How The Authors We Critiqued Responded to The Great Sex Rescue - Episode 156
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- Links to things mentioned:
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The blog post where I include links for everything I talked about, plus write out the email we sent to Gary Thomas:
baremarriage.c...
I think some people are seeing this movement as a negative feminist movement, which is very unfortunate! There is nothing wrong with women standing up for themselves and demanding that women be treated better and biblically. I believe Jesus is very grieved by the teachings that have been whirling around for years, hurting many men and women, marriages and kids! The tide is turning, and you women are a huge part of it. God bless you guys for the work, the love, the listening, the respect, and guidance are offering women today.♥️
this is the feminism that is needed the progressive movement back to its roots of enlightenment using science to debunk conservative lies
Ladies, “PEOPLE” may not be listening to you, but let’s be very plain: PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO YOU!! And we are being helped by the research, the stats, the teaching - in general, all of it. Forget the naysayers. WE hear you, and WE are sharing this stuff with our friends, spreading the word. Ultimately, THIS is what will make the difference.
Carry on. ❤️😁
your email at the end is so powerful, clear and strong whilst gentle pleading.
Those who defend bad teaching leave 2 types of victims - those directly impacted by the teaching; and those who shake the dust off their feet and leave all faith because of toxic teachings
Your email to Gary is amazing. Made me cry.
You're very brave to have set out on this project & now dealing with the aftermath. Keep up the great work!
As someone who has been through a lot of church drama, both the leadership kind and the interpersonal kind, I’m glad you gals are dealing with this in gracious biblical terms. It makes a LOT of squishy people uncomfortable.
Wow that hit hard 29:00 when Sheila said we just want the authors to think about these women too. You guys have a platform to make other women’s voices heard. You guys have a platform to tell the world what honoring your spouse and having an intimate, Jesus-centered relationship looks like and I just … I see your hearts and I think you all are doing a beautiful thing. Much love to y’all 🌻
That part made me cry. All we want is to be heard and understood. 😢
The truth that challenges long held beliefs is bound to be challenged, critiqued or ignored. It affects status quo. The good news is that what you are advocating will soon become self evident. Thank you for being brave, honest and true to true biblical teaching. I am sure the heavens and many of us who really hear you are rejoicing with you. Captives are being set free and the name of Christ is being honored in one of the most critical institutions in our lives - marriage union. God Bless you
Thank you both!!!! Keep speaking out!! Praying for you ladies, for all of us. ♥️♥️♥️♥️
I love Gary, I love all these people because they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. I pray, pray, pray that God would soften their hearts towards every male and female abuse victim. So many people are hurting within their marriage or after needing to have a life-saving divorce. 😢 It BREAKS my heart.
It is also upsetting that a Christ-centered man isn't listening to actual women who have been abused so they have very real situations and experiences of the harm that's come to them and many people aren't listening 😢
Thanks for listening, ladies. ❤
"Lord when did we not feed you, visit you, minister to you?.... when you didn't do it to the least of these". Lord may the scales of pride fall off their eyes and ears and be humble enough, manly enough, woman enough to say "I was wrong!"
Apparently Shaunti Feldhahn has forgotten about Galatians 2:11-14 _(NIV)_ in her conception of "biblical correction":
_When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray._
_When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?_
And let's not forget that at this point in his ministry, Paul was small potatoes compared to Peter, who was in Christ's inner circle.
Keep listening to God and speaking for the vulnerable❤The Kingdom way is to call out people publicly against doctrine that leads others astray: When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. Galatians 2:11 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all...
Galatians 2:14. Helping influential teachers is not more important than helping the vulnerable: And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)-those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me.Galatians 2:6
Oh you lovely brave souls, standing up for the hurting women, it is so admirable and you are spot on so keep up this Great rescue!
The pious and twisted language that some of the people that have written harmful books use has literally made me sick to my stomach! To call out a trauma from your past to explain as why you are doing this "terrible" (wonderful) work is absolutely mind boggling! Can it not be seen that their own trauma is probably the reason that they can't take responsibility?! This my friend is projection at its finest! It's crystal clear that what those people are dealing with is a gigantic dose of pride! I think it would probably be wise for me to stop now... Just know that I have only heard good things about your book so we've got your back!
One more thing... years ago I bought the Every Man's Battle CD but before it could be used it burnt in a fire, probably saving a young impressionable mind... 💞
Your name is Brahman Atma. Do you follow Jesus or just your own ideas?
Spot on!
I don't believe any of these authors are "good willed". They fully believe and participate in the power-over model as is made evident by their refusal to be held accountable and repent. Furthermore they display the entitlement they teach by their toxic responses to godly correction.
