Yes, KD:M doesn’t have a pre written narrative like ATO has. But the several times you start remembering and telling the great stories that happened while playing KD:M say everything. It’s more like a role playing game, the players create the story, the game is the sandbox that gives you all of the possibilities you need.
Thank you for this illuminating comparison :) I do love KDM to bits and never got ATO even though I had a Dollar in both campaigns. Thanks to your discussion I think I finally know why I never pulled the trigger on ATO. It made me realize that what I love most in KDM is the total freedom of decision with all consequences. That it is for the most part not scripted or guiding you on rails. The amazing stories that evolve by sheer randomness are burned into our collective memory to be reminisced on occasionally. The best example is the plague that caught us in LY2 of our first campaign killing our best couple. They did the "Last Night on Earth" thing and we had twins. One of them a saviour (thanks to inventing "The Bed" early ^^). Next hunt they went for the antelope and after returning got into a fight. The brother was murdered by his Saviour sister which then vanished into the night ... we met her again in another campaign ^^ At least we imagined it was her because she had turned all weird and twisted :P What I also like on KDM is the hobby side which saved me during the annoying Covid lock-downs. I quite enjoy building the miniatures. Really prefer hard plastic over PVC and paint the minis to a good standard. Even if we play other things I see them standing in the cabinet spuring my imagination. KDM feels infinitely replayable even if you know your preferred strategies already. It is a bit like Slay the Spire - use what you get and get as far as you can. Gamblers Chest with all its modules even added more mechanical variety. Frogdog is coming to gobble up the Lion and be our next early quarry and Campaigns of Death will open the system for short 5LY mini-campaigns. Not sure how replayable the ATO story feels. Do they bring a similar modularity to ATO with the Sins of Hercules? I get the Fate system but think the one lifetime re-roll is more suiting KDMs theme and needs. Still we do play co-op afterall and there is a tendency to be more lenient when I play with my friends. ^^ A further disadvantage of ATO is that it feels very text heavy. My friends struggle with English so I would have been forced to translate a lot on the fly. Even worse with all the Greek notations and expressions. It works for KDM as the texts are quite concise and easy to recap. During the fight you just need to know a few key words. Also think KDM has the best structured, beginner friendly rulebook ever. It was an eye opener the first time I opened it ... while ATO was a bit struggling in that respect it seems. Wonder how Paul Grogan's tutorial videos will turn out that will be released soon ^^ That said I think both games can live side by side in a collection. Seeing how much space modern games take up I will likely not get ATO even though I am tempted. If invied I would always love a taste though. ^^ Have some great campaigns and happy gaming to everyone!
This makes me want to get ATO back to the table. I played cycle 1 and it has become my favorite game, finally knocking Middara off the throne. KDM is tempting the cost and the building minis has prevented me from taking the plunge. Thanks for the video and continued great content.
Great discussion, I have lucky to have both. Scribe for ATO is very good, just as good as the KDM version. I hope he keeps supporting both apps!!! I have started to house rule KDM with a few ATO like rules around the tech tree, Innovations for example every other year - I draw two and pick one. Use my resources for gear.
@@BoardGamesUnLocked I used the Official ATO app for cycle 1 and 2. One of the best apps a company has produced. When start cycle 3, I plan to switch to Scribe. I think it has a bit more features that will help minimize table space.
@@BoardGamesUnLocked Currently, yes, it is a more complete option than the official app. I know they are planning an overhaul of the official app once they release the audio narration, and it does have a prettier interface, with actual game art, but ATO Scribe is currently noticeably more functional.
@@Fenraellis I downloaded it and you’re correct! I’m so ready for the audio narration. Any story driven campaign almost needs it at this point for me and ATO more than any. Lol I’m tired of mispronouncing names. Haha
When you get Mnestis theatre thats a huge addition to ATO. A way to meet the bosses at their strongest without consequence but where you can build your characters from everything youve gotten in the campaign. So if im not up for a lot of story today i can just choose one of the next bosses in the Mnestis and try that
I'm only a 4th of the way through the video. I like the concept but I feel like your being a bit misleading with price points for kdm. As a newer kdm backer in 2019. I feel even getting all the discounts and black Friday deals with just wave one stuff you are easily over the amount you guys said. Not even including all the new stuff. And shipping cost for ITU are way lower from their shop [in the us] compared to kdm. Like when you can drive to the shipping facility and poots is still charging 30 dollars to ship anything where itu can ship figures and ships for cheaper then Poland. Also ks prices for ATO were super cheap all in was initially about 250 for the original. I love both games but price 100% should go to itu. All in at ks 2 is cheaper then wave one expansions for kdm
I have both games (I'm stupid) and I have to say, ever since I got ATO KDM just never gets played anymore. I understand what some people see in it and why they might prefer it, but for me, I'm all the way into the ATO camp now and so is my group. ATO is, for us, just better at what it does. Even if....there is the mountain of jank and lack of proper player aid in there. KDM will probably be sold soon once I stop being lazy about it.
