While Invasions suck, at least you are adding something to the Duel-Community by encouraging people to try out new/unusal weapons and sets that may not be the best option, but something fresh. I really love your videos. DamnNoHtml, in my opinion, is a cancer to the dark souls community because he actively tells people they only should use Meta-Weapons, he ONLY plays reactive because thats the only way he can play obviously which has nothing to do with skill, its just the cheapest way to win, and that he obviously prefers. He even goes so far to encourage people to exploit the lag in this game and walk into attacks, knowing they wont hit him and attack afterwards. I dont know why everyone supports him, he is part of the problem and tells people they also should be part of it. What do you think?
I feel like DS3 hates me at times. I invade, 4v1 im fucked. I get invaded, by 2-3 people simultaneously (Farron/Aldrich after invaders). lolwut. I'll add that I'm always playing solo, don't use the dried finger bones or whatever it's called. from pls y u do this :'(
Hah, that reminds me. The Loyal Spirit covenants can summon up to three invaders at a time (four if you have a Finger activated, I think), and I was playing solo, working my way through the Crucifixion Woods, then bam; THREE Watchdogs in a row. Yep. I was fucked. It was fun, though. Loyal Spirits are by far the most fun methods of invading for me, since you don't lose Souls upon death. Not so fun, however, when you GET invaded by them.
+rabbit7651 I dont know what system you are on (im on pc) but at around soul level 70 or so I would get summoned as a darkmoon blade about 20 seconds after returning from the last host's world. I think one thing that helped would be that I would hang out near popular invasion spots (Irythyll, Anor Londo, A. Peak etc.)
+rabbit7651 I've always think that the way that From would solve this is by deleting the Way of Blue Covenant and kinda do like in DS2, that you can get a blue eye orb to invade as a justice phantom against someone who invaded or that you can be summoned if the other pkayer has the Blade of the Darkmoon/Blue Sentinels Covenant or final method, as you are equiped with the Way of Blue covenant you can see blue soapstone signs from people who are BS/BotDM and summon them (of course only one per invasion)
I've never popped a dried finger, but I got invaded by 5 aldritch at Pontiff. At first it was one, then i killed him and suddenly there were four people at once.
It's uncanny how all of these critiques are perfeclty transferable to Elden Ring's pvp, which is objectively more stacked against invaders than any other Souls ever. So what happened? Are they intentionally going from bad to worse with each game until pvp expires on its own? All of these issues were never fixed, and yet the game turned out to be super long-lived. So it's a matter of resignation and adjustment all over again, only with worse conditions this time? This video speaks volumes on how pvp has developed and what people should expect from ER's future.
@@disposablehero1235 if viable means run to them, roll and magicaly avoid 90% of damage then yes are viable xD and more if you think that wizards have less health and even less mana in invations or multiplayer in general
@@sorioc9588 Eh, they're not all like that. Stars of Ruin and Star Shower are some that you actually need to think about how to get away from it. They're also fast enough that they work well as roll catches, or are quick enough that it's hard to react to them.
100% Agree. FROM dropped the ball here. It really sucks, it does feel like a change solely to pander to a more casual audience and sell copies of the game without much care for its longevity. DS3 did something I thought no game would - It made me appreciate DS2.
which all got patched(even sm in a way with agape ring) so yes they did care about the end game otherwise there wouldnt have been so many rebalancing patches throughout the games live
Nimeron fühn it took them 1 year yes but i never said im not gonna give ds3 that time and wait on it to evolve that being said:dear lord your builds in ds2 must suck if you cant sacrifice one ringslot for agape ring to stay at a certain sm tier look im not even arguing that ds2s system with the matchmaking was perfect but it certainly did one thing right: it matched you with way more players than any other soulsgame. sure there were level differences but if you stayed within the sm tier of 3-5 mill you never met anybody behyond sl 200 and ill be honest i much more enjoy seeing a lot of diffrent builds than this stale quality build garbage system we have right now in ds3
I just don't understand why someone would WANT to go through the entire game with 3 phantoms. You should only summon help if you're having trouble with a specific boss or enemy, and even then 1 phantom is more than enough. WAY too often, people summon 3 phantoms right before going into an area for the FIRST time. I feel like having 3 helpers at all times kinda ruins the point of the game. You can't scour the level looking for items and secrets when you've got phantoms waiting for you to get to the boss, and the atmosphere of some levels is thrown out the window when you've got 3 other people watching your back. I'm not alone in this belief, right?
+gedodude I just don't see it. To each their own, I guess, but if I want some Co-op fun I play Borderlands or something. Dark Souls, and every Souls game for that mattet, always struck me as a single player game with some nice multiplayer elements. Never as a full-on multiplayer game.
Because fun? Did my first 2 playthroughs solo, trying to plan a full co-op run with a couple of mates for the third one because playing Golden Axe Souls seems like it could be a lot of fun.
If you've ever seen youtubers like Tomato Gaming, Criken2 and even VaatiVidya co-oping in Dark Souls 3 then you'll get why having friends around to play through the game is one of the best ways to enjoy it. It's a very enjoyable when everyone is a souls fan or you've got that one friend who's never played it before and freaks out at a boss that just totaled everyone else but him lol. Though if you're just summoning 3 random phantoms I guess that could be somewhat fun for some people but otherwise I'd agree with you that it sounds pretty boring.
I completely understand that point. Taking on the archives alone sucked, but it was One of the best experiences in the game. The climb to the top of the building, facing down enemies on the long bridge, and the inevitable boss fight with the princes.
Because they're having fun and thats the end of the story? The fact that you have to justify how you are enjoying the game YOU bought by playing it how you want at the expense of no one else shows how toxic the invasion system is.
I just hope they will allow invasions even if the area boss is deafeated. This can be simply done by modifying "dried finger" so when you use it you can get invaded even if you already completed the area. I see no reason for not allowing this, it will boost and save the online activity.
Will it though? To me that just seems like a duel. If you dried finger, to get invaded, but can't summon phantoms and have the world against you...what does that accomplish? Sure it probably will make invasions slightly more active, but for the person wanting to get invaded, why do it? And for the invader, you will still have half flask AND -30% hp, because you invaded. Forgive me if I'm not seeing the point of it as I haven't played ds2 or know the reasonings of why that would "save online activity"
PWARGaming It will actually solve the invasion issue. It's obnoxious to see that you have to wait 5minutes sometimes just to find a player to invade, even if you're right in the meta SL and there are like 20thousand people online. Dried finger is made for the sole purpose to get invaded. But it becomes completely useless once you've already completed an area. Plus the fact that you can't invade players that already completed the area restrics too much the pool, and if it's already slow right now that the game is relatively new, just imagine waitinng 20minutes to invade someone.. which will happen in a few months if this doesn't get solved. Using dried finger is a player choice, and if I want to get invaded I know the consequencies. Plus it won't change anything for the invaders as if a player completed or not the area, it's just the same for the one invading. But this will definitely boost (a lot!) the online activity. Best Regards.
As someone from the future who is replaying DS3 I can safely say it really doesn't matter. Like honestly that's the take away people got from this? Can't invade players in areas they have already beaten? Once I grab all items in an area I'm NEVER coming back to the area. Plain and simple. Or do you really expect people to actually love PVP in Dark Souls so much they're just going to loiter in an empty area as they wait to invade? Out of the entire series I never would've thought PVP would be so vital to Dark Souls lifespan...and it isn't. Plenty of people still play Dark Souls 3 because ultimately it is a single player experience. PVP was trash and will always be trash because it was never a primary focus to begin with. It's literally a tacked on feature. They were going to ship DS with no multiplayer! But because of gaming trends they shoved it in anyways. Pretty annoying too since a lot of weapons/spells get changed due to the pvp environment and ruins pve aspects. Honestly anyone who likes Dark Souls Pvp must have very low standards.
People talk about it, but then get yelled at for insinuating that Miyazaki-sama's product isn't completely perfect and then dismiss it out of hand rather than listen to it. Not that it matters. I don't think FromSoft has shown to be a company that listens to or seems to give two hoots about what their player base thinks. That's both good and bad.
+David Carper There's a lot of bias. The things that drew us all to the series are things prevalent in Miyazaki's games, so we'll always be grateful for that, but really the PvP element has been a secondary concern for him. For better and for worse. I loved the single player in Dark Souls 3, I played through the game repeatedly, but I don't see myself putting in as much time as I did with DS2, a game I was still playing up until the release of DS3. In fact I haven't really played DS3 much in the last week. There's just not much variety, both in terms of viable builds and because of a lot of the invasion mechanics.
Bloody Kojak It is, but the outside-of-Japan demographic is quite a lot larger than the Japanese demographic now, so it'd be very silly to ignore the wants of the many in favor of focusing on the few.
literally couldnt agree more, like holy shit in regards to the build diversity thing as well id like to see a video on that, we had loads of videos for ds2 and there was some we didnt have time to make before ds3 and yet we struggle for ideas in ds3 because nothing is remotely viable and the lack of poise and roll threshholds make everything feel the same anyway
If you had played other Souls titles before DS3, you would notice the saddest thing that changed now : noob gankers who would cry about being invaded were something like silent minority. In DS3 they've become vocal majority.
It is because the series got so popular, there was a HUGE wave of new players, and that became the majority this time around. Not to say 'It use to be better back in my day!' but; Dark Souls use to be a real tight nit group of people, and as it grew more popular, it became less and less more entertaining for the veterans, and more newbie-friendly.
When you get invaded it should be "Oh shit someone invade me!" In Dark Souls 3 it's more like "Lol another invader is coming." Invaders are now pathetic phantom that are laughable at.
@JakubPlatypus cringe and blue-pilled. My favorites are the 1+3 co-op memers who then throw on way of the blue so it becomes a 1v6. I thought about switching from invasions to just red soaping which I always thought was the universal "Hey, let's have a 1v1 duel" but nope, I get summoned into gank squad + WotB and hit staggered left, right, and center. DS3 was purposefully designed to strongly, strongly, strongly, strongly discourage invasions. I think a lot of pvp memes from Scholar of the First Sin were the result of that. Backstepping was really fucking powerful in Scholar, attack canceling would jebait PVE co-opers 100% of the time. Every build is full Havel's + mutliple UGS + Sorc/Faith/Pyro. Dark Souls 3 was designed to discourage invasions, and reward people who struggle with the game. Feelsrealbadman. The worst thing is, if I get lucky and find someone to 1v1, as soon as I start winning, they sprint off and throw on WotB and within ten seconds two blues will spawn. WotB shouldn't work if you aren't wearing it when you get invaded in my opinion, or if you have phantoms summoned. Being able to effortlessly steamroll 6v1 seems so counter to typical Souls' gameplay. Typically now I just BC out. Probably doesn't help that I play off-meta weapons, but it's just 1000x more fun for me to try to play with the Greatlance than katana or UGS memes.
Speaking of estocs, anyone else notice that nearly every straight sword the blacksmith has made is an estoc? All over his table behind him are estocs and even the sword he's currently forging is an estoc. Coincidence?
DaS3 is my first Souls game. I never once had to summon a phantom for any boss, minus a few NPCs, since y'know, certain questlines and, forget any area. The fact these people summon Phantoms, Finger up, and then do nothing but gank once invaded, then proceed to TAUNT over my corpse, as if they're any good at the game makes my blood boil. I'm shit at parrying other players -- latency's too much of a bitch for that to happen, so I stand virtually no chance against ganks unless they're really bad or I somehow pull through. Sigh, I wish I was involved in this community during its prime with DaS1. People undermine the true, yet fair, challenge of the game. NK was one of the best boss battles I had ever experienced, yet people summon 3 other Phantoms to make it trivial. Sad.
+zdechlaczek521 Yeah, I could always do that, but one part of DaS that makes it for me is the lore, and the brilliant execution of bosses and such. DaS2's PvP seems so much more fun, but the bosses and originality just... seem to lack so much? There do seem to be good bosses here and there, such as the Old Ivory King, but everything else seems so bland and generic. The Old Iron King is basically any stereotypical Demon-ish creature, and I'm certain the poor design choices alone would make me feel like I'm playing some sorta ripoff. Considering picking up Bloodborne, though. Much faster paced, great boss design, and okay-ish PvP, from what I could tell.
True, Dark Souls 2 was the odd one out, however, I personally believe it suffers from that. Dark Souls 2 is my least played dark souls since I started playing 2 years ago. Why? Because the PvE feels like a chore with no memorable bosses outside of the dlc. The dlc had amazing PvE but the main game aka where 30+ of the bosses are is really boring. Dark Souls 3 may not be the most original by any means, but at least the bosses are more complex than in dark souls and dark souls 2. That's only my opinion though.
I spent about 10 minutes thinking about how to counteract stupid shit like this, and here are my ideas: 1) If an invader invades a host with allies/phantoms, the invader is placed at full health with all of his Estus (or 20% less, idk) 2) If an invader kills a host's phantom, the host can't summon the same phantom for (maybe) 2 minutes (a timer will be placed on the ally's summon sign to signify when he can be summoned again) 3) Blue Sentinels/Darkmoons won't spawn in if the host already has 2+ phantoms. 4) Invasions can still happen after the boss is killed, but only if the host uses a dried finger. (I'm not exactly sure how it worked in Dark Souls 2, as I haven't played that game in years.) that way, people that want to be invaded can be invaded. Thoughts? It pisses me off because I only spent 10 minutes thinking about this, and I've already created a more balanced system than the one FromSoft has implemented.
-Invasions occurred whether hollow or not. -incremental penalization towards health per death -Only (1) starter Estus in NG. -R1 spam less viable due to some amount of poise existing. While yes, in DS2 you can run into the occasional 5v1 match-up, in DS3 that's an every other invasion kind of thing.
Don't forget that even if you manage to survive long enough for some Red backup, your phantom opponents can spam UGS R1's all day without worrying about killing their teammates. Not you.
The road ahead is a treacherous one my friend... I see your future and it is bleak. Just stay strong and keep a level head. You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take from you!
+Mike the Man Your comment was a complete waste of time, please delete it. Saying someone has 'A shitty opinion' just shows that you have no actual argument.