The difference between the wheat and the tares is the wheat will eventually bow its head. I can't fathom that any of these abuse enablers understand the heart of Jesus or hear from the Holy Spirit.
Thank God for the passion, compassion, and authenticity of those in the Wray-Gregoirian ministry.
You truly demonstrate grace AND truth.
50:01 Flash your breasts to reset power balances? What the trout does that even mean?!
Lol, I think there are "useful idiots" out there but it isn't y'all! That GT talks about them being used for a system that oppressed them, well, that's some irony for you.
There's a whole lot of DARVO going on by these authors, etc.
Y'all ladies are amazing, but that new (to me) info about Joanna... she's a rock-star!!! Extra thank you to her for powering through in so many humongous ways to produce this work in order to help others! Major respect!
Hey Sheila! I am really, really appreciating your content and it's giving me a lot to think and pray about. I also watch Ruslan's videos and I've heard him say some things about sex that have REALLY, DEEPLY worried me and I've been trying to comment about you. He often does interviews and conversations with people and I think it could be so fruitful to collaborate! 🙏 I love you both and pray for God's blessing and wisdom and that we may edify one another and build each other up in love as Paul says the body does when working properly. 😩🙏 this is my cry to God
Hi, I just found this podcast and also watch Ruslan. What has he said about sex that worried you? Still finishing this video but I would like to see a collaboration between Sheila and Ruslan if it can encourage and help their viewers.
@@cristidormiendo5743 Hi there, I think a collaboration is likely to be helpful! 🙏 May God's will be done.
But to answer your question, Ruslan said, "if you're marrying a virgin it's gonna hurt for a while". What that implies to me is that it's normal and acceptable for women to have long-term sexual pain, and it's simply to be tolerated. There's no mention of potential causes or remedies, rather I just find his advice vague enough that it's not really helpful for real-life situations.
Oh and it's from a video entitled, "Unpopular SECRET That May CHALLENGE Newlyweds".
Thank you both so much for this
Ok so… I actually really liked “The Meaning of Marriage” when I read it years ago. Both my now husband and I have read it. I honestly don’t even remember the part about painful sex .. it must not have made an impression. But I do remember talking to mentors and our marriage counselors before the wedding/wedding night and getting our counsel from them. We thankfully got sound counsel. The only book I remember doing real harm to me was “For Young Women Only”.. I read that when I was still very young and impressionable. It definitely fed me a lot of mistrust of men, and promoted rape culture.
I love you both and what you are doing. My future (first, only) marriage will be blessed because of you. I will properly love my wife because of you. Many thanks! Bless!
Can y’all please do an episode on how Christian counselors can do some serious damage to survivors? I’ve been told by more than 1 that I have to forgive my abusers or I’ll never heal…… I don’t think I’m obligated to forgive a person who won’t admit guilt or has never asked for forgiveness and those counselors heaped a giant guilt trip on me that I can’t do that which is victim shaming, no??
Of course you can't do that, no one can. Only through Christ you can and be free from it.
Nowhere in the Bible does God forgive unrepentant sinners or abusers. His wrath was upon them in the OT. He calls the more evil ones reprobates and children of Baal whose conscience is seared with a hot iron and they are to be turned over to their debased minds and avoided ( Romans). The bible is clear forgiveness for those is if they repent ( Luke 17:3). And of course show fruits of such repentance. In Levitivus abusers had to give their victims some form of financial restitution. Repentance to God only was if the person you wronged had died. I am not sure why the church preaches this love Dovie forgiveness nonsense for unprentant sinners and reprobates. What Jesus did say was love your enemies in actions like giving food or drink and not seeking revenge. But to someone on the level of reprobate. Reprobates were to be avoided ( which he did many times when the Pharisees tried to kill him). Not sure why the church preaches this forgiveness to abusers. Satanic devil doctrine if you ask me.
I would at least point out that Perel *does not say* affairs are good for marriages. He has stated explicitly she would not recommend an affair any more than she would recommend getting cancer. What she does say is that out of the affair, a deeper, better marriage relationship can emerge--which is no different than any therapist or even FOTF would say. Please see her TED talk for this as well as her written material.
That being said, keep up the great work you do. It is amazing!
Yes I found that these two also sort’ve misrepresented that.
Didn't do this in a kingdom way? Did any of these people read the letters where Paul openly called people out with boldness, honesty, and a take-no-prisoners approach?
Exactly.
Love your show. Thank you so so much. I am finding healing here.
