The 3 Forbidden Lightsaber Combat Forms Explained!
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- In this thrilling sequel to our previous episode, we venture deep into the enigmatic world of lightsaber combat to explore three forbidden and rarely discussed lightsaber forms: Trakata, Juyo, and Vaapad. Join us as we unveil the secrets behind these hidden arts, delving into their origins, techniques, and the daring individuals who embraced their power.
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I do love how both the Jedi and Sith hated Trakata but for totally different reasons.
Jedi: It’s dishonorable.
Sith: Bitch move.
same thing basically
Cal Kestis: I don't care.
@@DarthNox66 he doesnt even use half of this technique, as well doesnt realize that he use it. Saying that he is trakata user is like saying that he is a grey jedi.
@@mrzirak792 That means that he has naturaly talent. Impresive
@@DarthNox66 its not really impressive. He used like one trick, he could exploit trakata but it wouldnt do anything because it seems like he wield some lightstick that does as much damage as beating large ahh tree with bare hands would do.
I would definitely practice Trakata. If only because I think it's hilarious that both the Jedi and Sith got big mad about being got by it.
The Jedi forbid it because of deception but will mind trick others to escape unfair deals. Lol.
I wouldn't mind using it.
It’s definitely the most practical why not take advantage of your weapon’s ability to turn on and off
Then you'd get stabbed in the time it took for your sword to reactivate.
Trakata is the classic grey Jedi style. A mix of light and dark, and to be honest most great Jedi were grey Jedi, they just didn't show it off and talk about how they fought the sith Lord with the classic pocket sand move.
Jedi: We won't use Trakata - it relies on deception.
Also jedi: **WAVES HAND** these aren't the droids you're looking for.
🤣🤣
I think I remember Trakata also being discouraged due to it being considered extremely risky and unreliable.
It is. It falls apart the instant you look at it from a serious swordmaster's point of view.
@@nuclearsimian3281 Yeah. I remember there being two notable practitioners in legends, both of whom relied heavily on using telekinesis to wield their lightsabers so that they could both use more lightsabers than they had hands and engage opponents from a distance.
It sounds like something that'd only work on an opponent that's been sufficiently distracted from the way people describe it.
@@nuclearsimian3281care to elaborate ?
Something about the time it takes for the lightsaber to turn back on... When off, it takes time to turn off, and when on, it takes time to turn on... that's why they would switch to using the force rather than reactivating the lightsaber immediately-
Otherwise, if they're caught off guard, they would lose as the time it took for the lightsaber to turn on would be the same amount of time as the 2 second window when you stop feeling stunned from the sheer amount of bullcrap that came from your opponent...
Use Trakata with dual-bladed lightsaber. Fight using only one blade, but mid-way through an attack shut off that blade and activate the other. Your opponent stumbles as they attempt to parry the first blade, and are caught by the second before they can regain their balance. Important to make your lightsaber look like a single-bladed lightsaber so the opponent doesn't know the second blade exists.
Big brain shit
It was actually in legends that one jedi turned sith had done just that and his weapon was so tainted that it was buried deep within the jedi temple to hide it.
Exar Cunn.
@kristophercusenza6514 Except the blade length and strength was controlled by the force making it a much more powerful weapon...
Like kao cen darach did to darth vindican
Trakata is interesting because its deal is more than just turning a saber on and off, rather its core tenet is winning a fight by embracing ultimate practicality. It's similar to the philosophy of Musashi in the Book of Five Rings. Favor no particular weapon or technique. Instead, get to know them all, and use that knowledge to recognise and punish your enemy's mistakes.
Musashi could say that because he had _two swords._ He could block and deflect with one then stab with the other. If he dropped or threw one at the opponent as a distraction, he could stab with the other and kill his opponent. Trakata only works if you're both a massively better duelist than the other, and you have a second saber or a saber staff, dual bladed saber, or other weapon like a blaster handy.
The big problem with that kind of technique is that it's basically a "main protagonist" technique. It requires the user to be constantly smarter and more cunning than their enemies, and their enemies to be so dogmatic and they fail for every trap.
It's fun in a work of fiction, because the writer can design characters that can still compete with "strong specialists", without being a specialist itself, and people usually love "pragmatic characters who overpower combat specialists". It's a common trope in Wu Xia as well.
But it kinda destroys the purpose of proper training. If some smartass can just beat everyone with its cunning then why bother mastering old arts / advanced techniques? Imagine that the user of Trakata isn't a main character but an enemy - how does that work? How do you stop an enemy that constantly outsmarts you?
No such thing as sportsmanship when it comes to life and death, you are either the one standing or the one dead... "All war is based on deception" - Sunzi, art of war
Agreed
Only hear to see the first contrarian disagreeing with this just to be different 🤣
The fact that windu thought he couldn’t beat Sidious in a 1v1 is so funny to me given how the fight actually ended up going
sometimes we play ourselves lol. Bet he was think after that W "well SHIDDD" *in Samuel L voice*
When you conflate all power as equal, you're a jedi. "Hes so influential, truly he must be a swordsman unrivaled". Nah homie. He's a wizard with a negative constitution modifier who spams Chain Lightning like a scrub.
@@GnohmPolaeon.B.OniShartzhe’s a really good duelist, he just looks down on it.