Two things. Deliberate gankers and the seeds. One, the Seed of a Giant tree lasts effectively forever. Rarity is a shitty way to balance the seed, though, because people can farm it, revert to a prior save to get it back, or just plain old hack them in and never get caught because there's no way to prove that they didn't farm it from your perspective. A seed should only last thirty to sixty seconds, maybe even two minutes - enough time to flush a passive invader out of hiding, but not so long that the invader loses their sole advantage. The thirty seconds to two minutes is time the host will need to clear through those enemy mobs (forcing them to progress) or else the invader will simply go back to hiding among the enemies. A host can have up to five seeds - that's enough to eventually chip their way to the fog gate if an invader decides they're only going to hide among the most difficult enemies. Two, intentional gankers have far too many tools when the game should be actively hindering their efforts. If a ganker wants to gank, they summon two friends and they can gank away. They get prioritized, but they don't risk being outnumbered. Even if they use a dried finger, you're unlikely to get enough allies to stand a chance against the gank squad. Worlds with phantoms should no longer be prioritized. Instead, the Blue Sentinels and Darkmoon Blades are given an overhaul. All nonsinners are subject to the protection of the Darkmoon Blades and the Blue Sentinels by default, and players must instead opt out of this protection by talking to an NPC such as the Velka statue (nonsinners can opt back into protection). Sinners can equip the Way of Blue to still receive protection from the Blue Sentinels, Darkmoons however will only protect nonsinners. This allows all new players, regardless of how ignorant they are of the games' systems, to receive protection from other players from invaders - an emphasis should be given on making sure blues are summoned quickly, preferably at the same time as the red enters the world, and by the host's side. This also plays into the fantasy of those joining the blue covenants, as they're far more likely to be actually protecting a player in need rather than being shanghaied into a gank squad. Players that wish to exclusively protect sinless players can now make that a deliberate choice by choosing to become a Darkmoon instead of a Blue Sentinel, differentiating the covenants in flavor without altering either factions' ethos. If you have friendly phantoms, you simply should not be allowed to summon dark spirits, and if you have RSS dark spirits you should not be able to summon friendly phantoms. Dark spirits cannot be summoned into a seeded world. This is straightforward, if you summon an RSS dark spirit you are summoning them to duel, no one should ever be summoned into a gank. Sure, gankers could still summon red phantom buddies to attempt to gank, but this is far more incovenient for the gankers as now they have to deal with friendly fire in addition to the risk of being invaded, they lose advantages. The Dried Finger should not be used to summon additional phantoms, and in fact it should only be usable if you have no friendly phantoms present and it locks you out of further summons. The Dried Finger is for those that wish to be invaded and them alone, gankers should not be able to use the Dried Finger to gank. To summon a third friendly phantom, you must instead burn two embers in addition to being embered yourself. These suggestions make intentionally setting up a gank harder without too severely impacting the experience of players who are only interested in PvE. Blues are more likely to get to play the hero, which win or lose is still an incredibly cool experience for the host and a wonderful introduction to PvP. Seeds, even if hacked, are no longer OP but still keep invaders from just camping jailers and bringing invasions to a standstill. Duelists no longer have to worry about being summoned into three people R1 spamming their spawn. And no one has to see the same fucking ganker over and over again every invasion because they've got a Dried Finger popped. For most honest players, there's no change, they're not punished for using phantoms or any more likely to die to an invader. But for those that intentionally gum up a flawed matchmaking system with bad fights, it becomes far too time-consuming to be worthwhile. It's hard enough to get three people to play a game together, it's nearly impossible to get them to stand around doing nothing for 20 minutes at a time for 2 minutes worth of trolling. Oh, and everyone should be able to invaded even if the boss is dead. That we're seriously considering the Smouldering Lake just because the boss there is optional is incredibly stupid, we should be able to pick any spot in the game and have fun with our fight clubs and invasions. Just don't let people summon friendly phantoms in areas where the boss is dead so sunbros don't get blueballed.
EVERY SINGLE BOSS ARENA is worthy of being a PvP hotspot, but after fucking 5 GAMES and a DECADES worth of experience, they can't seem to get it into their heads that players LIKE fighting other players, and might ENJOY fighting in these large spacious flat arenas.
I agree with most of the suggestions, but IMO when you summon RSS with a password, you should be able to summon white phantoms, it allows for some pretty creative games.
I'm sorry, but how exactly does the AGAPE RING in DaS2 help to twink? If a noob has been super careful about not losing souls, and has put every soul earned into stats and the exact equipment being used in their build, then how much of a disadvantage could they be at? I would venture the answer is that a Twink could farm for upgrade material and have some +10 equipment. But even then, if the noob is careful, they might have less upgrade material invested into equipment, but they would have the stats to survive. There is no way around spending souls to upgrade gear. So every piece upgraded are points not used in stats. If the twink wants to have a ton of OP weapons at their disposal, they will have to give up stats to do it. And that's the rub. The careful noob put all their souls into stats and a few main weapons. The twink put their souls into stats and maxed a few weapons. In the end, in this scenario, the noob isn't at a huge disadvantage. The might not have +10 equipment, maybe +6 or whatever, but the gap isn't huge. One of my fav DaS1 invasion videos is called "Slow walk invasions with the Rotten Horror". This twink build had a bunch of maxed out weaponry, but for fun, he cast Iron Flesh so that he would slow walk. Having let a head parasite infect and transform his head into a maggot face, and wearing the Stone Armor, he looked like a very intimidating figure slow walking around. His personal viewpoint was that he enjoyed giving new players a tough, but fair PvP experience. He was literally like a mini-boss for noobs. But it was a fun way to twink. In DaS2, all of the amazing equipment he used would have ultimately put him at a disadvantage, since the souls invested into equipment sitting in inventory wouldn't be helping him battle. Whereas the careful noob has all of their souls active in their stats and the few pieces of equipment used. In DaS1, there was no penalty to farming everything you wanted to max level. You could max everything. But that will only get you killed in DaS2. So, what if anything, am I missing about twinking in Das2? There may be some good reasons behind why you say "so From made the Agape ring, and said "fuck it"". But the Agape only helps you to pinpoint the tiers at which you want to invade at, and helps to keep you there. Once you equip it, any upgrades to your build will necessarily involve moving ever higher up the SM brackets. The only way that twinking in DaS2 could replicate the DaS1 experience is if the noob player loses a bunch of souls by not retrieving their bloodstain, or spreading souls thinly among a bunch of weak gear. But then the real gap will be felt in player skill, not in smashing face because of simply better gear, even if that is a factor. I get that Soul Memory wasn't perfect. But even after 4 soulsbourne titles, Miyazaki couldn't get invasions right in DaS3. In the end, perhaps this is more subjective than objective, DaS2 was a better designed multiplayer experience for keeping the game going over the long term. Twink builds are kept in check, with or without the Agape ring. And invasions can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere. Long live Dark Souls 2!
They also ripped the horrible scaling system from Bloodborne which invalidates any potential magic damage that you should be able to do with your weapons. DS2 used a BNS system, where scaling was determined by taking a % (letter value) of the BNS value that was determined by your stats, rings, etc. DS3's system takes your stat, multiplies it by the % letter, then multiplies it by the base damage of the weapon. This means you need to have a large existing AR in order to get good scaling, and that doesn't exist on any of the magic weapons nor can you get it via infusions. Also, the fact they added the refined infusion means that every weapon is used better with a quality build.
This game has just set up the most meta based pvp in Souls history. Yeah I mean it was bad in previous games like with Giantdad or full Havels, but you'd see them every now and then. This game? I hope you enjoy seeing that twin sellsword darkmoon blade, or the dark sword. I guess all Im saying is just watch the latest Oroboro video if you want to see the new meta.
I have literally never seen darkmoon sellsword. I see Dark Swords maybe 5% of the time. You have some serious rose tinted goggles on if you don't remember the meta of DS2 and how prevalent it was.
Totally agree, I've found myself barely invading either. Connectivity issues haven't been too big a deal for me, I remember having a lot more problems with DS2, but the odds of winning 3 or 4v1 fights without a strength weapon and hornet ring is obscene. Also, perfect example of what you said, I've got a clip invading a host in Undead Settlement with 3 phantoms - a full Gundyr, an Artorias with Gotthards and a dude with Smoughs hammer, and I had a deep battle axe. Dat balance. Still won though!
Fight Clubs are the only safe haven for pvp in this game. More than anything I wish Darkmoon invasions weren't limited to the few hosts who are way of blue.
Oh you poor souls, just wait until elden ring comes around. The invasions will die 3 months after release, you can only invade players that are using dried tongue, there’s a 4 player limit, an invasion timer of 2 minutes before you reach an error connection, password summon scaling is broken, and you can only invade 3% of your level down, but 50% of your level up. Also, solo invasions are gone, so you can only invade ganks or people who will enter a boss fog as soon as you enter their world. Fromsoft has doubled down on killing invasions to appeal to a wider audience
I completely agree. I was very excited to have an active online community in a new Dark Souls game so that I could invade and have a good time without having to be optimized or "meta." Unfortunately it turned out to be almost impossible to win at invasions in this game without having some kind of ridiculous optimized oneshot build. 90% of invasions aren't even fun enough to justify trying again. I pretty much stick to duels now but I really wish I could just invade from time to time to shake it up a little like I did in dks2.
It was released at 40 rather than the full 60, which was actually a good deal. Not only did you get an overhauled version of the game, all the DLCs, but it also allowed more available players which was fantastic for fight clubs. So I had no complaints buying that version of the game.
You're making it sound like invasions are supposed to be fair. They aren't, for either side and they're not supposed to be. Invasions are more of a challenge mode than anything else. If you want to fight "fair" then you use the red sign.
Thank for for voicing literally everything I've been thinking to myself about invasions in ds3. Invasions have always been the major part of my game. I love invading with a passion. So imagine my dismay when I finally get to the meta SL and I can't find any regular non-3v1 invasions at any place in the game. It honestly broke my heart because I was so excited for the game and FromSoft essentially said "Well fuck you and your fun" I agree with your statement about he longevity of the game. I honestly believe because of what they've done not even dedicated souls players will be sticking around very long. It's already happening. So sad.
as sad as i feel saying it, fact is that DS3 went down from around 110 000 players active on steam to 3 000. five freaking months after release. DS1 has 1600 and it's five *years* old. that just about sums up the state of the pvp i think.
have you ever tried invading at Archdeacon Peak 2nd bonfire? it's right after a boss, so more players are embedded and the number of phantoms summoned there tends to be lower than average. Enemies are pretty beefy straight out of the gate, and the bonfire area is also an absolute deathtrap so you can't camp and repeatedly summon phantoms. It's been my favorite spot for a while.
Aldrich Faithfuls is actually really active you keep your souls when you die you cant hit other faithfuls cause you are on the same team and the level isnt too big so its easy to find the host
Yeah I switched over from Sentinels/Darkmoon to AF. It's literally the only thing that works for me right now. Might get into the soggy bottom boys covenant later, but not really interested in those areas.
***** yeah this type of thing happens to everyone. as a faithful, ive been betrayed more times than i can count by reds and purps. its just how things are.
Watching this video 3 months after Elden Ring, it honestly sparks hope for me since I can see that ds3 was just as complained about as ER yet it still managed to prevail
And you've not even analyzed the combat metagame.. which is better than dark souls 1, but that's it, dark souls 1 polished. At DS2 actions took time to start/recover, empty stamina bar was a real warning, you could make standard moves faster after roll/run attacks, backsteps, left hand mechanics, weapon tracking different on every weapon class/attack move. Poise was decent, so many playstyles.. Meh, it just ignored everything that ds2 did great.
Is a shame how each sequel of the souls series seems to leave out the good parts like from DS2 to DS3 why can't you be invaded after a boss was killed?! I loved that feature from DS2 and made the game feel that much more alive. Say what you will about DS2 I still think is maybe the weakest in the series but at least it tried to be creative compared to ds3 where it just goes back to ds1's style of gameplay (Without the jank and broken poise system) so is just ds1 but polished.
For the infinite summons, how about tying any summon that occurs after an invasion directly to one of the host's estus? Making it cost 1 or 2 estus per extra summon might cut down on that thinking.
Such irony that people cried about DS2 being a bad game and cried for their savior - Miyazaki to save the franchise. Look at what Miyazaki did, its wonderful
Dark Souls 2 PVP was alright, but Dark Souls 2 PVE was easily the weakest and most terrible in the entire series. I have never hated a souls game like I hate Dark Souls 2. That game is a complete failure from a PVE perspective. That said, at least the PVP isn't nearly as bad as DS3s
the only times i have managed to invade a solo player i have gotten the message "host has begun critical battle" before ive even found them. the vast majority of invasions ive done ive found 3 players ganking 1 with estoc or dark sword another with smoughs hammer/BKGA ect and another spamming me with soul spear... its virtualy impossible to fight against if you move in to punish the hard hitting player you get stunned by the estoc then killed by the soul spear and BKGA hitting you together if you go for the estoc user, he runs away and the BKGA guy hits you in the back if you go for the sorcerer the other 2 block your way... usualy with a great shield
Hearing you spell out all the disadvantages an invader has after you listed them all really hit home how ridiculous the balancing is..leaving your souls where you die really is a kick in the nuts after all all that.
I don't really know what's going on, but I have rarely seen watchdogs in crucifixion woods; either when embered or when invading. It's always been Mad or Red phantoms. This is on most of my characters; ranging from level 20 to 189. Is no one doing that covenant anymore?
we actually already have a few times. they fixed dark moon summoning because it was being complained about so much and im pretty sure they took out the halberd stun locks cause of the community too and one of the guys from FSWs team posted on the forums about how they are listening to us and posted tips on how to improve your odds of being summoned as a blue phantom. so this video might actually make some waves
They sure as hell did not fix Darkmoon/Blue Sentinel summoning. They must know it's a problem since they keep adjusting things, but they aren't fixing the actual bug keeping many players from being summond by either of the two covenants.
Ironfruit16 its not fixed all the way but they improved it. i used to never get summoned and now i get summoned at least 5 times a day. i now have my 30+ concord's when i only had 1 or 2 before that specific day
I strongly agree with your opinion! Edit: Has anyone tested the down scaling? because i fined on my low SL chars, ill face people i do almost no dmg to but then it will be fine for another 10 duels but theirs always the one summon and just cant deal the right amount of damage.
You also barely get any souls. In DS1 it made sense to invade throughout the game to level up and stock humanity. There's literally no reason at all to invade during a playthrough in DS3.
High On Summer you mean the covenants that offer useless items? embers that are not even rare in the base game excpet you pop one everytime you die? souls which you could earn by farming the two silver knights in anor londo without having to deal with gank squads and way quicker? for fun? well there actually a video that you just clicked that explains why invading isnt fun.
