Using Effects Pedals With Multi Channel Guitar Amps [And A Bit On FX Loops] - That Pedal Show
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
- Many amps have separate clean and overdrive channels. We discuss how the sounds differ when you use your pedals with them, including using the effects loops.
Life too short for long UA-cam videos? Please see the ‘Interesting bits and go-to sections’ information below.
Hello folks, sorry this one is late - we had some gremlins in the system that made the edit corrupted, so it had to be fixed. We got there in the end.
Welcome to the show! In this episode, Dan and I demonstrate what happens when you use common effects pedal types - boost, overdrive, modulation, delay/reverb - into the clean and dirty channels of your guitar amplifier. We also touch on the effects loop section of your amp and why you may or may not want to use that.
Now, clearly there’s quite a bit of latitude in what we might call ‘overdrive’. In this case we’re using a mid-gained overdrive texture for our 'dirty' channel. The more gained you go, the more marked differences you will hear between clean and dirty channels in terms of how your effects react.
For anyone wanting more on FX loops in general including stuff like the Four Cable Method (that Dan is basically using to patch the amp's preamp into G2), that is for another day - we'll dedicate a whole show to it.
Meantime, there are on-screen graphics to explain what's going on, but if you're still confused…
The effects order is as follows: Guitar, Boost, D&M Drive, Jam Ripply Fall, Maxon AD-9, Source Audio Collider, Amp
Now look at the top row of G2. The four labels that start with ‘Preamp…’ refer to where the amp’s FX loop is sitting in the signal chain. When the red light is lit under…
• Preamp After Drives: this means the boost and D&M Drive are hitting the amp preamp. ALL other effects are in the amp effects loop.
• Preamp After Ripply Fall: Boost, D&M, Ripply Fall in the front, Delays in the amp effects loop
• Preamp After Analogue Delay: Boost, D&M, Ripply Fall and Maxon AD-9 in the front of the amp, Source Audio Collider in the amp effects loop
• Preamp After Everything: Everything in the front of the amp, nothing in the effects loop.
We hope that helps!
Enjoy the episode.
Pedals & stuff in this episode…
• TheGigRig Three2One
www.thegigrig.com/three2one
• Peterson Strobo Stomp HD
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2Ozf60o
USA: imp.i114863.net/qdYx5
Australia: bit.ly/2lM39so
• Metropoulos Supa-Boost
store.metropoulos.net/product...
• Keeley D&M Drive
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2oTblU1
Australia: bit.ly/2pUDUAE
USA: bit.ly/3DIJDia
• Jam Pedals Ripply Fall
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2PoxKu0
USA: bit.ly/33fsD6J
• Maxon AD-9 Pro
No longer available new
• Source Audio Collider Delay & Reverb
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2HwaALt
USA: bit.ly/3ozRtX3
Australia: bit.ly/323SzgS
• TheGigRig G2
www.thegigrig.com/g2
* Why do we have preferred retailer links? Find out here: www.thatpedalshow.com/partners
- Interesting bits and go-to sections…
- Intro playing: 0:00
- Hello and what are we doing today? 1:26
- The Mesa Lone Star is back! 2:34
- Most of our amps are single channel: 3:24
- Why have a channel-switching amp? 4:20
- Today’s actual question: 7:25
- Lone Star clean and dirty channels: 8:00
- Channels or modes? 11:15
- Boost pedals: 12:25
- …into clean channel: 13:28
- …into overdrive channel: 15:42
- …and with humbuckers: 17:10
- …and more gain: 18:15
- OD pedals into clean and dirty channels: 19:10
- The boost and overdrive summary so far: 23:18
- Juicing up the OD channel: 24:15
- Signal chain: amp front end and amp FX loop: 28:15
- Delay and reverb into front of clean amp: 29:30
- …and overdrive channel: 30:13
- …and in the amp FX loop: 31:05
- Substituting an overdrive pedal for amp overdrive channel, loop and no loop: 32:15
- Line level? 35:47
- Analogue delay in the front of amp and in FX loop: 37:20
- Modulation, clean channel: 39:40 (40:55)
- Dirty channel: 41:42
- Why Mick stopped using two-channel amps: 46:16
- A final point on amp channels and phase: 47:55
Guitars in this episode:
• Fender American Vintage ’62 Stratocaster - Mick’s video at bit.ly/2cQv3yT
• Fender Custom Shop 1963 Telecaster - Dan’s video at bit.ly/2dlZJ6K
• Gibson Memphis 1958 ES-335 - Mick’s video at bit.ly/2mpJA8X
Amps in this episode
• Mesa Boogie Lone Star Classic 1x12 with Mesa/Celestion C90 speaker
We hope you enjoy this episode. Please subscribe to our channel.
