Porsche 911 997.1 vs 997.2 more Porsche for less money.
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- In this video William and I take a look at the differences between the two Porsche 911 997 generation cars built between 2004-2011.
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Thanks Nick for giving the 997 generation some love and recognition. Still looks fantastic, classic 911 shape, with modern looking interior and such a joy to drive even for a 13-14 year old model. I have a 997.1 C4S for 10 years now and it still rips and is a complete joy to drive. Purchased with 6k miles and now has 80k miles. Very reliable so far with no issues whatsoever. Drive it like you stole it!!!
DAMNIT NICK DON'T TALK ABOUT THE 997's!! I want them to stay affordable for the next 5-7 years so I can pick one up when I retire my Golf R family car!!!
Haha, so funny. I had a mk6 golf R and sold it for a 997.1. i fit my 3 year old behind me and my 4 month old in the front passenger. I had to get the Porsche OEM airbag deactivation kit installed to fit my infant in the front passenger. But I really only put both of them in on occasion. My daily is a Passat GT.
Ha ha ha I know right this is the reason I went for the 997 cab S mark II manual last year before it is too late price wise...and loving it so wishing you to reach your goal ! Have a great 2020 !
And how did that work out?
@@fulllietuvostv I still daily the 6spd Golf R and I still love it. I'm actually getting a Porsche but not the 997 -- hopefully I win the auction for the 957 2009 VR6 Cayenne! My kids have really liked camping in Utah but my wife's van and my R don't go places off road that we want to go so I've been renting Jeep Wranglers. Anyway I'm trying to snag a 957 generation Cayenne and get it a modest lift with some good 32" all terrain tires to head off into the wild more often.
The transition then is to sell the Golf R, daily the Cayenne (maybe) and then get that 997!!!! We shall see since life changes for me often.
I love my 2005 997. Had it for over 3 years now, with zero problems.
Had it only 36 months? 😂 And your calling it reliable? Uhhh, ok 👌
I had the same gen in the Boxster and it had problems. These cars share many similar parts... it was not terrible, but it was not great. My AMG Mercedes has had no issues...
Same here. Most reliable car I’ve ever owned 😊👍🏻
My have motor problem s
Carrera2 what can you say about the resale price? And how much would it cost in a few years (depreciation or increase in price?)
Just grabbed a 2007 997 S Carbrio. Absolutely love it
Enjoi it, 997 is one of the modern classics
40k for a 997 represents great value in my opinion - the last true ‘manual’ 911 which has aged very well and is bound to be a future classic. Great video as always Nick 👍.
while it may look handsome in 20 years time, it will probably not be all that collectible and valuable. There were too many produced, and they are very well made, so there will be far too many still surviving in several decades.
@@wincrasher2007 997.2 was introduced right as the Great Recession came around; I believe they were produced in pretty low numbers for a modern era Porsche.
1:19 "such a lovely car to own". That black cabriolet with a tan interior is indeed lovely; it's a classic combination that in 20 years time will look as nice as it does today.
azaz911c Yes, quite lovely, but your checkbook will hate you when it comes time to replace that soft top. All soft tips have to get replaced at some point, you just hope it is not on you when the time comes.
Not expensive re convertible top. The hydraulic pistons run about $600 ea new and you can always gamble with used cab parts from LA Dismantler to lower the price. Canyon runs in a can only be exceeded fun wise in a two wheeled vehicle; the sound of 911 with top down as your rev up and down over and over is worth it. That tan interior is stellar
computerhelpcc good deal! I remember back in the day when I had a Saab convertible. When that top and motors went out, it was truly a Saab story.
I had the option to pick up a forest green (not sure what the actual color is called) over tan very well specced 911 4s for 38k a couple years ago....I kick my ass every day that I didn't
picked up a 997.2 4s for 36k canadian. Love the car even though most buyers were scared of the 220k kms.
Love the 997's. IMO, the last of the 911's before they started to get a little big.