How are the items useless tell me? You get great lightning spear a great offence miracle, darkmoon blade the best magid damage spell buff in every ds game, darkmoon ring allowing 2 more attunement slots, and the obscuring ring are some really useful pvp items to have.
Actually I don't, I summon at most one friend to co-op a boss, I'm just always embered because I enjoy the extra health and an occasional invader. And I'm not one of those douchebags who summons a million phantoms just to kill one invader, I fight them myself even if I'm losing
I know, but I don't ALWAYS have a summon with me, most of the time I don't because I know how much of a pain fighting multiple people is and I'd rather not contribute to the massive amount of gankers there already is
I will say I have to cut out the area after Pontiff, I can't be embered there, it's invasion after invasion with no time between, but other than that, you're very rarely gonna be invaded, especially if you take ANY precaution to not be invaded, like just not using embers except for bosses and free health regens
Curious date: Soul Memory is actually great for High Soul Level PvP, because it is still allow to f***** invade people, and make fight clubs with a variety of people, and stuff like that
While it isn't great for balance, Soul Memory actually makes it so you can invade WAY more people overall, which I prefer. Much rather have imbalanced fights than none at all.
Playing any form of coop gets you ganked by invaders in Irythll, I've counted 5 Aldrich faithful invasions and 1 regular invasion in a 20 minute 2 man run between pontiff and Londo, so whenever I invade i make sure it's then. Also, does covenant real ayes forces invasions go by level too? Because I've never been summoned as a watchdog and I equip it as soon as I find it
I agree with everything. It is sad, really. I hope that later patches will change the balance of weapons and spells for more build diversity, to add some more fun to duels. I doubt that anything in invasions will change, and it makes me wanna cry. Like you said, even if they got rid of the hosts ability to resume on phantoms while the invader is in the world, it would be much better. Another thing I think can be done is reduce the friendly phantoms' estus even further, say to a quarter of what they have, but only while the invader is alive. I've also been thinking that there can be an alternative to estus for invasions: no one except the host can heal during the invasion, but when an invader kills a phantom his HP gets maxed out similar to when a message is rated. Another reason invasions are terrible is that hey literally don't "work as intended". By that I mean that the purpose of invaders is to balance out the risk/reward system of summoning help. Invaders don't pose any threat to
a group of more than two people, unless the invader is extremely skilled or is invading in an area like Irithyll dungeon. Invaders became basically a source of free souls for PvEers. Nyff has a good video about that concept.
your point of it being boiled down to having a oneshot tactic (bs fishing, parrying) to survive ganks applies even more into elden ring lol. it's just that they made it even easier with WAs being very, very powerful
I think that invader has more hp than -30%, because host has 1.3x hp, so by simple example. When base hp is 1000 points, rising it by 30% gives 1300points=130%. But then if we take it as 100% of 1300, 300 points from it will be less than 30% of base health. I calculated it and by this simple example 30% from 1300 is 390, not 300.
You're right. I worded the proportion wrong. It would be more accurate to say the host has 30% more health, not the invader has 30% less.
8 років тому+1
The math you want to do is: EmberHP = BaseHP * 1.3 BaseHP = EmberHP * (1 / 1.3) 1/1.3 = ~0.77 It means the invader has 77% of his max health when invading, which is a 23% decrease. It's still very significant.
I hate when I swing at a host, see my sword go through them, and here the hitsound but see that no damage was done. And when I ten feet from someone and they still hit me. And don't get me started on when I parry, and I here the sound of the sword and shield or object used to parry collide, but the parry doesn't happen, I'm left open, and 4 gankers slaughter me.
Well, as a player that loves to invade i think i have a couple of tricks for you people *Dont rush it* Unless you see a solo player, try to not go head first into a fight, even if the host/phantoms are really bad, can still win you by attrition, try to engage on them when they attack some mobs to give you an advantadge. *Use the mobs* The position of strong mobs its vital when invading, stay near powerfull mobs, try to lure the host into the agroo range of them so you can have some back up, if the mobs die and you didnt kill anyone, just retreat to another mob. *The stage is your ally* Be smart, you see a ledge? Wait over it, hit them with a plunging attack. Use the natural traps of the stage (Venom swamps, bottomless pits, fire dart traps). *Be patient* Take all the time of the world, most players will get really impatient after just 2 minutes, after 4-5 most will not even remember than you are there and will just clear the stage as usual, attack when they least expect it. *The obscure ring is obligatory* This ring alone will give you an strategic advantadge like no other ring can, the obscure ring makes you invisible to the host/phantoms at more than 7~meters away (just where the lockon stops working), this can allow you to see them and know their position, or to even let them advance you so you can pincer attack them, the utility of the ring is to much to be ignored. *Let it goooooooo* Sometimes, you will just be fucked, if you are out of estus, no phantom has died, the host has barely chugged and most of the strong mobs are out, just use the black cristal to get out of that world. Just to finalize, i put some of the best spots to invade in my opinion. *Farron swamp*: the constant poison will give you the enemy position, the mobs are quite powerfull and usually come in packs. *Carthus Catacombs*: this place is just an invaders wet dream, tons of traps, bottomless pits, agressive mobs. *Anor londo/Aldrith Faithfull zone*: the zone its actually not that good, but it compensates by having constant Aldritch Faithfulls going in, like seriously, its one of the only zones that you can win just by pure numbers.
Y'see, if you don't rush things, you're now fighting a battle of attrition, which you will also lose. The host has twice your estus and you have to deal with 2 or 3 phantoms each with as much estus as you. So it's actually as DamnNoHtml said: your only chance is to one-shot people.
William Miller Yes, but like i said, its not about rushing it, its about knowing when to attack, its better to retire and try to attack them again in another situation where they dont expect you. If you just rush it you are conmdemning yourself, they are gonna win you 3v1, even if they are really really bad.
Z7Games I agree they will destroy you in the 3v1, and I see what you mean about finding a good situation. Sadly, a great deal of the time you don't get a good situation, and if you do find a good situation you really need to make the most of it and kill at least one phantom. Regardless of your method, you need to manage kills ASAP.
William Miller Thats for sure, taking people down its important and must be done at any chance, sadly if they are a group of friends they will just resummon, i gues its *working as intended*.
Z7Games Is this the poise deally? I know a lot of people really want it, but IMO they need to keep hyper armor if heavy weapons ever hope to be useful again.
The direction that this series is headed makes me reluctant to to buy the DLC let alone their next game. For all the mistakes in dark souls 2 the game (for me) was far better when it came to PvP. I got so many kills that felt good, Killing a hacker by golf swinging them into lava, beating up a havel with nothing but a spoon or duel-wielding both smelter swords to create a beautiful blossom of fire and death... Sure I may be seeing things through rose tinted glasses as Dark Souls 2 was my first however when I reached the 200 hour mark in this latest game I found myself to be bored, despite sinking over 1200hrs into the second instalment and 800+ in the first, is this because I have found all the weapons, spells, and armour pieces, killed all the bosses and completed all the side quests despite the comparatively low amount of time I spent in it? In regards to PvP I have yet to find a weapon that clicks with me. From the BKG to a mace the weapons in their class fell much the same, I want my DS2 murakumo back, or the loyce sword. and despite that I think that hyper-armour works just fine... I really do miss poise, it kept me from just charging in there because I knew that one hit from my weapon would sun my opponent, instead of having to seize up how much poise my opponent had and their weapon now all that armour means is that ill just have to hit the basted a few more times. Over all despite being a wonderful game, I feel less inclined to return to it but play other games instead which saddens me greatly.
Think you'll ever do a video about the connection glitches like in the first invasion? People love to claim that whenever an invisible/intangible host/phantom/invader glitch happens that somebody is hacking, and have trouble grasping that it's just something that happens in this game.
I do think DS3 is focused more on shipping units and as a single-player game than as something people will play for years after it's done. DS1 was presumably this way, but the issue is that DS1 was made while FromSoft was still a small fry... probably not even to the level of really being a AA developer. DS3 arrives after multiple successful games, backed by a multimillion dollar advertising budget (which Bamco paid for, obviously), and it's a AAA product. Yet they're still acting like they're still that little company making games for themselves, ignoring the sizable following the games have generated. DS3 isn't a bad game, but I do think the direction they took with it was the wrong one. I don't think single-player experience and multiplayer longevity are necessarily mutually exclusive concepts, yet they seem to believe they are. I strongly believe rolls were made so clearly overpowered because they didn't have time to get a working Poise system in place. They clearly began development based on DS1 Poise and then scrapped it at some point. Maybe it was too hard to get working properly, or maybe it wasn't suiting their design goals. Who knows? They'll obviously never tell. I think the overpowered rolls were a way of compensating for players suddenly being "defenseless" against highly aggressive monsters, which is clearly Bloodborne influenced since even DS1 monsters weren't this aggressive. Fast, cheap rolls also nods towards Bloodborne's very mobile, very aggressive pacing. But I'd play Bloodborne 2 if I wanted more Bloodborne... I pre-ordered DS3 because I expected more Dark Souls :-/ Your closing remarks hit the nail on the head for me. I still have DS3 installed, but I almost never play it anymore. I'd intended to make an SL65 guy to invade in the Irithyll areas with, but I got bored before I even got to SL 40. I've been playing lots of other games, and that saddens me a lot because I fully expected DS3 to be a repeat of DS2, a game that basically consumes every spare second of free time and idle time at work with possibilities, ideas, etc. But it's not. It's why I can't justify people giving it such high ratings. It's still a wonderful single player experience... the first time through. It's enough to justify a 7/10 rating... or maybe even 8/10 if you want to be optimistic, though I'd say $60 is rather high for how short the "campaign" is. DOOM was also $60 and I'm having way more fun with DOOM than I ever had with DS3.
Such a shame that FROM decided to ignore all the changes Ds2 made for the better. I've probably had like 3000+ hours on DS2 within 2 years and DS3 only at ~600-700 since it came out.
So my latest run through the game I've done way of the blue, embered and with dried finger on at all times. I've been invaded quite a few times and I hardly ever died to one or two invaders. It wasn't until I reached the crucifixion woods and Anor Londo that I felt that invasion were fair just because of the shear numbers of invasions. Maybe they will include more area's like that for the dlc.
Wow, that's incredibly discouraging. I've got several hundred hours of DS2 PvP and it was really amazing. In DS3 I haven't really invaded more than a dozen times, but I did notice that almost all of them were with phantoms, and every point you made seemed accurate. As soon as I was done with my playthrough I was planning on making a bunch of PvP builds (mostly cosplays), but I've been questioning the long term survivability of PvP since about half way through the game. I really hope From does something to fix this, but I'm willing to bet they won't.
Old comment but I came back to see how pvp had evolved in the last three years. 4/5/6v1 is the absolute norm. If you get lucky and get a 1v1, they'll throw on Way of the Blue when they start losing and two blues will show up in about ten seconds. If you kill the blues, the host will have made it back to the bonfire to summon at least two, if not three phantoms. I don't mind a challenge but there is absolutely no risk and high reward for the person who gets invaded. They hold every single advantage possible save for mobs, but with how easy seeds are to get, that's not much of an advantage for the invader. I don't think anyone in Dark Souls should ever be rewarded for summoning tons of players and steamrolling everything in sight. That's not what Miyazaki intended at all. Don't bother coming back. It's shit. Even if you use a Red Soapstone, you'll still get ganked consistently. It's the norm.
@@generaldarmith2506 Technically it's a little different now. Now I run into people using cheat engine a lot more. There are a ton of glitches that are commonly used like estus canceling, estus refill, fap ring glitch, the bow glitch. So things have changed, a lot actually, but none of it's good lol I also find it ironic that you reply to this 4 year old comment when just a couple weeks ago some friends convinced me to play again for the first time in a couple years. Let's hope From puts out something with better PvP in the future. I'm hoping for a new Armored Core, but that's probably wishful thinking.
@@ScrollsAdventures when i said it isn't any different than when it was 4 years ago i meant that it is still bad the gankers are still there now there are cheats and bad shits . And how is it ironic that i respond to a 4 year old comment lol people respond to a lot of comments that are made years ago
What do you think of dark souls 3 pvp over all compared to the other games, not just with invades? And do you think there's any chance From will change this?
Thank you for summarizing all those points into a single video. I just hope From Software catches on and can still do something to save the invasion system. I miss Dark Souls 2 invasions as much as you.
I understand that my complaints aren't really valid but you asked for my input so, here it is. It's just always been my opinion that being forced into PvP scenarios is not fun. I rarely ever like PvP, but I LOVE playing the souls series with my friends. It's why I've completed Dark Souls 3 (including going through on my friends worlds) about 15 times now and Bloodborne 25. It's just great mindless fun because (just based on the amount of times we've gone through it) we've gotten really good a it, so now we just go through with crap builds (like dual torches only). However, none of us like PvP. We never have good PvP builds. So then we get invaded, and then that's it. That time through there either turns into a mad dash, or we try to fight and win maybe once every 10 invasions. So, because of this, (since you wanted my opinion) I just don't think there even should be invading, because it detracts from my and my friends experience. Like I said, not really valid complaint, but whatevs.
Please keep one thing in mind, and that's that Dark Souls is meant to punish you until you git gud. Reds are a natural thing in the game. Just because you don't want it, doesn't mean it's not part of the game. Specifically, just because you don't want to fight others, doesn't mean you won't. Let it humble you, because it's humbled us. Consider it a boss fight, or something along those lines. An advantage and completely unfair are different things, and it's too extreme against us.
I get that, but to me, it's just not fun. I look up videos of invading and (with the exception of fun unexpected things) the average PvP match looks so boring, and when I try it, it is again just boring. So, I understand the complaints of others who enjoy PvP, but my personal opinion is that it just lessens the fun for me.
Another negative for invaders is that invaders can hurt each other. I understand blue invaders hurting red invaders (you're in their territory), and purples hurting everything (they're insane), but why do invaders of the same covenant (aside from Mound Makers) hurt eachother? I've been killed more times by other invaders than hosts or cooperators.
I think someone already mentioned this but just to reinforce the point: This also has a knock-on effect of making most of the covenants worthless With odds so much in favor of the host, there's less invaders. With less invaders, the Blue Sentinels and Darkmoons have no-one to rescue (either because the hosts are confident enough to not equip a WotB symbol or nobody is bothering to invade in the first place) When the game first came out, I could get non-stop Farron invasions... Not anymore, since there's nobody in the right zone at the right level range for long enough. Aldritch Faithful has polar results. Either you're ganking some poor guy running through the zone - desperate to avoid the silver knights, or you're fighting a fully equipped, level 100 gank squad with a giant seed. The only option left is red invasions and they are shite for all the reasons you mentioned in the video. There are plenty of easy ways to fix the balance issues; some of which *already existed in DS and DS2*, but I don't trust From to implement them.... Not after the fucking Poise debacle.
