So much good information! My husband and I went to a fundraiser about a year ago where the Emerson's spoke and we were very disturbed by what we heard. Good to know we aren't the only ones concerned.
Ugh. All Christians are commanded to call out wickedness and rebuke ( Luke 17: 3) among other verses to call out people who are wicked. Staying quiet in the face of sin does not hold sinners accountbale and allow them their opportunity to repent. It's sick how they think it's okay to let men sin and women to be quiet about it. Reprobates in particular are to be shunned and exiled from a Christian community.
It's amazing to me how women with "daddy issues" are such a trope - you know, she may be promiscuous or make poor relationship choices (all things that primarily harm her), when it's men with "daddy issues" like Emerson Eggerichs that harm the people they claim to love, as well as congregations, communities, and countries.
Wow! Good episode. I pray for people to be open to hearing why “Love and Respect” is harmful and for it not to become a popular book. My friend and I have had conversations about the book and I’ve sent her things. She said she thinks her in-laws read the book. I hope and pray they can listen with open mind.
46:58 his advice on quietness DOES NOT WORK. A bully won’t develop a tender heart ❤bc you go quiet 🤐. NO! He’ll be HAPPY!! He probably has extremely little emotional awareness. Plus, this author pressures abused women to keep giving their husbands frequent sex. Now, this author has silenced 🤫 her; her abuser is delighted!! No wonder men love this book.
Mine once told me that he used to deliberately push my buttons to make me upset. He wanted me to cry so that I'd leave him alone. He would then spend the next few days avoiding me, happy as a clam. Yeah, some of the marriage advice directed to wives just doesn't work on many men.
I think one of the root problems with the use of Scripture in "Love and Respect" is the underlying idea of a "Judeo-Christian society," which in practice gives its adherents license to pick and choose verses from the Old Testament to form society the way that they wish. Instead of a proper reading of Scripture, where Christ is at the center and everything else is either a precursor or practical interpretation of His teachings with particular contexts in mind (which may or may not apply to us now, hence why we need to consider historical and social backgrounds and reexamine through the lens of Christ), a "Judeo-Christian" reading allows people in power to set aside any of the difficult teachings of Jesus while still claiming the Christian title. Also, the example from Esther being used as biblical support for marriage advice (something which I once unconsciously accepted, I'm ashamed to say) is just sad. When Christian marriage advice draws on the decree of a drunk, pagan king who essentially ordered his wife to come out and strip in front of his nobles, there is something seriously wrong with the writer's understanding of biblical reading.
I see no evidence in the text of Esther that Vashti was ordered to strip. That doesn't change the fact that Ahasuerus treated her abominably, and, in fact, expresses regret later in the book. Unless we can provide corroborating evidence of some sort, and cite our sources for good measure, we should refrain from stating anything not stated plainly in the text. Interestingly, by the time we get to the end of the Book of Esther, it's Esther herself who gets to institute the holiday of Purim with nary a peep from Ahasuerus. Most Bible teachers don't even think of that one!😁
@@fluffythepitbull I am exaggerating a bit, but some scholars and commentators believe that the text implies that when Ahasuerus orders Vashti to appear "wearing her royal crown," he means wearing _only_ her crown, hence her refusal.
1 Peter 3 is NOT just addressing unsaved husbands, but actually DISOBEDIENT husbands. Just a small nuance but still important. Also, you are right that Adam wasn't in trouble for listening to Eve, but neither was it "listening to Eve and eating the fruit " but for disobeying God.
How do I get this report? My husband and I went through this and I didn’t feel comfortable with it in several areas of the series of the Love and Respect. The book was so repetitive that had to put it down.
Really? Being condemned to toil for basic survival until you die (and by the way, you are now going to die) and experiencing strife with the ones closest to you isn't a curse?
Roman and Greek society may have been pagan, but they were not killing their wives in the way that middle eastern cultures are allowed to kill their wives. Roman and Greek cultures were Extremely progressive for the day, and much of their cultural beliefs and norms still pervade our society.
This has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. We're neither Roman nor fundamentalist Muslims. We are Jesus followers, and Jesus tells us to love one another.
