Check VR6 timing chain stretch w/VCDS or ColourMFA (Golf R32 Passat R36 Bora 2.8 Audi TT 3.2)
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- If you own a VR6 this is something you'll definitely need to know to help protect and maintain your V-Reihenmotor properly. As we know VW had announced the end of the legendary VR6 engine's production (www.whichcar.com.au/news/fare...) so what we've got, is what we've got, and if you're lucky enough to have one - please, please, PLEASE protect it by knowing how to check for timing chain stretch.
You especially want to check your VR6 timing chain stretch if
- you have bought a VR6 car without service history
- the motor is at around 60k km, 120k km, 180k km etc.
- are starting to get rattles or clunking from the engine
This video is relevant for 2.8L, 3.2L and 3.6L VR6's that are fitted to
- Volkswagen Golf Mk4, Golf Mk5, Bora/Jetta Mk4, New Beetle,Passat B6 chassis, Passat CC, Phaeton, Touareg, Sharan, Transporter/Caravelle/Multivan T4 T5 and EOS V6
- Audi A3 8P, TT 8N and 8J, Audi Q7
- Porsche Cayenne
- SEAT León
- Škoda Superb (B6, 3T)
Knowing what values to check and what they mean can be confusing. I detail what VCDS measuring blocks are most important to check when checking timing chain stretch and most of all what they mean.
If you have colourMFA you're also able to dig into the measuring blocks to have a live view of the VVT values (to ensure correct timing) and values which are checked to determine timing chain stretch - typically known as measuring blocks 208 and 209 for the VR6.
Everyone's values will vary but knowing what the specified values are and most of all the value limits are what will keep you and your precious VR6 motor happy and giving you that iconic exhaust note!
Hope this helps you undertand how to better care for your VR6 and here's to VR6 swapping the world!!! insert evil laugh
Got something specific you want to know?
1:00 Timing chain stretch prerequisites
1:34 VCDS group fields and meanings 3.2 VR6
4:09 VCDS Advanced measuring values
5:14 Why check timing stretch values?
6:07 ColourMFA timing chain check 3.6L VR6
7:25 Differences between 2.8L, 3.2L and 3.6L timing chains and guides
- Ian
insta @auditt3.6 - Авто та транспорт
Finally a good explanation. Applicable by common humans. Thank you!
Thanks Shred!
By far the Best video and description of this on the net - spent almost a day researching this on forums, you tube etc
Thanks Conrad appreciate it.
Always post great content to keep us going thank you Ian🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Great info, thank you - i check my vr6 tommorow :)
Great video. 3 days before my R36 I’d having a new timing chain.
Thanks! Good to see yours is getting some love.
Very informative, thanks very much.
Glad you found it helpful Salzar
Great 👍 thanks mate!
Every VR6 owners worst nightmare-a timing chain job😅. I'm sure my Mk5 R32 will need it in the coming years.
hehehe yeah it's a big job!
Absolutely amazing video, very very helpful. Are the figures you input exact for mk4 golf r32 also?
Hi And thanks. Yes that was measured off a mk4 R32 (then 3.6 on ColourMFA) :)
Agreed with this guy. But you need to also take into consideration that a faulty hydraulic tensioner and solenoids can cause these reading to be out also ive known guys that have done oil flushes and regular oil changes bring there readings down. Not always chains are the issue..
finally a guy that does not talk forever, to say little ..
Very informative video, I was wondering if this procedure would work on the 2.5L (8v rs3) or if you knew the measuring blocks to check thanks
Thanks Josh. Sorry I'm not experienced in that engine but this forum reckons it's measuring block 93
www.vwvortex.com/threads/vcds-to-check-chain-stretch-on-2-5%E2%80%99s.9490016/
Legend
Best explanation Ive seen on timing values. Thank you! I have a question, checked my 03 GLI 24v Im certain it needs chains. My intake phase is -6 my exhuast -5 but I noticed my cam adjustment is swapped from yours, intake is 3 and exhaust is 22. What does that mean?
Hey thanks. I would say with those values being so out it definitely time to replace the timing components before your engine kills itself.
