudo-parody of him for an Avengers storyline called No Retreat, No Surrender, that actually kind of ties into another event being covered this month due to Hulk stuff.
"They simplified his (Hawkman's) origins to just be about reincarnation and aliens." is the most comic book phrase I have ever heard in my life.
Comics Industry: Linkara will never run out of material for Event Comics Month
Me: That’s good.
CI: Because the number of events we publish each year is growing exponentially.
Me: That’s bad.
But they come with a free frozen yogurt! Or as I call it, frogurt!
The frogurt is also being rebooted.
That’s bad.
But we resurrected your favorite toppings!
That’s good.
@@maddiewettach4954 CI: The resurrection results in them becoming evil.
Me: ...
CI: That's bad.
Me: Can I go now?
@@SteveElOtaku A member of Linkara's fandom will start a Simpsons quote and someone else will continue it till it's finished. This calls for a celebration with steamed hams!
@@SteveElOtaku A couple years back a local frozen yogurt shop added the flavor "Evil Matter" and it was de-li-cious so... maybe evil toppings are worth it?
"Hawkman"
"Continuity"
"Quick Explanation."
Dude. These three things. Must never be included. In the same sentence. Not. Ever. PERIODS. EVERYWHERE.
Also, the whole confusing "Hakwman Merging" and "Hawkman fighting the Hawk God" is explained in his tie-in. Pretty much everything that's confusing about the miniseries, or that seems like it has no real meaning, is explained in a tie-in. The Time-Trapper thing finally gave the legion the proper reboot it didn't get in Crissis on Infinite Earths, and even explained WHY it wasn't rebooted with the rest of the DCU. This miniseries did a LOT of really interesting things with a number of characters.
Hawkman probably has the most confusing backstory in all of comics: He's an alien from Thanagar who crashed to Earth died and reincarnated into different versions who's sometimes an archeologist and sometimes an alien police officer and sometimes both and sometimes not.
Also, I got the name for my second kid from Hawkman, (Carter).
James Cobb Have you read any of the latest Hawkman series, they are making an attempt to streamline his janky multiple origin backstory, only to cancel it again, if the rumors I see online are correct.
Hawkman has continuity? Every time I hear his origin it’s different from the last one I heard. Can DC just decide on one.
The recent Hawkman has done a damn good job at trying to fix it all.
"The cosmos is in _agony."_
"It stepped on a _Lego."_
Truly the ultimate pain in the Universe.
Legos have nothing on d4s.
And since it's comics, and the cosmos has an actual, physical representation, it very much CAN step on a lego.
someone call doctor strange!
@@Eguzky
Poor Kismet...
My mom says Barbie shoes are the same equivalent.
Crisis on Infinite Earth's: Reboot
Zero Hour: Altered Timeline
Infinite Crisis: Altered Timeline
Flashpoint: Reboot
DC Rebirth: Altered Timeline
Pretty much. I'm using reboot here as more of a shorthand for the timeline alterations because it just keeps happening.
Can't wait for an altered reboot
@@AT4W Yeah, for how many people say that DC has alot Reboots, they have A LOT of Altered Timelines too
@@ycastro2003 i think thats basically Dark Nights Death Metal with its "anti-crisis"
Next up is dc’s death metal
1:51 Well, in the final issue of Doomsday Clock, Dr. Manhattan says, and I quote, "It's July 2nd, 2025. A crises unlike any the metaverse has seen, one they will call "Time Masters", erupts...", so yeah. See you in 5 years, Linkara!
Assuming Time Warner hasn't bitten the bullet and sold the fucker to Disney by then.
Brrrr, got REAL cold in here suddenly...
@@captainnegativity9269 That one will be for 2030's Secret Crisis
@@captainnegativity9269 look on the bright side: if DC gets sold to Disney, we can finally get another JLA/Avengers crossover.
Reboots and retcons are tools. Neither inherently bad or good, and they require care and respect. They are not to be treated lightly.
19:06 "including a very pregnant power girl." Oh god, this better not be like Avengers 200!
It was still very bad, but not nearly AS bad as Avengers #200. Power Girl still acknowledged, "This is a frickin' messed up thing you did," but her kid did not fall in love with her.
Still rapidly aged, though.
Linkara: "Until Geoff John's reworked his backstory, DC considered Hawkman radioactive. Don't use him, don't mention him."
Me: "Now Hawkman's radioactive! That can't be good!"
Also Linkara: "We'll cover how DC screwed up Wally West later."
Me: "Oh God, we're covering Heroes in Crisis later, aren't we?"
John Morgan Have you read Flash Forward yet? More of the same, basically tossing Wally under the bus.
Yeah, Heroes In Crisis is scheduled as the last review for this month's Event comics. I'm expecting a lot of ranting on Linkara's part, I hear that one is...a class all its own in doing a character dirty.
Yes we are. Expect a little ranting.
@@AC-gb7do at least Flash Forward revived wally's kids and restored his mariage with linda. sure at the cost of wally losing his humanity but scott snyder is working his magic already fixing that one
Also, DC Comics finally fixed Hawkman's near imcomprehensible backstory by saying "he just reincarnated across different points and places in time-space continuum ".
AKA
"maybe he had a live in planet earth, America in the 1940's, got killed, and then his next life was in the planet Thamaraan, in the year 2020, got kiled and then his next life might hae been again on Earth, but in egypt in the 4000 BC". just to say an example
@@AC-gb7do I actually kinda liked Flash Forward
9:42
I like how he pretends like the Joker could even remember what he was doing five minutes ago, let along five years.