You can buy TPS merch to support our efforts www.thatpedalshowstore.com
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/ thatpedalshow
Please visit our preferred retailers!
UK & Europe: Andertons Music bit.ly/2cRvIvt
Australia: Pedal Empire bit.ly/2mWmJQf
USA: That Pedal Shop www.thatpedalshop.com/
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Friday was incomplete...balance is restored.
It isn't! I still feel the void. I can't handle changes that well. Friday without 60 to 90 minutes of TPS is not a complete and/or satisfying friday.
And sundays are meant to be for sports and only sports.
I'm confused, I'm sweaty, this is not good! 😰
“A black hole” is completely right, exploring the combinations is amazing. Once you add in preamp pedals it’s down right infinite!🤯
I was worried the UK had fallen into the sea on Friday. Had to check the news to make sure it didn't happen. LOL.
No. I hate change.
Mario Driessen J
Don't think we aren't noticing the slow death of the Namedrop Horn.
RIP sweet prince.
May it blast its tired rubber stench and rage, rage into the night.
THE LONESTAR IS BACK!!! 😱😱
Happy you guys got the issue worked out. Now, for the hard part. Don’t beat yourselves up about it! I’ve been subscribed for years, and TPS has been the most consistent channel I follow. You’ve been adding production value consistently, and eventually that means there will be a gremlin in the works somewhere. Just don’t feed Frazier after midnight and we’ll all be fine:)
GrumbleAiden here here! At least now we know they aren’t deep fakes! Keep it human guys! We love you!
Gents - greetings from Brooklyn NY. A work colleague of mine had to go back to AUS to renew a passport stamp. She lives in... Brisbane, Queensland. So I asked her to please find the time to visit Pedal Empire and let them know that their partnership with your show is effective and giving them exposure all the way to NY! The gent at the store was super awesome and gave my friend a guided video tour of the store, the cases, the practice rooms and jam space, all for my benefit! That place looks like heaven on Earth, and they are obviously great people too.
Dave here...hello! Nothing like finding out Sunday morning that it's actually Friday afternoon! I've been looking forward to this weekend all weekend! Cheers!
Looking forward to the Effects Loop episode.
Man I love the lonestar… it’s my number one and have quite a collection of boutique and vintage amps. The headroom and clean channel is amazing 👍👍👍
LOVE Lonestars!
I was going thru withdrawal without my Friday fix of TPS.
I’ve always been one of those weird chord guys who just looks for extended voicings and Dan’s chords and jazz melodies always make me smile.
I'm glad that you guys managed to get the issues worked out! I don't think I could handle a weekend without TPS!
Thank you! Yep. New computer purchased too. That hurts. Eeek.
That Pedal Show seems like we only get computers when we have to these days. When did it become “plumbing” the unsexy expensive thing you can’t live without? I am dreading an upgrade myself. What did you get?
If you sold wallpaper that looked like racks of pedals, I would buy it. That is as close as one of my rooms would ever get to looking like your studio.
I second that!
That's a really cool idea, I'd buy it.
Very cool idea for the music room!
You say ‘playing in the dirty channel’ and Sid James’ ghost laughs in my ear.
Can we please acknowledge the thought, wit, and effort that Micks takes in responding to our comments? Even with the now weekly VCQ, he still manages to throw us some brief British insight. Thanks for being so present, Mick.
The cleans on that Lonestar are the best I’ve heard.