The thing with you is: I came across one of your old UA-cam videos and was like 😅 But Sheila Gregoire is able to learn that that was harmful and to admit that and change the message 🤷🏻♀️ it was just have sex anyway even if you're tired because you won't be able to sleep and feel guilty if you don't 😅 I didn't finish the video 😬 I don't think you'd endorse that now just because there are women who are legitimately exhausted or have babies waking at night or whatever reasons. Harmful message! Oops. Now we know better 🤷🏻♀️ If sex is what they want then you'd think they'd be willing to learn better 😂
The fact that they care more about their profits than the people being hurt says a lot.
I’m seeing a theme here
BM Team addresses these people humbly
They reply in anger because they’re called out and proceed to defend themselves…instead of humbling themselves and repenting for the damage they caused.
Yep. Sounds exactly like what’s happening in the church right now. Gaslighting. Bypassing. All the things. 🤦🏾♂️
That’s interesting about “The Meaning of Marriage” by Timothy Keller. I haven’t read that book but my friend and her now husband did before getting married. I’ll have to ask her about that part in the book. I know for her, her wedding night was good, not saying it was the best sex, but there wasn’t pain really. Her and her husband also hold an egalitarian view of marriage. Like everyone else, I wish him and Kathy took this to heart and that it wasn’t an attack on them. And your right based on one of your other podcasts I don’t think Debra Fileta has ever talked about vaginismus and it needs to be named and talked about. We shouldn’t say sex will be painful because it shouldn’t be.
Also sad the other author and FOTF didn’t take your concerns to heart and hearing on how the messages might harm others, especially women. It wasn’t an attack on them but criticizing and questioning the teachings. As I’ve said, it feels so impossible to find a guy who believes in an egalitarian marriage and doesn’t believe in obligation sex, along with leaning progressive in many issues.
You want a man who “leans progressive” on many issues?
And now Gary Thomas is beating a retreat from social media and its criticism. He's Mrs. May from Flannery O'Connor's Greenleaf. THAT'S how he is the main character.
When Gary Thomas is talking about useful idiots and the description he gives sounds like a description of what he himself is doing!
Thank you for the work you're doing. May God bless you and the work.
You guys do good work. Thanx.
I'm sorry, there is a thing where mother's have to respect their sons because they're male!? seriously!? aaah! your content writes itself!
The more I learn from you lovely,intelligent ladies,the more I thank God that I'm an Atheist.
Didn't take part in the survey I've also been damaged by many of these books. Working my way out of an abusive marriage now
So sad. May God open their eyes.
You ladies are awesome
Great video
New to your channel. Are you guys familiar w/ Monica Cline? Her interview on Mama Bear Apologetics was heartbreaking to hear what planned parenthood is trying to teach/encourage kids (esp girls) about sex.
How about mutual consent between partners? Oh and by the way learn to pick up your own jock straps okay?
I want to hear more about what you guys love about Gift of Sex by the Penners! I’m single but I’ve been trying to heal my perspective on human sexuality & one of my friends sent what I later learned were portions of that book! For me it was just a book that got used in one of her courses at our college that she wanted to show to help me out.
The kingdom way - whose kingdom?? Theirs, not Jesus’!! ❤❤🤔
Contact The Holy Post I’m sure they’d interview you
Is there a list of your work that you have pulled?
The scripture in Isaiah was on point.
Did Eggerich ever post the findings of his request for stories from couples?
Not that I've ever seen, but I don't watch all of his stuff.
This could have been a very helpful & clarifying video & just went off the rails. Sorry for everyone involved. Reframing the sex conversation can be a very good thing but not feeling very trusting of the authors in question or the two in this video. I want to read your book but after watching this video and how a measured mother’s response started going off the rails with a daughters impassioned tirade I’m oh so hesitant. Your message is a good one I think, speak it well, do better. I believe your hearts are good and wanting something wonderful for couples, grateful for that.
It’s not sex the women are objecting to its bad sex. BAD sex is when the husband uses his wife’s body to satisfy himself with no respect no foreplay no consideration for her needs emotional spiritual and physical and wallows in his complete ignorance of women’s anatomy and the way a woman’s body works and the husband’s uncaring about all the elements of a joyful mutual intimacy God intends.❤❤❤
It’s more than bad sex; it’s PAINFUL sex.
I'm sorry your own words are libelous against you...
