All TJ Types (INTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ, ESTJ) with Countertype Michael, Amy, Kat & Samuel | MBTI Series
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- The TJ Types (INTJ, ESTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ) discuss the commonalities and differences between their personality types.
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Hi there! I'm Joyce, a certified MBTI® Master Practitioner, Enneagram Coach, Jungian Typology Expert, Master NLP Practitioner, and Gallup® CliftonStrengths Coach.
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#INTJ #ENTJ #ISTJ #ESTJ #TJ #MBTI #countertype
What Sam said about xntj planning is related to concepts is that, yes, there’s the planning process going, but also a critical and conceptual process going too...
Great panel! I was thinking about this at the end following what Joyce said: type descriptions are in 2D, type interviews are in 3D, and I would add that having multiple interviews with the same people across time is 4D.
This is very valuable, especially for people watching these panels to understand these types in more depth. It lets us see the subtle evolution of these individuals between interviews. This helps with understanding the cognitive functions themselves, because then we can see how context influences the different ways in which they can manifest.
And finally, it could be argued that getting all these different people to share their thoughts with one another is 5D. Language is an essential tool to our collective evolution as a species. Typology is one of these languages that is increasingly expanding in scope thanks to people like Joyce and these willfull interviewees. Thank you for your work :)
Reading this made me happy, Vaness!! Thank you for the very 5D meta commentary on Type Talks. :)
I'm an INFP and so I find this really interesting. I find that I relate to this during my stressful periods of life - planning and prioritising solving the task the most efficiently and then ponder on the emotions provoked by the situation afterwards. The other stuff is unrelated and distracting. Action over thinking! I might get irritated and snappy if someone detract's me from the task at hand (unhealthy baby Te here in motion!) as well which can be a jarring contrast to people who see me normally in my 'zen' state. I achieve a lot during those times. It just get's tiring having that mentality and emotionally I feel really drained.
in a rare moment of Se awareness, the music is very peaceful and soothing. loved the panelists, knew i would connect with many of their thoughts as a TJ type myself
This was really cool. I love how intense everyone is
This was so good! I learned to appreciate TJs in my life and learned about my own Si. Thank you for sharing this Joyce
49:10 something that stuck out to me in Samuel’s explanation here was the planning based on what’s needed generally, regardless of the specific way the situation actually plays out, which is different from the Ni planning based on the specific way the situation’s predicted to play out.
Great Panel, very interesting stuff and thank you Joyce for the organizing this! As a quick improvement perhaps for next time (or at least that is something that would have been interesting for me to know) is asking the TJs what is important for them in relationships (romantic or friendships) and how other types best can show their support for them. Big thank you Joyce for all your panels in general, I learned a bunch of new stuff from these and got valuable insights into all types :D.
Great idea! I will do these panel themes again, but we will be answering your questions surrounding relationships. Give me a few months and I'll get around to it eventually!
Loved hearing about the Se Te flowstates here that actually really helped me to identify mine and what it looks like. I generally ignore it since I think I use it a lot without thinking too much at this age but yeah great panel this really was interesting. Also, look at all of the potential here, could rule a small country, or planet… have a business etc. wow. Efficient.
Nice panel. On the flip-side, as a high Fi user, emotions are so relevant to me, to who I am and my well-being that if/when high Te users don’t see emotions as relevant and don’t prioritize them, it feels like they are telling me that I am not important and I am not relevant. That’s how it feels. Basically, if my emotions/feelings are not important to you, then I am not important to you. Maybe if I saw the actions that are prioritized above my emotions as more important and immediately important than myself, then okay… hmm… I think I’d only see/think that in danger/safety situations. If my emotions are hurt then that is the crisis that needs to be fixed asap. It’s interesting how time for productivity actions/problems are viewed here.
I am an INFP. I am watching this video to hopefully better understand my wife, who I am fairly certain is an ISTJ. After 25 years of marriage we definitely know how to work with and communicate with each other, but what makes her tick is still a beautiful mystery. So looking for more insight. That being said, y'all had me exhausted within 40 minutes of just listening! Gonna have to take this in chunks, probably more than once, but have already come away with some great things to think about. Thank you all for your time and thoughtful responses.
I liked what Kat said about being confused with an introvert in her early life. I have found that very true across the board for ENTJ s. Ni is extremely important in this phenomenon.
I love how all the Te describe they use their Te respectively to their Intuitive and Sensing functions. The examples the Si keeps taking and how the Ni users were using the examples of Si to explain better what was happening is very fascinating. Joyce is an illusion... she's not even there🤣🤣. It's funny that the ISTJ was actually the most agreeable there. Amy's social awareness is very low. Kat's social awareness is probably not even existent and Michael tries but he is still looking a lil stiff with it all. But they all have a great understanding of what's going on
Question for Amy: You seemed to show an impressive amount of vulnerability and self reflection, especially when talking about how you struggled with talking too much when you were younger etc. (Perhaps vulnerability and Fi go hand in hand?) What advice would you give to help other ESTJs, particularly young adults, how they can develop their ability to be vulnerable at times and honest, let their guard down etc?