Me: Wait a minute Crisis in Time didn't come out two decades ago it came out in the 90's.
[Realises that the 90's WAS in fact two decades ago]
Me: damn I am getting old :(
The 90s are going on 3 decades ago.
*Cries in old*
First comic I ever bought was X-Men # 136 in 1980. Everyone in this thread is young to me lol. I’m so old I cry dust.
1990 was THREE years ago
The fact the plan to make Hal evil was all done in a weekend is both hilarious and also not much of a surprise. EDIT: Also apparently the original story they were gonna do was about fake Guardians of the Universe and The Green Lantern Corp has to figure out who’s the original, so essentially a space clone saga.
As a Spider-Man fan, *DEAR GOD NO!*
We spends years waiting for an answer, get loads of red herrings and pointless stories, come to a close multiple times but get faced with more padding and then the whole thing ends with it turning out to be Sinestro was behind it because we had written ourselves into a corner along the way, had a change in production lead and it turns out a character thought dead wasn't so he is behind this. Now lets never talk about this again (unless we can make a crappy event off it).
@@Specsboy1999 Let’s just hope it doesn’t have a comic book named Galatic Clonage where we have millions of small blue men that then just melt
Reminds me. Why hasn't Guy Gardner become evil?
@@GatorRay Closest was when he was leader of the Red Corp, but that was more Anti-Hero.
The Hawkman thing could have been resolved so easily if they'd just kept the Hawkworld mini-series set in the past like it was originally supposed to. The explanation that Katar's father worked with Carter Hall and slipped him the Nth metal and then used his hero identity to form the Thanagarian Hawk Police was all they needed. He then named his son after his friend. Everything makes sense, but they kept making it more complicated with Hawk Gods and avatars.
To be fair, Joker probably shot a LOT of people five years ago. Joker shoots five people before he gets out of bed in the morning.
11:07 ...ooooooooh, _that's_ why the ship is called that in Legends of Tomorrow.
Explaining the time being destroyed backwards
Rita Repulsa: I HAVE A HEADACHE!
You get a crisis, and you get a crisis, everybody gets a crisis!
So many crises, so little time
... yay?
On the bright side, can't wait for 2030's Secret Crisis (Seriously, I'm holding them to that)
There is literally a "Crisis Energy" now.
Oh I've got a crisis alright...
An existential one DX
The part about the Justice Society and the sliding time-scale of comics reminds me of another comic character I feel might face similar issues in the future: Magneto.
Like the Justice Society, Magneto is a character who's tied directly to a singular point in history and it forms a huge basis of his motivations and character. I've had talks with people about how the MCU would depict Magneto in the films since by the time he finally appears, he'd likely be 80-90 years old. Do you change his backstory to a more recent event? Give him slowed-aging as an extra power? Have him pull a Captain America and get frozen or something?
I'm not sure how the comics are handling it, but I think it's a topic that future adaptations and the like will have to address.
Slow aging seem like the best bet it easy to believe some mutants just age slower, the real question is how to add mutants to the MCU, in the first place, I always thought the best place was after endgame after the snap but that seem like it not happening.
Jia Bryant My idea is that mutants have always existed, but they were rare. Very rare. Also, the vast majority of them have rather harmless physical mutations: Odd eye/hair colors, polydactyly, webbed toes, that kind of thing.
The only thing I think you could probably change Magneto's backstory to is being a survivor of the attempted genocides during the breakup of Yugoslavia in the 90's. It's a roughly similar backstory, and would fit well with the backstories of MCU Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch if they want to put that back into continuity.
@@Ridgwaycer it wasn't attempted. The Bosnian genocide was a real genocide committed by the Army of Republika Srpska against the Bosnian Muslims and others. I feel like appropriating that for the story might come off as insensitive to some people
As for how the comics I believe he got that serum that fury did to make them live longer. Plus I feel him dying and coming back might've slowed the aging issue there.
I'm so glad that Batman's format preference became a recurring joke.
I hope in more modern comics he prefers HD-DVD to Blu-Ray.
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231Basically prettier and more expensive DVD’s.
Crisis of the secret house. Sounds great
It sounds like a reality tv show about a bunch of super heroes living in one house otherwise still a great name
Am I the only one who doesn't understand it?
So This, Secret wars 2, and House of M?
Kane Bravo That, or Secret Empire. Maybe HiC, he did mention it a few months back.
Kane Bravo he already confirmed on his website.
Zero Hour
House of M
Secret Empire (those two might be reversed, I forgot the exact order he has)
Heroes in Crisis.
My favorite part of Zero Hour is the Aquaman tie-in where he's just running around with a crude harpoon on his bloody arm because the #0 issue happened right after Charybdis plunged him into a pool of piranhas and he lost his hand.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE WEIRD NUMBERING WAS FOR!!!!!!
I love that cover of Hal Jordan holding up all the Green Lantern rings he's acquired from his victims. I even have a shirt of it.
I like the remakes/homages they do in the sinestro corps war arc there was a cover homaging that image where hall is wearing a dozen yellow rings rather than green, the animated green lantern series that hal went nuts wearing a dozen orange rings
Oh that call forward to Heroes in Crisis...this is gonna be rough.
yeah I chekced the website when this was uploaded to youtube to see whats coming and saw Heros in crisis.