YES! Passive aggressive perfection 👌
I'm grateful for the summary of some real empirical data. There was data that allegedly supported that most married women had the best sex lives. The data you have showed, is in direct opposition to the supposed data on marital satisfaction. I would be interested to really know who is satisfied and who is not. It would seem to me that the only ones satisfied are white married men, with high professional jobs, lots of money, and lots of power with the ability to fund such studies. This would not fit with the majority demographic. I can't fathom the other demographics. Conservative Christianity seemingly has told us to quite complaining, suck it up and make our spouses happy regardless of what it costs us. Glad I left the church. I had enough of the abuse. Interestingly, the bible as read from Genesis to Revelation, speaks most about the relationship with YHWH, not sex. Sex is so minimally even mentioned. Personal responsibility and self control in obedience is what is mentioned consistently. Do not be given over to unbridled desires. Do not lust, or covet being at the root.
Most women consider sex quite a burden, especially when they are resentful towards their husband.
When you have a goodwill towards your spouse sex should be welcome anytime, it is for me.
I highly doubt single people are having better sex than married people.
1:02:45 I love the Great Sex Rescue, I really do. But reading Gary Thomas' blog posts which don't even use your names seems petty. He doesn't have to agree with everything you say in GSR for that post to not be about you. Maybe it is about you! But let him be weird and vague post - don't join him by blasting it to all your followers. Stuff like this makes it very hard for me to share your important work with others who would benefit from it.
Your summary of the story of GSR at the beginning was great and I wish it was a stand alone video. The rest of the video seems unnecessary to me. If any of the authors had retracted their previous teachings you would have shouted it from the rooftops, so I've just assumed none of them had. And you have already covered the responses of FOTF, Feldhan, Thomas, and others where they have dug their heals in.
2 hilarious
Barf bag please
I really appreciate you speaking into these issues. I'm quite uncomfortable with how public you are with this fight. I recognize that the prophets called out the national of Israel for their broken teachers, and Paul addressed specific false teachings in his letters. But those letters/words were to churches/a nation, they were sent to a group of people, and my guess is that the prophets and Paul probably never assumed those things would become public letters and would end up in the Bible. It was done in a private sphere. The optics of this looks like a bunch of Christians fighting. I'm right (or the 20,000 women) and you're wrong. Let me reiterate, I also believe their teaching is false. But, Jesus also said, they will know us by our love for one another, and I actually think that is the higher ethic. I'm not sure why you needed to do this publicly. Let those authors have their problems and you do your thing. Change the atmosphere around this by speaking truth.
I find it also false that he doesn’t deal with abuse. He explicitly has in multiple of his interviews and videos you can find on UA-cam. The presupposition in “Love and Respect” is that BOTH people are seeking the lord and wanting to be Christlike, even if they’re imperfect.
So I think your critique is lacking.
He has so many anecdotes in his books of men who were physically abusive (even jailed for physical abuse) and he says the answer is unconditional respect and learning never to bring up his abuse again. Seriously, just read the book. He SAYS it's only for good-willed husbands, but then he also says that you have to assume your husband is good-willed. He also says that the book is for those whose husband is drinking or straying (p. 88). He gives multiple examples of abusive spouses. quite frankly, his caveats mean nothing when this is the advice he gives.
In one of his seminars he tells the audience he laughs at women who say they are abused. He assumes they are lying. Without gathering any info.
Read his chapter on the adulterous, harsh alcoholic ptsd husband. Realize that *most* alcoholic husbands are abusive. Them realize many men with ptsd from war are abusive. And then look at his advice to those wife who had been cheated on and treated with hatred. Read it slowly. Pretend your husband is talking to you like he hates you everyday. Cheating on you. And then read the canned advice he gives.
How about going to the Bible for your teaching? God’s Word is very clear on these subjects. You rely on your statistics more than you rely on God’s Word. Plus my wife and I do not appreciate you bashing all these other authors, many of which we have found to be extremely helpful in our marriage.
We do go to the Bible. Repeatedly. But you are one data point; what you are telling us is that we should believe your one data point over the data from 20,000 women. That's called pride. I'm glad the books helped you. But as a Christian, you have a responsibility to show compassion to those who are less fortunate and hurting. Your lack of compassion and callousness shows that you have not actually internalized the Scriptures you claim to be pointing people to.
One more thing--let's make it clear what you are arguing against. We identified four big teachings that harm women: (1) a woman is obligated to give her husband sex when he wants it; (2) all men struggle with lust; (3) a wife should have frequent sex to keep her husband from watching porn: (4) boys will push girls' sexual boundaries, so she has to be the gatekeeper. We also found a 47 point orgasm gap between men and women, and a 22.6% incidence of vaginismus, which is 2-2.5x higher than the general population. If you are against our book, you are basically saying: we like the orgasm gap. We don't care if women have more pain. We like those four teachings.