Before VW
To whomever questioned my previous comment:
VW bought a 49.9% non controlling stake in Porsche in 2008, and bought the remaining 50.1% and thus full control in 2012.the 997.1 was 2005-2009 and the 997.2 was 2009-2012.
Meaning the gen 1 was completely VW-less and the gen 2 just benefitted from their money but not control. The 991 came out with full VW ownership and subsequent models have been developed while completely under their control.
Yes the original 911 was based on the beetle that ferdinand made for VW, but the 997 had nothing to do with VW and that is one of the main reasons it will be valuable. People today say the 993 is amazing because its the last of the air cooled, well in 20 years the 997 will be a classic and the last of the non-VW 911's.
Christopher O'Grady 997 was based on the 996... same engine and trans. Minor cosmetic upgrades, headlights helped a lot. Not the best Porsche by any stretch of the imagination
H P and the 996 was a fantastic car except the headlights and interior...
I own a 944 and any Porsche later than 1995 is a monster, it feels....you can fit two 944s inside the modern 911.
The cup wheels are probably my favorite Porsche wheels.
Also, now that you're old you need a 911 convertible Nick. 😂
The 997 Sport Classic model is one of my all time favs
Thanks Nick. I really enjoyed driving the pace car. Loved the way my car looked driving down the road!!
Hope you didn't get TOO attached to the macan!
Thanks for this Nick. It's a good resource for people trying to understand the difference between the two. My salesman only said "the electronics are better" in the refresh.
Thx for the vid Nick! Nice to see older models can please, too. Grrreetings from Irwin, this time from France (instead of The Netherlands)
Thanks Nick! As always, your review hits the spot where the consumers always contemplate .... 997.1 or 997.2. Personally, I will look for a 997.2.
Great video Nick. One small thing to point out, you mentioned that the 997.2 only had two common body panels with the 997.1. I don't think this is true. The front and rear bumpers were updated, but that's it. Also the standard headlights remained the same but the dynamic cornering headlights were introduced. Thanks.
997 C2S has 355 bhp... 0-60 mph figure of 4.8s is the official figure, but in reality it's often nearer the 4.5s mark 😉.
As for the gen 1 issue... Only 5% of them have has an issue, and most got fixed or got the necessary upgrades fitted to eliminate the risks of bore scoring etc... The manual steering on the gen 1 is much better than for the 2nd gen...
I just bought a gen 1 with tons of work done to it and upgrades (exhaust, brakes, low temp thermostat, steering wheel, gear shift etc...) in manual version and it's fabulous to drive. Let's face it, 355 bhp is plenty enough for UK roads🥴. The added 25 bhp in the 2nd gen might be good for the ego, but in real life 99.0% of car drivers won't notice the difference between the two generations, and you can always play with some mods to spice up the 1st gen😉
Poor William - face planted into the back of the drivers seat. Good content as usual. Greetings from NZ.
I have two 997.1´s a c2 cab and a c2s coupe. had them for years and basically no problems, very good cars overall.
Maur filmer yes 2 years, only 24 months. Get back to us when you’ve had actual ownership experience, at least over 5-6 years
H P well, its actually 3,5 years on the c2s and 1 year and 7 months on the c2 cab.... that's over 5 years combined, but I'll shut up and wait a couple of more months... because something will probably go wrong with both of them until then. When did I ever say I had them for only two years??
Maur filmer nice one. Good collection
Good film again, thank you.
Best regards from the UK.
WF
Thanks Nick! That is a very good comparison between the two 997 models. Great video!
Nick while I do like the 928 a lot, I wish you would have gotten one of these. I have the 997.2 and absolutely love it!
From what I’ve heard, the .1 engine is more characterful than the .2, both in terms of sounds and the way the engine vibrates and reacts to throttle input and revs.
I'm on my second 997.1 Carrera S (should not have sold my first one) and they are an insane performance value for the money. If you're even slightly considering one just do it!
Looking forward to your review of the 997 Turbo. Thank you for all your insight.
Love my 2009 997.2 C2S Launch Edition. Car has been flawless for 5 years. Only needed an exhaust and modern paddle steering wheel.