Even with the knowledge that House of M and Secret Empire are coming. both of which are baaaaaaad but nothing quite like heros in crisis can make you go "oh no this is going to be bad. and Linkara is going to wear out his voice with all that screaming"
@@bouddicathesleepinglioness3148 House of M was an interesting concept, as least. Not the terrible characterisation and ballooning power scale of Scarlet Witch, but in the Magneto side of it.
Secret Empire was just a rip off of an older X-Men story. One that didn't blow up a hero for no reason at all...
@@pious83 I at least understand why Secret Empire happened it was a response to Trump and he was seen as a corruption of the soul of the nation I get why doing that to captain america seemed like a good idea and honestly in different hands it would be good.
but fuck me what happened was baaaaad.
I read an interview with Dan Jurgens said the whole Zero Hour concept came to him because he wanted to revisit a storyline with Hawkman and Superman written in 1988. The story revolved around Hawkman taking Superman to the remains of Krypton. The editors at DC nixed the storyline because Hawkman was rebooted in late 1988 so the whole story couldn't have happened.
Barry's costume stayed because it resists the inertial effect The Flash experiences when he runs, so while Barry's sacrifice caused him to grind himself to death... his costume would have never been ground to death.
Wally's costume stayed behind mainly as homage of Barry's death.
Pol Manning was Hal's identity when he'd visit the future. Like how Wally is introduced in the 64th century, a lot of Silver Age DC Comics heroes would intermittently have adventures in the future, sort of how Superman and Jimmy Olsen would occasionally have off-genre adventures in the Bottle City of Kandor (where he and Jimmy basically cosplayed as sci-fi Batman and Robin, Nightwing and Flamebird).
Kyle Rayner took a LONG time to reach his potential. He did eventually, but for the first 4 or 5 years, he wasn't considered to be much outside of his own title.
Ah, 90s Hawkman. At least eventually people figured out what to do with ya.
I completely disagree about the JSA and Golden Age heroes. There's no reason heroes "tied to WWII" ... have to be. SUPERMAN pre-dates WWII, and yet he's still a vital and important super-hero character. Even guys like Captain America don't HAVE to be tied to a certain timeline--in fact, a "completely new to the modern world" take on some of these characters could make for some interesting stories. Interesting mental gymnastics to paper over some questionable parts of their past, too, maybe.
Anyway: you don't want the JSA tied to a specific point in history? Don't. Tie. Them. To. It. They're fictional characters! They can exist at *any* point in time.
I’m still partial to the JSA being a WW2 group like the Invaders at Marvel were. I do understand that it dates them, and that’s partially why Frank Castle isn’t a Vietnam vet anymore but, for me that aspect of his origin ‘feels’ right. For some reason, I don’t mind the FF being started in later decades though.
🤔
Ok, so Barry left the suit behind.
Now the real question:
Why didn't Barry come back NAKED?
GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT, DC!
It weird that people want to tie the JSA, to the WW2, but the idea that there from that era, and due to plot reason are in modern time always was a good enough fix's for me, I mean not like they have to bring the full team just the character everyone like, Flash, Green Lantern and Wildcat, the rest can be replaced by there legacy.
Jia Bryant I don’t mind a few JSA legacy characters, or even cameos from the 7 Soldiers of Victory at times, but it’s an easy fix to keep characters tied to WW2, just say they’re from another Earth, Dr. Fate could summon them, then they could get ‘stuck’ in the modern era somehow and they could mentor their junior characters, AND bring Alan Scott/GL, Jay Garrick and Wildcat back just as easily.
It’s a trope, but I’m a fan of ‘.characters out of time’ IF written well.
19:03
I know this series came out a decade or so earlier than Final Crisis, but... Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds actually explains this.
Basically, the Time Trapper is supposed to be a physical embodiment of the worst possible timeline. Put simply, depending on the events of the present day, his identity will change to reflect the worst case scenario, and essentially, whatever timeline that is, his goal is to make sure that that timeline is what will happen.
You know, I've actually got an idea for how to keep the JSA's origins relatively consistent, and timeless: Move their golden age from World War 2 to a new fictional war that happened 30 years before the current comics. Not World War 3, just a war that put America at direct risk, and saw a rise in heroes willing to fight for their homes and country, especially since there are a lot of members of the JSA without powers, so having THAT be what sets the standard for what the DC Universe views as heroic gives some decent continuity for the universe.
It's comic books. There are dozens of ways they could do it and make them originally appear in the Revolutionary war if they wanted to.
Easiest way would be to ice them like Captain America, or put them in a trans-dimensional stasis.
They could make it the Iraq war. They could go history channel and just make the reason aliens. It could be magic. Time travel. Cybernetic replacements with their brains transferred to robot bodies. THe possibilities are only limited by the writers imaginations and editorial fiat. Which, really, is a pretty dangerous and disastrous limitation.
The problem with that is you have fictionalized a war within the universe. Thus you have created an entirely alternate history. You also lose the direct thematic empahsis of the Second World War, a conflict with the most direct, black and white, good vs evil in existence. No war fought in the past thirty years or more can make the same claim.