@@SheilaWrayGregoire I respectfully submit a question: Is the problem God’s principles for marriage or that we apply His principles incorrectly in our marriages? For example, what is now referred to as the traditional gender roles, once known as the biblical roles for marriage, as taught in Ephesians 5:22-33. What the Bible teaches is a wife’s willing submission to her husband’s loving leadership. We don’t have the option to change these roles. What we can and should do is learn how to fulfill these roles in a God honoring way. God gives us the perfect example in the passage - Christ and His church. The problem comes in when we as husbands do not lovingly lead our wife and when a wife would rather usurp her husband’s leadership role in the marriage and family. We cannot say that God’s principle for marriage is wrong, rather we must learn how to apply it correctly. I would submit to you that abuse and other bad things happen because the biblical principles for marriage are not being followed correctly in our lives and marriages. The same would apply to the 1 Corinthians 7:1-5 passage. It is not that God’s principle for marriage here is wrong, it’s that we apply it incorrectly. Our bodies belong to each other in marriage, and we shouldn’t deprive each other of a mutually fulfilling sexual relationship or temptation can enter our lives and marriages as a result. Yes, there will be times when a loving husband or wife will abstain because of different circumstances that come into our lives, but this shouldn’t be the norm in a loving marriage relationship. Again, the problem is not God’s perfect principle but rather that we imperfect human beings do not apply it correctly, and even might use it to abuse each other.
I respectfully submit a question: Is the problem God’s principles for marriage or that we apply His principles incorrectly in our marriages? For example, what is now referred to as the traditional gender roles, once known as the biblical roles for marriage, as taught in Ephesians 5:22-33. What the Bible teaches is a wife’s willing submission to her husband’s loving leadership. We don’t have the option to change these roles. What we can and should do is learn how to fulfill these roles in a God honoring way. God gives us the perfect example in the passage - Christ and His church. The problem comes in when we as husbands do not lovingly lead our wife and when a wife would rather usurp her husband’s leadership role in the marriage and family. We cannot say that God’s principle for marriage is wrong, rather we must learn how to apply it correctly. I would submit to you that abuse and other bad things happen because the biblical principles for marriage are not being followed correctly in our lives and marriages. The same would apply to the 1 Corinthians 7:1-5 passage. It is not that God’s principle for marriage here is wrong, it’s that we apply it incorrectly. Our bodies belong to each other in marriage, and we shouldn’t deprive each other of a mutually fulfilling sexual relationship or temptation can enter our lives and marriages as a result. Yes, there will be times when a loving husband or wife will abstain because of different circumstances that come into our lives, but this shouldn’t be the norm in a loving marriage relationship. Again, the problem is not God’s perfect principle but rather that we imperfect human beings do not apply it correctly, and even might use it to abuse each other.
At 15:40 you seem to mention a marriage coming under attack due to lack of sex, even satanic attack, as a doubtful or laughable concept.
Oof.
That’s cringe. And will absolutely cause women who don’t have sex with their husbands to remain in their ways without challenge.
And Paul discusses this topic explicitly as well. It cannot be ignored or dismissed so flippantly just because modern ears don’t like the way it sounds.
Again, what is your definition of sex? If it is merely intercourse, then this isn't biblical. Eggerichs never once mentions pleasure for women. He merely says that sex is about a husband's physical release, and without release he comes under satanic attack. A wife does not owe a man physical release when sex is not mutual, intimate, or pleasurable for both. Sex is not merely one-sided intercourse, and men who think it is are ALREADY under attack.
Honestly, yall sound pretty bitter and disrespectful, especially when talking about his marriage at 17:15.
Good grief.
You spend so much time talking about reasons why women can’t or shouldn’t “be expected” to have sex with their husbands but then also complain that women aren’t seen as people with sexual desires. Lol😅
Which is it?
So to be a sexual being you have to be expected to have no bodily autonomy and have sex on command? No. That logic is absolutely ridiculous and disgusting.
@@rebecaa7482 that doesn’t really have to do with my comment. And if sex is that disgusting to you, please don’t be married lol
@@bradleykimmons It directly has to do with your comment actually and you know it. And this isn’t a laughing matter. Try acting your age. And it’s your logic that’s disgusting to me not sex. As I said. Not that it’s any of your business what I or anyone else does in their marriage anyway. You’ve left these women several harassing comments, you’re practically internet stalking them. It’s clear you’re the one who needs to get their priorities in order.
She talks to women about how to get in the mood in other videos.
She is criticizing advice that actually keeps women from being in the mood. Many men are giving advice about sex that actually causes women to hate sex. And then wonder why women don’t want sex.
@@bradleykimmonsMan you really don’t get it do you?