@@GnohmPolaeon.B.OniShartzhe’s a better duelist than almost all of the characters we see in Star Wars, he chooses the force because he thinks it’s the strongest weapon of any force wielders and that lightsaber fighting is primitive
Perhaps Windu opening himself up to the darkness so fully imbalanced his decision making. Would a Windu under complete control kill an unarmed prisoner? I wonder. Maybe he was correct to worry if he could defeat Sidious. Maybe Windu lost the war by the means he used in winning the battle.
Mace fully gave into Vaapad, allowing his body to move on its own..... So Mace went Ultra Instinct? Neat.
You see how he demolished thousands of droid all by himself without a light saber and he only arm himself with the force?
Trakata was not a Lightsaber combat Form but a Lightsaber technique utilised in all other forms.
i love how so many people have turned a vanity choice of a purple lightsaber into actual lore!
iirc the actor literally just wanted a purple lightsaber and there wasn't really a whole lot of lore back then so Lucas was like "yeah sure"
don't quote me on that though, i could be totally wrong, just going off of what i remember hearing
@@spartanwar1185correct, samuel wanted a purple lightsaber so he could see himself in big scenes like the geonosis arena
That's kind of how star was lore works. I'd say that's the reason why the "it belongs to the fans"-argument is more true for star wars than many other franchises. The lore is "alive" because good fan-fiction and fan theories tend to turn into canon.
Vapad just seems impossible to exist. How you gonna practice? Ask another jedi to get real mad so you can spar? Go drinking at the only Sith-friendly Bar on Coruscant? And what Sith is going to calm their own emotions to be able to use the form?
One thing many fans get wrong is this. Vapaad was not created by Sora Bulk. He possessed a failed attempt at Vapaad. That’s why it was inferior. Windu alone successfully created and Mastered Vapaad. Lesser Jedi could not begin to understand it. This is why Master Windu alone had the authoritative position to say who may or may not practice the form. Windu also made it so, The Jedi Council could have a say in who was worthy to dedicate themselves to it. This Lightsaber form and mentality was so dangerously close to the Darkside. Only Grand Master Windu was the only one who could successfully use it. No other Jedi Master nor Apprentice dared to even try. Knowing full well, they were not Physically Mentally nor Spiritually Strong enough. Even Yoda could not dare to try and tame The Darkside.
Sora Bulq aided Windu in making the form, however Mace perfected it on his own. It is mentioned in the graphic novel the video showed in example of their combat. I happen to own it, too.
Yoda was considered a Jedi sword master and had mastered all 7 forms of lightsaber combat, even Vaapad. He was qualified to teach all seven forms to other students although he most certainly wouldn’t teach Vaapad to anyone without Mace Windu’s input on the matter because of how close light side practitioners get to the dark side when using it. Also, Yoda never used Vaapad as a fighting form himself because his small stature wouldn’t have made using it practical. Form 4 Ataru worked best for him. That doesn’t mean he didn’t know the other forms or couldn’t effectively teach them. He just didn’t bother with them.
@@leroyjenkins4811 Master Yoda did Master all 7 Lightsaber forms. He Mastered Juyo, but not Vapaad. Windu alone was The only Jedi who created this form and spiritually power of the Darkside to serve The Light. If Master Yoda had any knowledge or Mastery of The variant 7 form Master Windu created. Master Yoda would’ve never lost to Darth Sidious. Master Yoda was a Master of The lightside of the force. He feared and avoided learning anything that could be used as a weapon of the Darkside. Master Windu was a Master over The Light & The Dark.
@@jordanglasper1064
Yoda didn’t lose his lightsaber duel to Sidious. In fact, Sidious was DEATHLY afraid of Yoda but he was simultaneously intrigued. He tried to escape his office several times but Yoda blocked his way and he had no alternative but to fight. If given the choice, he would have avoided fighting Yoda. Normally Ataru, the form Yoda was the most familiar with, wouldn’t be an advantage to him as it requires a lot of open space and acrobatics, but Yoda’s small stature was great at executing Aturu in small tight spaces. This is something Sidious knew and feared. Sidious was trying very had to keep up with Yoda and he supremely enjoyed the fight against the Jedi master because no one had ever tested or matched his skill with a blade. Remember, Sidious is a psychopath and truly enjoys dangerous situations. In the end, Sidious removed the lightsabers from the equation all together and switched over to force powers. He knew that if he didn’t, Yoda would soon kill him. Yoda lost the duel of force powers simply because Sidious was unrelentingly aggressive and came out on top. But just barely. When Yoda confronted Sidious he wasn’t playing around. He knew he had an extremely limited amount of time to kill Sidious before Sidious or Mas Ammeda summoned clone troopers. Yoda most certainly knew he couldn’t fight Sidious AND a gang of clone troopers all at the same time. Sidious effectively fought Yoda to a standstill but he knew that if he wasted any more time in a lightsaber duel with Yoda, he would die.
Windu was NOT grand master that was Yoda. Windu was only master of the order
Tarkata is definitely my favorite I feel like if you combine it with kraia's spinning sabers you would be super unpredictable because now the lightsabers are only spinning in the air they are turning on and off I geuss you could call this move flickerstorm or kraiakata lmao
Vapaad!
Then nothing stops the other person from cutting the deactivated saber in half and removing it as a threat. Its hilt can't block the swing, its blade could have.