What they should have done is left invasions alone, aside from fixing some bugs, and let people figure out about Offline mode, or leave a message about it.
I mean, that does remove the ability to summon people to help you with an area, but people can just git gud, and that would solve the game being to hard problem
If I don't want to be invaded, I just don't ember. It's not like the game is really that much harder if you don't have that minor health boost. Maybe against bosses, it makes sense to maximize your advantages, but normal areas don't require it, IME.
Slider1207 Yes, but if you don't ember, you can't summon people to help you, which would make the game to hard for people, and put other people off, yada yada, from doesn't sell as many copies, so less money is made
The thing that I LOVED about Dark Souls is that I both dueling and invasions were fun for EVERYONE. Whether you wanted to duel, gank, or invade, it was all equally fun. Whenever I got bored with pvping in the Burg, I could always go to the Forest or anywhere else for fun and enjoyable invasions. When I wanted an extra challenge, I would just Gravelord. At least in that game, the odds of an invader winning was nearly equal to the oddss of them losing. But THIS GAME? I've stopped invasions a long time ago. And just standing in the Pontiff area for hours on end eventually gets boring. If I had to rate all the games in the series, I would have to give it to Dark Souls for the PVP (although I dislike the ease at which one could BS) and Bloodborne for the PVE.
I must ask you as someone who has a mild different opinion on what was the best souls game, what would u change about the invasion system in dark souls 3? I am honestly curious.
+jblackmel what? Is ur opinion above me to even ask? Man you have been nothing but a salty sea dog sense dks2. Though what can I say, it's what I get for trying to be nice.
Sadly this game will be good as dead in few months. The biggest issue is that new game plus is the worst from the series. Pvp was fun for me till level 60 because against multiple opponents you can 1 shot people but later this game becomes a drink contest. It's a good game but becomes boring really fast.
At lest there were new item placements. I would argue that this is better than in Dks1, but then again, Ng+ shouldn't be as easy as it is. For some reason, all of my Ng+ playthroughs in Dark Souls 3 have been laughably easy- it seems like the enemy buffs are significantly weaker. (I wasn't overleveled BTW, I usually enter Ng+ around Sl 99). Also, Isn't it ridiculous that they threw out most of the improvements Dark Souls 2 made (like soul level) along with the detriments? It's like From is trying to just shove the entirety of Dks2 under the rug.
I noticed that too. Dark Souls 2 is really underappreciated in my opinion. I mean, things like removing the L3 jump in Bloodborne, or bringing back the dumb inventory UI they had in Dark Souls 1 instead of the vastly improved one in Dark Souls 2 (thankfully they did bring it back for DS3).
Two years down the line with yet another game added to the series and DS3 *still* averages around 2-3 times as many active players as all the other Souls games combined. "Dead" my ass.
@@maxenfelter almost four years post-release and it still averages 2-3x as many active players as the other souls games combined. i literally get invasions instantly whenever i pop the red eye orb in pretty much every single area of the game with the correct sl.
I agree with everything here. The one thing you didnt mention was how its impossible to punish hosts for running to the fog door. as soon as they touch it, they're free. you have to be a really seasoned player to succeed with invasions on dks3 and even then theres a massive element of luck involved.
Oh and also, Dark Souls 1 is still active with a lot of new players; both on pc and ps3. (I don't have a 360 so maybe there to.) So we can all go back to there and be happy with the best game ever made :D
Dark Souls 1 is easily the most broken, worst game in the series. Stop championing this clunky mess of horse fuck. It was good at the time and is a horrible game in hindsight.
I've heard that the seed of the giant's tree only spawns when you lose against an invader, which is kind of like from saying, "Hey, here's something that will help you next time and make the invader's last hope into a slice of hell."
Honestly there are 3 types of successful invaders now 1. Complete the game low level or have a friend give you end game level equipment to twink 2. Use a one shot, or insane combo build to decimate everyone 3. Invade in the area after pontiff and wait for back up invaders to counter gank the gankers I rarely if ever see novelty builds or joke builds, all I see is meta weapons and spam to win like a "pro"
Twinking is literally impossible nowadays btw, you can only invade peeps with a weapon upped as much as yours, and never below. So gear wise the invader isn't gonna have that much of an advantage at low levels.
+Mason Guyman You can twink, simply used a raw infused weapon with high base damage or a powerful non uh raced boss weapon, get all the estus shards and bone marrows to have maximum healing potential and you can outlast the host and any phantoms easily, twink builds are possibly rille about 50-60 range from personal experience of helping my friends out who first pick up the game
+Mason Guyman 27 vig with the stats to meet the weapon you are using and a fire or raw infused +2 weapon hornet ring sun princess ring cloranthy ring and life ring. You should be around level 20-30 which will still let you invade people in the beginning areas. There is your early game twink build. Dark souls 2 got rid of that until the agape ring but even then it's not common to find twinks in dark souls 2.
It makes me sad that I hate invading so much. I love the PvP in this game, dueling is some of the most fun I've had with it. But like the video said, 9/10 invasions are 3v1 ganks with a seed activated. It's just really not fun anymore
i once invaded someone who summoned a total of 7 phantoms (5 of which i killed) through out the invasion and roll spammed whenever i try to attack him; that was one of the most frustrating pvp experience ever in any game ever. I switched to a one shot int build after that. i think the best way to make invasions more enjoyable is to just disable the hosts ability to summon phantoms during invasions. that's not a lot to ask for, right?
Here's my two cents. -Ashen not reduced. -If any phantoms are present the -30% hp is not applied. -If two or more phantoms are already summoned blues and moon will not be summoned. -No summoning while being invaded. -When calculating invasion levels, if the target person to invade is using a password, treat it as if you were invading the highest level phantom. You also get scaled down. -Souls drop where you used the item (does this even need to be said)?
You're forgetting about how mound makers exist, who take up a friendly invader slot and are usually either stupid (they attack reds now knowing their real targets) or treacherous (attack reds hoping they will be rewarded to stay by the host). Really the only way to invade in this game is as a purple because the conditions for victory are so scaled back it's laughable compared to what a red has to do.
+William Miller Yeah man, you can even gank stray whites with reds because reds will never attack you unless it's an accident (their goal is very clear cut). I think the biggest problem is that fromsoft improved interactions on every covenant other than the darkwraiths, who got hit hardest by the nerf mallet. I don't think they accounted for the fact that the host has 0 obligation to protect phantoms and can expend them like ammo (making a purple's job easy af) while phantoms have every necessity to protect the host (making a red's job an absolute nightmare).
Sadly even some reds are complete morons and will just backstab you because they have the attention spam of a child and need to hit someone without giving a shit of who that is.
Dear From. Fuck. This is just my opinion, but I really enjoyed the PvE aspects of Dark Souls 3. They highlighted what was best from the series. But, unfortunitly the PvE is not what is going to make me come back to it, for a long, long time. The best thing that can be done to Dark Souls 3, is to take the PvP from Dark Souls 2, and put it into Dark Souls 3, save for Soul Memory. I personally don't like the weapon level restrictions, but keep those in so long as you fix shit. Putting restrictions on your PvP, the only part of the game the majority of people are going to be playing, is not a good idea. It hurts longevity, and overall fun. There is a reason I have 1500+ hours in both Dark Souls 2 games, but only 200 in Dark Souls 3 before I stopped. There is no incentive to Invade, let alone PvP. Dark Souls 2 had some restrictions on PvP, sure, but there is a reason people are still playing Dark Souls 2: the PvP. Veterans are what create longevity, and if you are trying to make sure your game is being played years into the future, cater to things that make the game worth playing. I'm starting to repeat my self, but let me say this. You made a good game. Dark Souls 3 is by no means a bad game. It's just a good game that is only worth playing for around 20 hours or however long it takes to beat it. Then you can safely put it down, save yourself the stress, and go back to Dark Souls 2, the only game with longevity in the entire series. Figure out why, if I didn't explain it well enough, and transplant the mechanics into Dark Souls 3, Warts and all.
Scott, you killed it here. Everything about invades in this game were meh and not very fun. I enjoyed dark souls 2 so much more. Elden ring, feels similar to this, but the only plus side is that elden ring does have more build diversity. I seriously think elden ring would pop off if they brought back a need to use something similar to humanity and if they almost halved all of the damage for most weapons against other players.
it's funny because that "new player who wants to try invasions because that's what ds is famous for" is probably the same player who fucking ran through the whole game with 2 summons and when he got invaded he spammed the signs to get phantoms back if they died. so.... thank god he gets fucked back.
DLC isn't going to add much longevity to this game. Items, new areas, a short lasting popularity spike, that's all DLC is good for. The only thing you can do with invasions is try to have fun with them. Because if you try hard, you're just going to realize all the shit you put up with and get salty.
I'm glad you made this. I feel the exact same way and it's why I haven't done anything but Red Sign duels in this game since launch week.
Sup Inferno o/
While Invasions suck, at least you are adding something to the Duel-Community by encouraging people to try out new/unusal weapons and sets that may not be the best option, but something fresh. I really love your videos.
DamnNoHtml, in my opinion, is a cancer to the dark souls community because he actively tells people they only should use Meta-Weapons, he ONLY plays reactive because thats the only way he can play obviously which has nothing to do with skill, its just the cheapest way to win, and that he obviously prefers. He even goes so far to encourage people to exploit the lag in this game and walk into attacks, knowing they wont hit him and attack afterwards. I dont know why everyone supports him, he is part of the problem and tells people they also should be part of it.
What do you think?
+Unbelieveableman ;D The real meta is: Stop Crying!!! if the weapon or whatever is in the game, you can use or not 😒
I bet you are the first to criticize someone using an Estoc or Dark Sword.
+Unbelieveableman ;D Nope, I learned the counter with parry's for days. The channel Price the Soon helped me a lot
Also, FromSoft should of considered that if people didn't want to get invaded the player could have just played the game offline.
Umm, there is an option in the menu to "Start dark souls in offline mode"
But is is kind of hidden, why?
Pffft it is FromSoft!
But they also lose the ability to see messages and summon phantoms.
I strongly dislike this argument because people will want to play multiplayer.
+Tim C i like it that it does that.
+Daily C4t yep and that's why embers exist instead.
I feel like DS3 hates me at times.
I invade, 4v1 im fucked.
I get invaded, by 2-3 people simultaneously (Farron/Aldrich after invaders). lolwut.
I'll add that I'm always playing solo, don't use the dried finger bones or whatever it's called.
from pls y u do this :'(
Hah, that reminds me. The Loyal Spirit covenants can summon up to three invaders at a time (four if you have a Finger activated, I think), and I was playing solo, working my way through the Crucifixion Woods, then bam; THREE Watchdogs in a row. Yep. I was fucked. It was fun, though. Loyal Spirits are by far the most fun methods of invading for me, since you don't lose Souls upon death. Not so fun, however, when you GET invaded by them.
Don't worry guys, DS3 is working as intended ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+rabbit7651 I dont know what system you are on (im on pc) but at around soul level 70 or so I would get summoned as a darkmoon blade about 20 seconds after returning from the last host's world.
I think one thing that helped would be that I would hang out near popular invasion spots (Irythyll, Anor Londo, A. Peak etc.)
+rabbit7651 I've always think that the way that From would solve this is by deleting the Way of Blue Covenant and kinda do like in DS2, that you can get a blue eye orb to invade as a justice phantom against someone who invaded or that you can be summoned if the other pkayer has the Blade of the Darkmoon/Blue Sentinels Covenant or final method, as you are equiped with the Way of Blue covenant you can see blue soapstone signs from people who are BS/BotDM and summon them (of course only one per invasion)
I've never popped a dried finger, but I got invaded by 5 aldritch at Pontiff. At first it was one, then i killed him and suddenly there were four people at once.
It's uncanny how all of these critiques are perfeclty transferable to Elden Ring's pvp, which is objectively more stacked against invaders than any other Souls ever. So what happened? Are they intentionally going from bad to worse with each game until pvp expires on its own? All of these issues were never fixed, and yet the game turned out to be super long-lived. So it's a matter of resignation and adjustment all over again, only with worse conditions this time? This video speaks volumes on how pvp has developed and what people should expect from ER's future.
at least spells are viable... still worst than and unbalance to ds2, which is still the best.
Agreed.
TBH, at this rate, I think DS2 is always going to be the best regarding multiplayer, and they might as well not include invasions in future titles.
@@disposablehero1235 if viable means run to them, roll and magicaly avoid 90% of damage then yes are viable xD and more if you think that wizards have less health and even less mana in invations or multiplayer in general
@@sorioc9588 Eh, they're not all like that. Stars of Ruin and Star Shower are some that you actually need to think about how to get away from it. They're also fast enough that they work well as roll catches, or are quick enough that it's hard to react to them.
Everything you said was correct! Invasions definitely suffer from all this stuff and it sucks that none of it will probably every be fixed or modified
how tf does this have 23 likes and no comments til now?????
Papa prod
Found the man himself
100% Agree. FROM dropped the ball here. It really sucks, it does feel like a change solely to pander to a more casual audience and sell copies of the game without much care for its longevity. DS3 did something I thought no game would - It made me appreciate DS2.
GAASPP. *faints*
+Nimeron fühn DON'T FORGET DARK SANTIERS
+Nimeron fühn no SM suck's shut up.
which all got patched(even sm in a way with agape ring) so yes they did care about the end game otherwise there wouldnt have been so many rebalancing patches throughout the games live
Nimeron fühn
it took them 1 year yes but i never said im not gonna give ds3 that time and wait on it to evolve that being said:dear lord your builds in ds2 must suck if you cant sacrifice one ringslot for agape ring to stay at a certain sm tier
look im not even arguing that ds2s system with the matchmaking was perfect but it certainly did one thing right: it matched you with way more players than any other soulsgame. sure there were level differences but if you stayed within the sm tier of 3-5 mill you never met anybody behyond sl 200 and ill be honest i much more enjoy seeing a lot of diffrent builds than this stale quality build garbage system we have right now in ds3
I just don't understand why someone would WANT to go through the entire game with 3 phantoms. You should only summon help if you're having trouble with a specific boss or enemy, and even then 1 phantom is more than enough. WAY too often, people summon 3 phantoms right before going into an area for the FIRST time. I feel like having 3 helpers at all times kinda ruins the point of the game. You can't scour the level looking for items and secrets when you've got phantoms waiting for you to get to the boss, and the atmosphere of some levels is thrown out the window when you've got 3 other people watching your back.