Ian made a güt and tight jöb , thanke! a lot
:)
Danke schön
Great video. I had my head gasket done on my Golf 2.8 V6 last year and now readings are wrong or blank and they were the same as your readings before it was done. Car seems to be running fine but now I think as the top chain was removed to do the head I think it may be out of alignment.
Yeah that doesn't sound the greatest result. You got no other errors? Sounds like there may be a sensor error...
@@ianpgonzaga I had my mechanic change the sensors but still the same, no engine light or fault codes so I am stumped. Blocks 208 and 209 were -8 so flushed the engine 5 times with clean oil as reading on the internet and brought the readings down to -2 Block 90 and 91 are wrong
@@maxineg1439 😢 what a mystery. Sounds like it's running OK for the time being so 🤞 no disasters occur.
You should update this to include the VR6 EOS, shares the same drive train as the R32, just FWD and not AWD
Ahh sorry we didn't get those down in Australia. I can add it for sure 👌
Perfect, straight to the point video. My findings: -3.0 kw and -5.0 Kw. is this bad? Do I have to think about the chain replacement? Thanks
Thanks Dusan! ☺️ That's on the way to bad ... The closer the numbers at either extreme ( -8 or 8 ) calls for consideration of timing hardware service. Good luck!
First of all, thank you so much for being the only one that actually explains how to read those values and what do they mean. Awesome job!
I’m a little concern about my VW MK4 R32
Block 208 reads -8.0
Block 209 read -7.0
Spread is just 1 degree
Then
Block 90 reads 22* and 21.50*
Block 91 reads 3* and 3.50*
Not sure why looks like 90 and 91 are mixed between them
Also, I used the OBDeleven scan
Do I need my timing chain to be changed like right now?
Thanks!
Thanks Santiago!
If you have a noisy engine I would probably do the timing chain and guides service asap.
If it's not noisy and you tend to drive hard then probably best to have it high on the priority list. 😉
It’s not noisy at all…
And I just got her, so I’m still easy on her until I actually know the car lol
Thanks again! It gives me time to find a technician that actually know how to work on it, hard to find in the Florida keys
@@santiagopalmero3807 good luck! You got any pics of your TT in insta?
@@ianpgonzaga I don´t have a TT, its a MK4 VW R32
@@santiagopalmero3807 oh yeah that's right. Did you have pics on insta of the R32?
bro thats insanely useful!!! can you also do video about lambda sensors.
Thanks 😄 What about the lambda's? Their live output meanings??
@@ianpgonzaga bro my lambda shows 0.75 on bank 1 and 1.99 on bank 2 i dont know what this means... I think it's broken. car has smell from the exhaust and has rough idle and rough 1100 rpm cruise. it ok in high rpm but very shaky in low rpm. fuel consumption skyrocketed from 1 litter per hour to 3 littres per hour on idle. my car is VW 2007 year
@@ianpgonzaga how can i diagnose faulty lambda
@@user-sg8lh6ug9d sounds like your sensors are broken and one is compensating for the other.
.75 is super rich while the 1.99 is really lean.
Ideally they're as close to 1 as possible on idle.
Lean conditions would represent a value higher than 1.00, and rich conditions are lower then 1.00.
@@user-sg8lh6ug9d have you scanned the engine to see what fault is coming up for lambda ?
Hi I have an R36, just had a P0343 (signal too high) fault so did some digging, my 208/209 values are +1 and -3. Chain was done professionally about 2 years ago (less than 20,000kms) so not sure what to make of that.
Hey Steven. Check these things in order
- Wiring from/to Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) faulty
- Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) faulty
- Timing
Ian bro thank you for an an awesome educational video ! Wich made me run to my Touareg 3.2 to check the timing.
From what i understood and the results that i saw on my vcds im guessing i need new chains .... But before i commit to spend some $$$$ ill appreciate your input ... So here are the results
G.208 -5
G.209 -5
G90 cam exhaust 20
G91 cam intake 0
All are from the 3rd column
My guess is to order new parts right ?