@@nuclearsimian3281everything has a weakness, however it would be hard to focus on one light saber when 2 more are coming at you
teletrakata
Add a ghostfire crystal
I understand that because Mace Windu wasn't in the original trilogy that people think he NEEDED to die, but I feel like he was a seriously under-utilized character. I'd love to see him return in maybe a standalone film about him surviving after the fall.
In recent series, we've seen Bacta, and machinery heal wounds that would have killed characters in the past (poor Qui-Gon, with Bacta being invented 5 minutes after he died). For all we know, Mace was hiding out, like Obi-Wan was. Maybe they'll even make a series about him that isn't complete trash... like Obi-Wan was.
I would love a prequel series of Windu set even 20 years before the Clone Wars when hes still just a young man.
i dont think that will ever happen simply because of the person who fried him into oblivion.
Among all the force lighting capable sith sidious must have been among the strongest. And even if you live in some delusional reality where you think that anakin cutting off his arm did not shatter his concentration and he could have protected his body somehow with vapad, it is still unrealistic that a wounded windu would have survived order 66 after a duel with sidious, after a fall out of one of the highest buildings in corouscant, with his arm cut off and no lightsaber close by.
@@Zetraxes You know Maul came back like 3 times after being cut in half and thrown down a bottomless pit right? Saw Gerrera walked around in what was basically a portable iron lung by the time we saw him in Rogue One. Many characters have been "fatally wounded" only to appear a short time later having just taken a nice bacta bath or had some machinery installed in their gut. We didn't see the body; he could very much still be alive. There were countless Jedi who survived the fall of the order, most of which we've not even seen until recently (eg. Skoll and Hati).
Besides, I'm not seriously of the belief that Disney will do this, just something I'd like to see happen. You're also talking "realism" in regards to a Space Opera about magical wizards who wield laser swords, and practice telekenesis and telepathy.
@@jaybberwocky no i hold them to the logic of the universe which is normal when talking about fantasy. Maul was a dark side user and on that side of the force we have definitly seen crazier stuff, and gerrera surviving isn't even that crazy tbh. but the things i have mentioned before why mace windu can't survive are pretty big nonos in that regard. I think people underestimate by how strong sidous' force lightning was by taking Luke(one of the strongest force wielders to have ever lived) and anakin(the chosen one) as an example of how "not strong/lethal" it actually is.
@@Zetraxes Maul being a dark side user didn't ensure his survival necessarily. He wouldn't have even been able to function again properly if it wasn't for the Dathimiri Witches stitching him back together. In regards to Saw's injuries, do you actually know what an iron lung is? He literally had artificial lungs and limbs, and an entire suit keeping him alive. By any standards, I'd call those injuries "bad". I'm also not assuming or underestimating anything. Just going by what I've seen canonically. Everything you've offered is speculation, just like what I'm presenting. But mine is speculation based on evidence and the fact that Disney can do whatever they want with the franchise. Either way, you can poo poo the idea all you want. I personally think a Mace series or film would be excellent, whichever part of the timeline it covers (razatiger22 offered the idea of a pre-trilogies Mace for example).
I love how the very end of the sith code is never mentioned but it shows exactly where the order went wrong, the sith sought freedom and became slaves to there own beliefs. The jedi have similar failings but they are much more subtle.
I still think that Juyo is just the sithy version of Shii Cho since Sith use it as a base similar to Jedi using Shii Cho as their base. Sith usually built their personal styles on the chaotic nature of Juyo to make them more unpredictable whilst Shii Cho is about both melding into the force and self-restraint. I always thought that a Jedi using Juyo was a red flag even before the ban. Even Palpatine remarked that it's a SITH technique.
I think many of the sketchy techniques and teaching of the Jedi Order originated from Sith infiltrating them at some point, sabotaging them by making them more vulnerable to the dark through seemingly sensible but pretty dark teachings.
The teaching of entanglements for example is very sithy too. Like the Jedi, many lore fans are deceived by it too, no entanglements may seem as a strength, that you are not emotionally invested in anything that could jeopardize your duty as a Jedi but in truth, tying yourself to other living things should be a very good defense against the dark since your friends and family can act as anchors and the Jedi do teach relying on others is good. Strength in numbers! Instead of that they banned these things and forced the more emotionally vulnerable people to have secret relationships, lie about them, you get the picture... As long as you have a relationship in the open and you share things with your family and friends, you will receive the support and help that you need no matter how bad things get and you won't fall to madness. Same thing should go for the Jedi.
When the Jedi started locking themselves away from common people dissociating themselves from others and became a simple cog in galactic bureaucracy, that's when the Jedi started their fall, way before Palpy. The Jedi Order as it was would have fallen either way or would have turned into a new version of Sith or Dark Jedi, it was only a matter of time.
Juyo is pure unmitigated offense, so its opposite would be Soresu.
The Jedi forbid "entanglements" because it adds unnecessary risk to an already EXTREMELY dangerous lifestyle. Yes, those attachments can save but they FAR more easily and commonly lead to dark emotions like anger, jealousy, greed, and so on. That is VERY dangerous for a faction that use a morality based magic system where even a moment's loss of control can lead to disastrous consequences. People who try and claim that emotional attachment is good, fundamentally fail to understand the Jedi and the Force itself. Yes, it is good, for normal people.