Our cars are long-lost brothers. I agree fully. PRG/SB for life!
Nick; great review! I have a 997.2 and
everything you reviewed is correct from
my research and ownership. The 997.2
is trouble free and fun to drive.
Murray. The Original Porsche Fan Boy. There Is No Other.
We’ve been waiting a long time for this review! Thank you! The 997 is definitely one of the best cars I have driven. Everything felt just right when driving the car. The steering, the transmission, the engine response, power, the noise, handling, etc. Amazing car.
hi !! what version did you have? 997.1 or 997.2?
3.6 or 3.8? manual or automatic transmission ?
@@Sicolirics I didn’t own it unfortunately, but the one I drove was a 997.1 with the 3.6 liter and a manual transmission. It’s the one car that stands out in my mind where everything clicked perfectly. From the gear shifter clicking through the gears to the clutch engagement to the throttle response to the brake feel to the balance of the car and the steering feel. Everything felt just right. I am definitely buying one in the near future.
@@goranmusinovic1350 Thanks Goran, your experiences are very helpful because I'm also looking for a 997.1
so I'm glad that those feelings come from that specific model
I also have in mind to buy a unit but I doubt between the mechanics 3.6 vs 3.8, I think both will be very good
good luck in your search friend and thank you very much for everything
Please do a Cayman/boxster 987.1 and 987.2 as well Nick. Keep the vids coming 👍🏾
Some of the best advice you have ever given Mr Murray. Get one for yourself!
Thanks Nick! I think the .1 had bore scoring issues as well?? Looking forward to the 997 turbo review.
Rapid dry towels are legit. I can’t believe how good they work. Thanks.
A cracking video as always, cheers Nick.
Yay!...I’ve the same model (07 997.1 S cabrio in manual), and love it! I think the .1 models actually sound better than the .2 engines.
It's a fact.
Thank you for this review of the differences between the 997.1 and 997.2. Very informative!
Fast forward to Sept 2021. I just got my first 997.1 C2S manual transmission- took several years to find it and with only 14,000 miles cost us $71,000. 997s are no longer a bargain but worth it.
Just got mine!!! I recently purchased a 2007 911 CARERRA S cabriolet...with only 12k miles on it!!😍😍🙏🙏. Guards red over tan leather 6spd manual .Fantastic car!!!
Nice review and your black 997.1 cab is beautiful! The 997.1 06+ IMS is a non issue since it been redesigned with beefier bearings. The issue now is more in bore scoring but then again, every high performance car will have some issues. You just have to stay on top of things. 997.2 is not perfect either. They have carbon build up issues on the intake valve and high pressure fuel pump. Again, all high performance cars have some kind of quirks, some worse than others but if you maintain it properly and enjoy the car then it will be fine.
I see what you done here, the video goes 9:11 Minutes.
Alexander 9:12
9:12 on my side....maybe a hint at the next new Porsche model?😂
@@MixingGBP Ha! 9:11 here but yes a nice future prediction there...
I came here to write the same thing. I was far too slow on this one :(
I'm happy to say just picked up a White 2010 997.2 C-4 Cabriolet with 35.000 miles all leather with Bose Sound System I am over the moon with this car ! Cheers
Someday I’ll pick up another 911. All gens are great cars.
The Garden is looking good Nick. I don’t like the 718 or 992 so I’m now getting a 2016 Huracan to join my 987 Boxster and Macan S Diesel 2017. No kids has it’s benefits.
Cheers from Kent England.
Nick: “997 is a bargain”
Scotty: “Nine eleven? endless money pit”
Go drive a 94 Celica and then a 997 911. The Celica will keep you from wearing out your shoes but the 911 will make you appreciate every foot of travel of the journey.
Scotty is a dick. Let him live with his boring Toyota’s and Lexus’s
who DA FUCK is scotty?!
jimmy aber two different perspectives. Scotty is a mechanic that wants you to spend the least amount of money on a vehicle that gets you from point A to point B.