Thank you!
From another ESTJ... Leaps of faith bro. With no Ni easly at your disposal, you're just going in thinking at least 3 ~ 5 ways of things going south in the feeling department especially if there ain't a previous event that was stored in the Si. If You just believe in something take the jump, you'll see that the water ain't that deep (most of the time) and you'll do just fine balancing outcomes with Ne and Si as you go. If something actually goes wrong, now the outcome is in the Si data bank and you know better the next time you have to make that call.
Pick some opportunities to try being vulnerable. Start with people who you trust to not judge you for foot in mouth moments. It can be improved with practice and age.
As an INTJ one thing I’ll do if a situation can’t be resolved at the moment but it’s driving my Fi insane and I need to release the feelings somehow I’ll resort to sad movies to literally cry the feelings out. Sad movies work with depression.. rage rooms and ax throwing helps me release pent up anger and then I’ll end the “feeling” session with some comedy like New Girl to bring my mind back to a happy baseline. If I can resolve the issue that’s causing the emotions then I’ll always choose that first but because I absolutely need to control my feelings I’ll do whatever I can to release them in a healthy way (like movies) so I don’t blow up on people or make stupid decisions I might not have thought through. It actually works.
Why I enjoy infj and intj responses for each other, I think intj points out and infj nurtures those every words
TE squad . Wow
Thx for estj I learn Si so Much
~intj
I'm an ENTJ and i find myself far more in alignment with INTJs than ESTJs. I don't know if its because im more academic and less executive. I'm often irritated by being compared so closely to ESTJs because my thought processes and execution style is so contrary. I don't care at all about rules, boundaries, and someone else's plans especially if they are arbitrary unless they compliment my goals. I am more pragmatic and far less compliant. I also enjoy generating my own systems rather than following one created for me.
This isn't necessarily your case, but how sensors are seen usually hides their strengths and actual shortcommings. Tirelessly pursuing predetermined and meaningless goals is portrayed as the essence of the ESTJ, but it is a reductionist perspective.
Rules and boundaries serve the purpose of maintaining trust, incentivising cooperation and creating new possibilities. Sometimes following them is the wrong choice and ESTJ's may fall for it, by mere ignorance. However, this depends on the ESTJ. A well developed one will realize it isn't rational and will improvise, like a good extravert.
The same problem occurs to other types: an ENTJ may think a given perspective is brilliant, not compromise and face his/her doom. A well developed one will rationally know the extend they should invest on each idea.
Both Te doms share the ability to arrive quickly at objective and rational conclusions, articulate resources and procedures effectively and follow consistenly through their plans, but improvise whenever necessary.
INTJ and ENTJ share all functions thus they're more likely to be similar, but there is virtue in what Te doms share.
@@samuelunias673 Thank you
1:19:00 I track my energy as well as an ENFP. I have to be very careful to cap my Love of people, planning and Fun attitude because it attracts more attention (negative & positive) than I’m mentally or physically prepared to interact with....... unless it leads to Ne conversation; then I’m lost in conversation for hours. 🙉
This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For that Te-challenge-me state, I’m intj and my way of doing it in an example is, I had an important exam in 2 months and my Te just wanted instant results; but alas I don’t have a time machine yet to make the exam day come sooner, so I left 80% of studying for the last two days and for the rest of the 2 months I’d just do some studying here and there, my ni and te sort of knew I will ace the exam, which exactly what happened; as in I’m the highest tester...
As a Ti dom and an xxTP, this was pretty triggering to listen to lol, but I love learning about other types especially those with opposing functions.
You just need to keep them separated...
Te's UNITE 🗣🗣🗣
Where do TJs’ Fe rank among the different types’ weakest functions? Compared to FJs’ Te, NPs’ Se, SPs’ Ne?
TJs seem to be more than just bad at Fe. Some of them seem to almost revel in the awfulness of their Fe. Most of them seem to find Fe extremely uncomfortable, on both the giving and receiving side- the discomfort with both giving and receiving compliments, for example. Seems to go beyond just “I suck at this” to almost a moral(?) aversion. It’s like they see participating in Fe like being involved in a wardrobe malfunction. “I hope to God that that never happens to me, and if it happens to someone else around me, the right thing to do is to politely avert my gaze and change the subject.”
Michael Pierce, a typolgist who's been on one of Joyce's panels, came up with a framework that I think explains this. I'm an INTJ for reference.