Attachments saving 10 people doesn't matter if it dooms a 1,000. Especially when a single one of them can start cataclysmic events. Both Anakin and Luke show this perfectly. The Jedi are simply being pragmantic and putting the safety of the galaxy and themselves over their personal desires.
@@corruptangel6793 Shii Cho is the Jedi variant since that is purely offensive too and a base form just like Juyo is for the Sith.
Whilst Juyo requires you to immerse yourself in your emotions and fully give into them, Shii Cho requires you to empty your mind and let the Force take over in a similar fashion.
Those practitioners who specialize in Shii Cho are in danger because of darker impulses from the Force just like Juyo practitioners are endangered by their own darker - and in the case of a Sith, more uncontrollable - impulses.
That's why it is only used for a base and most usually move onto other forms, Sith tend not to fully specialize in it either since most Sith want to be in control and not be a berserk maniac.
Both are essentially dervish forms and Soresu only came when blaster tech became a lot better and more widespread. Until then, Jedi usually just mowed down your basic soldiers.
I'd say they are basically versions of the same meditative immersion they need to fully tap into their power whilst fighting and that's it, different sources, pretty much similar outcomes.
@MrPapamaci88
Interesting take, but I still disagree.
If Juyo is pure offense, then naturally, its opposite would be the style that is pure defense. Ie Soresu, which take the Jedi's ideals to their highest levels. Juyo is basically the embodiment of the saying, "The best defense is a good offense." Soresu embodies the saying, "the best offense is a good defense."
@@corruptangel6793 We all have our head-canon. 😄
@@corruptangel6793He's not saying Shi Cho is the opposite.
More like it's the parallel of Juyo?
I've always wondered whether turning the sabre on and off is a technique that has been explored. Interesting to learn that it has and why it was less common than I would have expected.
they're just butt hurt about how expensive it would be to animate
Look up Sith Lord Exar Kun
If we consider normal swordfighting, it wouldn't work
@@Mr0901 but lightsabers aren't normal swords, so those rules dont apply completely
@@Hiroyashy even a stick uses swordfighting techniques, when you swing you should Aim to body not the sword, so if you turn off the saber ,assuming the opponent IS aiming to kill, you just took your saber off his line of attack and you're dead. At best it's a kill-kill scenario.
Despite Jedi and Sith hating it, trakata is the most clever use of lightsabers and their specifications. I think it would be a good form for grey force users as it utilices the force without caring for being throwned upon by anybody. Also the idea of breaking the opponents balance would work well for a force user who is trying to be in balance between the light and the dark side.
it's also not clever at all its risky and u could die especially if the opponent is a good duelist they won't fall for it someone like obi wan would see through it
There is no such thing is gray. People who use the dark side for good like mace windu did are still light. People who use the light are light regardles if they are jedi or not. Dark siders are dark siders. moraly gray doesn't equal gray in the force. There is no such thing a grey force usage. Only light or dark side users who are moraly grey. Which is not the same thing.
@amberanime I get what ur saying ur saying for people who use both sides like mace his default force side will be light but he will be able to switch to the dark but he will be pulled back into light because of his morals but I also believe that there are people who use both and there default will be the dark side I mean u need the light to pull back from the dark but i don't think it matters if u don't give into the dark side and it can be ur default
It only works as long as the trakata user outsmarts their enemies constantly. It's purely a protagonist technique. Think about it: it provides a "third way" that allows the use of any Force power and is essentially superior to every lightsaber technique, it doesn't require extreme dedication, it's almost officially "super cool but super hard to master".
It's basically as if Zatoichi was a jedi. It's overpowered.
You forgot that Exar Kun wielded Niman AND Trakata (trykata) and was a master of the usage. This was not at all considered weak on the part of the Sith.
well Exar Kun wasn't really Sith, sure he was trained by Naga Sadow, but he knew nothing of Sith tradition or values, and I don't think he cared for them either.
@@mandoad1841 he was declared the true inheritor of the Sith.
@@mandoad1841 Are you sure you're not thinking of Freedon Nadd? Exar Kun fell to the dark side because of his fascination with the Sith; he knew quite a bit about their traditions and values. He was never really "trained" in the dark side, but he did have interactions with Freedon Nadd and Marka Ragnos, not Naga Sadow. He also coerced several other Jedi into joining him, and forming the Sith Brotherhood.
@@fizzywhizzbanger5610 you know what? I am thinking of Freedon, I forget he exists sometimes. I must have combined the two in my head. but i could have sworn it was Naga sadow. I don't think Exar ever went to Korriban and didn't he have a massasi army that he inherited from Naga?
@@mandoad1841 Exar Kun was led to Korriban by Freedon Nadd's spirit, which is where he accepted the dark side into his heart. Following that, Kun did indeed have a Massassi army, which technically was Naga Sadow's first, but Exar inherited it from Freedon Nadd, who was an apprentice of Sadow's.
Trakata was used briefly by a character (don’t want to spoil it) in Ashoka last week. Was so excited when I saw it! I had forgotten the name but remembered it being taboo.
For me, VAAPAD all the way because Mace is that guy!
Spoil it
Wait I just watch the whole season and I somehow missed that. Which episode was it in?
@@whuwhaaa2 hey! So it’s the episode where Ashoka is fighting Marrick (i’m sure I misspelled that name). When they are fighting there is a point when he has both blades extended. Ashoka strikes and they cross blades. While crossed, he detracts his top blade causing Ashoka to shift slightly off balance.