Hey Nabil. Yeah sounds like you should look into chains and guides replacement. The closer to -8 the worse for wear it's all at :)
@@ianpgonzaga thank you man.
You are awesome 😎😎👍
Awesome vid mate, just picked up an Audi 3.2 V6 and has a rattle in the engine bay so got the VCDS plugged in using your guide and got my values
208: -4
209: -4
90 Engine Duty: 15.3%
90 Adjustment: 0 to 0.5
91 Engine Duty: 15.3%
91 Adjustment: 0 to 0.5
How does that look to you?
Thanks🙂
Thanks Adam.
If you have a rattle, consider an oil and upper tensioner change. Might fix it for now but also start pulling a parts list together to do the big chains and guides service.
@@ianpgonzaga will do thanks for the tip and again for the vid ❤️
Love the vids man! Mine are
(208) -9.0kw and (209) -7.0kw is that bad?
I’ve been searching VW forums and some people have suggested trying 5w 40? If any noise goes away it’ll be fine? Do u think that’s true? I’ve had tapping noises on my 2011 VR6 3.6 for over 3yrs now, Appreciate your vids and any advice? Cheers
😳 with those numbers its like it's about to grenade! I'm amazed at the fact it's been like this for years and not killed itself!
Defo recommend to do the full chains and guides.
@@ianpgonzaga cool will do, thanks for your reply! do you know where i can get a good quality timing chain kit from ive seen some on Ali express and eBay I’m based in NZ but so hard to find here
@@sekiadigicel stay away fr the cheap AliExpress. Either go genuine or OEM brands
@@ianpgonzaga thanks! looks like I’ll have to order from Germany i love the way you explain things on your videos very informative Keep it up thank you for sharing with us! Cheers
@@ianpgonzaga is febi ok ?
Hi mate, awesome video! I've checked my Passat R36 and:
208: -4.0kW
209: -1.0kW
and
090: -25kW (exhaust duty cycle 5.9%)
091: 18kW (intake duty cycle 47.8%)
What do you think?
Hey thanks for the watch. Looks like something to "keep an eye on" and start saving for the timing chain/guides kit but not an emergency "do your chains now" situation.
@@ianpgonzaga thanks mate! Much appreciated. Subscribed 👍
This is a great video! I have a 2007 passat 3.6 with the BLV engine and when I go to groups 208 and 209, the "intake cam offset" is -4.0, and the "exhaust cam offset" is 0, so I might need to replace the chains soon right?
In group 90 it says my adjustment is -25, and in 91 it says it is 18. When you are in the passat r36 the numbers seem similar to mine, is this good or bad? Thank you!
Thanks Riley. I would consider it soon. Otherwise do more frequent oil changes to tide you by and hopefully no rattles start making their way into your engine.
If your 3.6 group 90 and 91 are the same as mine i'd assume that is the set value. There is not too many people who have taken these readings for m 3.6 VR6 so thanks for sharing.
You will see that the other number can fluctuate. If that fluctuate too far from the -25 and 18 that's when it's bad.
@@ianpgonzaga Ok, that makes sense, should I even hear the timing chain at all when its running? I can hear it, it doesn't sound bad but I was worried. Thank you so much.
@@rileymajor2093 nah... You can't hear the timing chain at all on a healthy engine. Most common sign that most ppl freak about is the rattling on startup.
If that rattle is consistent as the engine idles then that's worry time.
@@ianpgonzaga Ok, thank you for your help!
@@ianpgonzaga Thanks for the Clarifying Video and Expert Help. I did get worried when i hear the tapping/rattle for 5-7 seconds, upon Start-up on my 09 BLV 3.6 CC VR6 FWD
Thank you for this video. My findings are
208= -3
209= -2
90= (specified 0.00 actual 0.5
91= (specified 0.00 actual 0.5
Is this bad?
Kind regards Mike
Thanks Mike. Doesn't look too bad actually but would be good to check in next oil services to see how it changes.
Hi.i don't know if this is the problem with my missfires only in cilinder 135. But
My values in my vr6 Touareg
208 -6.0kw
209 -3.0kw
090 -25kw duty cycle 5.9
091 18kw duty cycle 46.7
Hey Daniel. Yeah I would check your timing gear. That all looks really off.