More important to editors, you now forever lose the idea that this could be OUR world. That this comic has a relevant, similar past to our own. You have no created an entirely different history and outlined it very directly. Making the ability for fans to relate to this world, in the minds of editors, harder. This is why Marvel keeps trying to claim "The World outside your Window" with their comics. You lose that, you lose a direct tangible connection.
Mindy ou, I do think that actually NEEDS to happen, because the disconnect is apparent already. The Marvel Universe ISN'T the world outside our window. The DC universe ISN'T comparable to our Earth's history. In both worlds, fantastic, insane, other worldly technology is the norm, magic is real, aliens are confirmed fact. DC and Marvel try to ground their stories in the reality of our world, but they can't because ultimately they AREN'T our worlds.
Look no further to Civil War 2, where everyone treats the ability to tell the future as some amazing dangerous/useful new power when in reality its as mundane as jetpacks and flying cars are in this world. As both have existed before and will continue to do so in the future. Yet somehow, for whatever reason, we are expected to ignore every single time a character has had the ability to see the future or a means to determine it. It's stupid.
So really, I say ultimately just go with something like that. Admit that this world is not reality and accept it. And figure out a way for the JSA to exist in it. Whether its through a new war, a time pocket or whatever. It's comics, you can and should be able to let your imagination run free.
Another problem with this idea is that it's pretty damn hard to come up with any way that America could be "put at direct risk" by a war that doesn't end in nuclear winter. The only reason war has existed at all since 1945 is because none of the wars have put nuclear-armed states "at direct risk". Only the invaders have ever had nukes, and never the invaded.
If *America* gets invaded, it's unimaginable that it'd be done by a state that's weak enough to not have their own nukes. And you *know* they'll nuke the invaders out of existence, which will result in the invaders retaliating with their own nukes.
My understanding is that they kinda-sorta tried to do that in the New 52, specifically by moving the JSA characters _back_ to a new version of Earth 2 in a series titled... well, “Earth 2.” However, not only were the characters heavily-reimagined and reinvented in that series, but they were also aged down to the ages the originals had been back in WWII era comics, and the war was one that had just been fought. Also they weren’t called the JSA anymore.
Those versions actually _did_ end up interacting with the “classic” JSA (from Pre-Crisis Earth-Two, no less) in the 2015 event Convergence, which altered time so that the original Crisis _didn’t_ destroy the original multiverse, allowing every world that had _ever_ existed to survive.
@@coredumperror you know, that gives me an idea for a different comic universe: what if the time of world war 2 were so ever changing (especially with the rise of super heroes AND a lot of time travellers wanting to kill hitler) that with so many changes and chaos there was a version of the timeline where america became the higher villain to beat after the nazis forcing the superhero community at the time to go against the country they once served?
that the other timelines still existed in "Layers", all of them "overlaying each other" in the timeline, so by the time all that crisis got sorted out, the evtns that everyone remembers happening are mostly what happened in "Layer 1" (and reality got reality warped to fit that criteria. and super heroes got hidden Men in Black style) BUT in the present everyone gets their memories from WW2 from all the potential branches/layers
i dunno, i got inspired with thati dea i wanted to share
After playing MK11 Aftermath, I now believe all time travel stories would be infinitely better with _Shang Tsung_ in them.
That Sindel retcon was still stupid though.
@@brandonlyon730 nah, made her infinitely more interesting by giving her an ACTUAL personality as opposed to always being brainwashed
@@MoojinBoiPersonally I don’t agree, they just made her into some generic evil queen there is really not much else to her other then being an evil gold digger.
The old Sindel was a tragic character, a queen of a peaceful realm with a family until suddenly this asshole warlord destroyed it all by conquering it, subjecting her people, murdering her husband, and forced her to become his concubine. She then killed herself to get out of her grief and suffering which ends with her sacrifice creating a barrier to protect a realm in the future from Shao Kahns evil. And when she got resurrected she continued to be Shao Kahn’s plaything as he mind controls her making her act evil to the good guys when in reality she was just another one of Kahn’s victims.
And once she broke free of that she continued to act like a good person. Despite all the shit she went through she still loves her daughter and her people and wants to continue to ensure that other realms don’t ever go through what she went through by an evil bastard.
That’s far most compelling then an evil woman with the hots for an abusive monster.
@@brandonlyon730 There's nothing like making Shao Khan and Sindel a powercouple, despite Shao Khan originally making her commit suicide.
Vanja Galović yeah that’s power couple still made no sense to me
"Mr. Stark, Anti-Life justifies my hate."
"We've got a few weeks before we really see them screw with Wally West."
I shudder to think with just how badly they screwed him over.
your discussion about the distance from WW2 makes me genuinely worry for the future of Magneto. He's such a brilliant character, but to try and "modernise" his backstory would take away so much from it. I fear that the early 2000 X-Men movies may be the last we see of him in cinema.
Magneto being a Holocaust survivor was a retcon put in years after when he was introduced. Original Lee/Kirby Magneto was basically a basic Bwa-ha-ha world conqueror. And there were massacres and attempts at genocide after the Holocaust.
Technically it happened twice the 97 animated Magneto was retconned as not a survivor of the holocaust but escaped the mid to late 90s ethnic cleansing conflict in the Balkans where his wife and daughter was killed in their escape, thus making him younger and Fox at the time thought the actual holocaust was too intense for younger viewers.
@@shadowspider9thats kind of brilliant tbh. But honestly. I don't think they'd ever change how almost justifyingly vicious and Clos minded ol mags can be
The Tim Drake-meets-Dick Grayson Robin issue is awesome.