For him, all four of the function axes are described by what he refers to as universalism vs contextualism. The universalist mindset is focused on pulling in data and perspectives from other contexts in an attempt to achieve a more global perspective - Si/Ne and Fe/Ti - while contextualism's tendency is to take a given context for granted, sacrificing a wide-angle view of reality for a more focused, high resolution perspective - Ni/Se and Te/Fi.
So, the primary difference between the two extroverted judgement functions is that Fe is universal Je and Te is contextual Je, and this difference is where the issue lies for TJs. Fe is a philosophical perspective that asks us not to operate according to our own, personal (Fi) context, but rather according to eternally valid, Ti principles that hold no matter the context. In a word, it's about propriety - about conforming to conventionally accepted standards of behavior or morals. Te is the exact opposite; it's all about expediency and operating according to rules adapted to a particular context, in order to evince maximum efficiency and achieve one's personal, Fi desires.
Fe directly contradicts this, but how exactly it chafes against a TJ depends on their functional stack. For the IxTJs, Fe is their POLR or trickster function, so it tends to take on this kind of insidious character (as all trickster functions do - it feels like everything that's wrong with society can ultimately be laid at the hands of, in this case, Fe). People worry about arbitrary rules and customs that have no practical, Te value and what's even worse, they do it at the direct expense of their innermost Fi feelings.
I don't know what it's like for ExTJs, but I'll make an analogy towards my relationship to Si as an Ni dominant. The dynamic is not as antagonistic or oppositional, but what Si asks us to do is directly opposed to Ni in the same way Fe is to Te; Si sees the singular certainty of Ni as ultimately foolish, and so the only option is to relinquish personal ambitions and spread oneself thin across a multitude of Ne contingencies. For an Ni dom such as myself, that feels very much like allowing myself to dissolve and expecting that to somehow not kill me, and I imagine it would feel similar for a Te dom, or really just any of the types who lead with a contextual function.
@@rayos_vt Thank you for this. Lots to think about and lots of new directions to investigate. Very much appreciated.
Te in top 2
All have Fe in bottom
ESTJ Te Si Ne Fi
ISTJ Si Te Fi Ne
INTJ Ni Te Fi Se
ENTJ Te Ni Se Fi
Si (ESTJ, ISTJ) vs Ni (INTJ, ENTJ)
Fi child (ISTJ, INTJ)
Fi Inferior (ESTJ, ENTJ)
13:26 We don't care about your feedback cos your not a customer. Roles roles roles.
I mean, if its true its true, by all means customer feedback trumps feels, but if all you have is your plan, then maybe its just what you feel like doing.
14:50 ESTJ Offend the world for those close to ke
16:17 ESTJ Solve problem to control their mood so they can be reasonable. INTJ agrees with this.
21:19 Fi children The to do list must be done to thing about emotions
36:07 ESTJ Planning after the first run (but trials and prototypes
44:00 Ni always planning
50:00 ISTJ personal performance vs outcome
51:28 Everyone must follow the plan
53:10 (best possible cog)
53:32 EJ vs IJ (scope of responsibility)
INTP triggers
51:50 "I'm going to make you comply" me: I will never comply, but I will be very helpful
55:42 "Talent scouting" why triggering, talent is often made up, I want to learn stuff, I dint want to be pigeonholed. Stop creating this pointless structure.
56:47 "group of people that they organize". Hmm, organization is never an aim just a means to an end. If we are carrying out a military operation, fine, but its like, what's the point? If something needs organization we'll find out and fix it
INTP identifying
1:00:17 Keeping track of who might be useful. I do this.
I. LOVE. AMY! 😍
A villain, two dominas and an accountant. We have enough social capital here to start a mob family. 😉
Shitty mbti aside, it is interesting how much perception of Te has changed since Jung. For him the paradigmatic Te thinker was Darwin and not so much Henry Ford (he also gave Nietzsche as an example for "unhealty" Ti) and Te vs.Ti was analog to science vs. philosophy.
But listening about Te now, it seems much more a nickname for willpower than a thinking style.
I think this trasition from Scientist to Manager is very telling, but I'm not sure if it crosses the Atlantic or the 20th century.
That's in interesting insight and I like it, but I may differ about how telling this can be. Willpower is an acient phenomenon. It's influence may be a better indicator of human behavior than of an era. The current representatios of Te may put an avoidable emphasis on its relation to resources, but I believe it still preserves the paradigmatic nature of Te. It servers as an easy example of the function.
1:26:57 lmao "you have to define detail first"
33:45 The guy loves restaurants 😭
Facts @ talent scouts lol perfectly said
Amy is not a ESTJ. She act like a ESFJ. She talk too much and talk to much about people, a very Fe thing.
My People,people, my family, every time. Look her profile picture at thumbnail....
Exactly...small talking having a purpose lol