2 words Andy Timmons :) the king of 2 channel amp tones \m/ you guys should have him on TPS :) i would love to hear his input and approach to that sweet sweet tone. Great show as always lads.
no TPS on Friday thought the world had ended
One of the best TPS intro jams. Beautiful
what has happened here... suddenly my sunday night has became SUPER COOL!! YESSS!!!!!
Yes. Another TPS to fill my evening. Thanks Dan and Mick.
Lovely to see the Lone Star in use, since I'm a Mesa player, myself. When an episode doesn't appear on Friday, the first thing I worry about is your health. Glad to see all is well!
Hearing Mick and Dan talk about doing "something else in the dirty channel" is making me feel a certain way.
What an utterly stunning intro from Mick.
Thank you!
You can always count on that.
Thank you for this treat, guys. Good to see you.
You did it - got all worried this weekend!
Plus you did IT!
The episode I’m waiting for for so long and since I use the gain of my amp as part of gain staging - love it!! Thaaank youuuu!
Thanks guys! I really appreciate you doing this episode!
Hey guys! Sorry if all the tech trouble has spoilt your weekend a bit! Absolutely love the show! Thanks for all the effort you put into making it! I've learnt so much about guitar gear from you guys!
Carol Ann od3r is the ultimate multi channel. Looked for years and have had many with great one or the other channels but not both. Till the CA amp. Amazing loop too. Just look into it in your free time!...lol Great episode
Oh, I love the Sunday release. Friday’s are tough because of work and then the weekend. This is a great use of my lazy Sunday!!
Just watch the Friday releases... on Sunday?
looptheloops I don’t understand these words you wrote. They do not compute. Wait..? No. No, that’s not a thing I’m pretty sure.
What a create episode had a multiple channel amp for years never thought of the effect loop signal chain order like that before! Thanks
5:30 in says something about tinder and grinder.… Shortly there after says something about plugging gain stages. I giggled. 😱🤯😭😭😭. I absolutely love this show!
It's super great we get a lot of sound samples of a vintage strat through different modern amps and pedals!
Thanks so much for doing this show - I've been wanting to hear you guys on exactly this topic for some time. Rock on.
been lost since Friday feels wrong without TPS glad you got it sorted has to spend all day rebuilding my pedal board Saturday just to make up for no TPS shattered no though spent most of today fixing my noise issues after rebuilding my board with a bad power supply, can relax now and watch TPS
Best explanation of an FX Loop I've heard yet. Even the explanation of a signal chain was great!
Just bought a VHT d-50 (amazing and inexpensive dumble clone) and this is exactly what I needed. Thanks.
You guys answer the questions we all
Ask!
Saturday night, I had a short on a patch cable and was forced to just plug into my amp. This is a practice that I had stopped doing since watching your show, because you had pointed out the practicality of using my amp as a pedal platform. Once I used my gain channel at the gig, I instantly fell in love with it again. Then I was faced with the dilemma of how to get a Tube Screamer like boost for solos. By coincidence (if you believe in those things), this is the episode that posted after the gig. Now I fully understand why someone would by a mid-boost, and when to use it. I also realized that I now need to sign onto your Patreon because your show helps me make a living doing what I love. Thank you Dan and Mick!
I love my Mesa Lonestar Special! It has EL84s and sounds so sweet. Each morning first thing I do is have pot of Guatemalan coffee and plug straight into the Lonestar, no pedals. It’s my reference point for what a proper electric guitar should sound like. I even turn off the effects loop switch. I think it’s a slight improvement. From there I can move on to adding pedals or messing with the Kemper, Helix and Iridium while maintaining perspective. By the way, the new Xotic Super Sweet and Super Clean boosters are superb. I’m sure you’ll like them. Great show guys thanks!
I've never owned one, but I knew someone who did, and he made that sucker sing!
The lone star special is the best sounding amp ever made in my opinion.
Epic Episode Mates!!! Very strong topic, useful, informative, entertaining!!! Rock on!!!
Effects Pedals - Pre or Post Overdrive. Great examples and explanations of how pedals and multi- channel amps can really shine. Good to see you lads in such great form!
With that delay before and after the effects loop, you can really hear what made that "Welcome to the Jungle" intro so identifiable. It's got that multiple guitars playing out of time together thing that is really cool, but probably wouldn't work with the rest of the band playing.