I’m probably the only one at this point who now appreciates the Jason Todd Robin over the Damien Robin, and that’s coming from someone who called that 1 900 Kill Jason Todd number back in the day!
What do you think about the choice of Cassandra Cain and Connor Kent as love interests for each other?
Zero Hour struck me as DC wanting to resolve the Monarch stuff, having a bash at it for the first half, then announcing “Screw it, we’re gonna wrap up _Green Lantern/Green Arrow_ instead”
I have an explanation about joker: he is from the same time as batgirl so she wouldn't notice any difference
Knowing him, it would be hard to tell. He might be from a 3rd era and we could never know.
For awhile DC hinted, but never outright confirmed, that the Joker knew Batman was Bruce Wayne, but Joker could never actually consciously acknowledge this because it would ruin all the fun and mystique of his battles with Batman. So it's completely possible that them giving away Batgirl's identity just went in one ear and out the other because it just didn't fit in with Joker's concept of reality.
If it is their Joker, he'd know about her anyhow, at least indirectly.
Huh. There was actually a person named Waverider in the comics. So that's where the ship from Legends of Tomorrow got its name.
Yep. Though I didn’t know that either until I watched the behind the scenes of Legends of Tomorrow series one.
Convergence showed that he was actually Booster Gold from New 52 iirc.
Steven Stice Waverider is the original Booster
@@stevenstice6683 it's more accurate to say that _a_ Waverider is New Earth's Booster Gold, but there are still two other characters (multiversal counterparts of each other) that used the name before him. The one (or two, depending how you want to count it) in _this_ event was originally named Matthew Ryder.
Note: Linkara predicted the DC Cinematic Universe Reboot of 2025. Must watch more episodes to see what else he predicted.
00:12 to 00:30
Nice logo.
2:48
I thought Zero Hour was an okay event, but the two-page spread of the DC timeline showing superheroes since Superman’s public debut being active since for ten years is a mindscrew for the readers.
In my headcanon, it would make sense that all the heroes Since Superman’s public debut would be active for 23 years since Superman graduated from Superboy at 20 years old (or 35 years since Superman stated as the original Superboy at eight years old), making the JSA in their seventies, the JLA in their late-thirties or early-forties, the Titans and Infinity Inc. in their mid-twenties or early-thirties, and Young Justice be in their early or mid-teens. At least that would make sense timeline and continuity wise.
Also, in my headcanon, Barry Allen’s debut as the Flash would happen five years after Superman’s debut, the JLA would form seven years after Superman’s debut, Flash of Two Worlds would happen nine years after Superman’s debut, the first JLA/JSA teamup would happen and the Titans would form as the Teen Titans ten years after Superman’s debut, the New Teen Titans and the Outsiders and Infinity Inc. would form fifteen years after Superman’s debut, the first Crisis would happen 17 years after Superman’s pubic debut, Legends would happen a year after the first Crisis, Millennium would happen two years after the first Crisis, Invasion would happen three years after the first Crisis, the JSA would return and the Death of Superman would happen five years after the first Crisis, and Zero Hour would happen six years after the first Crisis. That way, it would make a lot of sense to the readers.
12:36 to 12:43
Linkara is talking about Heroes in Crisis.
14:40 to 15:08
If I were DC, there would be two versions of Hawkman and Hawkgirl that coexisted in the Pre-Flashpoint continuity without any reboots or retcons that changed both characters. For example, the Golden Age Hawkman would debut in October 1939 and join the Justice Society of America in November 1940 and the Golden Age Hawkgirl would debut in June 1941 and join the All-Star Squadron in December 1941, while the Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl (later renamed and rebranded as Hawkwoman) arrived from Thanagar to Earth and made their debut in March 1961 (or eight years before Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1977, fourteen years before Zero Hour in 1980, 22 years before Infinite Crisis in 1984, 24 years before Flashpoint and 29 years before Rebirth in 1987, and 31 years before Dark Knights: Death Metal in 1989 in my version of the DC timeline, which would last 35 years between the start of the Silver Age in 1956 and Dark Knights: Death Metal in 2020) and joined the Justice League of America 13 years in real-time (or five years in sliding time) apart. Everything would be like it is or was Pre-Crisis and Pre-Flashpoint without any continuity errors, while Hawkworld would either be a Post-Crisis retelling of the Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl set in the past or would be an Elseworlds story. That is how I will set the continuity straight for the Golden and Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl.
"Crisis of the Secret House" would actually be a good name for an event comic.
I can't help but see that empty Flash costume as a weird sorta shadow monster that has been given new life inhabiting the Flash's old costume and wants to go around scaring people for Halloween, eat candy and waggle his arms around like a spaghetti.
That could actually be a neat flash villian concept. The shadow flash, the spirts of all of the flashes that died forming into the shape of the costume where it tries to take the flash’a life to have a life of its own.
In fairness to Hal the Guardians have done some pretty evil things in the name of good.
the orginal emerald twlight plan reveled that the guardians killed hal's dad to make him the best green lantern. hal would have left after asorbing power from the central battery and became the protector. Though paralax would fit hal working as a hero outside the corps.
19:18 I love that expression on Wonder Women's face. She's like "It's about time you all showed up."