Scotty is not actually a mechanic, he's just a funny guy with a garage pretending to be a mechanic.
Oooof, a manual 997 carrera S cab, my dream 1 car garage
When buying 997.1, just replace IMS with permanent fix from LN Engineering BUT better get engine’s 6 bores scoped so you don’t find yourself with the other budget busting repair. Easy. Nick, there is NO predicting failures based on PPI or how it was driven so don’t gamble folks or your 40k 997.1 can quickly have 10k in repairs (yes, really); The interior is vastly more upscale than 996 I have although the swoopy interior door handles far more interesting. Tiptronic auto feels drastically slower than manual in first gear, but once you are doing 2nd and 3rd on curvy roads you cannot tell the difference so easily. Get the manual. I expect prices to fall when the c8 corvette arrives and settles in because many people are not THAT in love with 911 traits. I am, but when parts gotta be replaced they are not cheap and these are nowhere in the league of a Lexus on that score
Assuming you've got the upgraded bearings, does it make sense to get the bores scoped? is there any preventive action you can do if they are showing wear?
@@DeltaCharlie27 No prevention for bore scoring per LN Engineering
@@computerhelpcc thank you, sir!
This video helped me decide to purhcase a 997.1 C2S. Thanks!!!
I’m surprised you haven’t purchased a 997 Carrera to replace your 991 for the time being
This sounds fantastic! Love the power steering and manual transmission as well. Very cool. Would be my choice
As far as I know, the 997 Turbo S only came with PDK. The Turbo had the manual option. (Great video, BTW.)
2008 S manual with factory aerokit option checking in. Nick you forgot to say the 997.1 specifically should ONLY be bought in a manual because the tiptronic is just silly. And only 2005 had serviceable IMS. After that the problem was considered non existent. Keep up the great vids, fellow Frenchie owner as well.
There’s really not a huge difference between the tiptronic, and the PDK paddle shifters.
I own an 06-Cab. Absolutely love it. 95.000-dollar car for 1/3 of when new.
Love my 997.1, it's fun to drive, and there are a lot of DIY projects a shade tree mechanic can perform. Want to improve your exhaust sound - put the top down and then your can really hear that engine roar.
9:11 in length. Nice touch.
I try!
9:12 🌚
I'd still love a 997 GT3. Someone in midtown actually drives in his 997 GT3RS a few times a week. Can't wait until the GT4 group buy, its going to be epic!
ah that was a surprise to recognize a kiwi with an LHD car. cheers for the good review, they are really going up in price here, difficult to find well priced 997.2 let alone one with service history. must remain patient on the hunt haha.
Totally agree had a 06 c2s manual coupe 4 years zero issues
I have been told by PARR porsche specialist where my car goes that even the 997.2 suffers from bore scoring, incase anyone thought that that is not an issue amongst the .2
Thanks for helping me at the FB a group on my 911 4. Good review here
You should try the yellow ones Nick. Even more coolness (not that you could be any cooler) 🤣
Solid advice
This is exactly what I needed before checking one out. Thank you!!
Such a tempting car... I have a moral dilemma choosing between my current car and the 997.1 CS but the IMS, bore scoring and battery draining problems have always dampened my enthusiasm. It remains the best car I ever drove though...
Nick, love the channel... However, I’m currently standing in front of my 996.2 C4s and my friends 997.1 C4s and we are struggling to see the amount of mechanical differences between the two models as suggested in your video. Same engine 3.6/3.8, same gearbox, looking under the cars, again very similar if not the same suspension, the 997.1 has even 996 part numbers on the suspension.
Obviously exterior and interior are different but under the skin they are the same animal... 997.2 as you said is the new Porsche. The only other thing I would say is to my eyes the 997.1.2, 991 etc will suffer with the interior ageing quicker than the older models as the tech will look dated far more quickly than the rest of the car... As always enjoyed the video to the point it got the two of us off our backsides to compare cars ...
997.2 cabriolet was my first 911 and felt very special back in 2012
Roger Bailey were you at Silverstone classic Roger? I thought I saw you but I might have been mistaken.