Question I swap my Mk4 gti With a 3.2 from a Touareg Can I use the 2.8 maf With the 3.2?
Hehe yes you can swap the engines. You must use 3.2 MAF though. They are different sizes.
Great video! I have a Passat 3.2 FSI with 1 fault: 000023 bank 1 sensor 3 (g300) / engine speed sens (g28)
P0017 - 002- incorrect correlation.
In group 90 adjusment (speciefied) -25kw, adjusment (actual) -6kw.
I bought this car last week, and I didn't know that had this problem.
Can you help me ?
Thank you!
Hey thanks. Incorrect correlation sounds like it's not in great condition in there. Timing hardware most likely needs attention.
@@ianpgonzaga thanks for your quickly answer. I update information.
I disassemblied upper timing chain cover, found a disaster.
I had a upper timing chain guide broken, replaced it by a new one, and seted chain in correct timing. The fault persists. Does this mean chain stretch?
@@shagusgaming that's good you found some of the issue. Remember there are more guides in the lower section. You would typically inspect those too.
Is there a way to use this for 1.8t and what should the readings be?
Good question. But nope. The 1.8t has a timing belt anyway, not chains.
I have a 2001 VW Eurovan at 117,000 miles and have fault codes of:
1) 17748/P1340/004928 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation
2) 7550 - Load Calculation Cross Check
P1142 - 35-10 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
3) 16485 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P0101 - 35-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
In VCDS my blocks read:
208: -11.0
209: -9.0
90: -0.5
91: 0.0
Terrible numbers from blocks 208 & 209 for sure but ironically, I have zero chain rattle or noise. I would think that I'd be able to hear it so could it possibly be something as simple as a bad sensor or sensor(s)? I appreciate your assistance!
Hey David.
1st Looks like you need a new MAF for sure.
Then yeah I would check your sensors as that's quite easy to change. Then if the values are still out and causing issues then check the timing, chains and guides.
isn't it block 93 for the Eurovan?
Looking to buy a R32 but I heard a rattle. The owner took it to a garage but only got the next values : "intake camshaft adjustment = 0 KW" and "actual signal inlet camshaft = 5 KW". Are these values any good, or don't they relate to the timing chain stretch?
Hi Martijn. In what measuring blocks are you talking about ? 90/91?
@@ianpgonzaga Hi, it wasn't measured with VCDS but with Mega Macs 66. I'm told those values correspond with the 208/209 in VCDS but as I don't know that system, I can't tell if that's correct. And since the timing chain is a big job, I'd rather have some certainty...
@@martijnreekmans6171 sorry I'm not sure what mega Mac is either. Best to double check with VCDS or something similar to make sure...
Got a strange one.
208 - Intake Cam. Offset = -9.0KW
209 - Exhaust Cam. Offset = -9.0KW
90 - Adjustment Actual = fluctuations between -1 and 0.5KW
91 - Cam. Adjustment B1 Intake (Act.) = Fluctuation from 2.5 to 10.0 KW
Sitting listening to the car idle, the "timing chain" noise can only be heard for 2 seconds every 5 mins. Worth noting I have no exhaust after the down pipe.
Hi Sean. Thanks for watching.
This looks like it really way off! Do you have any engine performance issues?
@@ianpgonzaga Drives fine. Not had it out lately but drive it home 150mi when I bought it. Drove without fault. (Untill the exhaust snapped at the resonator lol)
@@seanrobertson3833 LOL how does the exhaust ust snap! I'd say keep an eye on it - but those values are waaaaay way out - hopefully it doesn't just die all of a sudden.
@@ianpgonzaga I noticed it showing ERROR after about 20 mins of scanning, hitting Go brought the values back. Not sure if maybe the impulse sensor is dodgy?
If I keep driving it, will it go BOOM? Or will the timing chain noise be more frequently/constant.
It has been bought as a project car. It's an A3 2004 3.2 on 92k miles. I've got the quarter panels to replace (rust) and the timing chain on my list. But trying to work out the urgency of the timing chain. I have so far got a new exhaust sitting for it as well as a new interior.