24:27 Hey, wait a minute. Does killing the Golden Age Sandman years after the freedom of Dream of The Endless began create continuity hiccups with Neil Gaiman's The Sandman, which DC has decided that because name hype to keep in the DCU as it began?
Also, I don't think by 2040 anyone will have any problem accepting "it's maaaaaaaagic" to explain their ages. Geek is already mainstream. Imagine how much more self-cannibalistic media and fandom will be in 2040. I actually kinda like the idea of the DCU having these immortal titans who just get wiser and stronger with age because essentially out of universe they are like the Greek heroes of World War 2 and we have traditionally looked up to Nazi killers and mythological heroes.
Heroes in Crisis might just be my most anticipated review for this lad to cover.
that mans voice is gonna be hoarse by the end.
@@bouddicathesleepinglioness3148 Thank god for infinite frontier
No one:
DC: we gotta _streamline our continuity_
DC: And by streamlining it, I mean rebooting and retconning it to create a continuity that doesn’t make any sense.
Joshua Ingobo I see it like this. Pretend the Pre-Flashpoint and New 52 universes are jigsaw puzzles. These puzzles form very different pictures. What DC is doing is trying to take the pieces of these two separate puzzles and is trying to force them to form one picture. It doesn’t fit. They’re not meant to be one picture. But instead of realizing that, DC just uses tape, glue, and even cutting up pieces to force them into one picture...and it’s a mess of a picture.
Both Smallville and the Stargirl tv shows updated the JSA so they started in the 80's with their legacy as the first superhero team still intact.
Didn’t the series hint that the original Dr. Mid-Nite was born in 1919?
Juan Bisono suero The Stargirl series. It established Charles McNider was born in 1919.
Personally I would have there be a team that existed in the 30's filled with the characters that don't work anymore or they don't want to use (Iron Monroe, Mr.America, etc.) And have the recognition value ones like Jay garrick and Alan Scott be from the team from the 80's. Make it a long running legacy. The only one that is in all the teams are the hawk people because of they reincarnate every generation.
1:50 DC is already planning a reboot, Doomsday Clock mentions a future upheaval in 2025, probably tied to 5G.
Isn't 5G cancelled?
Can you really blame Guy for wanting to save his friend, the corp, and an entire city?
Wave Rider and the Hawks is a good name for a band.
The Legion stuff tied into their own sub-event-- End of An Era. Both teams- The Legion of Super Heroes and the Legionaries- had beeing facing the manipulations The Trapper since almost the beginning but it was only coming to light in the has been creating through the Giffen/Beirbaum and Waid runs on the series. It turns out the everything that happened in Legion vol 4.- which was a series already so incredibly dark that DC briefly considered moving it over to Vertigo along with Sandman, Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, etc. was the pulled punch version of the timeline. Things were a lot worse. The timeline we were supposed to be living in had the Legion fight the original Time Trapper- a rogue member of the The Controllers, in a war that went horribly wrong. While the fought at the end of time, the Legion almost killed the Trapper- before he used the last of his power to destroy most of the life in our galaxy crica 2996... and many of the Legion members. Cosmic Boy absorbed The Trapper's energy. He spent centuries mastering the powers, The created literally hundreds of thousands of pocket dimensions each with their own Legion. He found a version of each of his friends as their 'most perfect' self, he removed them from their timeline, destroyed it and sealed them in a stasis tube in the early 2990s. Unfortunately, they were found by the Dominators and experimented on during their takeover of the Earth.
But they broke out. The existence of the second Legion was supposed to create an x-factor. It did as it is now 2998 and the Milky Way Galaxy is still sparsely populated. On the other hand, they were created to avoid cosmic destruction but he had created so many pockets that he destabilized time enough for Paralax and Extant do their thing.
The timeline created by the existence of the SW6 team started experiencing Zero Hour Effects. They think it is the Time Trapper's fault. They go the end of time as shown, Cosmic Boy gets separated. Finds all this out. Reads the books and finds out about the Legions histories.... all of their histories. Pre-Crisis,. Post-Crisis. Post Pocket Universe. All of it. . Future Cosmic Boy gives his powers to present Adult Cosmic Boy hoping he'd figure out a way to end the madness. Present Adult Cosmic Boy decides to try to use his new Time Trapper powers to preserve his own timeiines, only things get worse.
In fact, he finds out the only way for all these thousands of time pocket teams to avoid simply annihilating each other is to merge them all into a single timeline. But in doing so he'd create a timeline so radically different from his own that all anyone could hope for is that a world without Time Trappers and Glorith interfering with people's timelines and free will is that the Legion would be the beacon of hope that was always R.J. Brande's vision.
@@juanbisonosuero3650 It was a horrible, horrible story. And it you had actually been reading Legion Volume 4 at the time, completely nonsensical. There is a theory, somewhat backed by comments made by a few in DC in the know, that writers tanked the LSH books during the last 12-6 months of their final year to justify the reboot.
Crisis on secret house is a great title Linkara, keep up the good work brother
I don't know what the idea was behind killing off and aging up all the JSAers, but it is interesting to note that Jurgens originally wanted Zero Hour to end with the JSA-related characters off on a new Earth-2, having been retconned out of existence in the main DCU. So I wonder if editorial nixed that *before* or *after* Jurgens decided to have them get slaughtered by Extant.
24:45 I love imagining Steve Rogers giggling at this set of lines
Don't worry, I know exactly who to call when weird time stuff is going down.
Somebody get me the number of the legends of tomorrow!
