This conversation is just so beautiful. His enthusiasm for the value of his sisters in Christ and the way he lit up when he realized the worth and value of his wife just made me tear up.
I'm in UK but when staying in the USA a woman Christian asked me if my husband 'allowed' me to drive!!! This is the extent this bizarre teaching takes people!! 😮😮
This was such a great podcast conversation! Terran Williams' book sounds so good. I look forward to reading it and adding it to my library of books on this topic.
Codification and ossification is EXACTLY what they want. They would say they're preserving the integrity of Scripture. Change is, in this thinking, sign of drift and societal "infection." It's terribly disheartening to someone trying to hear God.
It’s just strange to me that they think that their iteration is identical to the first century church … that only now things are changing? Because clearly Christian cultural values have been absolutely static for the last two millennia. (Yes, that’s sarcasm, directed at them, not you.) It’s beyond me that they focus so hard on Paul’s attempts to maneuver within the Roman world that they miss how Jesus treated women … and basically His whole Sermon on the Mount.
@@8784-l3b I agree, but I can’t tell you how often I’ve gone rounds with people in their attempts to reconcile the reality of Deborah to their interpretation of Paul’s words while also acknowledging that God neither changes nor makes mistakes. The cognitive dissonance is strong.
@@rivendells_shona They can't believe that Paul could have taught falsely. Yet his teaching/order to Timothy resulted in Timothy losing his salvation...at least according to Paul. When someone (Paul) writes in scripture that he could, possibly, maybe, teach incorrectly, then it must be there for a reason. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! -excerpt Galatians 1 -words of Paul
@@8784-l3b I don’t recall a passage where Paul stated that Timothy lost his salvation. That being said, what always jumped out at me is that Paul explicitly stated, “ *I* do not permit a woman to teach”. He never claimed that God did not-and this, to me, is more evidence of a specific context to which Paul was addressing (not a generality). I don’t believe Paul was “teaching falsely” because I don’t believe Paul was always speaking in blanket statements. I do believe we also lose a lot in translation (in more ways than one), in no small part because English is a really bastardized language. But I digress…
How does a husband lead? He is a servant. Paul tells men to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. Jesus was the ultimate servant. He came to serve and not be served. Leading may mean the husband cooks his wife a meal when she's too tired to cook (or sick) or feeds the newborn so his wife can get sleep.
Just believe what Paul instructed to Timothy about Church structure and God's order based on Genesis... if we change the Scriptures we are to be cursed and if we do not believe what Scripture states we are not Christ-ians. Jesus humbled Himself as a servant to wash our feet but He is still Lord of all...
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin.
Funny how Jesus never noted that the man is the boss. I know, Paul, Paul, but Paul was just an evangelist. He could tell people about Christ and how to implement Christ's teachings, but he couldn't create doctrine. Sorry, all those "man is the boss" verses are misinterpretations. Taking scripture as a whole, they're a way of living out Christ's command to love one another. Many men, sadly, are slaves to their egos and can't accept this.
You mean these instructions about "church order"? 1Tim 3:1 This saying is reliable: if anyone has a goal to be a supervisor in the church, they want a good thing. 1Tim 3:2 So the church’s supervisor must be without fault. They should be faithful to their spouse, sober, modest, and honest. They should show hospitality and be skilled at teaching. 1Tim 3:3 They shouldn’t be addicted to alcohol or a bully. Instead they should be gentle, peaceable, and not greedy. 1Tim 3:4 They should manage their own household well-they should see that their children are obedient with complete respect, 1Tim 3:5 because if they don’t know how to manage their own household, how can they take care of God’s church? 1Tim 3:6 They shouldn’t be new believers so that they won’t become proud and fall under the devil’s spell. 1Tim 3:7 They should also have a good reputation with those outside the church so that they won’t be embarrassed and fall into the devil’s trap. 1Tim 3:8 In the same way, servants in the church should be dignified, not two-faced, heavy drinkers, or greedy for money. 1Tim 3:9 They should hold on to the faith that has been revealed with a clear conscience. 1Tim 3:10 They should also be tested and then serve if they are without fault. 1Tim 3:11 In the same way, women who are servants in the church should be dignified and not gossip. They should be sober and faithful in everything they do. 1Tim 3:12 Servants must be faithful to their spouse and manage their children and their own households well. 1Tim 3:13 Those who have served well gain a good standing and considerable confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus. Not seeing a problem there.
Yes! “The fundamentalist believes in the inerrancy of their INTERPRETATION of scripture!”
This conversation is just so beautiful. His enthusiasm for the value of his sisters in Christ and the way he lit up when he realized the worth and value of his wife just made me tear up.
Wonderful man. Not consumed with his own superiority and greatness, as so many Complementarian men are.
I'm in UK but when staying in the USA a woman Christian asked me if my husband 'allowed' me to drive!!! This is the extent this bizarre teaching takes people!! 😮😮
As an American woman whose been a Christian my whole life, I am stunned! I promise we're not all like that 😅
This was such a great podcast conversation! Terran Williams' book sounds so good. I look forward to reading it and adding it to my library of books on this topic.
I've got a stack at least 18 inches tall. 😀
Codification and ossification is EXACTLY what they want. They would say they're preserving the integrity of Scripture. Change is, in this thinking, sign of drift and societal "infection."