43:40 I must disagree that the abolitionist arguments were "less biblical" than the pro-slavery arguments. By the time the African slave trade began, Christians in Europe had solidified the idea that it was wrong to hold other Christians in permanent bondage. This idea can be traced to Philemon, where Paul sends Onesimus to Philemon, telling him to treat him as a fellow believer and as Paul's "son," while offering himself up to pay whatever Onesimus might owe; though Paul never _tells_ Philemon to set Onesimus free, it's clear that he wants him to do so. There are also numerous statements throughout the New Testament speaking to the equality of all people in Christ and the importance of spreading the gospel. Paul's writings to slaves must also be remembered in a context where many are debt slaves or prisoners of war, and many are owned by non-Christians with the authority to have them killed if they see fit. The African slave trade was an entirely different issue. Here, enslavement was actually hampering evangelistic efforts because slave owners feared they would have to set their Christian slaves free after a time, so theologians and pastors came up with all kinds of convoluted theological arguments to justify the Africans being an inferior/cursed race (which the Bible does not support) and claims that Europeans were somehow "civilizing" them by forcing them to do hard labor and refusing to let them become literate. These arguments fall apart under logical and theological scrutiny, and many require prooftexting like Eggerichs is doing here.
I'm puzzled by the "ignores Jesus" comments. Are you suggesting that the rest of Scripture is not as authoritative as when Jesus is specifically speaking? I'm asking. I don't fully follow what the argument is here - 13:00
I’m going to start my comment by saying I am not a bible theologian or a pastor or anything, but this is what I know and believe: we are called to follow Christ’s example. It’s where the term “Christian” comes from. It means little Christ. Now, they are not saying that the words of Paul or Peter or any of the other apostles should be brushed aside, but how we interpret them should be held up to the actions and example of Jesus. So for example when Christians read about what Paul says about marriage and women, we should ask how did Jesus treat women? Would He approve of subjugating women? Would he tell a woman that she just needs to take her husband’s ill-treatment of her? Because this is what teachers like Emerson Eldredge do. They tell women who are being mistreated that their marriage is more precious to God than their wellbeing. So Jesus needs to be the mirror that we hold scripture up to. I hope this helps this make more sense.
@@brighidmcmullen9577 but this goes against what Jesus himself says about Scripture. That's the issue. Jesus is the Word incarnate. All Scripture, including the words of Peter and Paul, are inspired by God.
@@vascobroma8907 I said how we interpret it. We can all interpret the meaning of their words differently, it’s how we ended up with so many denominations because one group interpreted a passage one way and another group disagreed.
@@brighidmcmullen9577 the fact that different interpretations exist doesn't make them all valid. This really isn't an issue on which there is any confusion. It comes down to a matter of you believe Jesus' words, or you don't.
“And interestingly, it repeatedly happens in a way in which men are given authority over women.” @27:30 Does the Bible not say that men have authority over women? (IE the husband has authority over the wife)
No. The only time authority in marriage is explicitly mentioned in the New Testament is in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5, and the authority is perfectly mutual. The word for "head" is often assumed to be about authority, but it is not. In Greek there is a word for head that means authority, but that is NOT the word that Paul chooses to use. He uses a word that is more about unity. So, no, the Bible does not say that husbands have authority over wives.
Why do you believe God’s model for marriage is one that oppresses women. People like you have a Spirit of misogyny . And you like to use the word of God to defend your misogyny.
My wife adores me and it has all happened since I watched, and paid attention to, a love and respect video. Good luck carving out a niche for people uninterested in applying the simple principles for men and women.
I'm glad your marriage is doing well. Do you think that means that it's okay for Eggerichs to misuse Scripture like this, distort verses, edit out whole phrases and contexts, and ignore context altogether?
I have never encountered this book in the UK. Most used marriage book in US churches? Yikes It is beyond horrific, yes totally abusing the Bible. He starts with his conclusion it seems and I agree he just seems to have searched keywords. The whole putting in Bible verses for the sky is blue type cases just screams out insecurity - if I don't put in a reference every paragraph people won't listen to me, I need to look more studied. As a preacher I urge people to question me and question what the Bible says, to think for themselves and not take what other people say or write as true because I went to seminary and they didn't - it doesn't make me right. The comment from his history suggests where he learned these patterns, but for this book to get published lots of people enabled his spreading of this oppression, and FotF bear a lot of that, but so do all the people promoting, recommending and giving copies. Women never say anything important in the Bible? Women at the resurrection, woman at the well 'come see the man who told me everything about my life, can he be the messiah?' 1hr - so he basically says you can't tell a woman anything with out them getting offended, when this whole book is about how he can't handle the idea of any woman even mentioning any issues at all, he is the snowflake.
So much good information! My husband and I went to a fundraiser about a year ago where the Emerson's spoke and we were very disturbed by what we heard. Good to know we aren't the only ones concerned.
Ugh. All Christians are commanded to call out wickedness and rebuke ( Luke 17: 3) among other verses to call out people who are wicked. Staying quiet in the face of sin does not hold sinners accountbale and allow them their opportunity to repent. It's sick how they think it's okay to let men sin and women to be quiet about it. Reprobates in particular are to be shunned and exiled from a Christian community.