In a way, you can thank this comic for the creation of Zauriel, the angel who was a member of the Justice League. Long story short, when Grant Morrison was writing JLA, he wanted to use Hawkman, but DC declared Hawkman off limits , so Grant created Zauriel instead.
22:45 that guy stole your doom mask
Superman's mullet was a Crisis of its own.
Hawk man’s origin is just nuts because comics
24:00 this becomes more bizarre after you read jsa and find out what really happened to hourman. Actually the whole event just feels weird if you read jsa first.
There was actually a promo video about Zero Hour. I just found out about it on UA-cam.
I know I'm a week late on this, but GOOD GOD you do an amazing impression of Mark Hamil's Joker. That's both impressive and uncanny. Nice!
90's kid is now 90's dude. God I fee
l old now
Word to that 😂
DC writers post-Zero Hour: Now Hawkman's radioactive! That can't be good!
Sad thing is, there was a very, very easy fix for the idea of the Justice Society not being super old.
Following Crisis on Infinite Earths, they decided they wanted to keep Infinity Inc., but not the JSA. So they created a story where, immediately after Crisis, the JSA had to deal with the aftermath of a spell cast by Hitler that attempted to start Ragnarok using the Spear of Destiny. To prevent Ragnarok from destroying the world, the JSA had to travel to Asgard and basically fight an eternal battle against the forces of Surtur and the other evil forces trying to lay waste to existence. But because of the spell, every time they won, the battle would reset, so the Justice Society were forced to basically fight a LITERAL never ending battle for all eternity to protect the world they loved. Only Dr. Fate, Power Girl and Star Spangled Kid were sent back to the modern world.
It was a wonderful send off to said characters, and if that had been the last JSA story ever, it would have been a worthy send off. But later, DC decided to use shenanigans to bring the JSA back to the modern world, but they wound up having to come up with reasons for why they were young, usually involving some kind of stasis or the like.
Instead, all they had to do was have the JSA be sent into Asgard following World War II, possibly after that HUAC storyline, perhaps also with their supporting casts coming with them. The JSA then spend decades in Asgard while the world moves on, until at some point they figure out some way to permanently win, and emerge back into the modern world 20 years before Superman makes his appearance. After all of the fighting, the JSA decide to retire and settle down, they have their kids, who would eventually become Infinity Inc 25 years later. But 20 years later Superman and the Justice League appear, Barry Allen meets Jay Garrick, and the JSA eventually comes out of retirement. Now the JSAers are in their 50s, so they're older, but thanks to training and magical vitality from their time in Asgard, they can still fight just as well as ever.
There. Now no matter how long ago World War 2 was, the JSA have a reason to not be ancient, much like Captain America. Only the JSA's reason is much more metal than Cap's, since they were actually fighting gods in Asgard the whole while instead of being frozen in ice.
Roy Thomas has established that the JSA and their loved ones were exposed to the magical energies of a sorcerer named Ian Karkull, which caused their aging to be slowed down.
@@L1701 Right, but that still leaves the issue of the JSA being over 100 years and only getting older. The Ragnarok method allows for a sliding timescale where they were in Asgard from the 1950s to "roughly 20 years ago", leaving them time to age up, have their kids grow to their mid 20s by the time the Age of Heroes has started again, and it avoids the problem of them being effectively immortal. Like I said, its the "Captain America is found in the ice at the start of the Age of Heroes", but as portrayed by a Heavy Metal album cover.
For Hawkman just keep 2. Cater Hall the Golden Age Justice Society Hawkman, The Egyptian Reincarnation Hawkman and Katar Hol the Thanagarian Space Cop and JL member
The "I'll park wherever I want" comment reminded me of this old X-men cartoon clip, where magneto sees a no parking sign and says "the very sight of that sign offends me!" and then he destroys it.
“What time is it?!” should be a running gag!
It is a running gag.
Correction. Hal Jordan was Pol Manning. These future people had a habit of pulling him into the future, wiping his memory, and giving him the identity of Pol Manning whenever they had a problem they couldn't handle. He believed he was Earth's hero and native to that timeline. He eventually learned what happened and put a stop to the shenanigans until they tried it when he wasn't on Earth and fellow Green Lantern, Salak was. Salak became Manning and even after Hal and company restored his memories, he decided to stay since he'd fallen in love with "Manning's" girlfriend. I think they messed with her mind too, but didn't fix it.
Hence why I said kinda sorta - wasn't sure if this was supposed to be Salak or Hal (If Salak looked different than Hal in the Pol Manning form, I have no idea).
Zero Hour's premise would work really good for a Doctor Who story
That JSA fight really boils my blood. It might be because I read Geoff Johns' JSA run before Zero Hour so I had heard about them going down against Extant nd expected it to have been a noble, fitting end and then just seeing the massacre pissed me off.
11:08 Ah, father and son working together.
24:08 It's an insult. They don't even get a shot off.
25:32 "We thought that by making your world more violent, we would make it more "realistic", more "adult". God help us if that's what it means."
9:05 "DARKSEID IS!... in this comic."
Aw yeah! Events comic month is back and Blind Guardian still rocks!
"You know how sometimes you fix something so much you break it?"
Yes, yes I do. The last time I was in love, for example
Zero hour's number choice is very creative and I somewhat wish comics still did that.