@@cowl6867 hey! So it’s the episode where Ashoka is fighting Marrick (i’m sure I misspelled that name). When they are fighting there is a point when he has both blades extended. Ashoka strikes and they cross blades. While crossed, he detracts his top blade causing Ashoka to shift slightly off balance.
@@whuwhaaa2 happens around the 15:08 timestamp in episode four
Mace Windu+Vaapad: The only instance of Ultra Instinct outside of Dragon Ball Super 😂
Juyo seems the most practical to master. Upon Mastery you would experience the same benefits of Mastery from Vaapad, while having the strength advantages of rage and fury. Trakata is definitely a trick you should have in your back pocket, but not as a core component of your fighting style. Master Juyo and Soresu with two lightsabers and call it Jureso. Can always drop the extra lightsaber if the situation calls for it, but Mastery of Soresu wielding two lightsabers seems practical as well since it would give more opportunities to utilize Trakata techniques.
Man, imagine a lightsaber wielder that is a master of both Makashi and Juyo, they'd be unstoppable in a 1 on 1 with Makashi being specifically designed for lightsaber combat.
Soresu hard counters BOTH of those. It is one of the reasons Kenobi was such a successful Jedi in his time, as virtually every darkside fighter practiced extremely offensive minded styles that his purely defensive one countered. In the books Windu even mentions that if it ever came down to a duel, only Yoda would be able to best Kenobi in a 1v1 confrontation. This being due to the sheer amount of force techniques Yoda could throw at Kenobi, not his lightsaber skills.
I wouldn't say Soresu counters Makashi, remember this is the lightsaber form that Dooku mastered and he has consistently bested Kenobi in all the times they clash due to how Makashi focuses solely on lightsaber combat and exploiting holes in a person's defense. @@Nempo13
I think you get to learn some cool 1 on 1 lightsaber techniques in the VR Star Wars game, Vader Immortal. I've played it, but I con't identify the forms
@Nempo13 dooku bodied obi wan in both duels though. Sidious would have beaten Obi Wan quickly as well..
@@Nempo13You're 100% wrong. Makashi is specifically said to hard counter Soresu, and it's why Obi-Wan always lost to Dooku in every duel. It's too precise to block and counter.
In one of the new jedi order books there’s a jedi with a dual phase saber. I believe it could switch from a normal silver blade to a much longer, thin purple blade. There was a scene in one of the books where he was sparring another jedi, and he used the long blade to bait his opponent, switching to the short blade in the middle of her swing and then closing the distance.
I can’t remember who it was. I wonder if that would be considered trakata? It wasn’t turning the saber OFF per se, but it was the same effect.
Personally, I would use Juyo with a Saberstaff, but that's mostly because I was introduced to Star Wars through the Phantom Menace as a kid. Darth Maul and Savage Opress are definitely two of my favorite Dark Side characters.
Same! The double blade was actually designed specifically for juyo! It has a speed advantage because you can hit the opponent way faster, and you have a 2 blade defense!
As a former fencer, turning off your lightsaber in the middle of a clash is a good way to get killed. It works in movies because they're not actually trying to hit each other, but in real combat the enemy is swinging to hit you. If your blade is not there, you will get hit.
There’s a right time, and a wrong time! There’s also more ways to do it.
I practice swordsmanship all the time and yes it’s very risky, but if used right, it’s very effective!
@@TheShadow14150 No, it is not. I have experience in HEMA, Kenjutsu, Iaido, and kendo. If you remove your sword from being in the path of theirs, they will hit you and you will die.
@@nuclearsimian3281 if you just stand there and turn it off, you will die! Gain the offensive (or at least a clash), get out of the way of the opponents blade, deactivate, then get the kill! It’s more than just a simple cheap trick, and it’s basically cheating anyway.
@@TheShadow14150no such thing as cheating in a fight to the death
@@nuclearsimian3281you're thinking to restrictively, if I go to swing at you, you then proceed to block the hit, I deactivate my weapon before it clashes with yours, your swing continues in that direction. All it takes is a single misstep, half of a second between life and death.
I feel like a proper Soresu and Juyo master would make you nigh unstoppable
Juyo alone is already enough to make one unstoppable, given that it's basically both Form V forms super-steeped in the dark side after all.
Trakata wasn’t a lightsaber form. It was a maneuver. There wasn’t a form based around this. Juyo/Vaapad both essentially function the same as well, the mentality in combat is just slightly different. While Vaapad is reflecting of ones darkness, Juyo internalizes it. Sequence wise they are more or less the same.
THANK YOU. Finally someone else understands this. I swear people either make up stuff to fill in the gap without inferring from other sources or just plain start rumors.
I think it can be considered a form. Forms are like guidelines for movements and maneuvers. Even if it hasn't been expanded upon, a deceptive form (instead of defensive, aggressive, balanced, acrobatic, etc) wouldn't be unreasonable. There would have to be steps and setups of Trakata that get the user into position to use the signature technique of turning off and on.
@@Zequintiny The forms aren’t like guidelines though. In both canon and eu material there has been specific maneuvers attributed to each forms making it distinct. Trakata is one you can splash with any of the other ones.
Tracata with Vaapad . This would be the ultimate combination. Of course knowledge of other forms is needed as well to understand your opponents that usually use them .