I'm not alone in this belief, right?
+gedodude I just don't see it. To each their own, I guess, but if I want some Co-op fun I play Borderlands or something. Dark Souls, and every Souls game for that mattet, always struck me as a single player game with some nice multiplayer elements. Never as a full-on multiplayer game.
Because fun?
Did my first 2 playthroughs solo, trying to plan a full co-op run with a couple of mates for the third one because playing Golden Axe Souls seems like it could be a lot of fun.
If you've ever seen youtubers like Tomato Gaming, Criken2 and even VaatiVidya co-oping in Dark Souls 3 then you'll get why having friends around to play through the game is one of the best ways to enjoy it. It's a very enjoyable when everyone is a souls fan or you've got that one friend who's never played it before and freaks out at a boss that just totaled everyone else but him lol. Though if you're just summoning 3 random phantoms I guess that could be somewhat fun for some people but otherwise I'd agree with you that it sounds pretty boring.
I completely understand that point. Taking on the archives alone sucked, but it was One of the best experiences in the game. The climb to the top of the building, facing down enemies on the long bridge, and the inevitable boss fight with the princes.
Because they're having fun and thats the end of the story? The fact that you have to justify how you are enjoying the game YOU bought by playing it how you want at the expense of no one else shows how toxic the invasion system is.
After playing Elden ring this video is just depressing to watch. If only we knew how lucky we were...
I just hope they will allow invasions even if the area boss is deafeated. This can be simply done by modifying "dried finger" so when you use it you can get invaded even if you already completed the area.
I see no reason for not allowing this, it will boost and save the online activity.
This needs to happen!
Would be cool for fight clubs too.
Will it though? To me that just seems like a duel. If you dried finger, to get invaded, but can't summon phantoms and have the world against you...what does that accomplish? Sure it probably will make invasions slightly more active, but for the person wanting to get invaded, why do it? And for the invader, you will still have half flask AND -30% hp, because you invaded. Forgive me if I'm not seeing the point of it as I haven't played ds2 or know the reasonings of why that would "save online activity"
PWARGaming It will actually solve the invasion issue. It's obnoxious to see that you have to wait 5minutes sometimes just to find a player to invade, even if you're right in the meta SL and there are like 20thousand people online.
Dried finger is made for the sole purpose to get invaded. But it becomes completely useless once you've already completed an area.
Plus the fact that you can't invade players that already completed the area restrics too much the pool, and if it's already slow right now that the game is relatively new, just imagine waitinng 20minutes to invade someone.. which will happen in a few months if this doesn't get solved.
Using dried finger is a player choice, and if I want to get invaded I know the consequencies. Plus it won't change anything for the invaders as if a player completed or not the area, it's just the same for the one invading. But this will definitely boost (a lot!) the online activity.
Best Regards.
As someone from the future who is replaying DS3 I can safely say it really doesn't matter. Like honestly that's the take away people got from this? Can't invade players in areas they have already beaten? Once I grab all items in an area I'm NEVER coming back to the area. Plain and simple. Or do you really expect people to actually love PVP in Dark Souls so much they're just going to loiter in an empty area as they wait to invade? Out of the entire series I never would've thought PVP would be so vital to Dark Souls lifespan...and it isn't. Plenty of people still play Dark Souls 3 because ultimately it is a single player experience. PVP was trash and will always be trash because it was never a primary focus to begin with. It's literally a tacked on feature. They were going to ship DS with no multiplayer! But because of gaming trends they shoved it in anyways. Pretty annoying too since a lot of weapons/spells get changed due to the pvp environment and ruins pve aspects. Honestly anyone who likes Dark Souls Pvp must have very low standards.
Thank u for putting that info out there I feel like nobody is talking about this.
True. . .
Out of context
Mhahahahah!
People talk about it, but then get yelled at for insinuating that Miyazaki-sama's product isn't completely perfect and then dismiss it out of hand rather than listen to it.
Not that it matters. I don't think FromSoft has shown to be a company that listens to or seems to give two hoots about what their player base thinks. That's both good and bad.
+David Carper it is a Japanese game before any other country.
+David Carper There's a lot of bias. The things that drew us all to the series are things prevalent in Miyazaki's games, so we'll always be grateful for that, but really the PvP element has been a secondary concern for him. For better and for worse. I loved the single player in Dark Souls 3, I played through the game repeatedly, but I don't see myself putting in as much time as I did with DS2, a game I was still playing up until the release of DS3. In fact I haven't really played DS3 much in the last week. There's just not much variety, both in terms of viable builds and because of a lot of the invasion mechanics.
Bloody Kojak It is, but the outside-of-Japan demographic is quite a lot larger than the Japanese demographic now, so it'd be very silly to ignore the wants of the many in favor of focusing on the few.
literally couldnt agree more, like holy shit
in regards to the build diversity thing as well id like to see a video on that, we had loads of videos for ds2 and there was some we didnt have time to make before ds3 and yet we struggle for ideas in ds3 because nothing is remotely viable and the lack of poise and roll threshholds make everything feel the same anyway
Dark Souls 3 Builds:
The 40/40 quality.
The Oroboro combo.
There's also the 40/40/30 quality luck build with slightly less endurance that has nearly 500 AR + good bleed with the Carthus Curved Sword.
+NoHomeLike 192.168.8.1 Sorry but quality + hollow can hit over 690 AR XD
holy shit and it's not split damage...
+Kirokill not too much, hollow op builds works good only if you play smart
NoHomeLike 192.168.8.1 Not even that, like, 40/40/40 if you give up a few points of health and endurance. ~1,000 point ripostes with hornet ring.
If you had played other Souls titles before DS3, you would notice the saddest thing that changed now : noob gankers who would cry about being invaded were something like silent minority. In DS3 they've become vocal majority.
#MakeDarkSoulsGreatAgain Build a wall and make Darkwraiths pay for it!
Indeed.
hahaha... NoHome that's so great
It is because the series got so popular, there was a HUGE wave of new players, and that became the majority this time around.
Not to say 'It use to be better back in my day!' but; Dark Souls use to be a real tight nit group of people, and as it grew more popular, it became less and less more entertaining for the veterans, and more newbie-friendly.
When you get invaded it should be "Oh shit someone invade me!"
In Dark Souls 3 it's more like "Lol another invader is coming."
Invaders are now pathetic phantom that are laughable at.
Exactly my thoughts.
@JakubPlatypus cringe and blue-pilled. My favorites are the 1+3 co-op memers who then throw on way of the blue so it becomes a 1v6. I thought about switching from invasions to just red soaping which I always thought was the universal "Hey, let's have a 1v1 duel" but nope, I get summoned into gank squad + WotB and hit staggered left, right, and center. DS3 was purposefully designed to strongly, strongly, strongly, strongly discourage invasions. I think a lot of pvp memes from Scholar of the First Sin were the result of that. Backstepping was really fucking powerful in Scholar, attack canceling would jebait PVE co-opers 100% of the time. Every build is full Havel's + mutliple UGS + Sorc/Faith/Pyro.
Dark Souls 3 was designed to discourage invasions, and reward people who struggle with the game. Feelsrealbadman. The worst thing is, if I get lucky and find someone to 1v1, as soon as I start winning, they sprint off and throw on WotB and within ten seconds two blues will spawn. WotB shouldn't work if you aren't wearing it when you get invaded in my opinion, or if you have phantoms summoned. Being able to effortlessly steamroll 6v1 seems so counter to typical Souls' gameplay. Typically now I just BC out. Probably doesn't help that I play off-meta weapons, but it's just 1000x more fun for me to try to play with the Greatlance than katana or UGS memes.
This comment aged like milk
As unrealistic as the twinblades were in ds2, I'm kinda sad to see them go.
I pray for their return in the DLCs.
ah but now we have Twin-blades
Can't wait for the paired estocs... Those will be fun to fight against.
I really want the Ice Rapier to be back as a dual weapon
Lavos YT *PTSD triggers
Speaking of estocs, anyone else notice that nearly every straight sword the blacksmith has made is an estoc? All over his table behind him are estocs and even the sword he's currently forging is an estoc. Coincidence?
DaS3 is my first Souls game. I never once had to summon a phantom for any boss, minus a few NPCs, since y'know, certain questlines and, forget any area. The fact these people summon Phantoms, Finger up, and then do nothing but gank once invaded, then proceed to TAUNT over my corpse, as if they're any good at the game makes my blood boil. I'm shit at parrying other players -- latency's too much of a bitch for that to happen, so I stand virtually no chance against ganks unless they're really bad or I somehow pull through. Sigh, I wish I was involved in this community during its prime with DaS1. People undermine the true, yet fair, challenge of the game. NK was one of the best boss battles I had ever experienced, yet people summon 3 other Phantoms to make it trivial. Sad.
I'm actually seething with rage because of how accurate you are right now
*certain questlines and gestures. That got deleted for some reason :/ Anyway yeah, it is very, very infuriating.
+zdechlaczek521 Yeah, I could always do that, but one part of DaS that makes it for me is the lore, and the brilliant execution of bosses and such. DaS2's PvP seems so much more fun, but the bosses and originality just... seem to lack so much? There do seem to be good bosses here and there, such as the Old Ivory King, but everything else seems so bland and generic. The Old Iron King is basically any stereotypical Demon-ish creature, and I'm certain the poor design choices alone would make me feel like I'm playing some sorta ripoff. Considering picking up Bloodborne, though. Much faster paced, great boss design, and okay-ish PvP, from what I could tell.
True, Dark Souls 2 was the odd one out, however, I personally believe it suffers from that. Dark Souls 2 is my least played dark souls since I started playing 2 years ago. Why? Because the PvE feels like a chore with no memorable bosses outside of the dlc. The dlc had amazing PvE but the main game aka where 30+ of the bosses are is really boring. Dark Souls 3 may not be the most original by any means, but at least the bosses are more complex than in dark souls and dark souls 2. That's only my opinion though.
+Lucipurr_0 all the dlc is better together than the main game content.
I spent about 10 minutes thinking about how to counteract stupid shit like this, and here are my ideas:
1) If an invader invades a host with allies/phantoms, the invader is placed at full health with all of his Estus (or 20% less, idk)
2) If an invader kills a host's phantom, the host can't summon the same phantom for (maybe) 2 minutes (a timer will be placed on the ally's summon sign to signify when he can be summoned again)
3) Blue Sentinels/Darkmoons won't spawn in if the host already has 2+ phantoms.
4) Invasions can still happen after the boss is killed, but only if the host uses a dried finger. (I'm not exactly sure how it worked in Dark Souls 2, as I haven't played that game in years.) that way, people that want to be invaded can be invaded.
Thoughts? It pisses me off because I only spent 10 minutes thinking about this, and I've already created a more balanced system than the one FromSoft has implemented.
Holy shit that seems more balanced than anything FROM has made for PVP
so send that to Fromsh*tware :P
+Emi Ly I'm actually making a video on it right now, haha
great :P i hope From will notice and fix pvp in dks3 so invading would be not a turture anymore :)
3) Blue Sentinels/Darkmoons won't spawn in if the host already has 2+ phantoms. We need them to fix these covenants, not make them infinitely worse.
Hello. I 100% agree with you.
This game is catered towards casuls.
Hello
Considering how much easier invading people is in that game, no it isn't.
In DS2 you could actually have some fun invading ppl.
-Invasions occurred whether hollow or not.
-incremental penalization towards health per death
-Only (1) starter Estus in NG.
-R1 spam less viable due to some amount of poise existing.
While yes, in DS2 you can run into the occasional 5v1 match-up, in DS3 that's an every other invasion kind of thing.
More like you are a shit invader
I feel like we should all tweet this to miyazaki.
pretty sure he doesnt have his own twitter.
Yui Tanimura is the codirector pretty sure in charge of PvP as well, email this to him.
As if Miyazaki gives a fuck. He himself stated, he doesn't understand the appeal of invading in a interview.
Miyazaki is a PvE casual. I knew it.
no, he just understands what most other game developers don't, that gamers still want single player games.
Don't forget that even if you manage to survive long enough for some Red backup, your phantom opponents can spam UGS R1's all day without worrying about killing their teammates. Not you.
Dark souls 2 was the most fun souls game. (to me that is)
The road ahead is a treacherous one my friend... I see your future and it is bleak. Just stay strong and keep a level head. You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take from you!
*****
Opinions, not facts.
for me the pvp was a lot better.
To me it's like this
DS 1 : best PvE
DS 2 : best PvP
DS 3 : best graphics
+Mike the Man Your comment was a complete waste of time, please delete it. Saying someone has 'A shitty opinion' just shows that you have no actual argument.
If you renamed the title to Elden Ring, 90% of your points still stand.
Two things. Deliberate gankers and the seeds.
One, the Seed of a Giant tree lasts effectively forever. Rarity is a shitty way to balance the seed, though, because people can farm it, revert to a prior save to get it back, or just plain old hack them in and never get caught because there's no way to prove that they didn't farm it from your perspective. A seed should only last thirty to sixty seconds, maybe even two minutes - enough time to flush a passive invader out of hiding, but not so long that the invader loses their sole advantage. The thirty seconds to two minutes is time the host will need to clear through those enemy mobs (forcing them to progress) or else the invader will simply go back to hiding among the enemies. A host can have up to five seeds - that's enough to eventually chip their way to the fog gate if an invader decides they're only going to hide among the most difficult enemies.
Two, intentional gankers have far too many tools when the game should be actively hindering their efforts. If a ganker wants to gank, they summon two friends and they can gank away. They get prioritized, but they don't risk being outnumbered. Even if they use a dried finger, you're unlikely to get enough allies to stand a chance against the gank squad.