1:55 2025 ? It is kinda happening in DC Comics current Event: Death Metal. However it is kinda shaping up to be like Marvel Comics's soft soft reboot that happened with 2015's Secret Wars
15:07 and 21:35 fortunately, alongside the foundation of Geoff John's explanation, Hawkman's comic book post Dark Nights Metal FINALLY kinda fixed his backstory. it is still kinda FULL COMIC BOOK insanity like Kamandi or Doom Patrol or Infinity Warps, but it finally makes some coherent ense
If they kept the JSA around, I'd say that keeping the comics set in WWII or an alternate timeline where the events of the war were different (a la the Wolfenstein games) but they were still firmly in the past would probably be the best way to hand wave their unaging. Their timeline is moving SLOWER than ours or in fact, the rest of the DCU. (Hell, with one of the characters capable of traveling the multiverse, they could even firmly establish that that universe's timeline moves slower by having that character visit for what they think is a week, only to get home and find out that like, 20 minutes have passed back home.)
0:18 cheeky.
Linkara: WHAT TIME IS IT?
Me: It's Miller Time
Damn, DC loves the word Crisis. Crisis on Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Zero Hour Crisis in Time, Identity Crisis, Crisis on Earth X etc.
Event comics 3 has finally begun and this is going to be fun. :)
Barry and Wally's costumes stayed probably because Terminator. My guess is living matter ends up absorbed into the speed force and their costumes are designed to be immune from that energy and can't permanently absorbed, which is why the costume doesn't get worn out at top speed like regular clothes.
Who misses the old continuity alarm? I'd forgot it ever existed until he started talking about the backstory
“Hey...psst, whoever’s in charge here....the scenery! Where’s the scenery?”
10:47 “Because it’s THURSDAY!”
Watchtower Database anyone?
I rly like the art in this one for some reason. It's that sweet spot between the 80s and 90s styles. Like Todd McFarlane Spider-Man, almost.
“Oh god, been working since eight o’clock non stop, it’s half past midnight, I just want to melt on the bedNEW AT4W MUST WATCH NOW”.
Funny how this popped up in my feed after watching so many Loki review bits on UA-cam....or maybe its just because I watched a recent yet unrelated Linkara bit after a long while away, I don't know....^_^
“By your snarls combined, I am...CAPTAIN HAWKPERSON!”
With Absolute Power being the big event of 2024 that Dawn of DC leading up to maybe we will get some shenanigans in 2025
Edit: so not a reboot but we are getting an absolute universe which is kinda like Ultimate DC and All In
I'll remind you all that we could've had shattered grid but people elected to vote a different comic thinking we could get SG on event comic month.
*We're do they live....,*
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 ah, an abandoned blockbuster.
@EMMETT REED SG= Shattered Grid.
If I remember correctly, Linkara said since it isn't made by the big two, Shattered Grid wouldn't be considered eligible part of Event Comic Month to be included in the vote, in addition to it now fulfilling the requirements of an event comic since it is considered a large crossover by the standard established by the big 2 that he goes off of. He is open to reviewing it as a Patreom request though
14:33 Vandale Savage: I've been defeated by Hawkman. He'll beat me up I'm sure. At least it can't get any worse.
(more Hawkmen appear)
Savage: o NO 😨
This is one of the few DC events I never read, and now I dunno if I should enjoy seeing this torn apart, praised, or critically seen.
I do know I’ll enjoy this review regardless!
Linkara: We perceived time as cause and effect...
The Doctor: but in actuality it’s a big ball of Whibley wobbly tiny whiny stuff
DC seems to have a weird relationship with the JSA characters. There's issues with the sliding timescale of comics, given most of the members were active specifically in WWII, and thus them interfering with how old/young DC's more popular characters are supposed to be, like Superman and Batman. Yet whenever the JSA members try passing their legacy off to a newer, younger generation, DC always eventually brings back the original characters as the main members of the team.
So the classic JSA members keep causing problems for them by having WWII heroes still being active today but those same members are too iconic for DC to ever let a newer generation take their place for very long. So they have a problem, they have a decent solution to that problem, but they keep backtracking on that solution and refusing to solve the problem.
That the main problem I always had am fine with having the main/popular ones like Flash, Green Lantern and Wildcat but the other should stay in the past and other character filled there roles, like Stargirl.
Roy Thomas explained this. A battle with Ian Karkull caused them to be saturated with coronal energy which slowed their aging. They also got trapped in Asgard, forcing them to reenact Ragnarok over and over again for decades.
“Crisis of the secret house.”
Yeah you just want to do House of M. I’m also glad to see Zero Hour. Also everything with the JSA, the new team is probably my favorite. Sandy Hawkins, Atom Smasher, Mr Terrific, and Stargirl
I don't pick them, sorry. They're voted on by Patrons. More people wanted House of M, so they got it.
Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall oh yeah right; I’m not upset I just though the name was obvious lol
@@AT4W don’t you pick the ones people vote on?
12:35 I'll get the popcorn ready for Heroes in Crisis
This video flew by. Eagerly waiting for the next part.
So excited for the return of Event Comics month. And the return of Blind Guardian!!
Also little thing - adore the duck amuck reference on the title card, brilliant for issue zero
The funny thing about Triumph is that his creator, Mark Waid, would do a send up/pseudo-parody of him for an Avengers storyline called No Retreat, No Surrender, that actually kind of ties into another event being covered this month due to Hulk stuff.