Vaapad is most effective against dark side practitioners as it uses the opponent's dark side channeling to make them readable.
Vapaad for me I love the form so much
pratice and use them all, taking the best from all forms to create something new. truly balancing the force from a neutral stand point
this is perfect, i just made a jedi character for a sw5e game that combines Shien, Djem so, juyo and Vaapad, the character is written that he enjoys combat and his flaw is that he is easily enticed into it and i also want him to always be on the tight rope between light and dark, tempted but managing to stay balanced
Trakata would be my favorite. To hell with the dogma's of others. Trakata could be so powerful when well-trained.
This is literally the only time I have ever come across Trakata in any form whatsoever, and I have researched the 7 classic forms of lightsaber combat so extensively that I could probably teach it. Thank you for sharing this with us. Always good to learn something new.
There are more than those. Niman has 4 variants alone. 1 the Jedi exclusively used in the old republic era, one the sith used exclusively in the old republic era, and 2 that survived into the movie era. The jedi version of niman allowed one to use battle meditation in combat and pull upon the force more strongly, this is how one would be able to block a lightsaber with their bare hands. This drove sith insane with rage because it was a feat they could NEVER accomplish btw. The sith version similarly was connected to the force but required the user to be close enough to a source of dark side energy to truly make use of. It could allow someone to shoot lightning repeatedly again and again, but it required a nexus connection so not many could use it.
Jer Kai is the variant most know from Niman and is what everyone who dual wields needs to at least learn to proficiently use two lightsabers with any OTHER form.
The other one is the 'diplomacy form' and as far as I know was never named and was just known as a variant form of Niman. It allowed one to channel the force continually while at the ready in order to influence those around them.
Every form has variants in the lore, especially in the old republic era. Which was the era that both the sith and jedi were at their strongest combatively.
@@Nempo13 🤯
I use vaapad on the regular, I like how it allows you to use your passion in the fight, but still be in control of yourself
Definitely Trakata.
Any advantage should be used in lightsaber combat.
It's not a fencing dual, after all.
Trakata for me, sounds perfect for me and for a Grey Jedi
Depa Used Vapad?!? That's epic! Knowing that it makes so much sense as to why Kanan was the way he was! Absolutely epic, and I thought I wouldn't learn anything interesting watching this. Good vid!
Vaapad technique is incredible. The fact Windu was the only person who could use it easy and effortless.
I'd practically practice all 3 of these forms.
Trakata for Practicality.
And skimming between hardcore Juyo and calm Vapad consistently depending on situation. I'd do this via having Juyo + Trakata as my base lightsaber forms, and try to get good at gauging the situation in the thrill of battle to know when to switch to Vapad.
I'd also probably try to practice the normal actually not forbidden soresu (form III which Kenobi used and top defense form), for more efficiency during these bursts of gauging scenario on the fly (aka when simply gauging on fly during Juyo weakens this dark-side lightsaber form too much, and I need to resort to going with the flow more).
I've always wanted to see a Mace Windu origin movie because I feel like he had to overcome some dark tendencies to be as chill as he was and develop Vaapad.
My Sith Lord name would be "Darth Aneurysm: The Silent Killer".
Trakata feels like a very "New Sith" technique. Based on the ideals put in place by Darth Plagus and Darth Sidius of deception and corruption, instead of direct and furious conquest, Trakata feels like something that they would encourage.
ngl, Trakata seems to be the safest and most practical of the three. It could also make you really unpredictable which in a life or death lightsaber duel would be a weapon of its own.
Most practical yes, but not the safest. Turning on and off your weapon during combat with a skilled opponent could be lethal if you didn't have a mastery over the weight of your blade and the Force. Because any good opponent would realise what strategy you employed soon enough. Then they would exploit the time needed for the blade to ignite and cut you down.
It's also like fighting with a flashlight... but turning it on and off as you go. Dangerous stuff.
Vaapad is literally like getting bullied but instead of the bully hitting you, they are hitting themselves as you say to them stop hitting yourself. Meanwhile they don't even know why their own punches keep landing on them. I'm taking Vaapad
Bro great video. I’ve always loved the Juyo of Sidious. He is sinister with his Juyo
I can't believe a simple tactic is now regarded as an entire style. Literally any force user in any style can turn off and on their lightsabers at key moments. Why don't more ise it? Because it's a really dumb gamble that leaves you completely vulnerable if it fails for any reason.
I was wondering where this came from because it's not mentioned in any of the books or comics I've ever read, nor in any of the guide books like Path of the Jedi, Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force and so on, so I looked it up. Well, the reason I've only ever hear UA-camrs talk about it is because it's fanon and apparently got name dropped in a role-playing game rule book.
Exxar used it more or less as a full style, his lightsaber was even designed around being variable length to help with it. That's pretty much the only time in all of Star Wars canon or Legends where someone took it to the point where I'd consider it a legit style though.
I think it would also be unfathomably powerful if Lumiya, Vesper or Traya used it heavily in their styles.
There’s a legends book called shatterpoint where Mace Windu uses vapaad. Really good book and great insight into Mace Windu.
Jakarta form is very interesting because it can surprise the enemy and allow to create window to counter attack. Most importantly if use this form right and master it form, it can manuver and defeat many enemies with ease
Bro. Jakarta is a city lel
Vapad and trakata are interesting forms of combat,i will probably practice them
Trakata was used in the Ahsoka series too, Ahsoka vs Marrok in episode 4!