It's terribly disheartening to someone trying to hear God.
It’s just strange to me that they think that their iteration is identical to the first century church … that only now things are changing? Because clearly Christian cultural values have been absolutely static for the last two millennia. (Yes, that’s sarcasm, directed at them, not you.)
It’s beyond me that they focus so hard on Paul’s attempts to maneuver within the Roman world that they miss how Jesus treated women … and basically His whole Sermon on the Mount.
@@rivendells_shona
All this was settled at about 1100 B.C. Deborah.
I wrote a short and free essay on her should anyone have interest.
@@8784-l3b I agree, but I can’t tell you how often I’ve gone rounds with people in their attempts to reconcile the reality of Deborah to their interpretation of Paul’s words while also acknowledging that God neither changes nor makes mistakes. The cognitive dissonance is strong.
@@rivendells_shona
They can't believe that Paul could have taught falsely.
Yet his teaching/order to Timothy resulted in Timothy
losing his salvation...at least according to Paul.
When someone (Paul) writes in scripture that he
could, possibly, maybe, teach incorrectly, then it
must be there for a reason.
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
-excerpt Galatians 1
-words of Paul
@@8784-l3b I don’t recall a passage where Paul stated that Timothy lost his salvation.
That being said, what always jumped out at me is that Paul explicitly stated, “ *I* do not permit a woman to teach”. He never claimed that God did not-and this, to me, is more evidence of a specific context to which Paul was addressing (not a generality).
I don’t believe Paul was “teaching falsely” because I don’t believe Paul was always speaking in blanket statements. I do believe we also lose a lot in translation (in more ways than one), in no small part because English is a really bastardized language.
But I digress…
I'm binging these videos. This is so germane for my current situation. I am so thankful for this interview.
LOVE the new haircut/color! An angled, layered cut really enhances and keeps it fresh, Sheila! :)
Thank you!
Thoroughly enjoyed this interview!
What a great interview! Can't wait to read Taryn's book. I love that he uses the term mutualist.
Terran
This is so encouraging!!
How does a husband lead? He is a servant. Paul tells men to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. Jesus was the ultimate servant. He came to serve and not be served. Leading may mean the husband cooks his wife a meal when she's too tired to cook (or sick) or feeds the newborn so his wife can get sleep.
Mike winger is mistaken on many issues.
reminds me of amy byrds book why cant we be friends
On a side note I love the hair! ❤
30:02 talks about how she suppressed herself because of theology that taught he's the leader
This is truly a man who sees women as a equall☺️
47:52
You are looking good with your new haircut Sheila
Just believe what Paul instructed to Timothy about Church structure and God's order based on Genesis... if we change the Scriptures we are to be cursed and if we do not believe what Scripture states we are not Christ-ians. Jesus humbled Himself as a servant to wash our feet but He is still Lord of all...
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin.
"God's order based on Genesis" which was equal. Both were made in God's image and both were given the command to fill the earth and take care of it.
Funny how Jesus never noted that the man is the boss. I know, Paul, Paul, but Paul was just an evangelist. He could tell people about Christ and how to implement Christ's teachings, but he couldn't create doctrine. Sorry, all those "man is the boss" verses are misinterpretations. Taking scripture as a whole, they're a way of living out Christ's command to love one another. Many men, sadly, are slaves to their egos and can't accept this.
You mean these instructions about "church order"?
1Tim 3:1 This saying is reliable: if anyone has a goal to be a supervisor in the church, they want a good thing.
1Tim 3:2 So the church’s supervisor must be without fault. They should be faithful to their spouse, sober, modest, and honest. They should show hospitality and be skilled at teaching.
1Tim 3:3 They shouldn’t be addicted to alcohol or a bully. Instead they should be gentle, peaceable, and not greedy.
1Tim 3:4 They should manage their own household well-they should see that their children are obedient with complete respect,
1Tim 3:5 because if they don’t know how to manage their own household, how can they take care of God’s church?
1Tim 3:6 They shouldn’t be new believers so that they won’t become proud and fall under the devil’s spell.
1Tim 3:7 They should also have a good reputation with those outside the church so that they won’t be embarrassed and fall into the devil’s trap.
1Tim 3:8 In the same way, servants in the church should be dignified, not two-faced, heavy drinkers, or greedy for money.
1Tim 3:9 They should hold on to the faith that has been revealed with a clear conscience.
1Tim 3:10 They should also be tested and then serve if they are without fault.
1Tim 3:11 In the same way, women who are servants in the church should be dignified and not gossip. They should be sober and faithful in everything they do.
1Tim 3:12 Servants must be faithful to their spouse and manage their children and their own households well.
1Tim 3:13 Those who have served well gain a good standing and considerable confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
Not seeing a problem there.
@@Himmiefan No need to denigrate Paul. Some of the most explicit pro-women passages are in Paul's letters.
Ngl, at first glance, I read “sets out” as “sells out”. Yay for Freudian slips of the brain… 🤔😏
Terran, why so glum? Do try to cheer up and perk up a bit. 😛
Let’s hope this guy finds orthodoxy
In what way do you find him heterodox?
Absolutely amazing interview