I've been playing my Revv D20 "pedal platform" type amp for the last few months, and you chaps inspired me to pull out my Mesa Lonestar Special again. So fun that amp! And I tried some boost and even some Klon clone (Strymon Sunset) into the crunch channel, and it sounded great. Thanks for reminding me I had some awesome gear. Also I definitely love using the FX Loop for delay/Reverb.
The perfect video for me, having an Orange TH30 and a D&M Drive AND always tone searching. Learned a lot, thank you!
This is awesome! Can´t get enough of your show! Thank you! 😊
This video was particularly helpful to me. Thanks, as always!
The way you explain the use of the channels and effects loop intuitively makes a lot of sense. What does not make sense is that I had not thought of it before myself, much less developed a related effects strategy! Having the demonstrations really drives home your points. I have a Lonestar Special and I almost always use the clean channel and run both channels with the reverbs off. I guess it makes sense to forgo using effect pedals into the higher gain channel, and turn its reverb back on. Baby steps.
I don't know how I missed this video! Funny enough, I was thinking I hadn't played my Lone Star in ages so I brought it to the gig on the 23rd and just threw my board in front of it with no tweaking and had a wonderful time. Serendipitous. Still one of my favourite amps of all time. Thanks again Dan and Mick!
I have to thank you guys for opening my eyes to how things work and how to dial in the sound I'm looking for. Last but not least, thank you for inspiring me to play more guitar 😊
I realised how much you are a part of my life as I spent all weekend worried about you guys. I’m not on social media and was super relieved it was just technical gremlins guys.
Thanks for a great video! I have a 1988-89(?) Mesa Quad preamp, this thing is amazing! It is Mark IIC and Mark III in one box, each with its own spring reverb and clean/lead channels.
I always use both at the same time, sometimes leave one amp on clean channel and switch another one into lead (not too much overdrive, just to give it some character), really nice sound when combined.
Perfectly timed vid. After years of single channel clean headroom amps, I recently acquired a Bogner Goldfinger 45, which is a two channel amp. Every single thing you touched on is what I've been discovering. First time ever using an effects loop, gotta say, I really like it even though it's an extra step when it's time for setting up at gigs. I did notice that I had to adjust my time based effects levels quite a bit. They need more level going thru the effects loop as opposed to going straight in, so I made all new presets for when I'm using the Bogner. Thanks for the vid, great info!!
Fellas, really well organized show. I know many will appreciate the well thought out/organized explanations. Great job, cheers!
Mick: I’m gonna switch guitars.
Me: Get Blue, Get Blue!
Mick: “hesitates”......grabs Blue.
Me: YES!
I love my Lonestar Classic. Best piece of gear I've ever bought. It made me play 10 times more. Thanks Mesa Boogie!
So glad this has arrived... better late than never. Friday just wasn't the same! 🎸
Another great video. Thanks guys.
As a major notebook fan I think we need a TPS branded notebook with the "no answers, just better questions" motto on the front!
That opening was awesome! Loved all of the sounds together...
2. That Mesa sounds incredible, I know a good home for it if you are really not using 2 channel amps anymore.
Mesa for life!
I have an old 100w Valvestate Marshall - dreadfull effects loop also, as is the clean channel - I use it as a drinks stand now 🍸
Every amp serves a purpose lol.
I think I went onto a state of TPS withdrawal because of no Friday episode but thank god I got a Sunday fix !!, excellent episode :)
As a Mesa Boogie owner (Studio .22+) I have to say you don't use Mesa amps nearly enough, that Lone Star sounds fantastic. My Studio .22 has an extra gain stage rather than 2 channels, like you mentioned and I use it exactly as you describe, like a separate pedal instead of another channel. Brilliant episode, really helpful.
Really looking forward to the show on Fx loops. My understanding of the differences in the way these things can operate is zero. That Mesa sounds fantastic.
Good to see your issues is sorted, many a guitarist/bassist have been twiddling their thumbs for the past 48 hours unsure of what pedals to google to add to their hoard! I used to run a Mesa Little Mark V with both channels but just found it too hard to manage, so decided to go to single channel amps and found the whole process easier to manage!