208 -1.0kw
209 0.0kw
090 0.0kw
091 0.0kw
This is on a 2007 3.2 tt am I looking at the correct measuring blocks
Yes those are the correct MB's (you can always re watch the video to double check)
@ianpgonzaga do those figures look ok or are they a problem as I didn't quite understand them
Hi. I’ve looked at a tt mk1 3.2 and ran vcds for blocks 208 and 209 and the readings were -10 and -10
The difference is 0 but is -10 ok ?
Thanks for any info.
Steve
Wow. That sounds pretty off. Ideally the values are as close to zero.
No issues with the car running??
@@ianpgonzaga
Hi. Thanks for your reply.
No the car runs perfectly but I was shocked due to the chain readings.
Debating on whether to buy it or no.
Great vids you do too. Thanks.
@@stevensheppard3138 yeah I would keep an eye on it. That's not right 😉
Hi are these figures you entered for MK5 R32 3.2 thanks
Hi. Mk4 and r36.
Don't see why mk5 would be different.
My lovely 3.6 cayenne at just 71k has suddenly thrown a wobbly, lumpy idle, no power, P0017 code, briefly flashed up P0014, just changed the camshaft sensor (no change) i just cant believe a 2 owner 71k fsh chain might be knackered 😭😭😭😭😭😭 its idling lumpy but is still silent 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Oh dear. Sure it's not a vacuum leak?
After replacing the chaines on my 3.6 vr6 i havd 208 0 and 209 -9
Is there a time limit the new chain and tensioners need to become all the way tight? I have had it running for 10 minutes and let it get up to temp but the measurment stays the same, also im running around 800 rpm
There's no time limit but just check that after the car is up to temp and idling. It might adjust.
If you start getting errors then re check timing.
@@ianpgonzaga Okay thanks for the fast reply! How long would you recommend to let it run before it needs to measure correctly
@@clickonmeppl98👌
Until the engine is up to temperature and you measure at idle.
@@ianpgonzaga Okay thanks verry much, ill check again this evening and will let it run untill my oil gets up to temp, i now only let it get the water get up to temp.
@@ianpgonzaga i have tried running it up to temp and still the same values, it is running around 640-680 rpm but i have 2 trouble codes for the engine.
P0030 and p0050 both lambda sensors before the catalitic converter. Do you have any idea if this could mess with the values? And i have replaced them with a other pair i have laying around and still the same so maby a fuse or something?
My 208 reading is 0 and 209 is -7
My 90 and 91 both reading 0
What do you think? Engine is very very quiet no rattle at all ever. Thanks
😲Hmm that's weird that 90 and 91 are both zero. No codes ? What engine is that ?
@@ianpgonzaga mk4 golf R32, 2003 car with 103,000 miles. Whisper quiet engine
@@khsmith6242 and zero engine codes ? If no codes then just monitor it I guess. Seems really strange though ...
@@ianpgonzaga no codes, so can you explain why is it strange? On the 208/209 figures showing a spread of 7 assume that indicates cam chains required?
Probs could be 1 of the solenoid issue.. you should do a oil flush and then change oil every 3k I've seen peoples numbers drop
There is another vr6 2.8 24v engine tht u shud of covered which EVRYONE misses.. dont know y thou. Its the the first vr6 24v that came out. They had 3 chains instead of 2 which the later variants came out with..
Cam chains are the same as the vw 1.8 turbo, then it has anoyher gear connected to teh cam from which the secondry chain hooks on to run the intermidiate shaft and then another chain than runs from intetmidiate to the crank sproket.
Could u make a video in regards to this engine cz there is nothing on youtube in regards to this engine.
By the way engine code is AEU 2000 to 2001.
Hi Pearl. Interesting! I'd like to cover it but it would be something I don't really know much of so I would've be able to give accurate info.
Hi thanks for your video, I've had a fault p0343 on my 3.6 r36 so started looking at it.
My 208/9 values were +1 and -3, not sure what to make of that. The timing chain was replaced less than 2yrs ago by European specialists