It's amazing to me how women with "daddy issues" are such a trope - you know, she may be promiscuous or make poor relationship choices (all things that primarily harm her), when it's men with "daddy issues" like Emerson Eggerichs that harm the people they claim to love, as well as congregations, communities, and countries.
"Abusive husbands are not a form of hair shirt." Gotta write that one down!
So true! Love that quote!
That was my favorite quote!
Wow! Good episode. I pray for people to be open to hearing why “Love and Respect” is harmful and for it not to become a popular book. My friend and I have had conversations about the book and I’ve sent her things. She said she thinks her in-laws read the book. I hope and pray they can listen with open mind.
46:58 his advice on quietness DOES NOT WORK. A bully won’t develop a tender heart ❤bc you go quiet 🤐. NO! He’ll be HAPPY!! He probably has extremely little emotional awareness. Plus, this author pressures abused women to keep giving their husbands frequent sex. Now, this author has silenced 🤫 her; her abuser is delighted!! No wonder men love this book.
Mine once told me that he used to deliberately push my buttons to make me upset. He wanted me to cry so that I'd leave him alone. He would then spend the next few days avoiding me, happy as a clam. Yeah, some of the marriage advice directed to wives just doesn't work on many men.
@@JenniferG-jm4rhThey know it doesn't; it just keeps wives subjugated, which is the main goal.
I think one of the root problems with the use of Scripture in "Love and Respect" is the underlying idea of a "Judeo-Christian society," which in practice gives its adherents license to pick and choose verses from the Old Testament to form society the way that they wish. Instead of a proper reading of Scripture, where Christ is at the center and everything else is either a precursor or practical interpretation of His teachings with particular contexts in mind (which may or may not apply to us now, hence why we need to consider historical and social backgrounds and reexamine through the lens of Christ), a "Judeo-Christian" reading allows people in power to set aside any of the difficult teachings of Jesus while still claiming the Christian title.
Also, the example from Esther being used as biblical support for marriage advice (something which I once unconsciously accepted, I'm ashamed to say) is just sad. When Christian marriage advice draws on the decree of a drunk, pagan king who essentially ordered his wife to come out and strip in front of his nobles, there is something seriously wrong with the writer's understanding of biblical reading.
That's really insightful!
I see no evidence in the text of Esther that Vashti was ordered to strip. That doesn't change the fact that Ahasuerus treated her abominably, and, in fact, expresses regret later in the book. Unless we can provide corroborating evidence of some sort, and cite our sources for good measure, we should refrain from stating anything not stated plainly in the text. Interestingly, by the time we get to the end of the Book of Esther, it's Esther herself who gets to institute the holiday of Purim with nary a peep from Ahasuerus. Most Bible teachers don't even think of that one!😁
@@fluffythepitbull I am exaggerating a bit, but some scholars and commentators believe that the text implies that when Ahasuerus orders Vashti to appear "wearing her royal crown," he means wearing _only_ her crown, hence her refusal.
1 Peter 3 is NOT just addressing unsaved husbands, but actually DISOBEDIENT husbands. Just a small nuance but still important.
Also, you are right that Adam wasn't in trouble for listening to Eve, but neither was it "listening to Eve and eating the fruit " but for disobeying God.
Well done! ❤
How do I get this report? My husband and I went through this and I didn’t feel comfortable with it in several areas of the series of the Love and Respect. The book was so repetitive that had to put it down.
BTW, Adam wasn't cursed. God cursed the ground, not Adam.
Really? Being condemned to toil for basic survival until you die (and by the way, you are now going to die) and experiencing strife with the ones closest to you isn't a curse?
Just foumd tis after doing some research about this author. Quick question for you Sheila, do you lean complementarian or egalitarian? Just curious ;)
Speaking of the epistles he says, “So you kind of have to say, ‘what of this is actually from God?’”
😳
Eves voice wasn’t the problem. But that he chose her voice over Gods.
Roman and Greek society may have been pagan, but they were not killing their wives in the way that middle eastern cultures are allowed to kill their wives. Roman and Greek cultures were Extremely progressive for the day, and much of their cultural beliefs and norms still pervade our society.
This has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. We're neither Roman nor fundamentalist Muslims. We are Jesus followers, and Jesus tells us to love one another.
I was responding to your comment around 47:30.
43:40 I must disagree that the abolitionist arguments were "less biblical" than the pro-slavery arguments. By the time the African slave trade began, Christians in Europe had solidified the idea that it was wrong to hold other Christians in permanent bondage. This idea can be traced to Philemon, where Paul sends Onesimus to Philemon, telling him to treat him as a fellow believer and as Paul's "son," while offering himself up to pay whatever Onesimus might owe; though Paul never _tells_ Philemon to set Onesimus free, it's clear that he wants him to do so. There are also numerous statements throughout the New Testament speaking to the equality of all people in Christ and the importance of spreading the gospel. Paul's writings to slaves must also be remembered in a context where many are debt slaves or prisoners of war, and many are owned by non-Christians with the authority to have them killed if they see fit.