Driver 81 Porsche no I didn’t go ! It Would have been great to have met up with you, maybe next time 😊
2012 is 991
I love it when it had built-in phone onto the dashboard itself, its so cool still in 2019
Turbo S was unfortunately only available with the then very new PDK box 🤓
911scales yes indeed, my mistake
Nick Murray the base turbo was available with stick shift but not the turbo s
Great videos! I learn so much from you! Keep it coming. Screw alcantara!!
Awesome review...great breakdown of the differences.
still miss my '07, same baby poop brown interior as that .1 I should never have sold that car.
4 years ago, I was going to buy a used 997.1 C4S, it broke when the salesman drove it from the parking lot to the show room, before I gave it a test drive. A week later I got a 2013 981 for the same amount of money, I’m so lucky that I made that decision.
I have owned a 2007 997.1 for 2 years now. Owned several air-cooled back in the day. Had a few minor issues but as I am a PM freak I hope to be ahead of the curve except for the unexpected. I agree with your assessment that they are a LOT of car for not so much money. I absolutely love mine and drive the snot out of it. Not a big fan of the Cabrio, though. But that’s just me. Too complicated and expensive when they break or wear out.
Love my 997.2
Great review Nick
Unfortunately the 997 is not responsible money in Australia but I can still only dream.
I spent the first hour looking for a used 997.2 C4S....and forgot to comment. :-)
I hate to spend nearly $45K on a car w/50 and 60K miles.....ugh...
Nice review though Nick...Looking forward to the 08-13 Turbo review!
I absolutely love the 997
Blessed to have a 997.1 GT2 in the family. I wouldn’t trade it for the world
Please do a Bell 222 aircraft review !!!!!!!!!! I love your aircraft review
Yes please and a Mooney M20F with a LoPresti cowl conversion! LOL!
Yes. We'll call him "Stringfellow Murray".
Bought a manual 997.1 c2s in May 2019... great car, couldnt justify the extra for the .2 for identically mileage examples (c. £10k extra in the UK = $12k). It's a slightly nervous bargin - all good so far (3k miles in) but that bore scoring potential still nags...! V happy I did it tho, and agree the 997.1 is def worth looking at, especially if good value. FYI the coupe could easily get a fluffy gloilla in the back in comfort, takes the 7 year old human just fine!
Turbo S was pdk only. But Turbo (Non S) was with manual.
997.2 gts red would be my choice. But still, in GER they are still at about 90k EURO; but I think that they should be quite stable; what do you think. But I think the best generation though would be the 991.1 GTS manual; last na-engine.
Hello Nick,
My name is Christopher and I enjoy your channel. I recently purchased a 2006 997.1 Carrera S, after reviewing your video! So far So good! Question. Do you know if the 911 Porsche Carrera S emblem on the brand new 911 Carrera S can be ordered and placed on my vehicle? I wanted to modernize it a tad. Thoughts?
Hey Nick get yourself a 997.2 don't go a new car, all the best.
great review! can't wait for the turbo review.
Blimey a new video from Nick, a rare thing indeed, I thought you had been kidnapped by the demands of your new job, glad you found a minute to escape the corporate bureaucracy and remember your poor old abandoned subscribers. :)
Have you considered purchasing the new 718 Cayman GT4?
Cool report, to the point and pleasant to watch, thanks.
My 2009 c2s is still under warranty, Porsche changed the rules from 10 years to 15 a few years back so any 997.2 should be good until 2023 if kept stock :)
and once the journalists will start to write how really drive the 992 , all the 997 will increase the value , the 997 / 991 were the pinnacle of the performance 'n pleasure of driving
The 997 series 2 C4S is THE model to get I feel or at a push, perhaps a good example 996 C4S. I think this is the way to go for your next 911 :-)
Just saw the house vid. The Porsche. Living in Connecticut. Damn this guy's living the American dream.
I'm not a vette guy but that new c8 is gonna kill prices of all kinds of cars. Gallardo, 360, and all 997, 991, porsches.