I totally see where you're coming from. Luckily, my friend has everything for KDM so we're doing a campaign for that and then I'll have everything for ATO so it's the best of both worlds. Just use the money you get from KDM and put it towards a house down payment or something. Lol
I love both games for different reasons. But I have to say that ATO is kind of a mess😂There’s so many rules and a lot of the rules are there because the game needs balancing. So we as players are balancing the game via all these rules. The tech tree in ATO is dreadful also. It’s way too much over way too many cards. But ATO is great with story and great with world building and it’s so exciting with all the secret cards. In KDM the fight is the story basically. It’s cool but can get a little tedious.
Great video, I enjoy both games a lot. I don't know if I can decide between them as it depends what mood I am in. Also, ATO does have a sort of random terrain in that you get bonus terrain depending on the stories you encounter during exploration.
KDM would be interesting for me if I didn't have to pay almost 100 euros in VAT. Makes the core box as expensive as all 5 AT:O cycles, which is a tiebreaker for me :/
The new stuff for ATO coming out is ridiculously expensive considering it's also priced in Euros...that's coming from someone who has thousands invested in KDM and owns the first wave of ATO.
I have played and own both, and KDM is just (in my opinion) a far superior game. Traveling feels pointless; all adventure hubs are disconnected from your actual location on the map. The story time is HUGE - it sometimes takes 1-3 HOURS of story before you get into a fight. The fights/gear is way less diverse than in KDM. ATO holds your hand a lot like it is scared you break the system. Also, after some time I really got disconnected from the story and feel like it is not engaging. It is not my story, it is a story I am told.
@@BoardGamesUnLocked Ah, sorry, I was listening to the availability portion when I wrote that comment (Was multitasking). You're correct on both fronts, having both games, KDM has/does a lot more to get money out of you, with many many more monster expansions + white box survivors that do come with game content. It used to be very difficult to acquire KDM expansions w/o being forced to pay scalper prices on the secondary market, but the team has done great in keeping most everything well stocked as of recently. Both fantastic games.
@@BoardGamesUnLocked Let me rephrase the statement made above. Both games are phenomenal, but KDM ultimately nudges out the overall win (for me). I agree with the points made in your video so far (I'm halfway through). I'm also a big boss battler nut and have played most of the big miniature ones. ATO I finished Cycle 1 and halfway through Cycle 2. KDM I've played a bunch but not as much as I want, or any of the expansion that I own yet. But I think I've seen enough to be able to compare them. The thing I like most about ATO that's lacking in KDM is the way you can use Fate to reroll (push your luck). However, the theme, the monster design and personality and the settlement building in KDM is better than in ATO in my opinion. And how brutal the fights can go, survivors losing limbs and stuff, I really like the immersion. Both games are excellent end of the day :) But KDM is king.
@@kobusbrits3523 Monsters start becoming impossible the higher you get in the cycles at least KDM has scaling, and if you're not ready to fight the higher end monsters you can farm to try and get there. Unfortunately the penalties for losing the game being the same as winning is one of the things that's been holding back KDM in ways. But at least they give bonuses for losing or winning depending on how many times you do.
@@BunnyStomper3000 Which of them do you prefer? I felt the monster scaling in ATO was done pretty well. For cycle 1 at least. In KDM it's nice having the option to go back to lower level monsters, especially with new survivors. There wasn't a lot of motivation to take the risk for level 3 monsters until recently with Indomitable resources and the new system in Gambler's Chest. I appreciate that both games have a "fail forward system".
Yes, KD:M doesn’t have a pre written narrative like ATO has. But the several times you start remembering and telling the great stories that happened while playing KD:M say everything. It’s more like a role playing game, the players create the story, the game is the sandbox that gives you all of the possibilities you need.
You are correct there. Both do narrative telling in completely different ways and both work!
Thank you for this illuminating comparison :) I do love KDM to bits and never got ATO even though I had a Dollar in both campaigns.