Worlds with phantoms should no longer be prioritized. Instead, the Blue Sentinels and Darkmoon Blades are given an overhaul. All nonsinners are subject to the protection of the Darkmoon Blades and the Blue Sentinels by default, and players must instead opt out of this protection by talking to an NPC such as the Velka statue (nonsinners can opt back into protection). Sinners can equip the Way of Blue to still receive protection from the Blue Sentinels, Darkmoons however will only protect nonsinners. This allows all new players, regardless of how ignorant they are of the games' systems, to receive protection from other players from invaders - an emphasis should be given on making sure blues are summoned quickly, preferably at the same time as the red enters the world, and by the host's side. This also plays into the fantasy of those joining the blue covenants, as they're far more likely to be actually protecting a player in need rather than being shanghaied into a gank squad. Players that wish to exclusively protect sinless players can now make that a deliberate choice by choosing to become a Darkmoon instead of a Blue Sentinel, differentiating the covenants in flavor without altering either factions' ethos.
If you have friendly phantoms, you simply should not be allowed to summon dark spirits, and if you have RSS dark spirits you should not be able to summon friendly phantoms. Dark spirits cannot be summoned into a seeded world. This is straightforward, if you summon an RSS dark spirit you are summoning them to duel, no one should ever be summoned into a gank. Sure, gankers could still summon red phantom buddies to attempt to gank, but this is far more incovenient for the gankers as now they have to deal with friendly fire in addition to the risk of being invaded, they lose advantages.
The Dried Finger should not be used to summon additional phantoms, and in fact it should only be usable if you have no friendly phantoms present and it locks you out of further summons. The Dried Finger is for those that wish to be invaded and them alone, gankers should not be able to use the Dried Finger to gank. To summon a third friendly phantom, you must instead burn two embers in addition to being embered yourself.
These suggestions make intentionally setting up a gank harder without too severely impacting the experience of players who are only interested in PvE. Blues are more likely to get to play the hero, which win or lose is still an incredibly cool experience for the host and a wonderful introduction to PvP. Seeds, even if hacked, are no longer OP but still keep invaders from just camping jailers and bringing invasions to a standstill. Duelists no longer have to worry about being summoned into three people R1 spamming their spawn. And no one has to see the same fucking ganker over and over again every invasion because they've got a Dried Finger popped. For most honest players, there's no change, they're not punished for using phantoms or any more likely to die to an invader. But for those that intentionally gum up a flawed matchmaking system with bad fights, it becomes far too time-consuming to be worthwhile. It's hard enough to get three people to play a game together, it's nearly impossible to get them to stand around doing nothing for 20 minutes at a time for 2 minutes worth of trolling.
Oh, and everyone should be able to invaded even if the boss is dead. That we're seriously considering the Smouldering Lake just because the boss there is optional is incredibly stupid, we should be able to pick any spot in the game and have fun with our fight clubs and invasions. Just don't let people summon friendly phantoms in areas where the boss is dead so sunbros don't get blueballed.
EVERY SINGLE BOSS ARENA is worthy of being a PvP hotspot, but after fucking 5 GAMES and a DECADES worth of experience, they can't seem to get it into their heads that players LIKE fighting other players, and might ENJOY fighting in these large spacious flat arenas.
I agree with most of the suggestions, but IMO when you summon RSS with a password, you should be able to summon white phantoms, it allows for some pretty creative games.
Oh... and let's not talk about how the whole stunlock mechanic favors gankers...
I'm sorry, but how exactly does the AGAPE RING in DaS2 help to twink? If a noob has been super careful about not losing souls, and has put every soul earned into stats and the exact equipment being used in their build, then how much of a disadvantage could they be at? I would venture the answer is that a Twink could farm for upgrade material and have some +10 equipment. But even then, if the noob is careful, they might have less upgrade material invested into equipment, but they would have the stats to survive. There is no way around spending souls to upgrade gear. So every piece upgraded are points not used in stats. If the twink wants to have a ton of OP weapons at their disposal, they will have to give up stats to do it. And that's the rub. The careful noob put all their souls into stats and a few main weapons. The twink put their souls into stats and maxed a few weapons. In the end, in this scenario, the noob isn't at a huge disadvantage. The might not have +10 equipment, maybe +6 or whatever, but the gap isn't huge.
One of my fav DaS1 invasion videos is called "Slow walk invasions with the Rotten Horror". This twink build had a bunch of maxed out weaponry, but for fun, he cast Iron Flesh so that he would slow walk. Having let a head parasite infect and transform his head into a maggot face, and wearing the Stone Armor, he looked like a very intimidating figure slow walking around. His personal viewpoint was that he enjoyed giving new players a tough, but fair PvP experience. He was literally like a mini-boss for noobs. But it was a fun way to twink. In DaS2, all of the amazing equipment he used would have ultimately put him at a disadvantage, since the souls invested into equipment sitting in inventory wouldn't be helping him battle. Whereas the careful noob has all of their souls active in their stats and the few pieces of equipment used. In DaS1, there was no penalty to farming everything you wanted to max level. You could max everything. But that will only get you killed in DaS2.
So, what if anything, am I missing about twinking in Das2? There may be some good reasons behind why you say "so From made the Agape ring, and said "fuck it"". But the Agape only helps you to pinpoint the tiers at which you want to invade at, and helps to keep you there. Once you equip it, any upgrades to your build will necessarily involve moving ever higher up the SM brackets. The only way that twinking in DaS2 could replicate the DaS1 experience is if the noob player loses a bunch of souls by not retrieving their bloodstain, or spreading souls thinly among a bunch of weak gear. But then the real gap will be felt in player skill, not in smashing face because of simply better gear, even if that is a factor.
I get that Soul Memory wasn't perfect. But even after 4 soulsbourne titles, Miyazaki couldn't get invasions right in DaS3. In the end, perhaps this is more subjective than objective, DaS2 was a better designed multiplayer experience for keeping the game going over the long term. Twink builds are kept in check, with or without the Agape ring. And invasions can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere.
Long live Dark Souls 2!
*lack of build diversity
Maybe that's because...
Nah, as From said
Poise is working as intended.
They also ripped the horrible scaling system from Bloodborne which invalidates any potential magic damage that you should be able to do with your weapons. DS2 used a BNS system, where scaling was determined by taking a % (letter value) of the BNS value that was determined by your stats, rings, etc. DS3's system takes your stat, multiplies it by the % letter, then multiplies it by the base damage of the weapon. This means you need to have a large existing AR in order to get good scaling, and that doesn't exist on any of the magic weapons nor can you get it via infusions. Also, the fact they added the refined infusion means that every weapon is used better with a quality build.
Because that totally wouldn't kill diversity entirely and wouldn't make the only builds you see katanas or strength weapons.
Steven Schmitz Quality builds, really. Most of what I see are 40/40 builds, not necessarily strength builds and weapons.
Well, i haven't been on my ricard's guy since the rapier debuff, but I can currently hit people between their 2hr1 swings and dodge roll away.
This game has just set up the most meta based pvp in Souls history. Yeah I mean it was bad in previous games like with Giantdad or full Havels, but you'd see them every now and then. This game? I hope you enjoy seeing that twin sellsword darkmoon blade, or the dark sword.
I guess all Im saying is just watch the latest Oroboro video if you want to see the new meta.
lol the twinswords are getting nerfed next patch, the patch gets released friday i think :)
it has always been that way, just this one is far more popular so its more noticeable
I have literally never seen darkmoon sellsword. I see Dark Swords maybe 5% of the time. You have some serious rose tinted goggles on if you don't remember the meta of DS2 and how prevalent it was.
What's that sound? Could it be a 1000-damage, quick-cast Resonant Soul with a fucking chaos blade? Maybe it was just my imagination.
You don't miss the Santiers spear and avelyn meta?
Totally agree, I've found myself barely invading either. Connectivity issues haven't been too big a deal for me, I remember having a lot more problems with DS2, but the odds of winning 3 or 4v1 fights without a strength weapon and hornet ring is obscene.
Also, perfect example of what you said, I've got a clip invading a host in Undead Settlement with 3 phantoms - a full Gundyr, an Artorias with Gotthards and a dude with Smoughs hammer, and I had a deep battle axe. Dat balance. Still won though!
Fight Clubs are the only safe haven for pvp in this game. More than anything I wish Darkmoon invasions weren't limited to the few hosts who are way of blue.
Oh you poor souls, just wait until elden ring comes around. The invasions will die 3 months after release, you can only invade players that are using dried tongue, there’s a 4 player limit, an invasion timer of 2 minutes before you reach an error connection, password summon scaling is broken, and you can only invade 3% of your level down, but 50% of your level up. Also, solo invasions are gone, so you can only invade ganks or people who will enter a boss fog as soon as you enter their world.
Fromsoft has doubled down on killing invasions to appeal to a wider audience
I completely agree. I was very excited to have an active online community in a new Dark Souls game so that I could invade and have a good time without having to be optimized or "meta." Unfortunately it turned out to be almost impossible to win at invasions in this game without having some kind of ridiculous optimized oneshot build. 90% of invasions aren't even fun enough to justify trying again. I pretty much stick to duels now but I really wish I could just invade from time to time to shake it up a little like I did in dks2.
>implying fromsoft care once they've sold the game to you.
You'll just have to wait until they re-release it at full price.
Scholar wasn't a full price release???
It was released at 40 rather than the full 60, which was actually a good deal. Not only did you get an overhauled version of the game, all the DLCs, but it also allowed more available players which was fantastic for fight clubs.
So I had no complaints buying that version of the game.
B team did pvp better.
and B team made a better ng +
damn son
My first time getting invaded two people showed up. I don't even ember anymore honestly. I'm not into the laggy combat of pvp.
You're making it sound like invasions are supposed to be fair. They aren't, for either side and they're not supposed to be. Invasions are more of a challenge mode than anything else. If you want to fight "fair" then you use the red sign.
Thank for for voicing literally everything I've been thinking to myself about invasions in ds3. Invasions have always been the major part of my game. I love invading with a passion. So imagine my dismay when I finally get to the meta SL and I can't find any regular non-3v1 invasions at any place in the game. It honestly broke my heart because I was so excited for the game and FromSoft essentially said "Well fuck you and your fun" I agree with your statement about he longevity of the game. I honestly believe because of what they've done not even dedicated souls players will be sticking around very long. It's already happening. So sad.
Unfortunately, more than once have I looked at my DS2 copy...beckoning me to play it again.
+Aether Veilborne same....
as sad as i feel saying it, fact is that DS3 went down from around 110 000 players active on steam to 3 000. five freaking months after release. DS1 has 1600 and it's five *years* old. that just about sums up the state of the pvp i think.
have you ever tried invading at Archdeacon Peak 2nd bonfire? it's right after a boss, so more players are embedded and the number of phantoms summoned there tends to be lower than average. Enemies are pretty beefy straight out of the gate, and the bonfire area is also an absolute deathtrap so you can't camp and repeatedly summon phantoms. It's been my favorite spot for a while.
Aldrich Faithfuls is actually really active
you keep your souls when you die
you cant hit other faithfuls cause you are on the same team
and the level isnt too big so its easy to find the host
until they fix, if they fix, the main invasion system
i would join AFs to get the best invasions you can :)
Yeah I switched over from Sentinels/Darkmoon to AF. It's literally the only thing that works for me right now. Might get into the soggy bottom boys covenant later, but not really interested in those areas.
TheClonazepam i assume you mean puppy boys of fred? yeah i dont like how flat and open that area can be
***** well, no offense but hes not real.
also, im in AF for the chaotic fun pvp.
i dont care for any covenants rewards.
to each their own.
***** yeah this type of thing happens to everyone. as a faithful, ive been betrayed more times than i can count by reds and purps. its just how things are.
Watching this video 3 months after Elden Ring, it honestly sparks hope for me since I can see that ds3 was just as complained about as ER yet it still managed to prevail
And you've not even analyzed the combat metagame.. which is better than dark souls 1, but that's it, dark souls 1 polished. At DS2 actions took time to start/recover, empty stamina bar was a real warning, you could make standard moves faster after roll/run attacks, backsteps, left hand mechanics, weapon tracking different on every weapon class/attack move.
Poise was decent, so many playstyles..
Meh, it just ignored everything that ds2 did great.
Is a shame how each sequel of the souls series seems to leave out the good parts like from DS2 to DS3 why can't you be invaded after a boss was killed?! I loved that feature from DS2 and made the game feel that much more alive.
Say what you will about DS2 I still think is maybe the weakest in the series but at least it tried to be creative compared to ds3 where it just goes back to ds1's style of gameplay (Without the jank and broken poise system) so is just ds1 but polished.
For the infinite summons, how about tying any summon that occurs after an invasion directly to one of the host's estus? Making it cost 1 or 2 estus per extra summon might cut down on that thinking.
I really do think Dks2 was the best one
Such irony that people cried about DS2 being a bad game and cried for their savior - Miyazaki to save the franchise. Look at what Miyazaki did, its wonderful
i agree, DkS2 best of the serie
btw: i agree with Scott as well, thx for the video, gj :)
Dark souls 2 had the best pvp mechanics by far.
ahahaha that was funny... cool joke.
DS2 just a shitty copy of mighty Dark/Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 3 is far better than a cheap copy.
Dark Souls 2 PVP was alright, but Dark Souls 2 PVE was easily the weakest and most terrible in the entire series. I have never hated a souls game like I hate Dark Souls 2. That game is a complete failure from a PVE perspective.
That said, at least the PVP isn't nearly as bad as DS3s
the only times i have managed to invade a solo player i have gotten the message "host has begun critical battle" before ive even found them. the vast majority of invasions ive done ive found 3 players ganking 1 with estoc or dark sword another with smoughs hammer/BKGA ect and another spamming me with soul spear... its virtualy impossible to fight against
if you move in to punish the hard hitting player you get stunned by the estoc then killed by the soul spear and BKGA hitting you together
if you go for the estoc user, he runs away and the BKGA guy hits you in the back
if you go for the sorcerer the other 2 block your way... usualy with a great shield
Hearing you spell out all the disadvantages an invader has after you listed them all really hit home how ridiculous the balancing is..leaving your souls where you die really is a kick in the nuts after all all that.
I don't really know what's going on, but I have rarely seen watchdogs in crucifixion woods; either when embered or when invading. It's always been Mad or Red phantoms. This is on most of my characters; ranging from level 20 to 189. Is no one doing that covenant anymore?
Is there anything we can do to get From's attention though...
we actually already have a few times.
they fixed dark moon summoning because it was being complained about so much
and im pretty sure they took out the halberd stun locks cause of the community too
and one of the guys from FSWs team posted on the forums about how they are listening to us and posted tips on how to improve your odds of being summoned as a blue phantom.
so this video might actually make some waves
+Apexx27 Thanks, I wasn't aware of that :)
They sure as hell did not fix Darkmoon/Blue Sentinel summoning. They must know it's a problem since they keep adjusting things, but they aren't fixing the actual bug keeping many players from being summond by either of the two covenants.