Trakata: The one thing Jedi and Sith could agree on; It being a dick move
Vaapad, no doubt.
The prequel saber fights were so good...
If you could combine Vaapad, Trakata, Mikashi, and Juyo with a touch of Soresu... you would be one helluva Lightsaber duelist.
Technically Juyo and Vapaad are the same form, Vapaad being a more refined form. Still, it would be epic to see a battle of all the masters of a specific form dueling against a master of those you mention.
@@naebhor6931 I see. The only reason I mentioned Vapaad to be honest, was because if you were a Lightside wielder or even Non Jedi with Force abilities like Ahsoka, you could be a conduit for Dark Energy and use it against a Darkside wielder. But I didn’t realize Vapaad and Juyo were the same. Thanks for the insight!
@@thescepterofjudah12 no bother. Based on this video alone I can understand the confusion, there are other sub-variants that this video shows as new or other forms. I agree with your points. Windu only defeated Sidious due to his mastery (and creation) of Vapaad. Anyone else with the right mentality and teachings could, potentially, do the same. As I wrote before, it would be epic to see a 1 Vs 7 master duel (or 1 Vs 5) with the one using all forms against the others using a single. I think it would be on par with the Vader/Kenobi, Ahsoka/Maul, Yoda/Sidious, Starkiller/Vader fights. As you so aptly wrote: "you would be one helluva Lightsaber duelist."
Just master all the forms.
I believe tarkata is a smart yet strategic way to defeat Jedi or sith in my personal opinion, both sides being upset due to the fact that it works and defeat any form user. As well I would use also use juyo it is as well very aggressive and smart too. I can see in my opinion that Jedi lie too and are hypocrites to, claim to be peacekeepers but knowingly that they could be helping corrupt politicians but do nothing about it. I believe luke skywalker in my opinion saved and made the new Jedi order the right way.
I would use Vaapad all day it's the best fit for me knowing I'm well versed at using the dark and the light ☯️
If I was a character in star wars I'd definitely want to practice Trakata. I've thought many times about why they never/rarely switched the lightsaber on and off mid fight to disrupt opponents since it seemed like an interesting way to fight.
Now I know why thx.
Trakata was actually allowed just it was frowned upon if used. Exar kun brought it out to its maximum potential when he reigned as the sith master. The form had flaws which had to be corrected on the fly in the heat of battle which meant it was not suited for major engagements but was good for a surprise in duels. After the surprise you pretty much have to do something else quickly. Exar kun had a variable toggle on his lightsaber that could adjust his blade from the no damage ghostly light to the strongest densest blade possible just like that always adjusting on the fly never hitting the same move the same way twice. It confounded many of the era’s top masters even the council were stunned because they never faced a lightsaber like it. Exar was defeated when nomi sun rider and hundreds of Jedi put up a force barrier around the base of operations trapping Exar inside and him having to do a ritual to give up his physical body which chained his spirit inside the tomb ending the threat for a couple of generations. It took until the new Jedi order to banish the spirit out and into the force several hundred years later.
Vapad with aplication of tarkata here and there, paired with a scyth saber kitted with a lava kyber crystal and a few shoto sabers each kitted with either ghost kyber crystals or that acidic crystal would be great.
Vapaad, Trakata and Soresu Fused into my own style. The defensive movements and cycling whirling flow of defense, the blade only on when it must be, and the ever cycling whirlwind of threat and counterbalance. I would name the style after some form of whirlwind or an undertoe. Against blasters it would be combined with evasive movements to sidestep blasts when possible while drawing saber only to bat blows back or to parry ones that cannot be dodged. Against other sabers it would only activate on points to connect with an enemy, saber or otherwise. Aiming to bypass guards outright and using the connection of Vapaad to connect me to the flow of the enemy blade and energy.
The idea is that the saber would ignite always when it had passed guard, or to guard for a brief half a moment yourself. Always moving for unexpected angles.
Lastly, even when igniting defensively or for closing distance the blade is never extended beyond half length. Enough to parry, counter and close. Only extending to full length for strikes you intend to hit with. A stab at half length, followed by a parry and a sweeping downward strike, as they rise to block slide back a half step as you strike to feign a miss and extend the rest of the blade as it passes the line of the block, either pushing the enemy saber back into their body with the contact or cutting them in the middle as your blade is much longer than you've been fighting with.
Stance wise, keep the blade igniter, even when off, pointed at your foe. Always keep the blade and its potential length aimed at your foe. Because your blade isn't consistently on, they cannot bat the threat away. They would have to accept charging into a place where the blade could ignite at any time from nearly any angle.
I tend to focus heavy on form 7 in the duals I have been a part of at convention events.
Idea for a variation of Trakata: instead of shutting the blade on and off, the use has a double bladed lightsaber which only activates one end at a time, the user then switches between a standard grip and reverse grip without having to spin the saber
Vapaad for sure. It's the ultimate form for mastery of ones own emotions, which allows one to become perfectly balanced. However it does veer extremely close to the edge, so only those who have a deep understanding of themselves and a highly resistant mind, should be using it. You must be at total peace with yourself to be in total control of yourself. Only then will you be able to use vapaad without risks
Trakata always reminded me of QuickDraw samurai techniques
I would love to practice trakata.
would it be trakata if a double bladed lightsaber user switch between single blade and double blade during a fight just for defense or when going full offensive
Juyo and Vaapad I was familiar with before, but hadn't heard of Trakata before. I can see why, though while it's seen uncommon use, it can come in handy at the right times.