Thanks to your discussion I think I finally know why I never pulled the trigger on ATO.
It made me realize that what I love most in KDM is the total freedom of decision with all consequences. That it is for the most part not scripted or guiding you on rails. The amazing stories that evolve by sheer randomness are burned into our collective memory to be reminisced on occasionally.
The best example is the plague that caught us in LY2 of our first campaign killing our best couple. They did the "Last Night on Earth" thing and we had twins. One of them a saviour (thanks to inventing "The Bed" early ^^). Next hunt they went for the antelope and after returning got into a fight. The brother was murdered by his Saviour sister which then vanished into the night ... we met her again in another campaign ^^ At least we imagined it was her because she had turned all weird and twisted :P
What I also like on KDM is the hobby side which saved me during the annoying Covid lock-downs. I quite enjoy building the miniatures. Really prefer hard plastic over PVC and paint the minis to a good standard. Even if we play other things I see them standing in the cabinet spuring my imagination.
KDM feels infinitely replayable even if you know your preferred strategies already. It is a bit like Slay the Spire - use what you get and get as far as you can. Gamblers Chest with all its modules even added more mechanical variety. Frogdog is coming to gobble up the Lion and be our next early quarry and Campaigns of Death will open the system for short 5LY mini-campaigns.
Not sure how replayable the ATO story feels. Do they bring a similar modularity to ATO with the Sins of Hercules? I get the Fate system but think the one lifetime re-roll is more suiting KDMs theme and needs. Still we do play co-op afterall and there is a tendency to be more lenient when I play with my friends. ^^
A further disadvantage of ATO is that it feels very text heavy. My friends struggle with English so I would have been forced to translate a lot on the fly. Even worse with all the Greek notations and expressions. It works for KDM as the texts are quite concise and easy to recap. During the fight you just need to know a few key words.
Also think KDM has the best structured, beginner friendly rulebook ever. It was an eye opener the first time I opened it ... while ATO was a bit struggling in that respect it seems. Wonder how Paul Grogan's tutorial videos will turn out that will be released soon ^^
That said I think both games can live side by side in a collection. Seeing how much space modern games take up I will likely not get ATO even though I am tempted. If invied I would always love a taste though. ^^
Have some great campaigns and happy gaming to everyone!
Excellent conversation and break down of each.
This makes me want to get ATO back to the table. I played cycle 1 and it has become my favorite game, finally knocking Middara off the throne. KDM is tempting the cost and the building minis has prevented me from taking the plunge. Thanks for the video and continued great content.
Lol after the evangelion reference I just realized ... Evangelion shield is AT field... ATO shield are Aeon Trespass (same abbreviation)
Great discussion, I have lucky to have both. Scribe for ATO is very good, just as good as the KDM version. I hope he keeps supporting both apps!!! I have started to house rule KDM with a few ATO like rules around the tech tree, Innovations for example every other year - I draw two and pick one. Use my resources for gear.
Thanks! I wasn’t aware there was a scribe for ATO! Do you think it’s better than the official ATO app?
@@BoardGamesUnLocked I used the Official ATO app for cycle 1 and 2. One of the best apps a company has produced. When start cycle 3, I plan to switch to Scribe. I think it has a bit more features that will help minimize table space.
Mind sharing your ATO house rules for KDM? The main thing I miss from ATO is using Fate to reroll. Such a good mechanic.
@@BoardGamesUnLocked Currently, yes, it is a more complete option than the official app. I know they are planning an overhaul of the official app once they release the audio narration, and it does have a prettier interface, with actual game art, but ATO Scribe is currently noticeably more functional.
@@Fenraellis I downloaded it and you’re correct! I’m so ready for the audio narration. Any story driven campaign almost needs it at this point for me and ATO more than any. Lol I’m tired of mispronouncing names. Haha
When you get Mnestis theatre thats a huge addition to ATO. A way to meet the bosses at their strongest without consequence but where you can build your characters from everything youve gotten in the campaign. So if im not up for a lot of story today i can just choose one of the next bosses in the Mnestis and try that
Oh that’s a good point! I totally forgot to bring that up so thanks for the mention!