Ironfruit16 its not fixed all the way but they improved it.
i used to never get summoned and now i get summoned at least 5 times a day.
i now have my 30+ concord's when i only had 1 or 2 before that specific day
+Ironfruit16 two? Many like myself never get summoned for any auto summons :/
I strongly agree with your opinion!
Edit: Has anyone tested the down scaling? because i fined on my low SL chars, ill face people i do almost no dmg to but then it will be fine for another 10 duels but theirs always the one summon and just cant deal the right amount of damage.
You also barely get any souls. In DS1 it made sense to invade throughout the game to level up and stock humanity. There's literally no reason at all to invade during a playthrough in DS3.
Covenants, embers, souls, for fun?
High On Summer you mean the covenants that offer useless items? embers that are not even rare in the base game excpet you pop one everytime you die? souls which you could earn by farming the two silver knights in anor londo without having to deal with gank squads and way quicker? for fun? well there actually a video that you just clicked that explains why invading isnt fun.
How are the items useless tell me? You get great lightning spear a great offence miracle, darkmoon blade the best magid damage spell buff in every ds game, darkmoon ring allowing 2 more attunement slots, and the obscuring ring are some really useful pvp items to have.
@@MingusDynastyy Oh yeah but you know that you don't get those items by invading?
@@abrahamrangel2326 I thought you get the covenent items you use to offer to the shrines, along with souls, I forgot you only got humanities in ds1
3 or 4 invasions per playthrough?? What are you smoking mate I get invaded at least that many times in each area
Because you summon 40 phantoms to walk you through the level.
Actually I don't, I summon at most one friend to co-op a boss, I'm just always embered because I enjoy the extra health and an occasional invader. And I'm not one of those douchebags who summons a million phantoms just to kill one invader, I fight them myself even if I'm losing
Well no shit you get invaded more than that then, people with co-op phantoms take priority for getting invaded. I said this in the video.
I know, but I don't ALWAYS have a summon with me, most of the time I don't because I know how much of a pain fighting multiple people is and I'd rather not contribute to the massive amount of gankers there already is
I will say I have to cut out the area after Pontiff, I can't be embered there, it's invasion after invasion with no time between, but other than that, you're very rarely gonna be invaded, especially if you take ANY precaution to not be invaded, like just not using embers except for bosses and free health regens
Curious date: Soul Memory is actually great for High Soul Level PvP, because it is still allow to f***** invade people, and make fight clubs with a variety of people, and stuff like that
While it isn't great for balance, Soul Memory actually makes it so you can invade WAY more people overall, which I prefer. Much rather have imbalanced fights than none at all.
"imbalanced", well, it's Dark Souls 2, we can deal with that kind of imbalanced game
yeah i had a level 400 character and i still invaded regularly and got into the arena as well
Playing any form of coop gets you ganked by invaders in Irythll, I've counted 5 Aldrich faithful invasions and 1 regular invasion in a 20 minute 2 man run between pontiff and Londo, so whenever I invade i make sure it's then.
Also, does covenant real ayes forces invasions go by level too? Because I've never been summoned as a watchdog and I equip it as soon as I find it
I agree with everything. It is sad, really. I hope that later patches will change the balance of weapons and spells for more build diversity, to add some more fun to duels. I doubt that anything in invasions will change, and it makes me wanna cry. Like you said, even if they got rid of the hosts ability to resume on phantoms while the invader is in the world, it would be much better. Another thing I think can be done is reduce the friendly phantoms' estus even further, say to a quarter of what they have, but only while the invader is alive.
I've also been thinking that there can be an alternative to estus for invasions: no one except the host can heal during the invasion, but when an invader kills a phantom his HP gets maxed out similar to when a message is rated.
Another reason invasions are terrible is that hey literally don't "work as intended". By that I mean that the purpose of invaders is to balance out the risk/reward system of summoning help. Invaders don't pose any threat to
a group of more than two people, unless the invader is extremely skilled or is invading in an area like Irithyll dungeon. Invaders became basically a source of free souls for PvEers. Nyff has a good video about that concept.
The biggest issue is how messed up rolling is in das3, what the fuck was that at 3:26
Agree 100%. This game finally pushed me away from Souls games. Bloodborne punished Invaders, Dark Souls 3 absolutely shits on them.
Usually if you get a 2v1 or 3v1, 2 blues just appear out of nowhere
would be cool if we got a flask everytime the summoned a new phantom too
your point of it being boiled down to having a oneshot tactic (bs fishing, parrying) to survive ganks applies even more into elden ring lol. it's just that they made it even easier with WAs being very, very powerful
I think that invader has more hp than -30%, because host has 1.3x hp, so by simple example. When base hp is 1000 points, rising it by 30% gives 1300points=130%. But then if we take it as 100% of 1300, 300 points from it will be less than 30% of base health. I calculated it and by this simple example 30% from 1300 is 390, not 300.
You're right. I worded the proportion wrong. It would be more accurate to say the host has 30% more health, not the invader has 30% less.
The math you want to do is:
EmberHP = BaseHP * 1.3 BaseHP = EmberHP * (1 / 1.3)
1/1.3 = ~0.77
It means the invader has 77% of his max health when invading, which is a 23% decrease.
It's still very significant.
I hate when I swing at a host, see my sword go through them, and here the hitsound but see that no damage was done. And when I ten feet from someone and they still hit me. And don't get me started on when I parry, and I here the sound of the sword and shield or object used to parry collide, but the parry doesn't happen, I'm left open, and 4 gankers slaughter me.
Well, as a player that loves to invade i think i have a couple of tricks for you people
*Dont rush it*
Unless you see a solo player, try to not go head first into a fight, even if the host/phantoms are really bad, can still win you by attrition, try to engage on them when they attack some mobs to give you an advantadge.
*Use the mobs*
The position of strong mobs its vital when invading, stay near powerfull mobs, try to lure the host into the agroo range of them so you can have some back up, if the mobs die and you didnt kill anyone, just retreat to another mob.
*The stage is your ally*
Be smart, you see a ledge? Wait over it, hit them with a plunging attack. Use the natural traps of the stage (Venom swamps, bottomless pits, fire dart traps).
*Be patient*
Take all the time of the world, most players will get really impatient after just 2 minutes, after 4-5 most will not even remember than you are there and will just clear the stage as usual, attack when they least expect it.
*The obscure ring is obligatory*
This ring alone will give you an strategic advantadge like no other ring can, the obscure ring makes you invisible to the host/phantoms at more than 7~meters away (just where the lockon stops working), this can allow you to see them and know their position, or to even let them advance you so you can pincer attack them, the utility of the ring is to much to be ignored.
*Let it goooooooo*
Sometimes, you will just be fucked, if you are out of estus, no phantom has died, the host has barely chugged and most of the strong mobs are out, just use the black cristal to get out of that world.
Just to finalize, i put some of the best spots to invade in my opinion.
*Farron swamp*: the constant poison will give you the enemy position, the mobs are quite powerfull and usually come in packs.
*Carthus Catacombs*: this place is just an invaders wet dream, tons of traps, bottomless pits, agressive mobs.
*Anor londo/Aldrith Faithfull zone*: the zone its actually not that good, but it compensates by having constant Aldritch Faithfulls going in, like seriously, its one of the only zones that you can win just by pure numbers.
Y'see, if you don't rush things, you're now fighting a battle of attrition, which you will also lose. The host has twice your estus and you have to deal with 2 or 3 phantoms each with as much estus as you. So it's actually as DamnNoHtml said: your only chance is to one-shot people.
William Miller Yes, but like i said, its not about rushing it, its about knowing when to attack, its better to retire and try to attack them again in another situation where they dont expect you.
If you just rush it you are conmdemning yourself, they are gonna win you 3v1, even if they are really really bad.
Z7Games I agree they will destroy you in the 3v1, and I see what you mean about finding a good situation. Sadly, a great deal of the time you don't get a good situation, and if you do find a good situation you really need to make the most of it and kill at least one phantom. Regardless of your method, you need to manage kills ASAP.
William Miller
Thats for sure, taking people down its important and must be done at any chance, sadly if they are a group of friends they will just resummon, i gues its *working as intended*.
Z7Games Is this the poise deally? I know a lot of people really want it, but IMO they need to keep hyper armor if heavy weapons ever hope to be useful again.
Hey man I know this video is old but just wanted you to know that I really like your rants. Please keep making them :)
The direction that this series is headed makes me reluctant to to buy the DLC let alone their next game. For all the mistakes in dark souls 2 the game (for me) was far better when it came to PvP. I got so many kills that felt good, Killing a hacker by golf swinging them into lava, beating up a havel with nothing but a spoon or duel-wielding both smelter swords to create a beautiful blossom of fire and death...
Sure I may be seeing things through rose tinted glasses as Dark Souls 2 was my first
however when I reached the 200 hour mark in this latest game I found myself to be bored, despite sinking over 1200hrs into the second instalment and 800+ in the first, is this because I have found all the weapons, spells, and armour pieces,
killed all the bosses and completed all the side quests despite the comparatively low amount of time I spent in it?
In regards to PvP I have yet to find a weapon that clicks with me. From the BKG to a mace the weapons in their class fell much the same, I want my DS2 murakumo back, or the loyce sword. and despite that I think that hyper-armour works just fine...
I really do miss poise, it kept me from just charging in there because I knew that one hit from my weapon would sun my opponent, instead of having to seize up how much poise my opponent had and their weapon now all that armour means is that ill just have to hit the basted a few more times.
Over all despite being a wonderful game, I feel less inclined to return to it but play other games instead which saddens me greatly.
Think you'll ever do a video about the connection glitches like in the first invasion? People love to claim that whenever an invisible/intangible host/phantom/invader glitch happens that somebody is hacking, and have trouble grasping that it's just something that happens in this game.
I do think DS3 is focused more on shipping units and as a single-player game than as something people will play for years after it's done. DS1 was presumably this way, but the issue is that DS1 was made while FromSoft was still a small fry... probably not even to the level of really being a AA developer. DS3 arrives after multiple successful games, backed by a multimillion dollar advertising budget (which Bamco paid for, obviously), and it's a AAA product. Yet they're still acting like they're still that little company making games for themselves, ignoring the sizable following the games have generated. DS3 isn't a bad game, but I do think the direction they took with it was the wrong one. I don't think single-player experience and multiplayer longevity are necessarily mutually exclusive concepts, yet they seem to believe they are.
I strongly believe rolls were made so clearly overpowered because they didn't have time to get a working Poise system in place. They clearly began development based on DS1 Poise and then scrapped it at some point. Maybe it was too hard to get working properly, or maybe it wasn't suiting their design goals. Who knows? They'll obviously never tell. I think the overpowered rolls were a way of compensating for players suddenly being "defenseless" against highly aggressive monsters, which is clearly Bloodborne influenced since even DS1 monsters weren't this aggressive. Fast, cheap rolls also nods towards Bloodborne's very mobile, very aggressive pacing. But I'd play Bloodborne 2 if I wanted more Bloodborne... I pre-ordered DS3 because I expected more Dark Souls :-/
Your closing remarks hit the nail on the head for me. I still have DS3 installed, but I almost never play it anymore. I'd intended to make an SL65 guy to invade in the Irithyll areas with, but I got bored before I even got to SL 40. I've been playing lots of other games, and that saddens me a lot because I fully expected DS3 to be a repeat of DS2, a game that basically consumes every spare second of free time and idle time at work with possibilities, ideas, etc.
But it's not. It's why I can't justify people giving it such high ratings. It's still a wonderful single player experience... the first time through. It's enough to justify a 7/10 rating... or maybe even 8/10 if you want to be optimistic, though I'd say $60 is rather high for how short the "campaign" is. DOOM was also $60 and I'm having way more fun with DOOM than I ever had with DS3.
This comment is 2 years old and I still agree
Such a shame that FROM decided to ignore all the changes Ds2 made for the better. I've probably had like 3000+ hours on DS2 within 2 years and DS3 only at ~600-700 since it came out.
So my latest run through the game I've done way of the blue, embered and with dried finger on at all times. I've been invaded quite a few times and I hardly ever died to one or two invaders. It wasn't until I reached the crucifixion woods and Anor Londo that I felt that invasion were fair just because of the shear numbers of invasions. Maybe they will include more area's like that for the dlc.
Despite having almost no PvP, Bloodborne's PvP was by far more entertaining than DS3's in my opinion.
But how many of these issues can be fixed through patching? Is there any hope that Dks3 will get any better for invaders?
Wow, that's incredibly discouraging. I've got several hundred hours of DS2 PvP and it was really amazing. In DS3 I haven't really invaded more than a dozen times, but I did notice that almost all of them were with phantoms, and every point you made seemed accurate. As soon as I was done with my playthrough I was planning on making a bunch of PvP builds (mostly cosplays), but I've been questioning the long term survivability of PvP since about half way through the game.
I really hope From does something to fix this, but I'm willing to bet they won't.
Old comment but I came back to see how pvp had evolved in the last three years. 4/5/6v1 is the absolute norm. If you get lucky and get a 1v1, they'll throw on Way of the Blue when they start losing and two blues will show up in about ten seconds. If you kill the blues, the host will have made it back to the bonfire to summon at least two, if not three phantoms. I don't mind a challenge but there is absolutely no risk and high reward for the person who gets invaded. They hold every single advantage possible save for mobs, but with how easy seeds are to get, that's not much of an advantage for the invader. I don't think anyone in Dark Souls should ever be rewarded for summoning tons of players and steamrolling everything in sight. That's not what Miyazaki intended at all.
Don't bother coming back. It's shit. Even if you use a Red Soapstone, you'll still get ganked consistently. It's the norm.
well 4 years passed and the pvp isn't any different than then
@@generaldarmith2506 Technically it's a little different now. Now I run into people using cheat engine a lot more. There are a ton of glitches that are commonly used like estus canceling, estus refill, fap ring glitch, the bow glitch. So things have changed, a lot actually, but none of it's good lol
I also find it ironic that you reply to this 4 year old comment when just a couple weeks ago some friends convinced me to play again for the first time in a couple years. Let's hope From puts out something with better PvP in the future. I'm hoping for a new Armored Core, but that's probably wishful thinking.