The African slave trade was an entirely different issue. Here, enslavement was actually hampering evangelistic efforts because slave owners feared they would have to set their Christian slaves free after a time, so theologians and pastors came up with all kinds of convoluted theological arguments to justify the Africans being an inferior/cursed race (which the Bible does not support) and claims that Europeans were somehow "civilizing" them by forcing them to do hard labor and refusing to let them become literate. These arguments fall apart under logical and theological scrutiny, and many require prooftexting like Eggerichs is doing here.
I'm puzzled by the "ignores Jesus" comments. Are you suggesting that the rest of Scripture is not as authoritative as when Jesus is specifically speaking? I'm asking. I don't fully follow what the argument is here - 13:00
I’m going to start my comment by saying I am not a bible theologian or a pastor or anything, but this is what I know and believe: we are called to follow Christ’s example. It’s where the term “Christian” comes from. It means little Christ. Now, they are not saying that the words of Paul or Peter or any of the other apostles should be brushed aside, but how we interpret them should be held up to the actions and example of Jesus. So for example when Christians read about what Paul says about marriage and women, we should ask how did Jesus treat women? Would He approve of subjugating women? Would he tell a woman that she just needs to take her husband’s ill-treatment of her? Because this is what teachers like Emerson Eldredge do. They tell women who are being mistreated that their marriage is more precious to God than their wellbeing. So Jesus needs to be the mirror that we hold scripture up to. I hope this helps this make more sense.
@@brighidmcmullen9577 but this goes against what Jesus himself says about Scripture. That's the issue. Jesus is the Word incarnate. All Scripture, including the words of Peter and Paul, are inspired by God.
@@vascobroma8907 I said how we interpret it. We can all interpret the meaning of their words differently, it’s how we ended up with so many denominations because one group interpreted a passage one way and another group disagreed.
@@brighidmcmullen9577 the fact that different interpretations exist doesn't make them all valid. This really isn't an issue on which there is any confusion. It comes down to a matter of you believe Jesus' words, or you don't.
“I’m named for the Apostle Joanna.” @14:39
Was she an apostle?? I don’t think so.
Junia is another form of the same name Joanna, and Junia was named as an apostle in Romans 16.
“And interestingly, it repeatedly happens in a way in which men are given authority over women.” @27:30
Does the Bible not say that men have authority over women? (IE the husband has authority over the wife)
No. The only time authority in marriage is explicitly mentioned in the New Testament is in 1 Corinthians 7:3-5, and the authority is perfectly mutual. The word for "head" is often assumed to be about authority, but it is not. In Greek there is a word for head that means authority, but that is NOT the word that Paul chooses to use. He uses a word that is more about unity. So, no, the Bible does not say that husbands have authority over wives.
Women with the spirit of Jezebel take issue with God's design for marriage ... tisk tisk !!
Thank you for proving my point about the misuses of the "spirit of Jezebel." this is a great example and I'll update my post with it.
Why do you believe God’s model for marriage is one that oppresses women. People like you have a Spirit of misogyny . And you like to use the word of God to defend your misogyny.
My wife adores me and it has all happened since I watched, and paid attention to, a love and respect video. Good luck carving out a niche for people uninterested in applying the simple principles for men and women.
I'm glad your marriage is doing well. Do you think that means that it's okay for Eggerichs to misuse Scripture like this, distort verses, edit out whole phrases and contexts, and ignore context altogether?
I have never encountered this book in the UK. Most used marriage book in US churches? Yikes
It is beyond horrific, yes totally abusing the Bible. He starts with his conclusion it seems and I agree he just seems to have searched keywords. The whole putting in Bible verses for the sky is blue type cases just screams out insecurity - if I don't put in a reference every paragraph people won't listen to me, I need to look more studied.
As a preacher I urge people to question me and question what the Bible says, to think for themselves and not take what other people say or write as true because I went to seminary and they didn't - it doesn't make me right.
The comment from his history suggests where he learned these patterns, but for this book to get published lots of people enabled his spreading of this oppression, and FotF bear a lot of that, but so do all the people promoting, recommending and giving copies.
Women never say anything important in the Bible? Women at the resurrection, woman at the well 'come see the man who told me everything about my life, can he be the messiah?'
1hr - so he basically says you can't tell a woman anything with out them getting offended, when this whole book is about how he can't handle the idea of any woman even mentioning any issues at all, he is the snowflake.
Amen