I enjoy the descriptions at the bottom of the screen. Helps visualize that is going on.
Sunday just got great!! Loving the mesa lonestar.... got mine after hearing yours.
Just affirmation for me: I had a Lonestar 4x10 twin channel before I discovered TPS, choice affirmed! Totally awesome amp.
@@johnvcougar its a great amp.... paired with a victory V40 in a wet dry set up.... absolutely love it!
Happy Friday (!) Also, that description section is excellent. 👏👏
Very good episode! Thanks guys
Man, I walked around yesterday with my bottom lip poked out, pouting. Then I started thinking, "Oh no, I hope they're ok. What if something bad happened?" I'd like to think it was genuine concern, but to be honest, it might have been the thought of no more TPS and the ensuing bout with withdrawal.. Great show as always, love you guys.
I bought the Lonestar Head in Australia 15 years with the 4 x 10" Jenson Cab. Used it for a few years and got sick of carting the 2 parts to pubs. I picked up a 1 x 12" combo cab on eBay and put the head into it to use it for small pub gigs. I still can plug in the 4 x 10 cab when I'm practicing in the shed. Still sounds awesome! I set up the Lonestar with the second channel as a boosted clean rather than a dirty. Underrated amp!!! I also have a couple of Gibson Super Goldtones ive bought second hand from the same era which have channel switching. You could double the channel into each other - They were also awesome and underrated!!
Great show, very informative. Wish I would've seen this info about a year ago... Been searching in vain to get a good volume boost out of my JCM800, of course using the high sensitivity input. Then I tried the low sensitivity input. Problem solved! I run a Carl Martin Plexi Tone into it, set my crunch to taste and the boost works fantastic without coloring the tone.
My first amp,. my Ampeg VH-140C stereo combo, had two different effects loops. It had a mono loop on the front panel, before the phase splitter/inverter, and then it had a stereo loop after the phase splitter/inverter, with stereo preamp outs and stereo power amp ins. But, like you, I am very much a convert to pedal overdrives, and running everything into the front end of a tube amp. As Dan says, there's a magic there. I chased the dragon of building a stereo rackmount three-stage preamp-poweramp-attenuator-fx-poweramp rig for a few years, but it was just way too much expense and trouble. Getting my drive from pedals and running everything into the clean channel of my F-50 was a revelation. I'll never go back. Some of my favorite amps are channel-switching amps, but I'll still use them as clean amps. And now, I never have to worry about channel switching or fx loops or built-in reverb/trem/chorus again.
A lot of this has to do with the architecture of the lonestar. The gain knob is essentially a general eq knob with distortion, and the eq knobs are essentially gain knobs at various frequencies. As you turn up the gain, it turns up the bass, so you have to bring the bass down for it to remain tight. Also, the effects send level is adjustable, and many people use it as another gain stage to push distortion further along in the circuit path. Not all amps behave in this way, in fact, most don't. The lonestar is a weird beast. Its an amp for people who really understand how an amp works. They essentially give you all of the options, so there are many ways to make them sound terrible, but also ways to make them sound amazing.
Players have to spend time with these amps and their ears! Patient tweaking will yield amazing results! I have one and it is awesome!
My 3 channel Carvin V3 has a built-in boost in the power tube section that makes each channel up to 10dB louder. It’s perfect for solos, the clean stays clean but louder (ideal for jazzy/pop stuff) and the crunch/metal channels jump out without getting hairier or compressed. Great feature.
Superb, yet again!
I have a Mesa Triaxis and fully subscribe to the "preamp as a pedal" thought. It sits in the G2's Vol Insert and is super clean, overdrive breakup or full on chunk when I need it to be. For me, it works a treat.
Rob Caggiano from Volbeat has a great way of using his multi channel amps in live shows. He has the dirty channel set up for rhythm sounds, and uses the clean channel with all his effects for lead parts.
YES! We have recommended exactly this in previous episodes. Makes every sense to me.
Just bought a Mesa/Boogie Rectoverb 25 two days ago and can't wait to try out the FX Loop this weekend to see if it's as great as the one on the Lone Star!