@@ScrollsAdventures when i said it isn't any different than when it was 4 years ago i meant that it is still bad the gankers are still there now there are cheats and bad shits . And how is it ironic that i respond to a 4 year old comment lol people respond to a lot of comments that are made years ago
What do you think of dark souls 3 pvp over all compared to the other games, not just with invades? And do you think there's any chance From will change this?
I agree, sadly :(
Good points Scott
Scott?
I thought that was his name :o
It is his name.
Damn. No html
His actual name is Scott Jund and he goes by ScottJund on Twitch as well so it's perfectly reasonable for someone to call him Scott or Jund.
Thank you for summarizing all those points into a single video. I just hope From Software catches on and can still do something to save the invasion system. I miss Dark Souls 2 invasions as much as you.
I understand that my complaints aren't really valid but you asked for my input so, here it is. It's just always been my opinion that being forced into PvP scenarios is not fun. I rarely ever like PvP, but I LOVE playing the souls series with my friends. It's why I've completed Dark Souls 3 (including going through on my friends worlds) about 15 times now and Bloodborne 25. It's just great mindless fun because (just based on the amount of times we've gone through it) we've gotten really good a it, so now we just go through with crap builds (like dual torches only). However, none of us like PvP. We never have good PvP builds. So then we get invaded, and then that's it. That time through there either turns into a mad dash, or we try to fight and win maybe once every 10 invasions. So, because of this, (since you wanted my opinion) I just don't think there even should be invading, because it detracts from my and my friends experience. Like I said, not really valid complaint, but whatevs.
Please keep one thing in mind, and that's that Dark Souls is meant to punish you until you git gud. Reds are a natural thing in the game. Just because you don't want it, doesn't mean it's not part of the game. Specifically, just because you don't want to fight others, doesn't mean you won't. Let it humble you, because it's humbled us. Consider it a boss fight, or something along those lines. An advantage and completely unfair are different things, and it's too extreme against us.
I get that, but to me, it's just not fun. I look up videos of invading and (with the exception of fun unexpected things) the average PvP match looks so boring, and when I try it, it is again just boring. So, I understand the complaints of others who enjoy PvP, but my personal opinion is that it just lessens the fun for me.
Another negative for invaders is that invaders can hurt each other. I understand blue invaders hurting red invaders (you're in their territory), and purples hurting everything (they're insane), but why do invaders of the same covenant (aside from Mound Makers) hurt eachother? I've been killed more times by other invaders than hosts or cooperators.
I think someone already mentioned this but just to reinforce the point: This also has a knock-on effect of making most of the covenants worthless
With odds so much in favor of the host, there's less invaders. With less invaders, the Blue Sentinels and Darkmoons have no-one to rescue (either because the hosts are confident enough to not equip a WotB symbol or nobody is bothering to invade in the first place)
When the game first came out, I could get non-stop Farron invasions... Not anymore, since there's nobody in the right zone at the right level range for long enough.
Aldritch Faithful has polar results. Either you're ganking some poor guy running through the zone - desperate to avoid the silver knights, or you're fighting a fully equipped, level 100 gank squad with a giant seed. The only option left is red invasions and they are shite for all the reasons you mentioned in the video.
There are plenty of easy ways to fix the balance issues; some of which *already existed in DS and DS2*, but I don't trust From to implement them.... Not after the fucking Poise debacle.
Still waiting for when you'll start talking about the PVP in DS3. A great critique on the implementation of Invasions though.
What they should have done is left invasions alone, aside from fixing some bugs, and let people figure out about Offline mode, or leave a message about it.
I mean, that does remove the ability to summon people to help you with an area, but people can just git gud, and that would solve the game being to hard problem
If I don't want to be invaded, I just don't ember. It's not like the game is really that much harder if you don't have that minor health boost. Maybe against bosses, it makes sense to maximize your advantages, but normal areas don't require it, IME.
Slider1207 Yes, but if you don't ember, you can't summon people to help you, which would make the game to hard for people, and put other people off, yada yada, from doesn't sell as many copies, so less money is made
You can invade with higher wep/soul level within a certain range
I stopped playing DKS3 a long time ago for these very reasons.
You can always leave the world you've invaded if there are too many phantoms.
Yea of course, that's funny and absolutely not a waste of time
@@finmat95
More fun than getting ganked.
@@benireges ChaseTheBro is having fun with gankers
@@finmat95
This guy in the video is not. That's why I proposed to leave the world of his gankers instead of blaming the game.
This video still applies to invasions in 2019 Ds3
It still does
The thing that I LOVED about Dark Souls is that I both dueling and invasions were fun for EVERYONE. Whether you wanted to duel, gank, or invade, it was all equally fun. Whenever I got bored with pvping in the Burg, I could always go to the Forest or anywhere else for fun and enjoyable invasions. When I wanted an extra challenge, I would just Gravelord. At least in that game, the odds of an invader winning was nearly equal to the oddss of them losing. But THIS GAME? I've stopped invasions a long time ago. And just standing in the Pontiff area for hours on end eventually gets boring. If I had to rate all the games in the series, I would have to give it to Dark Souls for the PVP (although I dislike the ease at which one could BS) and Bloodborne for the PVE.
I must ask you as someone who has a mild different opinion on what was the best souls game, what would u change about the invasion system in dark souls 3?
I am honestly curious.
Shourockow Did you not just listen to the uploader articulate the long list of obstacles that exist for invaders? What more would I have to say?
+jblackmel I did listen, I want to know what would you change, it's a question?
+jblackmel what? Is ur opinion above me to even ask? Man you have been nothing but a salty sea dog sense dks2.
Though what can I say, it's what I get for trying to be nice.
Shourockow Hmmm....I've been salty since March 2014? That's an interesting observation.
Sadly this game will be good as dead in few months. The biggest issue is that new game plus is the worst from the series. Pvp was fun for me till level 60 because against multiple opponents you can 1 shot people but later this game becomes a drink contest. It's a good game but becomes boring really fast.
At lest there were new item placements. I would argue that this is better than in Dks1, but then again, Ng+ shouldn't be as easy as it is. For some reason, all of my Ng+ playthroughs in Dark Souls 3 have been laughably easy- it seems like the enemy buffs are significantly weaker. (I wasn't overleveled BTW, I usually enter Ng+ around Sl 99). Also, Isn't it ridiculous that they threw out most of the improvements Dark Souls 2 made (like soul level) along with the detriments? It's like From is trying to just shove the entirety of Dks2 under the rug.
I noticed that too. Dark Souls 2 is really underappreciated in my opinion. I mean, things like removing the L3 jump in Bloodborne, or bringing back the dumb inventory UI they had in Dark Souls 1 instead of the vastly improved one in Dark Souls 2 (thankfully they did bring it back for DS3).
Two years down the line with yet another game added to the series and DS3 *still* averages around 2-3 times as many active players as all the other Souls games combined. "Dead" my ass.
@@maxenfelter almost four years post-release and it still averages 2-3x as many active players as the other souls games combined. i literally get invasions instantly whenever i pop the red eye orb in pretty much every single area of the game with the correct sl.
I agree with everything here. The one thing you didnt mention was how its impossible to punish hosts for running to the fog door. as soon as they touch it, they're free. you have to be a really seasoned player to succeed with invasions on dks3 and even then theres a massive element of luck involved.
dead by daylight, for honor, and dark souls 3 invasions. do you only enjoy playing unbalanced games?
Hes got Elden Ring now too
Oh and also, Dark Souls 1 is still active with a lot of new players; both on pc and ps3. (I don't have a 360 so maybe there to.) So we can all go back to there and be happy with the best game ever made :D
Dark Souls 1 is easily the most broken, worst game in the series. Stop championing this clunky mess of horse fuck. It was good at the time and is a horrible game in hindsight.
+TheMadIsraeli LUL
Dark Souls 2 was way superior in terms of PVP, replayability and amount of content. In my opinion, that is.
+John Cano hes right ds1 pvp was all exploits lmao.
You can't say that when DS2 exists
Sure DS1 was flawed, but it made up for it
DS2 on the other hand is just shit no matter how you look at it
Yep all awesome points. They really could fix this and make invasions a little less.... infuriating.
However those 3v1 victories are oh so sweet
I've heard that the seed of the giant's tree only spawns when you lose against an invader, which is kind of like from saying, "Hey, here's something that will help you next time and make the invader's last hope into a slice of hell."
Honestly there are 3 types of successful invaders now
1. Complete the game low level or have a friend give you end game level equipment to twink
2. Use a one shot, or insane combo build to decimate everyone
3. Invade in the area after pontiff and wait for back up invaders to counter gank the gankers
I rarely if ever see novelty builds or joke builds, all I see is meta weapons and spam to win like a "pro"
Twinking is literally impossible nowadays btw, you can only invade peeps with a weapon upped as much as yours, and never below. So gear wise the invader isn't gonna have that much of an advantage at low levels.
+Mason Guyman
You can twink, simply used a raw infused weapon with high base damage or a powerful non uh raced boss weapon, get all the estus shards and bone marrows to have maximum healing potential and you can outlast the host and any phantoms easily, twink builds are possibly rille about 50-60 range from personal experience of helping my friends out who first pick up the game
in dks2 you can win with joke builds, dual world mundane ladles for example. Here it is impossible.
+Mason Guyman 27 vig with the stats to meet the weapon you are using and a fire or raw infused +2 weapon hornet ring sun princess ring cloranthy ring and life ring. You should be around level 20-30 which will still let you invade people in the beginning areas. There is your early game twink build. Dark souls 2 got rid of that until the agape ring but even then it's not common to find twinks in dark souls 2.
What was the best game for pvp
DS2
DkS2 was probably the best PvP experience but personnaly I enjoyed DkS1 better even with some of the flaws others can point out.
Ds2, and it wasn't, it still is. People are playing.
It makes me sad that I hate invading so much. I love the PvP in this game, dueling is some of the most fun I've had with it. But like the video said, 9/10 invasions are 3v1 ganks with a seed activated. It's just really not fun anymore
i once invaded someone who summoned a total of 7 phantoms (5 of which i killed) through out the invasion and roll spammed whenever i try to attack him; that was one of the most frustrating pvp experience ever in any game ever.
I switched to a one shot int build after that.
i think the best way to make invasions more enjoyable is to just disable the hosts ability to summon phantoms during invasions.
that's not a lot to ask for, right?
all points are invalid. everything is *working as intended.*
Here's my two cents.
-Ashen not reduced.
-If any phantoms are present the -30% hp is not applied.
-If two or more phantoms are already summoned blues and moon will not be summoned.
-No summoning while being invaded.
-When calculating invasion levels, if the target person to invade is using a password, treat it as if you were invading the highest level phantom. You also get scaled down.
-Souls drop where you used the item (does this even need to be said)?
You're forgetting about how mound makers exist, who take up a friendly invader slot and are usually either stupid (they attack reds now knowing their real targets) or treacherous (attack reds hoping they will be rewarded to stay by the host).
Really the only way to invade in this game is as a purple because the conditions for victory are so scaled back it's laughable compared to what a red has to do.
not* knowing
Yup, a lot easier just to focus on and kill a few phantoms than it is to murder literally everyone in the world and the hosts enemies too.
+William Miller Yeah man, you can even gank stray whites with reds because reds will never attack you unless it's an accident (their goal is very clear cut).
I think the biggest problem is that fromsoft improved interactions on every covenant other than the darkwraiths, who got hit hardest by the nerf mallet.
I don't think they accounted for the fact that the host has 0 obligation to protect phantoms and can expend them like ammo (making a purple's job easy af) while phantoms have every necessity to protect the host (making a red's job an absolute nightmare).
Malevolent Macaroni You know it's bad when you invade, but in the end you become the real victim.
Sadly even some reds are complete morons and will just backstab you because they have the attention spam of a child and need to hit someone without giving a shit of who that is.
Scott you said there's a lack in build diversity at the end? What's that about?
Most people are running 40 str 40 dex and then a weapon of their choice. Not much point in building stats in a different way.
Dear From.
Fuck.
This is just my opinion, but I really enjoyed the PvE aspects of Dark Souls 3. They highlighted what was best from the series. But, unfortunitly the PvE is not what is going to make me come back to it, for a long, long time. The best thing that can be done to Dark Souls 3, is to take the PvP from Dark Souls 2, and put it into Dark Souls 3, save for Soul Memory. I personally don't like the weapon level restrictions, but keep those in so long as you fix shit. Putting restrictions on your PvP, the only part of the game the majority of people are going to be playing, is not a good idea. It hurts longevity, and overall fun. There is a reason I have 1500+ hours in both Dark Souls 2 games, but only 200 in Dark Souls 3 before I stopped. There is no incentive to Invade, let alone PvP. Dark Souls 2 had some restrictions on PvP, sure, but there is a reason people are still playing Dark Souls 2: the PvP. Veterans are what create longevity, and if you are trying to make sure your game is being played years into the future, cater to things that make the game worth playing.
I'm starting to repeat my self, but let me say this. You made a good game. Dark Souls 3 is by no means a bad game. It's just a good game that is only worth playing for around 20 hours or however long it takes to beat it. Then you can safely put it down, save yourself the stress, and go back to Dark Souls 2, the only game with longevity in the entire series. Figure out why, if I didn't explain it well enough, and transplant the mechanics into Dark Souls 3, Warts and all.
As someone with 1000s of hours into DKS1 I disagree. Constant backstab fishing would get old and a lot of STR weapons were shit.
+Grim Venture backstab fishing was only for inexperienced players.
Scott, you killed it here. Everything about invades in this game were meh and not very fun. I enjoyed dark souls 2 so much more. Elden ring, feels similar to this, but the only plus side is that elden ring does have more build diversity. I seriously think elden ring would pop off if they brought back a need to use something similar to humanity and if they almost halved all of the damage for most weapons against other players.
it's funny because that "new player who wants to try invasions because that's what ds is famous for" is probably the same player who fucking ran through the whole game with 2 summons and when he got invaded he spammed the signs to get phantoms back if they died. so.... thank god he gets fucked back.
No! bad! that's bad circular thinking! Bad brain, bad!
Good thoughts. What about invading as a purple? That negates the infinite resummons.
DLC isn't going to add much longevity to this game. Items, new areas, a short lasting popularity spike, that's all DLC is good for. The only thing you can do with invasions is try to have fun with them. Because if you try hard, you're just going to realize all the shit you put up with and get salty.
3 or 4 invasions per playthrough? I've had triple that in a single area.
Please send this to FromSoftware
彼らはあなたを気にしないでください。
まあダークソウルズ2に戻って、それをファック
If only I understood Japanese.