I dont know. I would never buy a corvette over a porsche no matter how much better value it is. Might be crazy but a lot of people feel that way :)
I don't think so. The performance will be amazing but it will have all the normal short comings of a Vette
C8 Corvette IS going to clobber many used sports cars prices. Had a Boxster and a Jaguar XKR coupe before my 911 but I most certainly did consider Corvette because they were/are exciting. Many 911 owners are not THAT into it and a C8 is going to pull on them hard. I gotta have that back seat so I’m staying 911 another decade. After that, Boxster S or Vette are on my list
Nick Murray c8 will have performance ,and for the first time looks ,and at a much cheaper price then most used 5yr old Porsche/Ferrari . Also, it’s gonna have factory warranty unlike the 5yr old Ferrari/Porsche. The c8 is gonna make the market way more competitive and I love it. Will make the 991 I want obtainable. Remember what it was like when the c5 was released? Then the c6 came along and was that much better. This c8 is gonna pave way to a affordable market and a even better c9. Lastly, keep up the great videos.
Not many people will want to go from a sonorous flat 6 or screaming flat plane crank V8 to a pushrod Chevy small block regardless of where it's placed.
997 cars are truly the last generation that are pure to the Porsche 911 form and such a pleasure to drive $$$
Great video and 997 review. Now the real though question: would you rather get a MT 997.1 cabriolet or a MT 981 Boxster? Help me make the call !!!
Hmm, the Boxster is the better driving car and fewer problems but the 911 is a 911 so little easier to live with.
Replacing the IMS with engine in situ risks stresses on many internal components. Accepted wisdom is that it should only be done as part of a full engine strip down. Its not just the IMS issues with Gen 1 cars. Bore scoring especially on 3.8S is prevalent as Porsche over bored an engine that was already marginal on cooling having been initially designed as a 2.5: more so with the Tiptronic box as it defaults to starting in 2nd gear.
Gary Simpson There is no problem at all changing an IMS bearing in situ if it's done properly. Late 2006 onwards had a larger more reliable bearing but the engine has to be completely stripped to change it. Evans waterless coolant and low temp thermostat is a very good modification for these cars.
Aaah, I’ve missed you dearly Nick. Great review! Any more Macan or NZ content coming up? And where’s Becky? that minx...
Yep love that one got a 2011 997 Cab S manual mark II last year and hope it will âge well although I didn’t understand what you said might happened around the 25’000 miles mark regarding the issue hope you will reply to me with the info as prevention is better than healing even if I have only 17’000 miles on the clock so far !
Wishing you the best for 2020😉
I've noticed the park brake was down on the 997.2 I would go off on anyone who used my car and not set the parking brake. You can put a stain and eventually damage the transmission.
Finally ! My car gets reviewed. In my mind the best 911 with the best naturally aspirated engine sound 3.8L 355 HP, manual 4S
Curious to know 3.6 vs 3.8 of S now that everyone has had exposure to later enormous torque gains of turbo motors. I suspect pretty small and recall magazines questioning value.
@@computerhelpcc I have a 3.6 C2. Plenty of power, a blast to drive and very engaging. I've driven 3.8S and didn't really notice a difference and never felt the need to "upgrade". It's only a factor if you're prone to badge envy. The bigger brakes on the S would be nice if you track a lot, but the base brakes are plenty good and way better than other cars like an M3. If you're really pushing lap times and hammer the brakes might as well go with an aftermarket BBK anyway.
@@kimchee411 That is what I suspected. No need for the S motor and no need for the 4 (in my case).
996 and 997 gen 1 had literally the same underpinnings. Only a few body panels and the dashboard changed. In terms of handling, the 996 is just better simply due to its weight (lack of).
My 2005 C2 was the best car I have ever owned even though I did need a replacement engine (fortunately paid by the warranty!)
ims or bores scored?
The Turbo S was only available in 997.2 not 997.1 and only PDK
The long-term value is in the old 997 with the Mezger engine. Forgwt the touch screen.