Very funny to hear Maul using mainly Juyu V. Kenobi & Qui Gon.. He's fighting defensively in that battle for the most part...
I guess it might not specifically be considered Takata but I recall a Jedi in I think 'Legends' that had a unique saber where the blade length could be altered shorter or longer pretty much on demand. I don't recall the specifics so you may have actually mentioned him xD It was just one that always struck me as interesting and I often wondered why similar tactics weren't used more often. Glad Takata exists as an explanation of why.
cant vader's saber do that?
@@Solid_Snail Yeah, apparently it can xD I had thought it was pretty unique but I've been watching more lightsaber videos recently since youtube is recommending them xD
Vaapad is the superior form
The Corran duel description was missing a piece. Corran had brought his lightsaber up next to his temple near his eye with the blade pointed at his Vong opponent, the tip pointing at the Vong eye. Corran then toggled his lightsaber power source from one stone to another. Instantly, the length and width of his saber. The longer saber impaled the eye of the hot blooded Vong. If I’m mistaken on which duel you are describing, but this one sticks out in my mind
I would practice vapaad simply because of its origin. It was inspired by a creature and beasts don’t necessarily always harbor hate or rage.
Vaapad has always been my favorite but in my personal training I use Makashi and was learning a little JuYo for a bit
I love how Takata is basically:
Jedi : unsportsmanlike
Sigh : no balls
Vapaad I'm already good at retaining emotional control over my anger. I can only guess what using the force would require but I can garenty my dedication to learning what might as well be an illusion when fighting others
My answer at the end is Vaapad.
Trakata is also used in one of the Old Republic Trailers with Vaylin and her Mother. Would've loved to see that.
i would say that i would likely still take to the form 4 and 6 due to the double blade light saber i would use. while i see the advantage of using Trakata with a double blade and would likely use it i done see it being a all the time maneuver that i would use.
Not sure if this is cannon anymore but Palpatine was described as being a master of all 7 forms before.
I do MMA, and the principals of melee combat are pretty much universal no matter what weapon you use, if youre even using one. I personally would heavily lean on trakata. Misdirection and deception in the heat of combat are so powerful. Make your opponent think youre doing something you arent, leaving them open, then go for a direct hit. Like feinting a jab to the face, prompting them to block high, then hit them with a hard low cross to the solar plexus. Half of my IRL moveset is feinting into a heavy powershot.
Corran Horn specifically used an old-fashioned dual phase saber that contained the systems for two separate lightsabers each set to a different length allowing him to switch between them as needed
The younglingslay combat form is one to rule them all!
maybe i missed it, but if you didnt mentioned it. Takata is tricky cause when your blades are locked you cant deactivate your lightsaber cause the energy of the other one keeps it active.
Trakata with a dual-phase lightsaber would be trolling at its finest. Especially if we were to go with legends lore where the crystal determines the lightsaber colour and go with a clear lightsaber.
Which is why I firmly believe that Anakin should have learned Vapaad from Windu.
A hybrid of Djem-so/Shien and Vapaad would have been deadly.
I think Windu sensed too much anger inside of anakin to let him go even closer to the dark side.
Vaapad combined with Maces Shatterpoint is unbeatable.
yo this is gonna be insane
Vaapad would be ideal for me to practice, focus on the battle at hand just focusing on winning while deflecting the opponent’s darkside force and using it against them sounds something I would love to practice.
Quote from John Wick:
He’s the one you send to kill the Boogeyman
On the topic of Juyo's passion-driven offensive style, a fun fact is that Darth Bane was a master of Juyo. He used it a lot, and eventually moved to an even more offensive style called Djem that had NO defensive moves at all. He relied on his orbalisk 'armor' to protect him from the blows he would suffer due to this lack of defense. Djed made him a HORRIFYING opponent because every move he made was offensive, every attack could be the last thing his opponent saw.
Sith: You Jedi are a bunch of nerds
Windu: I am rubber, you are glue
Takata, because it deals with practicality, instead of the intensity of Juyio Varient. Or even the Vapad with its redirecting of power back at the source.
I would probably use Vaapad and Niman.
Windu: Uses Vapad to fight
without using his mind. 9:59
*knocking noises from the door*
“Hey! It’s me, Goku!”
Vaapad would be something I'd want to learn, along with seresu, and probably trakata. If you are in a saber duel and not doing anything to win, including deception, then you are doing it wrong. After all warfare is deception and if the jedi can't or wont understand that then they had no business leading a war.
Corran Horn also lengthened and shortened his blade as needed during battles. He would go to roughly twice the normal length at times in order to secure an advantage. For him, survival was far more important (at that time) than being "sporting".
As a Jedi I would absolutely employ trakata without hesitation- practicality is of maximum importance to a sentinel.
trakata: the only form used by grey force users; because they're more enlightened than either side, and realize it's a form which merely requires a strategic mind to use.
vapaad, mace windu is one of my favourite characters in fiction, so that enough would convince me to learn it
Senya from the old republic uses trakata quite well. 'Betrayed' cinematic The Old Republic.