Interestingly, it's what I've done most of my career. I started using single channel amps just two years ago by watching you guys. Just a way to switch things around. My most flexible rig is built around an Orange Rockerverb. The Overdrive channel dosen't get much use most gigs, but for what it is, I never found a pedal as good.
One of my all time favorite videos of y’alls. The Mesa sounds great and this video covers such a huge puzzling question for many of us. I used to be all about using the loop but now love just running one cable from the board to the amp. The only bummer is that my high gain amps no longer see the light of day. Well done as always.
I missed you so much that I’ve bought the fulldrive 1 last friday,
Great intro song Mick...sounded really really good!
Thanks!
Friday was so sad without you boys. I am old enough to have grown rather concerned. You know how it is! Glad all is well
Great show! A nerd-ish approach to a simple question that does not have a simple answer. Very cool.
Really appreciate the hard work you put into this.
Cheers
I just want to say thanks for finally acknowledging Delay, Reverb in the loop of a dirty amp. I have two videos about this on my channel and because of you guys... I have had SO many people legit fight me about points you guys FINALLY addressed... a clean high headroom amp 100% can deal with everything into the front but. You turn up the gain to “about to break up” levels it can go to shit... so thanks!!! Also there are boosts that work in the FX loop which delivers that exact thing you were searching for at the beginning. Also thanks for mentioning that if you dig delay and verb into the front that That’s ok too... for the record I much prefer all my modulation in the loop as well... tho it’s cool both ways!
Also always try and remember a LOT of your viewers are playing AC15’s and Blues Jr’s
Mick does it again. Lovely.
Guys , good day , this amp is magic , Dan is hook up , seams to Work out great for his style of playing , I think both are surprise of how good this amps sounds , great great episode
Hi guys!
The Robert Keeley Fuzz Bender.....
A bit noisy but glorious tones
Splitter splutter gated Fuzz wonder.
Exellent!
Cheers!
Dream setup, Collings City Limits Jazz (Merlot) and a Mesa Lonestar. That amp is magical seduction.
You folks are reading my mind lately.
Long time viewer, first time comment. Recently bought a MESA Express amp. Great multi-channel amp. Thank you for this episode. Really helpful I’m understanding how to make the most of it!
I didn’t know that bit about multi-channel amps flipping phase. Noted!
On another note, my Boogie DC5 has the same dirty jack issue on the loop where I need a patch cable. Seems that’s pretty common for them and other amps in their line. It took ages and at least one trip to an amp tech that was convinced it was a tube issue before I realized I only had volume drop when I wasn’t using the loop but without the loop, volume was all over the place.
Cheers!
Another excellent video chaps!, I came to this conclusion myself with my Blackstar A30, so these days i run the dirty channel as a really really clean channel with more top end and less mids and that seems to do the trick for certain situations :)
Sounds great
Hey lads, I'm watching from Hawai'i (family vacation from Canada). This episode answered a lot of questions I had about pedal placement in my Blackstar 2-channel amp. I'm still having issues with analogue delay no matter where I put it, though. Just a game of trial and error. Thanks, gents!
Thanks for further illuminating the intricacies, yet relative simplicity, of signal chain/ pedal order / gain staging. Friedman’s new Twin Sister, two identical and switchable Dirty Shirley (“JTM 45”) channels in one amp, looks very interesting. Again, it’s a simple idea to make a “2-in-1 single channel amp”, with one channel set crystal clean and the other edge of break up, or more, then tone shape with boost and OD pedals to taste. Fuzzes will respond differently and, as Dan says, there’s something special about running pedals into a single channel amp’s front end x 2 (with a decent effects loop). 🤓
Mick! That intro!!!! Amazing.
Thanks Alex!
Mick, that new combination of bridge and pickups on Blue is soooooo nice. She's never sounded better :-)
Thanks Greg!
You say "uncontrollable", but I say, "YEAH, BABY! YEAH!" :D
Austin Powers reference?
My takeaway from all of this is that it's perfectly fine to put pedals in front of dual channel amp, but you're gonna have to double up on some gain stage pedals, because they will have to be EQ'd differently. Got it! Another 20 years worth of live-gigging experienced absorbed by me in 40ish minutes. Thanks again.