I'm only a 4th of the way through the video. I like the concept but I feel like your being a bit misleading with price points for kdm. As a newer kdm backer in 2019. I feel even getting all the discounts and black Friday deals with just wave one stuff you are easily over the amount you guys said. Not even including all the new stuff. And shipping cost for ITU are way lower from their shop [in the us] compared to kdm. Like when you can drive to the shipping facility and poots is still charging 30 dollars to ship anything where itu can ship figures and ships for cheaper then Poland. Also ks prices for ATO were super cheap all in was initially about 250 for the original. I love both games but price 100% should go to itu. All in at ks 2 is cheaper then wave one expansions for kdm
I have both games (I'm stupid) and I have to say, ever since I got ATO KDM just never gets played anymore. I understand what some people see in it and why they might prefer it, but for me, I'm all the way into the ATO camp now and so is my group. ATO is, for us, just better at what it does. Even if....there is the mountain of jank and lack of proper player aid in there.
KDM will probably be sold soon once I stop being lazy about it.
I totally see where you're coming from. Luckily, my friend has everything for KDM so we're doing a campaign for that and then I'll have everything for ATO so it's the best of both worlds. Just use the money you get from KDM and put it towards a house down payment or something. Lol
I love both games for different reasons. But I have to say that ATO is kind of a mess😂There’s so many rules and a lot of the rules are there because the game needs balancing. So we as players are balancing the game via all these rules. The tech tree in ATO is dreadful also. It’s way too much over way too many cards.
But ATO is great with story and great with world building and it’s so exciting with all the secret cards.
In KDM the fight is the story basically. It’s cool but can get a little tedious.
Great video, I enjoy both games a lot. I don't know if I can decide between them as it depends what mood I am in.
Also, ATO does have a sort of random terrain in that you get bonus terrain depending on the stories you encounter during exploration.
KDM would be interesting for me if I didn't have to pay almost 100 euros in VAT. Makes the core box as expensive as all 5 AT:O cycles, which is a tiebreaker for me :/
@@simonherrmann7307 Oh that’s interesting! Yea, I imagine that shipping prices are heavily considered for areas outside of the US
The new stuff for ATO coming out is ridiculously expensive considering it's also priced in Euros...that's coming from someone who has thousands invested in KDM and owns the first wave of ATO.
I have played and own both, and KDM is just (in my opinion) a far superior game. Traveling feels pointless; all adventure hubs are disconnected from your actual location on the map. The story time is HUGE - it sometimes takes 1-3 HOURS of story before you get into a fight. The fights/gear is way less diverse than in KDM.
ATO holds your hand a lot like it is scared you break the system. Also, after some time I really got disconnected from the story and feel like it is not engaging. It is not my story, it is a story I am told.
I agree with this.
KDM absolutely *eclipses* ATO in terms of price lol
Did we not say that ATO wins on price?
@@BoardGamesUnLocked Ah, sorry, I was listening to the availability portion when I wrote that comment (Was multitasking). You're correct on both fronts, having both games, KDM has/does a lot more to get money out of you, with many many more monster expansions + white box survivors that do come with game content. It used to be very difficult to acquire KDM expansions w/o being forced to pay scalper prices on the secondary market, but the team has done great in keeping most everything well stocked as of recently. Both fantastic games.
KDM is king
Why do you say that, though?
@@BoardGamesUnLockedkneel before Pootsie
@@BoardGamesUnLocked Let me rephrase the statement made above. Both games are phenomenal, but KDM ultimately nudges out the overall win (for me).
I agree with the points made in your video so far (I'm halfway through). I'm also a big boss battler nut and have played most of the big miniature ones. ATO I finished Cycle 1 and halfway through Cycle 2. KDM I've played a bunch but not as much as I want, or any of the expansion that I own yet. But I think I've seen enough to be able to compare them.
The thing I like most about ATO that's lacking in KDM is the way you can use Fate to reroll (push your luck). However, the theme, the monster design and personality and the settlement building in KDM is better than in ATO in my opinion. And how brutal the fights can go, survivors losing limbs and stuff, I really like the immersion.
Both games are excellent end of the day :) But KDM is king.
@@kobusbrits3523 Monsters start becoming impossible the higher you get in the cycles at least KDM has scaling, and if you're not ready to fight the higher end monsters you can farm to try and get there. Unfortunately the penalties for losing the game being the same as winning is one of the things that's been holding back KDM in ways. But at least they give bonuses for losing or winning depending on how many times you do.
@@BunnyStomper3000 Which of them do you prefer? I felt the monster scaling in ATO was done pretty well. For cycle 1 at least. In KDM it's nice having the option to go back to lower level monsters, especially with new survivors. There wasn't a lot of motivation to take the risk for level 3 monsters until recently with Indomitable resources and the new system in Gambler's Chest. I appreciate that both games have a "fail forward system".